Podcast Summary: The StoryBrand Podcast

Episode #39: The 3-Phase Marketing Formula That Works Every Time
Host: Donald Miller
Co-host: Kyle Reed
Date: September 29, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Donald Miller unveils his indispensable "3-Phase Marketing Formula"—a messaging framework that helps businesses gain clarity, captivate customers, and drive real results. Building on the StoryBrand method, the episode offers actionable strategies for creating sound bites that cut through the noise and generate revenue. Through vivid analogies, client case studies, and engaging banter, Donald and Kyle reveal why “curiosity sound bites” are at the heart of effective marketing and how to implement the full formula using examples from brands like “You Need a Budget” and Oswald’s Mill Audio.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Problem with Most Marketing: Talking Over People’s Heads

• Many companies fail by using complex, “over the head” messaging that customers don’t grasp.
  • “You are talking over people's heads. CEO after CEO will come to me, and I say, your product is so good and you're so close to it, you no longer know how to talk about it simply. And that's what's costing you money.”
    — Donald Miller [00:00]
• Nuance is not your friend for first impressions; clarity and simplicity win.

2. The Messaging and Marketing Campaign Framework

• Messaging Campaign: Focuses on the precise words you use across all marketing channels (e.g., websites, emails, social). The idea: A handful of sound bites, repeated, can directly grow your business—if you find the right ones.
  • “I just have this one belief that you can find a few words that if you repeat them, will grow your business and you can come up with those words. And if you repeat them and they don’t grow your business, those aren’t your words.”
    — Donald Miller [06:05]

The 3-Phase Formula:

1. Curiosity
2. Enlightenment
3. Commitment

3. Phase One: Curiosity

What It Is:

• The initial sound bites that stop potential customers in their tracks—focused on survival or core problems.
  • “Curiosity is the most simple part of the campaign. But it's the most important part… The only thing I argue that piques a person's curiosity is survival.”
    — Donald Miller [06:49]
• Good curiosity sound bites call out the precise problem people face before ever mentioning your product.

How to Craft Them:

• Picture someone “in a hole” (problem state); your message should address the hole, not yet the solution.
  • “The only thing that is interesting is a problem. That's it… the problem actually posits a story question, will the hero get out of the hole?”
    — Donald Miller [09:19]
• Example: Instead of “We sell a gym,” say, “If you’re a busy executive who doesn’t have time to strength train, but feel like you’re slowly losing muscle…”

Real-World Example – “You Need a Budget” App:

• Five curiosity sound bites created for them:
  1. “Have you ever worried about money?”
  2. “If you have ever worried about money, it is probably because you are bad with money.”
     • “Now, we really kicked this around because are people going to identify as being bad with money?... But it also, you know, it necessitates. In order to download this app and use their system, you do need to admit that something's wrong.”
       — Donald Miller [25:06]
  3. “Download the You Need a Budget app.”
  4. “And we will help you get good with money.” (Became their new tagline)
  5. “So you never have to worry about money again.”

4. Phase Two: Enlightenment

What It Is:

• Once you have attention, provide all the information needed to help prospects feel informed: how it works, how much it costs, why it works.
  • “They are in enlightenment mode. And so you actually need...enlightenment material or enlightenment collateral.”
    — Donald Miller [12:47]
• Examples: white papers, videos, webinars, FAQs, etc.

Why Most Businesses Fail Here:

• Most brands skip Curiosity and start at Enlightenment, overwhelming customers who aren’t yet attentive or invested.
  • “When I look at most businesses...they’re always missing the front steps. So I want you to just imagine a house that has a giant front porch…with no front steps...that's how most businesses look to me.”
    — Donald Miller [19:26]

5. Phase Three: Commitment

What It Is:

• The ask: clear, direct messaging that tells the customer what to do next—“If you’re struggling with X, buying Y is the right decision.”
  • “If you're struggling with X, buying Y is the right decision.”
    — Donald Miller [14:10]
• This sound bite reassures buyers that taking action is the right move, closing the “story loop” you opened.

The Psychology:

• People delay buying when they aren’t sure if it’s the “right” decision—your job is to give them that assurance explicitly and simply.

Actionable Tactic:

• Donald suggests pausing the episode and sending an email to on-the-fence buyers explicitly stating that buying is the right decision per their problem.
  • “Pause the podcast and write that email and then come back and listen...because you can close that deal today.”
    — Donald Miller [15:01]

6. Visualizing the Framework: The House Analogy & Communication Triangle

• Five Front Steps: Curiosity (problem-focused sound bites)

• Front Porch: Enlightenment (explanatory collateral)

• Front Door: Commitment (the ask)

  • “Curiosity are those five front steps, enlightenment is the front porch, and then the front door is commitment.”
    — Donald Miller [17:38]

• Most businesses have no front steps—potential customers skip them, and the “house” looks uninviting.

7. Case Studies & Practical Creation of Sound Bites

You Need a Budget (YNAB):

• CEO admitted reluctance to use the word “budget”—wanted aspirational messaging.
• Donald demonstrated why the product should lead with clarity about the problem (“worried about money”), not aspirational lifestyle language (which is “inside the house/cult collateral”).
• Workshop method: Teams split to brainstorm problems solved, how solutions work, and arrived at a set of high-impact curiosity sound bites.

Oswald’s Mill Audio:

• One core curiosity sound bite: “Made without compromise.”
  • “How do you say these are the best speakers in the world without saying it? You say 'made without compromise.'”
    — Donald Miller [23:42]
• Enlightenment content: Founder breaks down “12 ways they’re made without compromise” through videos.

8. Guiding Principles & Common Mistakes

• Don’t change the story loop mid-message: Start and end with the same theme—if you open with “worried about money,” close with the resolution to that worry.
  • “Never show a gun in Act 1 that you don’t fire in Act 3…”
    — Donald Miller [27:08]
• Nuance is for later: Early messaging should be as simple as possible, at a third-grade reading level.
  • “Nuance is not your friend... This has to be third grade level messaging. That's what's going to grow your business.”
    — Donald Miller [31:25]
• You’re too close to your product: Most founders/teams lose the ability to explain it simply, assuming customers care about nuance.
  • “You're so smart, your product is so good and you're so close to it...you no longer know how to talk about it simply. And that's what's costing you.”
    — Donald Miller [31:42]

9. Implementation: Tools and Next Steps

• StoryBrand AI: $49/month self-service tool for small businesses to develop sound bites.
• Marketing Made Simple: Hire a trained StoryBrand guide for collaborative workshops.
• Certification Program: For marketers who want to help others, get certified at StoryBrand.com.

Key Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “These sound bites, they're worth tens of millions of dollars and they're just words.” — Donald Miller [00:13]
• “If you’re struggling with X, buying Y is the right decision.” — Donald Miller [14:10]
• “When you're coming up with your survival sound bites, nuance is not your friend.” — Donald Miller [31:25]
• “If you have ever worried about money, it is probably because you are bad with money.” — Donald Miller [25:06]
• “There's nothing more important [than curiosity sound bites].” — Donald Miller [34:59]
• “The five sound bites for You Need a Budget are so good that you can grow that business without any enlightenment collateral.” — Donald Miller [33:47]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00 – Importance of clear messaging; common CEO blindspots
• 06:49 – Introduction to the three-phase messaging framework
• 08:27 – The power of problem-based curiosity sound bites
• 14:10 – The commitment phase: “If you’re struggling with X, buying Y is the right decision”
• 17:38 – The “house” analogy and visualizing the StoryBrand triangle
• 20:12 – Case study: Creating curiosity sound bites for “You Need a Budget”
• 23:42 – “Made without compromise”: Oswald’s Mill Audio example
• 31:25 – Why nuance kills curiosity; oversimplify for success
• 33:47 – Five sound bites—sometimes enough to sell, even without “enlightenment” collateral

Practical Takeaways

• Audit your messaging: Does it genuinely call out your customer’s “hole,” or do you skip straight to features and explanations?
• Build and test 3–5 curiosity sound bites for your brand—repeat them everywhere.
• Don’t be afraid to provoke or challenge—curiosity bites should be simple and tap into real pain or need.
• Use enlightenment content only after you’ve sparked curiosity.
• When in doubt, ask: Are we building front steps, or just redecorating the porch?

Further Resources Mentioned

• YouTube: How Storytelling Can Change Your Business Fast
  (Video referenced as a visual companion to this episode; search YouTube for exact title)
• Marketing Made Simple
• StoryBrand AI
• StoryBrand Certification

Final Thoughts

This foundational episode breaks down exactly how and why businesses should focus on messaging that is brutally simple, sharply targeted at customer problems, and repeated consistently. The Curiosity – Enlightenment – Commitment structure is a roadmap for any organization seeking to attract, inform, and convert customers with the right words, in the right order.