Withheld Documents [BONUS]

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Who Killed JFK? – Withheld Documents [BONUS]"

Introduction

In the bonus episode titled "Withheld Documents," hosts Rob Reiner and Soledad O'Brien delve into one of the most enduring mysteries in American history: the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Celebrating the 60th anniversary of JFK's tragic death, the episode explores the depth of secrecy surrounding the event and the implications of the ongoing withholding of crucial documents. Joined by journalist Jefferson Morley and expert Michelle Reiner, the discussion unravels the layers of government secrecy, particularly focusing on the role of the CIA in concealing information that could potentially shed light on the true circumstances of JFK's assassination.

The JFK Records Act and Its Intentions

The conversation begins with an overview of the JFK Records Act of 1992, a legislative effort aimed at ensuring transparency regarding the assassination. According to Michelle Reiner, the Act mandated that all government agencies submit any records related to JFK’s assassination to the National Archives and Records Administration. These records were slated for public release 25 years later, on October 26, 2017, unless the President determined that releasing them would cause "identifiable harm" to intelligence operations.

The Withholding of Documents Post-2017

Despite the clear intentions of the JFK Records Act, more than 4,684 documents remained classified as of November 2023. Jefferson Morley raises a critical question: "For those of us who want to know the truth of who killed JFK, why, after 60 years, are documents still being withheld?" (02:00). The hosts explain that in April 2018, President Trump extended the review period for these documents until April 2021, allowing agencies like the CIA to continue withholding information. The CIA, citing the protection of intelligence sources and methods, successfully argued against the release, leading to the continued secrecy of approximately 15,000 documents, 11,000 of which are from the CIA (04:16).

The CIA’s Role and Influence in Withholding Documents

Michelle Reiner elaborates on the CIA's substantial influence in perpetuating the secrecy surrounding JFK's assassination. She states, "The CIA took that loophole in the law, and they drove a giant truckload of documents through it. So Trump gave the CIA what they wanted and said, we'll revisit this issue in four years." (04:33). When President Biden took office, his administration issued an executive order that effectively eliminated the deadlines and criteria set by the JFK Records Act. This move empowered the CIA and NSA to indefinitely classify documents, ensuring that the remaining 4,000 documents would never be released unless the agencies choose to do so (05:52).

Implications of Withheld Documents

The hosts discuss the ramifications of such prolonged secrecy. Jefferson Morley points out, "The agency in charge of the decision is now the agency that likely has the most to hide." (06:09). Michelle Reiner echoes this sentiment, highlighting how the CIA’s involvement only deepens public mistrust: "The CIA knows what they're doing. The point of this secrecy is that witnesses die and they can't talk about it, and the story becomes harder to get." (06:23). This ongoing concealment fuels conspiracy theories and hampers efforts to uncover the truth behind JFK's assassination.

Potential Evidence in the Hidden Files

Delving deeper, Michelle Reiner introduces specific documents that have surfaced in recent releases, shedding light on previously unknown investigations. For instance, she reveals that the CIA's Miami station conducted its own investigation into anti-Castro exiles as potential culprits, diverging from the official lone gunman theory proposed by the Warren Commission (07:05). This internal skepticism within the CIA suggests that alternative theories were seriously considered but never made public. Furthermore, documents related to George Joannidis, who managed Cuban student affairs and had interactions with Lee Harvey Oswald, remain highly classified, indicating possible CIA operations involving Oswald that have never been disclosed (08:40).

The Importance of Transparency and Government Accountability

Rob Reiner and Jefferson Morley emphasize the critical need for government transparency. Morley asks, "Do you think that if we're given the access to the documents that are still being withheld that we would find a smoking gun in there?" (09:33). Michelle Reiner responds confidently, asserting that the release of George Joannidis’s files would likely reveal proof of CIA involvement with Oswald, which would be a "devastating blow to the CIA" (09:40). The hosts argue that the withholding of these documents undermines public trust and challenges the very foundation of American democracy, which relies on accountability and transparency.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a poignant reflection on the significance of the JFK assassination's unresolved questions. Michelle Reiner states, "Why it matters today is, you know, can government be held accountable? It's a test of American democracy." (10:16). Without access to the remaining classified documents, the true narrative of JFK's assassination remains obscured, leaving a legacy of suspicion and unanswered questions. The hosts underscore that the enduring mystery not only symbolizes a dark chapter in American history but also serves as a litmus test for the nation's commitment to truth and accountability.

Notable Quotes

• "For those of us who want to know the truth of who killed JFK, why, after 60 years, are documents still being withheld?" — Jefferson Morley (02:00)
• "The CIA took that loophole in the law, and they drove a giant truckload of documents through it." — Michelle Reiner (04:33)
• "The agency in charge of the decision is now the agency that likely has the most to hide." — Jefferson Morley (06:09)
• "I think that the George Joannidis file would be smoking gun proof that senior CIA officials were running an operation using Lee Harvey Oswald in late 1963 for their own purposes." — Michelle Reiner (09:40)
• "Why it matters today is, can government be held accountable? It's a test of American democracy." — Michelle Reiner (10:16)

Final Thoughts

This bonus episode of "Who Killed JFK?" offers a compelling exploration of the entrenched secrecy surrounding one of America's greatest mysteries. By dissecting the legislative framework, governmental maneuvers, and the potential revelations within the withheld documents, Rob Reiner and Soledad O'Brien provide listeners with a thorough understanding of why the JFK assassination continues to captivate and frustrate the public psyche. The discussion not only revisits historical events but also prompts a critical examination of contemporary issues related to government transparency and public trust.

Transcript

[Rob Reiner]

To have a murder as gruesome as.

[Jefferson Morley]

Jay Beasley's doesn't happen very often down.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death, her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Rob Reiner]

I am confident that Julie Beverly is guilty.

[Jefferson Morley]

They've never found a weapon, Never made sense.

[Danny Trejo]

Still doesn't make sense.

[Soledad O'Brien]

She found out she was pregnant in jail.

[Rob Reiner]

The person who did it is still out there.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or where you get your podcasts.

[Danny Trejo]

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me Danny Trehov and Step into the Flames of Fright, an anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to nocturnum on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jon Stewart]

Catch Jon Stewart back in action on the Daily show and in your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. From his hilarious satirical takes on today's politics and entertainment to the unique voices of correspondents and contributors, it's your perfect companion to stay on top of what's happening now. Plus, you'll get special content just for podcast listeners like in depth interviews and a roundup of the week's top headlines. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rob Reiner]

4684. That's the number of documents related to the JFK assassination that as of November 2023, still remain fully kept from the public eye.

[Jefferson Morley]

For those of us who want to know the truth of who killed JFK, why, after 60 years, are documents still being withheld?

[Rob Reiner]

In December of 2022, the CIA released a statement that the withheld information, quote, consists of intelligence sources and methods, the release of which would currently do identifiable harm to intelligence operations.

[Jefferson Morley]

The common refrain of protecting sources and methods gets harder and harder to accept the further we get from 1963, with virtually all the people that were involved no longer with us. Many of the documents that are being withheld are from the CIA, which only increases suspicions about their role. To discuss the JFK files, what might be in them, why they're still being hidden, and what we've learned from recent files that have been released, we asked Jefferson Morley to join us again. If we want to understand the story of these withheld documents, where do we begin?

[Michelle Reiner]

Okay, so the JFK Records act called for the disclosure of all government related records and as a result of it, we Got a huge body of records, mostly in the 1990s, and a steady stream ever since. The law had a 25 year sunset provision in it which said after 25 years, all the records should be made public.

[Rob Reiner]

To make the timeline clear, the JFK Records act that passed in 1992 required that all government agencies send any records concerning the JFK assassination to the National Archives and Records Administration. These records would then be held by the national archives for 25 years before being released to the public on October 26, 2017. That is, unless the President sees a, quote, identifiable harm coming from their release. Between 2017 and 2018, more than 34,000 records were released by the National Archives. But on April 26, 2018, then President Trump decided that government agencies could have until April 26, 2021, to review the remaining documents to determine whether withholding those documents from the public is still necessary.

[Michelle Reiner]

The CIA went to President Trump and said, we couldn't possibly release all of these records. And Trump's CIA director, Mike Pompeo, agreed with the agency. And the government in 2017 requested the withholding of about 15,000 documents, 11,000 of which were CIA records. Well, when that happened, the press started paying attention, and the press attitude towards the JFK stories started to change a little bit because this level of secrecy after 25 years just struck people as kind of crazy. And the people who had been in charge of the JFK records said, you know, when we started this process, we thought in 2017 there might be a hundred records. We never expected 15,000. So the CIA took that loophole in the law, and they drove a giant truckload of documents through it. So Trump gave the CIA what they wanted and said, we'll revisit this issue in four years. So in October 2021, now Biden's president, and the same question comes to Biden. What Biden did was he issued an executive order which effectively negated all of the deadlines and all of the criteria of the JFK Records Act. From now on, the CIA and the NSA will decide when JFK documents can be made public. So those 4,000 documents are effectively classified indefinitely. There is now no provision in the law for them to ever be made public except when the CIA and the NSA decide they want to.

[Jefferson Morley]

So the agency in charge of the decision is now the agency that likely has the most to hide. It's Dulles on the Warren Commission and George Joannidis on the House Select Committee all over again. You can't let a suspect have control of potential evidence.

[Rob Reiner]

Is it safe to Say, we're never going to see those files.

[Michelle Reiner]

There is no schedule for their release.

[Jefferson Morley]

In the past, whenever a batch of documents would get released, researchers would scramble to make sense of it.

[Michelle Reiner]

I'm thinking of this example of a document that came out in December. This guy writes a detailed memo. His name didn't come out until 2022, you know, and when we get the name, you go and look, the Guy died in 2017. If we'd had that document in 2017, that would have been a very important interview. The CIA knows what they're doing. The point of this secrecy is that witnesses die and they can't talk about it, and the story becomes harder to get.

[Jefferson Morley]

It's so frustrating. I mean, it's the greatest murder mystery in the history of this country. And with so much disinformation amplified by the Internet, it's becoming almost impossible to get the truth out.

[Rob Reiner]

What's come out in recent releases and what else might still be in there.

[Michelle Reiner]

Another document that came into view last a year ago was a story that we had never known before, which was the CIA station in Miami. At a time when the White House, the FBI, the Dallas police and the Secret Service were saying one man alone did it. The CIA station in Miami rejected that idea and began to investigate anti Castro exiles for a possible role in Kennedy's assassination. The people who hated him the most. So the people who knew the Cuban exiles the best did not believe the lone gunman theory, not for a second. They investigated the alternative hypothesis that Kennedy had been killed by his enemies who were trying to lay the blame on Cuba. We never knew about that investigation before, and the results of that investigation were never shared with the Warren Commission and have never been made public.

[Rob Reiner]

This is another one of those moments where you think, how is this possible? People within the CIA were so suspicious of the Cuban exiles that they conducted their own investigation and their results remain hidden.

[Jefferson Morley]

The fact that the CIA did their own investigation into the assassination and wanted to hide it from us is a perfect example of why there's been such a loss of trust in our government.

[Rob Reiner]

Do we know anything about what might be in that report from the Miami CIA office?

[Michelle Reiner]

Their premise was that it was not a lone gunman and they never released the results. They have never released the results of that investigation to this day.

[Rob Reiner]

What else should we know about these records?

[Michelle Reiner]

I talked before about the CIA was reading Oswald's mail, the story about Reuben Efron. We knew that they were reading Oswald's mail. We didn't realize how high that went up in the CIA because of who Ephron was. The other example are the files of George Joannidis, the man who ran the Cuban students, who had encounters with Oswald and who stonewalled the congressional investigators.

[Jefferson Morley]

Joannidis died in 1990.

[Michelle Reiner]

His records from 1963, when he handled the Cubans, in 1978 when he stonewalled Congress. Those records are classified at the very highest level, Rob. Whatever Joannidis was doing in 1963, the CIA is determined to keep it secret forever. And so right now we have no prospect for ever seeing those types of documents and answering those types of questions.

[Jefferson Morley]

Do you think that if we're given the access to the documents that are still being withheld that we would find a smoking gun in there?

[Michelle Reiner]

I think that the Joe Anides file would be smoking gun proof that senior CIA officials were running an operation using Lee Harvey oswald in late 1963 for their own purposes. Which they are still keeping secret.

[Danny Trejo]

Right.

[Michelle Reiner]

If the Joannidi's documents are released and it's shown that senior CIA officials were running an operation using Oswald and they've been hiding it for 60 years, that'd be a devastating blow to the CIA.

[Jefferson Morley]

Which is why the CIA will likely never release them. Why do you think this is still important today?

[Michelle Reiner]

Why it matters today is, you know, can government be held accountable? It's a test of American democracy.

[Jefferson Morley]

And for us to pass that test, we have to trust our institutions.

[Michelle Reiner]

The JFK story is the perfect test of that. To have a murder as gruesome as.

[Rob Reiner]

Jake Beasley's doesn't happen very often down.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death. Her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Rob Reiner]

I am confident that Julie Beverly is guilty.

[Jefferson Morley]

This case, the more I learned about.

[Michelle Reiner]

It, the more or I'm scratching my.

[Jefferson Morley]

Head, something's not right.

[Soledad O'Brien]

I'm Lauren Bright. Pacheco Murder on Songbird Road dives into the conviction of a mother of four who remains behind bars and the investigation that put her there.

[Michelle Reiner]

I have not seen this level of corruption anywhere. It's sickening.

[Jefferson Morley]

If you step sleep that many times, you'd have blood splatter. Where's the change of clothes?

[Soledad O'Brien]

She found out she was pregnant in jail.

[Rob Reiner]

She wasn't treated like she was an.

[Michelle Reiner]

Innocent human being at all, which is just horrific.

[Rob Reiner]

Nobody has gotten justice yet. And that's what I wish people would understand.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition Podcast the Daily Show Podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danny Trejo]

Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnum Tales from the Shadows presented by I Heart and Sonoro. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone chilling brushes with supernatural creatures, Take a drill and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturne Tale from the Shadows as part of Michael Tura Podcast Network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Rob Reiner]

Who Killed JFK? Is hosted by Rob Reiner and me, Soledad O'Brien and our executive producers are Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner, Matt George, Jason English, David Hoffman and me, Soledad O'Brien. Our writer is David Hoffman with research by Dick Russell. Our story editors are Rob Reiner and Julie Pinero. Our Senior producer is Julie Pinero. Our producers are Tristan Nash, Dick Russell, Michelle Goldfine and Amari Lee. Our editors are Tristan Nash, Julie Pinero and Marcus Dilaudo. Our Project manager is Carol Klein. Our Associate producer is Emilse Quiros. Mixing, mastering and sound design by Ben Lahoullier. Research and fact checking by Girl Friday and Emilse Quiros. Business affairs by Hernan Nadea and Jonathan Furman. Our consulting producer is Rosanne Gallaghini. Recorded in part at CDM Studio and 4th Street Recording Studio. Show Logo by Lucy Quintanilla Production assistance by Rocco Del Prior and Grace Barron. Special thanks to Joe Honig, Rose Arce and Dan Storper. If you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Who Killed JFK is a production of Soledad O'Brien Productions and I Heart Podcasts. To have a murder as gruesome as.

[Michelle Reiner]

Jade Beasley's doesn't happen very often down.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death, her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Rob Reiner]

I am confident that Julie Beverly is guilty.

[Jefferson Morley]

They've never found a weapon, Never made sense.

[Danny Trejo]

Still doesn't make sense.

[Soledad O'Brien]

She found out she was pregnant in jail.

[Rob Reiner]

The person who did it is still out there.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danny Trejo]

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join Danny Trej and step into the flames of Fright, an anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to nocturnum on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors, and with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or or wherever you get your podcasts.