A (2:19)

Hi. Hi.

C (2:20)

Hey, y'.

A (2:20)

All. Jackie, you know, everyone loves our. Our conversations. Energies. Yeah. Colliding. They do. It's me being way too extra.

D (2:29)

It's not extra.

A (2:30)

You being right where you're at. Thank you.

D (2:31)

It's not extra.

A (2:32)

Do you know what this is? True story. I think I've told you this, but I used to be really intimidated by you. You know, it's just real. And. Because I just didn't know what you would think about me, you know? And so it was so cool at Jen Johnson's house, at a retreat.

D (2:48)

You was pregnant.

A (2:49)

I was. I'm always pregnant. I was pregnant. And I was like, I'm going to go tell Jackie, like, how much I respect her and love her. And I was nervous, so I go over there. I was like, hey, just want to let you know, Like, I just love the way you preach. Like, you just preach with so much boldness and truth, and. And you were like, so do you. And it meant so much to me. Like, it really did. And I was like, wow. And you. You asked me, like, why I was surprised by that. And I think because you don't mean to, but sometimes you compare yourself to other people, and you talk about this, like, not comparing your boldness to someone else's boldness, because it's more about obedience. I think I just kind of felt like, oh, I feel weaker in some sense or in some areas. But you encouraged me so much by, like, seeing me where I was at and being like, no, you're. You're awesome. You're preaching good stuff. Keep doing it. So thank you for doing that.

D (3:38)

Yeah, I love. I love unpretentious people. And so I. I think if anybody sees your content, they can tell you're telling the truth through the personality that the Lord gave you. Yeah, it's just. It's just dope. I don't know. I like it.

A (3:55)

That's so sweet. I love that. Well, I'm super glad you're here. Christian's also on the podcast for those listening and not watching, so we're going to have a little convo. Speaking of social media, Jackie, you just took a big social media break.

D (4:08)

I did. Inspired by Sadie, which is so cool.

A (4:11)

I mean, what I love about it is, you know, and I talked to you about this during your social media break. I was like, I don't know how much you're seeing or not seeing, but it's really cool. Ever since you've gotten off. Like, your videos that your team's posting haven't slacked in number, like just as many, if not more, some views, you know, and some of those things. And I think the fear of taking a social media break is like, oh, you're not going to be relevant when you come back or you're going to lose the algorithm. All these different things. Talk to me about why you took the break and what it taught you.

D (4:41)

Yeah, so I remember when we had the conversation and you mentioned taking a super, super long sabbatical and you know, when you're in conversation, particularly with Christians, and they say something that, like, I don't know, it feels interesting. Like, I'm supposed to put that in my pocket kind of how, like when the angel came to Mary and it said, like she hid it in her heart, it was one of those things. I put it in my pocket for the future. And so year, I always usually take a sabatical in the month of December, but it felt like I needed to take a really big one. And I was like, what would hurt me? Like, what would bore me? What would be intense? What would be dramatic? And I was like, oh, five to six months. I feel like that would be a very intense one. And so a big part of it is the principle, I think, that Jesus shows us in the scriptures, where in Luke it says that when the report of him grew, he would withdraw to desolate places and pray. And to me, that text has always ministered to me because it's like he's getting more famous, he's getting more attention, he's getting more popular, and he decides not to lean into that, but actually to withdraw and not to withdraw and do nothing. Not to withdraw and just go on vacation, not to withdraw and just have mimosas all day, but to pray. And so in our generation, it's like, how do you withdraw if not from social media, especially if that's your ministry context? And so that was the biggest thing. It's like, I did not. Yeah, things took a hit. The podcast took a h hit. I came out with an EP that took a hit upon waking. I couldn't push it during Christmas season, which is publishing, you know, bread and butter, like it was all types of stuff. But it was like, either I'm going to withdraw and pray and get with the Father so that when I come back out, I can actually have more integrity, have more character, more wisdom, or I'mma lean into the algorithm and affect my character in a way that doesn't serve anybody. So that's why I did it.

A (6:39)

That's so good. I mean, it's so. It's so true. It's so interesting when you study the word when it comes to, like, fame and popularity, because it's so opposite of what you tend to strive in and do. Like Jesus, like you said, every time he did a miracle or the crowds together, then he would step away, he would dip out. We've been reading that verse about make it your ambition to lead a quiet life. And then it says, for you will gain the respect of the outside world. It's like, how do those two things go hand in hand? Because you think, if I live a quiet life, if I take time off, if I sit back, then I'm going to lose the respect of the outside world. But somehow, in God's goodness, in the way he designed you not to be getting the glory, you really do. And we've been talking about that with my grandpa, because this is a man who literally had no cell phone, never, ever got on the Internet, never had a computer, lived in the middle of nowhere, hunted for a living.

D (7:35)

He was like a mon.

A (7:37)

Like, crazy. Like, this is a crazy thing. And he gained the respect of the outside world. Like, I mean, it's wild, you know, so it just shows you it can be done. Like, if God has something on your life and a platform comes with that, you don't have to try to keep it. Like Christine Cain says, if you build it yourself, then you have to keep it yourself. You know, that's the pressure.

D (7:57)

And why do you want to keep it?

A (7:59)

That's the pressure.

D (7:59)

I think that's the question.

A (8:00)

That's so true. So y' all make me laugh, because when you talk about being real on social media, no one's more real and authentic. The two of you, like, some of your posts are, like, straight preaching fire down from heaven. And then some of them, like, I'm gonna be real with y'.

D (8:18)

All.

A (8:18)

Like, you get your lip gloss on and, you know, y' all just start talking and telling people her lip gloss.

C (8:22)

I don't even put lip gloss.

A (8:23)

I mean, you don't be putting lip gloss on. That's more Jackie's thing. But, like, y' all just come on. So real. Preston, maybe you can speak to this. Like, is that intentional? Did y' all set out to do that, or is that just, like, who you are?

C (8:37)

No, I don't necessarily think it's intentional. I think if it's intentional, I think in some ways it's still fake. I think, you know, I think God Wants to use us, how he has uniquely made us. And I think one of the things that I'm blessed by is it didn't always come easy being ourselves. We got a lot of criticism, we got a lot of flack. You know, I've been on stages and with Yeezys on and got a lot of criticism. When I'm comfortable, I'm not gonna wear, you know, Bugle Boy pants to come on this platform. I'm gonna be myself, you know, And I think, I think it's just a testament to, you know, if God has made me, made me, you know, grew me up in the context that he grew me in, gave me the moment that he gave me, like he wants to use me, how he has uniquely made me. And I think God has honored that and I think that he has allowed us to develop, you know, followers that has appreciated it. And so that's why I love. I think it's risky at first, but it pays off in the end.

A (9:34)

So true. I love that because I think a lot of people think of it like, oh, you don't want to hype yourself up, but you also don't want to dumb yourself down. You know, it's like some people might go, I'm not going to dress like that. I'm not going to wear this because I don't want people to think that I'm this way. But it's so much freedom to say I'm not that way. Like it's not for any other reason than this is who I am. You know, this is how I express myself. And that's not bad. We were laughing this morning watching a clip of you, Preston, talking about people crying on social media.

B (10:01)

I was just about to say that. I was going to say I don't want to get ahead of myself because you just talked about being intentional and. Yeah. That sometimes things that are premeditated can actually be fake. When you are trying to be.

D (10:12)

Let me be real.

B (10:13)

Yeah, you're trying to be real, but you're actually being fake because it is not.

C (10:15)

I had people write me about that and you know.

B (10:17)

Did you really?

A (10:18)

Yeah.

C (10:19)

Cuz she, one girl was like, I.

A (10:20)

Actually do that all the time.

C (10:21)

All the time.

B (10:22)

You know, people spreading the legs.

C (10:24)

You know, every joke has some seriousness in it. I was just saying, you know, it is kind of weird where you see people have whole breakdowns in their cars. Like, did you plan, like, I'm gonna cry at 3:30? Did you plan that? Like it's kind of, you know. But I'm not saying that everybody has done. It hasn't been sincere sincere, you know, it just, it's kind of weird.

A (10:43)

No, it made me laugh because we've talked about that before. I mean, I cried on social media before for sure. But sometimes you see these videos and it's like you did have to get out the camera in that moment. You did, you know, press play and then this is just a weird thing. So all that to say authenticity on social media really does come across, you know, it comes across and that's what reaches and it's super cool to see.

C (11:08)

I also want to say this. I think that, you know, on social media things can become marketable. Like I think mental health and therapy and self awareness, it can become so trendy where it starts to be like not authentic how we, how we display it to the world. And they're actually gifts that, you know, that the Lord has given us to make us better people. But I think that when people see that it can get us views, I think that it can be abused. And so I think one of the things I was trying to make, you know, a joke out of it, but I think what, what I was trying to communicate was no, use these things for the glory of God so that you could be better people, so that you could be better disciples, better husbands, better fathers. And don't do it for clicks. Yes, you know, because when you do it for clicks, it kind of loses its power. And so that is your reward, the clicks. But it's not, and it's not sustainable.

A (12:06)

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D (13:39)

And being performative, because that's what it is, is exhausting.

C (13:43)

It is.

D (13:44)

You know what I'm saying? To try to be something other than what you are is tiresome. And which means that you might not actually have the stamina to maintain it, lest you lose your mind, be burdened with anxiety, all this stuff. And I think you also, you undercut the way God wants to use the actual you. And so it's like the Lord has given you the parents that he gave you, the genes that he gave you, the context. Like, even your history is minist. And so how you were cultivated is what God wants to use. And I think we deny that aspect of our stories and of our ministry and on God's hand on our life, when we become something that we actually weren't cultivated to be. Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

A (14:23)

Yeah, that's a good one.

D (14:23)

It's just like, you know, me coming from St. Louis, me being raised by a single parent, like, the voice I have, the texture, like, all of that is ministry too. Not just the content, also the context through which the content comes from.

C (14:36)

That's a good word. Even your history is ministry. You gotta put that in one of your books. You ready?

D (14:40)

It's in a talk on YouTube.

A (14:42)

So good.

C (14:42)

That's a good word.

A (14:43)

I love how y' all hype each other up. It's like the best thing.

C (14:46)

If it's good, it's good. You feel me?

A (14:48)

It's good. It's good. I feel you. That was really good.

D (14:50)

Amen.

A (14:51)

That's this podcast called Whoa, that's good. That's how we have people like, whoa, that's really good. You know, it's so interesting because I think I'm kind of thinking if I want to say this or not, but this morning I actually got on social media, and one of the first things I saw was this girl basically it was like a 10 slide post and it was like things that my ADHD, like ways that it, you know, interferes with my daily life or whatever. And it was so interesting because all 10 of them were like things that I do, you know, and it wasn't anything that I would have thought was bad or whatever. But then it makes you think like, huh, like okay, is that weird that you do that? And it just makes you think about yourself so much. And I know that some of y' all talk about a lot is that there's so many, not just influencers, but pastors and preachers out there preaching so many like self messages. And so it's just interesting because on one hand it's like, yes, we do need to be confident in who we are. We need to be confident in our story, our personality, all that matters. But then there is this like line that's crossed where we get obsessed with ourselves and how do you discern the two and not just like, I don't know, take all that self talk in.

C (16:05)

That's a good question.

D (16:07)

You wanna go first?

C (16:08)

You go first. Cause I have a lot to say, but I feel like you have probably.

A (16:13)

This doesn't have to be a buttoned up answer. We can talk about this for a hot minute.

D (16:17)

I'll just say that I, if you go in on this, I'll just say this. I think having a biblical theology around sin and the human condition already puts you on alert to how self centered you naturally are, you know, So I think if you look at Genesis 3 and you see that, oh, you eat of the fruit, you'll be like God, you gonna be special, you're gon to be important, you're going to be all knowing, you're going to be wise, which is a lie, but they believe it. And so we all, I think, exist on this narcissistic spectrum where we do everything with ourself at the center. I think even just knowing that, just acknowledging if I'm a sinner, then I'm self centered, then that allows you to be more watchful of what you listen to, what you read and how you think so that you can catch all the places in your life where you're actually repeating the pattern of Adam. And so I think just knowing that theology will help.

C (17:11)

And I think, and I think I want to just talk about the preachers who actually fall into, you know, the mode of doing that because I think if we're just honest, it is a huge temptation not to give people what they want like that or to give People what they want to give people what they want.

A (17:30)

That's true. Yeah, so true.

C (17:31)

I mean, like parents deal with that with, you know, giving their kids junk food because they want it, you know, And I think when the Bible talks about itching ears, I think that's exactly what it is. It's like they've accumulated teachers for themselves. It's like the people actually want it, want it. And so this is the reason why you see faithful teachers for years and their message change because that's what they think they have to do to fill seats. And so I think what God wants to do, I think God wants to raise up a generation of Bible teachers and just leaders who have integrity and who will listen to him first and not the people. Because if you are a leader, I think one thing that you have to understand is people cannot tell you you what they need. God has to tell you, you know, and so I think that we just need people who would just be obedient to God and not feel so much pressure from people where you are happy with the Amens, but you're actually not feeding anybody's soul.

D (18:29)

Can I say something?

A (18:30)

Yes, you can.

D (18:31)

Because Paul tells Timothy, keep a close watch on your life and your doctrine. And, and I said this in our podcast tour, people are preaching what they themselves are. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. And so if you are a communicator, I'm not even talking about the consumer. If you're a communicator or a content creator, keeping a close watch in your heart means all the places in my life where I'm self centered, where there's selfish ambition, where there's pride, I have to put it to death, I have to guard myself from it because it's gonna come through in my articulation. It's just, you can't, like I, we think we're good at hiding. We're not actually that good, we're not that tight. And so if you reading a text and all you see is you, you, you, you, you, where you're moving to application quicker than you move to exegesis, that's crazy to me. So that, but that means that's how you live, that's how you are. And so if you put it to death here, like it'll reflect your teaching, gonna be dope.

A (19:31)

Yeah, that is such good advice. That's. That kind of like speaks to something we've been talking about recently because I've been and I guess like preaching publicly for a lot of years now because I was like, 19 when I started. I'm like, 27. But this year particularly has been so busy and so full just having the two kids and then being pregnant and filming and all that stuff. And I felt like my messages. I started hearing myself as I was preaching, talking about things that were more of a personal thing that I was going through than maybe what they need to hear is what I need to hear in, like, a helpful way, you know, not in, like, a way that I'm like, oh, I'm being really authentic in a way that I'm probably over sharing because I haven't worked this out yet with the Lord. And I'm processing this on a stage.

D (20:21)

Yeah, it's like a diary.

A (20:23)

Yes. And I had never really done that before, and I didn't even mean to. But then after, I, like, felt so in my head about it, like, I didn't feel confident. I was like, oh, man. Like. And we've been talking about that because I'm like, how do you, like, preach when you are going through something privately that you haven't worked out yet? And I was like, maybe I just talk about something completely different than what I'm going through. But that feels hard because so much of my energy is on that. So I'm sitting here in my authenticity and maybe even oversharing on this to ask you, how do y' all do that? Like, how do you get on a stage when you're walking through something and not let it bleed into what you're sharing?

D (21:06)

I'm curious when you would overshare, as you call it. It. Was that during extemporaneous moments, or was that in the manuscript itself?

A (21:16)

More? I feel like it was. What do you think?

B (21:23)

I think you would have, like, a. A certain thing you'd be teaching on. I feel like you would be so, like. Like that. Like the hypocrite part we talk about.

A (21:30)

Uhhuh.

B (21:31)

So, like, when Jesus calls the Pharisees hypocrites, so the.

A (21:35)

The.

B (21:35)

The word that he uses, it translates more so to actors than, like, hypocrites of, like, you're hypocritical because you do this, but you don't live it out because you talking about actors on the stage is what the word translates to, which is like. Which is why he says that their rewards not in heaven, but he talks about the other people. And I feel like you would kind of.

A (21:55)

Yeah, what I was sharing, I was sharing that. But what I had been wrestling with in my personal life was not letting myself ever become that. Because right now we're in a season where we're filming a show, and when the camera's on, whether you mean to or not, you act better, you know? And I was like, I don't. Lord, I don't want to get that way in my walk with you. Like, I don't want to know how to turn it on, you know, because the Pharisees knew what to say. And that verse was so convicting to me. I read it, and it was like, Jesus said, do what the Pharisees say, but don't live the way that they live. And I was like, oh, I never want to get to that. Like, I never want to just be saying the right thing and not really walking it out. So I had been wrestling with this in my own life, and then I started preaching about it, and I felt like when I was preaching about it, when other people were hearing it, it was coming off really harsh. Like, as if I'm calling all these people hypocrites. And I'm like, I'm really not saying anyone is. I'm just saying I don't want to be like that. But I think because I was so into my own prayer life about it and keeping my heart clean from it, it was coming out with a passion that might have sounded harsh or judgmental. That didn't mean. Because it was more just really personal.

C (23:14)

You've been too similar.

D (23:15)

Yeah, I asked that question because it's a really practical question. Because, for example, I had to teach at a conference maybe a month ago, and I stepped away from the manuscript to try to teach the gospel, but I kind of just harped on sin and never got to a cross like that. And when I stepped away, like, I think I was. We was at dinner the next day, and I was really mad. I was like, why did I not preach the Bible? Like, why I didn't preach the gospel? Like, I know the gospel, and I was praying about it. Like, why didn't that come out of me? Why did. What came out of me was more harsh shaming. And I really sensed the Lord say, because that's how you've been talking to yourself all week. So what came out of you is what was in you. But it also was easy to come out because you stepped away from the manuscript. And so that isn't to say that we shouldn't be extemporaneous. It means that. That I think our prep has to be tighter.

A (24:09)

That's true.

D (24:10)

So that if we're prepping in a.

A (24:11)

Certain cause, this was one of my least prep.

D (24:14)

There we go.

A (24:14)

Because of how busy the season one felt. So.

D (24:17)

So it just, it just flows over where when the prep is tighter and the process with God and the Holy Spirit is tighter, then you're able to come and present in a more balanced, more edifying way. And so I really do think it's all the work that goes into preparing for the sermon rather than the sermon itself. That's what I found.

A (24:37)

That is good.

B (24:44)

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A (26:14)

That's really good because that's so true. Because I used to prep so much, probably to a fault like over prep because I wanted it to be whatever and then now I'm like, oh, I don't have that kind of space mentally and nor do I even Think some of that was healthy, but I do. It does need to be more buttoned up and I need to work those things out with the Lord because I'm like, am I still talking about this from a place of my own fear? Because I'm like, I was like, lord, don't let me go there. Don't let. So I'm preaching it from a different tone, you know, and so that is so good. I'm glad we talked about that. It's interesting. You talked about the pastors who are preaching things that they know people want to hear. And a lot of that, that is mostly like things that puff you up or things about yourself. And there is like a well known pastor at one point and me and a bunch of people were listening to them and I was like, I'm just not, not growing from this. This is not good teaching. It's. It's so about the self. It's so about me. I'm. You're never hearing about God. Like, it's just every sermon was so me focused and there would be like one verse in it, you know, but you could tell that verse was only to like prove his point that he was trying to make about the person. And I started sharing this with a friend. She really, she's like, I haven't noticed that. And then she started noticing it. She was like, you know, I just, she literally said, she's like, I don't think I know the Bible enough to know. Like, she was like. Because I wouldn't have even noticed that. So let's talk about that for a little bit. Because there's. On one hand we have pastors not having like conviction what they're preaching, but other hand, we have consumers who don't know the word, so they can't discern what's good.

D (27:47)

Yeah, I love this conversation.

C (27:49)

Yeah, yeah, we were just talking about.

D (27:51)

Literally talked about this 10 minutes ago.

C (27:52)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were talking about this on the plane. We were talking about, you know, we talked about this a lot. You know, I think there is a generation of believers who are not biblically literate, who don't know how to read the Scriptures contextually, who are not taught to ask the scriptures good questions. And so, and I think what's, what's scary, I think social media is giving so many other people platforms who are teaching the Bible, who actually don't know how to read the Bible themselves. And so whatever questions that they come up with in their own mind, they think it's from the Lord because they don't really Know, and this is not me shaming, I'm just saying, like, I do think that biblical literacy is a very, very important. Like it's a problem, you know, in the church. And so this is the reason why I think that, you know, if everybody can go to seminary, I do think that it would be beneficial for churches to start doing hermeneutics courses. Just basic study of the scriptures, learning about the person of and how he exists, learning about the triune God of scripture, learning how it's saved by grace through faith. When you read a scripture, asking yourself good questions like who's writing the text? Who is he writing the text to? Why is he writing the text? Just simple basic hermeneutics, I think, will give us a good framework and we can identify when somebody is teaching the Bible wrong. Because what good Bible teaching does, it just doesn't equip us to be Christians, but it actually teaches us how to read the Bible away from the church when we're at home. And so I think that's what the church needs.

A (29:30)

That's really good. So it's not just like, you know, leading a church that's dependent on you or on the Sunday morning, but who's really ready for the word.

C (29:38)

Because a good leader is not going to point you to himself. A good leader is going to point you to Christ and train you how to hear his voice through the scriptures yourself. That's what a good leader does.

A (29:50)

It's really good.

D (29:51)

Yeah, I think I just wanted to read this text because I think it's a text that everyone should know, which is 2 Timothy 3, 16. It says all scripture is breathed out by God and profitable, helpful, good for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man and woman of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. And I, I think, I think there are a lot of hindrances to biblical literacy. One, it's an ancient book. It's confusing. It's like, I don't know what he's talking about. I don't know why all these genealogists are here. I don't know why the priest got blood on his thumb. So what am I supposed to do with that? I think reading this ancient book can feel intimidating because it doesn't seem to make sense to us. I think also there's a sense where our sin can get in the way. And so I'm less likely to read a mirror if I don't like what it's gonn me. Right? And so I think us even like Acknowledging. I'm afraid of conviction. I'm afraid of what the responsibility that's going to come from knowing what God has to say about my life. But I think if you just rest on the fact that this is God's words to us to equip us for every good work, I think that incentivizes why this is worthy to be studied. That's one, two. If it is also God's word and God breathed, that means you need God to understand it. So, yes, it is an ancient book, but it's also a spiritual book, meaning you don't actually have the natural resources to understand what it says anyway. That should actually relieve you. It simply means, oh, I just got to pray and maybe the Lord will help me. You know what I'm saying? So I think. I think it's worthy of our work. It's worthy of our time, especially if we want to be faithful.

A (31:44)

It's so true. And it's amazing how, like, speaking of prep, my dad always says, I wish everyone had to preach a sermon because it would get them in the Word.

D (31:53)

Oh, yeah, it would.

A (31:53)

It's so true. Because recently, since that last time, you know how, like, if you do something one time and then you're like, okay, don't want to do that again. So you're like, I'm, like, repositioning my heart, getting ready for this next message. It has been so fun to study the Word, because this is so exciting. And I started reading about John the Baptist, and, you know, I've read about John the Baptist a thousand times, but then you read it in a new context, and God will show you, like, one thing that you get so excited about. Like, it's, like, so fun, you know, to have revelation and God to give you that revelation and, you know, to be that, you know, that it's from him. And I'm, like, calling Christian. I'm like, did you know? You know? And it's like, that's, like, the best feeling, you know, because it gets you in the Word. You're bringing other people in, and it's just. It's fun to study. It's worthy of studying. It's fun to study. You're gonna find things that you didn't real, that you didn't know. There's going to add more context to. It's awesome. One thing I heard y' all say is, like, y' all feel really passionate about not just being disciples, but making disciples. I love that because I think a lot of people in the church are totally okay with just being a disciple or being discipled, but have not even considered that, like, they're the one to go and make disciples speak a little bit to that person.

C (33:07)

What's crazy is, early, we were also talking about discipleship, and I was talking about a guy I'm discipling. She's talking about a young woman that she's discipling. And Jackie says something dope. I'm gonna misquote her, but she said. She said something along the lines of.

D (33:24)

I'll correct you with respect.

C (33:25)

Yeah, she. She said something along the lines of, like, you know, when. When the person that you're discipling have the. The Holy Spirit, like, it's like, like literally guiding them, and like the Holy Spirit is guiding them, and you're just kind of shaping how the Holy Spirit is kind. And I think when we think about discipleship and even how she talked about how the Bible can be confusing, that's one thing that we've learned is, you know, you might have a young believer who don't understand the Bible, but the Holy Spirit is shaping their hearts. And maybe they don't even have language. And so because you went down the road that they going down, you could say actually what the Lord is showing you that you don't have language for. It says it right here in Mark 10. Let me teach you. And so now they're not just learning a book, but they're learning experientially. And I think that's the role of discipleship. It is not to be the Holy Spirit. It's to help shape people, you know, with the Word. And so I think that's one thing that I've been learning in this season. It's not trying to be perfect or trying to be God, but it's. I think God just wants us to come alongside people and help grow them in the faith by pointing them to the scriptures.

A (34:35)

That's cool.

D (34:35)

Yeah. I think discipleship is such a big thing for us and the church. One, it's a command. Matthew 28, go, therefore, make disciples of all nations, teaching them to obey all that he's commanded. But I think our entire marriage, our parenting, our podcast, our ministry is the fruit of discipleship. You know what I'm saying? Like, I remember coming to the faith in 2008 at 19, and I didn't understand anything about. I wasn't raised in a Christian home, so I didn't know how to read the Bible. I didn't know how to pray. I didn't know how to fast. I didn't know what Ecclesiology was. Or Christology or atonement. I did. I didn't know anything. I just knew that the Lord saved me and I loved him. I didn't know how to love him well, though, you know. And so it wasn't until I went to a church where they started to even use that word discipleship, and that you actually need someone to help you love Jesus. Where I started to love him more, know him more, understand him more, that it's like, I want to do that same thing for other people because I know what it's like to not know what the heck you doing. You know what I'm saying? And so I think because our life has benefited so much, my knowledge of God, everything, it's like, I have to pass that along. I have to.

A (35:54)

It's so good.

C (35:55)

And I would just add, I think a lot of times people over complicate discipleship and they, you gotta do a.

D (36:02)

Bible study every two days with scrolls.

C (36:05)

No, you know, like Matthew 28, it says, God, therefore make disciples. And it can really be translated as, as you go. Like, as you go and do life, just bring somebody along with you. And I think about the scripture in John, when Jesus is walking past the river and John the Baptist is standing there with his disciples, and they say. He says, look, they go, the Lamb of God. And they begin to follow Jesus. And Jesus turns and he turns around and says, like, what are you seeking? Yeah, like, basically, why y' all following me? You know? And they said, jesus, Rabbi. They say, rabbi, where are you standing?

D (36:39)

Saying.

C (36:40)

And essentially in the Greek, he's not. They're not saying, we want to see what your house look like. They're basically saying, jesus, show us how you live. That's all they're saying. And so then Jesus says, follow me. And in following him, like they. He just did life. He did life. And he taught, you know, when he. When he needed to. But I think in the. In Jesus's day, that's how rabbis notice how they didn't say Jesus when the next conference or Jesus when. When the next Bible study or when you doing a sermon, when the next mount. Right, right. You know, know Jesus, like, rabbi, like, teach us by showing us how you live. And I think it's. It's a powerful thing when you could just invite somebody into your life and allow them to see the gospel lived out in front of them.

D (37:23)

In weakness.

C (37:23)

In weakness.

A (37:24)

That is so true. I'm so thankful for that personally. Like, I had. We both had so many great, you know, mentors and people who kind of like took us in under the wing and invited us into their homes. And I'm like, I don't know who I would be without going into those homes and sitting. One of my mentors, they lived in Alabama. It was about an hour 30 minutes from where I was living. And I would go there every Saturday and I'd sit on their front porch with them in their little rocking chairs, and they would just teach me the word and they'd teach me about prayer, and I'd ask them all my questions. And that was some of the most pivotal times of my spiritual journey. It is time for fall, y'.

C (38:07)

All.

A (38:07)

That means cooler mornings, busier days, and all the activities between back to school kids else and chasing my girls around, I've got to stay on my A game. And Element is a big part of that. Hydration isn't just about water. Your body actually needs the right mix of electrolytes to avoid fatigue, brain fog, or those random leg cramps that show up at the worst times. And you want to hear something wild? Research actually shows that most of us actually need two to three times more sodium than the government recommends to feel our best. That's why Element works so well. I personally love the raspberry salt. I love the watermelon. It is so good, bright, refreshing, and just. Just hits the spot. It's great for mid morning or personally, I love to drink it as a little afternoon pick me up. Christian also loves the sparkling element and black cherry lime, especially on the go. He is obsessed. Since adding element into my routine, I have definitely felt more focused, more myself, and all around just better. And so it didn't matter if you're training for something big or just trying to keep up with the fall rush, Element has your back. I drink an element every day. I am obsessed. It honestly makes me feel so good and makes me feel so hydrated. I am definitely prone to getting dehydrated with because I don't typically drink a lot of water. But Element inspires me to drink my water because I love the way it tastes. And so it's just a huge win for me. So get your free Element sample pack with any purchase@drinkelement.com Whoa. Try element totally risk free. If you don't like it, they'll refund your order, no questions asked. That's drink elemenT-R-I n k l m n t.com Whoa. And I always think about this because, you know when you see a new influencer pop up who's like Christian influencer, and people are so harsh and like, critical of them. And I'm always like, I always try to reach out to them and say, like, is there anything. I understand this road. I understand where you're at. It's so crazy that you probably didn't even know that the neck. Like, in a amount of time, a small amount of time, you'd be having millions of followers. Like, there's anything you ever need. Never hesitate. And I've gotten to some of the best conversations and like, really, really cool conversations because I always think, man, like, that was me, you know, that was. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know what I was. I'm so young. I was you. I was doing the best I could with what I knew and what I had. But I had so much to learn. And people let me into their home and taught me. People called me and people were available for me. And I just feel like so many times like, we're so judgmental of other believers who, like, don't know what they're doing. It's like, don't be as judgmental. Like, help them, draw them in, Teach them, be a friend to them. And I don't know that that was something super helpful for me because I don't know where I'd be without that.

D (40:40)

Amen.

B (40:41)

I probably fall into the more judgment. Judgmental category.

A (40:43)

Yeah, you're. He is the judgmental. I'm always like, I'm reaching out to them. We're gonna be best friends. They're gonna be at our house. So you just know that.

B (40:51)

Well, kind of teetering to that line. My next. The question I wanted to ask y' all spoken to this really well and articulated it better than I would have ever thought. But y' all kind of speaking towards false teaching. And something you said was really interesting. You talked about how when you call it out, doing it to where people that listen, you give them their own discernment to go from there. Because I think you'll call that heresy hunters, which I loved it cuz I was. But like, yeah, people that build platforms on calling other people out.

A (41:24)

Why don't you just say how annoyed you get when you speak about judgmental? Because in the past, you have made comments on people's YouTube channels.

B (41:33)

Only two seven years. I've commented on two specific things and I don't think the person even knew it was me because they thought it was. Oh, okay. I bet this really is Christian Hoof. I was like, it actually is me. But yeah, because people will come at you and it's like a 20 minute thing on what you're. It's like what Sadie didn't say. Or it's what she did say. It's what she didn't say.

A (41:56)

Yeah. Picking a part of his friend or something.

B (41:59)

But then all the comments are like, oh, this is so helpful. Thank you. And I'm just like, who?

A (42:03)

One thing we have seen is like, if I do one thing that's questionable, it's like all of these micro influencer, like church pastors will come at me and be like, this is why you shouldn't listen to her because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, man, that's so sad in the church. It's so divisive because I'm just like.

B (42:21)

How, how do people, they're trying to.

A (42:24)

Like, basically knock it down. But how is that helpful? Yes.

B (42:27)

Well, because I think there's a way to do it. But a lot of the ways people do it, it's. It's like divisive.

C (42:32)

It's not. I know you got a lot to say. I got a lot.

B (42:35)

It's not help, it's not beneficial. It's not.

D (42:37)

We're going through this right now. Yeah. Can I just lay out something?

A (42:43)

Lay it out.

D (42:44)

Like two minutes.

C (42:44)

Go ahead, babe.

D (42:45)

Just two things. Two minutes.

A (42:47)

Open the word.

D (42:47)

Two things. I think when I. When I. So what you're referencing is that I talked about how in Ephesians, Paul does say to take no part in the unfruit. This is ephesians 5. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. And so I think a lot of content is using that as a framework to say if it's wrong, if, if it's off, if it's dark, I have the right to expose. The thing is that we need not take that verse from the first verse before. That is, therefore be imitators of God as beloved children and walk in love. So even the way you expose should be in submission to love. And that's what I see lacking. That's one too. I think Jude also shows us that exposure can also look like giving people a framework that isn't just pointing out the person you think is false or pointing out the person you think is an error, but giving a context that people, you don't have to baby feed people discernment. And so you, when you look at Jew's letter, he says, I meant to write to y' all about salvation, but, you know, I'mma write to y' all about these people over here. Saying that God's grace is licensed for sin, and he never even tells them who he's referencing, but he gives them all these Old Testament examples of what they look like so they would notice them.

A (44:02)

That's cool.

D (44:03)

And I think taking both of those into consideration, I think a lot of what's happening on social media is not authentic love. I don't think it's authentic concern for the body. I think it is selfish ambition and envy masquerading in religious formats. I completely believe that. Now, that's not to say that's everybody. I think it's a lot of it. Because I just. I don't know. I think it's ironic that y' all got an ad placed in between every critique. And I know what YouTube checks look like, so I, I, I know, I know what's happening here. Yeah.

C (44:34)

Cause we just gotta keep it a buck. We just. That means real.

A (44:38)

Yeah.

C (44:39)

Right.

D (44:40)

Not the animal.

C (44:41)

That, that. There are some people, and this is not to gash you. This is. This is a compliment. There are some people who God has gifted with the ability to articulate the gospel. And your gifts have made room for you. It has given you followers, and followers give you access to resources. You can call respected leaders to have them on your podcast, and they'll say, yes, yes. And that's a result of faithfulness. There are some people who do not have that gift. The only way they can obtain what you have is by calling people like you out. That's why they do it.

A (45:20)

True.

C (45:22)

And so there are people that will never have lots of views by teaching the gospel, and they're mad about it. And so they have to sit and wait for you to do something that seems to off to. To. To get views off of your name, which is lovelessness and which is. Which is sin. And so I think that's what we see a lot of.

A (45:43)

Yeah, go.

D (45:45)

But also the Lord is kind and sovereign, and he uses criticism to disciple us.

A (45:52)

True.

D (45:52)

He uses criticism to prune us. The scripture says, woe to you when all men speak well of you, for so did your ancestor do the false, false prophets. You know? And what I found, I am. Yeah, It's. It's content out as we speak that I am a secret lesbian, that Preston is a liar. All the stuff, it's. It's like, intentional in my DMs, right. I'm literally like, people are in my DMs right now telling me to repent because someone put out content that I am X, Y, and Z, and, And I often have to say, you know, Lord, you're giving me the opportunity to share in your sufferings. You are God and Christ, and they said you had a demon, so why should I think I should be exempt from. From slander? And then two, it's the Lord also knows I have the. I. I have an idol at times of wanting to be liked, wanting to be accepted, wanting to be valued and appreciated. And so these moments often push me back on my face to say, you see me, you love me, you know me. Cool you. So he uses it. It hurts, it sucks, but he uses it. And so at the same time that they need to repent. At the same time, the Lord is doing something good in us through it.

C (47:11)

And I'll also just add too, to. To just ask ourselves, like, God, what is it you're. Because I think what you just said is God also testing us. Like, what is it that you're trying to teach me about me, you know, and how are you trying to grow me? Like, when, you know, 1st Peter 4:12 says, don't be surprised when the fiery darts come upon you to test you, as though something was strange was happening to you.

D (47:36)

It's the strange thing. It's always strange to me. What happened?

A (47:40)

How did that happen?

C (47:41)

Jesus literally says, don't think it's strange. The same thing happened to the Son of Man. You know what I'm saying? But he said, but rejoice insofar as you share in Christ's suffering. And so I think God, he's a sovereign God who allows all things to happen for a reason. And you know the saying, what? Don't kill you, make you stronger, is actually true. It's like you become better because of it. You become wiser, you become more loving, all the things. And so pass the test, Will.

A (48:10)

It's so cool because, like, whenever you hear. I feel used to, I would read things like don't think it's strange, or do not be afraid and all that stuff. As if, like, oh, I just shouldn't think it's strange, or I shouldn't be afraid. But I love that God says that. And Jesus says that because he's like, you're gonna think it's strange. Yeah, you are. It is strange. But don't even think it's strange, because I'm telling you right now, this is why. Don't be afraid. I'm telling you that because you're gonna be afraid, because what's about to happen is gonna be scary. But you don't have to be afraid, because I'm gonna be with you. And so it's not that, like, oh, you're so wild for thinking it's strange, or you're so. It's like, no, you're human. So this is what's gonna happen. This is how you're gonna feel. But take heart. I've overcome it, you know?

C (48:50)

That's why he told us.

A (48:51)

I've been through it. So I love that context of looking at things. Like, it's not so much of a do not. Cause you shouldn't. It's like, do not, because I got this, you know, And. And it's so true. I do think sometimes we throw too much of that out. It's like people say, oh, just don't pay attention to the comments. There are some times where you do need to pay attention to what people are saying, because there is something that it can teach you or it can grow you and. Or even just being okay with being misunderstood and learning how to do that. Like, today I posted this reel, and it was just like a trendy. Like a trendy trend. I get. What's the word? Like, the audio. The audio was trending. And it was like, basically say, you know, I really have thick skin when it comes to. And my mom was like, you don't have thick skin.

D (49:35)

I saw that y' all got, like, a coffee cup.

A (49:36)

And I was like, yeah, I really don't have thick skin. And Christian commented was like, if you don't have thick skin, then I'm toast, because I'm done. So I'm done. So. Because I actually do have really thick skin. And Christian is learning how to have thick skin. But I was. I was joking to Christian, like, yeah, well, this thick skin was grown. You know, like, this is. I used to actually be so sensitive. Like, when I was a teenager, my parents, like, call me, what a sensitive sue just to make me mad, to make me be like, I don't want to be sensitive because I was so sensitive. Comments. And now I'm actually not at all. I have grown thick skin. But that was, like, because of walking it out. That was because of the. All the comments and the things and the this and the that. And it was funny. Someone even said to me this week, because this has just been a crazy week with the show coming out. They're like, oh, did you see that article? I was like, yeah, I thought it was really good. They're like, well, did you see the part that it said? And I was like, oh, yeah. I was like, I just. I just read over it because it's like, I don't. Which used to maybe that would have been. I fixated on too the one negative thing. But now I don't even, that's not even hitting me because I know who I am. Your teen adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained, one who navigates life on the earth own terms effortlessly. They do not always show up on.

D (50:56)

Time, but when they arrive, you notice.

A (50:59)

An individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist. New Teen, the new fragrance by Miu.

D (51:11)

Miu, defined by you and in a generation. I was telling Preston this today. I was like, I think the Lord is helping us or training us to train others on how to do ministry in this generation, right? And so the Bible says in the last days, love will wax cold. And so there is a increase in criticism because there's a decrease in love. And I think we have to have soft hearts and thick skin to be faithful. And I'm even thinking about my kids. I'm like, the generation they coming into is going to be even more scary. I don't, I, I have no idea what it will be like for my children to be Christians, but at least God is helping me develop a framework of how to suffer with well, so I can train them. So when y' all get, when y' all try to tell the truth on these campuses and they, they might be hanging y' all by then, I don't know, hanging is a bit much, but you know what I'm saying, Like, I, I, I just feel like the Lord is training us so we can train.

C (52:11)

I really think that another thing is I, I think, you know, we talked about this before, I think on our podcast, and I said, man, if I ever became a pastor, which I, I pray the Lord never tells me to do that. But one of the things that I would do for this generation is social media, your training. Because I think with the age of social media and the time that we live in, we develop such strong parasocial relationships where people who comment on you, they do that because they think that they have access or look at your life that they actually don't have. And in reality, social media is like that sign in the rearview mirror. Objects in this mirror seem closer than they appear. You think that you have access and you think you see me more than you actually see me. So the Bible actually does tell us to judge you one another. It says that we would know a good tree by the fruit it produced. So it does tell us to Examine each other fruit. The thing is, you're trying to examine my fruit through a phone, and you really cannot properly. And so what we have to do is that we have to stress the importance of a local community, and we have to learn how to just pray for people online because you do not have all the information that you think you know. So if I was a pastor, I, like, I wouldn't be online searching for my members, but if I see something, I will correct it. It's why you. Why you commenting on Sadie Robinson's post when you don't even want to fold the chairs out the service? Hello. Like, why? Like, you don't even love people in our community. Well, like, how are you trying to, like, correct people online? And you're not even a good sister to the people in your local context.

D (53:49)

You left before the benediction and you got something to say about Sadie.

C (53:52)

Roger. It's like, we have to have. Have the right priorities in place.

A (53:57)

It's true.

C (53:57)

It is our home. It's God, then it's our home. Then it's our local community and social media. We have to take what's beneficial and leave what is not.

A (54:05)

That's true. There is something, too. Like, you've. Whenever I wrote who are you following? I wanted to write a book about social media because I didn't feel like people had advice for how to navigate social media in a Christian context. But more than just a book or that, like, you need to be pastored in it. You really do. And I think that's the thing. Like, whenever. So what got me. People all talking. I think we talked about this at one point because I did a little dance with my sisters, and it was a very innocent dance, but to a Beyonce song. It was the country song she did, and we were doing, like, the line dance. Okay. I had no idea.

D (54:44)

I knew that.

A (54:45)

Literally had no idea that what was about to happen on my social media from posting that. I was so innocent the way that I did it. I was just like, oh, this is so cute. This ain't Texas. Oh, my gosh. I got destroyed, dude. Like, it was so bad. Yeah. Okay, well, then that was what surprised me. It was all these, like, youth pastors posting my video and adding all the commentary as to why their students shouldn't follow me and blah, blah. And it's like, then people start tagging me and pictures with, like, the red flag emoji over my face, like, I'm red flag now. It was so crazy.

C (55:23)

I don't even. Oh, wow.

A (55:24)

And I was just like, Whoa. Well, then I ended up deleting the post. Not because I actually thought what I did was wrong, but I deleted the post because it was causing such a division.

D (55:33)

Divisive.

A (55:34)

Yeah. Like, people are like, why are Christians like this? This is horrible. What did she do? And then. And then the church coming out and the world's coming out, and it was, like, so crazy. And this is all in, like, a day. It had gotten, like, millions of views already. I was like, whoa, it was too much. So I deleted it. Then I made a story about it. But I was thinking about this, that I'm like, okay, to pastor. Well, in that situation, maybe what I did was wrong. Maybe we shouldn't listen to Beyonce. I shouldn't have done that. Whatever. To each their own how they feel about that and their own discernment. But to pastor a youth group through that would not be putting a red flag over me and saying, no one should listen to her. To pastor then would say, hey, let's talk about. Many of you follow Sadie. She, you know, is pretty and stuff, and she's listening to, like, secular music that I don't think is right. Like, you know, a conversation, you know, And I think that's the thing where it's like, it's good to pastor through those things. It's good to think about those things. It's good for me to ask myself, maybe I really should pay more attention to the voiceovers that I'm using and the songs that I'm using. Absolutely. But, like, as a pastor, I think that that should be more of a conversation and leading people through it. And the only reason I think you would do that on social media would be to get the likes and attention and following from someone else's in the church, which is sad.

C (56:51)

Yeah. And also, you about to say something.

D (56:54)

I was.

C (56:54)

You got it.

D (56:54)

You.

C (56:55)

You can go back last time.

D (56:56)

I was just gonna say, like James says, be slow to speak, be quick to listen, slow to anger. And I think there's an element of being slow to speak and, like, quick to listen that even has you consider this person's platform. Platform and the fruit that God is producing through them that can then temper your such a quick judgment. Does that make sense? Like, what has Sadie consistently been saying? Consistently been doing consistently. And that's not to gas you. I'm giving framework here. It's like, if there is a consistent pattern of faithfulness that has to be considered before you just say, no, we're not going to listen to her. Because what you could be doing is opposing A faithful witness for the cross in the earth. And I think the Lord will judge people like that. And I'm not even trying to be intense. I mean, like when we put stumbling blocks in between faithful witnesses and say, don't listen to them, when that might be the voice that they need to listen to, I just think that's unfair. I think it's unreasonable, and I think it's crazy.

A (58:03)

Well, I think that's the sad thing, because there are people tagging passion saying, you should take down all of her sermons because. But that's how extreme. And it's like, okay, so we should take off all of the sermons that I have preached out of obedience.

D (58:18)

You memorize the Bible, because I danced.

A (58:21)

To this same text, the Bible, you.

C (58:24)

Know, to your point.

A (58:25)

But that, but that's not just me. That's a lot of people. That's church leaders. It's like looking for one thing to go. Now it's cancelled.

C (58:34)

Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's what I was going to say, too. Kind of what Jackie said on the other side of parasocial relationships is people who think that they have a, a deeper access and, and, and a clear look at your life. But it also develops opinionated people who are just graceless because they don't have proximity to you. And so it's real easy to have grace with somebody that you actually do life with and you see them make, you know, and then it's way easier to say, don't listen to Sadie. Because I actually never talked to Sadie. I don't do life with her. And so I do think that we have to fight for grace. And I think the reality is, you know, the world is not going to let us live out our human humanity or make mistakes, or make mistakes. They're, they're just not. Or not even mistakes. Like, they're not going to have grace for us when the Bible is filled with men who made mistakes. Like, we're not going to. We're not going to, you know, cancel Peter for denying Jesus three times.

D (59:29)

But there's levels. There's levels to mistakes, right? There's levels. So it's like, you know, that might. What you went through might be equivalent to when I was on Twitter back in the. Today I posted a clip from Farakhan because he said something I thought was legitimate. I, I forgot, you know what I'm saying? I'm kind of. I was in a lot of white evangelical spaces, all the stuff. And I'm like, oh, I did post Farakhan. The way they lost Their mind, like, why would you. But in my mind, I'm like, what he said was true. I'm not affirming. I'm not affirming him. But I stepped back and was like, huh? I can see how that looks crazy. You know what I'm saying? But. But it's levels to it. It's not like I got on there smoking a blunt. Like, I wasn't out here wiling out. And I. I think there's this book that I always advocate for people to read, especially now, is called Theological no Finding the Right Hills to Die on, which is about theological triage.

A (60:29)

Yeah.

D (60:30)

What, like, what are the things, like, biblically, there are some things that, like, no, you are probably not a believer because you believe this. And there are some things, like, you know, I disagree with that, but we can continue to fellowship. There are other things. That is such a gray area. Should I go to church on Saturday or Sunday? It's like, we can fellowship, but we just disagree. Agree to disagree. I think if people had a theological triage, then they would see that not all matters deserve the same intense response.

A (60:59)

Yeah.

D (60:59)

You know, like, there are, like, we need to temper our responses based on, like, the degree of the offense.

C (61:04)

Because I think. I think also, too, what pastors and leaders have to start doing with themselves and then teaching the congregation is to help people to discern what is a sin issue and what is a wisdom issue. Now, what we.

A (61:17)

That's really good.

C (61:17)

Now, what we do, what we do as public leaders, I think that God does hold us to a moral standard, to be wise in how we steward our platform. But me making an unwise decision doesn't mean I'm in sin and doesn't mean that people should stop following me. And so there has to be a certain amount of grace given for wisdom issues and not sin issues. Right. And so, like, if. If congregations don't know how to distinguish the two, we'll be counseling faithful believers who are just being human, you know? And I think it's the difference between disobeying the Scriptures and then moving in a way that might lead a follower of yours astray or confuse somebody.

A (62:01)

I love that. Like, I've never heard it put like that. And that's so true, because I feel like even back to the sermon that I preached, I was like, oh, I didn't love how that came across. It's like, I have to give myself grace, too, knowing, like, it wasn't, like, a sinful thing. But I didn't prep very well, and I let my emotions you know, take over or whatever, but I can't live there, you know, and like cancel myself and say, well, I can't preach at the next place because, you know. And I heard Lisa Harper one time say she was like coming in for this event we were doing. And I knew she spoke the night before. I was like, oh, how'd it go? She's like, oh, it was bad. I was like, what? And she's like, oh, it was bad. She's like, I just, it was just my messages fell flat. Everything I tried to say wasn't funny. Yeah. And I never heard somebody say that before, like a preacher, like that. And, but she was just like, it's okay, you know, tonight's a new, new night. She's like, when I was driving here, I just prayed about it, received the grace of the Lord. I'm going tonight. We're preaching a new message. And I was like, that's so cool. Like you got to give yourself that grace, you know, and people do too to know that, hey, you're human. Like you're not always going to have the perfect discernment and you're not always going to use the best wisdom and you're going to do D sometimes and reshare something you might shouldn't have reshared or liked something you shouldn't have liked or dance to a song you shouldn't have danced to. But like, you got to keep going, you know, like there's more to the.

D (63:23)

Story because we are, we are learning out loud. Whereas some people can make unwise decisions or unhelpful or whatever, but it's, they, they're doing it with, with 10 followers or within a youth group or, you know what I'm saying, where the pushback isn't to the same degree, but we're, we're figuring, figuring it out publicly on some level, which when you listen to Crawford Loritz, he talks about how in leadership, the Lord puts people in leadership positions often to expedite sanctification. So because of the breadth and width of the platform, it means we have to tighten up on wisdom quicker than somebody that won't be held accountable as loud as us, you know, and so it's, it's cyclical. It's like it, it sucks, but it's, it's also like this is what it means to be a disciple and to be a leader accountable.

C (64:14)

Yeah, yeah. And I would just say too, I think two type of people get angry at stuff like that. I think self righteous people who, like, I think, I think it makes People feel good when they feel like another Christian is not being righteous. It makes them feel more righteous when we, you know. But I also think it's a lot of. It's a lot of idolatry. I think in a lot of times we, like, we get so disappointed in people because we desperately want them to be perfect like Jesus. And so we get so disappointed when somebody, humanity is shown. But it's just like, no, you're not Jesus. You're not. You're flawed. And so I'm going to make mistakes. And so I do think that people be like, like legitimately like, disappointed in the people that they follow. And your disappointment should not be that deep when you know that's true.

A (64:59)

Because that's the thing that was eye opening for me when that happened, because I was like, this is something that I really, I mean, yes, I can use more wisdom, but I don't feel like was horrible. But what happens in the day that I do really mess up? You know, like, what happens in the day when I just fall totally flat or just say something totally stupid? You know, hopefully that doesn't happen. I'm pursuing the Lord. I'll see. But I'm human. Like, I'm gonna fall. I'm gonna do stupid things. I do them all the time, actually. It's just not always on camera, you know, and so that just made me think. I was like, okay, well, if this happens now, what happens when, you know.

C (65:36)

I really do, you know, you know, I want you to remember, speak to it. Just remember, a lot of these people be fake mad. They don't even be mad for real. They just bored because it's Tuesday. And so they, in your comments, like, literally just like, you just. You feel like you a part of something in this comment section. And so, like one, you have to understand that it's not even real rage for a lot of these people. Some of it it is. Go, go on date night.

D (66:03)

It's channeled rage.

C (66:04)

Yeah, go go on date night with your husband and don't worry about that.

A (66:07)

It's true. Like, God will vindicate you about social media is. Is the most. The funniest mean comment will get the most likes. You know, like the most mad dramatic person is probably going to be at the top. So it's. It's so true.

D (66:20)

It is what it is.

A (66:21)

Well, y', all, I'm really glad we decided to do two podcasts because we can keep. We're gonna get to keep talking because everyone listening I know is excited for more of this conversation. So we are going to end now, but we have another one coming next week. We're going to be talking about relationship, friendships, marriage, all the different good things that you want to hear from the Perry. So come back next week for a whole new episode.