Amy Grant

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin: Amy Grant

Release Date: April 30, 2026
Host: Rachel Martin (NPR)
Guest: Amy Grant
Episode Theme: Exploring Life’s Big Questions, Aging, Faith, and Creativity

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Episode Overview

In this intimate episode of Wild Card, host Rachel Martin is joined by beloved singer-songwriter Amy Grant to discuss vulnerability, creativity after life-changing events, aging, faith, and finding connection. Using the show’s signature deck of thought-provoking cards, the conversation weaves through personal stories, philosophies, and the meaning behind Grant’s first album of original music in over a decade—the Me that Remains.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Making Peace with Time and Aging

• Opening Reflection (00:47)
  • Amy Grant shares her acceptance of time, using the metaphor of gardening at 65 to embrace process over perfection.
  • Quote: “If you're trying to create a lovely garden, which I am…nature wins. …The joy in the process. That’s gotta be enough.” – Amy Grant (00:49–01:18; reiterated at 34:45)

2. Belonging, Community, and Growing Up

• Grant feels she was "born into a group of peers" as the youngest of four daughters, highlighting how belonging is about welcome, not sameness (03:13–05:04).
• Her experiences in a "hippie church" during high school nurtured curiosity and a love for music as a spiritual language.

3. Moments of Connection with Strangers

• Amy recounts a small but profound encounter with a Nashville parking garage attendant named Val, sparked by a smile and mutual recognition, illustrating life's interconnectedness (05:16–07:11).
• Quote: “A smile like that, that can change the next moment of the day.” – Amy Grant (06:03)
• Quote: “The longer you live…there’s so much layering up of all of our lives.” – Amy Grant (07:02)

4. Turning Points and Embracing Change

• Grant describes letting go of her inner critic following a therapy exercise—writing a eulogy to her younger self—marking a profound shift in self-acceptance (09:22–11:52).
• Quote: “I really just basically bid farewell to that younger woman and said, I'm here, but I can't be her anymore…stop looking for what I cannot find and then discover all that is.” – Amy Grant (10:47)

5. Creativity, Recovery, and the New Album

• The long gap between original albums wasn’t about quitting music, but surviving personal crises: heart surgery and a serious bike accident (13:37–14:59).
• Grant reflects on cognitive challenges after her accident and how quiet time in her backyard, writing by hand, slowly reignited her creativity (15:06–17:49).
• Quote: “All you do is…take the hand you’re dealt that day and live the life that you get.” – Vince Gill to Amy Grant, recounted (16:23)
• Writing new music for audiences of her contemporaries brought a sense of duty to reflect the realities of aging (17:49–17:57).

6. Navigating Cultural Unrest through Art

• Discussion of the song “The 6th of January” and why Grant chose to include a song referencing the events of January 6th.
• Despite advice to avoid potentially divisive topics, she believes in sharing and singing questions, unrest, and cultural realities—without “picking a team” (19:17–21:36).
• Quote: “I've always welcomed singing the questions…I thought, why wouldn't I sing about unrest in our culture?” – Amy Grant (20:11)
• On empathy: “There’s always…something to be gained by listening…by imagining: what if our roles were reversed?” (21:36)

7. Surprises of Getting Older

• Grant finds unexpected joy in movement and starts a mindful movement routine she calls “Child’s Play,” which improved her singing and brought delight (22:32–25:36).
• Quote: “Fitness should not require a personal trainer, a membership to the Y, some kind of devices…what if I just picked a couple of movements that put a smile on my face?” – Amy Grant (24:05)
• She hasn’t missed a day since September 10th.

8. Music’s Influence on Mood

• Music is both an invitation and augmentation to emotion, acting as a “shoeshorn to get you out of a bad mood” and a means to be “peeled wide open” emotionally (26:02–27:10).
• Quote: “Here’s what music does: it just peels you wide open.” – Amy Grant (26:57)

9. Validation and Authentic Living

• In large, diverse family gatherings, Grant emphasizes honoring what uniquely energizes oneself over seeking external validation (27:22–29:45).
• Quote: “You just gotta be able to celebrate the things that fill your tank…try to connect with yourself and let whatever space you’re meant to take up in the universe fill all that.” – Amy Grant (28:58)

10. Core Beliefs and The Power of Love

• Most fundamental truth: “We are loved.” Grant describes a daily ritual of reciting the Lord’s Prayer—emphasizing “our Father” as a radical, collective perspective (31:59–33:31).
• Quote: “That person whose actions are turning me inside out is loved. And we are connected.” – Amy Grant (32:28)
• Grant hopes this connection compels her toward compassion and love, even for those she deeply disagrees with (33:31–34:26).

11. Evolving Faith

• Her feelings about God have shifted from needing to “get it all right” to accepting the vastness and mystery of the divine (35:49–39:10).
• Quote: “Whatever I can imagine is coming from a finite human brain…God and goodness and Jesus and love…whatever I can think is not even a drop in the bucket.” – Amy Grant (38:20)
• She now sees herself as small but intricately connected in the “body of mankind” (39:10–39:29).

12. Cherished Memory

• Given the chance to revisit a moment, Grant chooses sharing a hospital bed with her sister Carol after giving birth at the same time, with their newborns side by side (39:35–41:13).
• Quote: “We laid the babies we had just had side by side, and all four of us were in bed. …That's rare.” – Amy Grant (40:25)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (Chronological with Timestamps)

• On Aging and Change: “If you're trying to create a lovely garden, which I am, …nature wins. The joy in the process. That’s gotta be enough.” — Amy Grant (00:49 & 34:45)
• The Power of Kindness: “A smile like that, that can change the next moment of the day.” — Amy Grant (06:03)
• Letting Go of the Past: “Bid farewell to that younger woman…stop looking for what I cannot find and then discover all that is.” — Amy Grant (10:47)
• On Empathetic Listening: “There’s always…something to be gained by listening and by. Imagining: what if our roles were reversed?” — Amy Grant (21:36)
• Fitness, Joy, and Enough: “Fitness should not require a personal trainer…what if I just picked a couple of movements that put a smile on my face?” — Amy Grant (24:05)
• Music’s Emotional Power: “Here’s what music does: it just peels you wide open.” — Amy Grant (26:57)
• Self-Validation: “Celebrate the things that fill your tank…let whatever space you’re meant to take up…emerge with all of that beauty and purpose.” — Amy Grant (28:58)
• Guiding Truth: “We are loved. …That person whose actions are turning me inside out is loved. And we are connected.” — Amy Grant (32:28)
• Faith’s Mystery: “Whatever I can think is not even a drop in the bucket.” — Amy Grant (38:20)
• On Connection: “We laid the babies we had just had side by side, and all four of us were in bed. …That's rare.” — Amy Grant (40:25)

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Important Timestamps for Segments

• 00:47 – Opening, coming to peace with time
• 03:13 – Childhood community and belonging
• 05:16 – Connection with strangers, impactful encounter at Nashville garage
• 09:22 – Turning pages in life, therapy and self-acceptance
• 13:37 – Creative process after major life events, health and recovery
• 19:17 – Discussion of “The 6th of January,” music and cultural dialogue
• 22:32 – Joy and surprise in aging, new exercise routine
• 26:02 – Music’s emotional role
• 27:22 – Perspectives on validation, honoring personal energy
• 31:59 – Core belief: universal love and connection
• 35:49 – How faith and feelings about God have changed
• 39:35 – Memory time machine: hospital moment with sister and newborns

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Summary Tone

Warm, reflective, and wise, the conversation blends Amy Grant’s vulnerability and humor with Rachel Martin’s empathetic curiosity. Grant’s stories radiate both humility and joy, inviting listeners to embrace change, savor the process, and approach both others and themselves with deep compassion.

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For listeners seeking affirmation, wisdom, and shared humanity, this is a grounding, deeply human episode.

Transcript

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Rachel Martin]

NPR hey, it's Rachel. If you're in LA, listen up because we're coming to town and soon. On Thursday, May 7, we're going to tape an episode of Wildcard live on stage at the Crawford in Pasadena. And the phenomenal Tracee Ellis Ross will will be my guest. She's the kind of person who reminds you how much life is out there for the taking. There are still a few tickets [e-mail] events.

[Interviewer/Host]

Come.

[Rachel Martin]

It's going to be so fun. I'd love to see you there.

[Interviewer/Host]

What's something you've come to peace with?

[Amy Grant]

Time.

[Interviewer/Host]

Time.

[Amy Grant]

If you're trying to create a lovely garden, which I am, that is what I'm truly trying to do at 65 for the first time. Like soup to nuts, beginning to end. And it's like nature wins. It doesn't matter how hard you work. There's so many things you can't control. The weeds will come back, but it's just like the joy in the process. That's gotta be enough.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin and this is Wild Card, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life. Questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one back on me. My guest this week is Amy.

[Amy Grant]

I'm just looking at all those people in the audience. A lot of them, you know, if they're not coloring their hair like I am, it's gray. And they're my contemporaries. And I thought, am I doing us all a disservice by not writing about what life feels like now?

[Rachel Martin]

Lots of people have tried to tell Amy Grant who to be over the

[Interviewer/Host]

course of her music career.

[Rachel Martin]

Sometimes the criticism comes from people who

[Interviewer/Host]

think she's singing about God too much.

[Rachel Martin]

And sometimes it's from people who say she's not singing about God enough. But as someone who has followed Amy Grant's career since I was a kid

[Interviewer/Host]

singing her songs in church, to me, she's always seemed like someone who knows

[Rachel Martin]

exactly who she is and how she

[Interviewer/Host]

wants to live her life.

[Rachel Martin]

She's out with her first new album of original songs in more than a decade. It is called the Me that Remains.

[Interviewer/Host]

And I am so very, very happy to welcome Amy Grant to Wild Card.

[Amy Grant]

Hi. Hi. Rachel Light.

[Interviewer/Host]

Who would have thought we would be

[Amy Grant]

here doing the card game?

[Interviewer/Host]

No, it was very trippy for me. I mean, it is like, I sang

[Rachel Martin]

my first church solo when I was 7, and it was your song, Father's

[Interviewer/Host]

Eyes, and it was like Father's Day.

[Rachel Martin]

So it's like a very core memory for me.

[Amy Grant]

Amy, how'd you do?

[Interviewer/Host]

I've had your voice in my head my whole life.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, I think I did pretty well. I mean, I think there were some tears in the house.

[Interviewer/Host]

I think I really brought it. So.

[Amy Grant]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

We're gonna start with the memories round.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm gonna hold up three at a time.

[Amy Grant]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

And we'll just get right into it. Okay.

[Amy Grant]

I love this.

[Interviewer/Host]

I think you are gonna love it. All right, first three cards. One, Two or three?

[Amy Grant]

Okay, three.

[Interviewer/Host]

Three. When did you first find a group of peers who really understood you?

[Amy Grant]

I think I was born into a group of peers. I'm the youngest of four daughters, and so I just. I grew up just feeling community from the get go.

[Interviewer/Host]

You went to a. What you described as, like, a hippie church when you were in high school.

[Amy Grant]

I did.

[Interviewer/Host]

And that also felt for you? Like you were looking around, you're like, oh, this feels good to me in a different kind of way. This feels like it's comfortable in a way that maybe traditional church didn't feel like to you?

[Amy Grant]

Yeah. I think it just awakened my curiosity because, you know, I'm from the South. I grew up in Nashville, Tennessee, and it's sort of. Especially in the 60s and 70s, it was sort of a cultural norm. Most people went to church, and my family went to church Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night. I can't remember what one preacher ever said, but the music. I just loved the music. And singing and. Yeah, and that's really kind of where my sort of spiritual and emotional mental framework came for all things kind of unseen was from those songs. Yeah. But I think I just was born into a welcoming environment, and so I took the feeling of belonging for granted. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, belonging to a family or to a group, in my mind, it has nothing to do with everybody being the same. It just has to do with everybody being welcomed. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay, next Three. One, two or three.

[Amy Grant]

Okay. One.

[Interviewer/Host]

One. What's a moment with a stranger that made you feel loved?

[Amy Grant]

Whenever there's some kind of transaction that has to happen, what I try to do is I try to see the other person. Sometimes I'll ask them their name or if somebody's kind in a service position. I mean, that just makes the world a better place, doesn't It.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know that destroys me, those little random moments of kindness.

[Amy Grant]

I was leaving the Nashville courthouse and this was last Friday morning. And first off, you know, I'm not used to going downtown, even in Nashville, and like, finding a parking place, not losing my parking ticket, finding my car in the garage. And then I'm getting ready to leave and I pull up and I give the ticket taker in the garage my ticket. And she just smiled at me. And I said, oh, man, a smile like that, that can change the next moment of the day. And I said, what's your name? And she said, my name's Val. And then she looked at me, she said, you're a singer. And I said, I am a singer. And she said, you're married to Vince Gill. And I said, I am married to Vince. And she said, my son was in one of his junior golf programs years ago. No way. Yes. And she said, he got to play on a team. And please tell him I said, thank you. And I said, tell me your son's name. And I said, I will write it down and tell Vince. Yeah, but that was probably two decades ago in the golf program, him playing junior golf. Yeah. And it just made me think, the longer you live, I mean, there's so much layering up of all of our lives. Yeah, yeah. But just seeing the people around you, to me, leads to something potentially good.

[Interviewer/Host]

And it's just there for the taking.

[Amy Grant]

Also, I think, you know, it's low hanging fruit. It is just a smile. Anything. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Last one in this round. 1, 2 or 3?

[Amy Grant]

2.

[Interviewer/Host]

2. When have you felt like you turned a page in your life?

[Amy Grant]

How many pages do we have? Can. Oh, my gosh, I don't know.

[Interviewer/Host]

Pick a page?

[Amy Grant]

Any page. Oh, man, Wendra, I've turned a lot of pages in my life. May I flip this on you?

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, sure. I don't think anyone's ever flipped this one on me. Yeah, I mean, the biggest page turn of my life, I think it's fair to say, is when I decided to

[Rachel Martin]

stop moving around and just be still.

[Interviewer/Host]

And it was this very pivotal moment where I was offered a job to be this. A London based reporter for a television news network. But I just started to see this guy and it really was this moment of, what do you want in your life? Are you gonna keep doing this thing where you just move and move and move? Or might you find out what it's like to just stand still and go deeper in one place and see what happens? And I chose to just stand still and turn the job down and see what was gonna happen with this guy. And things worked out, and we have a lovely life and we have two boys. And it was a big page for me to turn because that's not how I'd been operating in the world. And it's not who I thought I was. I thought I was this mover, mover person. And then I realized that I could get such deeper joy and satisfaction in my life if I just stood still and. And learned what could happen if I just went deeper. So I think that's mine.

[Amy Grant]

Man, that's beautiful.

[Interviewer/Host]

Thanks. So what you got, Amy Grant?

[Amy Grant]

I'm gonna think of one rather recently. So I've had a unique job of opportunity. I get to work, going to go and sing songs that I have sung my whole life, like some from when I was a teenager, my 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and now I'm 65. And I think without realizing it, I felt that it was my responsibility to show up and deliver in a way that I had always delivered. And I think the page that I turned in the last. Somewhere in the last 12 to 18 months is I. And I did it because of a therapy session, but I went to a therapist who'd been a family therapist for several years, and I said, my inner critic is. I don't want to deal with this inner critic, you know, comparing me to a younger version of myself. And she said, I think you should. I think you should write a eulogy to the younger woman.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is beautiful.

[Amy Grant]

And so I did. And, you know, a eulogy, unlike looking back over your past, when your faults are as present as your gifts, eulogy, you know, you really just say the nice things. But something about that exercise, I really just basically bid farewell to that younger woman and said, I'm here, but I can't be her anymore. And it was just so lovely to celebrate that and go, I'm going to stop looking for what I cannot find and then discover all that is. And that's really been a page turner for me.

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[Interviewer/Host]

Let's push back from the game and talk about your album because it's been a minute since you. You've put, you know, pen to paper, metaphorically and, and came up with a body of work, right? 13 years. So what was going on to make this happen?

[Amy Grant]

Well, life was always happening. I never quit touring, you know, 75, 80 shows a year. And, and then, well, you know, just from 2020, for about three years there, four years there, I just, we all had a lot going on. As did I say you had a

[Interviewer/Host]

very bad bike accident?

[Amy Grant]

I did. In 2020, of course, the whole world was shut down for Covid. And so I go see the doctor, do a whole thing of tests and then he calls me the next day and said, you know, you've got an undetected birth defect. You need open heart surgery. And so I recovered from that. Felt so much better. I was like, this is what breathing is supposed to feel like. This is awesome. Because it was a birth defect. Wow. And so, and then two years, two years later, I had this bike accident that I don't remember. But you know, two subsequent surgeries because of that. All that to say was I had to be very patient with my body, very patient with recovery. And I think all those things all went together to make me so glad to be alive. I mean, even this morning I woke up and I was like, hey, I've got another day.

[Interviewer/Host]

All that undoubtedly affected also your creativity in some way. Especially the brain stuff.

[Amy Grant]

No.

[Interviewer/Host]

Like, yeah, your ability to just conjure language, put it down, make songs. Did you feel that slip away for a few years?

[Amy Grant]

I just felt, I felt the limitations of my processing in the. So the summer of 22 was a bike accident. And that fall, I mean, I spent several months of quiet, you Know, no screens. I was not on the phone. Oh, man. And basically that, you know, end of July, August, September, October, I lived in my backyard with my shoes off in the grass, just writing and just trying to recall things.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, wait, not writing songs. Just writing for the sake of trying to engage your brain.

[Amy Grant]

And it really wasn't until, you know, two years later that I started writing songs. I didn't realize I was putting together a record. I was just writing one song at a time. Yeah. And then. And the me that remains was the first song. Yeah, yeah. I think I just remember in the fall of 2022, when my world was very quiet, I just remember saying to Vince, what if this is all I get back? What if this is it? Because to me, I. You know, it's like the world is in a conversation and I am down the hall and in a back bedroom, just like my response time. I love people making me laugh. I love delivering a great one liner. But that doesn't mean happen when you're like three steps behind the rest of the room. Yeah, yeah. And so he just said, amy, life happens to every one of us every day. You know, a virtuoso musician could have a stroke and never be able to pick up their instrument again. All you do is you. You just take the hand you're dealt that day and live the life that you get. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think I started writing because, you know, I went back on tour and toured in 2023. But I'm just looking at all those people in the audience, a lot of them, you know, if they're not coloring their hair like I am, it's gray. And they're my contemporaries. And I. At some point I thought, am I doing us all a disservice by not writing about what life feels like now?

[Interviewer/Host]

Because you were singing songs that you had written decades before. Yeah. And the world looks different with time and age and life and all of us.

[Amy Grant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

It must have felt so good to get in the studio and then sing these songs and lay them down.

[Amy Grant]

You know, I felt some creative limitations. You know, I felt like I was rusty songwriting in a way, you know, so I would either finish a lyric or get started on it, you know, But I. I was a little freer reaching out to people I'd never worked with, saying, hey, I've got this lyric. Any chance you want to help me with the music? Because I. It was just hard for me a little bit to wrap my arms around the music part of it. But.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, isn't it so Freeing in some way to just be like, I'm releasing my expectations and I'm asking for help.

[Amy Grant]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And then people rise to the occasion.

[Amy Grant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I want to ask about one of the songs on the album. The first One is called the 6th of January. Before I listened, I was like, is that.

[Amy Grant]

No.

[Interviewer/Host]

Amy Grant?

[Amy Grant]

No.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is she singing a song about January 6th and.

[Rachel Martin]

I'll be damned.

[Interviewer/Host]

You were?

[Rachel Martin]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

I was, like, just going right. Just going right into it. Tell me about this song and why it was important to you.

[Amy Grant]

Oh, my goodness. I have loved that song from the first time I heard it. It was written by Sandy Lawrence and she played the 6th of January for me, and she had started the song 15 years earlier, so she started it with the second verse. But then, you know, life happens and everything affects everything. And the 6th of January affected that amazing songwriter. And I loved everything about the song. I loved it. Just. It piqued my curiosity.

[Interviewer/Host]

Were you worried at all that any part of your audience was going to be like, this feels like Amy Grant, like, straying out of her lane and, you know, go back to singing about Jesus?

[Amy Grant]

I had a couple of musician friends that I. That I work with, and they said, I don't think you should touch that one. And I said, I love everything about this. And I mean, I've always. I've always welcomed singing the questions. I mean, I've always sung about. I've always sung about unrest in my own life. I thought, why wouldn't I sing about unrest in our. Within our culture? I mean, that's. That's. It's happening at every end of the spectrum at all times. And when you talked about. I made the choice to stay put, to just be there to stay. And I think that we have to be willing to sit quietly in unrest, to not wave a banner, to not pick a team, but to say, where from here? And I think that that requires a kind of quiet on the inside.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you say you can do that without picking a team. You don't want to pick a team right now. You just want people to be still and listen to each other.

[Amy Grant]

I think there's always. In every scenario, there's something to be gained by listening and by. Imagining. What if the. What if our roles were reversed and, you know, what if I were that person. With fewer opportunities? What if I was in that role? And so I guess that does require some imagining. A lot of compassion. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

But it's worth it. This is round two. Three new cards.

[Amy Grant]

All right.

[Interviewer/Host]

One. Two or three?

[Amy Grant]

One.

[Interviewer/Host]

One. What have you Found surprising about getting older.

[Amy Grant]

I don't think I want to say this in an interview.

[Interviewer/Host]

Sure you do. Sure you do.

[Amy Grant]

Oh, man. Something surprising. Something surprising. Oh, my gosh. I actually enjoy moving my body more now than I think I did 10 years ago. There's something about. Yeah. I actually love that about getting older. It's surprising to me how most of us move less and less the older that we get. Yeah. In September, I was in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. I had been on a walk with a musician friend who we tour together, Gene Miller. He's a guitar player, and he's all about fitness. He's always lifting weights. He's, like, doing me through all these movements. He said, get barefoot on the grass. So I went back to my hotel room and I thought, fitness should not require a personal trainer, a membership to the Y, some kind of devices. And I'm just out of curiosity. I said, what if I just, like, picked a couple of movements that put a smile on my face? What if I did these 100 times a day for 100 days? Would it be enough? And just the word enough when it came to any kind of effort, like, oh, my. Well, that feels like a lavish word. It feels enough. Anyway, so I thought, well, what makes me smile? Yeah. And so I wrote down these seven exercises. Movements, I called them. And first day, I did 100 in a row, and it was too much. And I thought, well, that's. I don't want to do that again. And then the next day, I tried splitting them morning and evening, and I thought, well, that's. I don't want to be that sweaty. And so the next day, I broke it up and did it four times. 25 repetitions before my first cup of coffee. 25 repetitions before I closed my eyes. Yeah. And two other random times during the day.

[Interviewer/Host]

Was it enough?

[Amy Grant]

About three weeks in, the sound engineer who mixes the house sound said, hey, what are you doing different? You're singing better. And I went, good. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. And by then, I was so. I was smiling every time I did it. It was not a chore. I renamed the movements Child's Play. And so I haven't missed a day since September 10th.

[Interviewer/Host]

Wow. Good for you.

[Amy Grant]

Yeah. And so, you know, it's just. I don't know. I think I just always. I was not that as intentional. Yeah. And I love that about getting older. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Thank you. That was a lovely answer. Next, three cards. 1, 2, or 3?

[Amy Grant]

3.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is the music you listen to happier or sadder? Than you are.

[Amy Grant]

Interesting. Like both. Yeah, yeah. I mean, music, what a great. It's a great shoehorn to get you out of a bad mood. You know, for me, music, a lot of music that I am exposed to, not that I'm choosing on Spotify, but a lot that I'm just exposed to happens in my home. Because we have a studio in our home. And so a lot of it is like an instrumental. It could be. So it might be songwriters working on a song. So I make music, but I'm married to a musician who works every day and a songwriter who works all the time. And to me, here's what music does. It just like it just peels you wide open. Yeah. And so whatever it's doing invites you there or it augments that you're already there. Just whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

There's real liberation in that.

[Amy Grant]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay, last one in this round. 1. 2 or 3.

[Amy Grant]

1.

[Interviewer/Host]

How much do you rely on the validation of others?

[Amy Grant]

I think I am mindful that everyone is so different. Everybody. You know, my family, like my sisters, between my sisters and me and our spouses and the kids we've birthed and then their families, you know, Thanksgiving or Easter, even if not everybody can show up. We're talking 60 people. And if, and if everybody shows up and brings a few extra 75, you know, and we all cook Easter, we had a super spreader vomiting virus. It's like, oh my God, should we ever gather as a family again? We're all, we're all different, you know, and it's like, I think it just makes me like I try to say to myself and I try to say to my children and my nieces and nephews and my siblings, you, you've got to honor what energizes you. You can't. You know, you're the only person that occupies that lane. Yeah. And it's so important to, to know what picks you up. But it's going to be different from anybody else. And so if you, you've got to be able to. You just gotta be able to celebrate the things that fill your tank. Don't be looking for somebody else to go, woo hoo. I'm the exact same way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's less about approval. I mean, you know, it's really just about try to connect with yourself and let whatever space you're meant to take up in the universe fill all that, emerge with all of that beauty and purpose and just look at your unique life that way. Even if you don't, even if you don't even know what is my purpose exactly, but to know whatever it is that's unique to you.

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Health Co founders Joanna Strober and Dr. Kathleen Jordan discuss why they started a virtual care platform to empower and educate women in perimenopause and menopause.

[Joanna Strober]

Historically, perimenopause and menopause have been very stigmatizing. So people haven't wanted to admit that they are in perimenopause and menopause as though it was like embarrassing, which is insane. It's just something happening to your body. So one of the things that we're trying to do is destigmatize these topics. Perimenopause and menopause are just women's health. So we try to educate women all the time. Maybe it's your hormones and we would like to help you.

[Amy Grant]

Yeah. And I find women actually want to talk about it.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's one of the things they always comment at MIDI is that they finally feel heard. One of the ways that women find

[Amy Grant]

MIDI is actually from other women and I think it's meaningful.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Midi Health committed to helping women in midlife with perimenopause and menopause care, accessible via telehealth [e-mail].

[Interviewer/Host]

Amy Grant we're at our last round. Beliefs 1, 2 or 3?

[Amy Grant]

Three.

[Interviewer/Host]

What truth guides your life more than any other? A big one.

[Amy Grant]

We, we are loved. That's the truth. And so the lens, you know, I was raised, I see so many things through a scripture lens, you know, for God so loved the world. It's like nature. That's the environment, that's the people loved. And then the we is important because one of my Rituals every day is to say the Lord's Prayer. It kicks right off. You know, when people were asking Jesus, how do we pray? He said, pray like this. And he was very simple. He said, our Father. And I don't know that that had ever been used before, but it's like our. The people I agree with, the people with whom I disagree. Our. Yeah. That person whose actions are turning me inside out is loved. Is loved. And we are connected.

[Interviewer/Host]

So does that connection compel you to love that person? Because it's different to say this person is loved by God, the universe, whatever, but there's still a separation in that love. Does it compel you to love that person?

[Amy Grant]

Well, ultimately, that's what I hope for. Mm. And I. And I think that. I think love God and love each other. Is this the instruction that I receive? I've heard, but it rings true in me. Like,

[Interviewer/Host]

it's a beautiful answer. That's the truth that guides your life.

[Amy Grant]

That is the truth that guides my life. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

One, two, or three?

[Amy Grant]

Two.

[Interviewer/Host]

What's something you've come to peace with?

[Amy Grant]

Time. Time. Because, you know, if you're trying to create a lovely garden. Which I am. That is what I'm truly trying to do at 65 for the first time. Like soup to nuts. Beginning to end. One time.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, an actual garden.

[Amy Grant]

An actual garden.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, an actual garden. Okay. Not just a metaphor for living.

[Amy Grant]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

An actual garden.

[Amy Grant]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, man. Nature wins. It doesn't matter how hard you work, nature wins. I mean, you can just, like, you can work hard. You can. And. But there's so many things you can't control. You know, the weeds will come back. The grass. You know, but it's just like the joy in the process. Mm. Is. That's gotta be enough. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Last one. One, two, or three?

[Amy Grant]

One. I'll take one.

[Interviewer/Host]

One. Have your feelings about God changed over time?

[Amy Grant]

Yes, they have. I don't think God has changed. Mm. But I. Mm. I. When I was younger, I just remember thinking, I've gotta get all this right. My beliefs have to be right, not right for everybody else. But I don't want to miss. This matters to me. And I don't want to be wrong.

[Interviewer/Host]

And it's not that way anymore.

[Amy Grant]

It's not.

[Interviewer/Host]

It doesn't feel like you have to be right or. Oh, I know.

[Amy Grant]

I'm.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know.

[Amy Grant]

So many times I'm a lost ball in high grass. I think what I. Whatever my childhood understanding, whatever I pictured God to be. Now at 65, sometimes I will Be in the backyard at night, and I can't sleep, and I am, like. I can't even wrap my head around. And so I, like. I can spend. I can spend a lot of time, like, taking a passage of, like, maybe verses I've memorized from the Bible. And rather than just read them, if I memorize them, then I can. It feels like a planetarium. I can get in the middle of them. I can let my head spin around it. I can, like, let every word just kind of float, and it. I feel like it gets bigger. And so it is fascinating to me to, Like, take a section of these ancient words that are part of Scripture. Yeah. And just, like, sing them and chant them and think about them and let my mind wander, and I just add all this imagination around them. And then I go. Whatever I can imagine is coming from a finite human brain. And I'm supposed to, like. And God and goodness and Jesus and love. All those things. Like, whatever I can think is not even a drop in the bucket. Whatever I think is, like, no swing and a miss. That's where it feels different.

[Interviewer/Host]

Tumbling.

[Amy Grant]

Yeah. So. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So to feel small that way.

[Amy Grant]

Yeah. In a beautiful way. To feel small like all of us. Every day I sit here and go, everybody's impact is enormous. And let's get real. Each one of us is like a white blood cell, a red blood cell in the body of mankind.

[Interviewer/Host]

We end the show the same way every time with a trip in our memory time machine. Okay.

[Amy Grant]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

In the memory time machine, you go back and revisit one moment from your past. It's not a moment you want to change anything about. It's just a moment you'd like to

[Amy Grant]

linger in a little longer. It's fun.

[Interviewer/Host]

What moment do you choose?

[Amy Grant]

I'm not sure why this moment came to me, but my sister Carol, We had. We had children within 24 hours of each other, and we were in the same hospital in rooms next door. Wow. And after everybody left, I sort of gingerly made my way to her hospital room and. And I crawled up in the bed with her because we spent so much time when we were kids sharing a bed or crawling each other's beds, and we laid the babies we had just had side by side, and all four of us were in bed. And just what we'd been through and what we. Yeah. It was just like, what are the chances that we could have shared that time? That was. That's rare. Yeah, that's rare. Oh, my God.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's so beautiful. What a gift of an experience that's just wild.

[Amy Grant]

Yeah, I linger there.

[Interviewer/Host]

Amy Grant her new album is called the Me that Remains. I am so thrilled to have gotten to do this with you. Thank you so much.

[Amy Grant]

Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

[Rachel Martin]

If you like this conversation, go back and check out the episode I did with another Nashville resident, Casey Musgraves. I especially loved how Casey described the plot of Land she grew up on, the legacy of that place, and the ghost stories that linger there. This episode was produced by Mitra Arthur and Lee Hale. It was edited by Dave Blanchard and mastered by Becky Brown. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni and our theme music is by Ramtin Arablouei. You can reach out to [e-mail] we're gonna shuffle the deck and be back with more next week.

[Interviewer/Host]

Talk to you then.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

This message comes from the University of Miami, where they're building a faster way forward. It's why they invited AI into the nursing classroom, tested the worst storms imaginable so cities didn't have to, and redefined dementia research with a dolphin. The University of Miami is where disciplines collide, breakthroughs are built and ideas are put into action. Because when action leads, impact follows. See what's on the [e-mail]. this message comes from Bombus. Upgrade your summer staples with soft socks, cushy sandals and breezy basics. One purchase means one donated. With over 200 million donations and counting, go to bombus.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off your first purchase.

This message comes from Integrative Therapeutics, makers of Cortisol Manager. Daily stressors come and go, and heightened stress can affect sleep and focus. Cortisol Manager helps support a healthy response to everyday stress. Available at Amazon.com use code stress2026 for 20% off. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.