#4: Football—Why It Became America’s Favorite Ritual

Summary

Episode #4: Football—Why It Became America’s Favorite Ritual
Presented by StoryBrand.ai
Hosts: Donald Miller and Kyle Reed
Guest: Christina Guidera, co-author of "Unreasonable Hospitality" and restaurateur
Release Date: January 27, 2025

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Introduction

In the fourth episode of "Why That Worked," presented by StoryBrand.ai, hosts Donald Miller and Kyle Reed explore the cultural phenomenon of football and its ascent to becoming America's favorite ritual. Joined by Christina Guidera, a bestselling author and restaurateur, the conversation delves into the multifaceted reasons behind football’s pervasive popularity, offering insights applicable to branding and effective communication.

Guest Background and Journey into Football ([00:25] - [03:10])

The episode opens with introductions as Christina shares her unexpected path to becoming a football fan. Originally a musician and not particularly interested in sports, Christina and her husband began watching football during the COVID-19 lockdowns as a way to stay engaged and entertained. They chose the Buffalo Bills due to their proximity and the team's improving performance, marking the beginning of a lasting football ritual ([01:12]).

Christina: “We started watching football on Sundays. That was a ritual to.” ([01:23])

The Rhythm of Football: Weekly and Yearly Cycles ([04:30] - [05:27])

Christina discusses how football seamlessly fit into her and her husband’s busy lives, establishing a manageable yet engaging weekly routine. Donald Miller expands on this by highlighting football’s structured rhythm—weekly games, playoffs, and the Super Bowl—which mirrors the natural ebb and flow of everyday life, providing consistent anticipation and something to look forward to.

Donald Miller: “Why hospitality work sounded too boring.” ([00:25] - [03:10]])

Community and Tradition ([10:21] - [12:48])

A significant portion of the discussion centers on football’s role in fostering community and tradition. Christina contrasts the solitary experience of watching TV shows with the communal nature of football, where built-in breaks facilitate social interactions and relationship building. This communal aspect is further illustrated through stories of fan experiences and traditions surrounding game days.

Christina: “It's a better way to consume it, honestly, in community.” ([10:21])

Donald Miller: “Imagine going to a theater with your buddies and they pause the movie every 60 seconds so you can talk about it.” ([10:57])

Storytelling and Engagement ([08:25] - [10:07])

Donald Miller posits that football excels in storytelling, perhaps even surpassing Hollywood scripts. Each play serves as a mini-drama with its own plot and subplots, maintaining constant viewer engagement through open and closed story loops. This dynamic storytelling keeps audiences emotionally invested throughout the game.

Donald Miller: “It's got the best story structure of any sport.” ([08:26])

Economic Factors and Media Integration ([32:11] - [33:43])

The conversation shifts to the economic strategies that bolster football’s dominance. Donald explains how football’s numerous commercial break opportunities—during timeouts, after scores, and between quarters—make it exceptionally lucrative for broadcasters. This integration with media and advertising significantly contributes to football’s financial success compared to other sports like soccer.

Donald Miller: “The NFL makes, like, four times the money as the NHL and like, twice as much money as professional baseball.” ([06:01])

Fantasy Football and Gambling ([24:21] - [27:22])

Fantasy football and gambling emerge as crucial factors deepening fan engagement. Christina advocates for fantasy football, arguing that it gamifies the viewing experience, making fans more invested by allowing them to compete with friends. Conversely, Donald expresses concerns about the potential negative impacts of gambling on the sport.

Christina: “It gives you a reason to want to watch every game.” ([25:08])

Donald Miller: “I think it would take years off my life to have $1 on this game.” ([26:31])

Cultural Identity and Loyalty ([31:22] - [32:11])

The discussion highlights the profound impact of cultural identity and loyalty in football fandom. Christina emphasizes how lifelong team loyalties often become integral parts of personal and regional identities, fostering deep emotional connections.

Christina: “People are loyal to teams that have never even won. Like, people love teams year after year through all of it. And it's kind of incredible.” ([31:22])

Donald Miller: “It's a shared experience, shared loyalty.” ([15:24])

Comparisons with Other Sports ([28:02] - [32:11])

Donald questions why soccer, despite its global popularity and accessibility, hasn’t achieved the same dominance in the U.S. as football. He attributes this to factors like the abundance of commercial breaks, which enhance revenue streams, and the existing foothold football has in American culture. Christina counters by highlighting football’s accessibility and communal aspects, suggesting that football’s ability to be fully understood and committed to by fans plays a significant role.

Donald Miller: “Commercial break opportunities. ... Every single timeout, after any score, kickoffs, anytime somebody's injured, replay reviews and change of possessions, plus floating 30 second timeouts.” ([32:46])

Christina: “It's the great equalizer. It doesn't matter what resource you have, you can play soccer.” ([22:25])

Conclusion ([33:28] - [33:43])

The episode concludes with reflections on football’s unique blend of storytelling, community, economic strategies, and cultural significance. Christina and the hosts express their appreciation for how football fosters community bonds and provides a shared cultural experience, solidifying its status as America’s favorite ritual.

Christina: “Actually, it gives me a little bit of hope in humanity.” ([31:59])

Donald Miller: “I'm so happy it exists.” ([33:40])

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Christina on Establishing Football as a Ritual:
  “We started watching football on Sundays. That was a ritual to.” ([01:23])

• Donald Miller on Football’s Storytelling Structure:
  “It's got the best story structure of any sport.” ([08:26])

• Christina on the Communal Aspect:
  “It's a better way to consume it, honestly, in community.” ([10:21])

• Christina on Fan Loyalty:
  “People are loyal to teams that have never even won. Like, people love teams year after year through all of it. And it's kind of incredible.” ([31:22])

• Donald Miller on Economic Factors:
  “The NFL makes, like, four times the money as the NHL and like, twice as much money as professional baseball.” ([06:01])

Key Insights and Conclusions

The episode identifies several key factors that contribute to football’s enduring popularity in America:

1. Structured Rhythm: The predictable weekly and yearly cycles provide routine and anticipation, ensuring sustained interest.
2. Community Engagement: Football fosters social interactions and shared experiences, enhancing community bonds.
3. Dynamic Storytelling: Multiple storylines within each game maintain constant viewer engagement through rich narrative structures.
4. Economic Viability: The sport's integration with media and advertising maximizes its financial success, making it more lucrative than other sports.
5. Enhanced Participation: Fantasy football and gambling add layers of personal investment, deepening fan engagement.
6. Cultural Identity: Deep-rooted team loyalties become integral parts of personal and regional identities, fostering emotional connections.

These elements collectively explain why football has entrenched itself as the quintessential American sport, offering valuable lessons for branding and effective communication strategies.

Final Thoughts

Christina and the hosts celebrate football’s ability to bring people together, create lasting traditions, and foster a sense of community and identity. Their discussion underscores the multifaceted nature of football’s success, blending emotional engagement with strategic economic planning to maintain its status as America’s favorite ritual.

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Listen to the full episode to delve deeper into these discussions and uncover more insights on why football reigns supreme in American culture.

Transcript

[Donald Miller]

Foreign.

[Kyle Reed]

You're listening to the why that Work podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you've ever wondered why certain brands, trends, or cultural phenomena find success while others don't, you're in the right place. Every week we unpack why something worked, then give you actionable insights that you can use in your own life. Now let's dive in with your hosts, Donald Miller and Kyle Reed.

[Will Guidera]

Will Guidera.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Will Guidera]

Welcome to why that Worked podcast.

[Christina]

Thank you so much.

[Will Guidera]

You've written a best selling book called Unreasonable Hospitality.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Will Guidera]

And have opened up one of the greatest restaurants in America. We're a part of that.

[Donald Miller]

One of the number one.

[Will Guidera]

Number one.

[Christina]

Yeah. In the world. But in the world.

[Donald Miller]

In America.

[Will Guidera]

Scratch all that. And also, America can't win here. At some point, we need to talk about hospitality, but today we're not talking about that. Today we are having you on the show because we sent you over a list of show things.

[Donald Miller]

Why hospitality work sounded too boring.

[Will Guidera]

Yeah.

[Christina]

No. No one, no one wants to. No one wants to read about hospitality. Apparently they do.

[Donald Miller]

By the truck.

[Will Guidera]

Only those in America. But we sent you over a list of topics and you picked one that you. You want to tell us what you picked as far as what we're talking about?

[Donald Miller]

This was fascinating. Immediately we were like, we're in. Yeah.

[Christina]

You guys sent me a long list.

[Will Guidera]

We did.

[Christina]

And I picked football.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Christina]

By the way, could seem pretty counterintuitive to anyone who's known me for a long time because.

[Donald Miller]

Why is that? I assumed. I haven't known you that long. Couple years, but I assumed. Oh, yeah. He seems like a football fan.

[Christina]

There's plenty of people that you could have brought on to host this with you that know a lot more about than I do. But here's my. My relationship to football. Over the course of my life. I. Growing up, I was a musician.

[Donald Miller]

Drummer.

[Christina]

I was a drummer. I was like, that was my world. That was my scene. I played a lot of sports, but I wasn't like a big sports fan. And then I started working, and I was working in restaurants, which means you work all the time. And so the idea that you have time to, like, watch any sport for any extended period of time, it's just not a real thing. And then Covid hit and my wife and I were living up in the country, and, you know, Covid, you just get bored at a certain point. You start looking for things to do. And we started watching football on Sundays. That was.

[Donald Miller]

You and your wife did this together?

[Christina]

We would do it together.

[Donald Miller]

Christina was in.

[Christina]

Christina Was in every single Sunday. And we'd have a lot of people come up and have Christina call. Yeah, yeah. Get her involved. Christina's totally into it now.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[Christina]

But we started watching football, and now, whatever it is, five years later, every single weekend revolves around when the Bills are playing. And we picked the Bills. Cause we were living upstate in New York, and so we're like.

[Donald Miller]

And you also had good timing, by the way.

[Christina]

They were really starting to, like, really become good timing.

[Donald Miller]

And Josh Allen's very helpful.

[Christina]

And if you're, like, opting into a team at that point, you're obviously going to not pick a terrible team. But that was the team closest to where we lived at that point, because they were close.

[Will Guidera]

That's okay.

[Christina]

We were in upstate New York.

[Will Guidera]

But you didn't, like, grow up with. You know, your dad was a Buffalo Bills fan.

[Christina]

No.

[Will Guidera]

Okay. That's why you picked them.

[Christina]

And in the time since then, Listen, one of the things my dad says all the time is that one of the secrets to happiness is always having something to look forward to. And I think you get older, you have kids, and we talk about that on the show, filling up the weekends. And that one game once a week has become something we look forward to. It was a ritual to. Yeah, it became a ritual. And by the way, it's a manageable ritual. When you compare the NFL to the NBA or to Major League Baseball, like, it's. I can consume it all.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Christina]

I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

[Will Guidera]

Yes.

[Christina]

And it becomes. I have a lot more thoughts. But it's become this moment every single week where it's me and my wife, whatever friends happen to be around. And, like, I am emotionally devastated when they lose.

[Donald Miller]

Really.

[Christina]

And I am extraordinarily uplifted.

[Donald Miller]

Your identity is associated now. You're wearing a bill shirt.

[Christina]

I'm wearing a bill shirt. Bills, 100%.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Will Guidera]

And so I wrote down that point as well as, like, why does football work? The weekly rhythm. Yeah, it literally follows. It follows the perfect script. You have the lead up to the game. You have the game. You have post game. Right. The next couple days, your dialogue. Oh, man. What if we did this? What if we did that?

[Donald Miller]

Television stations podcast everything that are devoted. Absolutely.

[Will Guidera]

Then Wednesday hits you kind of. You kind of shift the schedule to, like, who are we playing next? Lead up, lead up. And then for some reason, Sunday afternoon is the perfect time to turn a football game on.

[Christina]

But it's not just the weekly rhythm. It's the yearly rhythm. So you go. You're what? We're watching the season right now. We're getting into the holidays. It's starting. Like, it really mirrors what's happening in our lives now. It's getting intense. Right. There's going to be football on Saturday this week because they know we're all rampant. Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Tomorrow night.

[Christina]

And then we get into the most depressing time of the entire year. Now we have the Super Bowl.

[Will Guidera]

Now we have the Super Bowl.

[Christina]

Okay. Now everyone's so bummed because football's overweight. Oh, my gosh. Here's the combine. Oh, my gosh. Wait, it's been a couple weeks. All right, let's do the draft.

[Donald Miller]

Slowly amping up.

[Christina]

Oh, but wait a minute. Now I miss it. No, no, no, it's okay. Now we can follow training. Wait. Okay, now the season has started again.

[Donald Miller]

There's an Arena League up now that comes right after the Super Bowl. They are before.

[Christina]

Right. Do you think you can stay plugged into your team?

[Will Guidera]

They did that on purpose. Do you think they strategically figured out we're going to dominate? Because that's one of the conversations you see, you know, in the spring they take like. That's right when NBA playoffs are going on and the draft crushes the NBA playoffs. Do you think the NFL took. Intentionally did that?

[Christina]

I have to believe they did. I mean, like, listen, the NFL would.

[Donald Miller]

Run year round if it weren't such a brutal sport.

[Christina]

For sure. But I'm saying they've figured out how to make it run year round.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Christina]

In a way that, like, you're.

[Donald Miller]

I talked to Bill Haslam. He bought the Predators hockey team, and I think he said we should know this information. But he said that the NFL makes, like, four times the money as the NHL and like, twice as much money as professional baseball.

[Christina]

Oh, yeah.

[Donald Miller]

With 120 less games a year. I mean, that's insane. That's insane.

[Christina]

But I mean, like, the idea. Have you guys ever watched a TV show and you loved it and then the season ended and it didn't come back for another year and a half and you never, like, fell back into it?

[Will Guidera]

Yeah, I just did that with Yellowstone. Yeah.

[Christina]

I think the NFL is smart enough to know that if you check out, you might not check back in. And so they give you a good reason to never actually have to check out. Every year you see your favorite baseball team that might be the same team for three, four, five years, you. No matter how bad. I was talking to a guy on my team, Billy, who's a big Giants fan, and he's like, we're waiting for the draft next year, could be our year.

[Will Guidera]

Number one pick.

[Christina]

Right. You always have hope. That's the other thing. You never actually lose a sense of hope in your gm.

[Donald Miller]

I get sad after the super bowl, and I get sad specifically because there's no more football.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

I mean, you know, draft is all great, but the number of people who are watching the draft versus number of people watching games is, like, minuscule.

[Christina]

Yeah. But it gives you the ability to stay invested.

[Donald Miller]

Well, sure, you're reading all that stuff, but when it's over, I actually get. I get pretty sad.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And then it is like an emotional. I'm a Seahawks fan, 20 years in Portland, so I became a Seahawks fan. And the emotional investment is so freaking high. And, I mean, when they ran up to the super bowl twice, that was some of the best memories and the best experience I've had in life.

[Will Guidera]

If they would have just ran the ball.

[Christina]

Did you know. So you know Russell Wilson at Canlis. Canliss, that's right.

[Donald Miller]

He would eat, like, a duck or something. Right.

[Christina]

Canlis was a restaurant in Seattle by our good friend Brian Canlis. The chef at Canlis at that point. Point had come from my restaurant, and he was serving the same duck, more or less, that we served at our restaurant.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Christina]

So he would go to Canlis every single time before the game and eat that duck. And when they played in the super bowl in New York, he came to eleven Madison to have the duck the day before the game.

[Donald Miller]

Unbelievable.

[Will Guidera]

That's a great story.

[Donald Miller]

For the first one or the second one they lost the one.

[Christina]

The one they didn't.

[Donald Miller]

He did throw an interception at the end. I mean. Well, let me tell you my theory on why it works, and it's because it's got the best story structure of any sport. And what I mean by that is there are plots and subplots, right? So there's the main plot of who's gonna win this game. And then you have. You have villains and you have good guys, and it's all contextual on who you're, where you're from and what your team is. And then there are even worse villains than other villains, right? There's your arch rival. There's your, you know, your conference, you know, rivals. There's all of that. Then you've got the main plot, who's going to win the game. And then inside of that, you actually have. Every drive is a story. So there's a plot, which is the game. And then every single drive is. Are they going to get to the end zone. So that's one drive.

[Christina]

There's like micro stakes and then every.

[Donald Miller]

Play is a story. Are they going to make, you know, they're going to get a few yards, Are they going to get 20 yards and get 30 yards? Are they going to lose a few yards? Are they going to get sacked? Is there going to be a turnover? There are story questions and open story loops, multiple ones every minute of this game. Now, here's the thing that's different than basketball and hockey and all that stuff. The story starts and ends. So the story is over at the end of the play and now we start another story and it's the next play and it starts and it ends. So there are little breaks between plots and subplots and they're really not in basketball. It's not like you drive down, you miss the shot. All right, stop the game. All right, now let's start over.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

So each down is a drama. Then there are players, storylines, there are strategic battles in terms of how are they going to handle the run. This is a running team, how's the defense going to handle that, all that kind of stuff. There are momentum shifts.

[Christina]

Well, I want to pause on the thing you said about the smaller stories with breaks in between. Yeah, Because, I mean, listen, one of the reasons why I think most sports work to some extent or another is the idea that you can watch television, which is how we mostly consume these things. It's a better way to consume it, honestly, in community. So when I watch a TV show or a movie with you, we're basically as two people sitting next to each other in silence, staring at a screen for however long. When you're watching sports with people, you are in community, you are building relationships while you have this thing to facilitate.

[Donald Miller]

Imagine going to a theater with your buddies and they pause the movie every 60 seconds so you can talk about it. Right. That's the amazing. It's accidental. I'm not saying they strategically created it this way, but that is why this thing is so much more powerful than Hollywood.

[Christina]

But that's why I think sports on TV work generally. The reason why I love what you said about football is because it gives you the ability to engage with the people around you and not fall out of the thing you're watching. It's almost like built in conversation breaks. Whereas if I start talking to you during a basketball game, we might miss something dramatic. Whereas football's like, you can stop, talk to your buddy for a second. Oh, okay. Now it's time to Watch again and.

[Donald Miller]

Think about, like, the adrenaline and the urgency and the intrigue of like, we just lost two yards. So now it's third and five, Right. And you're just going, are they going to be able to make this up with what's probably going to be a pass play? Right. Are they going to be that story? And now I'm glued to the TV to find out. It's using plots, subplots, open story loops, closing story loops. Better than any Hollywood script. And it's real. It's like it's actually real. That's what's fascinating. I mean, you know, we talk about community building every year. I've got a group of fishing buddies, we call ourselves the Lions. We go fishing in the summer and then in the winter, all of them fly to my house. My wife leaves. We use every bed in the house. I get a 200 inch screen and rear, project the national championship. We'll have three TVs going. We hire a chef, there's enormous amounts of booze. We're there for. We're there for three days. And that's how it ends. It ends with that game. And it's all about watching that game. And this year, Oregon Ducks, hopefully, by God, hopefully they'll be in it.

[Christina]

The one other thing, by the way.

[Donald Miller]

By the time this airs, people will know they were in it. Yeah.

[Christina]

Every time you watch pretty much every other sport, maybe over the course of the entire game, there's like one or two moments where you're like, gosh, this is a big moment. You could say that 20 times throughout a football game. Like every time they're fourth and one and they decide to go for it, you're like, this is it. The entire game is like, this is. And you know that's not true. But there's all these moments where the pressure seems so much more intense than it actually is.

[Will Guidera]

Like the kicker who misses the field goal in the first quarter. You know, that story's already developed because you know those three points are going to come back to haunt them later. Yeah, they miss the extra point, that one point going to hurt later.

[Donald Miller]

You guys ever thought about football and all sports in some ways, especially college football, as proxy wars, that if basically if these teams didn't play each other, Alabama would go to war against Texas?

[Christina]

Like, this is the pressure release bell. That's exactly it.

[Donald Miller]

I uphold that theory and believe there's truth to it.

[Will Guidera]

The hatred runs could run that deep.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

I mean, well, just. Is it a coincidence that there's not been another civil War since the NFL.

[Will Guidera]

So you would say it's football. Thank you. Football.

[Christina]

That causation and correlation.

[Donald Miller]

I'm actually curious. I mean, I do believe that we have tribal identities. We need to work out our. Who's better, who's dominant. You know, is it Alabama? And inside of Alabama, by the way, is it Auburn or Alabama?

[Will Guidera]

Big deal.

[Donald Miller]

Right. Or is it Alabama or Georgia? Is it Georgia or Texas? Right. I mean, I think there's. I think these are actually proxy wars.

[Will Guidera]

That was one of the things I wrote down, which existed forever. Why I think football works is community and tradition. So you.

[Donald Miller]

So it's very sweet of you, Will.

[Will Guidera]

You were interesting because you're a newer fan. You know, you picked it up. You didn't grow up above. There's no story about getting a sweater when you were a kid.

[Christina]

No.

[Will Guidera]

But there are people out there who have been lifelong Packer fans or lifelong Michigan.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. It's part of their family.

[Will Guidera]

That's. Those are the people who, when they go to Thanksgiving gatherings, that's all they have to talk about with their. With their siblings. Maybe some people like that. Right. That is a big deal. The day after Thanksgiving or that Saturday after Thanksgiving, we watch Michigan, Ohio State. Because it's Saturday after every Thanksgiving. Right. So I think football works because it's one of the main sports that as you grow up as a kid, you're indoctrinated into. Like, that's my team. Most families, it's a thing that connects us.

[Donald Miller]

It's a shared experience, shared loyalty.

[Will Guidera]

Absolutely. And you grow up that way, you don't really stray too far from the family. Like, if you grow up, this is my team. My dad liked that team.

[Donald Miller]

I married a New Orleans girl who comes from just the most wonderful family, maybe the most wonderful family I've ever. So let me throw them under the bus. I go to New Orleans. I'm getting.

[Christina]

All you're trying to say is that being said.

[Donald Miller]

That being said, I'm a Seahawks fan. I'm living in Portland, she's in D.C. then I start meeting her family, go to Thanksgiving, all this stuff, and it comes out, and they are die hard, die hard Saints fans. And I'm always giving them, you know, shit. We get married on a Saturday, on a Sunday. We fly to Seattle on the way to Hawaii for our honeymoon. We stay for Monday Night Football, which is New Orleans versus Seattle. And I mean, I'm talking crap to these guys, all her brothers and stuff like that, the whole time. I happened to interview Pete Carroll, I think, the year before, and so he invited me on the field. So I've got my new wife. We go to Canlas the night before. We got my wife, my only wife, not my new wife. My only wife on the field texting.

[Christina]

With her field wife is still at home, all this kind of stuff and.

[Donald Miller]

I'm sitting there in the stands going, if we don't win this game, they are effectively not giving me their daughter. They still have. They still.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

And we won the game. And emotionally it felt like she's mine now.

[Christina]

Like you were a huge Saints fan.

[Donald Miller]

She was making my daughter.

[Christina]

Yeah, like I was.

[Will Guidera]

It was your masculinity.

[Donald Miller]

It was something on the line in that game and thank God we won that.

[Will Guidera]

What a way to start a marriage. Let's go to a football game against the team that you love.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, that seemed to.

[Will Guidera]

It worked.

[Kyle Reed]

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[Donald Miller]

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[Kyle Reed]

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[Donald Miller]

Here's another thing, another thing from that story that is beautiful about football. There's a guy, he's a New Orleans Saints fan and he's called Whistleblower. He has a Saints jersey on, he's got Whistleblower on the name, on the.

[Christina]

Back plate of his head behind that guy at a Saints game once.

[Donald Miller]

Unbelievable. And he's got a giant whistle for a helmet head and he's whistling ear piercing annoying whistles with like two fingers in his mouth, the whole frickin. And he only does it when the stadium is quiet because our team has the ball and we're like two rows behind us. You've experienced this guy, he's any unbelievably in New Orleans. I sat there, he's unbelievably annoying and everybody is just yelling at him. Would you please fricking cut that out. And he will not stop the police come. The police come, and they go up to him, and they're ready to take this guy away because enough people have complained. And all of the Saints fans start yelling at the police, just like, dude, what are you doing? He's a fan.

[Christina]

He's. That guy.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. Like, he's. Come on, get out of here. Blah, blah. You know, come on. He's just, why are you doing this? They're like, well, somebody complains, Sid, they want us to take. Why would you take him away? The police leave, and everybody starts attacking him again. That also says something nice about Seahawks fan, because, God, at Green Bay, they would have just let him go.

[Christina]

Yeah, but I think what you're talking about is the power of ritual and tradition, which, by the way, you alluded to, like, every Thanksgiving or, you know, that that guy, for however long he lives, is always going to be at those games. You know, I mean, even, like, you talk about tailgating, like, the amount of ritual and tradition that has organically, over time, been built around this sport more than any other sport.

[Donald Miller]

More than any other.

[Christina]

And I think people.

[Donald Miller]

I think it goes back to the 17 games also. You can't do that 130 times.

[Will Guidera]

No, you can't.

[Christina]

No.

[Will Guidera]

In baseball, people aren't tailgating for hockey games.

[Donald Miller]

No, no.

[Christina]

Well. And I also think people want to feel the capacity to consume all of something, and it's just one of the few sports that you actually have that capacity.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. Let me ask you this. In America, I mean, football dominates. I've got season tickets to Nashville Soccer club, and we love it. And I bought them specifically because as Emmeline grows up, I want her to have these cultural memories of. Of. We get in this 1978 FJ40. We go down to the stadium. You know, we walk in. I wanted to be an NSC fan, and it's often like watching fish in an aquarium. I mean, I don't want to criticize the sport too much, but I'm like, this is a. My buddy in Portland, I was never a soccer fan. My buddy was like, you know, he traveled backpack Europe once he comes back as a soccer fan, and he's like, okay, Don, four in the morning, I'm gonna come pick you up. We're gonna go to this bar. You're gonna watch the World Cup. I'm gonna make you a soccer fan. I go, four in the morning, we're at a bar, and the game ends in a tie. And I'm like, all right. He goes, don, tomorrow morning, four in the morning, I go, game Is in a tie. Third game. This is the. When in the opening rounds, you can have ties. Third game against who versus who, I don't care. Ends in a tie. And I was looking. Your sport is flawed. And he just looks at me in defeat because he can't argue with it. Now we're going to get hate mail on this one. Soccer is by far the most popular sport in the world, and it makes billions and billions more than football. Why? I mean, let me tell you this. I'm an NSC fan. I have season tickets. I enjoy going. So I'm not saying. I am saying, like, football is a more entertaining and engaging sport. So why is it that soccer takes off globally? I mean, it's older, you know, it's 200 plus years old.

[Christina]

I mean, this is totally unfamiliar.

[Donald Miller]

Anybody can play it.

[Christina]

Well, no, it is the. Listen, you are always going to be most prone to love the thing that you grew up playing. And it is the sport of all of the major sports that requires the.

[Donald Miller]

Least money, the least.

[Christina]

We have a ball. We can go play out there.

[Will Guidera]

Yes.

[Christina]

Oh, every other sport requires something else.

[Donald Miller]

It requires a tape ball and newspaper.

[Christina]

It's the great equalizer. It doesn't matter what resource you have, you can play soccer.

[Donald Miller]

I'll tell you what, There are times there are plays that I've seen in sc, you know, Mukhtar, I mean, that are. They defy humanity. What these guys are actually doing is.

[Christina]

This where you try to like, make up a little bit of the hate mail. Now you're like, no, no, no. But I actually really like soccer.

[Donald Miller]

No, no, he's proving.

[Will Guidera]

Let me finish.

[Donald Miller]

And those plays happen twice a year.

[Christina]

No, no, no, no. I'm digging deeper. But when they do.

[Donald Miller]

Here you go. This is one of the things that I researched. Why? Why, you know, why does football work also soccer, even to a more degree, Partial reinforcement. The sport does not give you what you want every time. Yeah. So every year I'm like, this could be the Seahawks year. This could be Geno Smith. He's been a back. He's going to. He's coming.

[Christina]

This is coming in. But it is the one sprint where there's enough people on the team that you could draft a couple guys and they could actually change it. There's reason for a sense of optimism, even if it very rarely plays out in the way you want it to.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Will Guidera]

All right, I got one.

[Donald Miller]

Was it Maslow's or not Maslow's? Was it Pavlov's dog that he did? If you reinforce the Dogs, only partially. They salivate more if you give them food. Every time, it becomes predictable and they're not as engaged. And I think football gives you that. It gives you that on every play, on every drive, and in every game and every season. It's partial.

[Will Guidera]

And that's why we can't have it year round. Because imagine if they're just like, well, everybody loves this. Let's just keep the season going.

[Donald Miller]

It has to end.

[Will Guidera]

It has to stop.

[Christina]

That's right.

[Will Guidera]

All right, I got one for you guys. You have yet to mention. Let's see. If you think about this, let me say. Have you ever watched the Red Zone Channel?

[Donald Miller]

Yes.

[Will Guidera]

I think football works because technology has risen to the demand of the Red Zone channel. Dfs. You know what DFS is?

[Donald Miller]

What's dfs?

[Will Guidera]

Daily fantasy sports. So you. You play fantasy football. This guy doesn't know he's talking about.

[Christina]

Do you really think that fantasy football ruins the sport?

[Donald Miller]

It ruins, yes. Because you're sitting there with a buddy watching the Seahawks, and they're rooting for one guy on the other team. I'm like, what is this?

[Christina]

See, man, I would challenge that. Yeah.

[Will Guidera]

I think it makes it bigger because here's why. So you're a Buffalo Bill fan? I'm a Rams fan. I can only watch the Rams play one time, but on Sunday, I can sit there, if my wife will let me, for seven hours and watch the entire day.

[Christina]

It gives you a reason to want to watch every game.

[Donald Miller]

And that's every game for any team.

[Christina]

For any team.

[Donald Miller]

That happened, by the way, in college football this year. Because now that there's 12 teams in the playoffs.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

A lot of other teams matter to me.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

Right. Like Penn State. Are they any good? We might meet them. Right. And now you're watching other games that I could care less about before, but they might play the Ducks, you know, And I don't. So I get that. But fantasy sport, it's almost like there's two seasons happening in one.

[Christina]

Yeah, but no, but here's the thing. I think that anytime you can gamify something such that everyone that's watching is also in some way participating, they're going to be that much more invested in everyone's success.

[Donald Miller]

So you're saying this is another reason.

[Christina]

That it's getting even more interesting with fantasy football. People are not just watching anymore. They're not just following along, they're engaging. They are playing like everyone playing fantasy football. They're basically on the field now. Like they think that they are. Josh Allen because they've fielded their team. They are going to win, by the way. What feels better than competing with and hopefully beating your friends at something like. Yeah, and now you and I could be watching. We could be a fan of the same team. I still might beat you. And that's kind of awesome. It's like another depth of.

[Donald Miller]

What about gambling?

[Will Guidera]

Yeah, gambling is. Gambling is a massive part.

[Donald Miller]

You gamble. You gamble on. Do you gamble every Sunday?

[Will Guidera]

It depends on how well I'm doing. If I'm down a little bit. No, it's true, though. It's kind of sad. It's gotten to the place where I called. I got to have a little juice on the game to make me interested. And so that is part of it is the participation of watching that and so pretty regularly.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, I can't do it.

[Christina]

I can't do it.

[Donald Miller]

It gets my blood pressure. I think it would take years off my Life to have $1 on this game would take years off my life.

[Christina]

I'm so bad with that, too.

[Donald Miller]

I don't know if it's an identity thing. I am actually a loser who made bad decisions rather than. My favorite thing is I can't believe they lost. But if they win, I'm like, can't believe we won. That was awesome. We won and they lost. Have you ever noticed that? Yeah, when they lose, it's them.

[Christina]

Oh, my God.

[Donald Miller]

Your identity is actually associated with this.

[Will Guidera]

Yeah, I think fantasy football, gambling, red zone.

[Donald Miller]

What's your big reason? Number one reason why football works. Yeah, all three of us have to answer this. Number one reason why that worked. In hindsight, looking back on football, by the way, I will submit that college football is actually more entertaining than the NFL.

[Will Guidera]

Yeah, I think you're crazy, but that's really. Yeah, I watch college football. I love the NFL.

[Donald Miller]

So many more dynamics. Rivalries are so much more heated. So can I, like, you could say the Falcons are playing their arch rivals or whatever. And I'm like, I didn't know they were rivals. Auburn plays Alabama. Michigan plays Ohio State. Come on.

[Christina]

Well, listen, people, the reason I disagree with you is my number one reason that football, and in this case the NFL work so well. I believe people inherently are bored. We need things to look forward to, but we want to get really excited about things that we can fully commit to and fully understand. The NFL gives you so much and not too much. College football fans, in my experience, are more rabid than NFL fans, but there are fewer of them because there's just more that you need to understand.

[Donald Miller]

May I Contend with that point.

[Christina]

Yeah, the horseshoe.

[Donald Miller]

Over 100,000 people in the stands. Michigan, over 100,000 people in the stands. Texas A and M. Kyle Field. Over 100,000 people in the stands. Find me an NFL stadium that has anything.

[Christina]

No, no, no. But these. There's like specific parts of America where that is the case. You go anywhere in America and you're gonna meet a lot of NFL fans. The college football thing is more regionally focused.

[Donald Miller]

The only argument I would give you there is every college football in New.

[Christina]

York City really cares about college football. Unless you came from one of those places.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. New York City is a bastion of normalcy. I think. I think. Yeah, I think the voters just voted on that.

[Christina]

Are we doing this? Let's go.

[Donald Miller]

I will say this. Every college football player's dream is to win a Super Bowl.

[Will Guidera]

Yeah, that's true.

[Donald Miller]

So it is the pinnacle.

[Christina]

No, but I'm just saying I think you need to be more into football to love college football than you need to be into football to love the NFL.

[Donald Miller]

That's probably true.

[Christina]

I think that's your.

[Will Guidera]

Well, to piggyback a little bit off wills, I think football encapsulates all the things. It's got a great storyline, it's tons of great. There's a rhythm to. It's weekly. I don't have to watch every game to understand what's going on. I can tune in on Sunday. I know the players. So that's my difference. In like NFL versus college, it's hard to keep up with. Unless you're just a die hard Tennessee fan, you do not know who their quarterback is. But for the NFL, I know pretty much every player in the major positions so I can connect there. And then for me, why does football work? Is the ability to watch and keep. Be entertained by the red zone. I. I don't watch a game by itself.

[Donald Miller]

You mean the Red zone channel.

[Will Guidera]

Only watch. I only watch on.

[Donald Miller]

It was working before.

[Christina]

Wow.

[Will Guidera]

It was. I'm just saying for me, why does football work today?

[Donald Miller]

So do you not have a team that you sit down?

[Will Guidera]

I mean, I like to. I will watch the Rams play for sure. I'm. I'm a Rams fan.

[Christina]

Are you from.

[Will Guidera]

No, I'm from St. Louis. So the Rams moved to St. Louis.

[Christina]

That's right. That's right.

[Will Guidera]

When I was a teenager.

[Donald Miller]

And then that must have been heartbreaking for you.

[Will Guidera]

Horrible.

[Donald Miller]

Because they won a Super Bowl.

[Will Guidera]

They did. And I. So I moved to Nashville and so when the Rams moved to la, I said, well, I moved, they moved. I'LL stick with them and, but there's a loyalty there. See, that's the interesting thing. Like living in Nashville now, I, I, the Titans, if they win, cool.

[Donald Miller]

But they make it hard.

[Will Guidera]

I don't care. There's something in me about my city like that. It's, it's, I'm prideful and I cannot cheer for another team unless it's my city. So there's something to be said about that too.

[Donald Miller]

Identity association.

[Will Guidera]

For me, those are the reasons why I think football works for me and for in America and beyond.

[Christina]

Well, you just said something I just want to underline, which I think is kind of remarkable about football and some sports, but exaggerated in football. In the NFL and college football. Like, we live in a culture where we're mostly fair weather fans about most things. Like we celebrate someone until they start to fail and then you throw them to the wolves. Right. Like that's, we love doing that. But gosh, people are loyal to teams that have never even won. Like, people love teams year after year after year through all of it. And it's kind of incredible.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Actually it gives me a little bit of hope in humanity.

[Donald Miller]

All right, here's my reason that I think football took off in the way it has. It would have taken off anyway, but we're talking about massively taking off.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

The reason is the money. There is so much money. I mean, everybody says follow the money. It's true. Listen to this. Compared to you say, why didn't soccer take off in America? One, football had kind of got a foothold here and soccer is taking off here. Football got a foothold. One of the reasons soccer didn't take off is you can't put commercials in it. It wasn't until you could green screen the thing on the sidelines and actually get people to pay you money while you're watching a game. There's no breaks. There's a break at halftime.

[Christina]

Yeah, that's right.

[Donald Miller]

That's it. Listen to this. Commercial break opportunities. End of every quarter, two minute warning. Every single timeout, after any score, kickoffs, anytime somebody's injured, replay reviews and change of possessions, plus floating 30 second timeouts. You can literally, you can. How many times have you watched football? When they'll run a play and they go to commercial, they'll come back, they'll run a play and they go to commercial. But the story loop is open so big, like they're on the 12 yard line, guys.

[Christina]

Baseball has all the commercials. And baseball had a foothold before football.

[Donald Miller]

Right.

[Christina]

And it still did better and the NFL still did. Still came in. Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

The other thing we didn't talk about, it's gladiators. It's violent.

[Christina]

Yeah. I mean, the thing is, whatever the reason why it works, who cares? I'm just so happy.

[Donald Miller]

I'm so happy it exists.

[Kyle Reed]

Thanks for listening to the why that Worked podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you like the show, follow wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're Enjoying this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and leave a comment letting us know what you think and what you want the guys to talk about in a future episode. Curious about how StoryBrand AI can help you create clear, effective messages messaging? Well, you can try it out right now and create a free, customized tagline for your business. Just go to storybrand AI. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.