#10: Reality TV—Why We're Obsessed with Chaos (And What It's Actually Doing to Our Brains!)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Why That Worked – Episode #10: Reality TV—Why We're Obsessed with Chaos (And What It's Actually Doing to Our Brains!)

Presented by StoryBrand.ai | Release Date: March 10, 2025

In Episode #10 of "Why That Worked," hosts Donald Miller and Kyle Reed delve into the captivating world of reality television. Titled "Reality TV—Why We're Obsessed with Chaos (And What It's Actually Doing to Our Brains!)," this episode dissects the elements that make reality TV a perpetual favorite and explores how these principles can be harnessed for effective branding and leadership.

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1. Introduction to Reality TV

The episode kicks off with Donald Miller and guest speaker (unnamed) introducing the topic of reality TV. They pose the central question: Why does reality TV captivate audiences to such an extent? The discussion quickly moves to the historical roots of reality television, setting the stage for a deep dive into its mechanics and psychological allure.

2. Historical Overview

Guest Speaker [00:25]:
"Reality TV has been around a lot longer than you would think. The first reality TV episode ever came out in 1948, and it was called Candid Camera."

Donald acknowledges the longstanding presence of reality TV, noting its groundbreaking nature despite its early inception.

3. The Manufactured Reality: Dramatization and Conflict

The conversation shifts to how reality TV, contrary to its name, often dramatizes and fabricates scenarios to heighten viewer engagement.

Guest Speaker [01:34]:
"It wasn't even rehearsed. It was all dramatized. This is really, like every reality TV show."

Donald Miller [05:35]:
"Reality television has turned into reality to some degree... the American political system mimics WWE now, where people are like, well, we don't actually care if they're telling the truth. What we like is drama."

They discuss how shows like The Real World, Survivor, and The Bachelor introduce conflict and exaggerated storylines to keep audiences hooked. Donald emphasizes that reality TV operates on the same narrative principles as traditional storytelling, using conflict to drive engagement.

4. The Psychology Behind Reality TV

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the psychological factors that make reality TV appealing. The hosts explore why viewers are drawn to watching others' lives unfold, often filled with drama and conflict.

Donald Miller [09:20]:
"Our version of that is reality television. Yes, that's what it is. We are watching the adult version of a kid unwrapping a toy."

Guest Speaker [13:09]:
"Reality TV is safe. You are getting all the reward without having to suffer the consequences or the risk."

They liken reality TV to voyeuristic pleasure, where viewers can experience high-stakes drama and emotional journeys without personal risk. This safe form of escapism satisfies the human desire for storytelling and emotional engagement.

5. Reality TV as Escapism and Safe Entertainment

Donald and the guest speaker delve deeper into how reality TV serves as an escape from the monotony of daily life. By showcasing exaggerated and often sensationalized content, reality TV provides a thrilling alternative to everyday experiences.

Donald Miller [09:25]:
"What do human beings want about now?"

Guest Speaker [13:09]:
"You are getting all the reward without having to suffer the consequences or the risk. It's safe."

This section highlights the dual appeal of reality TV: offering both excitement and a sense of safety, allowing viewers to immerse themselves in dramatic narratives without real-world repercussions.

6. Reality TV's Influence on Modern Content Creation

The hosts examine the ripple effects of reality TV on contemporary content platforms like YouTube. They note that modern content creators have adopted reality TV's storytelling techniques to engage audiences effectively.

Guest Speaker [11:19]:
"Reality television plays off of the things we love about story. They have perfected the production of story in what we call reality."

Donald Miller [19:33]:
"It's all reality television. It's all personality driven because you're connecting with the different guys."

Examples include YouTubers who build their channels around dynamic personalities and engaging story arcs, mirroring the conflict and character development seen in traditional reality TV shows.

7. Applying Reality TV Principles to Branding and Marketing

A pivotal segment of the episode focuses on how businesses and brands can leverage reality TV strategies to enhance their marketing efforts. The hosts discuss incorporating elements like conflict, character development, and emotional stakes to create compelling brand narratives.

Donald Miller [24:03]:
"To use the aspects of reality television to sell more earrings, you might say something like, if you don't nail the anniversary present, it's probably the end of your marriage."

Guest Speaker [25:08]:
"People love to watch someone else go after something."

They illustrate how storytelling techniques—such as introducing stakes and creating relatable conflicts—can make marketing campaigns more engaging and memorable. For instance, a brand could frame its product as the solution to a common problem, thereby heightening its perceived value.

8. Conclusion: Lessons from Reality TV for Business and Leadership

In wrapping up, Donald and the guest speaker synthesize the insights gleaned from the discussion, emphasizing the potency of storytelling in both entertainment and business. They advocate for brands to adopt reality TV's narrative tools to build stronger connections with their audiences.

Donald Miller [26:57]:
"It's empathy and it's authority. We see the hole that you are in, and we've gotten a thousand heroes just like you out of that hole."

The episode concludes with actionable advice for listeners: understand your audience's struggles, empathize with their challenges, and craft narratives that position your brand as the guiding hero. By doing so, businesses can create compelling, story-driven marketing strategies that resonate deeply with their target market.

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Notable Quotes:

• Guest Speaker [00:25]:
  "Reality TV has been around a lot longer than you would think. The first reality TV episode ever came out in 1948, and it was called Candid Camera."

• Donald Miller [05:35]:
  "Reality television has turned into reality to some degree... the American political system mimics WWE now, where people are like, well, we don't actually care if they're telling the truth. What we like is drama."

• Guest Speaker [13:09]:
  "Reality TV is safe. You are getting all the reward without having to suffer the consequences or the risk."

• Donald Miller [24:03]:
  "To use the aspects of reality television to sell more earrings, you might say something like, if you don't nail the anniversary present, it's probably the end of your marriage."

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Key Takeaways:

1. Dramatization Enhances Engagement: Reality TV thrives on conflict and drama, which are essential for capturing and maintaining viewer interest. Brands can adopt this by introducing relatable challenges and showcasing their solutions compellingly.

2. Empathy and Authority Build Trust: Successful storytelling in marketing involves understanding the audience's pain points and positioning the brand as a knowledgeable guide that can help overcome these challenges.

3. Safe Escapism Appeals to Audiences: Reality TV offers an escape from daily life without real risks, a concept that can be mirrored in marketing by presenting products as gateways to enhanced experiences.

4. Personality Drives Connection: Just as reality TV builds a connection through memorable personalities, brands can cultivate relatable and authentic personas to foster deeper engagement with their audience.

5. Storytelling Principles are Universal: The narrative structures that make reality TV compelling are equally effective in business storytelling, highlighting the universal power of a good story.

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This episode of "Why That Worked" provides a comprehensive exploration of reality TV's enduring appeal and practical strategies for incorporating its storytelling elements into branding and leadership. By understanding the mechanics that make reality TV successful, businesses can craft narratives that not only attract but also retain and engage their target audiences effectively.

Transcript

[Donald Miller]

Foreign.

[Kyle Reed]

You're listening to the why that Work podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you've ever wondered why certain brands, trends, or cultural phenomena find success while others don't, you're in the right place. Every week, we unpack why something worked, then give you actionable insights that you can use in your own life. Now let's dive in with your hosts, Donald Miller and Kyle Reed.

[Donald Miller]

Hey.

[Guest Speaker]

Today we are talking about why reality TV works. And reality TV has been around a lot longer than you would think. At least is what I thought. Let me give you a quick brief history, Don, before we get into this. 1948, the first reality TV episode ever came out, and it was called Candid Camera.

[Donald Miller]

1948, I remember. I don't remember. I was obviously not alive in 1948, but I remember, remember. I remember people remembering Candid Camera. Does that make sense?

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Remember, it was, like groundbreaking.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, yeah. 1948. Fast forward to 1992, which I hope you remember. The Real World. Did you ever watch the Real World?

[Donald Miller]

No.

[Guest Speaker]

So the Real World was. Let me read you their tagline, because I think it's pretty good. This is the true story of seven strangers picked to live in a house, work together, and have their lives taped. And they need to find out what happens when people stop being polite and.

[Donald Miller]

Start getting conflict, conflict, conflict.

[Guest Speaker]

1992, the first, like, kind of what we would think of reality TV today came out. What's so fascinating about that is I love that, like, you know, the real life of these people, like, you call out the absurdity, and everything was rehearsed. The only thing real was, like, they had.

[Donald Miller]

Is that true? They rehearsed it?

[Guest Speaker]

Well, it wasn't even rehearsed. It was all dramatized. Hey, we're gonna do one on one interviews. This. This is really, you know, like every reality TV show. Now they. They have the interviews with the producer.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

That was popularized in 1992 by the Real World. But inside those interviews, they were just creating drama. So it was like, hey, you'll never believe what Don said.

[Donald Miller]

There was a guy, I can't remember. He was on the B, and he was like runner up or something. I cannot remember. He came to our house. I feel bad, but I can't remember. And he was telling us stories and he said there was a guy on that season that they kept showing him in certain light, and they were trying to convince the public that he was gay, but he was not gay. And he had no idea it was happening. He had no idea that they were running with that Storyline while they were filming it because they saw this angle of like, okay, let's just keep trying to make him look gay. Can you imagine actually like coming. Coming. Coming out, coming off of that season and then going back to the. Because, you know, they film it all and then you go back to the real world and then like six months later it shows up on television and they. He signed some waiver and they were able to do it.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, that's the thing.

[Donald Miller]

I just say that to illustrate, like, yeah, reality TV is not reality.

[Guest Speaker]

It's not real. And, you know, we see that rise in early 2000s where you have shows like Survivor, the. The Bachelor show up, the Real Housewives of X City, the Kardashians.

[Donald Miller]

Love the Apprentice.

[Guest Speaker]

The Apprentice. Absolutely. I mean, you could argue, you know.

[Donald Miller]

What I keep thinking? I haven't watched reality television. The Biggest Loser. I watched that.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, yeah, I remember that.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. That was reality television.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. So much of TV now today is reality television.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

And it's very fascinating. It's funny that we use the word reality. And yet my view of reality TV is that we. They use the most extreme places of drama, Violence to some degree. Like, we're going to conflict. Bad boys.

[Donald Miller]

Bad boys. What you going to do?

[Guest Speaker]

Money, excess fame. And it's all wrapped up in this idea of real. And nothing about it is.

[Donald Miller]

It's more like exaggerated tv. Exaggerated reality is what it should be called, exaggerated. Which we did an episode on Stories. This is what's fascinating to me.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

Because people say, well, you know, so the movies work one way, reality television works another way. It actually doesn't. The overlay are the elements of story. Somebody wants something, they experience conflict, and they overcome the conflict in order to get it or not get it. So if they get it, it's a comedy, which is a literary term for happy ending. And if they don't get it, it's a tragic ending. And what you'll see with reality television producers is it's almost like they've got, you know, index cards and they're saying, okay, you know, Barbara wants to marry the Bachelor, but we gotta have conflict.

[Guest Speaker]

Gotta introduce the conflict.

[Donald Miller]

That's right. So what's the conflict for Barbara? It's like, well, you know, he's from a big city and she grew up in a small town. And they're sitting there going, okay, I think we can play that up. So ask her these questions.

[Guest Speaker]

Or they bring in another character who's trying to steal that person. That's right. And that person will never make it to the end. But for about four episodes of the Bachelor, you're going to be serving a purpose. Yeah, that was one of the notes I wrote down was reality TV plays off of the things we love about story. They have perfected again the production of story in what we call reality. And it is providing well.

[Donald Miller]

And every good documentary is that way. You know, I watched the documentary on Xi Jinping recently and you know, you could see it. You could see it well, you know, she grew up in a. In a home and Xi's father was actually tortured by Mao Tae Song. And now she is becoming the next Mao. It's really weird, but, you know, even a documentary can't necessarily tell you what happened because what happened was boring.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

They actually have to plug in, well, here's the conflict and you're waiting for the conflict story.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting.

[Donald Miller]

That's why. So why reality television works is because it's not reality the way you think it is. It's still a synthesized, summarized, if you will, exaggerated, dramatic version of reality because that's what human beings respond to.

[Guest Speaker]

Which is why viewers, including myself, I watch reality tv.

[Donald Miller]

What do you watch?

[Guest Speaker]

Different Survivor, we like Survivor. We'll watch that. But there's all kinds of different forms of reality TV I've watched in the past or even today. Big Brother, we used to watch Big Brother a lot. But it's interesting that they use that, the power of that to almost. We use reality TV as a form of escapism right from our daily life. Because the truth is daily life can be boring and we need that place to go. Oh, that's daily life for them. But it's way more exciting. It's more exaggerative. I almost like. And again, I admit I watch reality tv, so I'm in this category. But you know, it's almost like the people who watch professional wrestling, they know they're in. They're in on the ruse. It's fake. They know it's storyline.

[Donald Miller]

I do not understand that. Really don't. I don't understand. And I hate to say this because I have friends who love it. And by the way, if my fishing buddies, if the lions wanted to go to a giant wrestling event, I would be in. I'd have a beer in my hand, I'd be screaming and escape at the same time. I don't actually understand any of it. I don't understand. And it's almost like this is what's really fascinating is that reality television has turned into reality to some degree. I mean, when you even look at the American political system, it actually mimics WWE now, where people are like, well, we don't actually care if they're telling the truth. What we like is drama.

[Guest Speaker]

That's right.

[Donald Miller]

We like a good guy and a bad guy and that guy's awful and our guy's beating that guy. And it's become. And I think I blame the news. You know, I remember I took a year off from television. This is interesting. I took a year off from television, gosh, 20 years ago. And I remember turning on the television after one year of. Not one year of just not watching any screen. And I was shocked at how dramatic everything had become. I mean, the drama on television intensified by 500%. Maybe it's because maybe I didn't remember, but it felt like in this year, everything. And I remember turning on CNN and seeing breaking news.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

Breaking news was breaking news and thinking, holy crap, we've gone to war.

[Guest Speaker]

And it's.

[Donald Miller]

And I remember thinking, what in God's name has happened here? And nothing had happened.

[Guest Speaker]

And now it's like, you know, breaking news. President Trump set to address the nation. You know, like, it's like it's the.

[Donald Miller]

Use of the tariff.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, that point I was thinking about is there's something about the boringness of life. If we were left to just sharing the news or sharing just someone's day to day life would not work as far as entertainment. And so to think that we could just leave that up to not making it in an entertainment way people would watch is not true.

[Donald Miller]

Do you think that? I agree with you. They make it as enticing as possible. But I remember when I lived in Portland, it must have been like a college radio station or maybe sort of an NPR kind of station. But I would wake up and drive to work and I would turn on this station and the whole morning show on this station was a guy would get out of bed, he's there with his girlfriend. He would get out of bed, he would drive down to the station and he would call her.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

Like they were just in bed together and he would call her. And that was the morning show, was him talking to her. They never talked about anything interesting, but I was glued to it.

[Guest Speaker]

You're in.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. And so do you know how?

[Guest Speaker]

Like, is it voyeuristic or why do you feel like.

[Donald Miller]

I think it is voyeuristic. Yeah. And I think. But my question is, what do human beings.

[Guest Speaker]

What do we want about now?

[Donald Miller]

There's all these videos on YouTube that have 20 million views of little children unboxing a toy.

[Guest Speaker]

Why?

[Donald Miller]

And other kids will sit and watch that. And I think our version of that is reality television. Yes, that's what it is. We are watching the adult version of a kid unwrapping a toy.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, and that's the interesting thing is, like, I kind of convinced you to do this episode because you're like, I don't really know what. But your premise is, I don't watch reality tv. And I'm like, don, that's not true. You do watch reality TV. You just watch it on YouTube. You watch someone restore a car. You watch someone. You've talked about this.

[Donald Miller]

Wheeler Dealers is my favorite show, which is reality television.

[Guest Speaker]

Cars, the family in China you and Betsy watch.

[Donald Miller]

Oh, well, yeah, there's this lady who cooks.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, that's reality television.

[Donald Miller]

That's all she does.

[Guest Speaker]

And that. So here's what I found fascinating about this. The people who are creating content today were shaped by the reality TV of the past. And what I mean by that is, it used to be we would watch television of other people living their life. They very rarely broke that third wall, or whatever you call it, with camera, where they would interact with the user. Now, today, people have been trained on all the ways of elements of entertainment through reality television back from the 2000s, and now they've translated that into YouTube. And so they have now broken the wall, though, of making reality connected with the audience. So you. They talk directly to camera. They include you in. But they use all the powers of reality TV with hooks, entertainment, fast pacing over exaggerated moments. And all the stuff we watch, visual.

[Donald Miller]

Nuttiness, all the stuff we watch on.

[Guest Speaker]

YouTube is whether it's the extreme of professional wrestling, the conflict of that, or the excess of fame and drama. It's all based in what they learn in reality tv. And that's why we watch it now. That's the new form of reality tv.

[Donald Miller]

The thing that happens in movies is the highs are much higher than they are in reality, and the lows are much lower. And I think what's happening on Instagram and YouTube and all that kind of stuff is people have learned to sort of exaggerate what's going on in their lives or find the parts of their life that are very high or very low because the human beings are just attracted to that. It's interesting to me, I still don't know that we have an answer to the question of why do human beings want to watch other human beings be human? Why is that? I have no idea. There Was a guy that I lived with. There was a house we called Graceland in Portland. There were like six or seven of us. He would watch Jerry Springer. Now reality television, the Bachelor, especially Jerry Springer. Any sort of what I would consider. And gosh, people are gonna be so mad at me because they're gonna think I'm insulting them. And I don't mean it this way. However, I call that white trash television.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And what I mean by that is people who are not high achievers sit and watch this stuff. Now the most high achieving person I know, Will Guidera, loves the Bachelor. So he's gonna call me and he's. What are you talking about? But there's something. And when I asked him, how can you watch this? How can you like. I'm literally not even like insulting you. Like how. Because my blood starts to boil. I have this extremely strong desire to disassociate. It's almost like my identity is being flushed down the toilet as I watch this. And I can't be somebody who watches this. Yeah, there's a cringing. And he said no. He said, when I watch these people on Jerry Springer, it makes me feel like I've got my life together. So you identify with that?

[Guest Speaker]

No, Totally. One of the things I wrote down, why does reality TV work? Is because it's saf. What I mean by that is you can watch someone else live a life that maybe you either want to have or don't want to have, but you can be the viewer and you don't have to do any of it. So you can provide.

[Donald Miller]

Are you living vicariously?

[Guest Speaker]

Yes. Yeah. You are getting all the reward without having to suffer the consequences or the risk. It's safe. Reality TV is safe. I like to watch Survivor, but I don't want to go 30 days without eating. So I'll watch that and enjoy that, but I don't have to deal with. It's almost. It really is consumerism at its finest.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. There is something about. I remember when I was in high school, we had a teacher and somebody tripped and fell and, you know, they got up, whatever. Some of the class laughed. Some of the class got up to help them. My teacher, I'll never forget this, she stopped the class and she said there were two reactions to what just happened. One was laughter and the other was empathy. And she said those are the two kinds of people that exist in the world. And you need to understand that the empathetic people are better than the laughing people. I mean, she said that whether that's true or Not, I don't know. My theory on the O.J. simpson trial and court TV and some of the more voyeuristic, certainly Jerry Springer Cops would fit in this category is the people who are attracted to that are the laughers.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay?

[Donald Miller]

They enjoy watching other people suffer and sort of have their lives destroyed. And I think that's one of the reasons I'm an empathetic, very, very strong empathetic. I'm not saying one is better than the other, by the way, because I don't agree with my teacher. I think there's a place for. But basically it's a masculine view of the world versus a nurturing feminine view of the world. It's kind of how that works. The truth is we're healthiest when those two views come together. And you don't get too far in the zero empathy that's psychopath, or too far into the nurturing where you're just a wimp.

[Guest Speaker]

What was the show? Or there's some kind of thing where it's like, check in and check out. What was that? Do you ever hear that?

[Donald Miller]

I can't remember.

[Guest Speaker]

Someone will know listening to this. I don't remember if it's a show or there's something that was. Their tagline is basically like check in to check out. And there's something about that, about reality tv, about television maybe, or entertainment in general, is I'm going to check in. I'm going to, you know, partake in this drama so I can check out of my daily life.

[Kyle Reed]

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[Donald Miller]

How can people who are listening to this podcast use the elements that you know? Because we're talking about, we're talking about reality television. We're talking about something that attracts humans attention. It's massive, whatever it is. And so my question is, how do you actually use it to be a better leader? How do you use it to build your brand? How do you maybe use it to. How do you use, like I could see me pulling out an iPhone on a family vacation when Emmeline is like seven and just saying, we're going to do a five minute documentary about this vacation and teaching her. What would make that documentary interesting? Well, there has to be conflict. Well, what's going on in conflict? Well, there has to be some sort of objective that we all have. What do we actually want? And by the end of it, she might actually understand the way story and story structure works because she had to actually take this family vacation and synthesize it into a five minute narrative. You know, that to me is really powerful. But you see brands doing this a lot.

[Guest Speaker]

Absolutely. There's all these kind of brands out there or personalities or I think about YouTubers or like different, you know, people we look up to. And the false sense that I think a lot of people do is they think I'm gonna start filming myself and instantly become famous. Do you know, like, again, my past life, I used to do freelance consulting and contract work. How many times I'd meet with artists and they go, now I'm willing to do this, but I really don't want to get famous. And I would just sit there and in my set laugh because I'm like, you're the furthest thing from. You think just because you make a piece of content, you're going to be famous. But that was what they associated with. The principles of. What I see today is, though, is the places that we tune into. The stuff I watch, the things we're attracted to are people who have developed characters and personalities over time that we connect with. So the gateway is the product. Let me, let me illustrate this with a story. I like to watch golf. YouTube. There's a whole genre of people who have channels that play golf.

[Donald Miller]

Okay, they play golf or they teach golf.

[Guest Speaker]

They play golf. Teach golf. Teaching golf used to be the thing. It's not anymore that you don't see that very often. It's now playing golf. You're watching other people play golf on YouTube? Yes, it started that way. Do you know the natural turn they had to make to keep people watching? What introduce personality? So there's a group of guys that I know of, there's five or six, there's a random amount they used to just play each other back and forth. That channel took off when you started to connect with the different personalities. And they started setting them up and the channel changed from go watch us play golf to now you see 15 minutes on the front end of them getting ready to go play their round of golf. Because it's all.

[Donald Miller]

I cannot imagine. This is interesting.

[Guest Speaker]

It is. It's all. It's all reality television. It's all personality driven because you're connecting with the different guys. You want to watch them do the things. One of the biggest media brands out there now is barstool sports. People try to replicate barstool sports. As far as, like, we're going to have podcasts, we're going to do all this internal. It'd be like at storybrand, if we're like, hey, let's have an internal podcast about the inner workings of our office. Not very many people are going to watch that. But if we took the. If we tried to replicate barstool. That's what they do. But it.

[Donald Miller]

Cause what does barstool do?

[Guest Speaker]

It's all entertainment. They're just a sports.

[Donald Miller]

What does that mean? What does it mean? It's all entertainment.

[Guest Speaker]

They're sports media blog.

[Donald Miller]

I understand. Why is it interesting?

[Guest Speaker]

Because of the personalities of the people.

[Donald Miller]

So how do they develop those personalities? What do they do to make us hire crazy people?

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, they hire crazy people.

[Donald Miller]

Do they really?

[Guest Speaker]

Who have conflict.

[Donald Miller]

We're not doing that.

[Guest Speaker]

No, we're not. But again, it's that whole idea of that you watch and you go, I want to replicate that. And you think, oh, okay, great. Well, let's get some cameras in our office and we'll try to.

[Donald Miller]

You try to add. So on this podcast, let's do this as an experiment. How would this podcast become more interesting using the elements of reality television?

[Guest Speaker]

Well, first, it would take years to develop the journeys of our backstory.

[Donald Miller]

Right. I disagree.

[Guest Speaker]

We have to do that.

[Donald Miller]

But I disagree with you. I think you're wrong. And I wish actually, I actually think you're a terrible person.

[Guest Speaker]

I wish I would throw it at you right now because I know what you're doing. That is true.

[Donald Miller]

But it's true, though, also, I'm. I, I don't. It's hard to have a conversation right now because you keep hitting on my wife when we're not on the air.

[Guest Speaker]

Is that what our producer told you? Because it's not true.

[Donald Miller]

I'm just, I'm just shooting from the hip here, man. I gotta make it interesting.

[Guest Speaker]

I think the reality. To bring it all back together, though. There's something to be said about when you're making content when you're trying to grow a social media presence, a show, whatever it is, is using the power of story and entertainment to develop your brand, to connect. There is something very powerful.

[Donald Miller]

I also think, like, there's something. I have a friend who will remain nameless who is extremely wise. Like, this guy should have millions of followers and he should have bestselling books and all that kind of stuff because he's extremely wise. He will not be vulnerable when you put a camera on him. He wants to look perfect.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And it doesn't work. It's never worked. And he just won't be. He won't be flawed. He has to be the guy who helps the flawed person. But he won't be flawed and his brand will not take off. And I think that's something that we can actually learn from. Reality television is like, what we like in these personalities are their flaws. That's what we like. That doesn't mean you need to go, you know, expose yourself or whatever, but we like people who help us feel human. We like that. So let's just list it. That's one thing that I know we like. The other thing we like is conflict. And so instead of saying, you know, we've got a Valentine's Day sale, say we got into an argument in our office about whether to discount this that much. Because this is a crazy discount and we've got people actually mad at us for, you know, something like that might work.

[Guest Speaker]

One of the best marketing campaigns last year was this brand. I can't think of the brand of it now, but basically they ran this play where this intern or this worker was going to get fired if they didn't get to X amount of. Wow.

[Donald Miller]

Okay, explain that.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, well, now you're putting me on the spot. But it was, it was, but it was like.

[Donald Miller]

It wasn't like shoes or something.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, I wish I remember the brand. It would take a minute to figure it out. But there was a. There was a whole thing where you. That was the marketing angle. So it introduced the human side, introduced an intern, and that if we don't get to this number, my boss is gonna let me go.

[Donald Miller]

And then they kept going with it was a contest. I remember this because the contest was this intern said that I can get a hundred thousand new email subscribers.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, that's right. And inst.

[Donald Miller]

Instead of actually saying like, here's a piece of value to get it, the whole angle was, I'm going to lose my job unless you give us your email address and Download this lead generator.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, Just follow us. Yes. So what I'm hearing you say is there's the human element, the authentication, there's the vulnerability.

[Donald Miller]

There's also the story hook. Something bad is going to happen unless we accomplish X massive. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes. And people love. You can take the idea of the voyeuristic side. People love to watch someone else go after something.

[Donald Miller]

Let's play this out. Let's play this out. Let's say we have, like a jewelry brand.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay. Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

To use the aspects of reality television to sell more earrings. You might say something like, if you don't nail the anniversary present, it's probably the end of your marriage. Now, that's sensational, right?

[Guest Speaker]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

That's why the urgency, though. Ex Jewelers has come out with this line of anniversary. Because God knows if you don't get this right, there will be. Right. And then you could actually just say, here's Jim. Jim is kind of a moron. And you know what? It would work.

[Guest Speaker]

It would absolutely work.

[Donald Miller]

It would absolutely work because people are attracted to drama. They're attracted to. So they're. They're. But let's. You know, it's not enough to say they're attracted to drama. They're attracted to a character who wants something, who has to overcome a challenge in order to get it.

[Guest Speaker]

That's right.

[Donald Miller]

And they're also attracted to the fact that this could end really poorly. Really, really poorly. This is what a brand script is building a story brand that's based on this. Right. So you could actually go through that brand script and go. But heighten the. If you don't get this right, man, it's gonna be. But we're here. We gotcha.

[Guest Speaker]

We got you. Okay. So I'm gonna put you on the spot, and we can end with this. How do people play the guide in their brand around this kind of what we're talking about? How do you play the guide in kind of building up this brand? Introducing conflict. Introducing story. How does a brand do that?

[Donald Miller]

The two things that you want to do in order to position yourself as a guide. One, you need to empathize with your customer's conflict, and you need to heighten the heck out of it. You know what I mean? It's not just like you're selling a wedding cake and you need a good wedding cake. It's. Most wedding cakes taste terrible.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. And weedy.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. And by the way, when somebody bites into something at your wedding and it tastes like garbage. Marriage is garbage.

[Guest Speaker]

That's right. No, that's Right.

[Donald Miller]

The whole experience is garbage because you're a cheap. Whatever. I mean, see what I'm doing? I'm tightening the drop.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm calling you off of another conversation we have about nostalgia is. And you don't want to look back and taste a bad.

[Donald Miller]

Do you really want to be the kind of person who serves their guests crappy wedding cake? You know, so that's the sort of thing. But then it's empathy. It's understanding their problem and empathizing with it. We know the pressure to get the wedding cake right, and we feel it for you. So it's empathy. Right. That's why we make the best tasting wedding cakes in the world. They don't just look great, they taste great. In fact, we've made over a thousand of them. So it's empathy and it's authority. It's competency. It's. We see the hole that you are in, and we've gotten a thousand heroes just like you out of that hole.

[Guest Speaker]

Yep, that's right.

[Donald Miller]

That's how you. But you can't do it unless you understand the reality of your client's story. And then what you want to do is you want to dramatize that. You want to do what reality television does. People, they're afraid of drama when it comes to marketing and messaging because they're afraid of being like the infomercial guy or being manipulative. The reality is when somebody looks at a screen, they're looking at drama. That's 10x what real drama is. So if you come in at 4x, you're boring.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And so it's not that anybody's going, well, why would I ever say you could ruin your wedding or you don't care about your. That's all. Like, that sounds like really. No, it's. It's just what it takes to actually be interesting.

[Guest Speaker]

And what they could do is use positive and negative stakes to reinforce that.

[Donald Miller]

That's right.

[Guest Speaker]

The positive of doing this. The negative. If you don't.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

See, I told you reality TV works well.

[Donald Miller]

I know it works. I just hate it.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, that's fair. And I think that's a fair thing. But it does work. It does work. Make sure you subscribe, because if you don't, maybe next week you'll die. I might not have a.

[Donald Miller]

Subscribe to our podcast.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, but I might have a job if people don't subscribe.

[Donald Miller]

That's absolutely. That's actually too.

[Guest Speaker]

Tell me that in performance review. All right, subscribe so I can show up next week.

[Donald Miller]

Stop hitting on my wife.

[Kyle Reed]

Thanks for listening to the why that Worked podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you like the show, follow wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're Enjoying this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and leave a comment letting us know what you think and what you want the guys to talk about in a future episode. Curious about how StoryBrand AI can help you create clear, effective messaging? Well, you can try it out right now and create a free customized tagline for your business. Just go to storybrand AI. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.