Bob Odenkirk

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin
Episode: Bob Odenkirk (Apr 16, 2026)

---

Overview

In this episode, Rachel Martin sits down with Bob Odenkirk, renowned comedian, actor, and now reluctant action star, for a candid, insightful conversation. Using Wild Card’s signature deck of question cards, they dive into topics that range from childhood, family, and insecurities to risk-taking, fatherhood, and mortality. Odenkirk reflects on his unconventional career arc, vulnerability, and authenticity while sharing stories both funny and moving. They also touch on his new action movie, "Normal," and how he navigates the expectations of others and himself.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Childhood, Family, and Independence

• Boy Scouts as independence

  • Odenkirk grew up in a big family (seven kids) with little parental oversight, describing the household as somewhat “Lord of the Flies.”
  • Quote: “There was too much going on… it was a pretty wild scenario, to be honest with you.” (03:11–03:29)
  • Found independence in the Boy Scouts during monthly camping trips, especially in Wisconsin.

• Parents’ Influence

  • Odenkirk’s mother was supportive and hardworking but often overwhelmed; she loved the company and antics of children.
  • Quote: “She would laugh so hard at these two boys punching each other that it would kill the spirit of the fight.” (04:25)
  • While their father was mostly absent due to alcoholism, his eventual departure when Odenkirk was 14 was “the greatest day of my life, truly.”
  • Quote: “It was such a deep, deep feeling of joy. Well, because when he was around, it was this tension and uncertainty … So it was just like, great, he’s gone. Because we’re running this place anyway.” (06:42–07:17)

2. Mentorship, Role Models & Advice

• Odenkirk never really had a mentor, always searching for someone older to model behavior, “even at 63.”
• Vince Gilligan serves as a model in professionalism: “He does so with kindness, and he’s gentle about it. He’s not a jerk ever.” (09:14)
• He prefers to learn from modeling rather than being told what to do.
• Skeptical of idolizing anyone: “Everybody’s flawed and even kind of dumb in some ways… that goes for every single person who ever was human.” (11:44)

3. Artistry, Risk, and Vulnerability

• Action Hero Turn:
  • Discusses the leap from comedy to action, countering expectations with roles in "Nobody" and now "Normal."
  • Odenkirk can’t and won’t play the “Superman” action hero:
    • Quote: “I could not play the other kind of action hero, which … is the Superman who is, you know, unstoppable… I can’t pretend to bring that guy to the screen. And it’s okay.” (17:57)
• He relishes putting himself “in over his head,” especially with new physical or dramatic roles:
  • “Other people have a stronger sense of protecting their dignity than I do.” (19:15)

4. Handling Judgement, Identity & Humor

• Odenkirk is less fearful of looking foolish than most—possibly a legacy of his comedy roots.
• “Looking dumb is often the pursuit [in comedy]... It’s very clever of you.” (22:05)
• His identity is mostly rooted in being “a dad,” more than any professional label.
  • Quote: “For most of the last 30 years, that was what I was wanting to be, trying to be, and being.” (21:39)

5. Fear, Change & Mortality

• He tends to take risks first and let fear catch up later:
  • Quote: "I say, yes, I'll do something that I should be afraid of... Fear enters into it late—now I'm in trouble, now I'm already there.” (24:28)
• His heart attack during filming did not traumatize him so much as fill him with a lingering “joy,” a renewed appreciation of life’s beauty:
  • Quote: “I have to try to live this way… this feeling of the world being pretty magical and beautiful and astounding, a marvel… This is what life is.” (28:52–29:19)
• Confronted mortality and the importance of not postponing the “bucket list”—whether that’s adventure or simply living with intention.

6. On Familiarity vs. Novelty

• Gets irrationally defensive when his wife teases him about ordering the same food at restaurants or returning to the same travel spots:
  • Quote: “I think there’s a joy to be found in familiarity, that you can make something out of that, too.” (23:58)

7. Professional Self-Acceptance

• Has come to peace with being more suited to drama than comedy, even if his first love was comedy:
  • Quote: “I am more effective in drama... There’s a level of my own apparent earnestness that kind of hurts my ability to be as funny as some of the people I’ve been around and worked with.” (34:30)
• Expresses no regret or sadness about it—just acceptance.

8. Spirituality & Uncertainty

• Raised staunchly Catholic, but faith has become more abstract—struggles with the idea of a personal God as described by others.
• Finds beauty in the interconnectedness of life, rather than traditional notions of divinity.
  • Quote: “Life, all of life, is connected... It’s got a beautiful side to it that we have to find and make the most of and help each other to find.” (36:20)

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• On his father leaving:
  • “That was the greatest day of my life, truly.” (06:19)
• On his identity:
  • “Just a guy doing shit... My identity is wrapped up in being a dad.” (21:28)
• On trying new things:
  • “I say, yes, I'll do something that I should be afraid of... and then fear kind of creeps in long after I've said I'll do it.” (24:28)
• On mortality after his heart attack:
  • “This is the best, and this is how you should feel. This is what life is.” (28:50)
• On his relationship to comedy vs. drama:
  • “I am more effective in drama... as much as I love [comedy], as much as I want to do it, and as much as I've done it and done fine, it's just, you know, God said, no no no, stop with that, go over here.” (34:30-35:52)
• On faith:
  • “I’ve just struggled with the idea of God, especially as discussed by most human beings, which always sounds like you’re describing a person.” (36:06)

---

Notable Segments & Timestamps

• [02:01] — Odenkirk on independence and family dynamics as a child.
• [04:23] — Lessons from his parents and defusing sibling fights through humor.
• [06:14] — The impact of his father’s absence and eventual departure.
• [08:01] — Mentors, advice, and his admiration for Vince Gilligan’s approach.
• [13:37] — Discussion of "Normal," action movies and mythic evil.
• [19:15] — Odenkirk’s openness to risk and comfort with vulnerability.
• [24:28] — How fear enters his life late, shaping his willingness to take risks.
• [27:07] — Heart attack experience, “joy” post-trauma, and mortality.
• [32:09] — Where he feels most free (after finishing meaningful work).
• [33:33] — Coming to peace with his comedic vs. dramatic strengths.
• [36:06] — His changing feelings about God and faith.
• [38:08] — Memory time machine: the day his father left.

---

Tone and Flow

• Conversational, unfiltered, and self-deprecating, with moments of sharp insight and emotional candor.
• Rachel Martin’s thoughtful follow-ups and Odenkirk’s willingness to reflect deeply make for a rich exchange that oscillates between humor and seriousness—mirroring the shifting career Odenkirk himself embodies.

---

Final Thought

Meeting the moments—painful, joyful, fearful, or triumphant—Bob Odenkirk shares one through-line: embracing what happens, doing the work, and searching for beauty or meaning without needing to pretend it’s simple or resolved. This episode is a portrait of an artist, and a dad, who’s still figuring it out—and comfortable letting us see the mess.

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

This message comes from the International Rescue Committee in Gaza, Sudan and crisis zones around the world. The IRC is working to deliver emergency aid to those who need it most. Donate today by visiting rescue.org rebuild just

[Rachel Martin]

a heads up, this episode does have some strong language. When have you been in over your head?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Oh, many times. Many, many times. I don't want to look like an ass. I don't want to do something that I can't do in front of everybo and then look terrible. But I don't want to do that less than most people.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin and this is Wild Card, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life. Questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one back on me. My guest this week is Bob Odenkirk.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Bottom line, if I do it and it's as embarrassing as I think it could be, who cares? Who cares? I was never supposed to be an action hero. I'm a comedy writer. I'll go write more comedy.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm pretty sure Bob Odenkirk is someone who enjoys breaking other people's expectations. At his core, he's a sketch comedy guy. Later came a pivot to dramatic acting with Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. And now Bob Odenkirk is a bonafide action hero. And I'm here for all of it. His latest contribution to the action genre is a movie called Normal. And I'm so happy to welcome Bob Odenkirk to Wildcard. Hi, Bob.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Hi, Rachel. How are you?

[Rachel Martin]

I'm so well. I'm very pleased that you wanted to do this. Are you ready to go?

[Bob Odenkirk]

I'm ready to go. Throw the cards at me.

[Rachel Martin]

Round one is memories. Okay, here we go.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Hit two, two. Go right for the middle two.

[Rachel Martin]

Here we go. We're off to the races. Okay. Where did you get to feel independent as a kid?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Boy Scouts. Boy Scouts. Yeah. Well, I grew up in a family of seven. I was the second oldest and I love my siblings, all of them very much. And we're still great friends and we were a pack who supported each other. My dad was an alcoholic and my mom was a wonderful, hard working, but overworked woman who we all thought the most of. And yet she was stretched way, way, way, way too thin. That was her choice. She knew she was having kids when she had them, but. So we were great friends. But to be independent was Boy Scouts. We went on a monthly camping trip and mostly to Wisconsin, which is why I have Such a affection for Wisconsin and all the wonderful camping that you can do there.

[Rachel Martin]

Did you look around and you just felt not surrounded by six other siblings and that gave you permission to be more of who you were?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, I mean, look, we didn't really have parents around when I was at home because there was too much going on, but it was just a. Yeah, I mean, it was a pretty wild scenario, to be honest with you.

[Rachel Martin]

You're telling me it was like a little Lord of the Flies kind of.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, it was more Lord of the Flies. And it could get real Lord of the Flies. Like it could get crazy. Right, right, right. Yeah. It's a bunch of guys who are not fully developed in any way with fire at their disposal. Encouraged. Encouraged to have fire around them and knives and guns sometimes.

[Rachel Martin]

Right, right.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I mean, come on, how is that not a worse. How is that not a litany of disasters?

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. And freedom.

[Bob Odenkirk]

But it was so great. I loved it. Okay, one. Go for one.

[Rachel Martin]

One. What's something your parents taught you to love?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, I mean, I'd say. I'm going to say childhood. My mom did not have the obviously bandwidth to really hang out with any of us, but she clearly loved kids. Like, she was so entertained by kids. In fact, my brother Steve and I, he's one year older than me, we got into fights. Not often, but a couple times. And whenever we would get into fights, she would laugh so hard at these two boys punching each other that it would kill the spirit of the fight. It would end the fight.

[Rachel Martin]

You're entertaining, like you're beating each other

[Bob Odenkirk]

up and you're really mad. And here's your mom just laughing so hard right there, not telling you to stop laughing.

[Rachel Martin]

Plus, maybe she knew subconsciously that she was diffusing it in some way.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, she did. She defused it.

[Rachel Martin]

Whatever, guys.

[Bob Odenkirk]

But she was just entertained by kids. Not just when they fought, by everything about them, by the things they said and things that they. She just found it endlessly entertaining. And I feel the same way. I remember my Kids are now 25 and 27, but when they were little, I directed a couple feature films and I wrote a lot of TV pilots that didn't get made, basically called development hell. But I couldn't wait to get home. I would go to work at 10 and. And I would be off work at 2:30 or 3 so that I could go hang out and watch those kids be funny. And it was the most entertaining part of my life.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Forgive me for not knowing this. You said your dad was an Alcoholic. Did he leave or was he still around?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Just so. He wasn't around much at all, like, you couldn't find him how.

[Rachel Martin]

He.

[Bob Odenkirk]

He must have come home seven times. I know that because there were seven of us. But outside of those seven visits, he just. You could not find this guy. And then he left when I was 14, completely, which was the best thing in the world. That was the greatest day of my life, truly.

[Rachel Martin]

You didn't feel.

[Bob Odenkirk]

It was such a joy.

[Rachel Martin]

Wow.

[Bob Odenkirk]

It was such a deep, deep feeling of joy. Well, because when he was around, it was this tension and uncertainty, and it wasn't violence. He wasn't violent. He was just unhelpful and out of it and disconnected and erratically there or not there. And so it was just like, great, he's gone. Because we're running this place anyway. Me and my brother Steve, the older boys, are running the show. Everyone's trying to help as much as they can. My mom's, you know, humping it, and together we were a great team and with a great bit of luck. My grandfather had made a fair amount of money by working hard, and he helped us out. So we were able to. We had a pretty copacetic life without my father in the picture.

[Rachel Martin]

Last one in this round. One, Two or three.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Okay, go with three, because that's the one we haven't used yet.

[Rachel Martin]

Sure. If I'm counting, what's a piece of advice you were smart to ignore?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Well, I pretty much ignore most advice. I don't know. I never had a mentor that was. I had a lot of people I looked up to. When you don't have a dad and any guy knows this, you look for dads everywhere. And even at the age of 63, I still go, I want to be more like him. I'm still looking for an older guy and sometimes a slightly younger guy who are like, God, he's got it together. And that's the way to be. That's the way to. That's the way to handle whatever life. And I'm constantly looking for that because of. I think because of no father. I'm going to point to somebody named Vince Gilligan, who created Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul and now has the show Pluribus. The way Vince moves through the world with real, calm focus, and you could almost call it perfectionism, but it's a high level of professionalism. And he does so with kindness, and he's gentle about it. He's not a jerk ever. And so, like. Well, this is way far from your question.

[Rachel Martin]

I Don't care. This is.

[Bob Odenkirk]

It's. It's. He's. He's the. In. In some ways, the opposite of me. I'm impetuous and almost more excited by a risk than excited by the idea of doing something. Well, like, in other words, he'd rather I do something as excellently as it could be done. And if you said to me, would you rather take five years to do this thing really well or just do it in one year, this crazy thing that you'll probably fail at? I'd be like, well, let's just do it in one year. I'll probably fail at it. You're right. I'll probably fail at it. Let's just do it. Yeah, but you'll do it better if you take five years. I know, I know, but give or take, you know, let's just burn it down. But as far as advice goes, I really think I never had that. I never had anyone tell me anything that I'd consider big advice.

[Rachel Martin]

Well, it sounds like you personally respond better to people who are modeling things instead of telling you things.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yes, yes, yes. And I've never probably too. There's nobody I've ever idolized on the level that they would be my mentor. Like, as soon as I would get near anything like that, I'd back up from it, because I don't think there's anyone. And you can go through history and you can name any human being ever that I think is. Abraham Lincoln would be the only person I would think. I think

[Rachel Martin]

I'd take advice from on

[Bob Odenkirk]

a level that is like, oh, no, that guy's really another level of human.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

But other than that, I just think everybody's flawed and even kind of dumb in some ways. And again, that goes for every single person who ever was human.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

This message comes from the International Rescue Committee. Right now, in places like Gaza, Sudan, and Ukraine, conflict and disaster have forced millions of families into temporary shelters without basic supplies and in urgent need of aid. With your help, the International Rescue Committee is on the ground in more than 40 countries, delivering food, clean water, shelter, and medical care where it's needed most. Donate today by visiting rescue.org rebuild.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

This message comes from Jerry. Many people are overpaying on car insurance. Why? Switching providers can be a pain. Jeri helps make the process painless. Jerry is the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over $1,300 a year before you Renew your car insurance policy. Download the Jerry app or head to Jerry AI npr. Support for NPR and the following message come from Spectrum Business with Connectivity Solutions to help your business stay online and on track. Reliable connections, responsive support and tailored solutions. Spectrum.com business restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, so before we start round two, we're going to talk about your movie, your new movie, Normal. Congratulations.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Thanks.

[Rachel Martin]

You play a sheriff who works on temp contracts, roams around from town to town filling in when they need a sheriff for a little bit. He gets a gig in this town called Normal, which, I mean, you're just asking for it if you name your town Normal. What does he think he's walking into?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Quiet town. Not much going on. He's gonna do his job and leave. Nothing is gonna happen. He's got time to daydream and contemplate the mistakes of his life and his lonely, existentially bereft status state. And that's what he thinks he's walking into. And he's actually trying to preserve that. He's actually actively not thinking about the various clues and things that are around him that tell him something is amiss in this town.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, they're all my favorite elements of a good movie. You got a bank heist, you got some Yakuza, some Japanese mafia. You got yourself some Henry Winkler.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, we got Henry Winkler. That's what we got. Derek Kolstad wrote this movie. He wrote John Wick. He wrote Nobody. And he writes action films. You know, in comedy, I made fun of the tropes of action films. I ridiculed those and I laughed at them. But action films are, you know, on some level, they're mythic. They're not. They're not real at all. But what they're doing for the audience and for the story is they're giving the hero something to fight against that is worthy of that much rage and violence. So you need to create a purely evil thing or have that. Whether it's, you know, an evil mob boss or whatever it is, it's got to be something that's worthy because we live in a world that we know is all gray area. And we know as we go through life we can get rageful and angry, but probably that person that we're rageful and angry at does not deserve our rage or our anger. They probably are human like us. And if the longer you live, the more you know that, that's true. And they have weaknesses and they have challenges and they've been hurt and they did something to us that they may not even be aware of how much it hurt us. And so there's no place for us to put our anger that deserves our anger. But in a movie, you can invent a bad guy or you can borrow one from the world that is conceived or perceived as a, you know, conceptually pure evil creation. And then it's worthy of this violence that you get to act out in a movie. So I like that. My movies try to start in the real world with the most real tensions around the character. In the case of Nobody, he and his wife are. You know, there's tension there, which can happen when you've got kids and all your life is just a scheduling and you both work and you can get, you know, distant and tense. And then he gets to take all of his frustrations of life and then is delivered unto him by Derek Kolstad, this pure evil, in that case, Russian mobster who is the worst guy ever.

[Rachel Martin]

And he gets angry.

[Bob Odenkirk]

As a woman, he deserves my rage.

[Rachel Martin]

They're very different characters. The Nobody films is a completely different hero and character than Ulysses in Normal. But there is this through line in which you make these people whole. They are vulnerable men. They are wounded men. And they can also.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I could not play the other kind of action hero, which is the kind you're more used to seeing, which is the Superman. The Superman who is, you know, unstoppable and absolutely, unquestionably the best fighter on screen. I can't play that guy. I can't pretend to bring that guy to the screen. And it's okay. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, we're into round two. These are insights, Bob. One, two or three?

[Bob Odenkirk]

One.

[Rachel Martin]

When have you been in over your head?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Oh, many times. Many, many times.

[Rachel Martin]

Is there a specific instance?

[Bob Odenkirk]

I guess the question you're asking is, when have I been in over my head and not pulled myself up out of the hole? Because I was in over my head on Better Call Saul, and I was in over my head on Nobody. And I was in over my head on Nobody, too. And I was, you know. I mean.

[Rachel Martin]

No, I don't think it's a question about failure. I think those are interesting, too, because if that's your modus operandi that you're always.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah. Putting myself in a place over my head.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

And that's intentional.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And it's uncommon for me to do that. You know, it's not so much intentional as, look, I don't want to look like an ass. I don't want to do something that I can't do. In front of everybody and then look terrible. But. I don't want to do that less than most people. In other words, other people have a. Have a stronger sense of protecting their dignity than I do. There's. Look, I trained for two years to do nobody. I really wanted to do stunt fighting. Yeah, yeah. And I trained in a stunt gym, and in the stunt gym, there are other stunt teams working. So in other words, I'm in a corner with, at the time, my trainer who still trains me, Daniel Bernhardt, one of the great stunt actors in the world. And he's trained me for years now, but for a year and a half, I couldn't do credible screen fighting for a year and a half. That's a long time to be in a room with the professionals. Right over there being professional.

[Rachel Martin]

But. So you're over your head. You're training for a year and a half. I guess you don't have doubts because you're just like, these guys have made me.

[Bob Odenkirk]

No, I do have doubts.

[Rachel Martin]

You do have doubts.

[Bob Odenkirk]

But also just the bottom line, if I do it, and it's as embarrassing as I think it could be, who cares? Who cares? I was never supposed to be an action hero. I'm a comedy writer. I'll go write more comedy.

[Rachel Martin]

Right, Right.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I'll go do this thing.

[Rachel Martin]

Your identity is not wrapped up in being a successful action hero.

[Bob Odenkirk]

But by the way, my identity, and this is arguable, but my identity is not wrapped up in me being a comedy guy worthy or respected. Like. Like, why is that even part of my identity? How is that, you know, what's your

[Rachel Martin]

identity wrapped up in?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Just a guy doing shit.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, well, you never get that guy

[Bob Odenkirk]

who does stuff and does his best. Yeah. And my identity is wrapped up in being a dad.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I mean, you know, that's how I. That's number one. Now my kids are older, and to some great extent, they don't want a dad. I mean, really, they're great. But for most of my life, for most of the last 30 years, that was what I was wanting to be. Trying to be and being. Yeah, so that was. That's something I don't want to be embarrassed at.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

But acting more. I mean, look, you know, you don't want to be embarrassed. You don't want to pursue that. You want to do a great job. But I'm more willing to risk looking dumb than most people. And don't forget, I started in comedy, where looking dumb is kind of awesome. Looking dumb is often the pursuit. You know, it's very Clever of you.

[Rachel Martin]

There's that early in your career. I mean, really.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

This is bulwark against judgment.

[Bob Odenkirk]

It can be. I think it can help you.

[Rachel Martin]

That was interesting. Next one. One. Two or three?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Three.

[Rachel Martin]

What makes you irrationally defensive?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Irrationally defensive? Oh, my wife critiques me for eating the same thing at restaurants that I had the last time I was there.

[Rachel Martin]

Fascinating.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Because she has this thing about you gotta order a different thing every time. And I'm like, she does that everywhere. Like, by the way, I love going to Ireland and hiking, and I always go back to the same town. She's like, what? I'm not going. I've already been there. I'm like, you were there once for two days, so you know it like the back of your hand. There's. Isn't it great to know a place? Isn't it great to go to a restaurant and. And get the thing that you know you're gonna love? What's wrong with that? And she's.

[Rachel Martin]

She wants to. She's just sucking the marrow out of life. She just wants.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah. I mean, is there. But they're sucking the marrow out of life is going back and enjoying this thing that you love that's also sucking the marrow out of life. Ordering marrow, bone marrow.

[Rachel Martin]

If that's what you love, then order it every time.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I'm just saying I think there's a joy to be found in familiarity, that you can make something out of that, too.

[Rachel Martin]

I get you. Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

You know, and I get defensive about that, as you can see.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Watch out.

[Rachel Martin]

I was just two. Now I'm afraid. Okay, two, two, two. Okay. How big a role does fear play in your life?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Well, it should play a bigger role. We talked about risk earlier. I think I have. I don't know what my. How this. I wonder if a psychologist would have, like, a term for what I am and how fear plays on me, which is I say, yes, I'll do something that I should be afraid of. And then I go to it. I get to work on it. And then fear kind of creeps in long after I've said, I'll do it. I'll jump on. I'll go do that thing. I'll go out here, I'll do whatever that crazy thing is. Fear enters into it. Late now I'm in trouble now. I'm already there. Now I'm doing it. And fear lingers and kind of seeps in everywhere and stresses me out. And I don't want to look at it or acknowledge it, but it's there. Me up. So it's a weird thing. I gotta. I still haven't figured that one out. I think in general, I got the good end of the deal on all that because it means I've tried things, you know, Broadway. Doing Glengarry Glen Ross on Broadway is a play I knew I wanted to do. I was thrilled to be invited to do it.

[Rachel Martin]

Scary, though, I imagine.

[Bob Odenkirk]

But the fear of it, the scary part didn't hit me until I'm doing it and I'm on Broadway and it's. You know. And it sort of lingered for weeks and weeks. And in the end, I did it. I had a great time. I got nominated for a Tony. I feel confident now after, you know, four months doing that on stage. And I'm excited to do more Broadway at some point if I get the opportunity or just more theater.

[Rachel Martin]

May I ask you about your heart attack? Because it seems like that would be very scary, and it would have. You had a heart attack when you were on the set of Better Call Saul. And it seemed like it would provoke changes in one's life that you could either be very fearful and, like, are you gonna be around as long as you wanted to be? Or you could just completely look at it in a different way and just say, I only have so many days in this world, and so I'm just gonna live every second and take all the risks.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I didn't have the experience that a lot of people have where they see their life flash before their eyes or they have some kind of slideshow of their regrets or something, or I didn't meet anyone who said, do you want to go back? Or I didn't look back and see myself on the floor. I basically woke up. I mean, I did wake up the next day after getting two stents, but I don't remember any of that recuperative week in the hospital or I don't remember the incident itself. I can only picture it by having talked to Rhea Seehorn and Patrick Fabian, who were right there when it happened or the various people who gathered around from the cast and crew who were very affected, very traumatized, some of them, by witnessing it. There was very little trauma for me, emotional trauma. What there was, was there was this lingering. Joy that I felt upon sort of resuming consciousness a week later. That stuck with me for a couple of weeks, but that I also could feel was going away and would go away, but that I remember thinking, I have to remember this. I have to try to. I have to try to live this way. I have to try to see the world this way, but this feeling of the world being pretty magical and beautiful

[Rachel Martin]

and

[Bob Odenkirk]

astounding, a marvel. A marvel to look at. And I remember thinking, this is the best, and this is how you should feel. This is what life is. This is life. It's weird. It's like being. It's like having that revelation people talk about when they do various psychedelic drugs, but not being on drugs and not being.

[Rachel Martin]

Transcendence.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Transcendence, yes. And not being. Not with your eyes closed. You're like, I was living. I was doing things. I was living my life. But feeling that the whole time.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

The other thing, of course, is the simple truth of you're going to die. And it's very hard to. Sometimes it's hard for us. I mean, we look out these eyes and we don't see ourselves getting older. And we don't, in our mind, we're young. We're just this energy that just is moving at the same pace with the same, you know, resources as ever. And it's just not true. And having that experience is like getting slapped hard on the side of the head going, no, no, no. Pay attention. And this ends. And there's things that you promise yourself. Bucket list, you could call it. And they could be bucket list things like, I'm going to climb Machu Picchu. Or they could be, I'm going to live slower and more consciously. And you've got to get around to those things. And you cannot put them off. You cannot put them off. You know, you can't.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] Switch taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

This message comes from BetterHelp. As a dad, BetterHelp President Fernando Madera relates to needing flexibility when it comes to scheduling therapy.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I have kids under 18, so, like, time is very limited. That's why at BetterHelp, our therapists try to have sessions, sometimes at night, depending on the therapist, or during the weekend. So I think that's what we need to tell the parents. You're not alone. We can help you out.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

If a flexible schedule would help you, visit betterhelp.com NPR for 10% off your first month of online therapy.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

This message comes from Warby Parker. Prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Glasses designed in house from premium materials starting at just $95, including prescription lenses. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.

[Rachel Martin]

It's the last round. One, two, three.

[Bob Odenkirk]

You choose.

[Rachel Martin]

Where do you feel most free? Number one.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Where do I feel most free? After working hard on any project, it's tied to a sense of accomplishment, and that's tied to the childhood I had and my mother and the degree to which, you know, achievement or not achievement but work was the value of life. What. What can I contribute? What can I get done? Was how she lived her life. You know, utilitarian making of, you know, getting stuff done. So when I finished a project, whatever that is, and that feeling of accomplishment leads to a feeling of freedom that lasts for a short while, maybe even a little bit longer. But I need to have unburdened myself and achieved something to feel relaxed and free in the world and worthy of enjoying that freedom. One, two, or three? Two.

[Rachel Martin]

What's something you've come to peace with?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Not much. I love comedy. Comedy inspired me to be in show business, and I wrote it and thought about it and worked on it, and I always knew that I just loved it and that it made me happy, but that there were so many people, people close to me who were a great deal funnier and more fun to watch than myself. And whether that was Chris Farley or David Cross, the list is long. It didn't bother me. It didn't make me mad. But I've come to peace with the fact that my energy and my countenance probably belong in drama better. Like, they're more effective there, probably my earnestness, which. There's something about comedy where it's not that you should be. It's not that earnestness helps there, too. But there's a level of my own apparent earnestness that kind of hurts my ability to be as funny as some of the people I've been around and worked with. And that dings me a little in comedy. So I just. That's all. I've come to peace with the fact that however much I may enjoy doing comedy, I am more effective in drama.

[Rachel Martin]

Does that make you sad at all, or it's just the way it is?

[Bob Odenkirk]

No, no, no, no, no. There's. I never wanted to be the funniest guy. I just wanted to be in comedy. But I think that awareness of, like, as much as I love it, as much as I want to do it, and as much as I've done it and done fine, it's just, you know, God said, no, no, no, no, stop with that. Go over here. Because this is where if you want to perform, and I do like to perform, you should be over in this other. On this other stage,

[Rachel Martin]

we have one last question. Bob Odenkirk. One, two or three, Number one, how have your feelings about God changed over time?

[Bob Odenkirk]

You know, I don't want to bum anybody out about religion, but I was raised very, you know, staunchly Catholic. My mom was, you know, deep, deep believer. And I've just struggled with the idea of God, especially as discussed by most human beings, which always sounds like you're describing a person. And so then, yeah, it hasn't changed much. I think that my idea of any of that stuff is that life, all of life is connected and. It's, you know, it's got a beautiful side to it that we have to find and make the most of and help each other to find. And that's not nothing more than that.

[Rachel Martin]

Are you okay that it seems unresolved to you, that there is, like, an unknowableness?

[Bob Odenkirk]

I'm sure on my deathbed I'll be calling for the priest to give me last rites, but, yeah, otherwise I am. Yeah,

[Rachel Martin]

we end the show the same way every time. Okay, okay. With a trip in our memory time machine. In the memory time machine, you revisit one moment from your past. It's not a moment you want to change anything about. It's just a moment you'd like to linger in a little longer. What moment do you choose?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Sitting on my friend's the hood of my friend's car With a beer in my hand. 14 years old and I heard the news that day that my dad left was gone.

[Rachel Martin]

How'd you hear?

[Bob Odenkirk]

My mom told me I was as happy as I had ever been.

[Rachel Martin]

Bob Odenkirk. You can see him in the new movie Normal. It is out April 16th. Bob, thank you so much.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Thank you.

[Rachel Martin]

If you liked this episode, go back and check out my conversation with Seth Meyers. He was similarly reflective about how his show business career didn't unfold quite as he expected and what he learned about leaning into his best skills. This episode was produced by Alicia Zhang and Lee Hale. It was edited by Dave Blanchard and mastered by Jimmy Keeley. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni and our theme music is by Ramtin Arablouei. You can reach out to [e-mail] org we're going to shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. Talk to you then.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

This message comes from 1-800-Flowers when Mother's Day means celebrating your mom, your wife, maybe even your daughter as a new mom. Trust 1-800-FLOWERS to help you celebrate every important woman in your life with Double blooms from 1-800-Flowers. Order one dozen roses and get another dozen for free. It's a simple way to give beautifully with colorful blooms that make Mother's Day meaningful for every mom you're celebrating. Order with confidence and get Double blooms at 1-800-flowers.com NPR this message comes from Rosetta Stone. If you have travel coming up, like a spring break or summer vacation, imagine arriving actually understanding the language. Rosetta Stone has been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years with millions of users and 25 languages to choose from. Ready to start learning a new language this spring? Visit rosettastone.com NPR today to explore Rosetta Stone and choose the language that's right for you.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

This message comes from Sony Pictures Classics with I Swear, a three time BAFTA winner starring Robert R. Amayo in the True Story of John Davidson. Navigating life with Tourette's in 1980s Britain while fighting for understanding, now playing only in theaters.