Podcast Summary: Why That Worked – Presented by StoryBrand.ai

Episode #13: Marriage—The Truth About What Makes Love Work Long-Term (ft. Johnny Swim) Release Date: March 31, 2025

Introduction

In Episode #13 of Why That Worked, presented by StoryBrand.ai, hosts Donald Miller and Kyle Reed delve into the intricate dynamics of long-term marriages. Moving beyond the idyllic fairytale narrative, this episode offers a candid exploration of the real, often messy, and transformative aspects that sustain a marital relationship over the years. Special guests Abner Ramirez and Amanda Sudano from the acclaimed musical duo Johnny Swim join the conversation to share their personal journey and insights into making love work.

Meet the Guests: Abner Ramirez and Amanda Sudano of Johnny Swim

Abner Ramirez and Amanda Sudano, collectively known as Johnny Swim, are not only successful musicians but also a married couple who have balanced touring, raising a family, and building a life together for over a decade. Their unique experience of maintaining a marriage on the demanding environment of a tour bus provides valuable perspectives on resilience and intentionality in relationships.

Their Journey: How They Met and Reconnected

First Encounter in Church

Abner Ramirez recounts meeting Amanda during their teenage years at a church in Brentwood, Tennessee. At 19 years old, Abner, who had a reputation as a player, publicly declared Amanda as the girl he intended to marry. Despite his bold proclamation, Amanda initially resisted, leading to a four-year separation.

Abner Ramirez (04:18): "I said it out loud, literally right there in that seat. And she goes, what? I said, that's the girl I'm gonna marry."

Amanda shares her recollection of that moment, highlighting her initial reluctance and the differences in their social circles.

Amanda Sudano (04:47): "When he came up to talk to me, I was like, I have good discernment, sir. Please don't talk to me."

Reconnecting After Four Years

Their paths crossed again at Cafe Coco, where a mutual friend introduced them. Both had been introspective during their time apart—Abner had stopped dating for four years, and Amanda had developed her own focus and self-awareness.

Amanda Sudano (05:25): "Both of us have the answer. We're both stalkers."

Their mutual admiration, despite initial reservations, led to rekindling their relationship, cementing their bond with shared goals and mutual support.

Evolving Perspectives on Marriage

From Finish Line to Endless Journey

Initially, Abner viewed marriage as a milestone—a finish line to be crossed. However, his experiences transformed this perception into understanding marriage as a continuous, ever-evolving journey.

Abner Ramirez (19:20): "This is usness is constantly moving, and that means we change and we grow as people."

Amanda concurs, emphasizing that a successful marriage involves constant growth and adaptation.

Amanda Sudano (09:34): "If you don't see it as a challenge designed to transform you, it absolutely has to transform you."

Overcoming Challenges Together

Navigating Health Crises and Mental Health

The couple faced significant challenges, including Amanda's severe health issues post-COVID and Abner's battle with depression. Their mutual support and commitment to each other were pivotal in overcoming these hardships.

Amanda Sudano (16:49): "We really built this other layer of trust with one another, this other layer of support for one another."

Abner reflects on his transformation through marriage, becoming a better version of himself with Amanda's influence.

Abner Ramirez (09:00): "I am a completely different human because of my wife. And I like this human."

Their approach to therapy and open communication strengthened their bond, teaching them to hold space for each other's struggles.

Integration with Their Music: "When the War Is Over"

Drawing from their personal experiences, Abner and Amanda are developing a musical titled When the War Is Over. This project encapsulates their journey through love, struggle, and transformation.

Abner Ramirez (12:17): "It's about some cosmic pull that... it's greater than romance."

The musical explores themes of enduring love amidst external and internal conflicts, mirroring their real-life challenges and triumphs.

Amanda shares the inspiration behind the album's title, rooted in her personal battle with health issues and the psychological warfare that accompanied it.

Amanda Sudano (16:27): "The war is out there and it's us fighting. The title comes from a song on the album that was a diary entry of mine."

Their music becomes a medium through which they express the depths of their relationship and the resilience required to sustain it.

Key Insights and Lessons on Making Marriage Work

1. Intentionality and Resilience: Successful marriages are built on deliberate efforts and the ability to withstand and grow from challenges.

   Abner Ramirez (02:05): "It really created a much deeper bond and also just an understanding."

2. Continuous Growth: Viewing marriage as a dynamic journey rather than a static goal fosters ongoing personal and relational development.

   Abner Ramirez (19:20): "We are rivers, not lakes."

3. Mutual Support: Being each other's teammate and providing unwavering support during tough times strengthens the marital bond.

   Amanda Sudano (16:49): "We really built this other layer of trust with one another."

4. Effective Communication: Open and honest communication ensures that both partners remain aligned and can navigate misunderstandings effectively.

   Abner Ramirez (09:58): "If you're looking to add to your life by adding a partner, I think you're already kind of messing up."

5. Embracing Transformation: Accepting that both partners will evolve over time and embracing these changes together prevents stagnation and fosters a thriving relationship.

   Abner Ramirez (21:20): "If you change, I'm changing, too."

Conclusion

Episode #13 of Why That Worked offers a profound exploration of what makes long-term marriages resilient and fulfilling. Through the authentic and heartfelt stories of Abner Ramirez and Amanda Sudano, listeners gain valuable insights into the importance of intentionality, continuous growth, mutual support, and effective communication in sustaining a loving and transformative relationship. Their journey underscores that making love work is an ongoing process of adaptation, understanding, and unwavering commitment.

Notable Quotes:

• Abner Ramirez (09:00): "I am a completely different human because of my wife. And I like this human."

• Amanda Sudano (13:12): "We're both stalkers."

• Abner Ramirez (19:20): "This is usness is constantly moving, and that means we change and we grow as people."

• Amanda Sudano (16:49): "We really built this other layer of trust with one another."

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