Aparna Nancherla doesn't know why she's here

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin: Aparna Nancherla Doesn’t Know Why She’s Here

Released July 24, 2025 | NPR | Host: Rachel Martin

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Wild Card, Rachel Martin delves deep into the psyche of comedian Aparna Nancherla, exploring her intricate relationship with anxiety, her introspective nature, and the unique perspectives she brings to her craft. Recognized as one of The New York Times Top 10 Podcasts of 2024, Wild Card breaks away from traditional interview formats, using a special deck of cards to navigate life's profound questions.

Personal Anecdotes and Family Stories

Aparna begins by sharing a heartwarming yet humorous family story that highlights her childhood sweet tooth and emotional expression. Reflecting on her early years, she recounts attending a holiday potluck at around four or five years old, where an abundance of desserts triggered a tantrum:

“I threw a huge tantrum, like rolling on the floor, literally, until my parents... I got a big takeout container of... literally a sample of each cake that was in the room.” (02:13)

This story not only illustrates her vivacious childhood spirit but also underscores a recurring theme in her life: achieving desires yet feeling an underlying sense of disappointment.

Navigating Anxiety in Comedy

Rachel adeptly frames Aparna as someone torn between the external demands of stand-up comedy and her internal battles with anxiety. Aparna candidly discusses how her anxiety is intricately woven into her comedic material, contributing to her role in the documentary Anxiety Club.

“When I started stand-up comedy... another comic approached me... he wrote some for you. And truly some of the worst jokes.” (04:44)

This early advice to incorporate her Indian heritage into her act was met with reluctance, leading Aparna to focus more on her personal experiences and internal observations. Over time, she has grown more confident in aligning her comedy with her true self rather than external expectations.

Insights: The Inner World of an Introvert

In exploring what Aparna is like when no one is around, she paints a vivid picture of her rich internal landscape:

“I think the funny thing about being an introvert... I'm like, I have so much to say. And I'm this huge personality and it's all... contained inside.” (14:31)

However, this internal abundance often leads to overwhelm, especially when transitioning from solitude to social interactions. Aparna likens her experience to the comic character Jean Grey from X-Men, overwhelmed by incessant thoughts and conversations in her head.

Fixations and Existential Musings

Aparna opens up about her fixations, particularly her preoccupation with existential questions and the fear of mortality:

“Why am I here? What am I doing?... it feels like we're all in a big play and like, nobody is. It's like nobody is acknowledging that we're all just kind of little pieces on a big board and none of this really matters.” (20:47)

These profound contemplations often lead to moments of paralysis in her daily life, such as difficulty responding to emails, highlighting the pervasive impact of her anxiety.

Beliefs and Moral Compass

When discussing her beliefs, Aparna reflects on the evolution of her moral understanding. Initially raised with clear ethical guidelines emphasizing honesty and honor, she now embraces a more nuanced perspective:

“I feel like my moral compass has shifted in the direction of, like, it's okay to be wrong and to readjust things that maybe you took for granted when you were younger.” (28:34)

This shift allows her to navigate complex moral landscapes with greater empathy and flexibility, moving beyond rigid black-and-white thinking.

Rage and Emotional Expression

Aparna candidly addresses her struggles with anger management, particularly how escalating rage manifests in private spaces like her car:

“I've started, like, screaming in my car. And I scare myself sometimes because I’m like, where did that sound come out of? It's not even road rage.” (33:27)

She speculates whether hormonal changes, such as perimenopause, contribute to this heightened anger, allowing long-suppressed grievances to surface.

Guiding Truths and Life Moments

Aparna concludes the conversation by sharing the truth that most profoundly guides her life: the significance of small, meaningful moments over grand achievements. She reminisces about a peaceful moment at a secluded waterfall with her now-separated partner:

“I just felt like such enormous peace and just like I could just stand there forever and would be fine if that was kind of it for me.” (36:08)

This emphasis on fleeting, intimate experiences underscores her pursuit of lasting peace over transient happiness.

Memory Time Machine: Lingering in Peace

As the episode wraps up, Aparna reflects on a cherished memory that encapsulates her quest for tranquility amidst chaos:

“One time we landed in front of sort of a secret little waterfall... I just remember standing in front of it and I just felt like such enormous peace...” (39:19)

This moment serves as a poignant reminder of the grounding power of nature and personal connections in her life.

Conclusion

Throughout this episode, Aparna Nancherla offers an unfiltered glimpse into her struggle with anxiety, her journey towards self-acceptance, and the delicate balance she maintains between her comedic persona and personal introspection. Rachel Martin skillfully navigates these themes using the Wild Card deck, allowing for a deeply personal and revealing conversation that resonates with listeners who seek understanding and connection.

For those interested in exploring more about Aparna’s approach to mental health and comedy, her contributions to the documentary Anxiety Club provide additional layers to her narrative.

Notable Quotes:

• Aparna Nancherla (02:13): “I threw a huge tantrum... I got a big takeout container of... literally a sample of each cake that was in the room.”

• Aparna Nancherla (14:31): “I'm like, I have so much to say. And I'm this huge personality and it's all... contained inside.”

• Aparna Nancherla (20:47): “Why am I here? What am I doing?... nobody is acknowledging that we're all just kind of little pieces on a big board.”

• Aparna Nancherla (28:34): “It's okay to be wrong and to readjust things that maybe you took for granted when you were younger.”

• Aparna Nancherla (33:27): “I've started, like, screaming in my car. And I scare myself sometimes because I’m like, where did that sound come out of?”

• Aparna Nancherla (36:08): “I just felt like such enormous peace and just like I could just stand there forever and would be fine if that was kind of it for me.”

Production Credits:

• Producer: Summer Tomad
• Editor: Dave Blanchard
• Mastered by: Patrick Murray
• Executive Producer: Yolanda Sangweni
• Theme Music: Ramtin Arablouei

Further Listening:

If you enjoyed this insightful conversation with Aparna, be sure to listen to Rachel Martin’s episode with actor and filmmaker Jesse Eisenberg, where he discusses channeling existential anxiety into creative endeavors. Available on the Wild Card NPR website.

Connect with Wild Card:

Reach out and share your thoughts at wildcard.npr.org. Stay tuned for more transformative conversations powered by the Wild Card deck.

Transcript

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[Rachel Martin]

What are you like when no one is around?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Ooh, I think the funny thing about being an introvert is in your head. You're kind of like, almost go in that. I'm like, I have so much to say. And I'm this huge personality and it's all, like, contained inside.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wild Card, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life. Questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one back on me. My guest this week is comedian Aparna Nancharla.

[Aparna Nancherla]

As soon as someone, including me, I guess, imposes structure on myself, I'm immediately enraged that someone's trying to make me do something.

[Rachel Martin]

Aparna Nancherla seems to me like someone living between two impulses. One of them pulls her to stand on a stage and tell jokes and take up space and stand out, and the other pulls her in the opposite direction, inwards into her own head, where anxiety is just waiting to regale her with all the worst case scenarios that it's drummed up. While she's been out being a famous comedian, Aparna has made her anxiety a big part of her comedy, which has landed her in a new documentary about the struggle that unites a whole lot of comedians. It's called Anxiety Club. And I'm so happy to welcome Aparna Nancherla to Wildcard. Hi.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Hi. Thank you so much for having me. And my anxiety.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, you bet. Welcome to both of you.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah, we're both here. We're both here.

[Rachel Martin]

Let's get to it. You ready?

[Aparna Nancherla]

I'm ready.

[Rachel Martin]

Let's do it. Memories. First three cards. One, two or three.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Okay. One, two or three. I'm gonna go two. Right down the middle.

[Rachel Martin]

Number two. What's a story your family always tells about you?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Oh, okay. Well, when I was younger, I had a really. I mean, I guess I still do, but a really powerful sweet tooth. And one story that my family always loves telling about me is that my parents once took me to a holiday potluck when I was maybe four or five. The exact age, I don't know, but apparently there was a big room full of desserts and, like, cakes and, you know, in a kid's mind, it's like kind of. It was almost like a Disney movie. It was like every cake you could imagine. And of course, I, like a small boy king was like, I must have a piece of cake of each one. And I threw a huge tantrum, like rolling on the floor, literally, until my parents. Cause we were getting ready to go and I was like, I must have a piece. And the hosts were kind of like, just give her what she needs. Like, she's making a big scene. So I got a big takeout container of like, literally a sample of each cake that was in the room. And then I somehow also have a memory of waking up the next morning and I think it had all kind of congealed and into one big lump. And I was convinced I had been tricked somehow that they didn't actually.

[Rachel Martin]

They just like piled some slop, like some old stew into a Tupperware and gave that to you, convinced you it was delicious cake pieces.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah. I don't know. The end part of it is really the telling part to me where I was like, you even got what you wanted and you still were disappointed. That seems to be a theme in my life.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm also curious. You didn't eat the cake. You didn't just go home and eat the cake. Your parents were like, you can have this. We will abide this. We will indulge this. But by God, you are not eating it before bed.

[Aparna Nancherla]

I think it was more that thing of like a kid is like, this is my life. Cause, like, I am going to throw myself on the ground for this belief that I now am, you know, Cain, the only thing I've ever believed. And then, of course, I think I passed out on the car ride home. Just spent with my. Yeah, zealotry. And then, you know, woke up the next morning like, okay, now it's time.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, three more cards. One, two or three?

[Aparna Nancherla]

One, One.

[Rachel Martin]

What's a piece of advice you were smart to ignore?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Oh, well, this one's pretty glaring. But when I started stand up comedy, I would say maybe within a month or two of doing open mics, this other comic approached me and was like, hey, I noticed, like, you know, you don't do a lot of jokes about being Indian in your act and I think that would really, like, help you out. And then he was like, I actually wrote some for you. And truly some of the worst jokes.

[Rachel Martin]

He was not South Asian.

[Aparna Nancherla]

No, no, he wasn't. Indeed. Of course. No, he was not.

[Rachel Martin]

No, not that that would.

[Aparna Nancherla]

I mean, I guess he was like.

[Rachel Martin]

Slightly better, but still offensive, but still.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah, I think if he, if I think maybe part of him was like, man, if I were, I would be, you know, mining this. Like, what? Yeah, so I think part of him not being. It fed into his, like, this is a great idea. But yeah, the jokes were not the best.

[Rachel Martin]

Did you make a conscious decision when you set out to not do that? Or it was just like, these are things I think are funny and maybe they have to do with me being from an Indian background and maybe not.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah, I think for me it was like, I have always been so internal and living kind of from the inside out, looking on the world that I often forget, like, how big a role identity plays and how other people see you. And so my thing is like, oh, I'm just kind of a blob floating through the world and I forget about things like, oh, but you're also South Asian and people think about that when they look at you. I mean, I think I've come into that more the longer I've done it. But yeah, when I was started, I was not really. I wasn't like, oh, I have funny immigrant parents and I should talk about that. Like, my comedy was very much like, I'm a little bird that's never left its nest and I'm experiencing the world for the first time and everything's crazy.

[Rachel Martin]

And also, I remember didn't you do a line earlier in your career when you would come out and you'd be like, I know, I'm surprised. I'm a comedian too, or something like that?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yes, yes. Which I think was feeding into to me, that joke. Always I felt a love hate relationship with. Cause I think I knew sometimes people would be like, oh, South Asian woman. Weird at the time when I first started doing it. But I always was like, more thinking about it, my personality and like, how I relate to the world. Like, it's so weird that I've chosen this field, but obviously they're going off of more like first impressions outward. Yeah. Exterior. So I think I stopped doing it after a while because I was just like, I don't know if I love.

[Rachel Martin]

What I'm saying here and are you saying it for yourself or for someone else or. Yeah.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yes. Yeah. Which is a big, you know, battle with standup sometimes, especially when you're starting where, you know, you're trying to please an audience, but you're also like, what do I think is funny? And sometimes you're, you're leaning more on what they think is funny. And I think ideally you're trying to get closer to what really makes me delighted. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Are you more squarely there these days?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah, I think so. I mean, even in just that, you know, you still have shows, even as long as you've been doing it, where they don't go well or the audience isn't really into what you're saying. And I feel like before I used to then scramble to be like, oh, maybe they'll like this instead. Or I'll try to lean more into what it seems like they want. And now I just, I'm just like, this is. This is what I'm, you know, this is what I'm putting out there. And I think tonight we're just both gonna have a bad.

[Rachel Martin]

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[Rachel Martin]

Let'S pivot a little bit. This new documentary. It is called Anxiety Club. Do you see more people in your life not just necessarily in comedy, but do you think your anxiety or knowing people with it, does it normalize it to a degree or does it still feel very particular and isolating to you?

[Aparna Nancherla]

I think it does normalize it, but I do think everyone's anxiety is sort of like different genres because it's like sometimes mine shows up a lot around performing or like work, whereas someone else's might be like, I Think I'm gonna crash my car every time I get behind the wheel. Like, there's different strains of it, and I feel like, you know, there's extroverted anxious people, there's introverted, anxious people. So I think it's still, you know, like. Like people discussing musical tastes where there's going to be, like, varying opinions and things. But I think just the fact of being like, we both have it is sort of like, yeah, we're both in this club and we understand the overall deal of how it goes. But then the details of it can vary, I would say, a lot from person to person. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Does it just seem to the layperson that comedians suffer more from anxiety as a proportion of the general population because they just talk about it more because it's fodder for its material? Or is there something about comedy and standup in particular that attracts the already anxious?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah, I always wrestle with that question, and I do think maybe there is just facets of. Especially, like, a depressive brain, a neurotic brain, someone who thinks a lot about everything. That just translates very well to stand up. Because standup as an art form is essentially just turning over everything, like norms and hyper observations. Yes. Yeah. And kind of picking apart, like, why do we do the things we do? So it's like one side of the coin for me is like, why do we get up in the morning? I'm gonna write a joke about it. Cause sometimes I don't feel like I want to. And then the other side of, why do I get up in the morning?

[Rachel Martin]

Actually, why do I get up?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Like, it's. Yeah, it's kind of two pats off the same impulse.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

You said that you do suffer some anxiety around performing, so it's not necessarily an antidote for you.

[Aparna Nancherla]

No, not for me. Because. Yeah. I think. Yeah. I think some people, it's sort of like the stage is where they can let everything go. And for me, it's like, up until I get on stage, it's kind of like, why did I do this? How did I end up here? Again, like, a little gravity. Yeah. Yeah. Who did this to me?

[Rachel Martin]

But really, you must have. You've developed tools or something has shifted. It can't be torture every time, because.

[Aparna Nancherla]

That would be masochistic. I think it's.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Aparna Nancherla]

And I think it's more the. Like, I don't want to let people down or like, I. I feel something's off today, and I'm not. I should have. Like, I would have been better if I waited a day to do this show or something. Like, I think it's always just kind of hyper. Focusing on the negative is sometimes what anxiety does. And I've learned to find ways to be like, nope. Like, yeah, you might be a little off today. And that's kind of just life.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Well, let's keep exploring these things with cards. You ready to get back into it?

[Aparna Nancherla]

I'm ready.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. Round two. Insights. Insights. Three new cards. One, two, or three?

[Aparna Nancherla]

I'm gonna go three.

[Rachel Martin]

Three. What are you like when no one is around?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Ooh. I think the funny thing about being an introvert is in your head, you're kind of like, almost. And I guess I don't want to speak for all introverts, but, like, godlike in that I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. Charming. And I have so many thoughts, and I have so much to say, and I'm this huge personality, and it's all, like, contained inside. And then I try to have, like, an actual conversation with a person, and I'm like, I get. I don't know what I ate for breakfast. You know, like, it just doesn't always seem to come out the way it is in my head. So I feel like in my head when I'm not around other people, and I'm like, I just feel like. I don't know. I almost feel like. I sounds so grandiose, but I'm like, I just have so many ideas, and I have. I'm. Yeah, it's almost like I'm picturing that. I think it's from X Men or something, but it's like the person who has telepathy where they're just like, Jean Grey. I think it's Jean Grey where she just, like. There's so many things coming into her head. She, like, can't even handle it. It's so much like I sometimes feel like that where I'm like, There's so many conversations happening in my head. I'm like. Can barely keep track of any of them. And that part feels overwhelming. By myself.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, that part. But we started. It was an interesting answer because you started in a positive place. Like, when you're alone, you're like the queen of your own universe. You're the most charming person of all time. You're super smart. You've got all these ideas if people could just see them. But then you talk to her into it. But then they can be too much. And then all of a sudden, it went from a really good thing to be alone to. And now I'm overwhelmed By everything that's happening in my head. And maybe that's just the natural cycle of introvert anxiety. It's like you need to go away to restore yourself. And yes, then you can be the queen. And then after a while you're like, and now I gotta get out of my head and get out of this room.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah, I can actually, like, interface with other people. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, let's move on. Three new cards. One, two, three.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Let's go three again.

[Rachel Martin]

Three. Hmm. I just feel like there could be a lot of answers to this question. What do you find yourself getting fixated on?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Ooh. Okay. I'm fast because my head is so busy. I'm like, fascinated by what other. What is consuming other people. So I'm gonna flip this one.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean. I mean, so many things.

[Aparna Nancherla]

So.

[Rachel Martin]

Yesterday I was well, is that getting fixated when you think you're going to die? Is that fixated?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Great question. I would say yes. I would say philosophers since time immemorial. And I would say, yes, I am.

[Rachel Martin]

A little fixated on that. I was in. I had to fly from one city to another city and I'm on a plane and I've flown so many times. Like, I used to live on planes for my job. I was all. And in my old age, or maybe having kids or. I don't know what it is, I. There was turbulence and I thought this was it. I thought. And it was. I texted my husband and I'm like, I don't know if this is the right thing to say, but I'm really freaking out. And I just want you to know that I was like, don't tell him. Don't say you love him, because that's gonna be. He's gonna think that you really are dying if you say I love you in this text message. So I didn't do that.

[Aparna Nancherla]

But I. I can't believe you.

[Rachel Martin]

I was really working myself up. And in general, I'm just. I have a real. I imagine myself like going down in certain circumstances where I get killed. Because somehow for me, imagining the worst case scenarios makes me feel better. Like I'm prepared.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Oh, yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

I like saw myself get hit by that truck. It's definitely. And then I convince myself it's not going to happen. Like, if I can imagine a thing that's going to happen, then it's definitely not going to happen. Because I could imagine it and that'd be weird. If I imagine it and then it happened.

[Aparna Nancherla]

And then it happens. Yeah. I also thought it was so funny that you did not want to text your husband, I love you. You're still doing emotional labor up until you're.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, I didn't want to stress him out. I didn't want to stress him out.

[Aparna Nancherla]

So I really relate to that, though. I've become such a nervous flyer as someone who has also traveled a lot for work. And I just went on a flight with pretty bad turbulence or it was bad to me. I don't even know if I've just gotten more sensitive. And I had a middle seat, which never. I try to avoid at all costs, but it was overbooked. And I literally spent most of the flight with my head between my knees. And I felt so sorry for the people next to me because I was like, this is not great body language.

[Rachel Martin]

I did not care. Yesterday I was audibly, like, I was like, making old lady sounds and I was like, I thought about the cool looking girl next to me. I'm like, she thinks I'm so, so dumb. And I was like, forget her. I am. I am just leaning into this. I am afraid I'm just gonna be fine with my fear.

[Aparna Nancherla]

I mean, it's probably a bad sign that every time I sit on a flight now, I look at the people next to me and I'm like, how do I feel about dying next to you? I mean, if you're the last person I see, how is that gonna feel?

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, so you heard all my fixations. Share one of yours?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yes.

[Rachel Martin]

What do you find yourself? Is there a pattern to fixation for you?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah, I mean, mine always just goes straight back to like, the big question of, like, why am I here? What am I doing?

[Rachel Martin]

Is that true? Really? You, like, get big, big, big.

[Aparna Nancherla]

I would say every day in the afternoon, I just get a huge wave of like, what is the point of any of this? And sometimes it leans more into depression, but a lot of times it is just like, what are we all doing? Like, it feels like we're all in a big play and like, nobody is. Is like nobody is acknowledging that we're all just kind of like little pieces on a big board and none of this really matters. Like, we're all. It's all random that we're all even here. Like, I. I get so weighed down by that those, like, big questions. And then I can't, like, answer an email that I need to answer.

[Rachel Martin]

I can imagine that because those are big questions to swim around in on a daily basis, you know?

[Aparna Nancherla]

I know. And you know the way, like, I guess it's like AI or something. Like Auto guesses what you're gonna write now, like, in an email or something. I feel like mine are just, like, how are you? Why are we all here?

[Rachel Martin]

It's, like, learned. Oh, Aparna. This is what she wants to say.

[Aparna Nancherla]

In this text message. What is it all for? Talk soon.

[Rachel Martin]

We have one more in this round.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. One, two, or three?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Let's go with one.

[Rachel Martin]

How good are you at making big life decisions? Sorry, I shouldn't have laughed at that. I just felt like we'd been laying.

[Aparna Nancherla]

The groundwork for a certain answer. Yeah, I feel like you got a little teaser of what. What I will say.

[Rachel Martin]

But who knows? You could turn out to be a person who maybe is racked with all kinds of anxiety, but. And a byproduct of that is making, like, really impulsive, fast decisions.

[Aparna Nancherla]

I would say I'm not a great decision maker. I'm often, you know, feeling something in my gut but then needing to run it by, like, three other people to be like, but what would your gut do in this scenario? Like, I'm always trying to crowdsource my intuition, which I don't feel great about. I feel like your intuition is your own and you should lean into that. But I wouldn't say I'm terrible. Like, I'll usually make the decision, and then the work for me is not rehashing over and over again. Was that the right decision?

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

What's a big one you had to make recently that you can talk about.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Was a big decision I had to make recently? I think sometimes it just ends up being a work thing where it's like, should I? And this feels. I feel like sometimes if you go into a career that's like, you know, And I'm sure journalism is like this too, where you can't always pick the circumstances. So I think a lot of times it'll be like, do I go celebrate my mom's 60th birthday, or do I agree to this show? And I think those are the ones that really kill me, because I'm like, I should go be with my family. But the mentality in standup is, like, you never know when you're gonna be offered another show.

[Rachel Martin]

I get this 1000%. I left my maternity leave early with my second child because someone convinced me that this was the only chance that I. I had been asked to, like, sit in on some big show and be the host of some show for the first time. And I kind of just don't know if they're gonna ask again. I love darn It, I mean, yeah. These things.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Oh, I can't. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

So, yeah.

[Aparna Nancherla]

But I will say, like, when you. I've gotten so much more comfortable with being like, you know what, it's okay if I don't do that thing. And honestly, even if they don't ask me again to do it, I'm also okay with that. Like, I don't know what happened with getting older, but I think you hit your 40s and you are just like, time is so limited and I don't know why I didn't acknowledge that sooner. Like, I. Yeah, I would actually rather see my friend than go do a show for, you know, strangers. And that may or may not be fun.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. I mean, I think inevitably some of that comes with age, but some of it does come with some success. Right. If you were to. It was harder, no doubt, earlier in your career.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Oh, yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

And so you can look around and be like, I'm good. I got to a certain point where I've got some credibility built up in the industry and it gives you more freedom.

[Aparna Nancherla]

And I think especially if you're like a woman in a male dominated industry or another like, marginalized group where there aren't a lot of you, you really feed into that belief of like, I don't know when they'll ask me again. They really like, the data shows they may not ask me again. Like, there's only so many spots. And so I think that compounds that kind of like scarcity mentality.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Dignity Memorial. For many families, remembering loved ones means honoring the details that made them unique. Dignity Memorial is dedicated to professionalism and compassion in every detail of a life celebration. Find a provider near [e-mail] this message comes from Amazon.

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[Rachel Martin]

We are now at the third round.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Oh, my goodness.

[Rachel Martin]

I know.

[Aparna Nancherla]

It flew by. It did.

[Rachel Martin]

It finally did. Okay, beliefs 1, 1, 2, or 3?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Let's do 2.

[Rachel Martin]

2. Are there any recurring symbols that show up in your life?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Ooh, recurring symbols. Man, I might skip this one because nothing's coming to mind.

[Rachel Martin]

Fair enough. Skipped. Who or what is your moral compass?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Ooh. I think I am generally my own moral compass, but I would say in recent years, one of the positive sides of the Internet, because I guess we can acknowledge there are some in is. I just have learned a lot more to acknowledge what I don't know and, like, how there are so many experiences that are outside of mine that I could understand better if I just, like, learned a little about them. And I think that. I think for me, my moral compass has shifted in the direction of, like, it's okay to be wrong and to readjust things that maybe you took for a given when you were younger or even last year.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Did your parents raise you with a pretty clear, articulate ethical code?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah, I think there was a very clear right and wrong delineation. And I think I always was one of those kids who was very principled of, like, you don't steal, you don't lie. Like, those are bad. Like, you, you have to be honorable. Like, I think that was actually something I internalized very early. But I think now, now I feel a lot more nuance around those things where I'm like, well, if the system is rigged, then I don't know, if someone steals, you know, a piece of bread or something. Like, maybe they just needed it more than, like, paying for. I don't know. I think there's just more give around a lot of things that when I was younger, I was like, no, like, a good person would not do that. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Is the mushiness of those strict ethical guidelines, does that add to your anxiety or your nihilism? If I could call it that.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah, I think you're right. Because I think when you have such rigid beliefs or non negotiables, it gives you a sense of control and it gives you a sense of like, if I just do X, Y and Z, I will be okay. I will be safe and the world will make sense. And when those things aren't given and they are mushy and they are gray and you can Get a lot more in the weeds of, like. But then I get this sandwich because I'm in a position, you know, where I was just given the right factors to get this and why do I have it as opposed to this person. And so I think it can be really tricky of, like, don't turn this into navel gazing versus, like, you can show up in the world and do some good with the, you know, lottery ticket you've been given. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. We're moving on. Thank you for that. Three new cards. One, two or three?

[Aparna Nancherla]

I will go with two. Two again, I think.

[Rachel Martin]

What's the most religious thing about you?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Oh, most religious thing I will say I don't think I have an official OCD diagnosis, but I am someone who really gets stuck in rituals where I am obsessed with structure, in that I think I need structure, because otherwise, like we were discussing, I get caught up in these big questions, and then I don't do anything. And I get sort of. So I'm like, okay, if you make little schedules and to do lists and you do things in a certain order every day, that'll kind of keep you moving forward. But then.

[Rachel Martin]

And that feels religious to you, just the structure and the habit of it?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah, I thought of ritual. Religion, to me, feels kind of like ritual, and. Yeah, yeah. So I think I went that way with it. But it's weird because I also have an impulse of, like, as soon as someone, including me, I guess, imposes structure on myself, I'm immediately enraged that someone's trying to make me do something where it's like, you know, I'm, like, trying to meditate more. And now it's like, oh, I gotta meditate for 20 minutes or I'm not gonna be able to check that off. And I'm like, I don't think that's how you're supposed to approach meditation.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm gonna say a thing that you're gonna be annoyed at, but you don't seem to be, like, a person who outwardly rages.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Right.

[Rachel Martin]

Tell me I'm wrong. And how does your rage.

[Aparna Nancherla]

I don't really. Outwardly, I didn't rage a lot when I was younger, But I will say, as I've gotten older, I don't know if it's, you know, perimenopause or what, but the rage levels have been way higher in just a way that's harder to tamp down or compartmentalize. And, yeah, I've started, like, screaming in my car. And I scare myself sometimes because I'M like, where did that sound come out of? It's not even road rage. I'll just be. It's not even at another person.

[Rachel Martin]

Driving is incidental to the rage.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah, I'll just be mad. And I'm like, this is the only space in which I feel like I can safely do this.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, yeah, because it's like a safe space or just, like, sitting there.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Yeah, because I'm like, if I'm in a house, I don't know, someone. My neighbor could hear me or something. But yeah, I guess maybe also on the road, you're like, I'm sure everyone's screaming in their car. This is normal.

[Rachel Martin]

But what are you so mad? What are you mad about?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Some of it. I don't know. I almost feel like, is this a stage of life where, like, you know, your hormones fluctuate and, like, everything you've been mad about just surfaces finally because you never expressed it fully earlier. It's just like decades of grievances are coming out. Cause sometimes it does feel like I'm an oracle and I'm channeling some sort of ancestral, you know, outrage.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, you got. Then you need to let that stuff out. You do.

[Aparna Nancherla]

I know.

[Rachel Martin]

Because if that is true, if that's our operating thesis, that this has been, like, decades or perhaps millennia of generational rage, then, you know, I don't. Maybe it's perimenopause. I mean, I blame so many things on perimenopause, but even if it is, who cares? You gotta let that stuff out.

[Aparna Nancherla]

I do, too. You gotta let that stuff out. I know, I know. And I grew up. I think, like, a lot of people, like, just very uncomfortable around expressing anger, around seeing other people express anger. And so it's almost like a new journey for me to own mine. But also, like, let. Let it have some breathing room.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, last one. One. I know. One, two or three.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Let's go with one.

[Rachel Martin]

What truth guides your life more than any other?

[Aparna Nancherla]

Wow, this one's a doozy to end on.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, just get right in there.

[Aparna Nancherla]

What is a truth that guides your life more than any other? I think, for me, because I have a brain that oftentimes I'm like, why was I given this brain? This doesn't always feel comfortable. Sometimes it seems, like, counterintuitive that I should even exist because it so often, like, is questioning why I do. And so I think I've. One truth that I really fall back on is, like, with life, it's like you are given only so much time, but then you break that time down into moments. And each moment can feel so big or, you know, so fateful. And to me, I think what I really fall back on are like, the little moments. Like, I just feel like sometimes we're always caught up in the, like, you know, the night I won a big award or like. Yeah, like the night I, you know, or the morning I like, tanked this interview or something. And I think for me it's like the much smaller moments of like. Oh, like one time I was walking in New York and this woman, this older woman was walking the other way and her shoe had come untied and she was like, would you mind tying my shoe for me? Like, because she couldn't bend over or something. And it was like the sweetest moment. And it just made me feel like so good that she even asked me. And then I. And you know, like, I don't know, it just felt. It feels like those are like what to me makes up a life. And so I think I'm always chasing more that than the big ones. Yeah, yeah, I so get that.

[Rachel Martin]

I, like, live for those moments, those little random moments with strangers. That's beautiful. That's such a beautiful moment.

[Aparna Nancherla]

I know. And that's the sort of thing we were talking about earlier of like, being so lost in your own head. And it's like the way other people can break you out of that and sometimes in such an unexpected way and like someone you don't even know. Like, that's so, so beautiful to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, I love that. Thank you. So we are at the end and we end the show the same way every time with a trip in our memory time machine. You go back to one moment from your past. It's not a moment you want to change anything about. It's just a moment you would like to linger in a little longer. Oh, which moment do you choose?

[Aparna Nancherla]

That's funny because we were just talking about moments. I guess one moment I wouldn't mind going back to. And this feels a little cliched. It feels. I don't know why, but I.

[Rachel Martin]

You're second guessing yourself, Aparna.

[Aparna Nancherla]

I know I should stand firmly in my truth. My most recent partner, we're now separated. But one thing we used to do as a sort of ritual was that every. I think for our anniversary every year we would go to like a botanical garden and do mushrooms and just kind of walk around and enjoy nature. We both love nature stuff. And I remember one time we landed in front of sort of a secret little waterfall that we discovered at the end of a path. And I just remember I was like standing in front of it and I just felt like such enormous peace and just like I could just stand there forever and would be fine if that was kind of it for me. And I think I even like kind of raised my hands like I was like doing a vertical bow or something to this waterfall. And I think I don't know that moment. To me I'm always like, gosh, I just wanna, just wanna even get close to that again. I think peace is, peace is something that I'm like, that feels more something that I want over happiness. Like just the feeling that it's like, okay, whatever is happening, it's okay.

[Rachel Martin]

Comedian Aparna Nancherla. You can see her in the new film anxiety club, out August 15th on the new indie film streaming platform Jolt. Aparna, thank you so much.

[Aparna Nancherla]

Thank you for having me.

[Rachel Martin]

If you like that conversation, go back and check out my episode with actor and filmmaker Jesse Eisenberg. Like Aparna, he is someone who, who has learned to channel his existential anxiety into making great art. His bit about using ChatGPT while he was ordering a bagel captures his entire personality in this amazing way. Definitely. Check it out. This episode was produced by Summer Tomad and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Patrick Murray. Wild Card's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni and our theme music is by Ramtin Arablouei. You can reach out to us at wildcat card npr.org and we are going to shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. Talk to you then.

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