#12: Nostalgia—The Hidden Force That Makes Brands Feel Iconic

Summary

Podcast Summary: Why That Worked – Episode #12: Nostalgia—The Hidden Force That Makes Brands Feel Iconic

Introduction

In Episode #12 of Why That Worked, presented by StoryBrand.ai and hosted by Donald Miller alongside co-host Kyle Reed, the focus is on nostalgia and its profound impact on branding and consumer behavior. The discussion delves into why certain brands evoke a sense of timelessness and iconic status through nostalgic elements, exploring both personal anecdotes and strategic marketing insights.

Understanding Nostalgia

Dr. J.J. Peterson joins Donald and Kyle to unravel the mechanics of nostalgia. The conversation begins at [02:05], where Dr. Peterson emphasizes nostalgia's power, urging listeners to "lean into the beginning" and highlighting that effective use of nostalgia involves more than just reminiscing—it requires intentionality in creating and leveraging memorable experiences.

Personal Narratives and Memory Formation

Donald Miller shares personal childhood memories, such as driving around in a vividly colored Datsun 510 listening to bands like Depeche Mode and U2 ([04:45]). These anecdotes illustrate how first-time experiences and sensory triggers (like music and smells) embed lasting positive memories. Dr. Peterson adds that nostalgia often filters out negative experiences, allowing individuals to focus on the joyous moments, a process rooted in anxiety regulation ([06:55]).

The Psychology Behind Nostalgia

At [07:28], Donald explains that the brain suppresses negative memories to maintain emotional well-being, a concept Dr. Peterson supports by discussing how nostalgia serves as a safety mechanism. This selective memory helps individuals feel a sense of belonging and safety by recalling only the positive aspects of past experiences. They explore the idea that nostalgia provides a feeling of safety and belonging, reinforcing emotional connections and personal identity.

Nostalgia in Marketing and Branding

Transitioning to marketing, Donald highlights how brands strategically use nostalgia to resonate with their target audience. For instance, he notes that upscale venues like Soho House play music from bands like The Smiths to evoke nostalgia among their patrons ([30:20]). This tactic is designed to create an emotional connection, making customers feel a part of a cherished past.

Dr. Peterson cites the success of the series Stranger Things as a prime example of nostalgia in media, where callbacks to the 80s culture engage viewers on a deeper emotional level ([31:04]). Donald expands on this by discussing how companies like Jeep and Volkswagen showcase the evolution of their products, leveraging their rich histories to cultivate iconic brand images ([36:32]).

Practical Applications: Leveraging Nostalgia for Business Success

Donald and Dr. Peterson provide actionable strategies for business owners to incorporate nostalgia into their branding:

1. Use Relatable Language: Phrases like "Remember when we didn't look at screens?" or "Remember when couples used to stay together no matter what?" tap into common nostalgic sentiments ([35:32]).

2. Incorporate Iconic Elements: Showcasing the heritage and evolution of a product can reinforce its timeless appeal. For example, highlighting classic designs alongside modern iterations can evoke a sense of continuity and reliability.

3. Create Memorable Traditions: Just as Donald shares his family's unique Christmas traditions ([26:47]), businesses can establish distinctive rituals or events that customers will fondly remember and associate with the brand.

4. Sensory Triggers: Leveraging scents, sounds, or visuals that remind customers of positive past experiences can strengthen emotional connections. Donald mentions using music or specific scents to trigger nostalgic memories ([19:02]).

Notable Quotes

• Donald Miller [04:20]: "Memory is about filtering the past to keep the good and forget the bad."

• Dr. J.J. Peterson [14:30]: "Nostalgia reminds us that we're human because there's a human experience that each one of us is connecting with."

• Donald Miller [35:32]: "Remember when you could go to the grocery store and buy food for your kid that you trusted? That's the sort of message that resonates deeply."

Conclusion and Key Takeaways

The episode concludes with an emphasis on the deliberate use of nostalgia in creating lasting brand impressions. Donald and Dr. Peterson agree that nostalgia is not just a passive reflection of the past but a powerful tool that, when used thoughtfully, can enhance emotional engagement and foster customer loyalty.

Final Thoughts

Donald encourages listeners to actively plant seeds of nostalgia in their interactions and marketing strategies, ensuring that their audience builds positive memories associated with their brand. By doing so, businesses can cultivate an iconic status similar to beloved brands that have successfully harnessed the power of nostalgia.

Actionable Insights:

• Integrate Nostalgic Elements: Whether through storytelling, sensory experiences, or traditional rituals, find ways to incorporate elements that evoke positive memories.

• Understand Your Audience's Past: Tailor nostalgic references to align with the specific generational experiences of your target market.

• Balance Authenticity and Strategy: Ensure that nostalgic elements feel genuine and align with your brand's identity to avoid appearing gimmicky.

By embracing these strategies, business owners can leverage nostalgia to create deeper connections, enhance brand loyalty, and ultimately drive success.

Further Listen:

For more insights on crafting effective messaging and utilizing the StoryBrand Framework, visit StoryBrand.ai and explore their resources to elevate your business communication.

Transcript

[Donald Miller]

You already know that the storybrand Framework is the key to clarifying your message and growing your business. It really gives you a clear path to act as the guide while positioning your customers. The Hero up until now, the best way to learn and implement the framework was by reading Building a Story Brand or the newly updated Building a story brand 2.0. But what if there was a fun and engaging way to hear it in action? Well, now there is. It's called StoryBrand Radio Theater presents Pete and Save Their Mother's Company. This original story brings the framework to life in a classic radio drama style adventure. The stakes could not be higher as Pete and Joe inherit their family's struggling board game company and have to save it from the brink of bankruptcy. Will they figure out how to keep it afloat, reconnect with their family, and discover how clarifying their message can save the business? I don't know. Maybe. Go listen now on Audible. And after the drama, stick around for a bonus conversation with me and Dr. J.J. peterson plus April Sunshine Hawkins, because we're going to break down the lessons from Pete and Joe's journey and show you how to apply them to your own business. Don't miss this one of a kind, entertaining way to master the Story Brand Framework. Listen to Pete and Joe Save Their Mother's Company now on Audible and start clarifying your message. Today.

[Kyle Reed]

You'Re listening to the why that Work podcast presented by StoryBrand AI if you've ever wondered why certain brands, trends or cultural phenomena find success while others don't, you're in the right place. Every week we unpack why something worked, then give you actionable insights that you can use in your own life. Now let's dive in with your hosts, Donald Miller and Kyle Reed.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Today we're talking about why nostalgia works. And I think what you're going to see from this conversation is nostalgia is powerful and I want you to lean into the beginning. But also at the very end of the podcast, there's something Don shares of just how you can use nostalgia. And there's a couple key words you can use for your business, for your personal life that is worth you sticking around for. So thanks for joining us. We're going to get into the conversation right now. I'm excited about this one because we're talking about nostalgia.

[Donald Miller]

Remember that? Remember nostalgia?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah, it's weird. It's like meta. Like you're remembering of the remembering of nostalgia. Don the immediate question that jumps to my mind is what's one thing that instantly takes you back to your childhood.

[Donald Miller]

Music okay. Music. Yeah. Howard Jones childhood, though, that would be like Def Leppard.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Did you ever wear, like, tight, shiny pants?

[Donald Miller]

No, I weighed, like, 300 pounds when I was in high school, so. No, that would have been.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

That'd have been interesting.

[Donald Miller]

I couldn't even. We couldn't afford anything but parachute pants. MC Hammer.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Oh, man.

[Donald Miller]

Vanilla Ice.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

Ice. Ice, baby.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yes. I met my dad when. I think I was, like, five or six, he would say, kyle, do the hammer, and I would do the pants. Yeah. Yeah, that was. I remember when you were 5 or 6.

[Donald Miller]

I would have been, like, 15. Yeah, right.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

So you wore parachute pants.

[Donald Miller]

No, because I was too fat.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Oh. Again, sorry.

[Donald Miller]

Which. You know what? Come to think of it, they should have fit. They were pretty baggy.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

You know, my mom sewed my clothes.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Oh, yeah.

[Donald Miller]

She made. She made with her sewing machine.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Wow.

[Donald Miller]

My clothes because the fabric was cheaper. We were poor.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

We were really poor. So poverty makes me think of childhood.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Just great nostalgia. Just right away, just move right into.

[Donald Miller]

But nobody would buy that we were poor when they look at a picture of me. You look really well fed.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah. You were doing something, right? Or. She was doing something.

[Donald Miller]

She was feeding me well.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah. So music takes you back? Music.

[Donald Miller]

I mean, not. I mean, I don't know if it's. Is it nostalgic? Because it doesn't take me back. I just. Don't change the channel. I really. You know, I like. Oh, I like this.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. That takes me back.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Okay.

[Donald Miller]

Nostalgia is funny.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Why?

[Donald Miller]

Because. Okay. I thought about. Sometimes I think about my life now, which is arguably the best it's ever been. It's. You know, you're living in these great memories, but you also have a toddler. Right. So it's a lot of stress. But you also know, gosh, we're gonna. You know, I remember holding. Just three years ago, holding Emmeline, and just. Boy, those were the good days. We weren't sleeping. We were up in the middle of the night. We're changing diapers. We felt like we were going crazy. You know, it's funny how nostalgia. And I actually looked into it when I was doing a little research on what happens to the brain. But I remember, you know, if you say Dom, what was a great memory of, like, growing up in Houston, Texas, I would say driving around in my Datsun 510, which. Do you know what a Datsun 510 is?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

I know what a Datsun is.

[Donald Miller]

Datsun. Yeah. Everybody knows, like, the Datsun Z240Z, but the Datsun 510 was Nissan. Was Datsun before it was Nissan. And they made a car that looked like a BMW. And somebody at our church gave us their restored Datsun 510. What color was it promptly. It was candy apple baby vomit.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Oh yeah. It was like a yellow pic when you walk into the.

[Donald Miller]

I think it was. That was the actual manufacturer color. Yeah. Candy apple baby vomit. But I remember. Cause my friends would say. Would call it candy apple baby vomit in terms of. Because it was like that puke yellow. That alone is a nostalgic color.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

Like just the color itself. They used to paint F.J. 40s candy apple baby vomit. But I remember driving around listening to Depeche Mode and Howard Jones and U2 and the alarm. Do you know the alarm?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

No.

[Donald Miller]

Oh man. Yeah. Those are good days.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And I remember listening to that music, delivering Chinese food for Ruby Chinese restaurant. Did it for like four years.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Really?

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. Yeah, I delivered Chinese food.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

I did not know that about you.

[Donald Miller]

And I have the most fond, incredible memories of that time. And then when I actually like I made myself. Because I was doing this research on nostalgia and how it works. So I made myself sit down and add in the negative memories.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Okay, so in other words, the positive.

[Donald Miller]

Memories showed up without effort. Yeah, but I had to add in like the fact that I was constantly like driving with one hand on the wheel and leaning across the car to. To put the stereo wires back together.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Cause you forget you remember the music then. Not the.

[Donald Miller]

I remember the music, but I don't remember like the things shorting out all the time. I don't remember the. And then I was like, oh yeah, the whole thing smelled like mold. My car smelled like mold. Cause it had a leak and there was water in the floorboards. And then, you know, it was. I mean, I never had money for gas. Like I would get a tip delivering Chinese food and I would stop to put another $2 worth of gas in to get back to the Chinese restaurant.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Why do we do that? Why do you think we block out those.

[Donald Miller]

I looked it up and the reason is it's an anxiety regulation deal with the brain. So the brain is saying, hey, you can't handle too much negative. It's emotional regulation. The brain tends to suppress those negative memories because it's trying to kind of create this emotional well being and reduce anxiety. So this helps, you know, cope with past traumas. That's why people sometimes will go to counseling and like in their 30s and 40s and they'll realize they were abused.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Do you know A friend who've ever.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

No, yeah, I've heard those stories.

[Donald Miller]

They're really. Yeah, they're really sad because you block.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

That out and you remember the good times, kind of what you're saying. Yeah, it is very sad.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, it's very, very interesting how the.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Brain works that way to kind of protect you to some degree. Right?

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. I think it's just trying to keep you from. I mean, maybe the brain has a subconscious optimism or something like that, but you tend to delete all the bad stuff. And that's one of the reasons that I think it's really important, like on a family vacation, to create some really sort of picturesque quality memories. Because these are the memories that are going to. I remember like for instance, I remember going to Disneyland, Disney World with my mom. We were very, very poor and she saved up enough money to take us to Disney World. My mother would go to garage sales and buy like Mickey Mouse, you know, whatever dolls or whatever they are, stuffed animals, things like that. She would buy them and then she would run them through the washing machine. She'd put them in her suitcase and we'd go to Disney for the day and come back and she would pull those out of her suitcase so that she didn't have to buy them at the park.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

What a memory.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, an incredible memory. Yeah. But then when you sit down and go, okay, what was that really like? I remember like sitting three kids in the backseat, me sitting on the hump. Cars used to have a hump.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah, I remember that.

[Donald Miller]

All the way from Houston to Florida. And my cousin Sarah sneezing literal snot on my hot fat legs.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Back of a car in your non parachute pant legs.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. And then we had to drive two hours just to get to Disney World because we had family two hours outside of Orlando so we didn't have to pay for the hotel room. And it was probably not that great, you know, but, you know, God bless the brain for making us feel like it's in the past. And we'll get into it. But marketers, they use nostalgia a lot. And you can too. We'll get into sort of some tips on how to use nostalgia.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah, it's funny, we, you know, that whole thing of like, tell me you use something without. Tell me you use something like, tell me you use the story brand brain to get your notes. You know, like, I have some of the same notes as you. So I think we were tracking down the same line of kind of some prep for this episode. Yeah, I find it fascinating. I think about that Even today as a dad, I think about reflecting on the past and remembering key moments of my life. And it's so easy for me to feel like today as a dad walking through life.

[Donald Miller]

Yes.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

And, and really thinking about the impact. It's a day to day process of impacting your kids. Right. But remembering, like I just remember key moments of my life and how memorable they were. And to your point, trying to set those up for my kids.

[Donald Miller]

Well, did you do this? This is the first Christmas. Been married 11 years. We've been parents for three and a half. But this was the first Christmas where it became very important for me to establish traditions. And so I actually started a list, and we're going to put it on the refrigerator next year of things that we do. For instance, we go to the Belmead. We went to the Belmead Parade this year and I was like, okay, that's a tradition. We're going to do that. Christmas Eve, we changed the American flag to a Christmas flag as a way of inviting Santa Claus to come. Right. We do a popcorn buffet. So we go to like a gourmet popcorn place and get like five different kinds of popcorns, fill up these bowls and then we put a big screen movie screen up in the living room and we watch, you know, this year we watched Home Alone. But I'm realizing in order to create these and the point is to create nostalgic foundational memories for Emmeline of Christmas, this is what we did in Christmas. And my family did this. We had, we would do a progressive Christmas dinner. And my uncle lived down the street. My aunt lived maybe four or five miles away. My grandmother lived four or five miles away. And we would throw a bunch of hay in the back of my uncle's truck and we would eat like a salad at his house. And then we would all open the presents from their family to us. They opened the presents in their immediate family on Christmas morning. But on Christmas Eve you got all the presents from your uncle, your grandmother. So we'd eat like a salad at his house and then we'd go to my aunt's house and we'd have like soup and appetizers. Then we go to like my grandmother's house. We'd have the main meal. Then we go to our house and we have dessert. And we did it. This is pre seat belts. We just threw a bunch of hay in the back. And literally like the kind of trailer you pull your lawnmower around. We would take that fricking thing on the freeway with us on it.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

This is like. Hang on.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah. This is a different time. Different time.

[Donald Miller]

I would be lucky to have lived through it. I say freeway, but I mean, like a road that was like 45 miles per hour. And those were the most. They're just unbelievably fond memories. And so I think part of it, part of nostalgia is, as parents especially, you're creating this for your kids to look back on, and it helps them understand that they had a really good. You know, childhood is hard, but, you know, they had a really. There were some really good things that happened.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Something to at least reference back to. Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me of an episode we did not too recently about Valentine's Day, where, you know, the intentionality. I walked away from that. The intentionality of what am I doing to start up some kind of routine, some kind of just memory for my kids that they remember. Dad did this around this holiday. You know, Christmas is a big one for a lot of people. And I still, to this day, you know, our tradition was on Christmas Eve after church, we go get Chinese food and we go watch.

[Donald Miller]

Very cool.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

We go watch It's a Wonderful Life at Home. Yeah. And that's, like. That's what I did growing up. And we kind of do that today. You know, we kind of still try to do it with my kids today. Yeah. And it's.

[Donald Miller]

It's interesting how even that fact, just as human beings, like, if you just step outside of yourself and you say, okay, let's look at ourselves like lab rats, you are. You are doing what you did, what your parents did to you, in terms of going to Chinese food. You're repeating it. My question to you is, why? Like, what is it about that. That. That I'm convinced that most human behavior is about survival. That everything we're doing, even when you shake hands and are friendly with somebody, you're building a connection that can help you in case tension breaks out someday. Everything that we're doing, pretty much, we're doing as a survival mechanism. So how does nostalgia. I understand it helps reduce anxiety because you're deleting negative things and you're giving a positive interpretation of your past. But. But how does that help us survive? What is that about?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

It's gotta be something. The first thing that comes to mind is there's, like, markers of life. There's. There's. There's things that you can kind of go back to from a safety standpoint that I can. You know, one of the big ones I think about a lot.

[Donald Miller]

It's a feeling of Safety.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah, it's. It's almost like checking in with yourself and going, am I okay? There's that safety place where every story I've just heard you described. There seems to be this place of belonging though your memories. Maybe there's some pain in how poor you were, or you had to drive two hours to Disney. There's still a place of, like, this is what we did. I belong here, and I'm okay. I'm a part of something. I think about that a lot as I reflect back and think about nostalgia, that there is moments of going, I'm okay. I belong. I'm safe. There's something about that fondness of when did I feel good, happy, solid memories, not reflecting on pain. And I can answer the question going, I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm going to be okay.

[Donald Miller]

That's it. I think you're onto it. Do you remember there was this country song when I was a kid? Mama, tell me about the good old days, you know, when husbands and wives stayed together and all. Do you know the song I'm talking about?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

No, I don't, but it brings up in my brain. I won't finish your thought. But there's. There's almost like a yearning for us to escape back to what we thought in our brains is great. Almost like we're trying to escape the struggle of today. Because if we can just reflect back to a moment in the past again, back to. I will feel like there's something safe about it.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, there's also something. My theory, and I couldn't find this anywhere, so I'm going to introduce a new idea about nostalgia. Okay, but there's something. When something is new, when it's your first time to a movie theater, it's really an incredible experience. First time on a roller coaster. Incredible experience. First time hearing, you know, rock and roll music or whatever, and it's your band, you know, that's really incredible. And then there are, by necessity, diminishing returns on those experiences. And so all of the things that were heightened experiences happened in our childhood because they were all the first times. Does that make sense? First time you ever went to a big sporting event, sitting in an arena, watching a basketball game or a football game was just overwhelmingly incredible. And now you've done it 50 times, and you're like, okay, I'm gonna go to the bathroom before the. You know, before the break. Cause, yeah, it's old hat. Yeah, it's old hat. And so I think part of nostalgia is that things were amazing. So you translate that when you really don't think about. Think it through. Of. Everything was amazing yesterday. No, everything was new yesterday. It wasn't anymore. In fact, it was worse. It was a lot worse. Like, theaters had sticky floors and really tight seats that didn't lean back. And the sound was really bad, and the projector was really dim. It was actually a lot worse back then. Right.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

We block all that out. Well, it reminds me so much about.

[Donald Miller]

But you felt it when you were a kid, though. It was just so much more amazing.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah. It almost makes me even wonder, you know, as a kid, are we more adept to take everything in as a sensory thing because it's so.

[Donald Miller]

You're a sponge.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah. It's so enriching to us. You know, here at StoryBrand, we talk. You know, you've kind of pioneered this of, like, don't make the brain think too much. You know, keep it simple. And there's almost something to that where our brain is using, you know, trying to save calories. So I'm not going to take in every single detail, but I'm going to take in the positives.

[Donald Miller]

I wonder if the brain fills up. You know, it's just like, I can't add anything else to this. And so you're filtering out.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

You got to filter it.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. You're filtering out information where. I mean, my daughter will remember things. I'll read her a book once. You've had this experience.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

I'll read her book once.

[Donald Miller]

Three weeks later, we're reading the book, and the other night, I accidentally skipped a page, and she pulled the page back, and I literally thought she was reading it. She's three and a half. She can't read. And I'm like, emmeline. And I'm freaking out. I'm like, oh, my gosh. I got one of these, like, super kids. Like, are you reading that? She goes, no, but it says, blah, blah, blah. Cause three weeks ago, I said it to her once, and then I realized, yeah, because she's not having to filter anything out yet. She just remembers things and everything is new. And so. I mean, she's an intelligent kid, don't get me wrong. But at the same time, you and I have a. You know, it's like, I don't need that information. I don't need this information. And they're like, I want everything. I want to know everything. Go ahead.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah. Do you? There's something fascinating I was finding as I was looking at this was the triggering of nostalgia.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

So I remember. Let me set this up. With a story. My premarital counseling. My wife and I went. Before we got married, one of the things our therapist said was smell is an amazing way to trigger memories. And it always stuck with me. And I started thinking about that more, and I remember there are smells, there are certain flavors of things, or just sensory that brings back memories. And so one of the things I did for our wedding was you give your wife a gift before you get married. They would give it. And I was like, what? I mean, what am I gonna do? I don't know what I'm gonna do. I bought her a really nice bottle of perfume because I remembered my.

[Donald Miller]

Our counselor saying, yeah, very cool.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

And so every time I smell that, whether it's her wearing or if I smell it, someone else wearing it, it instantly brings me back to our wedding day. Every single time.

[Kyle Reed]

Really?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah, absolutely every single time. It is the weird, but it instantly triggers that moment of like, it was almost like I needed. I didn't know I was doing it, but it was a subconscious move to say, hey, remember this moment. I'm going to help you with this.

[Donald Miller]

That's very cool.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Isn't that crazy, though?

[Donald Miller]

That very romantic cop. She's got a good husband.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

I'm like that with. I'm like that with storms.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Okay.

[Donald Miller]

Because I grew up in Houston, and Houston has fairly violent storms. All the south does. And I remember getting up in the middle of the night and walking out of my house like two in the morning into the eye of Hurricane Alicia. So everything's really calm. And I walked down the street. You could see the stars. And then that 100 mile per hour winds hit on the backside of the storm. And I literally had to crawl home to not, you know, to not get like, roof on me. By roof, I mean like the roof of a house.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Roof, roofs.

[Donald Miller]

And now I will walk out on the porch and I. I smell that storm. And it's just the most wonderful sensory to me. It's like if I die and go to heaven and I enter into the other side and it smells like a storm coming, I'm going to be like, God knows me. It's his perfume.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Here's what's so fascinating about nostalgia that I didn't get into. It's bringing up in my head right now is as you're telling stories, I'm thinking about stories of my past and remembering certain things, whether it be a storm or whether it be riding in your first car or all those moments. And isn't it. It's almost like nostalgia reminds us that we're human because there's a human experience that each one of us people listening to this right now are probably having memories of nostalgia, most likely positive, that they're connecting with. And it's like that human connection that we can exchange some kind of back and forth on of a positive memory. Yeah, nostalgia is powerful.

[Kyle Reed]

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[Donald Miller]

You know, one of the things that I try to do with Emmalon is I try to do things to help her understand she had a really good childhood. Yes, yes. This goes back to a previous point. You can actually, as a parent, start planting seeds of nostalgia that are. That are very, very positive in her mind. And you don't know what's going to stick and what's not going to stick. But I think there are some things that really help. I remember driving with my dad. I don't have very many memories of my dad at all because he took off. But I remember driving and listening to the Beatles. He introduced me to the Beatles. And to this day, when I hear the Beatles, I think of those limited hours that I. And of course, those are mixed. I give my dad a mixed review, of course. In fact, Betsy and I were laying in bed last night and I was saying, you know, I have insecurities about a lot of things. I don't have insecurities about being a dad. I actually think I'm a pretty good dad. I think I beat my dad in the category of, you know, like, being here. So I'm like, there's not a whole lot to compare to. But anyway, you know, I think we can also, like. I know when I'm turning up the radio and my daughter's in the backseat and I'm taking her to school, this is gonna be a memory. And Getting out and taking her in and she gives me a big hug. She gives the best hugs. Like Emmeline, you give the best hugs. These are memories, right? Yes. Not leaving the house without giving her a big kiss on the cheek. And then she gives me a big kiss on the cheek. And you're reinforcing these things. And I think it's important that when a kid grows up, they at least have a chance to look back and have something that fights victim mentality. Because God knows it's hard. God knows we neglect our kids. God knows that we can't read their minds. So we don't exactly know what's going on. And they can easily create a narrative of my past was bad and I wasn't set up to win. Even kids who grew up wealthy and parents are around those sort of things. So to be able to say, hey, no, I need to plant as many memories of, like, we were here, we loved you, we were listening. Because God knows the way we rewrite our histories is not always very accurate.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah. It reminds me, you know, just in this conversation, when we think back in the past, it forces us to slow down today because it makes us more intentional, it makes us pause more, it makes us reflect and go think back to those moments where we need to be present today. But also, again, it's those moments that are intentionality that your kids will remember, your, you know, your spouse, your friends. Just those little things.

[Donald Miller]

I think we're doing it. We're doing it as a team, too.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah. Okay.

[Donald Miller]

As a staff, I think we will look back on last year and this year for the rest of our careers and just say, God, those were good years. Right? I mean, we bring in a therapist, we shut down our office, what, two or three times a year, and the therapist talks about self esteem and those sorts of things. In our office today, we're doing a staff lunch and Johnny Swim is coming to do a concert. You know, it's stuff like that that you just go, hey, we all need to make a living. And we all need to, you know, we need to do this. Which means we're going to spend eight hours together day after day after day. Why not do things now that we will look back on and go, God.

[Kyle Reed]

That was really special.

[Donald Miller]

That was really awesome. I guess the controlling idea of the first part of this podcast is don't make nostalgia an accident. Yeah, don't make it an accident. Christmas traditions, memorable visual scenes. We're recording this early, and so I don't know when it'll post, but tomorrow is Valentine's Day. And I'm giving Emmaline her first Valentine's day card. Do you know what I did?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Tell me, because I need an idea.

[Donald Miller]

Well, you're gonna have to hurry. I know you need to overnight ship it, which you probably can. Yeah, it'll probably. If you do it right now. I got her a card that is four feet high.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Oh, that's fun.

[Donald Miller]

Three feet. And I'll get a marker because it's like I don't want you to forget. Yeah. And hey, listen, she's probably gonna forget, but the more at bats you get, you gotta realize everything isn't at bat. And it could stick in her brain of when it came time for my dad to formally say I love you, he hit a home run.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Nostalgia is absurd. And what I mean by that is it's an absurd amount of breaking the day to day monotony. That's what I get from that. It's a grand gesture that sticks in your brain.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. There's something that you can create.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yes. Well, it's even like Christmas. That's not normal things we do. You get in the back of a truck, you drive progressive meal or eat Chinese food and watch it. It's a wonderful life. It breaks up the monotony. Which is why I. So many people go back to nostalgia so much in times of pain or struggle or anxiety or to break up the day to day or that triggering of a smell or a taste of something.

[Donald Miller]

My wife is extremely nostalgic. She's the oldest of seven. Her dad was one of eight, her mom was one of nine. I believe I might have that switched around. And family is everything to her. And what I noticed when we were. She does this all the time. But when we were designing our house, I was like, well, let's put the stairs that go up to the front porch here, you know, we'll make them just some small stairs because we're like, look. And she goes, no, they need to be all the way across the porch. Like from all the way across. And we're just going back and forth. I'm like, I don't understand. Like, why do you. Why are you designing our house with a porch that in my opinion nobody would say looks. Right. And then finally it came out. My grandmother's porch. Hetta's.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

I'm like, well, what does that have to do.

[Donald Miller]

What does that have to do with anything? Like we're trying to design. This is not your grandmother's house.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

It's that comfort though. It brings you back. You know, I can't help but think as we're talking back to the past. And we could probably sit here for another couple hours reflecting on nostalgic memories. But what do you think? Like thinking today. How have you seen people using nostalgia in business? Marketing?

[Donald Miller]

I got a really interesting one that probably most people don't notice. When I was in school, in high school, Depeche Mode, Book of Love, Howard Jones, the alarm, U2, those were alternative bands. They didn't have a whole lot going. The Smiths. The Smiths especially. I don't think the Smiths ever put a hit on the American chart. It was 20 years consecutively that they had a top 10 hit in UK, but not in America. So in America, they were. And I'm getting somewhere with this. In America, the Smiths were an alternative band and they were an identity band. So everybody else was listening to Def Leppard and Joan Jett. And, you know, that's the thing. But if you were kind of an emo kid or an alternative kid, you were listening to the Smiths. And now what happens? All those alternative kids who weren't jocks or cheerleaders are rich. They're all rich. They're the nerds in high school. They make more money than the average. Whatever. And the tables have turned a little bit. Okay, this is where I'm going. You walk into Soho House.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Or you walk into a restaurant. Not like eleven Madison park, but if you walk into a restaurant where you and your wife aren't getting out of there for under 200 bucks, you know what they're playing on the radio, on the music, the cool kid music. They're playing the Smiths.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah, that's right.

[Donald Miller]

I swear, I hear it everywhere. They're playing the Smiths. They're playing Book of Love. They're playing Depeche Mode. They're playing the stuff. And this is why. They know their target market and they know the nostalgic years of their target market. And they're making their target market feel good using nostalgia. So it's extremely strategic.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

You know, if you go into the Gap or some Amber Crombie, I don't know what the brands are these days. With kids, they're not playing that crap. They're playing it for me in some place where they're gonna get more of my money.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yep, that's right. And you see it all across pop culture today, you know, with movies. You know, I think about a series that, you know, is not brand new, but relatively new, but like Stranger Things. Great.

[Donald Miller]

That was so much Nostalgia.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

So much callback to the past.

[Donald Miller]

Yet did you realize it when you were watching it?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[Donald Miller]

I felt it before I knew what they were doing.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

I felt like, E.T. this is E.T. this is. What's the Stephen King? Stand By Me.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Remember that movie? I felt it before I knew Goonies. Right? I felt it before I knew. And they're like, oh, my word. These are all, like, actual scenes that are set up just like the Goonies. Just like, especially E.T.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah. And it's interesting in marketing because I think about, you know, one of the things I yearn back for is the tangible things of, like, memories that are tangible. We live in such a digital space. Right.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Today where everything's technology, phone, screen, instant gratification. The nostalgia I have is for some of the things of the past that I maybe hated in the moment, like mowing the grass or, you know, those moments that slow you down, but there's a yearning back to you.

[Donald Miller]

You just brought to mind the smell of grass.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Exactly.

[Donald Miller]

The first cut of the year.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Do you remember the smell of gr? I have very distinct memories of my dad cutting the grass and a storm coming in. I could smell the rain.

[Donald Miller]

Oh, my word.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Cut grass and a storm coming in.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yes. But it's so powerful, right? And I think, to some degrees, taken to its worst, it can be manipulative. But there is something that people are using today. Using.

[Donald Miller]

You know, I don't think it's manipulative for a restaurant or a store to play the Smiths when I walk in, because I'm like, well, first of all, if you're manipulating me, I love how you're doing it, brother.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Thank you.

[Donald Miller]

It's working. It's working. Hey, did you ever study? You and I have been friends a while, but I don't know if I've brought it out. Bain Capital's pyramid of value.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

We haven't talked about it here.

[Donald Miller]

We haven't talked about on the podcast.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

I've looked at it a little bit. Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

So basically, Bain did. There were three guys at Bain. It wasn't Bain Capital, it was Bain Consulting, I guess. But they did. They did 10 years of research on what consumers actually buy. They broke it down. It looks like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, kind of. It's a pyramid. On the bottom are sort of functional needs, like money, that sort of thing. In the middle are emotional needs, and that's respite from anxiety, things like that. And on the top, it's basically self actualization. And they say there are only 30 things people buy. You can look it up online. Harvard Business Review did a really great article on it in September, October, about five years ago. And basically what you want to do is you want to take the pyramid of value, 30 things people buy. And you want to figure out how your products can be associated with these things. One of them in the emotional quadrant is nostalgia. People buy nostalgia. Think about how Ronald Reagan got elected president. Ronald Reagan got elected president with a little known slogan called Make America great again.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Exactly.

[Donald Miller]

He didn't use it to the degree that Trump did. Trump sold nostalgia.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah, he did.

[Donald Miller]

He did. And you kind of go, well, make America great again. I grew up in the 70s and 80s, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, and I'm telling you, it's way better now.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah, but he played on the stop.

[Donald Miller]

People are making more money. But he played on that feel of. And what he's doing is he's saying, hey, let's go back and make America feel the way it did when you were a child and everything was new, which is actually completely impossible. Right. So, I mean, Kennedy was doing this. You kind of paint a vision of the future that looks like the past. You know, what's a cowboy hat?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah, what the hell you need.

[Donald Miller]

What the hell does anybody need a cowboy hat? They don't.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

It's a callback to a time in our brains where we.

[Donald Miller]

It's exactly cool. It's 100% nostalgia. And it's killer nostalgia, by the way.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah, it is. And it's crazy. We could sit here probably for another.

[Donald Miller]

Are you saying we need to stop?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

No, I'm just saying we could sit here for hours. I just, I think that the thing I'd love to hear from you is, you know, whether or not someone's a parent, married, business owner, brand, whatever it is, how can someone to kind of wrap us here. How can someone make nostalgia work for them?

[Donald Miller]

Well, a couple ways. And this gets into the marketing and messaging for our business owner listeners. One of the things that you can do is kind of in your ad copy, in your marketing copy, you can say things like, remember when we didn't look at screens? Yeah, right.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

So let's say that you have like a kid's activity gym.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

I would actually write that down. If I'm trying to sell like a kid's activity gym where you come and do tumbling or whatever, you're going to want to say your kids are going to learn this, they're going to learn that, they're going to learn to do backflips. They're going to learn. Start out with, remember when we didn't look at screens?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And every parent will go, oh my God, yes, I do. And you're tapping into that. So remember when. So if there's part of your brand or whatever you're doing that. Remember when couples used to stay together no matter what. It's a great marriage counseling ad.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Oh, that's. Yeah, I see. What. Yeah, yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Remember when you could go to the grocery store and buy food for your kid that you trusted? Right. I mean, you know, that's the sort of food that we make.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah, we make food, man. That's powerful.

[Donald Miller]

See what I'm saying?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

That is really. Yeah, let's just pause on that. That is such a valuable insight for any business owner using the words remember when and then fill the box.

[Donald Miller]

That's exactly.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

That is very powerful.

[Donald Miller]

Also. Just sort of like in your branding, iconic elements, like anything that you can do. Well, you know, you'll see this in like in Jeep ads and Volkswagen did it recently. BMW has done it. Well, they'll go back through the cars and show the evolution of the car to today to just show the iconic sort of looks and history of their brand and how far it goes back. That's use of nostalgia.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

There's also a side of nostalgia is escapism. Right. Selling escapism. Get out of your day to day to these moments. There's something there too.

[Donald Miller]

Well, memories. Here's some great words, some language you can use. Memories, reminiscence, childhood. Throwback. Right? Throwback. Air Jordans Right now, How much are they worth?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Oh, thousands.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. Why?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, it just takes you back to a time. Some sort of nostalgia.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

You yearn. That's why, you know, MJ's better than LeBron. We yearn for that day.

[Donald Miller]

Well, he is, but. Yeah, actually, I don't know if he is. I mean, I can't. He is. In my nostalgic mind, there's nobody better than him. You gotta love LeBron as a human.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

We yearn for those days. The power of nostalgia is incredible. It's adapt. And I think we can do more of it.

[Donald Miller]

Well, one thing you can do is if you are doing something, go to storybrand AI and take some marketing copy. Go over to blank canvas or to the brain and put your marketing copy in and say, hey, can you make this nostalgic?

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

That's good.

[Donald Miller]

And it'll do it. It'll pop in something there. Man, I love. I'm not fond of brands usually telling their story. But things like delivering quality since 1928, just make sure that you incorporate your customer into it rather than proudly in business since 1928, that has nothing to do with the customer. Delivering quality does. To be able to just sort of take people back into the past, I think there's something really, really powerful about it. And our marketing and messaging calling back to those days and making people feel that way and associating ourselves with the past. The positive aspects of the past, I think are really, really powerful.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

Absolutely. This has been, I think, a great episode, Just a great conversation.

[Donald Miller]

Well, I'm curious maybe if you're driving with your family right now. Top three memories of being a kid. Gosh, just so good. The days were so good. Yeah, but they actually weren't.

[Dr. J.J. Peterson]

The real lesson of today. Well, thanks everybody for listening. We will see you next week.

[Kyle Reed]

Thanks for listening to the why that Worked podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you like the show, follow wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're Enjoying this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and leave a comment letting us know what you think and what you want the guys to talk about in a future episode. Curious about how StoryBrand AI can help you create clear, effective messaging? Well, you can try it out right now and create a free customized tagline for your business. Just go to storybrand AI. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.