Loose Ends and DNA

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Loose Ends and DNA"

Who Killed Roxanne? — Episode 5
Host: Charles Dowdy
Date: March 25, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Who Killed Roxanne? continues the exploration of unanswered questions surrounding the 1982 murder of Covington teenager Roxanne Sharp. Aptly titled “Loose Ends and DNA,” the episode examines lingering mysteries in the case and investigates both the potential witnesses and the forensic evidence — particularly the role of DNA — that might still hold a key to finally identifying Roxanne’s killer(s). Host Charles Dowdy is joined extensively by Investigator Stephen Montgomery and DNA expert Dr. Mary White.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Revisiting Old Theories and Assumptions

• Charles reflects on persistent misconceptions about the case, such as the theory that serial killer Henry Lee Lucas was responsible.
• Importance of community involvement to generate new leads: “We are trying to get as many people involved in Roxanne’s story as we can, with the hope that at some point we hit the right person who might know something that can help solve Roxanne’s crime.” — Charles [01:18]

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2. Was Roxanne Killed by Someone She Knew?

FBI Profile and Crime Scene Analysis

• The FBI profile suggests at least two people were involved and that Roxanne likely knew her assailants:
  • “There are manifestations of more than one type of personality in this crime scene. Factors indicate that at least two individuals acting in concert were responsible...” — Mary White quoting FBI profile [03:56]
• Stephen Montgomery agrees, emphasizing personal connections:
  • “I believe Roxanne knew her assailants... she was in an area that she routinely hung out in with people that she was familiar with. And I think drugs and alcohol intermingled with whatever caused this to go bad.” — Stephen Montgomery [04:48]

The Ozone Gang and Key Community Members

• Charles and Stephen discuss the “Ozone Gang” — a group of local toughs and frequent lawbreakers.
• The various fates of key personalities are outlined (e.g., death, suicide, imprisonment).
• Many possible witnesses (“elders” of the Ozone) remain uncooperative or have taken their knowledge to the grave.
  • “The older people remained, and I consider them the key witnesses because they saw and heard everything that went on in that area, yet they chose not to talk about it. And even though most of them are dead, there are a few that are still alive, yet they remain tight lipped to this day.” — Stephen Montgomery [09:17]

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3. Clearing Up Common Suspicions

Roxanne’s Social Circle

• Tommy Watson (Roxanne’s child’s father) was incarcerated at her time of death and died young from substance abuse.
• Older men who sometimes helped/used Roxanne were investigated and cleared.
  • “Those two old men played a part in her life for a short amount of time... but they were investigated and they were cleared of any wrongdoing.” — Stephen Montgomery [13:30]

Bar Sightings and False Leads

• A potential lead involving Roxanne leaving a local bar with two men was investigated but ultimately found to have happened the weekend prior to her disappearance — the men in question were cleared. [10:44–12:00]

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4. The Freddie Dash “Murder”

• One of Roxanne’s last conversations with her mother involved the mysterious death of Freddie Dash, which she claimed was a murder, not an overdose.
• This unresolved claim adds another layer to the complex web of suspicion.
  • “She made a comment to her mom that she had information that his death was not an overdose, it was a murder. And she didn’t elaborate on it anymore.” — Stephen Montgomery [14:00]

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5. The Robert Willie Connection

• Investigators looked into Robert Willie (executed for the Faith Hathaway case) and his associations (e.g., using Roxanne's brother’s truck for other crimes).
• While there were indirect links and overlap in social circles, no direct evidence tied Willie or associates to Roxanne’s murder.
  • “Although Robert Willey didn’t run in the same circle as Roxanne Sharp through her connection with Glenn Loper... from what I’m told, he liked Roxanne. We didn’t find anything to prove that.” — Stephen Montgomery [20:34]

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6. Forensic Evidence and The DNA Question

Condition of Evidence

• The perpetrators were unsophisticated, leaving forensic evidence (skin, semen) at the scene.
• Much was potentially lost or degraded due to weather and time, and even more was possibly destroyed during Hurricane Katrina:
  • “Some of the evidence taken from the scene of Roxanne’s murder was in a freezer. The evidence was lost when Hurricane Katrina roared through.” — Charles [31:45]

Expert Explanation with Dr. Mary White

DNA 101 and Challenges over Time:

• Dr. White explains basics (A, C, G, T; mitochondrial vs. nuclear DNA).
• Preservation quality is key; DNA can be extracted from old dry samples, but it depends heavily on storage conditions.
  • “If you had some evidence that was dried... that might last a little bit longer.” — Mary White [24:58]
• Skin under fingernails could be a viable sample if properly preserved.
• Mitochondrial DNA is easier to extract from old/degraded samples but less conclusive, as the same sequence can be shared across families.
• Nuclear DNA is much more definitive but harder to obtain from degraded samples.
  • “If you had a suspect and you can get a sample of DNA from that suspect... you could absolutely connect it.” — Mary White [31:15]

DNA as an Investigative Tool

• Mitochondrial DNA may help rule out suspects or narrow down families, even if it can’t absolutely identify an individual.
• Current status: active DNA investigation ongoing, but information tightly held.

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7. The Ozone’s Silence — Cultural Barriers to Truth

• The "loose ends" theme underscores the continuing silence from key Ozone community members — both living and deceased.
  • “It’s mind boggling.” — Stephen Montgomery [32:36]
• Stephen Montgomery shares his evidence-based approach:
  • “If someone would have come in from the outside and killed Roxanne Sharp, this entire ozone community would be out looking for him. But by the fact that they closed the doors and windows and pulled the blinds and acted like it never happened, it tells me that I’m in the right place.” — Stephen Montgomery [33:50]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the challenge of solving cold cases:

  • “Maybe this episode is called loose ends. It could be called wit’s end, because that’s where I am... Still, there are some things to clear up or circle back...” — Charles [10:11]

• On Roxanne’s vulnerability:

  • “When people ask me to describe who Roxanne Sharp was, I call her a survivor that didn’t survive because she was resourceful... she had people that looked after her and would take care of her, but she never stayed in one place very long.” — Stephen Montgomery [12:25]

• On the hope for DNA:

  • “Maybe the DNA could rule out suspects. Maybe it could get us in the ballpark of the guilty parties. Again, this is yet another example of Roxanne’s killers catching a break and Roxanne’s murder remaining unsolved.” — Charles [30:48]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment Topic | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|-----------| | Introduction & Call for New Leads | [01:18] | | FBI Profile – Multiple Assailants | [03:56] | | Stephen Montgomery on Roxanne & Ozone Gang | [04:48] | | Fate of Gang Members / Key Witnesses | [08:03] | | Clearing Old Suspects (Tommy Watson, Old Men) | [07:27], [13:30] | | False Bar Lead Investigation | [10:44] | | Freddie Dash Overdose or Murder | [14:00] | | Robert Willie and the Truck | [15:12] | | Expert DNA Discussion with Dr. Mary White | [21:56] | | DNA for Dummies & Evidence Preservation | [22:59], [24:41], [25:53] | | Limitations of Mitochondrial vs. Nuclear DNA | [28:07], [29:55] | | Community Silence in the Ozone | [32:36] | | Montgomery’s Evidence-Based View | [33:50] |

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Tone & Noteworthy Moments

• The episode is somber, persistent, and determined, reflecting both frustration and cautious hope.
• Investigator Montgomery’s statements are methodical and factual, but underlaid with the frustration of years of silence and stalled leads.
• The DNA explainer with Dr. White is clear, friendly, and designed for laypeople.
• The host frequently returns to the emotional weight of the case and his desire for justice.

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Summary Takeaways

• Despite decades passing, many "loose ends" remain, particularly the silence of surviving witnesses from Roxanne’s circle and the Ozone community.
• Extensive police inquiry and forensic evidence have yet to yield a breakthrough, but investigators are banking on advances in DNA technology as a possible route forward.
• The case is emblematic not just of a tragic crime, but of the complex, tangled social webs and cultural silences that can keep the truth hidden for generations.

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For anyone with information, listeners are encouraged to contact Louisiana State Police at [phone].

Transcript

[Charles]

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[Mary White]

your social media feed delivers plenty of advice, but it doesn't know you. It doesn't ask questions. It doesn't give physical exams or order tests. Doctors do. At the American Medical association, we believe the best care starts with a real conversation with someone who understands the science and your unique health. So stay curious, ask questions. But when it's time to make decisions, make them with a doctor. Learn [e-mail] that's amahealthvshipe.org.

[Charles]

Hey, this is Charles with North Shore Media Group. It's hard to believe, but we're already on episode five of our true crime podcast, who Killed Roxanne? This episode is entitled Loose Ends and DNA. We'll get to the DNA. Let's start with Loose Ends and there are plenty of them if you haven't already listened to the other episodes. Stop right now and back up again. Thanks to everyone who has liked and shared and commented on the podcast. More than anything else, we are trying to get as many people involved in Roxanne's story as we can, with the hope that at some point we hit the right person who might know something that can help solve Roxanne's crime. And that person might not even know how valuable their information could be. Just last week we spoke to someone who for all these years thought the crime had been solved. She thought, with good reason, that Henry Lee Lucas did it. So please keep working, keep spreading the word, and thank you. Now, obviously I can't really assess where you are with the story at this point, but I can assess my own thoughts, and they're definitely going in a specific direction. I've had some time to reflect on some of the assumptions I made in last week's episode and what we learned from that episode, I keep coming back to where Roxanne entered the woods for the final time, and I reflect on the fact that we don't even know for sure if the crime was committed in the daylight or at night. But based on what I saw at the crime scene, I'm pretty certain the crime was committed at night. Her assailants were ripping her clothes off within full view of that street. I just don't think they do that in the daytime. Even though the worst part of this awful crime occurred further into the woods, they began assaulting her in full view of anyone who could have been on that street. No, I think this crime occurred under the COVID of darkness, possibly late at night or early in the morning. I understand that the FBI profile our narrator read from last episode is not the be all, end all and can be as wrong as it is right. But my mind was already headed in some of the same directions. After putting together the last episode, I wanted to ask Louisiana State Police Investigator Stephen Montgomery a few simple questions. Here are some clips from the FBI profile read by our narrator that caught my attention and I hope yours as well, and his responses to those ideas.

[Mary White]

There are manifestations of more than one type of personality in this crime scene. Factors indicate that at least two individuals acting in concert were responsible for Sharp's death and that others may have known of the events immediately preceding Sharp's death.

[Stephen Montgomery]

Understand that the profile report done by the FBI is an opinion, but it's an opinion given by experts in their field. And they're looking at a variety of factors, including the pictures of the crime scene, to make that determination. And I wholeheartedly agree with them that there's more than one person, there's two or maybe more people at the scene at the time that she was killed. The evidence tells us that this crime

[Mary White]

scene manifests two different personalities, both of whom knew and were known to the victim.

[Stephen Montgomery]

I believe Roxanne knew her assailants. I don't think this was done by a stranger. I certainly don't think that she was picked up hitchhiking by Henry Lucas and brought back to Covington. I think that she was in an area that she routinely hung out in with people that she was familiar with. And I think drugs and alcohol intermingled with whatever caused this to go bad. And I think there are more people out there that know that that story is true and they know who was there, and that's who I need to talk to.

[Charles]

Another theory that's become rooted in my brain. There were at least two attackers, maybe more it makes sense. After all this time, I don't think one of the assailants is going to turn and confess. For all we know, the assailants could already be dead. But I do think and hope that someone saw Roxanne with her assailants that night. That's the individual we're looking for who can come forward and tell us where they saw Roxanne, when they saw Roxanne, and who Roxanne was with. At this point, the that might be the best information we can expect to get.

[Stephen Montgomery]

The following is a production of North Shore Media Group. Any individuals mentioned in this podcast are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. This case remains an active, ongoing investigation and all discussions are based on publicly available information, investigative updates and legal proceedings where applicable. The goal is to seek justice, provide awareness and encourage the public to come forward with any relevant information. This podcast does not make any allegations of guilt against the individuals discussed and is intended for informational purposes only.

[Charles]

Following on that same line of thought, I mean if Roxanne knew her assailants, and I think she did, then you would have to look at some of the frequent lawbreakers she sometimes ran around with. What I loosely called the Ozone Gang. And where was the father of Roxanne's child at the time of her death? Was he a suspect? What about the other big names in the OZONE about this time? What happened to them? These are just some of the loose ends I want to explore.

[Stephen Montgomery]

At the time of Roxanne's death, Tommy Watson, the father of her child, was locked up in prison and he was never considered a suspect in this. I know through interviewing friends and family members of his that he took her death extremely hard, never recovered from it, and he ultimately died at a fairly young age. Drug and alcohol abuse.

[Charles]

So the father of her child was in prison when she died and he has died since. What about the rest of the so called Ozone Gang? What happened to them?

[Stephen Montgomery]

By the time that I really dove deep into this case in 2017, a lot of the heavy hitters from that area were gone or were in prison and the ozone had somewhat quieted down. And probably if you didn't know that area or lived there during that time, most people have no idea what really went on. But Robert Willie of course died in the electric chair. Joe Vaccaro had since died in prison. Tommy Holden, who was involved with them when they kidnapped Debbie Cuevas, he took his own life. Perry Taylor, whose parents owned the Leroad Quickstop, he was involved with Robert Willie. They Met Dennis Hemby at the tavern bar that night and robbed him and ultimately drowned him in the river. He went off to prison and has been in and out all of his life. Tommy Watson, the father of Roxanne's child, he had died. Glenn Loper, who was a childhood friend of hers, hung around there. He died very young from an overdose. Carlos Cooper, who was another member of that gang, he had been sentenced to prison for life on a rape. And some of the other people actually left the area and went on to be productive members of society. I mean, they didn't get in any more trouble once they got out of that area. But the older people remained, and I consider them the key witnesses because they saw and heard everything that went on in that area, yet they chose not to talk about it. And even though most of them are dead, there are a few that are still alive, yet they remain tight lipped to this day. And some people have taken this to their grave.

[Charles]

Maybe this episode is called loose ends. It could be called wit's end, because that's where I am, Trying to understand why this happened and why we can't find out more about Roxanne's last days alive. Still, there are some things to clear up or circle back and answer from my storytelling so far. Let's address a few more of them. Despite my complaint, a second ago, someone did come forward with information about Roxanne's whereabouts prior to her death at Covington's most notorious bar.

[Stephen Montgomery]

I know we talked about the tavern and bar in downtown Covington that all roads seem to lead back to when something bad happens. And within a day or two of her body being found, somebody came forward and said that they had seen her at that bar within the last week or so and that she left around midnight with two guys. So they immediately started looking into that and tracked down the two guys who had been in the bar. They. They didn't necessarily know who she was, but they said, yeah, look, she needed a ride home. We loaded her up, we brought her home, we dropped her off. They were able to tell the investigators where they brought her, what the house looked like, and they dropped her off at her house, at her mom's house in the Lake Ramsey area. And ultimately the police interviewed several witnesses from the bar and concluded that this happened the weekend before she went missing. And so that what seemed like a good lead to start fizzled out pretty quick and those guys were cleared.

[Charles]

Stephan Montgomery had previously told us about some older men who helped Roxanne out at times. These were men who Helped her and took advantage of her. Sorry if I don't put them on a pedestal or give them a plaque as Covington's finest citizens. A young girl killed. Could one or both of them have had something to do with it? Had she threatened to talk? Would Roxanne try to blackmail them?

[Stephen Montgomery]

When people ask me to describe who Roxanne Sharp was, I call her a survivor that didn't survive because she was resourceful. And I don't know what her home life was like and why she really chose not to stay. But she was a wanderer. She had people that looked after her and would take care of her, but she never stayed in one place very long. But she stayed within that community. And she had two men who were much older than her that did that for her. They gave her rides, bought her food. One of them paid her tuition to go to school and really wanted to see her succeed. And the other one gave her drugs. But all of that came with a price. And when you live on the streets, that's the way it is for many people.

[Charles]

Okay, so what about these guys? Were they investigated? Were they cleared? They were.

[Stephen Montgomery]

Those two old men played a part in her life for a short amount of time and they've long since been deceased, but they were investigated and they were cleared of any wrongdoing. Found not to have any role in her death. Early on.

[Charles]

Another loose end, and this is a big one, has to do with the conversation Roxanne had with her mother right before she disappeared. It had to do with an overdose of someone she knew.

[Stephen Montgomery]

One of the last conversations Roxanne had with her mother before she left home was she was really troubled about a recent death of a guy named Freddie Dash. And Freddy was a local guy who hung around with that crew. They were all involved in, you know, drugs back then, but he overdosed and died. And she was deeply troubled by that. And she made a comment to her mom that she had information that his death was not an overdose, it was a murder. And she didn't elaborate on it anymore. And we may never know what information that she had, but it just adds one more layer onto an already complicated investigation where everybody involved in this is suspect.

[Charles]

Alright, so not exactly clearing up a loose end there and probably never will. And here is a doozy of a loose end. And it requires going all the way back to Robert Willey and his connection to Roxanne Sharp.

[Stephen Montgomery]

So the question is, what's the connection between Robert, Willie and Roxanne Sharp? And as you start looking into the details of the Case you find that there's several. Several directions that you go in to tie these people together. And one of them is in between the time that Robert Willey and Joe Vaccaro killed Faith Hathaway and kidnapped Debbie Cuevas and Mark Brewster. It was about a week time. They borrowed a truck from Roxanne's brother, and they used that truck on the night that they kidnapped Debbie Cuevas and Mark Brewster. They were in the truck when they drove to Madisonville. They pulled up behind them, got out with guns, basically went up to Mark Brewster's car, which was a 78 Thunderbird, and they got in, jumped in the car with them, held him at gunpoint, and took off and left the truck in Madisonville parked on the lakefront. And once they came back and things kind of started unraveling, Joe Vacara's grandmother reached out to Donald Sharp and said, hey, his mama got a phone call. He's trying to get some money. They're trying to get out of town. And so people started kind of figuring out that, hey, all these incidents are tied together and what happened. And at that point, Debbie Cuevas had reported this to the police, and she told them that the. Joe Vacara had told them that the truck was at Fairview State park, which is just a stone's throw away from where they were kidnapped. But they had moved the truck, and they were in Fairview State park, and they were making some phone calls to family members trying to get money. They were trying to get out of town. And ultimately, Robert, Willie's mama did get some money and got them out of town. So that's the. That's the connection between the two, where these two stories on that level. But also, Roxanne was very good friends with Joe Vaccaro's half brother, and he lived there in the ozone. And they were around the same age. They were a little younger than the rest of this crowd. And it was a guy by the name of Glenn Loper. He's deceased now, but they were very good friends. And so all of these people went in and out of the ozone because their family was there. They had some type of family member that lived there, and they all knew each other.

[Charles]

When he turns Cuevas loose and then they're asking for money, how quick a timetable was that? They're trying to get out of town

[Stephen Montgomery]

basically the next day. Yeah, or as they really. I don't even think it was the next day. I think as they turned her loose, they start scrambling and they're figuring out what their next Move is Donald Sharp.

[Charles]

And some conversations I had with him indicated that the only person that wanted to let her loose was Robert Willie. That there were others that were like, you can't do that. Does that in your mind speak to his. I guess, place among some of these other guys? I mean, the fact that. I mean, because it was going to affect Vaccaro at the same time.

[Stephen Montgomery]

Well, it depends on if you believe Robert Willie or not. At this point, he's trying to do some damage control. If you listen to Debbie Cuevas, who is much more credible witness than Robert Willie, she will tell you that Tommy Holden would not let them kill her. They took her to Frickey's Cave. They took her to the same location where they had killed Faith Hathaway, and they ended up not killing her. They raped her there, but they didn't kill her. They actually brought her several places, but that was one that they went to. Now, you know, the conversations that happened in front of her may have been different conversations that they ultimately had, but in her official statement, she said that it was Tommy Holden who actually told them no, or at least at his house.

[Charles]

You and I have spoken about this before, but not in front of a microphone. Was there any thought at that time that when you. When you saw that connection with the truck, wouldn't it have been natural for investigators at that time to say maybe there was. Was there possibly a connection between Robert Willey and the death of Roxanne Sharp?

[Stephen Montgomery]

Well, I think because of the relationships between these families and members, it wasn't uncommon for someone to borrow a truck, because in going back and reading some of the statements, you know, Roxanne's brother was trying to get his truck back. He didn't know where his truck was. He wasn't involved in it. And from that, I think maybe they just assumed that those associations existed, and it wasn't, you know, wasn't a lot to it.

[Charles]

So in your mind, is there a connection between using the truck, those particular people using that truck, and the death of Roxanne?

[Stephen Montgomery]

So in looking back through the case file, there was some information or some theories that Robert Willey may have orchestrated a hit from jail, contributed to the death of Roxanne because the truck that they used was her brother's, and, you know, because they're now caught up in jail, maybe as a retaliation. I've looked at that extensively, and I've looked at the relationships, and I've done interviews with people that sort of dispel that. Although Robert Willey didn't run in the same circle as Roxanne Sharp through her connection with Glenn Loper. From what I'm told, he liked Roxanne. We didn't find anything to prove that.

[Charles]

One thing I know for certain about the crime scene is that it was a little bit of a mess for the criminals. They left forensic evidence everywhere. The FBI called them unsophisticated when it came to covering up their crime. That's dead on. Except the body sat out there for a few days. Except that it rained. Except that the public has generally been unwilling to provide information about the crime. That's what has allowed them to get away with it so far. But I also know what might reel them back in. It could be their DNA.

[Mary White]

So my name is Mary White. I'm a professor in biological sciences at Southeastern. I got most of my education at the University of Texas at Austin. Both my Bachelor's and my PhD there. I did some postdocs in mostly DNA based work in Southern California. And then I moved here in 1991, and I've been here since 1991.

[Charles]

Stephen Montgomery and I have not gone too far down the DNA rabbit hole. I do have an opportunity to talk with the St. Tammany Coroner's office during the next week. Stephan won't tell me much except that they are working on something for him involving this case. So let's be realistic. There's not going to be much they'll be able to tell me about it, but I'm looking forward to trying. In anticipation of that, I enlisted the help of a scientist at Southeastern Louisiana University to help me understand what I should be asking about. She had her work cut out for her. I was good at English and I was good at history. Not so much science.

[Mary White]

Yeah, I loved English, too, and math.

[Charles]

So DNA for Dummies for a second. If you were just. If I was a student, very low level class on the first day and you were explaining DNA, what would you say?

[Mary White]

So, and I'm gonna bias it toward the kinds of questions you're gonna probably be asking me about. Anyway, so, of course you know, DNA is the genetic material and it consists of four different kinds of chemicals and those are abbreviated with the letters A, C, G and T, which stands for doesn't matter. Adenine, thymine, cycine, guanyosine, it doesn't matter. But anyway, so they're abbreviated acgt. And the important thing about DNA is it's an extremely long molecule and it's specific sequences of A's and C's and G's and T's. So it might be aacg, aatc, ag, CT and so on. And so just very long molecules and those are read by cells to encode information that's used to do things like build proteins, for example. And so it controls our genetics because most of our genetics. It controls our genetics because differences in proteins might lead to someone who has, say, muscles that work really well versus someone who has muscular dystrophy, for example. So it is those sequences of A's and C's and G's and T's that are important. And each of our sequences are unique, unless you happen to have an identical twin, in which case it might be a little tiny bit different, but essentially identical. So this is how DNA can be used to identify suspects. Because my DNA and your DNA are very different. Not, not very different, but different. My DNA and my sister's DNA are different and so on.

[Charles]

In this particular case that we're talking about, it's a 42 plus year old case, DNA was collected or things were collected at the scene. What would the challenges be of maintaining that evidence from now, from then until now?

[Mary White]

So it completely depends on what kind of evidence they collected. One of the things about DNA is that the enzymes that break down DNA or even things like sunlight that break down DNA often require, I'm going to say water, but aquatic. The enzymes work in an aquatic environment. So our cells are all full of water, for example. And so if you had some evidence that was dried, like for example, potentially skin cells that have flaked off might be dried and that might last a little bit longer. Whereas something like say, semen samples, which are liquid when they dry, maybe, but it really depends on how they're stored and how they're treated and so on.

[Charles]

There was skin under her fingernails. Would that be something that would be, you would be able to maintain over time?

[Mary White]

So what would normally happen is that you would either take samples like that and keep them in a freezer at very low temperatures, or you might sometimes store them in alcohol, for example. Like we're able to take museum specifically and I work on things like amphibians and reptiles, and you could take a museum specimen of a lizard that had been stored in alcohol for 42 years and get DNA out of it. It might not be perfect DNA, but you could get it out of it. But I don't know that in 1982 they would have done that. They probably would have put samples in freezers or something along those lines.

[Charles]

All right, so plenty to learn here. I asked Mary what the realistic chances were that there might be some. Some way to tie evidence found at the scene to someone's DNA.

[Mary White]

Now, if you start with good material, it's very fast, cheap and easy to get lots of information now, but that's probably the issue is how good the material they're starting with is.

[Charles]

So let's say the material is not great. Can they still get information that would be actionable?

[Mary White]

It really depends on how not great it is. And so when we look at DNA of any cell, any, well, I'll say animal cell, it's much more than that. But so we have what we call our main DNA, which is called nuclear DNA. It's in the nucleus of the cell, and that's what we think of as the real genetic information. And then there are these little things called organelles called mitochondria. Every time anyone knows mitochondria, they say, oh, that's the powerhouse of the cell sort of thing. And that has its own DNA. And each cell has lots of mitochondria. And each mitochondrion has multiple copies of its little. It's a little circular DNA. And if a sample is degraded, mitochondrial DNA is the easy one to get.

[Charles]

Again, with good reason. This is one of the areas where Stephan Montgomery has not told me much. I don't know what type of DNA they have. I don't know what kind of shape it is in. All I know is that they have something. There is some type of play being made on the DNA front. I just don't know what. What it is. From what I learned from Mary White, I just suspect that the absolute match we expect from DNA these days is probably asking too much.

[Mary White]

Maybe it's fairly easy to get DNA sequence from mitochondria, even if it's kind of degraded. It depends on how degraded it is. But the problem is, is that cousins might have identical mitochondrial DNA. Siblings probably have identical mitochondrial DNA. Mothers and children have identical mitochondrial DNA. So you can't say, I'm 99.9999% sure that this mitochondrial DNA came from this person, because it could have come from that person's sister or brother or cousin or whatever, mother, whatever. Whereas nuclear DNA, because we get half of it from our mother and half of it from our father, and, and it mixes up in different ways. That's why each person's DNA, other than identical twins, each person's DNA is unique. And so when you start analyzing the nuclear DNA, if you look at enough different places in that DNA, you can say, okay, well, there's a 1 in 100 chance that this came from this person. And there's a 1 in 350 chance that this did and this did, and this did, and this did. And then they multiply all these probabilities and they come up with numbers like there's a 1 in 7,328, whatever chance that this didn't come from this person. And so you can be pretty certain about a particular individual using nuclear DNA. But although the techniques have gotten better, the more degraded the nuclear DNA is, the less likely you are to get really nice, pretty results from that.

[Charles]

Let's say they're using the other type of DNA, not the nuclear mitochondrial. Okay. Even so you could identify a suspect's family from that DNA. Correct.

[Mary White]

So what I would say, and again to hedge a little bit, is if they sequence the mitochondrial DNA and they sequence someone, you know, a sibling or this suspect, if they sequence those two things, if they were not the same, it would be really easy to say this is not the right person. It is dicier to say this is the right person. But you could say certainly, I mean, like, if you took. So this happened in Covington, let's say if you took all these people in Covington and did their mitochondrial DNA randomly, some people's might be the same just because there are only so many different kinds of, of mitochondrial DNA. But if you had strong reason to suspect a person and it turned out identical to theirs, you would have even stronger reason to suspect that person.

[Charles]

So maybe the DNA could rule out suspects. Maybe it could get us in the ballpark of the guilty parties. Again, this is yet another example of Roxanne's killers catching a break and Roxanne's murder remaining unsolved. If this crime happened today, I mean, knowing the little bit that you know about it, there was evidence all over the place in terms of the scene, would they have a hard time connecting the person to them?

[Mary White]

So again, the only thing would be that they have to have a sample of that. So if they have a sample of that person's DNA, they would have no trouble connecting the person to the scene. I mean, DNA is definitive. If you have skin under fingernails, semen, things like that, and you have a suspect and you can get a sample of DNA from that suspect or that suspect's sister or mother or whatever, brother, just mentioning ones, but you could absolutely connect it.

[Charles]

I want to thank Dr. Wide and Southeastern Louisiana University for being available on very short notice to explain DNA to a layperson. The DNA in this case is the ultimate loose end. I know this much Some of the evidence taken from the scene of Roxanne's murder was in a freezer. The evidence was lost when Hurricane Katrina roared through. How much remains and its value to the case is only known by a select few people, and I am not one of them. DNA or not, Stephen Montgomery thinks he's got a bead on where answers to the many questions about this case can still be found in the ozone or from people who were connected to the ozone in 1982.

[Stephen Montgomery]

I would have to say that some of the key witnesses to what really happened were the elders of that community that lived up in the ozone because they saw and heard everything. But they remained tight lipped because it was either their family members involved or they were scared of the retaliation or they were just brought up not to. Not to talk about those things. And a lot of those people took this to their grave. Even now in the people that I have talked to since this podcast, you know, kids and grandkids of these people, they know the story, but they never really knew the details. And hey, they're asking the same questions that we are and they're getting the same answers. We don't talk about it. It's mind boggling.

[Charles]

Stephen Montgomery has been pretty deliberate about what he says in response to the questions and opinions I'm constantly throwing his way. But you can hear some frustration in that response. And he did say this.

[Stephen Montgomery]

I get asked pretty regularly, well, what's your opinion on what happened to Roxanne Sharp? And I'll tell you, I don't have an opinion because I'm very evidence based in my conclusions. But here's what I'll tell you. From my experience growing up in this area and living in the country is we had an old saying that, you know, these people on a Friday night, if they couldn't find somebody to fight, they'd fight each other. And that's very true. But if somebody came in from the outside and started trouble, they were in for way more than they bargained for. And so I say that to say this, if someone would have come in from the outside and killed Roxanne Sharp, this entire ozone community would be out looking for him. But by the fact that they closed the doors and windows and pulled the blinds and acted like it never happened, it tells me that I'm in the right place. Who Killed Roxanne Is a North Shore Media Group production. New episodes drop weekly Original music by Cressley Calura Connect with the podcast [e-mail] if you have a tip or information for Louisiana State Police, call 985-635-3167 or email northshorecoldcasea.gov.