Very Special Episodes: JFK's Forgotten Summer w/Rob Reiner [Re-Release]

Summary

Podcast Summary: Who Killed JFK?

Very Special Episodes: JFK's Forgotten Summer w/Rob Reiner [Re-Release]

Original Air Date: December 31, 2025
Host: iHeartPodcasts
Special Guest: Rob Reiner
Featured Guests: Fred Logevall (JFK biographer), archival JFK audio

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Overview

Commemorating the 60th anniversary of John F. Kennedy’s assassination, this episode presents a lesser-known chapter of JFK’s life—his brief time as a journalist in the summer of 1945. Legendary filmmaker Rob Reiner joins hosts Dana Schwartz, Jason English, and Zarin Burnett, along with JFK biographer Fred Logevall, to explore how this “forgotten summer” shaped Kennedy’s worldview, political ambitions, and unique leadership style. Drawing on new insights and vivid recollections, the episode highlights how history's tides can hinge on the most unexpected experiences.

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Main Themes

• JFK’s Secret Journalistic Chapter: Most Americans know JFK as a wartime hero, senator, and president, but few recall his stint as an international correspondent for Hearst newspapers after WWII.
• Formative Impact: The hosts and experts trace how this period influenced Kennedy’s political mindset, deepened his understanding of global affairs, and set him on the path to becoming a statesman.
• Historical Turning Points: The episode weaves JFK’s reporting on landmark events—the founding of the United Nations, the British elections, and Germany’s postwar devastation—with personal reflection and analysis.
• Legacy and Leadership: Through interviews and reenactments, the podcast examines how even brief detours can define a leader’s character and legacy.

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Segment Breakdown & Key Insights

1. Introduction to JFK’s Journalism (03:16–08:50)

• Setting the Scene: The episode opens with JFK’s 1961 “President and the Press” speech, contextualizing his nuanced relationship with journalism and national security.
  • Notable Quote (JFK via Jason English, 03:24):
    “Some may suggest that this would be more naturally worded the President versus The Press. But those are not my sentiments tonight.”
• Rob Reiner’s Reflection: Rob, who covered JFK in his podcast and wrote about him as a teen, admits his surprise at JFK’s journalism stint.
  • Rob Reiner (08:11):
    “As far as him being a journalist, I... I didn’t really know very much about that. And I’m hearing about it essentially for the first time here.”

2. Kennedy Family Background and Early Life (10:30–13:34)

• Public Service Roots: Kennedy biographer Fred Logevall explains the family’s ethos and commitment to service.
  • Fred Logevall (10:44):
    “His father, Joe Sr. became extraordinarily wealthy... what's notable about this family is that he and his wife Rose instill in their children...this idea that they need to think beyond themselves...to give something back.”
• Wartime Heroics: Details of JFK’s PT-109 exploits and his survival swim—which became legendary—are revisited.
  • Rob Reiner (13:34):
    “These are the events that change history. He knew what war was...here was a man who really was in the midst of the horrors of war.”

3. Loss, Responsibility, and a Crossroads (15:38–17:28)

• Tragedy Strikes: Joe Kennedy Jr.’s death in a risky WWII mission shifts the dynastic focus onto Jack.
  • Fred Logevall (15:58):
    “It’s a kind of suicide mission, really. The plane will continue. Well, it explodes before they can bail.”
  • Rob Reiner (16:48):
    “You had Joe Kennedy, who always wanted the family to be considered legitimate and to be accepted in the political world. I don’t think Jack thought of himself for somebody who was going to take up that mantle.”

4. Journalism as a Stepping Stone (19:14–23:30)

• Emergence and Opportunity: After being honorably discharged, Jack is encouraged by Joe Sr. to explore journalism instead of law, bolstered by his published thesis (Why England Slept) and Hearst connections.

  • Fred Logevall (21:47):
    “Joe Kennedy convinced Hearst to back FDR for reelection in 1936. So they have these connections.”

• First Major Assignment – The UN Conference: JFK covers the historic founding of the United Nations in San Francisco.

  • Jason English (23:30):
    “Delegates representing 46 nations came to San Francisco on April 25, 1945, representing almost... 2,000 million people...”

5. Insights as a Reporter (24:51–29:19)

• Candid Observations: Archival audio and quotes from Kennedy’s reports give an insider’s view.
  • JFK (archival, 24:51):
    “There is an impression that this is the conference to end wars...well, it's not going to do that.”
  • JFK (archival, 27:54):
    “The Russians have recognized our difficult position and have taken full advantage of it. They have attempted to embarrass us and the British at every turn.”
  • Fred Logevall (28:40):
    “He’s as quick as anybody else...to see how these two players [US and USSR] were going to be the most important players...There’s a realism in his articles.”

6. Predictive Powers in Britain (32:20–36:07)

• Covering Churchill’s Surprise Defeat: JFK’s reporting on the 1945 British elections is notably prescient.
  • JFK (archival, 34:20):
    “This may come as a surprise to most Americans who feel Churchill is as indomitable at the polls as he was in the war... England is moving toward some form of socialism, if not in this election, then surely at the next.”
  • Fred Logevall (35:09):
    “Arthur Kroc later said that Kennedy’s writings were the only intimation I got from anyone that Churchill would be defeated.”
  • JFK (archival, 35:49):
    “England has been hit by some blockbusters in the last five years, but none of them ever shook her like today's election results.”

7. Europe in Ruins & Growing Political Vision (36:56–39:56)

• Diary Reflections in Germany: Kennedy’s musings capture the scale of destruction and the shifting world order postwar.
  • JFK (archival, 36:56):
    “In places like Berlin, the devastation is complete...On some streets, the stench, sweet and sickish from dead bodies, is overwhelming.”
  • JFK (archival, 38:10):
    “Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived...the stuff of which legends are made.”
  • Fred Logevall (38:50):
    “His awareness that Britain is a faded power...he perceives that division between East and West...that the United States must become the leader of the West going forward.”

8. Turning Point: From Journalist to Politician (41:42–44:22)

• A Direct Line to Politics: By late 1945, after returning from Europe, Jack chooses a political path.
  • Fred Logevall (41:42):
    “Nobody thought of this at the time, but present in Potsdam are the 33rd President of the United States, Harry Truman, the 34th... Dwight Eisenhower, and the 35th... Jack Kennedy.”
  • Rob Reiner (42:01):
    “He was the youngest president ever to be elected. I was only a teenager, but he felt like one of us...He was a hero to our generation.”
• JFK’s Own Words – The Draw of Politics: Archival dictation from JFK reveals the pull away from reporting.
  • JFK (archival, 43:43):
    “A reporter is reporting what happens. He’s not making it happen. Underline making, underline reporting...It’s reporting what happened, comma, but it isn’t participating.”

9. What If? JFK the Journalist (44:22–45:38)

• Alternate History: Speculation on whether JFK would have remained a journalist if his brother had survived.
  • Fred Logevall (44:22):
    “I think Jack Kennedy probably would have pursued, at least in the early going, a journalistic career, and I think he would have been successful at it...He becomes a kind of Walter Lippman for a later generation.”
  • Rob Reiner (45:27):
    “He had a curious mind and he had a great way of expressing himself. Would he have made a great journalist? Of course he would.”

10. Playing with History – Casting the Biopic (45:38–48:18)

• Lighthearted Movie-Casting: The hosts nominate actors for a hypothetical film based on JFK’s journalism days, with Rob Reiner cameo suggestions and spirited debate over who could play Jack, Joe Sr., Hearst, and Churchill.

• Philosophy of Leadership:

  • Zarin Burnett (48:18):
    “The secret to being a great leader is be a great storyteller...All of our great American presidents, they’re almost all great storytellers.”

11. Advice for Modern JFKs & Conclusion (48:33–48:53)

• Modern Counterparts: The panel jokes about how a 21st-century young Kennedy might need a Substack, family money, or another platform to get noticed, blending humor with pointed commentary.

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Notable Quotes

• “He was the youngest president ever to be elected...He was a hero to our generation.” — Rob Reiner (42:01)
• “A reporter is reporting what happens. He’s not making it happen...Even the good reporters...are in a secondary profession. It’s reporting what happened...but it isn’t participating.” — JFK archival (43:43)
• “I think Jack Kennedy probably would have pursued...a journalistic career, and I think he would have been successful at it...He becomes a kind of Walter Lippman for a later generation.” — Fred Logevall (44:22)
• “The secret to being a great leader is be a great storyteller.” — Zarin Burnett (48:18)

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Overall Tone & Style

Engaging, informed, and conversational. The hosts blend history, analysis, and humor, deftly making complex history accessible. Rob Reiner’s enthusiastic asides and Fred Logevall’s scholarly authority create a rich, multi-perspective narrative.

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Essential Timestamps

• 03:24 – JFK’s 1961 “President and the Press” speech analysis
• 13:34 – Rob Reiner on JFK’s wartime experience
• 23:30 – San Francisco UN Conference assignment
• 34:20 – Kennedy predicts Churchill’s defeat
• 36:56 – JFK’s Berlin diary reflections
• 43:43 – Archival JFK on journalism vs. politics
• 44:22 – Alternate history: JFK as lifelong journalist
• 48:18 – Leadership as storytelling

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Conclusion

This “Very Special Episode” uncovers a pivotal but overlooked summer in JFK’s life, revealing how journalistic observation, historical upheaval, and personal tragedy converged to forge a future president. Through archival audio, lively roundtable discussion, and expert insights, listeners come away with a richer understanding not just of JFK, but of the unpredictable steps that shape world-changing leadership.

Transcript

[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Dana Schwartz]

Guaranteed Human.

[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Dana Schwartz]

You're almost at the finish line. But first, There the last one. Enjoy a Coca Cola for a pause that refreshes. On April 27, 1961, John F. Kennedy's plane touched down at LaGuardia Airport. It was his first visit to New York since becoming President. He stepped off the aircraft and slid into a black limousine, which whisked him to his suite at the Carlisle on Madison Avenue. Hours later, a police motorcade accompanied Kennedy south to the Waldorf Astoria. Outside the hotel, more than 3,000 people jammed park Avenue to greet the new leader of the free world. It was Press Week in New York, an annual gathering of more than 1200 editors, publishers and newspaper executives. President Kennedy had come to the Waldorf that evening to address the American Newspaper Publishers Association. His appearance was especially newsworthy. One week earlier, US Backed forces had flown the white flag in Cuba. The Bay of Pigs invasion may have failed to topple the Communist government of Fidel Castro, but it did succeed in escalating the Cold War, a major foreign policy blunder just months into Kennedy's term. Dressed in white tie, Kennedy approached the lectern in the Waldorf's dazzling grand ballroom. His speech was titled the President and the Press.

[Jason English]

Some may suggest that this would be more naturally worded the President versus The Press. But those are not my sentiments tonight.

[Dana Schwartz]

Instead, Kennedy said he had a more sober topic to discuss.

[Jason English]

But I do ask every publisher, every editor and every newsman in the nation to re examine his own standards and to recognize the nature of our country's peril in time of war. The government and the press have customarily joined in an effort based largely on self discipline to prevent unauthorized disclosures to the enemy in times of clear and present danger. The courts have held that even the privileged rights of the First Amendment must yield to the public's need for national security.

[Dana Schwartz]

These were perilous times, as evidenced by the situation in Cuba. War hadn't been declared, but Kennedy wanted the press to act as if it had. He claimed America's enemies had learned about COVID preparations from simply reading the newspapers, that they'd been able to glean the the size, the strength, the location and the nature of our forces and weapons and our plans and strategy for their use. He said that in at least one instance details about a secret satellite mechanism had been published.

[Jason English]

The newspapers which printed these stories were loyal, patriotic, responsible and well meaning. Had we been engaged in open warfare, they undoubtedly would not have published such items. But in the absence of open warfare, they recognized only the tests of journalism and not the tests of national security. And my question tonight is whether additional tests should not now be adopted. That question is for you alone to answer. No public official should answer it for you. No governmental plan should impose its restraints against your will. But I would be failing in my duty to the nation in considering all of the responsibilities that we now bear and all of the means at hand to meet those responsibilities if I did not command this problem to your attention and urge its thoughtful consideration.

[Dana Schwartz]

Kennedy ended his address by affirming his respect and admiration for the fourth estate. He said he shared journalism's obligation to inform the American people, to give them the facts to spark debate. He wasn't asking those in attendance to support his administration. He understood their watchdog role. He not only accepted the accountability of newspapers, he welcomed it.

[Jason English]

And so it is to the printing press, to the recorder of man's deeds, the keeper of his conscience, the courier of his news, that we look for strength and assistance, confident that with your help, man will be what he was born to be, free and independent.

[Dana Schwartz]

The next day, Kennedy's remarks were front page headlines. The New York Times declared, President Urges Press Limit News that Helps Reds. But there was something the Times story didn't mention. Kennedy wasn't just speaking to America's journalists as their president. He was speaking as someone who, at least for three months in 1945, had been one of them. Even if you were well versed in other aspects of JFK's microscopically scrutinized life, you could be forgiven if you were less familiar with this one. That is, if you were familiar with it at all.

[Rob Reiner]

I was 16 and JFK was assassinated.

[Dana Schwartz]

That's Rob Reiner, the famous director. Spinal Tap. Rob Reiner, Princess Bride. Rob Reiner, A Few Good Men. Rob Reiner. And in the podcast space, who killed JFK? Rob Reiner. His 2023 show spent several weeks atop the Apple Top podcast charts.

[Rob Reiner]

I had written a paper in high school about the Cuban Missile Crisis, so I was focused on him as a president. I knew obviously a little bit about him as a senator. I knew about PT109, and we all knew about his heroics during the Second World War.

[Dana Schwartz]

But even Rob Reiner wasn't dialed in on this chapter of JFK's story.

[Rob Reiner]

As far as him being a journalist, I. I didn't really know very much about that. And I'm hearing about it essentially for the first time here.

[Dana Schwartz]

It was a brief and relatively under the radar period in JFK's life. At the same time, it had a lasting impact on one of the most iconic presidents in American history. Welcome to Very special episodes, an iHeart original podcast. I'm your host, Dana Schwartz, and this is JFK's forgotten summer in Journalism.

[Jason English]

Welcome back to Very Special Episodes. I'm Jason English, she is Dana Schwartz. He is Aaron Burnett. And on this podcast, we tell one great story each week, and I'm going to start here. I love a good prequel. Better Call Saul, Wicked. The Muppet Babies. Just give me the backstory.

[Dana Schwartz]

The Muppet Babies. Did you see Solo? That's the real test of whether you like a prequel.

[Zarin Burnett]

I have to say, I did see that one, and that is a real test.

[Jason English]

So on the topic of presidential jobs by osmosis, we've heard these stories over the years. Barack Obama worked at Baskin Robbins and Ronald Reagan, Joe Biden, they were lifeguards. Grover Cleveland was a hangman. I don't know if you guys knew that. He's carried out at least two executions.

[Zarin Burnett]

Did not know that.

[Dana Schwartz]

Grover Cleveland.

[Jason English]

The Grover Cleveland. Richard Nixon. Gotta get him in here. He worked at the family gas station, naturally. And LBJ owned the Muzak distribution rights. He was in the radio business with his wife, and they owned Muzak rights in the Austin area. I don't think any of those stories are gonna be worthy of Very Special Episodes.

[Dana Schwartz]

I don't know. The hangman one sounds kind of interesting.

[Zarin Burnett]

Yeah, Hangman and Muzak are both interesting, Ang.

[Jason English]

It's a little dark. I'm talking about the Muzak one. But JFK is a journalist.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, I love it because I actually started as a journalist.

[Zarin Burnett]

Oh, that's right.

[Dana Schwartz]

That was my prequel. Jason knew me when.

[Jason English]

I'm looking forward to your presidential run as well.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, I'll be the one to set things right.

[Zarin Burnett]

You already got my vote.

[Jason English]

So.

[Dana Schwartz]

For John Fitzgerald Kennedy, the seeds of service were planted at a young age.

[Fred Logevall]

It's often said that he was born into a rich family. That's not exactly true.

[Dana Schwartz]

Fred Logeval is one of Kennedy's biographers.

[Fred Logevall]

His father, Joe Sr. Became extraordinarily wealthy. Let's say the first 10 years of Jack's life is really when he makes his fortune. You know, what's notable about this family, of course, is that he and his wife Rose instill in their children, all of them really this idea that they need to think beyond themselves, they need to give something back, they need to commit themselves at least a little bit to public service. And I think that's something that Jack takes in.

[Dana Schwartz]

After graduating From Harvard in 1940, Jack had his eye on law school. His plans changed when the United States entry into World War II seemed inevitable. Jack and his older brother, Joseph Kennedy Jr. Enlisted in the U.S. naval Reserve.

[Fred Logevall]

Both brothers want to serve in the war. They both want to see combat, which is an interesting decision on their part because as you say, they could have avoided this, but they both serve and of course get into harm's way before too long. And in Jack's case, that becomes as a commander of a PT boat.

[Dana Schwartz]

PT boats were small, fast and heavily armed. Jack's was the 80 foot PT109, part of a fleet in the Pacific theater. As US forces battled the Japanese. The 26 year old lieutenant commanded his vessel through the waters of the Solomon Islands. In terms of combat assignments, it didn't get much riskier. At the same time, the mission suited Jack. He had practically grown up on the sea during summers at the Kennedy compound sailing Nantucket Sound off the coast of Hyannis Port. Still, no amount of nautical expertise could have prepared him for the danger he would face in the wee hours of August 2, 1943.

[Fred Logevall]

It was a moonless night. They're in the Becket Strait in the Solomons. PT boats are patrolling, looking for Japanese vessels. Some of the PT boats had radar. Lieutenant Kennedy's did not have radar, which really limited what he was able to perceive on this very dark night. And what happens is he does not see that a Japanese destroyer is bearing down on them.

[Dana Schwartz]

The Japanese warship slammed into Jack's boat, slicing it in half. The PT109 didn't stand a chance that might have been the end of John F. Kennedy right then and there. No Congress, no Jackie O. No White House, no Bay of Pigs, no Cuban Missile Crisis, no Lee Harvey Oswald, no JFK Airport.

[Rob Reiner]

These are the events that change history. He knew what war was. I mean obviously Eisenhower did. Did. But here was a man who really was in the midst of the horrors of war.

[Dana Schwartz]

Miraculously, Jack survived. So did most of his crew. They could see a small island in the distance. Now all they had to do was swim to safety. Jack had as good a chance of making it as any. A few years earlier he'd competed on the Harvard swim team. He just hadn't ever trained for a long distance swim through shark infested enemy waters with a wounded comrade in tow.

[Fred Logevall]

He drags this injured member of his crew for these three and a half, four hours. So he has to not just swim for himself but for his comrade. And they make it to this island and then they have to figure out what to do from there the whole time. There is the possibility of course that Japanese will spot them. Ultimately they are rescued.

[Dana Schwartz]

On August 20, a front page New York Times headline proclaimed Kennedy's son is hero in Pacific. In his book Coming of Age in the American Century, Fred Logevald describes the episode as a pivotal moment.

[Fred Logevall]

His World War II experience and especially his experience in the Pacific has a very important effect on young Jack Kennedy. I think it boosts his belief that he belongs, that he can make decisions, that he can be a leader. So it's a real shot in terms of his self confidence and his self belief. I also think it shapes his worldview, his belief that coming out of this war the United States needs to play a primary role in world affairs. It affects how he sees the world, how he sees the US role in that world. That I think in a way will stay with him till the end of his days.

[Dana Schwartz]

One year after Jack's near death experience in the Pacific, his older brother volunteered for a highly perilous operation. Joe Jr. S orders were to fly a plane packed with explosives towards France and then jump out with a parachute. He didn't make it.

[Fred Logevall]

It's a kind of suicide mission really. The plane will continue. Well it explodes before they can bail.

[Dana Schwartz]

Joe Jr. S death was almost too much to bear for his father, a former SEC chairman who'd served as the US Ambassador to the United Kingdom earlier in the war. The Boston Globe reported from the time the family received the Navy telegram the ex ambassador has kept to his room. His grief is deep. Joe Jr. Had been the golden child and heir apparent of a proud political lineage. From a young age, his father had been grooming him for greatness. Now Joe's goal of becoming America's first Catholic president had been cut tragically short.

[Rob Reiner]

You had Joe Kennedy, who always wanted the family to be considered legitimate and to be accepted in the political world. I don't think Jack thought of himself for somebody who was going to take up that mantle. I think he always thought his older brother was going to be the one.

[Dana Schwartz]

It was a devastating turn of events for the family. It also had major implications for the Kennedy clan's second oldest son, because the family's hopes and dreams didn't just die with Joe Jr. Rather, they were transferred onto Jack.

[Sophie Cunningham]

This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don't sleep on osa.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.

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[Dana Schwartz]

Following his exploits in the Pacific, Jack sought treatment for chronic back pain that had ailed him for years. He ended up having surgery, which officially put an end to his military career. On March 1, 1945, Lt. Kennedy was honorably discharged, his future laid out before him. Still Mourning the death of his brother, Jack found himself at a crossroads. He emerged from his Navy service a household name, the torchbearer of his family's political ambitions. Politics was in his blood. In addition to the roles his father had played in government. Jack's maternal grandfather had been a mayor of Boston and a US Congressman. His paternal grandfather had been a state senator. Both of his great uncles were state senators. And his father's first cousin was once the mayor of Brockton, Massachusetts. But in that spring of 1945, as the war entered its final inning, Jack had a lot to consider.

[Fred Logevall]

He could go to law school, which he has flirted with not because he has a particular interest in the law, but because it's a career step for somebody who doesn't maybe quite know what they want to do. He's interested in journalism and I think he is thinking about politics.

[Dana Schwartz]

Jack was already an accomplished writer. Senior year at Harvard he wrote a thesis exploring British appeasement in the run up to World War II. Joe Sr. Encouraged his son to publish it. To make the work commercially viable they enlisted Joe's friend Arthur Kroc, the Pulitzer Prize winning Washington correspondent for the New York Times. In his memoirs Kroc would write of Jack's thesis. It was remarkable for the fine perception of the fundamental problems of a peace loving democracy threatened with dictatorial regimes. Kroc helped Jack turn the thesis into a book called why England Slept with a foreword from Henry Luce, the founder of Time magazine. It became a bestseller and the book's thesis persuaded Kroc that Jack was suited to a career in journalism. Five years later, as Jack weighed career options, Joe Sr. Got in touch with his old pal William Randolph Hearst.

[Fred Logevall]

He had known Joe Sr. Had known Hearst from his days as a Hollywood mogul in the 1920s. Late 1920s, Joe Kennedy became a serious player in Hollywood, made a good deal of money in Hollywood, got to know Hearst at that point partly through Marion Davies. And in the 1930s Joe Kennedy convinced Hearst to back FDR for reelection in 1936. So they have these connections.

[Dana Schwartz]

Joe Sr. Helped Jack get a gig as a syndicated special correspondent for the Hearst newspapers which included the San Francisco examiner, the Chicago Herald American and the New York Journal American. The idea was that Jack would cover the unfolding post war order from a serviceman's point of view. Hearst got to splash his papers with the byline of best selling author John F. Kennedy, identified at the top of each article as a recently retired P Boat hero and son of former ambassador Joseph P. Kennedy. Jack got to test the journalistic waters while elevating his profile in a way that could prove advantageous to a future in politics. Politics, his first assignment was a banger. At the end of April 1945, Hearst sent him to san Francisco to cover the founding conference of the united nations. Jack suddenly found himself at the epicenter of international policymaking, breathing the same air as illustrious statesmen.

[Jason English]

Delegates representing 46 nations came to San Francisco on April 25, 1945, representing almost.

[Fred Logevall]

2,000 million people, more than 80% of.

[Jason English]

Humanity, all at war when the conference was begun, they came with hope born of common struggle.

[Dana Schwartz]

If you were a cub reporter like Jack Kennedy, this was the place to be. Kennedy joined 1200 accredited journalists, from established scribes like James Reston, Walter lippmann and the kennedys friend Arthur kroc to gossips like Walter winchell, Earl Wilson and hedda hopper. Describing the media spectacle, life magazine observed. Like pilgrims drawn to mecca, the nation's newspapermen FL locked to san francisco. They were all there, the wise and the witless, the sober and the silly, the pundits, pontificators and performing seals. The goal of the conference was to create a template for global diplomacy in the interest of preventing future wars. In his first dispatch on April 28, Kennedy warned readers not to get their hopes up.

[John F. Kennedy (archival audio)]

There is an impression that this is the conference to end wars and introduce peace on earth and goodwill toward nations, excluding, of course, Germany and Japan. Well, it's not going to do that.

[Dana Schwartz]

Kennedy's debut also included a man on the street interview with a decorated marine who told him, I don't know much about what's going on, but if they just fix it so that we don't have to fight anymore, they can count me in. Kennedy replied, me too, sarge. In the evenings, Kennedy swanned about San Francisco with the elite. Kroc, writing in his memoirs years later, painted some memorable scenes of the humble Hearst correspondent cutting in on a dance with the British foreign secretary's wife on his bed at the palace hotel with a highball in one hand and a telephone receiver in the other.

[John F. Kennedy (archival audio)]

Hello there. Yeah, I want to speak to the managing editor of the Chicago herald examiner. Mm, not. Not in. Well, put somebody on to take a message. Good. Will you see that the boss gets this message as soon as you can reach him? Thank you. Here's the message. Kennedy will not be filing tonight.

[Dana Schwartz]

Tempting as it may have been, Kennedy wasn't there to party. Over the course of a month, he wrote 16 columns at about 300 words apiece. Not exactly the most grueling journalistic assignment, but well worth the rate. Hearst was paying $750, which is about 13,000 today. Plus, it was exciting work. Kennedy basically had a front row seat to history, reporting on the birth of the UN as the Allies declared victory in Europe.

[Fred Logevall]

I mean, it's hard to overstate the symbolic importance of the San Francisco conference, even if the sort of basics of that world order have already been laid out at prior conferences among the Allies. There's already a sense that this is now gonna be effectively a two power world. The United States and the Soviet Union will be the key players. And the young reporter, Jack Kennedy. His stories filed from San Francisco are so fascinating.

[Dana Schwartz]

Kennedy's stories weren't exactly straight news. And his point of view wasn't just that of a serviceman, but someone who had his own ideas about world affairs. May 1.

[John F. Kennedy (archival audio)]

This conference, from a distance, may have appeared so far like an international football game. Well, that part's over. And they are scheduled tomorrow to get at the real work of the conference. This will consist of trying to solve a number of more or less technical problems. Upon how these dull problems are settled may depend our peace in the coming years.

[Dana Schwartz]

May 16th.

[John F. Kennedy (archival audio)]

The Russians have recognized our difficult position and have taken full advantage of it. They have attempted to embarrass us and the British at every turn.

[Dana Schwartz]

May 18.

[John F. Kennedy (archival audio)]

There is growing discouragement among people concerning our chances of winning any lasting peace from this war. There is talk of fighting the Russians in the next 10 or 15 years. We have indeed gone a long way since those hopeful days early in the war when we talked of union. Now, in one world, there is a fundamental distrust between Great Britain and the United States on the one hand, and Russia on the other hand.

[Dana Schwartz]

The growing distrust between Russia and the US Was a running theme of Kennedy's reportage.

[Fred Logevall]

Kennedy picks up on this. He's as quick as anybody else, I would argue, at least in terms of the reporting at the conference, to see how these two players were going to be the most important players, number one and number two, how they were destined to come into. There's a realism in his articles. These pieces stand up pretty well. If one were to go back now and read all of them, they're solid in the context of their time. I would say they're even solid in terms of what he saw, maybe at least to a degree before others did, about this new world order.

[Dana Schwartz]

The San Francisco Conference carried on until June 26, when the assembled delegates signed the historic Charter of the United Nations. By then, Kennedy was gone. Another story had Beckoned this time across the ocean. Kennedy hadn't been to Europe since 1939. He had visited Germany right before the invasion of Poland. Then he had traveled to London. On September 3, 1939, Kennedy observed Britain's declaration of war in the House of Commons, where soon to be Prime Minister Winston Churchill declared, we are fighting to save the whole world from the pestilence of Nazi tyranny and in defense of all that is most sacred to man. Nearly six years later, the Allies had won that fight and Churchill was up for re election. The conventional wisdom held that Churchill's wartime leadership would make him a shoo in, but one journalist wasn't so sure. In fact, this journalist, a fresh faced correspondent for the Hearst papers, had a hunch that the Prime Minister's days were numbered.

[Sophie Cunningham]

This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.

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[Dana Schwartz]

Fascinating.

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[Dana Schwartz]

In June 1945, Kennedy flew to London and checked into a two room suite at the Grosvenor House Hotel. It was Jack's first international assignment and he'd gotten business cards with his Hearst affiliation. John Fitzgerald Kennedy, International News Service. A letter to the US Consul General from the manager of the news service made it official. This is to certify that Mr. John F. Kennedy is on special assignment in Europe for Hearst newspapers. The British elections were scheduled for July 5th. Kennedy arrived just in time for the frenzied home stretch of the campaigns.

[Fred Logevall]

He's fascinated by electoral politics in a democratic system. Again, he's grown up experiencing this with his grandfather, Honey Fitz, a legendary Boston politician. He has followed elections, you know, as a student. Now he's seeing it up close, and I think it absolutely inclines him more. As much as he's enjoying, I think, the reporting gig to seek out political.

[Dana Schwartz]

Possibilities for himself, Churchill seemed to have the upper hand, at least if his high approval ratings were any indication. Speaking at a campaign stop where thousands of cheering supporters lined the streets, the prime minister said, this election is one of great importance because it comes at a moment when the future of our country is at stake. Around the same time Kennedy filed his latest story. The headlines that appeared with the article in various Hearst publications sounded ominous. Churchill's defeat Possible in New Tide sweeping Europe. Laborites may defeat Churchill, says Reiter. Churchill may lose election. Here's Kennedy in his own words.

[John F. Kennedy (archival audio)]

This may come as a surprise to most Americans who feel Churchill is as indomitable at the polls as he was in the war. However, Churchill is fighting a tide that is surging through Europe, washing away monarchies and conservative governments everywhere. And that that tide flows powerfully in England. England is moving towards some form of socialism, if not in this election, then surely at the next.

[Dana Schwartz]

Kennedy's article turned out to be prescient. On July 26, after all the votes were finally counted, the Labour Party beat Churchill's Conservative government in a landslide. Arthur Krock later said that Kennedy's writings were the only intimation I got from anyone that Churchill would be defeated.

[Fred Logevall]

Even in one or two of his pieces from San Francisco, he suggests that the conservatives are in some trouble, which to many people seems absolutely crazy. Churchill in trouble politically? How can that be? He's one of the great leaders of the 20th century. I think people already understood Kennedy, even before he gets to London, says that this is a possibility. What he then proceeds to do in the weeks prior to the vote is to follow the campaign, and he shows a reporter's nose for a good story.

[Dana Schwartz]

On the heels of Churchill's defeat, Kennedy.

[John F. Kennedy (archival audio)]

Wrote, england has been hit by some blockbusters in the last five years, but none of them ever shook her. Like today's election results, explanations for the crushing Tory defeat were already forthcoming and they will be pouring in for the next few weeks.

[Dana Schwartz]

It was one of his last dispatches from the United Kingdom, but Kennedy still had a few more stops on his tour as a correspondent for Hearst. From England, he traveled to Paris and then on to Germany. That's where the us, the Soviet Union and Great Britain were hashing out a plan for post war Europe at the Potsdam conference. The historical record is a bit fuzzy as to whether Kennedy actually filed any stories from this last leg of the trip. It seems like he probably didn't. He did, however, keep a diary. You can buy a reprint of it for under 10 bucks. It's called Prelude to Leadership, the European diary of John F. Kennedy. The diary reflects on the utter destruction.

[John F. Kennedy (archival audio)]

In places like Berlin, the devastation is complete. The streets are relatively clear, but there is not a single building which is not gutted. On some of the streets, the stench, sweet and sickish from dead bodies, is overwhelming. The people all have completely colorless faces, a yellow tinge with pale tan lips. They are all carrying bundles. Where are they going? No one seems to know. I wonder whether they do.

[Dana Schwartz]

In one entry, Kennedy describes a somber conversation with a young German girl.

[John F. Kennedy (archival audio)]

This girl is about 22, speaks some English and is a Roman Catholic. She said it was difficult to get to Catholic church after the Nazis came to power, though it was possible. She thought the Germans were going to win the war, but the first victories were just shining. She thought the future of Germany is melancholy.

[Dana Schwartz]

The final entry is arguably the most chilling one. Kennedy writes about his visit to Hitler's bombed out chalet in the Bavarian Alps as well as a nearby building.

[John F. Kennedy (archival audio)]

After visiting these two places, you can clearly understand how that within a few years Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived. He had boundless ambition for his country, which rendered him a menace to the peace of the world. But he had a mystery about him in the way that he lived and the manner of his death that will live and grow after him. He had in him the stuff of which legends are made for the record.

[Dana Schwartz]

Kennedyologists who have written about this entry have noted there's no indication that JFK harbored any sympathies for the Fuhrer or Nazi Germany.

[Fred Logevall]

What I take away from the diary is a sense that the world order has fundamentally shifted. And this in part again is based on seeing the destruction all around him. His awareness that Britain is a faded power that Britain is emerging drastically weakened from the war. Now he's seeing that Germany is destroyed. Coming out of the war, he understands that there's going to be a division of Germany. What's a strength in his analysis is the degree to which he perceives that this division between east and west, the United States the leader of one camp, if you will, and the Soviet Union the leader in the other. That I think is affirmed for him in these weeks in Germany and again, I repeat, because I think it matters a conviction that he has, which is that the United States must become the leader of the west going forward.

[Dana Schwartz]

An edition of the diary published in 1995 includes an introduction by Hugh Sidney, who covered Kennedy's presidency for Time. He writes, quote, kennedy shows in his diary that he has the instincts of a good journalist. The unflagging curiosity, the eyes, the ears. Others in Kennedy's orbit have described that spring and summer of 1945 as a key step in his political evolution. Close friend and speechwriter Ted Sorensen wrote in his own JFK biography, in a brief fling at journalism, he had observed the power politics at Potsdam and the San Francisco UN Conference and covered the British election. All this sharpened his interest in public affairs and public service. Two of JFK's White House aides said he considered his journalistic dalliances the thing that finally moved Jack Kennedy toward active politics. After getting a close look as a reporter at the post war Political Leaders in Action, he decided that he might be able to find more satisfaction and to perform more useful service as a politician than as a political writer. Kennedy left Europe in early August as the war was hurtling toward its catastrophic conclusion in Japan. By the end of the year, he had made the decision to run for office. In April 1946, he officially entered the race to represent his home state's 11th congressional district. And, well, the rest is history.

[Fred Logevall]

Nobody thought of this at the time, but present in potsdam are the 33rd President of the United States, Harry Truman, the 34th President of the United States, Dwight Eisenhower, and the 35th President of the United States, young Jack Kennedy.

[Rob Reiner]

He was the youngest president ever to be elected. I was only a teenager, but he felt like one of us. But here was a guy, he was 43 at the time, and we thought, wow, this is somebody that's almost in our generation, somebody who we actually can look up to and respect. And he was funny, he had a quick wit. That guy can be a president. That was really cool to us. He was a hero to our generation.

[Dana Schwartz]

One day in 19 in 1960, when Kennedy was running for president, he sat down to dictate some notes. He would do this from time to time, preparing for the memoirs he expected to write. On this particular occasion, Kennedy reflected on his trajectory from PT boat captain to candidate for America's highest office.

[Jason English]

My brother Joe was killed in Europe as a flyer in 4-19-44, and that ended our hopes for him. But I didn't even start to think about a political profession more than a year later. When the war came, I didn't know what I was going to do. And I didn't find it oppressive that I didn't know. In 44 and 45, I had been in the hospital for about a year, recovering from some injuries I received in the hospital Pacific. And I worked as a reporter covering the San Francisco conference, the British election and the Potsdam meeting, all in 1945.

[Dana Schwartz]

A few beats later, in the recording, which you can find online at the website of UVA's Miller Center, Kennedy explains why journalism didn't captivate him the way politics ultimately did.

[Jason English]

A reporter is reporting what happens. He's not making it happen. Underline making, underline reporting. Even the good reporters, the ones who are really fascinated by what happens and who find real stimulus putting their poses into the center of action, even they, in a sense, are in a secondary profession. It's reporting what happened, comma, but it isn't participating.

[Dana Schwartz]

By all accounts, JFK would have made a fine journalist. And if fate hadn't intervened, maybe that's exactly what he would have ended up being.

[Fred Logevall]

Let's suppose that Joe Jr survives. He was seen by his father and others as the one who would enter politics. So he does so, let's say, and let's say he rises to the top or near the top. I actually suggest that there are reasons why Joe Kennedy Jr. Would not have been as successful as his brother was in politics. But let's assume that he would have been. I think Jack Kennedy probably would have pursued, at least in the early going, a journalistic career, and I think he would have been successful at it. It's not impossible to imagine that he stays with that career, that he becomes a kind of Walter Lippman for a later generation. And because of his skill as an observer, because of his intelligence, because of his ability to write pretty well and pretty quickly, which is important in journalism. Very little reason to believe that he would have not been highly successful in that capacity. It's a fascinating scenario.

[Rob Reiner]

He had a curious mind and he had a great way of expressing himself. Would he have made a great journalist of course he would.

[Jason English]

So this should be a movie, this one. A little added cinematic flair because the great director Rob Reiner gave us a nice cameo here. Zarin, have you put your casting director hat on?

[Zarin Burnett]

I did. And in the spirit of Rob Reiner, I thought a lot about this because I wanted to get the casting right. He's really good at casting. So I thought, okay, I give this one up for Rob. So for casting for young jfk. The kid looks like him. So this one was easy. That kid, Finn Wolfhard from Stranger Things. I mean, he's got the floppy hair.

[Dana Schwartz]

You think he looks like jfk.

[Zarin Burnett]

Out of all the young actors I was looking at, he was the closest appearance.

[Dana Schwartz]

All right, all right.

[Zarin Burnett]

Tony Goldwyn, the guy from Law and Order and from Scandal, he looks the most like a Kennedy, but I think he's too old now to play young Jack. So I was looking for a young Jack.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know what? I'm gonna give you a crazy pitch.

[Fred Logevall]

What?

[Dana Schwartz]

Young Solo himself, Alden Ehrenreich. Whoa.

[Jason English]

That bring us back.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yes, bring him back.

[Zarin Burnett]

Good jawline pull, too. Okay, now for Joe Kennedy Sr. For the father, I thought Tim Blake Nelson, Delmar from oh, Brother, Where Art Thou? He looks like Joe Kennedy Sr. I looked up Joe Kennedy Sr. I'm like, oh, that's a done deal. Tim Blake Nelson. And then for, like, William Randolph Hearst, I thought this one. I was like, okay, once again, looked at the man difficult face because he has a kind of like, you know, like that time traveler pre iPhone face. You're like, okay, who am I going to get? Edward Norton was as close as I could get being like, boom. I think he's got the acting chops. He can do the gravitas. And then for Winston Churchill, this was a surprise. Patton Oswald in a play for an Oscar.

[Dana Schwartz]

Wow. Whoa. I love when a comedian goes serious.

[John F. Kennedy (archival audio)]

Right.

[Zarin Burnett]

I thought that could be fun because Toby Jones was the other one, the British actor, but he's already played him, so that was like, okay, that's too easy.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. British people always get mad when Americans play Winston Churchill. Because in the Crown, it was John Lithgow. John Lithgow. And they got mad, but he did a great job. So, you know, I did not see that, though.

[Zarin Burnett]

John Lithgow, that's an interesting choice. He seems, like, too tall.

[Dana Schwartz]

He was great. And so I think we can give it to another American.

[Jason English]

Okay, I like that call. And John Lithgow, quick aside. We'll be playing Buzz Aldrin in an upcoming podcast that launches. I think it's July 9th.

[Zarin Burnett]

Really?

[Jason English]

Yeah.

[Zarin Burnett]

Fighting Buzz Aldrin, my man.

[Jason English]

Your guy. Maybe we put Rob Reiner in this as kind of the narrator. He can be like the Peter Falk role from Princess Bride where that fits into the narrative, but working.

[Dana Schwartz]

He plays the newspaper man who assigns JFK his job. It's a non historical character, but just the scrappy newspaper man who's a mentor to JFK in the movie version.

[Zarin Burnett]

So that's good. Good call, good screen. I love one thing about this story is it's a perfect reminder that a great truth of leadership, the secret to being a great leader is be a great storyteller. You know what I mean? Like, think about it. All of our great American presidents, they're almost all great storytellers.

[Jason English]

So if JFK the journalist was coming up today, what would be your advice? Start a substack or just focus on social.

[Zarin Burnett]

Wow, that's a tough one, I would say.

[Dana Schwartz]

Oh, you have family money. Great. You'll be just fine.

[Jason English]

Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people. Today's episode was written by Joe Pompeo. Joe is one of our regulars. You can find out what else he's up [e-mail] this show is hosted by Dana Schwartz, Zarin Burnett and Jason English. Our producer is Josh Fisher. Editing and sound design by Jonathan Washington and Josh Fisher. Additional editing by Mary Dew. Mixing and mastering by Josh Fisher. A big thanks to our JFK voice actor Tom Antonellis. It's very hard to do reenactments in an episode that also includes archival audio of the guy you're reenacting, but I thought Tom nailed it. Great to work with him again. And of course, big thanks to Rob Reiner for agreeing to talk to us. Go see Spinal Tap 2 at the this September. Thanks to Rocco at Rob's company for helping coordinate original Music by Elise McCoy. Research and fact checking by Austin Thompson and Joe Pompeo. Show logo by Lucy Quintanilla. Our executive producer is Jason English. If you ever want to email the show, you can reach [e-mail] Very Special Episodes is a production of iHeart Podcasts.

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[Sophie Cunningham]

This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or osa, in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company at cvs. It matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it.

[Dana Schwartz]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Dana Schwartz]

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Community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location. This is an I Heart Podcast.

[Dana Schwartz]

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