Noah Kahan

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin (NPR) — Episode Summary
Guest: Noah Kahan
Release Date: May 21, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Wild Card with Rachel Martin dives into the life and inner world of singer-songwriter Noah Kahan, recently acclaimed for his album The Great Divide. Rachel uses her signature card-pulling interview approach to evoke candid reflections on mental health, creativity, family, belonging, fame, and finding happiness. The conversation is warm, sincere, and often funny, with both host and guest sharing vulnerabilities and trading quick-fire, relatable takes on everything from family ghosts to Oreos.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Mental Health: Anxiety, Depression, and Acceptance

• Opening Question: What's an answer you've stopped searching for?
  [00:22]

  • Noah confesses he “stopped searching” for the moment he'd finally be happy after being diagnosed with depression as a kid.

    “I, like, accepted that it is part of my life and something that I could treat and manage. I was not going to be happy.” — Noah ([00:22])

• Managing Mental Health:

  • Noah explains the evolution from seeking a “cure” to learning ongoing management and self-acceptance.
  • Has found solace in talking openly, both within his family and in his music.

• Animals & Comfort:
  [07:44]

  • The family’s German shepherds were an emotional buffer. “Having animals in the house was, like, a great buffer between, like, me feeling like I didn’t want to talk to anybody about it, but also didn’t want to talk to nobody about it.” — Noah ([07:44])

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2. Family, Childhood, and Roots

• Extraordinary in the Ordinary:
  [02:01]

  • Noah shares a mystical family story about hearing voices in the woods on his father’s Vermont property, giving a sense of shared magic and comfort:

    “It almost felt like there’s...this older presence or spirit...so it’s a very ordinary path through the woods to a little meadow, but it’s like haunted in a cool way.” ([02:01])

• Upbringing:

  • Family openness about mental health (“it just was like normal dinner table conversation”) and encouragement of love for nature and animals.

• Homesickness & Stardom:
  [10:15]

  • Discusses deep homesickness while touring, especially poignant as he was constantly singing songs about home, making the distance feel sharper.

    “I’m singing these songs about home all the time...I felt very far away in that moment, and then knew at the same time that home was never going to be the same because I had just sung about it for three years.” — Noah ([10:15])

• Impact of Fame on Home:

  • Worries about having “exposed” his Vermont home and making it a “tourist destination,” but finds locals remain grounded.

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3. Music, Creativity, and the Pressure of Success

• The Great Divide:
  [16:23]

  • Inspiration pulls from multiple friendships and their unspoken struggles.

    *“I have been both characters in that story. The person that is struggling with something silently...and I’ve also been the friend that sits and doesn’t ask and doesn’t want to know...”— Noah ([16:23])

• Writing as Therapy — and Challenge:
  [21:24]

  • Songwriting used to be purely therapeutic; now, with fame and expectations, he struggles with burnout and imposter syndrome.

    “Songwriting doesn’t have to be for anybody else. And I really stopped writing songs for any album. I just started writing music because I wanted to see if I could do it still.” ([21:57])

• Navigating Family and Artistic Honesty:
  [19:33]

  • Early in his career, he didn’t communicate with family about the personal content in his lyrics, leading to lessons in transparency.

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4. Self-Perception, Laziness, and Impatience

• Unlearning Laziness:
  [23:48]

  • Noah always thought he was lazy, but realized he just needed more rest and permission to recharge.

    “I’m not lazy. I just, like, am somebody that needs their own certain timeline of rest and recharging.” — Noah ([24:29])

• Impatience:
  [32:58]

  • Admits to being highly impatient and admires patience in others, especially his wife:

    “I just want everything to be fast. And I want traffic, my experience, going grocery shopping, playing golf… I just want it to be over.” — Noah ([33:09])

• Rest Rituals:

  • Favorite downtime: watching long cuts of The Office, chips & salsa, and (many) Oreos.

    “All I want to do is lie on the couch and watch TV and eat junk food.” ([23:52])

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5. Fame, Belonging, and Overcoming “Imposter Syndrome”

• Early Performing:
  [27:10]

  • Felt out of place at open mics as a kid, but found pride in gradually winning over audiences.

• First Major Stage (Fenway Park):
  [31:27]

  “That was like the one time that I stepped on stage and like, this is like, I’ve earned this. I deserve this.” ([31:27])

• Imposter Feelings Persist:

  • Despite big moments, still often feels “in over his head” in the music industry, using performance as proof to himself of belonging.

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6. The Question of Happiness, Contentment, and Acceptance

• Stopped Searching for ‘Happiness’:
  [43:50]

  • Realized happiness isn’t a permanent state but a collection of moments and self-acceptance.

    “I don’t think happiness is one state. I think happiness is being content within yourself…being okay with the flaws and the struggles you have.” ([43:50])

• Therapy & Managing, Not Curing:
  [46:02]

  • Acceptance came not from parents or therapists, but lived experience and finding validation in “managing” rather than “fixing.”

    “Don’t believe everything you think.” (Bumper sticker that changed his view) ([47:10])

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7. Humor & Humanity

• Ordinary Joys:

  • Jokes about Oreos, shrinking childhood candies, and hypothetical “Planet Golf” (and why he wants to visit before he’s old).
  • Openly pokes fun at his own flaws and quirks (e.g., impatience, comparing himself to others, addictive personality).

• Dreams for the Future:
  [40:28]

  • Looks forward to being able to be “grumpy” without social repercussion and hopes to be the elder at a multi-generational family table.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|------------|-------| | 00:22 | Noah | "When am I going to be happy?…I accepted that it is part of my life and something I could treat and manage. I was not going to be happy." | | 02:01 | Noah | “It almost felt like there’s...this older presence or spirit...it’s like haunted in a cool way.” | | 07:44 | Noah | "Having animals in the house was, like, a great buffer…having a little friend there that couldn’t rat on you." | | 10:15 | Noah | “I felt really far away in that moment…every night I’m kind of giving this reminder of this other life that I had.” | | 16:23 | Noah | “I have been both characters in that story…reaching out for help in ways that people don’t see.” | | 21:49 | Noah | “It was creating all this imposter syndrome and this pressure and this pain…” | | 24:29 | Noah | “I’m not lazy. I just like am somebody that needs their own certain timeline of rest and recharging.” | | 31:27 | Noah | “That was like the one time that I stepped on stage… I’ve earned this. I deserve this.” | | 33:09 | Noah | “I want traffic, my experience, going grocery shopping, playing golf… I just want it to be over.” | | 43:50 | Noah | "I've stopped searching for, like, when am I going to be happy?...not putting the pressure on myself to be something at all has allowed me just to be whoever I am." | | 47:10 | Noah | "Don't believe everything you think." | | 48:44 | Noah | "It's an amazing privilege to be trusted with those feelings from people..." |

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Timestamps for Notable Sections

• [00:22] – Mental health and acceptance
• [02:01] – Family memories, New England woods, “haunted in a cool way”
• [07:44] – The comfort of animals in mental health
• [10:15] – Homesickness on tour, giving pieces of home away
• [16:23] – The story behind The Great Divide
• [21:24] – Creative pressures & rediscovering therapeutic songwriting
• [24:29] – Unlearning “laziness,” embracing rest
• [27:10] – Out of depth/Imposter syndrome in music career
• [31:27] – On stage at Fenway Park
• [32:58] – Impatience as both flaw and focus
• [43:50] – Ending the search for happiness, self-acceptance
• [47:10] – The liberating wisdom: “Don’t believe everything you think.”
• [50:51] – Memory time machine: Cherished family moment during early COVID lockdown

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Tone & Style

• Warm, candid, self-deprecating, and often humorous
• Both host and guest bring a spirit of vulnerability, relatability, and quick wit
• Language is intimate and conversational, inviting listeners into private spaces and thoughts

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Final Reflection

This conversation offers both comfort and insight, balancing stories of home, family, and personal struggle with notes of humor and creative triumph. Noah Kahan’s honesty about the complexities of mental health, the pressures of fame, and his love for simple pleasures (from ghostly forests to junk food and dogs) makes for a deeply human, grounding hour—perfect for anyone seeking connection and reassurance in chaotic times.

Transcript

[Sponsor/Announcer]

This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel, that's your drive for more. Capella University's flexpath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more at Capella. Edu.

[Rachel Martin]

Just a heads up, this episode does have some strong language. What's an answer you've stopped searching for?

[Noah Khan]

When am I going to be happy? You know, I used to think when I was a kid, I first got diagnosed with depression. I was like, okay, so how do I cure this thing that I have? Because I don't want to feel like this anymore. I, like, accepted that it is part of my life and something that I could treat and manage. I was not going to be happy.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life. Questions pulled from a deck of cards. They can skip one question and they can flip one question back on me. My guest this week is Noah Khan.

[Noah Khan]

I think depression and anxiety give you sneaky superpowers in a lot of ways, like the power of understanding and sympathizing. The power of, like, self deprecation is really important to me.

[Rachel Martin]

Noah Khan strikes me as the kind of artist who's taking nothing for granted. When you watch him on stage, he is locked in making the kind of music he always wanted to make in front of stadiums of people. And then he looks up, takes in the crowd, hears them singing his lyrics, and then it looks like he's simply overwhelmed with gratitude. His new album is called the Great Divide. And it is my great pleasure to welcome Noah Khan to Wildcard. Hi.

[Noah Khan]

Hello. Thank you. Those kind words. Thank you very much.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm so happy to have you here. We're going to start with memories. You ready?

[Noah Khan]

Let's do it.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, let's go. So three cards. I hold up three at a time, and you pick one, two, or three.

[Noah Khan]

Okay, I think we go for the middle one.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, I just got to feel it out.

[Noah Khan]

Part the red seas.

[Rachel Martin]

Here we go. What's an ordinary place that feels extraordinary to you because of what happened there?

[Noah Khan]

Oh, I would say the woods near my dad's place in Stratford, Vermont. We had the property for a long time before we built the house there. So it was really just this huge 130 yard acre. 130 acre property. And, like, it was kind of wild. Like, we would go up there from Hanover, New Hampshire to go camping on the weekends, and I would just go into the woods. And our whole family agreed that you could hear voices in the woods. And so like there was one night where we like all were like talking about our separate experiences with those voices in the woods, really. And it was like almost not scary. It almost felt like there's like this older presence or spirit there. And like it was so cool that we all felt it and heard it. And so it's a very ordinary. I mean it's an ordinary path through the woods to a little meadow, but it's like haunted in a cool way. And so that place always strikes me as something really special and extraordinary.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh my God. That's an amazing answer. Because it's one thing for yourself especially. How old were you?

[Noah Khan]

I think when I first heard the voice, I was probably like 11. Like 10 or 11.

[Rachel Martin]

And for everybody in your family to have that same experience, it was crazy.

[Noah Khan]

Like I remember being like, yeah, I heard someone like whispers and laughter. And my sister was like, yeah, oh yeah, me too, growing up. And like we all kind of like, I thought it was kind of crazy until everyone like kind of confirmed that they had heard it too. And maybe it's not real. Maybe we were all just very imaginative kids, but it just feels like a place where magic was. Was real. In that little stretch.

[Rachel Martin]

Have you been back to that space? Like, do you know where it is?

[Noah Khan]

Oh yeah. I go there all the time. I'm. I'm up at my dad's place all the time. I lived there for a long time after I graduated high school. And it's always. You could always feel it when you go into that little. You still can totally. Like the voids in New England are like old and there's like presence and there's. There are things in there. Like, I think I'm not like even super into ghosts or anything like that, but I heard that. So there's some old spirits in there for sure. And it's like a. Not like a dark way, but it's in a way that you respect the history and like how ancient those woods are.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. And like you're not necessarily alone. Like you're coming into a place that has already lived through others lives.

[Noah Khan]

That's a good way to put it.

[Rachel Martin]

A long time.

[Noah Khan]

Yeah, I think it was like, it's so low, it could be so lonely out there that like it was almost nice to feel like there was someone else there with me. And like in those times because like, especially in the winter when everything's just silent and cold and like kind of barren. Like it always felt like there was like someone else with me when I was walking in the woods by myself. And I spent, like, a lot of time alone up there, so maybe it was just me trying to, like, manifest friends, but. Yeah, it was a very strange but cool and comforting thing to have growing up.

[Rachel Martin]

It would be sad if you tell me you already have this song, but I feel like that's a song, right?

[Noah Khan]

No, I don't have a song on that song.

[Rachel Martin]

I feel like there's a ghost in the. I mean, in the trees. There's ghosts in the trees in New England.

[Noah Khan]

That's not a bad idea at all, right? Yeah. Do I have to share royalties with you or.

[Rachel Martin]

No, I'm giving that to you.

[Noah Khan]

All right, good. All right.

[Rachel Martin]

Maybe a little producer credit.

[Noah Khan]

Yeah, we'll find a producer point for you somewhere.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, cool. Okay, that was awesome. Now I want to go to that forest. I'm into ghosts and spirits.

[Noah Khan]

You're welcome to join anytime. You and Lakshmi sing.

[Rachel Martin]

It is so done.

[Noah Khan]

That'd be a fun calling, Lakshmi. That'd be a fun trio.

[Rachel Martin]

From NPR newscast. And we're going camping with you in the spirit forest. Okay, next three. One, two or three.

[Noah Khan]

Let's do the far right one or this one.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm like, is your right this one?

[Noah Khan]

Number three, Your left?

[Rachel Martin]

Your left. Okay. What's something your parents taught you to love?

[Sponsor/Announcer]

O.

[Noah Khan]

My parents taught me to love nature. We spent a lot of time around nature. We were. We scuba dived, scuba dove every year when we were kids in the Bahamas. And, like, the biggest thing about being underwater, around coral and around sea life, is, like, not touching anything and making sure you're respectful of it. And so, like, from a very young age, that was, like, one really big lesson for me was, like, just don't touch these things that you think are beautiful. Like, let them exist. They have their own existence. Like, you don't get to disrupt that because you want to, you know, touch it. Being in the woods and being around dogs, cats, and just different animals in the woods when we'd walk around and just nature, literally plant life, nature, just, like, respecting living things was something that my parents definitely taught me.

[Rachel Martin]

Did they both grow up in sort of rural environments, natural environments?

[Noah Khan]

My dad. My dad grew up in New England. My mom grew up kind of all over the place because her dad moved around a lot. But they both definitely lived in small towns. But I think as they moved to Vermont and lived in Vermont, they kind of started to get more of an appreciation for nature, and they kind of. We're just closer to it all the time. And so I do feel like, they instilled that, especially with animals, like, having dogs. And I had the same dogs now that I had when I was growing up. And I think that's just an extension of, like, the love that my parents taught us to show for our. Our animals, our pets.

[Rachel Martin]

Wait, say more. They're not the same dogs.

[Noah Khan]

No, no, no. Yeah, we cloned them. We cloned them.

[Rachel Martin]

People do that. I've had some people on this very show who've discussed cloning dogs, but, yes, that's crazy stuff.

[Noah Khan]

No, we just have German shepherds. So, like, we grew up with German shepherds, and, like, German shepherds are incredibly emotionally intelligent animals, and they can really tell when you're upset or angry or frustrated. And so, like, knowing that they're really receptive to, like, your emotions is, like, helps you calm down around them. So, like, when I see my dogs, they actually help make me calm, because I grew up having to calm down around. Around the dogs. We had to make sure not to frighten them or scare them or, like, stress them out. So I'm grateful for my parents for having animals in the house all the time, because it just forces you to kind of have responsibility for creatures that rely on you.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. You've been super open about your struggles with mental health from a very young age. Did you have word animals instrumental to you then when you were kind of trying to figure out what was going on with you and how to. What tools to use to get over it?

[Noah Khan]

Yeah, in hindsight, I think they really were just having something around that, like, you could give a hug to or pet, like, really helped also, just, like, a lot of the times when I would have, like, my emotional breakdowns or whatever, I'd be around the dogs, and so they'd just be kind of witness to. To all of it. And so having animals in the house was, like, a great buffer between, like, me feeling like I didn't want to talk to anybody about it, but also didn't want to talk to nobody about it. So it felt like having a little friend there that couldn't rat on you.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, they're like a safe receptacle.

[Noah Khan]

Yeah. They really are things that are happening inside, and they are listening, I think. Like, I do think those, especially the dogs. We had these German shepherds that were so smart and intelligent, like, it could pick up on what I was feeling, and it was nice to have that for sure. I was always. I honestly was always very open with my parents as well. But, you know, of course they're at work, and I'm coming Home from school, having a hard day, and, like, just crying or venting to my dogs was always really, really helpful for me.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. You have siblings, though, right?

[Noah Khan]

They have three siblings, so I have a younger brother and an older brother and an older sister. So I was, like, kind of in the middle, like, other almost, because my younger brother's two years younger than me, my older sister's four years older than my. Than me, and my brother is five years older than me. So I was kind of, like, in the middle, which is why I think I became a singer songwriter, because I just wanted to talk louder than everybody else and get a chance to be hear around the dinner table. But, yeah, my siblings and I all grew up really close, but all kind of struggle with our own mental health challenges. And having our parents who are really respectful, open, and transparent about their own challenges were. Was really a blessing.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, I love that I've heard you talk about how just talking about mental health was a natural thing at the dinner table.

[Noah Khan]

Yeah. So lucky. Like, I just. You just don't realize how lucky, how good you have it until, you know, you get a little perspective on the world. And all I knew was my life in. In New Hampshire and my life in Vermont. So once I left, I was like, wow, I got really lucky with my folks. And I'm always. I'm always reminding them of how grateful I am for it. And, you know, they're just great people.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, that's a lucky thing. I'm sure they're very proud of you.

[Noah Khan]

Hope so.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Okay, last one in this round. One, Two or three.

[Noah Khan]

Let's go. You're right. Far left.

[Rachel Martin]

One.

[Noah Khan]

Yeah. One. Okay, I should say you have enough numbers. Okay. One. I'm making this way harder than it has to be. 1. Sorry.

[Rachel Martin]

The southmost card. Yes. That was really, really messed me up. Okay. When have you felt the most homesick?

[Noah Khan]

Oh, probably like two years ago on tour. I'm not sure where we were. It might have been in Europe, and we had already toured the cities in Europe that we were going back to, and it was our third year or something of touring stick season. And of course, I was so excited to have the fans still love it and get a chance to keep playing it. And what a blessing it is to be able to tour an album for more than just six months or a year. I recognize the privilege of it, but I was just, like, I was really thinking about what was coming next for me and kind of looking at the end of Tor and just feeling like, oh, my God, it's Approaching, like, this emptiness that I'm gonna have to confront. And I just wanted to be home so bad. And what made it a lot harder was, like, I'm singing these songs about home all the time, and so I'm like, every night I'm kind of giving this reminder of, like, this other life that I had. And so I felt really far away in that moment, and then knew at the same time that home was never going to be the same because I had just sung about it for three years. So I kind of, like, almost felt like I took this thing that was really special to me and that was where I was from, um, and gave it to a lot of different people in a lot of ways, and kind of felt like I lost some of that for myself. You know, I go home and there's Sometimes there's. There's. People are super supportive and kind, but, like, people know that I've made the music about the area. And so I almost feel like I've, Like, I've put. I've put too many people on the spot or put the area on the spot and haven't been able to allow it. It's like anonymity that I think made it so special to me in the first place, which was kind of complicated. I think that was really a projection more than a reality. I've got home and since been living in Vermont and still feel super at home and taken care of there. And the place is still very much what I grew up loving. But it did change a little bit, and I felt very homesick in that moment, on stage and aware of that, I wouldn't really be going back to the same place.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. It's almost like you assigned language to the place. Right. You created images for people that felt really real and visceral to those who lived there and people who've never even been there. And in doing that, it's like you give away a special part of your own existence there.

[Noah Khan]

Yeah. It's like with music, like, even my album, I listen to it on my own, and it's just mine for a little while before it becomes the world's too. And I feel like once you give it away, you kind of lose some part of the relationship you have with it. And it's natural, and it's what you want to do. It's what you want, but it's hard. It's hard because you. You want to have things that are just for you. And for a long time, Vermont, Stratford in particular, when I was living there for all the years after and during COVID was like, just mine. You know, it was for everybody that lived there, too. But it wasn't like, this world's thing to look at.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

And so sometimes I see people that are going to, like, visit where I'm from or, like, going to the town, and it's, like, beautiful and amazing, but I'm like, darn. I hope people don't feel like I've, like, exposed.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, my God. Have you made it like a tourist destination?

[Noah Khan]

I don't. I didn't do it on purpose. People are showing up. Cause there's a lot of, like, references to streets and places and stuff. So people are like, oh, there's the street and there's the store selfie. Yeah, a little bit. Which I think people have really liked there for the most part. And most folks are really respectful, but it is kind of this feeling of like, what is mine to keep for myself. And that's something that I think about a lot.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, do people stop you when you're at home?

[Noah Khan]

I know mostly everybody that lives in Stratford, so there isn't that many folks that I run into that I don't know.

[Rachel Martin]

So they're over it. They're just like, whatever.

[Noah Khan]

They kind of don't. Yeah, it's really not like. It's funny. Like, they sell my merch at the store, Coburn's General Store. And the owners who no longer own the store, they're like, we don't listen to your music at all. We just love you, you know, your family. Yeah, that's kind of nice, too, to feel like it isn't about me at all. And I try to really, like, when I'm not on tour, not doing promo, to, like, just step away from, like, the Noah show for a little while. And being back home, it's easy to do that because people are very grounded and down to earth there.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Rachel Martin]

Okay, before we start round two, I just want to pull out of the game for a minute and talk about your album.

[Noah Khan]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

Which is a big deal. It's very exciting. Congratulations.

[Noah Khan]

Thank you.

[Rachel Martin]

It's called the Great Divide. The title track is. It is just this beautiful song. Noah. I love this. I just listened to it on repeat over the weekend. And, you know, you're a songwriter, so you're not. You don't always have to plumb your own biography for material. But I am gonna ask anyway, because this feels so specific. It's about a friendship and a love and relationship and regret and demons that some of us are fighting silently often. Is that. Was that something that happened in your life with a particular relationship, or is that just.

[Noah Khan]

I'd say it's a reflection on a lot of my relationships growing up. I have been both characters in that story. I think, you know, the person that is struggling with something silently and is internalizing a lot of it and engaging in behaviors that are unhealthy to kind of get away from it, but also reaching out for help in ways that people don't see. And I've also been the friend that sits and doesn't ask and doesn't want to know or doesn't want to confront how that person's struggle might reflect on their own struggles and just kind of wants to ignore and move forward. And I've been both those characters in a lot of friendships in my life. And I wanted to kind of find a way to write about the gap that exists between people who don't talk to each other in real ways. And I think that's at the root of a lot of problems in relationships. They're just like how to approach someone in pain. And then in my life, I've felt because of those relationships, a lot of just not just shame or guilt, but also just like, just hope and optimism for that person that they were able to make it through and that the person that was more open with their feelings that able to struggle in front of you, that you weren't able to Ask about like that. Hopefully that means that they're just growing throughout their lives and eventually bringing that openness into their new relationship and being with somebody, whether it's a friend or a partner, that can have that dialogue with them.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's what I respond to so much in your work is this idea that we all so desperately just want to be known, and we often don't know how to make that happen for ourselves, you know?

[Noah Khan]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Martin]

And it seems like that is a through line through your songwriting. Is that fair?

[Noah Khan]

Absolutely. I think in this album in particular, like, touches on me becoming known as a musician and feeling like I know myself even less. And so, like, the ways we make ourselves want to be heard and how sometimes they're not actually a way to become heard. Like, you feel like you get farther and farther from yourself. And there's a song on the record called Porchlight that I wrote about, like, all the ways I've worried my family thought about me now that I've had success like that, I've. That I don't really want to talk to them or that I only want to use where they're from for my music or their own struggles for my music. And I found in some ways, like, writing these songs has actually helped me understand what I'm still going through and kind of my evolving problem of my need to be heard, but also my desire to be alone and understood. And there's songs on the record that kind of touch on that a lot. And so I do feel like this record is a reflection of that feeling of that need to be heard and, like, what it looks like in real time.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. I mean, authors, writers, all stripes go through this kind of struggle where you're. You use your life for material.

[Noah Khan]

Right.

[Rachel Martin]

You. You, like, observe. You observe things. You observe the world, but it's your life, and often it's your relationships. And you just said that that was a thing that you had to work through or you worried about that your family was going to assume that you were just milking them for good songs. Did you have to have, like, a conversation about that, or is it just.

[Noah Khan]

Yeah. Multiple of many? Yeah, tons. I. I feel, like, my biggest regret, and I'm sure that'll be one of your fun cards coming up here soon.

[Rachel Martin]

Regret comes up from time to time.

[Noah Khan]

Are you going to heaven or hell? My biggest regret would probably be, like, not communicating what I was writing about before it came out to my parents and my family, to the people in my life, because I didn't know what the response was gonna look like. I didn't know that people were gonna listen to it a lot and that it was gonna be successful in any way. I really didn't anticipate the level of exposure that these songs and these lyrics got. And a lot of them. A lot of the songs were written at a time when I was just processing on my own. It was just my way of processing. And I didn't feel like I was supposed to go talk to my parents about them because I was like, oh, I got this off my chest. That should be enough. And then I didn't put into account what it might feel like for them to see that without being talked to first. And they've all been incredibly kind about it, and they've never really said, like, that they've been insulted or offended by it. But I've just made sure, and especially making the next album just to be communicative with them and to talk to them and to make sure they're feeling looped in on what's going on and what I'm feeling. And it's allowed me to have, like, more authentic conversations instead of just being like, I'm mad at you, and here's my song about it, which has been really good. So I've been really healthy. That was definitely a learning experience for me, one of many, but that was a really, really big learning experience about, like, people are at the other receiving end of a lot of people's attention that aren't just me, right? And I signed up for attention. I signed up for people looking into the lyrics and who I am. But it's not fair to put someone else through that without getting their consent first.

[Rachel Martin]

Is songwriting still as personally therapeutic to you as it was in the beginning? Because now it comes with all this, like, the trappings of the fame and the pressure and the industry and the record deals and the blah, blah.

[Noah Khan]

It's such a motherfucker. It's such a little bastard. I've always loved songwriting. I've been doing it for my entire life. It's always been therapeutic for me. And this. This process was very therapeutic for me, but it was also very painful. Like, sometimes writing a song is just like, ah, I got it out, you know? And this time was like I was having to dig and claw for the music. And it was creating all this imposter syndrome and this pressure and this pain and imposter syndrome.

[Rachel Martin]

After the stick season, oh, yeah.

[Noah Khan]

Even worse, it was like, oh, my gosh, I didn't deserve any of that. How am I Gonna make them believe that I'm good enough to do it again, you know?

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

And it was a very complicated and painful process for me because I struggled a lot with burnout on this last writing process. And that is any author, writer, creative person really goes through that, or anyone can go through burnout. But it's particularly tough when you're having to create something from nothing. And, you know, there's a deadline, you know, there's a lot of expectation, a lot of people. And I started to really lose what I loved about songwriting, which I think was that it really was, at the end of the day, supposed to be for me and about me and for my own therapeutic purposes. And it wasn't all about creating a product or, like, expanding on a successful business venture or whatever it is, you know, Like. So I started to lose that, and it took me a long time to find it again, only through conversations with. I mean, artists that I admired for years, and friends and family. My mom, who's an author, my wife, who's seen me through a lot of it. And it was just, like, about reaching out and saying, help, because I didn't have a lot of faith in myself to get through it. And once I kind of reached out and acknowledged that it was something I was actually going through was when it started to be therapeutic for me. And I started to realize that songwriting doesn't have to be for anybody else. And I really stopped writing songs for any album. I just started writing music because I wanted to see if I could do it still. And that's when I kind of started to feel not only like the music was getting better, but like I was falling back in love with songwriting. And so it is still very therapeutic. I just have to treat it with a lot of care and make sure that I'm always tending after the garden and not. And not abandoning it for three years to go tour and then coming back and be like, why isn't it full of fruit? You know, I. I just left this thing alone. And so I'm trying to make sure I take good care of my creativity and. And. And how it isn't supposed to be for anybody else but me.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Second round insights. 1, 2 or 3?

[Noah Khan]

1, 2 or 3. Let's do 2, 2 right in the middle.

[Rachel Martin]

What's something you thought about yourself that you had to unlearn?

[Noah Khan]

That's such a great question. I think I used to think I was really lazy.

[Rachel Martin]

Really?

[Noah Khan]

Yeah. I think especially in the past few years, I've thought I was lazy. Making this album. I Was like, I'm so lazy. I don't want to get up and make music right now. All I want to do is lie on the couch and watch TV and like eat junk food. And I think I had to realize that I. And as people right now in this busy ass world where everyone's working all the time and. And I, I was touring for three or four years. It's not like I wasn't doing manual labor, but it was a lot of travel and a lot of energy spent and I had to just be like, you're not lazy. You're just like recharging and like actually allowing myself to recharge and not see like rest as like a bad thing.

[Rachel Martin]

Right.

[Noah Khan]

So I would say like challenging that. I'm not lazy. I just like am somebody that needs their own certain timeline of rest and recharging was helpful for me.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, I get that. I'm the same way. Like there will be times when I'm just. I need to stare at a wall. Like literally I just stare at the wall. And then I end up comparing myself to other people. I know my peers who don't need to stare at walls, or at least they project like they're not a wall staring person. It's tr. But then I look at people who are just. They're so productive. They're doing like 20 times more than I am doing in the world.

[Noah Khan]

That's okay.

[Rachel Martin]

And I have to remind myself that for me, my truth is staring at a wall. Sometimes I've got to do it because

[Noah Khan]

that's what makes you great. Like you have to give yourself that time. And nobody's the same either. So like.

[Rachel Martin]

Right.

[Noah Khan]

It's pretty useless to be like, I wonder what that other person is doing to cope with their myriad of problems are going to be so different and more convoluted away from yours. It's hard to like, I do the same thing, comparing myself all the time to other artists, other musicians, other songwriters, other people that work harder than I do in my perception. And then it doesn't really get me anywhere. So no, I started just staring at walls. Yeah, sometimes that's the thing you need to do.

[Rachel Martin]

What is your thing? You said lying on the couch watching TV and junk food. I love what's the junk food? What's the tv?

[Noah Khan]

Oh yeah, I love like I'll watch the Office and they have super fan episodes now, so they have like extra longer versions of all the deleted scenes they edited to make it look like one continuous episode. So, you know, nine seasons of that. That's like six months of my life eating junk food. I love eating, like, chips and salsa. Like, anything spicy.

[Rachel Martin]

Salsa, chips.

[Noah Khan]

Also a lime polar seltzer. Oh, my God. I'm all about seltzers.

[Rachel Martin]

I don't think that's really junk food. I feel like that's just food.

[Noah Khan]

And then I eat ten double stuffed Oreos.

[Rachel Martin]

There you go. Yeah. Nope, that's the junk food.

[Noah Khan]

There it is.

[Rachel Martin]

But also, what is the point of a single stuffed Oreo anymore?

[Noah Khan]

Because it. I don't even get me started. They're making everything smaller. The double stuff used to be way bigger. Now the double stuff is just a single stuff. And the single stuff is basically just a cookie part.

[Rachel Martin]

It's just cookie with very little cream.

[Noah Khan]

So you need to get mega stuff if you really want to experience a significant more.

[Rachel Martin]

I completely agree because the ratio of cream to cookie is now terrible.

[Noah Khan]

Have you had a ring pop recently? I don't know if it was. I was a little kid, and those ring pops look bigger on my fingers. They look tiny now. They're like actual ring size. Same with baby bottle pops. I guess. These are both like children's candies.

[Rachel Martin]

Well, also, is it just cause your perspective because you're grown now.

[Noah Khan]

I was thinking that while I said it, you might be right. But the ore thing is true, though. You agree in the oreo thing.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, next. Three. One, two or three?

[Noah Khan]

Let's go three.

[Rachel Martin]

Three. When have you been in over your head? Ooh.

[Noah Khan]

Oh, man. I've been in over my head since I got into the music industry. Like, I've literally. I've always been like, whoa, I don't belong here. I've kind of been like. Like agent Cody Banks, like, faking my way through. I felt like I was like a spy and, like, pretending to be a musician. So I think my whole career. And it's funny because the feeling has never really gotten easier. I've always kind of felt like I don't belong in this moment. And it's really not to get, like, sympathy or somebody be like, yeah, you do. Like, look at the cool things. It's just the way I've felt like.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

Even when I was like. I think it's because when I was at open mics growing up was where I started out. I started doing open mics, like, every day of the week in New Hampshire. Vermont. Yeah. When I was, like, from when I was, like, 12 to when I was 17 or 18. Oh, my God. And I was always the youngest one, and I couldn't hang out of the bar and drink with everybody. And I couldn't catch up with the people because they were all in their 30s and 40s, and I was just me and my mom hanging and eating baked potatoes, waiting to go on. But I think that made me feel, like, a little bit on the outside of. Of the group when it comes comes to music. And I think when I got into the music industry, people were so kind and welcomed me with open arms. But I didn't really lose that feeling of, like, all I can do is go up on stage and, like, crush it, because that's the only thing that's going to get me to, like, make me feel like I belong here. And so I think I've taken that into my music career a lot, where I'm like, I can only control, like, the music and the way I sound and the way I sing and, like, the performance. And it was just kind of this way of me feeling like I belonged on stage was, like, actually singing or writing. So I've always kind of felt in over my head, but never as much until, like, the last, like, four years, like, stepping out into an arena or a stadium and just being like, who are you guys here for? You know?

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, so I want two stories from you. One about the first time, if you can remember when you're 12, getting up at an open mic, because that seems wild to me. Like, the confidence required for a child to do that is crazy.

[Noah Khan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

So what was that on stage moment?

[Noah Khan]

Like, I was like. I think this was at a time when I had. There was, like, a very rough period before puberty where I had, like, I just wasn't very good, and I had a really high voice, and, like, puberty somehow made me, like, sound better. Like, it gave me, like, a little rasp. And I was getting really into, like, Rayla Montaigne and Cat Stevens, and. And so I went on stage at Jesse's in Hanover, New Hampshire, and I was the youngest one by far, and. And I wasn't great, but I do remember, like, I think people expected me to be, like, sound like a dying frog or something like that. But I was so I was able to sing. And so people were like, okay. And, like, I got a couple of glances up and people went back to eating their food. But I remember that was the first time that I was like, all right, like, I can, like, get people to look right Then all of them have one more person each night to look up and listen to me sing. Like, that'll be something. And it was just my mom back there. And she would drive me after soccer practice, after school.

[Rachel Martin]

Love that. Your mom did not say Noah, that's just like that you're. As a parent, as a mom, you're so afraid that your kids feelings are going to get hurt. Right? And I love that she fought against that. And she's like, no, this is because

[Noah Khan]

she would, she would, she wouldn't hurt my feelings, but she was. She would critique my music even at a young age. Not in like a this sucks kind of way, but in like, she's a writer, bestselling author, so she would help me hone in on certain ideas and phrases and she would like, ask me what that means and if there's a different way we could sing that or like what part she liked and what it reminded her of. And so like, she was willing to like, question what I was doing and help it make. Help make it better. And then she was also willing to like three or four nights a week pick me up from school or soccer practice and drive me to a random bar in the area. And yeah, I'm sure there's some times like she didn't want to go take me out, but she always did without. Without ever complaining about it. So that's amazing. I was lucky. I remember she took me to, I think the one time she didn't want to do it, we went to America's Got Talent auditions in Rhode island. And it was just so brutal and like, weird. And I think she was like, this sucks, let's not do this. And actually got a record deal like three weeks later. I didn't get through the first audition, but like, separately I got a record deal. I'm like, thank God I didn't do good enough on that show.

[Rachel Martin]

Take that, America's Got Talent.

[Noah Khan]

Yeah. Putting out.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Okay. So that was the one stage experience I wanted to know about. When you were 12 years old and you get on stage for an open mic. The other one I want to know is the first time you stepped on stage at Fenway, I mean, you sold out Fenway park in Boston and just that had to have just been surreal for you.

[Noah Khan]

I was like I said earlier, there's a lot of times where I feel like I don't belong on stage or I don't deserve the moment or whatever. But that was like the one time that I stepped on stage and like, this is like, I've earned this. I deserve this. I'm ready for it. I'm right here in this moment. I'm not.

[Rachel Martin]

You didn't feel in over your head

[Noah Khan]

I didn't at all. I actually didn't feel it over my head in that moment. I felt, like, very. The word in control sounds like Patrick Batesy, I guess. I mean, like, in control of my own feelings.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

And very excited to be just in that moment and not wanting the moment to end or even to get to the next part of the song, like, just. I wanted to, like, stay as long as I could. And after the show, I remember just, like, standing out there and being. Like, every show I do, I walk away before I could see how people felt about it, because people are cheering. And so I just, like, stood out there for a minute, took it all in. And to hear 38,000 people, like, and all my friends and family, like, just, like, cheering your name and celebrating this place we're all from. Some of us being from the same town, but New England as a region and getting that experience with them was just, like, so special. I always choke up thinking about it because it was just, like, one of those moments that, you know, you'll remember forever the second it's happening.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

And it was very, very special. I did not feel it over my head. I felt, like, right in the water I needed to be in.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Okay, last one in this round.

[Noah Khan]

All right.

[Rachel Martin]

Three new cards.

[Noah Khan]

I like this round.

[Rachel Martin]

You're into it. Okay. I do two. One, two, or three.

[Noah Khan]

Let's do one.

[Rachel Martin]

What's a quality you're drawn to but don't possess?

[Noah Khan]

Oh, patience, for sure. I'm very impatient.

[Rachel Martin]

Singing my song. Noah Khan.

[Noah Khan]

Are you really patient?

[Rachel Martin]

I'm so impatient.

[Noah Khan]

Oh, I know. Me.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm the most impatient person.

[Noah Khan]

It's so bad, I don't know what to do about it. I feel like I just need it all to happen right away. And so I'm really drawn to people, especially my wife, who's so patient, like, who can just take a second, you know, and, like, wait for the moment to happen instead of meetings all happen right away. I just want everything to be fast. And I want traffic, my experience, going grocery shopping, playing golf, playing a show, driving somewhere, going for. I just, like. I want it to be over. I think I'm just, like, bouncing from one thing to one thing and never, like, experiencing anything. But I love people who can, like, patiently take in a moment and, like, enjoy all of it.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

But also people that are patient with others. Like, sometimes I can get impatient with people, and that's, like, one of my flaws. And so I love when people are able to, like, take a breath.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

Relax and realize, like, Some battles aren't worth fighting.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

What about you? Can I flip that one on you?

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, I've talked about my impatience so much that now people who watch the show will come up to me and they'll be like that patience thing. It's hard, right? Oh, my gosh.

[Noah Khan]

You've been pretty patient with me.

[Rachel Martin]

I've been yapping, but not so much with you because you are a fast talker. I know it's quick, but it is definitely a professional liability because I've been having conversations with people for, like, 25 years. And also because I worked on a new show where the conversations had to get edited down to like six minutes. And so I developed this horrible tick where then I would just be in my actual life and I'd be at a dinner party and someone would be telling me a story, and the story, they were just not telling it in a really efficient way. And it was just going on for so long and I would just be like, oh, no.

[Noah Khan]

Have you ever said it just like, stop? No, no, I've done that before. People that I really. They know me really well at that point. So, like, they've made a mistake telling the story that's slowly in front of me because they know that I'll say something about it. If it's someone that's like, just. I haven't met, like, go ahead, like, wrap it up. I'll let you finish. But if someone's like, I'm like, dude, I can't. You have to skip. Oh, my God.

[Rachel Martin]

It's so rude.

[Noah Khan]

It's so rude.

[Rachel Martin]

It is like the rudest, rudest thing.

[Noah Khan]

I'm sorry.

[Rachel Martin]

And so I have to really. I have to be patient. And my kids, God bless him, and my older son knows he does this. He just tells a long story and he wants all the details in there, but I'm sort of losing the plot. And it is a real. It is. My work in life is to.

[Noah Khan]

You gotta time the. Uh huh. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, that's right. Uh huh. Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. You gotta time them out. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. Well, we share that albatross. We share that albatross.

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[Rachel Martin]

It's our last round. Noah Con beliefs. Okay, three new cards. One, two, or three?

[Noah Khan]

Let's go two.

[Rachel Martin]

Are there any recurring symbols that show up in your life?

[Noah Khan]

Whoa, that is a really cool question.

[Rachel Martin]

It's only cool if your answer is yes. And here's some of them.

[Noah Khan]

It's not that I don't think. No, no, I'll skip that one. I don't have any recurring symbols. Yeah, I don't have any recurring symbols.

[Rachel Martin]

Skip it. Done. Okay, so I'm supposed to randomly pick. So I'm gonna pick this one. Does the idea of an infinite universe excite you or scare you?

[Noah Khan]

Oh, I'm excited by that.

[Rachel Martin]

Are you?

[Noah Khan]

But let's get. Let's get around to it, though. Similar to the impatience conversation we had, I'm getting lack of patience to see that some of this stuff. I don't want to be in, like, my 70s or 80s when it's time to, like, go explore and, like, go to a different planet, like, eat really cool foreign, different fruits and stuff like that. Like, I'm ready to go right now, at least next 10 years while I'm still, you know, in shape and, like, young adult. Would love to be able to get out and go see some different planets and stuff.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, my God, there's so much to unpack in that question. So as you're aging, you think you're gonna go to other planets. You think this is definitely a thing

[Noah Khan]

that is we're eventually gonna figure out how to travel through space and time in a more efficient way. Yeah, and I think it'll probably be like in my late 80s, late 90s, when we're like, unless we're, like, all out of food by then. But in my late 80s, late 90s is when I'll kind of be when people start locking into that technology. And I don't want to be like an old man who has to go to, like, the cruise ship planet to, like, chill. I want to go to, like, the. Dope like, young people are going here and like, partying planet.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

Yeah. So I'm just worried about missing out on, like, what the really cool stuff is. Like, I am not interested in going to like, the equivalent of like a museum planet. Like, I want to go to like, nightclub Planet.

[Rachel Martin]

Nightclub Planet.

[Noah Khan]

Golf Course Planet Planet. Where everything's candy. That kind of stuff.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. Okay, cool. And right now, in your imagination of what that universe is, there's definitely all those discrete activities.

[Noah Khan]

You said infinite.

[Rachel Martin]

Like, you think that. It just doesn't make sense to me that an entire planet would be the Gulf planet.

[Noah Khan]

If I had my way. That's what we call Noah's planet.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you really like golf?

[Noah Khan]

I love golf.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you?

[Noah Khan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, man, I hate golf so much.

[Noah Khan]

You do? Oh, darn.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. I despise the golf.

[Noah Khan]

Do you hate it?

[Rachel Martin]

Like, never going to golf.

[Noah Khan]

Have you ever played?

[Rachel Martin]

You know what? I was. I was the bar cart girl at a concert.

[Noah Khan]

That will make you hate golf because people are weirdo.

[Rachel Martin]

Ruined the game.

[Noah Khan]

Oh, I'm sorry about that.

[Rachel Martin]

So there's that thing.

[Noah Khan]

Yes.

[Rachel Martin]

But also it gets back to the patience. An impatient person's never going to be good at golf.

[Noah Khan]

That's why I'm so bad. That's why I'm so. But it's also an addictive personality game. So I have the addictive personality. Makes me want to keep going back.

[Rachel Martin]

Right.

[Noah Khan]

But you're right, the bar cards thing is bad because people, I mean, that's like the position that like, they're like, usually like a younger woman driving around these old weird dudes.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, yeah.

[Noah Khan]

Golf gets a terrible rep from people like that. So I understand why people wouldn't want to travel to golf course.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm not going to. I'm still not. You've made it.

[Noah Khan]

You can do a one week staycation at Golf Course Planet. If you don't like golf by then you can go over. Everything's made a candy planet.

[Rachel Martin]

I am going to Spa Planet.

[Noah Khan]

What? Spa Planet's beautiful this time of year.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm going to Spa Planet. That's. That's what's going to happen for me. Noah, three new cards. 1, 2 or 3?

[Noah Khan]

1.

[Rachel Martin]

Besides going to Planet Golf, this is the question. What do you look forward to when you're older?

[Noah Khan]

It depends if I can play golf or not. No, when I'm older.

[Rachel Martin]

When you think about being old, what is a thing that you think you're gonna enjoy?

[Noah Khan]

Old people, similar to babies can get away with a lot of ridiculous behav because of them. Being old or babies. Old people. Pretty can be pretty cantankerous without a lot of social repercussion. Like, grumpy old person. No one's like, hey, like, I'm gonna. There's. It's like, okay, he's an old man.

[Rachel Martin]

Right. And you would enjoy that.

[Noah Khan]

I would enjoy that. Being able to be grumpy whenever I want would be awesome. You start to lose the ability just to be pissed off about something in public. Yeah. Which is fine.

[Rachel Martin]

Well, especially when you're famous, you can't really get mad at people.

[Noah Khan]

Yeah. Well, you have to be polite no matter what. And if old people are rude, being rude and being grumpy are totally. If I'm just, like, in a bad mood, walk around the scowl on my face. I would love to be able to do that when I'm older. I hope I have a huge family. I would love to have grandkids and to be able to, like, spend time with, like, generations of family and just to, like, kind of, like, impart my wisdom or impart my life story onto other people. Like my granddad has done for me. Like, my favorite thing in the world to do is to listen to him talk about his childhood and how not just how different the world was, but how much he grew and changed. And to be around a dinner table with, like, three generations of people that are all there because of, you know, the grandparents up there, it's really special, so I want to be able to have that experience.

[Rachel Martin]

Tell me about him.

[Noah Khan]

My granddad.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

So my. I have one set of grandparents that's. That's alive. I never met. I met my dad's mom, but I was really young. My dad's dad passed away before I was born, so I was really close, Amberly close with my mom's parents, and he was living in Wyoming, working in oil, but also going to school. Before going to school, he would. I think he would bottle milk cans and then go to school and then go work on, like, an oil field. So, you know, I didn't have a lot to complain about around him.

[Rachel Martin]

Right.

[Noah Khan]

But that perspective was, like. His perspective is very much like, you have to make things happen yourself. And, like, hard work is a huge principle for him. And he's also just this really lovely, sweet man. And to come from such a hardworking environment, and both my grandparents grew up pretty poor, and to see them kind of, like, get to this place where they have their home and their beautiful family and are still so full of life and energy, it's nice to see that you can escape some circumstances of your life and turn them into positive things.

[Rachel Martin]

What does he make of this new path that you're on?

[Noah Khan]

He's so proud of me. I remember every. Every Christmas, he would just have me, like, play music for him. And even before, obviously, I was like, any good?

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

And he always was like, noah's gonna sing. And him and my grandma always have been so proud of me. And they come to a lot of my gigs, and they do. Yeah. And I always see him. Not now. The gigs are getting too big where I can't see them anymore. But they used to be, like, up there in the. You know, they have the elderly. A lot of elderly folks who need, like, canes or walkers are sitting up there, and I'll just see them wave. And it's just, like, so cool to see people that. That, you know, are probably not used to having, like, this kind of environment. Like, a lot of young kids screaming music and them just enjoying it. It's really cool. And we're all super close with them. I'm close with, you know, my cousins, my aunts and uncles. So whenever we all get together, we just, like, listen to my granddad and grandma talk about their lives. It's really fun.

[Rachel Martin]

That's awesome. Three more cards. There we go.

[Noah Khan]

Okay,

[Rachel Martin]

one, two or three?

[Noah Khan]

I haven't done three in a while.

[Rachel Martin]

What's an answer you've stopped searching for?

[Noah Khan]

Oh, that's such a good question. Oh, I've stopped searching for, like, when am I going to be happy? You know, like, when am I? I used to think when I was a kid, I first got diagnosed with depression. I was like, okay, so how do I cure this thing that I have? Because I don't want to feel like this anymore. And the more I try to do that, the more just miserable I become, because I would feel the stress of knowing that I felt like this and it might not go away. And until I, like, accepted that as it is part of my life and something that I could treat and manage, I was not gonna be happy. Because I don't think happiness is, like, one state. I think happiness is being content within yourself. Maybe, like, being okay with the flaws and the struggles you have. And here, now, today. Yeah, exactly. Like, it's not. There's not, like, one utopic place where you're happy all the time, and I'm happy in moments and unhappy in other moments. I've never had a happiness that's lasted me my whole life, and that's okay. And I've found that, like, not putting the pressure on myself to, like, be something at all has allowed me just to be whoever I am, and that makes it easier for me to be myself. So I found that just taking in, like you said, moments as they come, accepting I have my flaws and trying to grow through them and work through them, but not feeling the pressure to be a perfectly content person has been really nice, and it's kind of unlocked a different perspective in life for me.

[Rachel Martin]

It's hard, too, when you're young, especially if you're trying to work through mental health stuff. I mean, adults do it too, but especially when you're young, you just want to know why, right? Like, why is this happening to me and not someone else? And how does it stop happening? And it is a really hard thing to help a child understand that you're not broken. This isn't a thing that's wrong with you, and it's a thing also you're going to live with. Do you remember, was it a therapist or a parent or a friend who helped you learn that it maybe wasn't going to get fixed because it wasn't a problem to solve, but it was part of you. And there was the word manager.

[Noah Khan]

More apartment That's a great question, I think. No, it's like this thing that people wanted to dance around a little bit because they knew and I didn't. I'm not sure if I ever asked outright, like, will I ever get rid of this? But I think in my head I was like, okay, therapy, Three months of therapy and I'll be good. Or like, medication, be on medication for months and then I'll be done with it and I've done everything and now I'm good. And like, as I saw that not working that way, I started to come to the realization that it was something I was going to have to manage for a long time. And that was a really difficult period. I kind of had to figure it out for myself. And I was really lonely in this feeling of like, ah, fuck, I'm stuck with this forever. And because right now it feels so hard, I'm going to feel this bad forever. And the truth was, as I started to kind of manage and like, there are so many great ways to manage depression and anxiety and. And as I started to lean into those a little bit more, I started to be okay with how I was going to feel right now being forever. You know, it's like you have to get to a place where you accept that you're going to have periods of depression and anxiety and preparing Yourself for those moments not listening to the story you've been telling yourself your entire life.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Noah Khan]

Like, I saw a bumper sticker and it said, don't believe everything you think. And, like, that changed my life. Like, I was like, you're right. I've just been listening to every shitty thing I've said about myself for 10 years, and I've never questioned any of it because I think I'm so smart that I must be right. It's like, I just need help. And so when I asked for help and reached out for help is when I started kind of getting a different perspective on who I might actually be. And then I started being a lot more happy because I was like, I still can grow. I'm not going to be a completely happy person, but I can still grow and learn new things. And also, I think depression, anxiety give you sneaky superpowers in a lot of ways, like the power of understanding and sympathizing, the power of self deprecation is really important to me. Being able to talk about my flaws without it having to be like, this terrible taboo thing is really, really important. Not just to my career, but just, like, the way I interact with people. So I think they give you these, like, sneaky little, like, traits that are kind of cool. And of course, it's not fun to have depression and anxiety, but there can be moments of humor and levity in those. In those feelings. Sometimes you're like, man, this just sucks so much, I can almost laugh at it. And I've gotten to that point a lot in my life, which has helped me get through some of those harder moments.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, we're all so complicated in our heads. There's so much going on.

[Noah Khan]

I know.

[Rachel Martin]

And so many of us don't feel comfortable to say it out loud. And you do, and it's a beautiful part of what you do, in my opinion. What has it been like to hear people. I'm sure you get notes and messages all the time from people who are saying, this has helped me. Hearing you talk about this stuff has helped me.

[Noah Khan]

It's so beautiful because even in the way they write, you can tell that they're sometimes for the first time, but they're always speaking openly in the way that I have tried to my music or in conversations like this. Like, you can see them being open and not guarding anything. They're like, I went through this thing and here's how I felt about it, and it was awful. And, like, I'm here for all of it. It's an amazing Amazing privilege to be trusted with those feelings from people. Yeah, sometimes it's hard, you know, because you're taking in a lot of pain from people. And I'm actually. I'm not a therapist, and I'm not a. I'm not somebody that can give feedback in a professional way. But it just makes me happy to see that the music that has been really hard for me to make and really hard to speak about has allowed people to kind of face that. That fear of being open and being honest. It's incredible. Like, the people that have connected with this music come from all over the place, from different walks of life, from different backgrounds. But we're all kind of connected by these lyrics, I think, and by the fans response and the fans community. And to know that, like, something that's so universal has been found in this music is really special to me. I know how different life is for a lot of people right now. I had a really lovely childhood and was very lucky, like we talked about with mental health stuff, to have that support for my family. And a lot of the folks that write to me don't have that kind of good luck. But to know that the feelings they're describing are things that I have also felt just makes me believe in, like, something bringing us together right now. So it's a really great start. And I'm always just honored that people write to me and share with me. It's really cool.

[Rachel Martin]

We end the show the same way every time with a trip in our memory time machine.

[Noah Khan]

Here we go.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. In the memory time machine, you revisit one moment from your past. It's not a moment you want to change anything about. It's just a moment you'd like to linger in a little longer. What moment do you choose? Whoa.

[Noah Khan]

I think I'd like to go back to the first month of COVID without Covid happening. Because I gotta be with my family, all together. And it was. There was no way we were all going to be together like that without some monumental event happening. I obviously wish Covid hadn't happened, but just getting to that, that week or two in March, back home, us all just kind of in the same place, not knowing what was going on. It felt like we were all little kids again for the first time in a long time. Really, it was really special to me.

[Rachel Martin]

Can you give me a scene? Where were you? Where are you together? Where did you fill that closeness in a way that you hadn't in a long time?

[Noah Khan]

We were all at my mom's house in her living room just drinking red wine and laughing and talking about each other and about our lives and stuff. And it was just really beautiful. And again, of course, do not want Covid. Covid sucked horrible for so many people. But that moment that that temporary craziness offered us was really special to me. Yeah, I remember us all laughing and it was just like we had no idea what was going on, but we were all just drinking red wine and

[Rachel Martin]

it was like time was suspended. It was like we were all kind of like living in Amber, you know?

[Noah Khan]

It was just so. I just knew it was something that would never happen again in that moment. Like we would never all be together again for. For the same reason. And it was really beautiful.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. No conversation. The new album is called the Great Divide. It was so wonderful to have you here.

[Noah Khan]

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

[Rachel Martin]

If you like this episode, check out my conversation with Jack Antonoff. Just like Noah, Jack was an open book about regret. Also coming to terms with his mental health issues and his abiding love for his hometown. I loved talking with him. This episode was produced by Alicia Zhang and Summer Tomah. It was edited by Dave Blanchard and mastered by Becky Brown. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni and our theme music is by Ramtin Aradlooi. You can reach out to [e-mail] we'll shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. Talk to you then.

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