#1: Frameworks—The Invisible Structure Behind Every Great Idea

Summary

Why That Worked – Episode #1: Frameworks—The Invisible Structure Behind Every Great Idea

Presented by StoryBrand.ai

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In the inaugural episode of "Why That Worked", hosts Donald Miller and Kyle Reed delve into the pivotal role that frameworks play in the success of brands, trends, and products. The discussion is both insightful and practical, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of what frameworks are, why they are essential, and how to create and implement them effectively in various aspects of life and business.

1. The Genesis of the Podcast

Donald Miller and Kyle Reed initiate the conversation by explaining their motivation for launching the podcast. They recognized that their frequent discussions about the underlying reasons behind successful ventures held significant value not just for them but also for a wider audience. This realization sparked the idea to create a platform where they could systematically explore and dissect the strategies that lead to massive successes.

2. Defining Frameworks

A central theme of the episode is the definition and significance of frameworks. Kyle Reed offers a clear definition:

Kyle Reed [03:58]: "I would define frameworks as rules and boundaries... they are processes that you would take to streamline activity."

Donald Miller complements this by likening frameworks to mental maps or idea maps that guide individuals from their current state to desired goals, providing clarity and structure.

3. Personal Journeys with Frameworks

Both hosts share personal anecdotes illustrating how frameworks have been integral to their personal and professional lives.

• Kyle Reed’s Evolution: Kyle recounts his transition from a memoir writer to a framework creator. Initially unaware of the concept, he realized that the structured approaches he adapted from consulting at Accenture—a project management framework—paved the way for his success in marketing. This epiphany led to the creation of the StoryBrand Framework, which has since been foundational to his work.

  Kyle Reed [07:54]: "I went from using frameworks, discovering frameworks, being indoctrinated in frameworks, using them to write better, and then ultimately creating one."

• Donald Miller’s Awareness: Donald reflects on his interaction with a friend who struggled with executive coaching due to the absence of a structured framework, highlighting the transformative power of having a clear process.

  Donald Miller [10:10]: "I just said, what's your framework like? You have no... I can't define what you're doing."

4. The Ubiquity and Importance of Frameworks

The hosts emphasize that frameworks are omnipresent, subtly guiding various aspects of daily life without our conscious awareness.

Kyle Reed [11:07]: "You’re looking for... steps to creating a great Instagram post."

Examples cited include:

• Fitness Regimens: Kyle details his personalized workout framework for 2025, incorporating resistance workouts (R1, R2, R3), cardio (C), and hotel workouts (H), emphasizing the importance of consistency and structure.

  Kyle Reed [03:36]: "If you can turn whatever you're doing into a framework, you can help a lot more people because they can get their mind around it so much easier."

• Educational Models: Abraham Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and SWOT analysis are highlighted as universal frameworks that facilitate understanding and strategic planning.

• Business and Marketing: The StoryBrand Framework and Simon Sinek’s Golden Circle are discussed as pivotal tools that have propelled businesses and individuals into thought leadership by simplifying complex ideas into actionable processes.

5. Creating Effective Frameworks

Donald and Kyle outline actionable steps for listeners to develop their own frameworks:

1. Turn Ideas into Rules: Establish clear rules and guidelines that form the backbone of your framework. For instance, Kyle describes his workout regimen as a series of rules that dictate daily activities without the need for constant decision-making.

   Kyle Reed [16:03]: "The first rule would be turn it into rules."

2. Incorporate Best Practices: Ensure that each rule aligns with proven best practices to enhance the effectiveness of the framework. This approach not only streamlines processes but also maximizes outcomes.

   Kyle Reed [16:14]: "So step one, create a lead generator. Step two, qualify those leads."

3. Visual Representation: Use visuals to make the framework more comprehensible and memorable. Whether it’s a grid, an airplane analogy, or a seven-part grid from the StoryBrand Framework, visuals aid in the clear communication of structured ideas.

   Kyle Reed [16:55]: "Find a visual that you can walk people through... I created a seven-part grid that slowly comes to life."

6. The Cognitive Benefits of Frameworks

A fascinating aspect discussed is how frameworks save mental energy by providing predetermined paths to follow, thereby reducing the cognitive load. Kyle explains that the human brain is wired to conserve cognitive resources, making frameworks attractive as they offer "cheat codes" to streamline decision-making processes.

Kyle Reed [11:39]: "The brain burns between 6 and 800 calories a day... it's always trying not to burn those calories."

7. Frameworks as Tools for Thought Leadership

The episode underscores that frameworks are instrumental in establishing oneself as a thought leader. By systematizing ideas into structured processes, individuals can more effectively teach, scale, and share their knowledge. This not only enhances their credibility but also facilitates the growth of their ventures.

Kyle Reed [14:49]: "The difference between a smart person with ideas and a thought leader is frameworks."

8. Practical Applications and Daily Life Integration

Donald and Kyle highlight how frameworks seamlessly integrate into everyday activities. Whether it's driving to work, following a morning routine, or creating social media content, frameworks provide the necessary structure to achieve goals efficiently without exhaustive mental effort.

Donald Miller [12:27]: "Listen, you driving to work today, you drove on a framework."

9. Encouraging Listener Engagement with Frameworks

To conclude, the hosts encourage listeners to identify and develop their own frameworks. They suggest starting with simple, everyday processes—like getting children fed in the morning or making coffee—and formalizing these into step-by-step frameworks. This practice not only enhances personal efficiency but also unlocks unique perspectives that can be shared and scaled.

Donald Miller [21:05]: "Notice... you have some unique thing you figured out that you know. And one of the things that could be holding them back is they just have not put it in a framework yet."

Key Takeaways

• Frameworks Provide Clarity and Structure: They act as mental maps that guide individuals from their current state to desired outcomes, making complex processes manageable and actionable.

• Frameworks Enhance Efficiency: By formalizing routines and processes into structured guidelines, individuals save cognitive energy, allowing them to focus on other important tasks.

• Frameworks Facilitate Thought Leadership: Structured ideas are easier to teach, scale, and implement, establishing the framework creator as an authority in their field.

• Creating Your Own Frameworks: Start by defining clear rules, incorporating best practices, and using visuals to communicate effectively. Begin with simple daily tasks to build and refine your unique frameworks.

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In this episode, Donald Miller and Kyle Reed effectively lay the foundation for understanding the indispensable role of frameworks in achieving success. By sharing personal experiences, practical examples, and actionable steps, they empower listeners to harness the power of frameworks to elevate their personal and professional lives.

Transcript

[Donald Miller]

Foreign.

[Kyle Reed]

You're listening to the why that Work podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you've ever wondered why certain brands, trends, or cultural phenomena find success while others don't, you're in the right place. Every week, we unpack why something worked, then give you actionable insights that you can use in your own life. Now let's dive in with your hosts, Donald Miller and Kyle Reed.

Kyle Reed, the first episode of the why that Worked podcast is upon us.

[Donald Miller]

We're here on an awesome brand new set.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. One of the reasons we're doing this podcast and talking about best practices and why things worked is just because you and I are always having these conversations.

[Donald Miller]

And one of the things we realized is in these conversations about why things worked, that there's a lot of value in these conversations that. Yeah. Not just for me and you, but for other people to hear as well.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

You know, some of the things I've already written down as some ideas for some shows is like, why does TikTok work? Yeah. Have you thought about that?

[Kyle Reed]

I've thought about that from the perspective of social media a lot.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

Another way, immediately what's funny is immediately when you say, why does TikTok work? My brain starts going. Starts listing reasons. Right. And then you want to actually go to artificial intelligence, say, okay. And get all the stories out of that.

[Donald Miller]

Another one is, like, around the office. There's a lot of people here who are big fans of, like, Taylor Swift. So I'm asking myself, are we gonna.

[Kyle Reed]

Do a Taylor Swift episode?

[Donald Miller]

I think we should.

[Kyle Reed]

Really?

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. Well, it's a good time.

[Kyle Reed]

Do you even want to go there? There's so many landmines.

[Donald Miller]

I know. I feel like I should.

[Kyle Reed]

People are very touchy and very.

[Donald Miller]

Okay, you tell us what we're gonna talk about. Let's transition us out of that.

[Kyle Reed]

I'm willing to go, but I think we need mediators. I. And I don't know if you're gonna let us do it, but, you know, if we're gonna agree to it. Tattoos, because they're everywhere. Tattoos were like, I have a tattoo now. That was a totally, like, rebellious, crazy, like, why would you mark your skin permanently? And now they're totally socially accepted and all that kind of stuff. I'd love to do an episode on the history of them, what the utilitarian purposes of them were early on when it became a cultural identity. That stuff is gonna be, I think, really fun.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. We have other conversations with Top Gun.

[Kyle Reed]

Top Gun Maverick.

[Donald Miller]

Top Gun Maverick.

[Kyle Reed]

We've actually. We've put down a date on the calendar to record that one, so that one's a go.

[Donald Miller]

Today, though, what are we going to talk about?

[Kyle Reed]

Frameworks.

[Donald Miller]

Frameworks. Why should we start with frameworks, do you think?

[Kyle Reed]

I think because it is a frameworks, and the way I think we're going to be able to define them, hopefully, and the way we're going to talk about why they succeeded, actually explain why almost every episode that we're gonna record from here on out with what it's actually about. In other words, like Top Maverick, which I think we've greenlighted, is a framework. The movie itself is a framework. The roll up to the movie is a framework.

[Donald Miller]

I see what you're saying. Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

And I think once you understand what frameworks are, why they work, how they work, and maybe how to create them, you can change the world.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. And a lot of the stuff we're talking about seems like they follow a framework. And every episode is probably going to examine a framework.

[Kyle Reed]

It's the operating system that everything is operating on in terms of intellectual ideas. I would actually call a framework something like a mental map. It's a map that you can actually get your head around where you are, where we want to go, why we want to go there, how to get there. But it's almost like an idea map.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. I feel like that's one of your superpowers, is discovering frameworks for businesses, for yourself. Yeah, I know. For me, over the last 10 years, I've discovered. I didn't realize it. It was kind of like peeking behind a curtain going, oh, this is all just structured frameworks.

[Kyle Reed]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

People have just created a better process than I have. But kind of just that revelation of that over time, of realizing that everything I'm doing, whether it being being a dad, being a worker, being a better husband, whatever, even golfer, it's just around a framework.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

It's around a process.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

So I guess my question is, as I'm. As we're talking here, is how would you even define frameworks?

[Kyle Reed]

I would define frameworks. It's a great question and probably get some pushback from the audience or at least some midrash, but I would define frameworks as rules and boundaries.

[Donald Miller]

Go more. Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

So, you know, if you're gonna do like, P90X is a framework. Right. So the rules are for the next 90 days, you're gonna eat this, you're gonna get up, you're gonna do this workout on day one, this workout on day two. There are rules that maybe help us understand and Activate and execute virtually anything. In fact, I just put together my rules for 2025 workout. And there's three resistance workouts, R1, R2, R3, there's a cardi one that is symbolized with the letter C. And I put up a calendar, an entire 2025 calendar on my gym wall. And I've got to write R1, R2, R3, or C or H, which is I was in a hotel room on each of those days. Every single day of 2025 has to be filled. And you know, these are 20 minute workouts, some of them. So, you know, you just got to get down to the garage and lift some weights and get out and write your thing on the thing. The whole idea, even the idea of step one, put a calendar on your wall. Step two, figure out five different exercises with 10 reps and the weights, and then call that R1, R2, R3 the next day. C for cardio, H for if you're in a hotel room. Everything I just said is the creation of a get in shape framework. So that's what a frame. That's an example. It's rules and guidelines, it's processes that you would take to streamline activity. Now, for everybody listening, if you can turn whatever you're doing into a framework, you can help a lot more people because they can get their mind around it so much easier. But yeah, I think the discovery of frameworks for me personally was groundbreaking. It was a total shift in my career because Blue Light jazz and a Million Miles in a Thousand Years and father fiction, there weren't frameworks really. Maybe father fiction a little bit, but there weren't frameworks in those books. And then I did a consulting job for Accenture, big powerful consulting firm. And they needed me to create a framework based on some narrative ideas. And that framework was a project management framework. And then I thought, well, that would work for marketing. And all of a sudden I was penning a framework that. I don't even think I knew what a framework was while I was writing it. But that started everything. And I think every book I've written since then has been a framework.

[Donald Miller]

Wow. So that's how you came up with the story brand framework.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, it's a derivative of a project management framework that nobody ever. I mean, you know, 50 people saw it, you know, at a consulting firm. I didn't, you know, I started my career as a writer. I wrote memoirs. And so I would read Anne Lamott, I would read Frank McCourt, I would read, you know, I'd read books. And then I'd try to write my own memoir based on some of the. The way that they wrote theirs. And they were vulnerable here. And then they got to the point here, and they kind of did a deep dive here. And then they started chapters like this, and they ended chapters like this. What I didn't realize I was doing by reading all these books and trying to imitate them in some way, or at least use what's working in their book in my own voice to write my story is I was actually like an archeologist slowly uncovering frameworks. You know, William Zinsser, his book on writing. Well, his frameworks on how to write nonfiction. Ray Bradbury has a book on writing. Stephen King has a book on writing. And then slowly I got. As I began to uncover, oh, wait, wait, these are frameworks. I didn't think of them as frameworks. I thought they were just advice on writing. But these authors had their frameworks. And so I started using these frameworks, and my books got better. In fact, my first book sold 10,000 copies. My second book sold 1.4 million. And I would say the difference is I discovered frameworks between those two.

[Donald Miller]

When, even before that, when did you, for your early life, were you noticing frameworks were playing a part in your life and kind of learning about just the. Were you aware of that when you were working on something?

[Kyle Reed]

I don't know if I was aware of it, but I had the privilege and strange experience of growing up in a Southern Baptist church. Every pastor who got up there and gave a sermon had turned a passage of scripture into a framework. I was indoctrinated in that every week and every Wednesday night because my mother went to church on Sundays and on Wednesdays, And I was indoctrinated in these sort of system speak. But really, when I probably between prayer in the Art of Volkswagen Maintenance, my first book, and Blue Like Jazz, my second book, I discovered narrative frameworks. I discovered Robert McKee and Steve Taylor, who's a dear friend to this day. And I went to Southern California with my roommate Jordan Green, and we attended a Robert McKee story seminar. Robert McKee is actually famous for sort of yelling and diminishing the people in his audience. Like, if you ask a stupid question, he's going to let you know, and he's going to let you know loud. He'll even kick people out. So everybody's afraid of him. So that's kind of fun. But he teaches these. He teaches this. How do you open the movie? How do you close it? You know, what happens in the act two, midpoint, climax, all of that stuff. He's wildly entertaining and certainly very brilliant. He wrote a book called Story, and it's really good. That was my introduction to a narrative framework and really my introduction to really formalizing processes. And later I read a book called Save the Cat by Blake Snyder. That book, story, a book called the Seven Basic Plots, all the way back to Plato's Poetics. All of these are explanations of how story structure work. So I developed my own story structure and put it into building a story brand. And that book sold a million copies.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

And so, you know, I went from using frameworks, discovering frameworks, being indoctrinated in frameworks, using them to write better, and then ultimately creating one. And, you know, I never even knew it, but frameworks have really guided my entire life and benefited me.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, that clicked for me. I was talking to a friend not too long ago. He jumping into executive coaching. Super sharp guy. I think at one point he was lamenting to me a little bit of like, why am I not getting more clients? Or like, what's going on here?

[Kyle Reed]

Well, he needs a framework on how to get clients. Framework.

[Donald Miller]

I said the thing that. Yeah, you're doing it there.

[Kyle Reed]

So step one, create a lead generator. Step two, qualify those leads.

[Donald Miller]

And it just hit me in the moment. I was talking to him, and I think you've rubbed off on me so much, but I just said, what's your framework like? You have no. You're talking. You want people to hire you. You have no process. I can't define what you're doing. And I think that was the light bulb moment for him and for me in that moment of going, oh, if I want to grow this or if I want to be successful in this area, if I don't surround it with a framework, it's not. I can't. I'm not going to be successful. So even to your analogy about exercising, it's almost like you've taken the thought out of the actual process because you've defined, I'm just going to follow these steps. It's going to get me to where I want to go.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, and that's a very interesting point, Kyle, because I'm convinced that the brain looks to. The brain is always looking for cheat codes. Remember that game Chutes and Ladders, where you could actually take like a shoot and skip like 30 paces?

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. My girls love do that. Candy Land. They're always hoping that they hit the one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

That's a framework. When you hit that like weight loss framework, you're skipping a bunch of steps and you're making everything easier. The human brain's attraction to frameworks is actually that it saves them mental calories.

[Donald Miller]

Yes.

[Kyle Reed]

The brain burns between 6 and 800 calories a day, about 20% of the calories you burn, depending on your weight. And all that kind of stuff is burned by your brain. And it's also always trying not to burn those calories because it's trying to conserve them in case you need cognitive resources later in the day. So it's always trying. It's actually weirdly trying not to think. And so when you actually say, here's a great way to lose weight, it's 90 days, you're going to do this, what you're saying is you don't have to actually think about any of this. You don't have to make decisions, you don't have to do the research. Just do what I tell you to do in this order. And at the end of it, according to television, they look pretty good.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, exactly. They also work. No, 100%. You're right. I think that's so fascinating because I don't. I think a lot of us are walking around. We don't realize that that is what we are doing. We are looking. You know, one of the things.

[Kyle Reed]

Listen, you driving to work today, you drove on a framework.

[Donald Miller]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

The road is a framework.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. I didn't really kind of pay attention. It just guided me along. I think that's the thing that's interesting about this is even to some of the things I've talked to you about is my view of what's going on right now across the media landscape is it's about curation. So. And for me, I think everybody is. Not everybody, that's a little exaggerated. But a lot of people are outsourcing their thinking to people they trust.

[Kyle Reed]

When. We always have. Yeah, we always have.

[Donald Miller]

So for someone at, you know, listening to this, and I've got a lot already running in my head around frameworks. Like, how would someone translate this to a framework for themselves? Or how can they.

[Kyle Reed]

Even their own ideas.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. Or even like I'm thinking about, like, my morning routine is all structured in framework, and if I follow that, I have success. So someone listening to this, I think a natural question they're wondering is, we've.

[Kyle Reed]

Talked about how can I make a.

[Donald Miller]

Framework, why frameworks are important, but now how do I make a framework for myself?

[Kyle Reed]

That is a question. Let me say this. Six Sigma bills for over a billion dollars a Year. Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs discussed and taught in every school in this country, and rightly so. The four Ps of marketing. Another marketing framework, SWOT analysis. Strengths, weaknesses, Opportunities and threats. Very, very popular framework. The Lean Startup Methodology. Simon Sinek is a great framework creator. He really is brilliant at that.

[Donald Miller]

Absolutely.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

He flipped the whole framework on its head but then walked you through the framework.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think we love him because he simplifies very complicated ideas and also he's just a likable guy. The Golden Circle framework is his Jobs to be Done is a framework that helped Intuit double its stock price in only two years. Did you know that?

[Donald Miller]

No, I had no idea.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, they incorporated a framework and they doubled their stock price because productivity increased so much. The Business Model Canvas. You've heard of that, right?

[Donald Miller]

Yep.

[Kyle Reed]

That's been used by millions of businesses worldwide. The Story Brand Framework. Listen, the storybrand framework helps you say it clearly. And I couldn't and I hope that we're the world leader on that, on helping you say it clearly. So frameworks are really important if you are a thought leader or want to be a thought leader. There's a lot of people who have ideas out there. And let me tell you, the difference between a smart person with ideas and a thought leader is frameworks.

[Donald Miller]

100%, that's it.

[Kyle Reed]

Huberman is a smart guy. His new book Protocol turns him into a thought leader because he's turning all this stuff into actual processes and protocols, which is a framework. Might as well be called frameworks.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. Well, look at like James Clear. He's written what one Atomic Habits. That's a frameworks book. Yeah, he wrote it how many years ago?

[Kyle Reed]

I mean it's still, it's a best practices of. Some of it is the best practices of existing frameworks. But he's a genius at making them even more simple.

[Donald Miller]

Absolutely.

[Kyle Reed]

The framework is having figured out what works.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. And I think the reassuring thing to me is that's then your unique. That's what makes you unique is your perspective.

[Kyle Reed]

I believe in.

[Donald Miller]

On a framework.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

You walk in and you go, this is my morning routine framework. And this is why I do it. And these are the reasons. And you hear that from me, you go, oh, that's interesting. I've never thought about that. And then I hear yours, and then we go back and forth. But it's a unique perspective on how I. But it's still structure. I don't just, I've, you know, two kids. I don't Just randomly wake up. Like I've. There's a reason why I wake up at the time I do because of the goal I have to get me somewhere. And the framework keeps me going on that.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Tell me more about. You know, we've been kind of going around a little bit of like, how can someone create frameworks or show up to frameworks.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, I would say the first rule would be turn it into rules.

[Donald Miller]

Okay.

[Kyle Reed]

So you're looking for, let's just call them steps. Steps to creating a great Instagram post.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, the first thing you're going to figure out is, well, what are best practices? And we're kind of doing this now and you and I, because we do the story brand Instagram feed and we're discovering, well, you know, if you're outside, we get more likes and weird things. If you wear a colorful sweater, you get more likes. Wear a cool hat, you get more likes. If we're driving around in the FJ40, you get more likes if we actually do it for you. And also if we lead with the problem when I start talking about it, we get more likes if we, you know, all this is best. It's summation of best practices. So we could actually, probably by now we haven't done this, but we could create a framework around Instagram 100%. And by the way, I already created in StoryBrand AI social media, but it's.

[Donald Miller]

Guided by rules, guided by hidden rules.

[Kyle Reed]

That you're not seeing, has to be, you're typing in, what's the problem? What's the thing I want to talk about? And then it gives you the talking points based on rules that you never even read. So it's incorporating frameworks in that way. So I think the first thing is rules. The second is run those rules past best practices. Every recipe is a framework. And by the way, I'm the guy in the kitchen who really goes, can't just be a. I mean, can't you just pinch some salt? Why do you got to do a teaspoon?

[Donald Miller]

It's got to be right.

[Kyle Reed]

And I've made some really bad meals because I won't follow the framework. And I've learned just, you know, based on my wife's berating of me, I learned to follow frameworks. And so you really, you want to think of it as a recipe, a series of processes or. And also combined with a visual that helps people understand it. So the mountain is often used, the triangle is often used. You know, these. You want to find my framework for growing a small business Is based on an airplane.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

So you know, the airplane framework, you want a visual that you can walk people through. You know, I've given the story brand talk now to probably over well over a million people. And it's a seven part grid that slowly comes to life. It's a TED Talk now, by the way. You can go listen to it. Just Donald Miller story brand Ted talk. And in 20 minutes I go through a grid that is the framework that I created that has highs and lows and it visually help people understand the seven steps to clarifying your message.

[Donald Miller]

Man, there's so much already like why frameworks work. It makes a lot.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, you're going to see them everywhere you are. And if you watch the news tonight, it's a framework.

[Donald Miller]

Absolutely.

[Kyle Reed]

If you read it, you know, there's an order of the way things are done and even the way that copy is written is a framework inside of a framework.

[Donald Miller]

Yep. And to think that you're just showing up and they're just winging. There's no way.

[Kyle Reed]

No way.

[Donald Miller]

Which is why I love like, you know, I think Pressfield talks about just showing up and writing and like sitting down and spending an hour, which by.

[Kyle Reed]

The way, the war of art is a framework.

[Donald Miller]

That's right. Right.

[Kyle Reed]

I mean he, that, that book, the brilliance of that book is he really created a framework on the psychological war it is to create art.

[Donald Miller]

And there's something I think in our brains thinking it can't, it's not easy, but it can't be that easy that we just. If I follow this and show up and put in my uniqueness to this, it can work. I can make a business off of this.

[Kyle Reed]

Oh man, there are so many people listening to this. You know, if you can teach a dog not to bark when somebody knocks at the door, but you don't want to just say, I teach the dog not to bark, I teach them the stop barking framework or I teach you to teach your dog. And as soon as you say the stop barking framework, you're worth about 10 times more than just I have this magical ability that you cannot. You know, we should talk about that. Kyle. The reason frameworks are so important for thought leaders is other people can teach them.

[Donald Miller]

That's right.

[Kyle Reed]

If I create a framework, other people. We have I don't know how many private workshop people who go out and teach storybrand teach it.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Kyle Reed]

And we have a thousand coaches now who teach either story brand or the small business framework. And so that was another reason that I started creating frameworks is I want to stay married. It's like if I'm on the road all the time, teaching these things, winging it, sharing my wisdom, I can't be married because my wife won't stay married to me because I'm never home. So now I've got other people out there, an army of people actually doing that. And it's fantastic. And they're loving it too.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, absolutely. And you're helping them make money and they're helping their clients make money. Yeah, yeah. I've always define goals this way, but I think frameworks work this way as well as if, you know, you imagine you get on a highway and if there are no lanes, there are no guardrails.

[Kyle Reed]

Oh, man, that's a great analogy.

[Donald Miller]

There's no structure.

[Kyle Reed]

We've probably all been in countries that are like that.

[Donald Miller]

Once you know the rules of the road with our analogy here, then you can go, okay, I know where to go. I know how to get where I'm going. And now I can work backwards to get there. I think a framework is very similar.

[Kyle Reed]

What a frickin valuable episode.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, this is.

[Kyle Reed]

It's been valuable for me.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, it's been fun.

[Kyle Reed]

Makes you want to go create more frameworks.

[Donald Miller]

I think a couple takeaways is first off, look at all the frameworks around you.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. Notice.

[Donald Miller]

But I really think that everybody listening to this has some unique thing they figured out that they know. And one of the things that could be holding them back is they just have not put it in a framework yet. And I know, I think the artist in a lot of us goes, it can't. No, that's not how it really works. But it's true. It really is true. If you can step back and go through those three things you talked about of creating a framework and try it with a friend, just walk them through your framework of how they, you know, how you get your kids fed in the morning or how you make your coffee or something just to see, you know, what the framework is that you uniquely show up with.

[Kyle Reed]

You know, and the great thing about frameworks is they batch your thinking to leave more cognitive real estate, if you will. Cognitive bandwidth, cognitive ability to solve other problems. That's why Hal Elrod's Miracle Morning is such a fantastic book. You know, just get your morning done. Get the things that you need to get done. Down, down. That's why my R1, R2, R3, I never walk into my garage gym, which is a cheap garage gym, wondering what I'm going to do. I don't have to think about it. I don't have to go. Well, okay. Did I work on abs that.

[Donald Miller]

You know what's holding me back? R1, R2, R. I don't have that structure.

[Kyle Reed]

I'll send it to you, but I don't.

[Donald Miller]

Thank you. I don't have a framework that I follow because it's not a part of my routine.

[Kyle Reed]

And there's. There's not rules.

[Donald Miller]

There's not rules.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. Rules are every day of 2025, there's a workout.

[Donald Miller]

That's right.

[Kyle Reed]

You know, there's a workout.

[Donald Miller]

Don, this has been. I'm having a lot of fun on this episode. I assume you are. I think people listening to this are already taking a ton of value. This podcast is coming out and you're in the midst of releasing a brand new book.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Tell me about that.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, sort of brand new. It's Building a Story 2.0. I added about 10,000 words. Mostly stories of success, stories of things that have happened when people applied these principles that we didn't have before. So there's a lot of really interesting stories about how people and it just helps people put sort of skin on how this framework can help you clarify a message and really understand it a little bit better. And then we added StoryBrand AI, which is the sponsor of this podcast. So there's a free tool that the book refers to storybrand AI for you to create your brand script and your, I think, tagline. There's a free tagline generator.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. StoryBrand AI. Go there, check that out.

[Kyle Reed]

And also grab the book Building StoryBrand 2.0. Grab it on Audible. There's also. We forgot to mention this.

[Donald Miller]

Talk about this.

[Kyle Reed]

Pete and Joe. There's a thing that we created called StoryBrand Radio Theater Presents Pete and Joe Save Their mother's company. We actually wrote a radio play, a radio drama about two kind of absent minded brothers who shouldn't be running a company. But you can get that on Audible.

[Donald Miller]

We could probably spend another hour talking about how you came up with that idea. It's such a creative way.

[Kyle Reed]

We hired actors.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. It was some of the most fun I've had working here was working on that radio drama. That was a blast. So I'm really excited for people to hear that.

[Kyle Reed]

So radio storybrand Radio Theater presents Pete and Joe Save Their mother's company.

[Donald Miller]

Check that out on Audible. YouTube. Go get the new version of building Storybrand. Check out Storybrand AI. And most importantly, come back next week.

[Kyle Reed]

Come back because we're gonna talk about TikTok you know, I didn't want to do TikTok because I don't use TikTok and I don't know anything about it, but I've already started deep diving into it. Holy rats.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, there's a lot.

[Kyle Reed]

Thanks for listening to the why that Worked podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you like the show, follow wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're Enjoying this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and leave a comment letting us know what you think and what you want the guys to talk about in a future episode. Curious about how StoryBrand AI can help you create clear, effective messaging? Well, you can try it out right now and create a free customized tagline for your business. Just go to storybrand AI. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.