A (2:46)

It's an honor. And I have to say up top, because I have said this to so many people behind closed doors, but I've never said it publicly. When I think of, like, the most real deal when it comes to ministry, loving God and loving people, it really is you. When I think of someone that I aspire to be like, and I want to do ministry, like, and lead a family, like, I think of you. And I say that to people because last year, my family went through a really, really hard season. And I've shared a little bit about that on the podcast. We've gone through hard things. We talked about spiritual warfare, but, you know, of course, no one knows the extent of that, but I've been a little transparent on it. But no one knows that during that time when I was struggling, I texted you one day and I was like, hey, will you pray for us? We're going through a little bit of spiritual warfare. And you responded back and you were like, not, will I pray for you, but can I come and pray for your family and anoint your home with oil? And the next week you're on a plane flying to our house, and that meant so much to us. And then that you spent an entire day praying with our family. You left and you never posted about it. You didn't, like, no one knew that you did that. That wasn't, like, something that you were talking about. It was just something truly from the goodness of your heart. And it, when I say changed our life, I don't even say that in a light way, changed our family's life that day of prayer. And so I just want to honor you for who you are and how you love and just tell everybody this is the real deal here. So thank you for loving us that way.

B (4:20)

You're welcome. I've been praying for you for a very long time, and I will continue to. And, you know, I think that's the beauty of sisterhood and the body of Christ. We're supposed to be there in those valleys as much as the Mountaintops. But not everybody needs to know about it. Sometimes it's just the Lord, you know, and you go and do the work of the Lord and you keep quiet about it so that God gets the glory. Yep.

A (4:44)

Man, it was beautiful. It meant so much. It taught us so much. And for those who don't know Alex and don't know our backstory, if you've ever heard me say I was 17 years old and I saw a woman preach for the first time, that was Alex and so truly been tracking for a really long time. But I want people to get to know you a little bit. So tell a little bit about where you're from, your family, all the things.

B (5:06)

Well, I. I am Australian by birth and I grew up in Adelaide, South Australia. And I got saved at the age of 11. God transformed my life. I grew up in a Christian home, but I really met Jesus at 11 and was filled with the Holy Spirit. Totally transformed who I was. I went from this shy, timid little kid to this little mini evangelist at school where I just had to tell everybody about Jesus. And I really sensed the call of God on my life to be in full time ministry. But I didn't know what that looked like because in 1984 there weren't a lot of females in, you know, vocational ministry. I think the only person was like Joyce Meyer that I could see and Marilyn Hickey for those people probably don't even know who she is. But they were the two women that were really doing what I felt God had put on my heart. And I thought, how is this gonna happen? You know, I come from this tiny little town called Adelaide, South Australia, but there was just such a fire in my heart. And so grew up, went through, you know, everything that you do. And at 20, 21 years of age, went to Bible colle, got headhunted by my church and they employed me as a new Christian's pastor. So started ministry really young at 21 and got married at 25 and then went through infertility at 30, got miraculously healed, had two children, and then at 39, moved across the pond to America just by the leading of the Holy Spirit to say go. And then we landed in Nashville, not knowing what we were going to do. And then God just accidentally. Well, he didn't do it accidentally. We accidentally pastored a church and now we're pastors of the Belonging co. And I've been married 28 years and my kids are 22 right now and 18 and they're amazing. And so I love God. I love people And I love doing God's work.

A (7:01)

So good. Oh, your story is so amazing too. And even the way you hop around it, I know more of the story and I'm like, but that part is so amazing. It's like when you're trying to sell an overview of a testimony and you're like, here's this, here's that. Okay, so you say you accidentally started a church. And that really is such a crazy story because for people who know of the belonging or know the belonging, it is a really big church now. You'll have an amazing conference, an incredible worship team. But it did start so small. How can you tell a little bit about those early days?

B (7:30)

Absolutely. I mean, we moved to Nashville, Tennessee, because my husband has always been in worship ministry. He's a producer, audio engineer. So it just made sense. Nashville made sense. It wasn't even like God said, thus saith the Lord, go to Nashville. Made sense. Cause he'd already been working with artists and bands. So we kind of landed there. And it felt actually very much like Adelaide where I grew up. And I thought, this is a good place to raise kids. So we landed in Nashville and we thought Henry was just going to focus on music. And so he started. He was engineering and producing and I didn't have anything. I was kind of like, oh, well, I couldn't get a job. I wanted to get a job at anthropology or some retail job. I couldn't be in point because I had no experience. All I'd ever done was pastoring. So I'm like, well, looks like I'll be a stay at home mom for a while. Which I loved, by the way. And my kids were 4 and 8 at the time, and so we were just doing life. But I was. I felt like God had put me in a bit of a hidden place where I just sought his face for those couple of years that we were there. In the meantime, we were meeting artists and musicians and writers that Henry was working with. And we were on always saying, where do you go to church? Do you love your church? And they would all be like, well, we go to church. But we wouldn't say, we love it. I'd be, what do you mean you don't love church? Cause I loved the church that I came from in Australia. And we were visiting churches every single week. And mind you, none of them were bad. It's just that I couldn't sense the tangible presence of the Holy Spirit. And I'd kind of leave every week going, I don't think this is it. And I Don't think this is it. And I actually think God had my eyes veiled for a reason. Because if we had found one that we. Yes. And I think God was hiding that from us to give us almost a reconnaissance of. To see what the need was in the body of Christ. And so then we had dinner with a couple of our friends, and we sat around the table one night. And both of them are in the industry. One's a really prolific songwriter, the other one's a great producer. And they both said, why does this feel like church? I said, well, it's. Cause we're talking about the things of God and we're sharing our heart. And then Henry was like, maybe we just need to open our home on a Tuesday night. You know, everyone gets on a tour bus on Wednesday, leaves on a Sunday, comes home on a Sunday. Their Sabbath is normally Monday, Tuesday. Why don't we do something for those that are not in church on a Sunday? Because they're pouring out, but we pour back in. We know how to preach, we know how to lead worship. Let's just open our home. Well, the first night we just opened our home, five of our friends came. I mean, literally, it was five people. Henry puts his hand on the piano and the presence of God just hits that place. And all of them are like, on the floor, prostrate before the Lord, weeping. And I'm going, hold on a minute. This feels holy. And we didn't know it then, but I actually remember saying something feels profound about this. And I can't explain it, but I feel like it's the beginning of something, but I didn't know what. Well, then we just did it every other Tuesday. Well, every other Tuesday would roll around and they would invite their friends, and then we would have their friends and then their friends. And I never invited another person. It's just that everybody had heard about it, got their lives wrecked, and then went away and told people. So in that first year, we had this basement with about 120 people in it. And I remember I was actually at a recording with Kerry. And with Kerry, actually she was doing her Majestic album. We were in Dallas, and we'd just been invited to preach and perhaps take a job in California. And we were saying, lord, speak to us tonight. And we were in Dallas, so we didn't know anybody. Everyone we knew was on stage. So we were in this major, beautiful theater. And Chris Kane was there, my friend of, you know, forever. And Chris sees us and she says, alex, what is going on in the basement? And I Said, I don't know. You tell me. God's just moving. There's 100 and so people. She goes, no, I'm hearing testimonies of people's lives being changed. Do you know that this is a church? And we're like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. We don't want to pastor a church. We just want a minister. And she says, no, no, no. You're going to be disobedient if you do not start a church, because you've got to reproduce what both of you carry. Something pure is happening, and it's got to be planted in the soil of Nashville. No sooner was another guy, random person that we'd never met in the balcony, he comes up over to us. He goes, I'm sorry, I don't normally do this, and I don't know who you are, but Henry, he finds out who we are, like Henry and Alex, and he goes, henry, you're a worship general, and you're about to lead an army of worshipers. And it's in Nashville now. He didn't know. He didn't know we were from Nashville, and he didn't know we lived there. And we just knew, all right, God, we can't be disobedient. Went back to Nashville, said no to the assignment in California, Went back to our little Tuesday night Bible study and said, guys, this is officially a church. And they were all hooraying, going, finally. Alex and Henry have finally got the program, and we launched February 2014 officially, and the rest is history. And God has just blessed it and poured into it, and we are just stories.

A (12:49)

Something I've been thinking about lately is how much the spaces we spend time in really affect us. And I realized I just feel better whenever. I actually love being in those spaces. And that's why I've been putting a little more intention into our outdoor space lately. And Fast Growing Trees has been such a game changer for that, because let me tell you, I do not have a green thumb. They're the largest and most trusted online nursery in the US with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers. They have everything from fruit trees to shrubs and even a ton of different house plants so that you can really create a space that fits your life. Fast Growing Trees makes it so simple to get the right plants for your vibe and your space. You just click order and it shows up at your door ready to plant. Plus, everything is backed by their alive and thrive guarantee, which gave me so much confidence in ordering online. Because. Because, yeah, I'm just Not great at that. So whether you have a huge yard, an apartment, or even a smaller space like a dorm, fast growing trees will help you find what actually works for your climate and lifestyle, which is so helpful. And this is really cool. They won't even let like the plant ship to your space if you live in an area that they don't think the plant will thrive in, which I think is really cool. Like when I put I live in Louisiana, it was like, okay, here's the things that will actually work for you. So they really help you right now. They have great deals on spring planting essentials. Up to half off on select plants. And listeners to our show get 20 off Heyo. Their first purchase. When you use the code Whoa at checkout, that's an additional 20 off. Better plants and better growing. At fast growingtrees.com use the code WHOA at checkout fast growingtrees.com with the code WHOA. Now's the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. Use Whoa to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. I actually had forgotten that you were a stay at home mom at the time because, you know, and couldn't get a job because knowing you, it's so impossible to imagine you going and doing that. I mean, even I said this before we started the podcast. I was running a little bit late. I was feeding kit and I said, I'm so sorry. And they said, don't worry, Alex is here and she's already on fire. Like, you're so preaching everywhere you go. It's so hard to like not see you doing that. So that's so cool though, because I do think to that point, people look at people like you, just so confident in what God is doing in your life and living fully in what God has for you. And you, you just think, oh, well, of course she's doing it. Like she just knew. And at 11. And it's like, no. Even if God plants that in your heart, you don't see the full picture. You don't know how that's gonna turn out. So it really is a day by day. It's a step by step and leaning in. And I love that prayer. Like speak to us here and then two people. Two do.

B (15:29)

Yeah.

A (15:29)

Which is so cool. Did you and Chris know each other in Australia?

B (15:31)

Yeah.

A (15:32)

Y' all did.

B (15:32)

I've known Chris. I think we worked it out. Gosh. We Met. Met in 1994, I think it is.

A (15:41)

That's so cool. Isn't that crazy? I love that. That's so cool. Okay, so I want to get into the Divine counselor and the book. I'm super excited about this conversation because this book's about Holy Spirit and you're obviously so passionate about talking about the Holy Spirit. You said at 11 that was what changed your life. That was what you were looking for in a church. I do know, like a lot of my listeners are probably that's maybe even in somewhat foreign language of what that looks like. I mean, even for me, you know, a traditional background up until 17. And my life truly did change when I encountered the Holy Spirit for what I believe the first time I was awakened to that, it changed my life. I was the same as you. I was so shy beforehand, did not want to speak on a stage, dreaded being the Duck Dynasty kid who had to speak on stages. And then after, obviously my life significantly changed. So I'm so excited to go into this topic because so many people might have never had an opportunity or a conversation where this has come up or how to even start one. So I'm thankful for it. Talk to me a little bit about why you even wanted to write a book on the topic.

B (16:50)

Yeah, it's been so, so imperative in my Christian walk. And as I have journeyed through, you know, I've been in ministry for 31 years. I've seen such a sort of juxtaposition of those people who are full on for God with the Holy Spirit and those that avoid it completely. And I think the big C church has done a disservice in representing Holy Spirit in a weird way. And you've either been brought up to be told he's weird, that it's not for today. Speaking in tongues is this weird thing. But if we only see the Holy Spirit as speaking in tongues, we're missing out on the third person of the Godhead. It is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And Jesus was so, so passionate about the Holy Spirit because he said, I have to go, right in John 14, 15, 16, you read through, it's the last week of his life on Earth and he's preparing his disciples and he's saying, hey guys, I've gotta go. But it's beneficial. It's to your advantage that I go back to be with the Father, because then I'll send the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Christ. In essence, it's the Spirit of God to be with all of you, the Spirit of truth who will lead you in all truth. He'll guide you. He'll be your comforter, your counselor, your standby. Your advocate, all of these beautiful attributes. It's just like Jesus walking with the disciples for three and a half years. They had him every single day. They could ask him, they could talk to him, they could watch him, they could see what he was doing. And so they had God walking with them. And so he's like, I can't stay limited to this physical being, otherwise I can't touch the whole earth because I'm limited to geography, time and space. But if I go back after resurrection, I'll go sit at the right hand of the Father, I'll intercede for you guys, and I'll release my spirit on the earth so that you can have relationship with my spirit and then be able to walk in the fullness of authority and power, just like the disciples did while Jesus was on earth. And another thing is Jesus actually said to his disciples, don't leave Jerusalem until you've been clothed with power from on high. He says that in the Book of Acts. Why did he say that? Because he knew they would not have been able to do this Christian life to the fullness without the power of the Holy Spirit. And so it's imperative for us to know this third person. And I'm sad that the church sometimes has made it so weird that now we avoid him rather than want to learn about him. And so I'm passionate about this topic because I want the church to know the power that they carry. Because it's inside of you. Because all of us get the Holy Spirit when we get saved. This is the power of the Holy Spirit.

A (19:41)

So good. Okay, now that we're on that, everyone gets the Holy Spirit when they're saved.

B (19:45)

Yes.

A (19:46)

Can you talk a little bit about that? Because you talk about, like, being baptized in the Spirit and receiving the Holy Spirit. I think some people do wonder, like, do I have the Holy Spirit? I love Jesus. I'm saved.

B (19:56)

Yeah.

A (19:57)

Does that come another time? Can you tell us a little bit about how you even receive that?

B (20:01)

Absolutely. So at salvation, you can't get saved without the Holy Spirit, because it's actually the Spirit of God that draws you to Jesus. That's his role. So the Holy Spirit is the one who spoke to you first.

A (20:15)

That's cool.

B (20:15)

And a lot of people will often say, I've never heard the voice of God. Yes, you have. Because if he drew you to get saved, if he drew you to repentance to Jesus, you heard the voice of God.

A (20:25)

Right.

B (20:26)

So the Holy Spirit, his job is to reveal Jesus. His job is to point you to Jesus. So he leads you to Jesus to get that revelation that his blood and his body was broken on the cross so that we could be saved.

A (20:40)

Right.

B (20:40)

So Jesus does the work of that redemption through his blood. But it's the Holy Spirit that leads you to Jesus. So at salvation, you can't receive one without the other. So when you repent and you ask Jesus to come into your life, then you've received Father, Son, Holy Spirit. He dwells inside of you. And so that Holy Spirit now is leading you all truth. He's sanctifying you. Right. So we are justified by faith.

A (21:06)

Yeah.

B (21:07)

And that's the blood of Jesus. He justifies us, removes sin from us, but then we've got to walk out our salvation. Right? And that is where we need the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit gives us the gifts of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness. Right? So that's all in us now. So the Holy Spirit's the convictor of sin. The Holy Spirit is the revealer of truth. The Holy Spirit is in you to go. Don't do. Do it that way, do it this way. Right? So the Holy Spirit's with you, but it's the power of the Holy Spirit that comes upon you. So Holy Spirit in you at salvation. And then there's a baptism of fire. So John the Baptist said, I come to baptize you in repentance, right, with water. But there is one who's going to come and baptize you with fire. And this is what gets me excited, because Jesus is the one who baptizes us with fire. And this is why he says, said, don't leave Jerusalem. Stay until you're clothed. Even Jesus had the Holy Spirit come on him now. He is God in the flesh. He's the Word made flesh. Yet at baptism, he didn't go through the waters of baptism because he needed to be cleansed of sin. He did it as number one, an example to us. But also what people don't know, he was entering into his season of priesthood to be the mediator, the high priest. And in the Old Testament, the high priests would get washed clean before they were given the mantle of the whole, the oil on them to do the work that set them apart for priesthood. Isn't this fascinating? So good Jesus goes through the water of that baptism because he's about to enter into being the high priest for us, the mediator. So he gets washed not because of sin, but the washed. But then the dove comes and rests on him at baptism, and it says the Holy Spirit descended on him like a dove. And the heavens opened. And the Father said, this is my Son, in whom I'm well pleased with. And then what happens? The Holy Spirit leads him into the wilderness to overcome the enemy. See, the anointing now is on him to overcome the enemy. So he's in the wilderness 40 days, 40 nights, and he overcomes three temptations and the enemy has to flee. Now he leaves the wilderness, it says in Luke, with the power of the Holy Spirit. And that's when he begins his ministry. He opens the book in that temple, reads Isaiah 61, and everyone's marveled, why now the anointing has come upon him. They've heard that scripture being recited for years and years, but now the fulfillment of that prophecy is right in their midst. And he goes about and does the work of the ministry with the power of the Holy Spirit. So this is why we must get baptized by Jesus with that fire that gives us as power. In Acts 1, 8 means efficiency, ability and might. It is a power to be his witnesses, to give you boldness. It's the power to operate in the gifts of the Spirit. And so it's not just about speaking in tongues. It's about receiving a boldness and a power that empowers you to see healing, deliverance, freedom. And that's why it's so exciting and every believer can have it.

A (24:38)

So exciting. It's so exciting. It's so good. This is conversations making me so stoked. Okay, real life moment. Spring hits and suddenly my husband is outside all the time, running around with the kids, turkey hunting with his friends or messing around golf course. He is all over the place and that's why Christian and I have both been loving Poncho outdoors for him lately. Poncho shirts are super lightweight, breathable and quick drying, which is a huge win when it starts to get hot this time of the year. And they've got built in stretch so they feel and move so great instead of being stiff and tight. Plus most of them have UPF 50 plus sun protection so he's covered when he's out all day, which is great. What really sold me on Poncho though is how versatile their shirts are. So he can wear one outside all day and then he can go to dinner and he can even wear it to church and they all look great. They've got a few different styles like western denim, ultralight and of course the original which has all the features, hidden pockets, quick dry material, even a built in lens cloth which is kind of genius. And of course husbands geek out about these things. And the Poncho promise is everything. Free shipping, free returns, free exchanges. Because Poncho stands behind every shirt they sell. Trust me, these shirts will become a favorite in your household as well. What I think is impressive about Poncho, though, is my dad wears Poncho, Christian wears poncho, Christian's brother wears poncho. And the three of them have such different styles that you would not think that they would be wearing the same brand. But it looks good on everybody. So if you're looking for lightweight, comfortable shirts for spring and summer, check out Poncho Outdoors. Go to poncho outdoors.com Whoa. And enter your email for $10 off your first order. That's Poncho. P O N c h o outdoors.com Whoa. For $10 off and free shipping, go try one out. It's reminded me actually of when you came and talked to my family, because I was like, okay, everybody, Alex is coming to town, and I really want her to pray over us, anoint us with oil, all this stuff. And, you know, I'm asking all my siblings to come, and I want everybody to be a part of this. Well, sometimes you have a conviction and something that maybe not everybody else has. And we all love the Lord, but maybe not everybody felt that way. And so they're like, hey, we'll do it because we love you, but, you know, we'll see. And it was so funny. My brother John Luke goes, man, I thought that was going to be a lot more weird. And it wasn't. And we all needed that. And it was so good. And the way you begin to describe things that we thought, we talk about spiritual warfare. You talk about how you're praying in the spirit and all stuff. We thought this might be a little weird. This might be a little uncomfortable. Not one part of it was uncomfortable. Not one part was weird. When you started explaining the Old Testament, how what that meant and when this person did that, and it was like, oh, wow, this makes so much sense. And even just you teaching it like that and breaking it down on. Because when you think, like, baptized with fire, immediately you think of, okay, does that mean I have to speak in tongues? But it's so cool to go. The baptism by fire happens from Jesus, and for him, that was a dove coming and resting, which is actually, like, completely. That's right opposite of the imagery that sometimes you think of when you hear someone say, like, you have to be baptized by fire, where that sounds intimidating and scary. It's actually a gift from the Lord. It is comes and rests upon You.

B (27:51)

Yes.

A (27:51)

And that's a beautiful thing. And so, and. And you don't have to fear, like, what is it gonna look like? Because it's just gonna be upon you.

B (28:00)

That's right.

A (28:00)

When you just receive it.

B (28:02)

And you know what? There are nine gifts. It's not just the speaking in tongues. There's the gift of faith, there's the gift of wisdom, there's the word of knowledge, there's prophecy, there's the interpretation of tongues, there's the discernment of spirits, like deciphering whether someone's false or true. You've gotta understand this power gives us an advantage. That's why I love, I love when Jesus says, it is to your advantage that I go, why? What happens when you're given an advantage? You're given a head start. You're given almost a key to win. And it's something the world doesn't have yet. We've got this advantage, which is the knowledge of God. The Bible says that we have the mind of Christ. So when you have that, you've got an advantage of how to navigate through your problems, through your issues, through trauma that's happened in your life. God gives you tools and keys and power. Not just about speaking tongues. Honestly, the gift of speaking in tongues is just your prayer language.

A (29:05)

So I was going to ask you to talk about what that is, because some people, when they hear speaking in tongues, you're like, weird. They have an image of what's coming to mind. But actually, like, when I started going to the belonging, I was like, okay, this is not what I always thought it was. And I love whenever you talk about, for you, receiving the gift of tongues and what that looks like for you. Yeah. Can you just explain what that even is and what advantage is that?

B (29:29)

Yeah, tongues is just a heavenly language. Right. So it's a language we don't understand in the natural, but it is a spiritual language. And the Bible says that when we speak in tongues, we edify our spirit. We build ourselves up in faith. Right. So it edifies us, it builds us up, it strengthens us. It's a prayer language that's like a direct phone line to God. So you may be praying in the Spirit, but what the Holy Spirit does is he downloads thoughts in your native language. Right. And so when I'm praying in the Spirit, I can be feeling flat, I can be down, I can be just totally distracted, and I'll just start to pray in the Spirit. Just pray in this. This beautiful heavenly language. I'm not praying it to the public I'm not praying.

A (30:12)

It's not for anyone else.

B (30:13)

It's not for anyone else. I'm praying it because it's my prayer language to God. And then what happens is God will start dropping thoughts like, hey, call that person. Or, hey, maybe you need to deal with this. Or maybe you need to let that go. So that's what it's for. It's a weapon. The enemy doesn't understand language either. It's not. It's a mystery, right, to mankind. It's a mystery to men and women, but it is not to God. And so the Apostle Paul said, I speak in tongues more than you. Oh, why? Because he needed edification. He needed being built up. But then there's this other gift that is the interpretation of tongues. And when I grew up in church, we used to. I came from a very charismatic background. And there'd be times where the spirit of God would be in the. In the. In the meeting. What do I mean by that? You could just feel a weighty presence of God. Then a person would speak in tongues out loud, and then they would have someone come to the front and give the interpretation. And I'm not exaggerating when I say it was a word that would directly hit your spirit. Like, you'd be like, I needed to hear that today. And it didn't. It doesn't happen that much these days. I wish it would, but again, that's what that interpretation is. I write a story in there about how somebody spoke in Aramaic, and they didn't even know they were speaking in Aramaic, yet there was a person in the congregation that understood Aramaic. Aramaic. And they came up and they said, you're not gonna believe what you just said. But you said, you know, whatever he said, and it blessed me, and it showed me that God is real. She didn't know she was doing. She was just speaking in her prayer language. And that's what. The day of Pentecost, what happened, where

A (31:48)

they all understood each other.

B (31:50)

They all understood each other because it was this prayer language that is mysterious.

A (31:55)

So cool.

B (31:56)

But it had a function and a purpose to reveal God. So if it's done just for yourself, then it's not. It's a flesh thing. And this is what makes me sad, is that there is a lot of people in churches that have made it weird, have made it about themselves, and they manifest in weird ways. And that's why the church has gone. We're keeping it safe. But I think it's an enemy tool, because he says, make it weird so that people don't go near it. But I'm here to say you can walk naturally supernatural, just like Jesus did. Was Jesus walk weird? No. Did he move in signs, wonders and miracles? Yes.

A (32:34)

That's great. Oh, that's so cool. And just to say too, from for the listener, I. I remember feeling those feelings of feeling like that is weird or feeling intimidated by, you know, what that would look like if I was in churches that were more charismatic than I was used to. And I actually had a bad experience one time with someone saying, like, you have to speak in tongues. You're filled with the spirit. And so then they start, like praying over me aggressively. And then they're like, do it. Speak in tongues. And I didn't because I was like, no, I don't feel that. Like, I'm not gonna fake something here. And so they kept saying it and then they, they like, stop. And they said, you think too much. Like you're in your head. And I remember, like, it makes you feel shame because then you're like, well, am I not filled with the spirit? And I'm telling that story not because I'm still hurt by that story, I think, but I'm sharing that to say there are probably some of you who are listening to this who might have been hurt by someone and, you know, yes. Manipulation. Honestly, just in the church. And that's not every church. That is some churches. That's not every person. That's some people. And it was such a blessing to come to Yalls church and there are so many other amazing churches like this that just had that healthy perspective of everything you're saying. You're backing up with scripture. That's right. This is what this is. This is what this says. It's not like some far out concept you're bringing that you've never read. You can read all of this in scripture. And that's one of my favorite ways that you teach is in spirit and in truth.

B (34:02)

Yes.

A (34:02)

It's always backed up by. And then this happened here and this happened here, and we're seeing that here, which would only make sense. That points you to believe even more in God, because it's the same God that you're seeing and those stories that you're seeing today on the note of you were talking about how the Holy Spirit, love, joy, peace, it's the conviction. I love how you write the story about you and the club because, like, that's so relatable. So many young people are listening to this podcast and they might not know, like, that's the Lord. Speaking to them, saying like, hey, don't do that. There's better for your life. Can you talk about just learning to one discern when the Holy Spirit's speaking and the quick to obey when the Holy Spirit is speaking? Because that's an advantage.

B (34:44)

He's always speaking to us. We're just not always listening. Or we're listening and we're ignoring and not obeying. And his voice sounds like his word. It's really, really kind. It's full of faith, it's full of goodness. It's convicting. Like, he'll come with correction and conviction, but it won't come with judgment. See, like that person leading you into unlocking your prayer language, that was flesh. Because they came with judgment. And like, it was a forced thing. It wasn't this beautiful thing. Whereas the Holy Spirit's not like that. He's a gentleman. He's gentle. That's one of the fruits of the Spirit. So you can't have a fruit of the Spirit and have the Holy Spirit not be the opposite.

A (35:25)

That's really good, right?

B (35:26)

He's gentle. So he's going to be gentle, not forceful. And so he speaks gently and honestly. He'll whisper sometimes where you might even miss it. But for me, there'd been a call of God on my life since I was a little girl, but yet I was trying to figure things out. Is this Christian thing really what I want to sell my life out to? Or do I want to see what everyone else is doing? And I remember being in this nightclub, and Holy Spirit didn't make me feel ashamed being, but he did say, hey, what are you doing here? This is not the life I have for you. And I remember seeing this because everyone's walking around like dead people walking. He's like, I've given you life and life abundantly. This is only going to lead you to destruction. You need to get out of here. This is not what I have for you. And I'm not kidding. It was so loud in my spirit that I just had to quickly obey. The best thing I did was just get up and respond. Because what happened in my bedroom when I got home that night is when I drew a line in the sand at the age of 20. And I remember saying, God, I give you my whole heart. Because I think there's a lot of people, they love Jesus, but they give him 50% or 80%. But the Holy Spirit's leading us to give him 100% because what he'll do with a life surrendered is a very powerful thing. It's like you, you had to make a decision, are you going to go this way or this way? And the Lord was very clear in his no, follow this way. And look at the way God has blessed you. Now, does it come with hardship? Hundred percent. We're not saying it's a life of, you know, tulips and roses, but it is the most blessed life. And so you hear the Holy Spirit in your inner man. It's an impression, it's a thought. But it will never condemn if, if it's Holy Spirit. It will never judge and it will never shame you. It will always correct you, convict you, but it will uplift you and it will feel like a kind, correct direction. So be, just lean into it.

A (37:22)

A loving father.

B (37:23)

That's, that's not for you.

A (37:25)

You have better. Yeah, that's great. There's just something about this time of year that makes you want to do a little reset. The days get fuller, schedules pick up, and for me, with work, travel, and three little ones, it's the perfect reminder to get back to the basics. One thing I'm always focusing on is keeping my routine simple and consistent. And that's why I love AG1. It just makes everything super simp. Instead of trying to keep on track with a bunch of different supplements, it is a one scoop thing that pretty much covers all the bases, which is huge for me, especially whenever I'm traveling or my routine looks a little different. I especially love the travel packs because you can literally put them in your purse and take it anywhere you're going on the road. So easy. And since I've learned about how important gut health is, I'm so thankful. AG1 supports digestion and nutrient absorption, plus it supports brain health and mood too, which honestly just makes me feel so much better, more clear headed in such a busy season. AG1 also provides support for my immune health and antioxidants, probiotics and functional mushrooms. I'm telling you, it's really all in one. It's one of the most helpful, just consistent habits that you can put into your lifestyle. Again, it's just so many benefits to this. Instead of having to take this supplement and that supplement and figure out what to do for your brain and what to do for your gut. This is just a one scoop thing that's going to help everything. You'll feel it in your energy so fast. I know I did when I started taking it. Visit drink ag1.com Whoa. To get an AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin plus K2 free and your welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription, a 72 value. That's drinkag1.com. Whoa. Okay, so I want to talk about the story of Henry encounter the Holy Spirit in his car. Because I think this is really cool because I mean Christian and I have experienced this some in our, our marriage and you've even walked us through that. Maybe some people, they do feel filled with the spirit, but maybe people around them don't know what that looks like and what that means. And I just want you to talk a little bit about how Henry encountered the spirit and what that looked like for Yalls relationship.

B (39:31)

Yeah. This is a special testimony in the book because Henry grew up in a very traditional church as well and he didn't grow up in a charismatic environment. And then when at 19 he got saved and was in our local church, which was a charismatic environment. Well, when we first got married we had a revival in our young adult ministry. And what was meant to just be a weekend church young adult camp ended up being a six week revival seven nights a week for six weeks where we saw thousands of people come to Jesus. And we were in church every single day at nighttime, you know, straight after work till midnight every night for six weeks. And he was playing the keyboard every night for six weeks, you know, ushering in this beautiful move of God that we had back in 1990. It was unreal. That's why I love hearing about revivals in America that's happening in the young adult space because I experienced that. But at the time, Henry was just the keyboard player. Loved God, had the Holy Spirit in him, but he'd never had a connection with the person of the Holy Spirit. So he's kind of like. I always saw it as a power and a force, but I never knew him as a power person. And one of his friends one night came up to him and he'd had. His dad had left them when they were little. And so he always had this disjointed view of the Father, Father God, because of his own earthly father. And this particular night Matt came up to Henry and said, Henry, you're never going to believe this. I'm at the front. And I had this encounter with Holy Spirit and he wrapped his arms around me. I can't explain it, but I felt like the Father was wrapping his arms around me and he gave me a whole understanding of the Father God loving me and not rejecting me and not being my earthly father. And he's weeping. And so this is a grown man talking to my husband who's like, I know Matt. Like, this is real. But he got in the car that night about midnight. And we took separate cars that night. I went home and he got in the car and he was a little bit angry. And he goes, this isn't fair. He goes, I've been a Christian now for a few years, and he was 24 at the time. And he's like, I don't have this relationship like that Holy Spirit with you. Like, I don't know you. Like, Matt just had that. And I've been here playing keyboards. He was almost a little bit jealous. Like, well, this isn't fair. Here I am serving you, and I'm diligent and I'm helping create this atmosphere, right? Yeah. And he was in the car, he's driving, and he feels this impression. I'm right here. And he goes, you know that feeling you get when you know someone's walked in the. But you haven't seen them yet, but you can feel their presence? He goes, it was like that. And he goes. And it's. It terrified him.

A (42:16)

Wow.

B (42:16)

And he was in the car. And he goes, I actually had to pull over. Cause I went, I'm too scared to look now. We drive on the right side in Australia. So he looked to his left. No one was actually there. But he felt a presence. And it didn't scare him. Now it just. It just was an awe and wow. Wonder moment. He pulls over and he just begins weeping.

A (42:38)

Wow.

B (42:39)

And the Holy Spirit just says to him, hey, Henry, I want to have a friendship with you. Because. Well, what does that mean? He goes, I want you to converse with me like you would Alex, like you do Jesus. And stop calling me the Holy Spirit. Because I feel like that that brings a separation. He goes, yes, of course, I am the only one, the Holy Spirit. But you don't come home and say, hey, hey, thee Alex. Hey, the wife. He goes, you call her Alex. And then you're intimate with her with your conversation, and you're vulnerable and you share things. He goes, why don't you start doing that with me? And he's like, now? And he goes, yeah, ask me how I am. And so he's having this dialogue just with his heart. Like he can. I know it sounds weird if you're listening, thinking, but what does that mean? It's like he just took a pause and started to listen in his inner. In a voice. He said, just ask me how I am. And he's like, okay, how are you? He's like, great. How are you? He goes, well, let Me tell you about my wrestle. I've had this wrestle. And he goes, Henry, I'm here 24 7. All you have to do is stop long enough and lean in with me, listen for my voice and exchange your heart, and I'll give you my heart. They had this moment on the side of the road. He drives back home and he feels the Holy Spirit say, open the door for me and let me out the car. And he's like, okay. He's going, oh, this is all a wrestle in my mind going, this is weird, but I just want to be a baby. He gets out the car, he opens and he goes, don't open the door. Knock on the door and let Alex know you're bringing me into your marriage and the rest of your life, that I'll be the center of this relationship. Relationship. He's like, this is going to be weird. Alex is going to be like, what? He gets to the door, it's past midnight, and he knocks on the door. I come to the door, and he's got his arm, like, up like this around an invisible person. But I'm not exaggerating when I say, when I open the door and I just see him standing there, I could tell he'd been crying. I felt the presence of God at the threshold of that door. I start crying and I go, what's going on? And he goes, alex, this is Holy Spirit, my best friend. And he's asked me to walk in and have him be in our home and our marriage for the rest of our lives. Well, I just felt God at that moment. We walked down the hallway, we go into the living room, and we're just weeping. We can feel the very tangible presence of God. And we made a decision that day that he would be the center of our marriage, the centre of our future children. We hadn't had children at the time that our home would be full of his peace. And it's 28 years now. We've been married this weekend, and I tell you, he's been center. He's helped us through our marriage difficulties. He's helped us in our parenting. He's helped us in our life. And Henry has had this moment where he said he shifted from being power and presence to person and friend has changed our lives.

A (45:41)

It's beautiful. It's so beautiful. And it's so cool to hear that. Because how you stopped and you said, this might sound weird, but to someone who's experienced it, it's like, no, that's exactly that. It's not the same for every person. And that's what's beautiful about it because it's personal to that person. But that is how you feel that, that everything you're describing, like, wow, that's what we've experienced. I mean, we say so many times, I don't know how people do it without the Holy Spirit. I don't know how. I don't know how you parent without the Holy Spirit, or how you do marriage without the Holy Spirit. Because it's helped us so much with everything. It's cool that you said that story because I remember the first time someone was trying to encourage me to get to know Holy Spirit. And I'm going to have to start stop saying the. Because I really like that. That's so true. But they were like, well you should just ask, like just say, let's play a game, like talk to him like you would anyone. And I'm thinking again, I'm thinking, okay, this is like so crazy, but okay, we're gonna go for it. And so I remember like being like, okay, I'm just gonna do it. So it's like, wanna play a game? And it's so crazy. I'm telling this story because for the sake of. It feels like this is so crazy. But then what happens is so amazing and you can only know it's God because again, he's so personal to you that no one else would know that. And so I was like, hey, you're want to play a game? And so weird. I really just felt like Holy Spirit said, let's play Uno. I was like, okay. And I remember Holy Spirit said that day, this was the first time I'd ever tried to talk to Holy Spirit. And he said, let's play Uno. And then he like put down. It was like an image in my head of like putting down the wrong card. And what it brought me to was I used to play Uno with my great grandpa who was colorblind, and he would put down like green when it was blue. And I would be like, oh haha. Like you put down a green and it's actually blue. And Holy Spirit said, I miss when you would laugh thinking I made a mistake. But I always knew. And so I was like, ooh. That was like very personal and really powerful. Okay. So then he said when you thought I made a mistake, but I always knew. So anyways, I kind of like let that go. A couple years go by, I'm talking to my grandmother about it and I was like, this is kind of funny. This is like so weird. I didn't think she was going to to think that this was accurate. I thought she was going to laugh because we don't talk at that point. We didn't talk like this. Now we do at that point. We did it. And I said, so. One time I asked Holy Spirit, if you want to play a game. And it was like, uno. And it was just kind of this funny theme because it brought me this image of when me and Pepa Shack would play uno. And, you know, he was colorblind, so he would put down the wrong card. And my grandma goes, he wasn't colorblind. And I said, yes, he was. And then he goes, no, he just loved to see your reaction. She said that before I got to the punch, I always actually thought he was. I really believed he was colorblind. And the Holy Spirit said, when you thought I made a mistake, but I did that to see you smile. And it was like, so for me, I didn't even realize that moment was true. And that really was the Holy Spirit speaking until, like, a couple years later when I tell this to my grandma, and before I even get to the part, she goes, he wasn't clarifying. He just, like, see you smile. The exact thing Holy Spirit said to me in that moment. I was like, oh, my word, that's it. And that's it. It's like when the Lord prompts you and he begins to speak to you, like, to engage in that voice. And it's really cool because it is so personal. And like you said, not everyone has to know those moments are for you, and sometimes they're for others. Sometimes the Lord says, hey, you need to call this person. You need to say this. And you're thinking, oh, gosh. And you do. And they're like, thank you so much is exactly what I need to hear. Or it'll come. In dreams, there's been so many times I've had a dream, someone, and I go, okay, I'm just gonna go with it. And then it's exactly what that person's walking through. And so it's learning to trust with those little private conversations when then you go, oh, that was your voice. And then you begin to know it. Like, that's right.

B (49:51)

You get confident.

A (49:52)

You get confident. And just, like, you know your friend's voice. If someone were. I mean, even we did this game the other day. Just made me think of it when, you know, a little kid, like, we did it with Honey, and then we just tried to do it with Haven, and they are facing that way, and then their whole family comes behind them and says, hey, haven't or hey honey. And they know each person's voice. It's the same thing. You recognize it as a different voice, but a voice of God. That's right. And so we get asked all the time, like, how do you know the voice of God?

B (50:18)

Yes.

A (50:19)

So I wanted to expand on that. One of the things that you talk about, I think you just might have preached a message about it and wrote about it. But it's that idea of like, do you want to get well? And I want to end on this idea because I think so many people are walking through so many hard things in life that they do not know how to get past. They do not know how to overcome. And we believe Holy Spirit is the. The key, the advantage. What you need to kind of continue on. Can you just send people with encouragement of like, do you want to get well? Here's how you.

B (50:49)

Yeah.

A (50:55)

If your family is anything like mine, then it can be equal part sweet and chaos sometimes. Like the kind of moments that feel overwhelming at the time but then become some of your favorite stories to tell. That is, we live and we love that about life. But sometimes it's like, I want to remember these moments. And so you got to get the photos, but with an aura frame. Those moments don't just live on your camera roll or in your head. They actually can live right in your home for everyone to see. I love aura frames. I love how it lets you upload unlimited photos and videos and even sends ones straight to the new frame from your phone any time. So you can do that if that's your frame or if it's like your mom's frame you got her, you can send pictures to you, which is so fun. And the best part is you can pretty much preload it with photos if you're giving it as a gift. So whenever someone opens this box in this frame, they already have all your photos. It's so sweet. Or frames make such a meaningful gift, especially for Mother's Day. Instead of giving something that lasts a few days on the countertop or gets shoved in the back of the closet, this is something that keeps your family's awesome memories alive every single day. My mom, my mother in law, my grandmother, my aunts, they literally all have OR frames. So who could I give this to this year? I mean literally, they love it and I love it. Every time I'm at my grandmother's house, I love seeing all the pictures she's uploaded to to a frame. And my mother in law, it's so Fun. So you can make Mother's Day great with Aura frames named number one by Wirecutter. You can save on the gift Mom's love by visiting auraframes.com for a limited time. Listeners can get 25 off their best selling Carver matte frame with the code whoa. That's Aura A U R A frames.com with the promo code Whoa. And make sure you support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Thank you so much. Terms and conditions apply. Do.

B (52:34)

Yeah. I think right now there is a bit of an epidemic in our, this generation of actually we're wearing our problem as our identity. And if we have to ask, honestly, do you really want to get well? I don't think people do. I think sometimes we say we do. Yeah, but we, like, we are almost living in the excuse of, well, now I have this and now I have have that. But there are symptoms to our pain. You know, I had an eating disorder for 20 years. Now I could focus on that. But actually, the root of that pain was rejection and unforgiveness. And if I'm honest, I didn't really want to get well because what that eating disorder afforded me was control, because that's really what it was about. I can control my environment when everything else is out of control. But then also I'm getting affirmations now for the very thing I'm starved of, which is affirmation and acceptance. So now the skinnier I become, the more people are complimenting, which is so sad. Right. But that was feeding the very deficit that I needed God to feel.

A (53:38)

Wow.

B (53:39)

So if I'm really honest, did I want to get well? Kind of. But I made a lot of excuses and I blamed. Well, this happened to me the end at. As a kid. And this is happening now. And it's not fair because of this, this and this. But at the end of the day, Jesus didn't die and rise again so that I could cope through life and be addicted. He came so that I could be free. Galatians 5:1 says, it is for freedom that Christ came to set us free. So why do we keep binding ourselves up in the yoke of bondage? And I actually have to confront that which is binding me. And I think what happens is he, you know, he confronted a man who'd been lame for 38 years by the pool of Bethesda. And he asked him, he could see that he couldn't walk. He could. He could see visibly knew what he needed. But he wanted to hear from the man, do you want to get well, and it's amazing how he was received with blame and excuses. Well, every time I try and get in the water, which was a superstitious pool anyway, every time I, you know, the waters are stirred. There's nobody here to pick me up. 38 years, there's not. There's not been one person that could get you into that water when the water stirs. It was an excuse. And we see that because Jesus is like, actually, I've got the power to tell you to pick up your mat and walk. He didn't just lay hands on him and say, be healed. He told him to do something. Yeah, it required something of that man, and he got healed. Sad part is he didn't have his heart transformed because then when the Pharisees accused him of picking up his mat on the Sabbath, he blamed Jesus instead of testifying. And Jesus then revisits him later on and says, hey, be careful that something worse might happen to you if you keep sinning. Now, what was he saying? Not that he would have more physical ailment. Hey, you might not be in eternity with me if your heart isn't changed. Because what's the point of your physical being being changed if your heart's not changed? But then you've got this other story where this woman with the issue of blood, who had every excuse and everything to keep her from touching Jesus, doesn't. She touches the hem of Jesus's garment, and she thought to herself, if I could just do that, I'll be healed. And immediately she was. But Jesus doesn't finish there. If she just needed physical healing, he would have kept walking to heal Jairus daughter that he stops because he doesn't just want to physically heal her, he wants to emotionally heal her. And so he says, who touched me? And she had to come clean. And the Bible says, in fear and trembling, she told the whole truth. And when you are ready to tell the whole truth, that's when you want to get well. When you want to blame and shift and make excuses. You don't actually want to get well because being well requires you now to live in the land of the living. And I think we've got a generation that likes to hide behind a diagnosis. And yet Jesus came to deliver that. And he is our counsel on the Holy Spirit. And he's going to take you to the root issue. So for me, it was like, alex, do you want to get well? Okay, I'm ready now. Forgive. Let that go and be healed. And so I had to allow the pain of all of that Past to just come back up a little bit so that he could take it and deal with it. But a lot of us want to protect that part, give Jesus every other part and not truly want to get well. And I believe that we have the person of Holy Spirit who leads us in all truth, who convicts us of sin, but who is gentle and kind, and he's going to bring freedom if you want it.

A (57:18)

Great. Wow.

B (57:19)

Wow.

A (57:20)

It's. It's so good that you said that. This week I was actually studying this, and it just totally speaks to even the prayer. Right before this, I was like, God, speak to us so that we can speak to your listener and that it would be at the right time. And this week, I was reading the story of the woman with the issue of blood, the woman caught in adultery, and the woman at the well. And I was underlining how in each one, Jesus. Well, he told the woman at the. Sorry, the woman cutting adultery. He said, go and sin no more. He tells the woman who bled for each other, go and be in peace. And then he doesn't even have to say it to the woman of the well, because she just goes. She's just like, I'm gone. She just told me everything you ever did. Like, I love her. But there was always an action after that, and it was like, you have to change. You can't stay the same. And I was thinking about how. I think that's why, you see, we have so many people in church, but not a lot of people, like, evangelizing or ministering outside of the church. Church or filled with the Spirit. It's like, they go to church, but there's a disconnect between, like, their seats on a Sunday and how they're living on a Monday. And that's the thing. It's not just getting physically healed. It's spiritually healed. It's not just saying, okay, I'm, you know, baptized in the water, but I'm baptized in the Spirit. Like, that dove is on me everywhere I go. That anointing is on me everywhere I go. So I can't just encounter Jesus and then go and keep sinning. No, I got to sin no more. I gotta go and tell. I gotta go and be in peace. And so that's where, like, the Holy Spirit has to be in you. And that's what I love about Jesus, saying, it's to your advantage that I go. Because if he is even in the physical, he's beside you. But if his helper comes and is inside of you, and that changes everything. It Changes everything. It's like, even my doctor said, I don't know how people do it without the Holy Spirit.

B (59:12)

Exactly.

A (59:13)

Like my doctor was saying, like, we gotta give this to the great physician. Like. Cause he's like, I can only do so much with my hands. But it's like. So when you encounter people who are in the spirit, it's like, you're just so grateful for that because you're trusting in a power that's greater than the one we have, which is what we're all in deep need of.

B (59:31)

That's right.

A (59:32)

And so I just encourage you who's listening to this, Like Alex has said, this is an invitation for everybody. This isn't just for some people. This isn't something that you even have to wait for. I love how Henry's story happened in a car. This is something that could happen today if you invite the Lord into your heart and ask the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit to be your counselor, be your guide, start tuning your ears to hear his voice and start the journey, and then surround yourself with people you can talk to about it. Alex has been someone who I've talked to about this. I've asked many questions to. Part of this is something y' all are saying on a screen that I've done privately. What do you think about this? What do you think about that? I remember the first time I was, like, calling a mentor. What do you think about speaking in tongues? Like, ask mentors these questions. If you don't have a mentor, get plugged into a local church. That's how you're going to find one. And, yeah, start the conversation with people in your. In your place. But, Alex, thank you for writing this book. Thank you for being on this podcast and for all the ways that you've loved our family. We love you so much.

B (60:29)

Love you, too. Thank you for having me.

A (60:41)

La.