Wild Card with Rachel Martin: Barry Jenkins Chooses to Believe in Chaos
Release Date: December 19, 2024

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Wild Card hosted by Rachel Martin, acclaimed film director Barry Jenkins delves deep into his personal and professional life, exploring themes of chaos, creativity, and the human experience. Recognized as one of the top podcasts of 2024 by The New York Times, Wild Card breaks away from traditional interview formats, encouraging guests to answer thought-provoking questions drawn from a unique deck of cards. This conversation promises an intimate look into Jenkins' mind, offering listeners profound insights into his approach to filmmaking and life.

Early Life and Foundations

Barry Jenkins opens up about his childhood in Miami, painting a vivid picture of his early experiences. He recounts finding solace in climbing trees to escape the chaos of growing up in a dilapidated housing project:

"I would climb up in the window to get onto the Roof. And then I would jump onto the tree and I would squirrel up into the very top of this tree... I would just go up into this tree and I would just sort of just listen to the sounds of the day."
[04:08] Barry Jenkins

These moments of solitude provided him with a sanctuary to process the complexities of his environment, laying the groundwork for his later work that often explores themes of identity and resilience.

Navigating Chaos in Filmmaking

Jenkins discusses his belief that the universe is inherently chaotic, a perspective that influences his storytelling:

"I think [the universe is] all chaos. I have to believe that... the last five years on this planet... have been beyond chaotic."
[00:26] Barry Jenkins

This belief drives him to create films that seek to find order within chaos, reflecting the multifaceted nature of human emotions and societal issues. Rachel Martin highlights how Jenkins' films, such as Moonlight and The Underground Railroad, transcend cultural and societal boundaries by presenting authentic and deeply human stories.

The Wild Card Game

The episode's interactive format involves Jenkins selecting and answering personal questions from Rachel Martin's deck of cards. The first question delves into his childhood coping mechanisms:

"I climbed trees to go feel safe and to get perspective... solitude can be very fortifying as well and to sort of recenter yourself before you re-enter the rigors, the demands of everyday life."
[06:14] Barry Jenkins

This reflection underscores Jenkins' ability to find peace amidst turmoil, a recurring theme in his cinematic work.

Moments of Connection

When asked about a moment when a stranger made him feel loved, Jenkins shares a poignant memory from his time at a film festival in Argentina:

"The woman said, she's a very old woman and so she doesn't have time to waste. And she heard you say that it was a very cheap film. She said it was not a cheap film. It was inexpensive... thank you for bringing this film to Marel Plata."
[09:59] Barry Jenkins

This encounter not only reaffirmed the value of his work but also highlighted the profound impact that genuine human connections can have, even with strangers.

Appreciating Beauty in Everyday Moments

In a discussion about early memories of appreciating beauty, Jenkins recounts a vivid moment from his youth:

"I have a streaking of color and light and movement. And just for a moment, I almost forgot that I was running a race. I just wanted to take this moment and just extend it for as long as possible."
[11:09] Barry Jenkins

This ability to find beauty in fleeting moments translates seamlessly into his filmmaking, where he crafts visually stunning scenes that linger in the audience's memory.

The Transition to Mufasa: The Lion King

Rachel Martin addresses Jenkins' unexpected involvement in Disney's The Lion King project, prompting him to discuss his motivations and aspirations:

"It was about using a completely new set of tools to tell a story, to create images... Mufasa is a very, very interesting character and so is Taka."
[19:01] Barry Jenkins

Jenkins explains his desire to depart from his previous work and embrace new challenges, aiming to infuse the beloved story with fresh perspectives and deeper emotional layers.

Friendship and Collaboration

Reflecting on personal growth, Jenkins emphasizes the evolving importance of friendship in his life:

"I took the meaning, the power of friendship for granted... Adela Romanski called me up and said, 'I love you. So let's figure out how to do this together.' This opened the portal for everything that has come into my life."
[22:02] Barry Jenkins

This renewed appreciation for collaborative relationships has been instrumental in his decision to undertake projects like Mufasa: The Lion King, underscoring the role of trusted partnerships in creative endeavors.

Striving for Validation and Overcoming Self-Doubt

Jenkins candidly discusses his ongoing struggle with self-worth and the pressure to prove himself:

"There's always this version of me that feels like I'm not enough... I constantly have to prove to reaffirm my ability, my value, my merits."
[24:18] Barry Jenkins

This internal conflict drives him to strive for excellence in his work, ensuring that his films authentically represent his vision and resonate with audiences on a profound level.

Emotional Expression and Vulnerability

When asked about his "shortcut to a good cry," Jenkins shares an emotional story about connecting with the creator of The Backyardigans:

"I feel like I'm getting this feeling of being mothered through this woman's work. And I don't know, something about that just made me very emotional, and I did cry."
[26:55] Barry Jenkins

This vulnerability highlights Jenkins' deep emotional connection to his work and his belief in the transformative power of storytelling.

Beliefs About Order and Chaos

Returning to the episode's central theme, Jenkins elaborates on his belief in a chaotic universe and the human endeavor to create order:

"Our role in it, which is, I think, the beauty and the agony of life is to make sense of it and to try to create order, but to do it ethically, to do it in a way that's spiritually balanced."
[32:50] Barry Jenkins

He contrasts the constructed nature of societal systems with the inherent chaos of the universe, using his own heritage and history as a descendant of African slaves to illustrate the intersection of chaos and creation.

Legacy and the Afterlife

Exploring philosophical questions, Jenkins contemplates the possibility of consciousness persisting after death:

"The children had been told that they weren't worth shit... I feel like I'll always be working in the opposite direction to disprove it, you know, that I'm not worth shitting."
[25:44] Barry Jenkins

He reflects on how his work, particularly Moonlight and its score, may outlive him, suggesting a form of legacy that continues to influence and inspire future generations.

Final Reflections and Moments to Cherish

In the episode's concluding segment, Jenkins chooses to revisit the chaotic yet memorable night when Moonlight won Best Picture at the Oscars:

"I just don't have a memory of that moment, that night, that event. It's all just... It kind of got away from me. It eclipsed my experience in a certain way."
[41:33] Barry Jenkins

He expresses a desire to have fully experienced that triumphant moment, highlighting the tension between external success and internal experience.

Conclusion

Barry Jenkins' appearance on Wild Card offers an intimate glimpse into the mind of a visionary filmmaker grappling with personal demons, creative aspirations, and the relentless pursuit of meaning amidst chaos. Through heartfelt anecdotes and profound reflections, Jenkins invites listeners to contemplate their own journeys of self-discovery and the role of art in shaping our understanding of the world. As he embarks on the ambitious project of Mufasa: The Lion King, Jenkins embodies the delicate balance between chaos and order, demonstrating that even in the most tumultuous times, there is room for creativity, connection, and resilience.

Notable Quotes

1. "I think it's all chaos. I have to believe that... the last five years on this planet... have been beyond chaotic."
   — Barry Jenkins [00:26]

2. "I climb trees to go feel safe and to get perspective... solitude can be very fortifying as well."
   — Barry Jenkins [06:14]

3. "Being present is the one truth that guides my life."
   — Barry Jenkins [37:55]

4. "Our role in it, which is, I think, the beauty and the agony of life is to make sense of it and to try to create order, but to do it ethically, to do it in a way that's spiritually balanced."
   — Barry Jenkins [32:50]

5. "I cry over the most random things... I was getting in, like, Barry Jenkins mode."
   — Barry Jenkins [27:13]

Final Thoughts

This episode of Wild Card not only showcases Barry Jenkins' remarkable journey as a filmmaker but also his introspective nature and commitment to authenticity. Listeners are encouraged to explore more episodes, including those featuring Lena Waithe and Bowen Yang, for additional inspiring conversations that blend humor, honesty, and profound insights.

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