BONUS - Sandra Cisneros is in her 'magical mystery period'

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin: Bonus Episode featuring Sandra Cisneros

Introduction

In this special bonus episode of Wild Card with Rachel Martin, acclaimed writer and poet Sandra Cisneros joins host Rachel Martin to delve deep into life's profound questions through an intimate and unconventional interview format. Celebrating the 40th anniversary of her seminal work, The House on Mango Street, Cisneros brings her unique perspective to the conversation, enriching listeners with her experiences, insights, and reflections.

Round One: Influential Figures Beyond Parents

Timestamp: [02:20]

The first round of the Wild Card game poses the question: "Who was an adult besides your parents, who had an influence on you for good or for ill?"

Sandra Cisneros shares a heartfelt story from her sixth-grade experience, highlighting the transformative impact of an encouraging teacher.

"When you love your students, your students know it. And when you don't love them, they know it too." ([04:20])

Cisneros recounts how this teacher’s recognition of her artwork—not a common occurrence in her previous school—instilled in her a newfound confidence and a desire to excel academically. This pivotal moment not only improved her grades from D's and C's to A's and B's but also underscored the profound influence that genuine care and attention from educators can have on a child's development.

Round Two: Reluctant Realizations About Oneself

Timestamp: [07:32]

The second round challenges guests with: "What's something about yourself that you have reluctantly realized is true?"

Initially hesitant, Cisneros opens up about her contemplations on aging and mortality, describing this phase of her life as her "magical mystery period."

"There's a wonderful phrase in Spanish, 'de estas alpuras.' From these heights, you are at a height where you can review your life and you have gratitude for your mistakes." ([09:29])

She reflects on the importance of embracing failures as integral to personal growth, emphasizing that success stems not from accolades but from the resilience to overcome setbacks. This introspection leads her to appreciate the continuous process of self-transformation and the wisdom gained from life's challenges.

Round Three: Activities that Resemble Prayer

Timestamp: [10:51]

The final round presents the question: "Is there anything in your life that feels like praying?"

Cisneros eloquently equates her practice of writing poetry to prayer, describing it as a spiritual and healing ritual.

"Writing poetry is praying. If we all wrote poems every day, we would be better human beings." ([11:05])

She elaborates on how poetry serves as her medication, helping her navigate through depression without relying on pharmaceuticals. Cisneros advocates for poetry as a tool for emotional expression and self-understanding, encouraging others to engage in creative writing as a means of spiritual and mental well-being.

Memory Time Machine: A Mystical Journey

Timestamp: [17:56]

In the closing segment, Cisneros takes Rachel and listeners on a nostalgic journey to Akumal, a serene location in the Yucatan. She recounts a profound mystical experience she had as a child, where she felt an overwhelming sense of interconnectedness with the universe.

"I understood that we are all interconnected, like the Buddhists say we are. There's no me and you or I or they. It's all part of that." ([20:10])

This peak experience left a lasting impression on her, shaping her intuitive nature and her belief in the unity of all things. Cisneros shares how these moments of clarity inspire her writing and her understanding of human connection, especially in the context of global challenges like environmental issues and pandemics.

Conclusion

This bonus episode of Wild Card offers a deep and enriching conversation with Sandra Cisneros, exploring themes of influence, self-discovery, spirituality, and interconnectedness. Through candid storytelling and reflective insights, Cisneros provides listeners with a nuanced perspective on navigating life's complexities. For those who appreciate thoughtful dialogue and the intertwining of personal experiences with broader existential themes, this episode stands out as a must-listen addition to the Wild Card series.

Production Credits

• Produced by Taylor Hutchison
• Edited by Dave Blanchard
• Executive Producer: Beth Donovan
• Theme Music by Ramtin Arablouei

Connect with Wild Card

For more episodes and updates, reach out to [e-mail] and stay tuned for future installments every Thursday.

Transcript

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Dignity Memorial. When your celebration of life is prepaid today, your family is protected. Tomorrow, planning ahead is truly one of the best gifts you can give your family. For additional information, visit dignitymemorial.com hey, Wildcard listeners. We've got a special addition to our feed this week, a little bonus episode with the writer and poet Sandra Cisneros. I talked to her this summer at the National Book Festival in Washington, D.C. in front of a live audience. So Sandra is most famous for writing a novel called the House on Mango street, which centered the life and the voice of a young Chicana in a time when not a lot of books like that were getting published. We were talking as a way to mark the 40th anniversary of that book. But to my extreme delight, Sandra was up for playing an abbreviated version of Wild Card on stage. And that's what we're sharing with you today. I was nervous because I wasn't sure if being in front of a big crowd would kill the intimacy of the game, but instead, it created an exciting energy in the room. Could have been the fact that everyone there was hanging on her every word. I mean, she is so very good at words, after all. It was also one of the rare times I got to actually interview a guest in person. And Sandra used the opportunity to put her hands up to the cards and actually catch a vibe from them that determined which one she chose. It was really fun. Okay, here's my live conversation with Sandra Cisneros. Okay, so there's three rounds, folks, in this game, and there are a couple of things to remember. You have two tools at your disposal. You have a skip. So if a question isn't resonating with you, you can just say, skip, please, and I'll replace it with another question from the deck, and you have a flip. The flip puts me on the spot. You can ask me to answer the question before you. You do not have to deploy either of these tools, but they are there for you. Okay. And when we get to the end, there's a special treat. I'm not gonna tell you what it is.

[Sandra Cisneros]

Food. Mm.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

It's not Rice Krispie Treats, just in case you're pointing.

[Sandra Cisneros]

Well, I would like Rice Krispies treats.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

I love a good Rice Krispie treat. Okay. Three cards. The thing with this game is that you get to pick 1, 2, or 3.

[Sandra Cisneros]

Okay. Can you put them near me?

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

Yeah, but you can't read them, so.

[Sandra Cisneros]

I'm not reading them.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

Okay.

[Sandra Cisneros]

Oh, you're feeling them.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

Oh, I like it two. Who was an adult besides your parents, who had an influence on you for good or for ill?

[Sandra Cisneros]

Oh, you know, there were people that came into my life, I'm very lucky, that had big influence on helping me to lose shame and to be more courageous about speaking out. And the first person who did that was sixth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade when I changed schools and I had just gotten a new pair of glasses and they were little blue cat eyes. I'm still wearing cat eyes from Sears. And I remember we changed schools and the teacher took one of my drawings and took it off my desk and I just felt my heart just leap. I thought she was going to do what they did at the other school, which is make an example of you and make fun of you of what you're not supposed to do. Because that's how they did it the other school. So my heart leapt and I thought, what have I done wrong? She took my drawing and she pushpinned it center front of the room and said, look what our new student has created. This beautiful drawing. And I was, you mean that's good. No one had ever acknowledge art as being something positive in my last school. And no one had ever seen me. And the fact that she was promoting and celebrating me made me think I had fooled her because of my little blue glasses. And I thought, oh, she thinks I'm smart. Hi, pobrecita. So I thought, well, I'm going to do something, you know, I'll try harder because she's obviously mistaken. So I will try a little harder. And I did something I never did at my other school. And that's when I knew an answer. I would raise my hand. And gradually my grades moved up from D's and C's to C's and B's. And by the time I graduated, I was an A and B student. And that teacher taught me something. And that is that when you love your students, your students know it. And when you don't love them, they know it too. That's not something they can teach you at a university. You either love your students or you don't. And this teacher loved us and she nourished us with that love. So of course I had to step up my game. I had to meet that love. And I will never forget her. But I've forgotten her name. But I will never forget her. The reason why I forgot her name is because I only knew her for a few months. Because I graduated to the next class. I came mid year. But I see her and I've acknowledged her in the acknowledgments of my last book of poetry, I call her Mrs. So and so. And Mrs. So and so was kind and loving. And when you're an insecure child, you need big doses of love. Yeah.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

It's a reminder to all of us when we see children in our lives.

[Sandra Cisneros]

Yeah.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

That to just pay attention.

[Sandra Cisneros]

Yeah. She came at just the right time. And we changed schools because of pipes that broke in our brownstone. And I thank God for those broken pipes. I wouldn't be here today if we hadn't changed schools. Yeah.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

After a break, Sandra reflects on why she finds death exciting.

[NPR Sponsor (speculated name: unknown)]

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[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

We're moving to the next round. We are going deeper as we go. Three new cards. One, two, three.

[Sandra Cisneros]

I'm an intuitive.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

I believe you. What's something about yourself that you have reluctantly realized is true? You have a sketch.

[Sandra Cisneros]

I would have to write a poem to get the answer to that one. So maybe we'll skip it. That's a lot of. No, that's a good question because I think we learn things about ourselves every year as we get older, don't we? I'm trying to prepare for my graduation, which is my death. You know, I'm going to graduate and I have in this period. I don't want to be afraid. I want to go and, you know, not cling to life because I think death is kind of exciting. You know, I'm an intuitive and I know there's something because I've seen spirits. So I don't know what's there. But whatever it is, it can't be as hard as living. So I think there are things worse than death, and we know those things, we write about them. But I want to be prepared to leave this world feeling like I earned my death. I want to feel courageous. I want to be a model for people letting go of this life, because I think we tend to force people to stay alive longer than their time. I witnessed that with my father and I want to go and say, woohoo. Isn't this interesting? Wow. I had no idea. I didn't think it was going to be like this. So whatever it is that's out there, whatever that ether is, I want clarity and I need to practice that between now and whenever that moment is. I'm sort of.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

Forgive me, I sort of lost the connection between. The card said, what is something you've reluctantly realized is true about yourself?

[Sandra Cisneros]

Well, I guess.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

And you went, I guess.

[Sandra Cisneros]

Well, because I'm learning so much. This is the exciting thing about getting older. You know, there's some horrible things. Yes, the parts are wearing out, the warranty's out, but there's a wonderful phrase in Spanish, de estas alpuras. From these heights, you are at a height where you can review your life and you have gratitude for your mistakes. Because like, you know, when they read my awards, before it came out, I said, I wish they would read my failures. Because we learn more from our failures.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

Oh, we got lots of cards on failures.

[Sandra Cisneros]

We got a long bio list for our failures. But think about if you didn't have those failures, you wouldn't be who you are now. The success isn't the awards, it's getting up from those failures. And you keep going, you keep learning, you keep transmogrifying, you know, you keep transforming yourself. So I think this is a magical mystery period of my life that from these heights I can look back and say, oh, look what she did there. Well, good. Lucky she did that, you know that I can kind of gather it up and it helps launch me forward.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

Our last round, three new cards. One, two, three in the middle. Is there anything in your life that feels like praying?

[Sandra Cisneros]

Writing poetry is praying. If we all wrote poems every day, we would be better human beings, you know, if we all wrote about the things that strike our heart, good or bad, every day, even just a button. And by a button, you don't have to think of a beginning, middle or end. Just write one little, one little pearl button of something that touched your heart. Good, bad, indifferent. That's all you have to do. And you collect these and then you put them all together and it helps you to understand yourself. And for me it has helped me. I suffer from depression, but I never have to take drugs. I just write poetry. I read poetry. Yeah, I read poetry. When the poetry is not enough, then I see a therapist, you know. But so far, you know, I learned from my mistake that I don't have to get that depressed anymore. I know what to do now, you know, from my mistakes. And you know, I had periods in my life where I wasn't writing, I wasn't connecting with people, I was in a new environment, I was meeting my, my specters, the thing that made me most terrified. And I was doing it all by myself and I wasn't strong enough to handle all that. And I slid into like a nine month depression and became very suicidal. And I think one of the things that we're ashamed about if we come from poor communities is that, you know, we don't think of going to a therapist. You know, we just kind of drink or take drugs or beat up people or get beaten up. You know, we beat ourselves up. Very self destructive behavior, Eat. Sometimes people overeat from, they can't handle pain that life is giving them. But I never thought of going to see a therapist because I thought going to see a therapist was something wealthy people did, white people did, or people that were crazy or all of the above. And I didn't know that if I'd had a wound on my body that didn't heal for nine months, of course I would go to a doctor, not be ashamed. But I felt ashamed about going to seek a mental health specialist for my nine month depression. And so that's something I talk about. If you've been depressed for over nine months, it's not shameful. If you were in another community, you would go see a shaman or shamana, a curandera. And you can still see them too, but also go see a therapist. And there are sliding scales so you don't have to worry that it's out of your reach. Sometimes you don't have to pay anything, but it's very important that you take care of your soul. And sometimes writing poetry isn't enough. There have been times in my life that it isn't enough, but poetry keeps me healthy. It's my medication. Reading poetry and if you don't know who to read, you can go to the library and get an anthology and read the writers that speak to your heart. But it's so important that we write poetry, that we read poetry. It's like a, what do they call that when they do that investigative surgery, and they tend to camera in your body. What's that called?

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

Laparoscopic surgery?

[Sandra Cisneros]

Yeah, but like, it's that for your heart. So you're seeing. How am I? Well, let me see. I have to write a poem. See, and that's a great thing about writing poetry. You don't know what it's about. You don't know what it's about when you begin, you might begin writing about tulips and then it tells you about your mother. I thought I was writing about tulips. And that's what's so great about it. It's a kite that you have to give it string, you have to follow it, you have to run. And then it lifts off. And when it picks your feet off, off the ground, that's it. But you have to compost the evil stuff that you're churning. If it's evil, often it is. And then when it composts and a little white flower blooms, you're done.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

After a quick break, Sandra takes a trip in our memory time machine, and it's a doozy.

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[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

Okay, so with every episode of Wildcard, we play this conversation game, and then we end with a trip in our memory time machine. And then I make a weird sound effect, you know, like a time machine. And we take you to a place. You get to choose one moment in your past that you would not change anything about.

[Sandra Cisneros]

Oh, thank you.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

But you would just like to linger there a little longer. Can you take us?

[Sandra Cisneros]

I've written about it. It's called Akumal. It's a place in the Yucatan, away from Cancun, in that neck of the woods. And I had a mystical experience when I was very young. I've had a lot of mystical experiences, but that was like, major. I went there with my parents just before I started graduate school, and my father and mother were very interested in getting water. And we stopped. At that time, Akumal was. There were no hotels, no condos like now. It was just some hammocks strung up between palm trees and some little sheds selling drinks. And they left me alone. And I lay down on a very shallow body of water that was a little inlet. I don't like beaches and I don't like water, and I'm not a great swimmer, so it has to be like that shallow for me to want to get in. And it was the softest sand. If you've been to the Mayan Riviera, you know, it's the softest sand in the world. And it was all rippled like the roof of your mouth, so when you lay down on it, it cushions you at the right places. And the water was warm, and the palm branches were giving me a cleansing. And the wind was just right, and the ocean was lapping at my earlobes. And suddenly everything shifted by itself. And I was in a state that we don't have a word for. It was like I understood what the Buddha understood, that I was connected to everything. I could never die because I was also the wind and the trees and the water and the sand and the universe. And everything was one textile. It was all interwoven. And I understood that. And I knew that, you know, well, I don't mind dying Right now this is perfectly fine because I can't die. And it was so wonderful. I don't know how many seconds or years or minutes I was in that state of absolute bliss. And then my father said, sandra Vavanos. And I had to get up and go back to the real world and get in the car. And I thought, what the hell? What was that? I was too young to know what that was. I still am not old enough to know what that was. And whatever it was, it just was a little like, you know, zoom. We're going to give her a little laser beam. And I thought that was so amazing. It's happened to me again. It happens with great states of intense beauty, but I don't cause it. It's not like meditating. It just. It only happened to me one other time besides that, after that. And I don't know what to call it, except Maslow calls it peak experience. I don't know Maslow. I don't know what to do. But anyway, it's a gift for me. It was a message and a vision. And I did not know I was an intuitive then and now I do. So it's for me to share and to tell you that we're all interconnected, like the Buddhists say we inter are. And so there's no me and you or I or they. It's all part of that. And I think we're witnessing that with the problems we're having with the environment, with something like Covid that makes us understand how much we are connected to one another. Anyway, I don't know what it was, but there it is.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

That was beautiful.

[Sandra Cisneros]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Host (speculated name: unknown)]

That's it for this special bonus episode of Wildcard. If you like this one, you should absolutely check out our episode with Poet Laureate Ada Limone. It's one of my favorites, for sure. This episode was produced by Taylor Hutchison and edited by Dave Blanchard. Wildcard's executive producer is Beth Donovan. Our theme music is by Ramtin Arablouei. You can reach out to [e-mail] we'll shuffle the deck and be back in your feed Thursday. See you then.

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