Bowen Yang thinks being present is overrated (encore)

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin – Episode Summary: Bowen Yang Thinks Being Present Is Overrated (Encore)
Release Date: February 27, 2025

Introduction

In this encore episode of Wild Card with Rachel Martin, host Rachel Martin welcomes Bowen Yang, the acclaimed actor, writer, and comedian known for his groundbreaking role on Saturday Night Live (SNL). Celebrated as one of the New York Times' Top 10 Podcasts of 2024, Wild Card diverges from conventional interview formats by utilizing a unique deck of cards to prompt guests with unexpected and profound questions about their lives. This episode delves into Bowen Yang's journey, his introspections on fame, personal growth, and his nuanced perspectives on being present.

Round One: Memories

Exploring Childhood Pride and Pivotal Choices

Rachel and Bowen kick off the conversation with the "Memories" round, prompting Bowen to reflect on formative moments from his past.

• Proud Childhood Moment:
  Bowen shares a heartfelt memory from first grade in Montreal, where his unstructured drawing time led him to create a clown with blue hair, which his teacher submitted to an art contest. This unexpected recognition won him 20 Canadian dollars, serving as his first taste of creative validation.
  Quote:

  "I remember in the first grade, or year one, as we called it in Canada... And then I won a full 20 Canadian dollars. And it was the first. I think it was a pretty vital moment of, like, creative validation for me growing up."
  (05:18)

• Choosing a Different Path:
  Reflecting on his academic journey, Bowen discusses his initial pursuit of a chemistry major at NYU and the subsequent realization that medicine wasn't his calling. Influenced by an interview with Steve Carell, Bowen made the pivotal decision to abandon his medical aspirations, leading him to embrace comedy as his true passion.
  Quote:

  "And then I was like, I can't do this. Walked over to the proctor, said, I'm gonna avoid my test. Thank you very much."
  (08:51)
  Follow-up Quote:
  "That was a moment where, you know, like, the door slid. Like, it could have really gone one way or the other."
  (09:45)

Round Two: Insights

Self-Observations and Personal Growth

In the "Insights" round, Rachel delves into Bowen's current self-awareness and personal observations.

• Desired Qualities:
  Bowen expresses admiration for individuals who effortlessly connect others, fostering relationships and creating social harmonies. He contrasts this with his own experience, where social interactions can be draining, leading him to question if his tendencies make him selfish.
  Quote:

  "I have that same thought where I'm like, oh, Am I. Does this make me, like, a selfish person?"
  (13:24)

• Balancing Individuality and Collectivism:
  Discussing his individualized approach to life, Bowen acknowledges the challenges of balancing personal needs with collective responsibilities. He recognizes the importance of integrating past experiences with present awareness to enrich his current state.
  Quote:

  "I don't do that enough. And that is what kind of hampers me a bit."
  (17:08)

• Coping with Public Scrutiny:
  Bowen touches on the pressures of being in the public eye, emphasizing the need to balance authenticity with self-censorship to maintain personal integrity without succumbing to paralysis from overthinking.
  Quote:

  "I think what you're saying is that you want to have more of a balance."
  (18:37)

Round Three: Beliefs

Philosophical Reflections and Metaphysical Musings

The "Beliefs" round invites Bowen to explore his deeper convictions and philosophical viewpoints.

• Beliefs He Let Go Of:
  While initially hesitant to answer, Bowen eventually discusses his skepticism towards supernatural phenomena, balancing his scientific allegiance with a belief in a meta-reality that transcends empirical evidence.
  Quote:

  "I am generally a skeptic with things... But I feel like there is this meta reality or something that exists that people can tap into."
  (23:15)

• Designing the Afterlife:
  Bowen envisions an afterlife that blends whimsy with meaningful reflection. He imagines it featuring roller coasters to capture joyous sounds and a "library of screenplays" documenting individuals' lives, allowing a non-deterministic exploration of personal narratives and interactions.
  Quote:

  "I would love there to be a few roller coasters... and a library of screenplays that are for people's experiences in life."
  (26:19)
  Additional Insight:
  Bowen elaborates on his desire for documentation and dialogue, highlighting a personal longing to preserve and reflect upon life’s moments.
  "I just love reading dialogue that is literally real because, like, most of it is boring, but I feel like the way dialogue sort of reads off the page when it's real is fascinating to me."
  (28:34)

The Prize: Memory Time Machine

As the game concludes, Bowen earns a "trip in our memory Time machine," allowing him to revisit a cherished moment without the intent to change it. He chooses the morning he was moved to the SNL cast, a moment of profound personal significance. Bowen describes waking up at dawn to watch the sunrise in Prospect Park, Brooklyn, capturing the serenity before his life took a dramatic turn into the public spotlight. This reflection underscores his appreciation for quiet, introspective moments amidst the chaos of fame.

Quote:

"I just said what I have to do is get up at the crack of dawn and you need to take a long walk and you need to just sit on a bench in Prospect park... And just take this in."
(29:51)

Conclusion

Rachel expresses heartfelt gratitude to Bowen Yang for sharing his intimate stories and reflections, highlighting the unique and thoughtful nature of their conversation. The episode wraps up with credits acknowledging the production team and contributors.

Notable Quotes

• On Over Privileging the Present:

  "I feel like being present is overrated... I forget that I have been through tough things before."
  (16:24)

• On Authenticity and Public Disclosure:

  "Authenticity is dangerous and expensive." – Tina Fey
  "I've been re-evaluating what it means or, like, how worth it it is to, like, be honest about everything."
  (19:12)

• On Social Connections:

  "I just have boundless like so much bandwidth for a lot of people in their life."
  (13:12)

Final Thoughts

This episode of Wild Card offers a profound exploration of Bowen Yang's personal and professional journey, blending humor with deep introspection. Through the innovative card-based format, listeners gain intimate insights into Bowen's experiences, beliefs, and the moments that have shaped his path to success.

Transcript

[Bowen Yang]

This Message comes from NPR sponsor 1Password. Secure access to your online world, from emails to banking, so you can protect what matters most with 1Password. For a free two week trial, go to 1Password.com NPR.

[Rachel Martin]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Shopify. No idea where to sell? Shopify puts you in control of every sales channel. It is the commerce platform revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. Whether you're a garage entrepreneur or IPO ready, Shopify, Shopify is the only tool you need to start, run and grow your business without the struggle. Once you've reached your audience, Shopify has the Internet's best converting checkout to help you turn them from browsers to buyers. Go to Shopify.com NPR to take your business to the next level today.

Hey there, it's Rachel, and this week we're bringing one of my favorite conversations back to the top of your feed. It's with a guy who seems to be everywhere right now. Maybe you saw him in the Saturday Night Live 50th anniversary special or alongside Ariana Grande in Wicked Bowen. Yang is riding high right now and having a damn good time in the process. I talked with him this past spring in a moment when he was trying to figure out how to navigate his new level of fame and all the expectations that come with it. He was thoughtful and so lovely and I think you're gonna dig it. Take a listen. How do you get in your own way?

[Bowen Yang]

Hmm. I get in my own way by like over privileging the present.

[Rachel Martin]

That's so interesting. Cause everyone wants to be in the present.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like that's overrated. I feel like being present is overrated.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life, questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one question back on me.

[Bowen Yang]

Not that I'm like permanently camped out at the present, but I do forget about the past. I forget that I have been through tough things before.

[Rachel Martin]

So I gotta tell you, I take research very seriously. My team and I spend hours digging through articles and profiles of our guests, trying to understand them. Right. This is serious work. And of course, this is what I did to prepare for my conversation with Bo and Yang. I knew a lot about him already, though, like the fact that he's the first Chinese American cast member on Saturday Night Live. I know the inside jokes from his podcast Las Culturistas, which he hosts with his best friend Matt Rogers. But I also have to cop to the fact that the research for this interview was just a good time because I had an excuse to watch a lot of SNL clips. The iceberg that sank. The Titanic. The Chinese spy balloon. The tiny desk. Intern Bowen Yang, classics all. But as much as I love him on snow, it was the 2022 Rom com fire island that made me fall in love with Bowen Yang. He turned what could have been a light and easy role as the best friend who never gets the guy into something heartbreakingly real and joyful. So it is my very great pleasure to welcome Bowen Yang to our show. Bowen, thank you for being here.

[Bowen Yang]

Hi, Rachel. Thanks for having me. The less you read, the better. So I'm glad you didn't do too much research.

[Rachel Martin]

Perfect. Then I read the perfect amount.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, good.

[Rachel Martin]

But really, I'm so glad you're here. I've been waiting to get to talk to you for a long time. So I'm glad we get to do it in the format of this crazy game.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes, me too. So I'm nervous.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, don't be nervous. Don't be nervous, because we're gonna ease our way into this. So what happens when one lands their dream job? Because SNL had been a thing that you quite literally had dreamed about doing for a very long time when you were growing up, and it was a thing that you saw and thought, I don't know. No, I couldn't. But wouldn't it be cool if I could?

[Bowen Yang]

I think I was leaning more in the I couldn't notion of it. Like, it was a thing where, I mean, blah, blah, blah, representation matters. But also, like, when my manager at the time was like, snl's looking for tapes. If you want to send in 5 minutes of characters and impressions, go for it. I was like, yeah, I'll do it on a lark, because there's no way they're ever going to hire for camera this effeminate Asian man. And I was just throwing everything against the wall, being like, this is for me, this is not for them. I don't think this will be seen. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Cause you convince yourself you have nothing to lose, so you might as well put it all out there.

[Bowen Yang]

Exactly. And then once I landed it, it was just about seeing what I could probably get away with because I was like, I think I infiltrated the system here somehow. But it's always been. It's just been. It's been the best. I mean, I. I will cherish this time forever.

[Rachel Martin]

How do you feel about playing the game?

[Bowen Yang]

Let's do it.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, round one. Memories. In this round, we're looking back at things that have shaped you people, experiences. Okay.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

So I have three cards in front of me. You pick one, two, or three.

[Bowen Yang]

I'm gonna go with three.

[Rachel Martin]

This one. What was a moment when you felt proud of yourself as a kid?

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, wow. I have such an immediate answer. See, my fear coming into this was that I would be stumped and that I would not. I would have to rummage through my entire.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, we might get to that point.

[Bowen Yang]

We might get to that point. No, no. Thank goodness. I remember in the first grade, or year one, as we called it in Canada, I was in Montreal at the time. And then there was just a class one day in school where we drew. I had pastels, and then there was unstructured, like, drawing time. Right. First grade, classic, classic stuff. I drew a clown with blue hair, a flower in his shirt, standing outside the circus. And then there was a speech bubble on the clown, and he was saying, hallo. Your French Quebecois greeting. Hallo. Pretty simple stuff, right? But apparently the teacher at the time thought it was so sophisticated that she, like, submitted it to this art contest. And then I won a full 20 Canadian dollars. And it was the first. I think it was a pretty vital moment of, like, creative validation for me growing up. And my parents were very excited, and I got 20 bucks.

[Rachel Martin]

Did your parents think you were gonna be an artist or you just moved on from that?

[Bowen Yang]

No, they really pushed that. And for some reason, art was, like, acceptable creative outlets for an Asian child of immigrants.

[Rachel Martin]

It was the. The high arts.

[Bowen Yang]

It was the high arts. So I think they were very confused when I pivoted years later to improv comedy and, like, telling jokes on stage, because they were like, this is completely crude. What happened to, you know, you're like, pretty clown pastel? You're pretty clown pastel. And I was okay at the violin. Like, I really hit all my. I hit all my Asian child Marx growing up in the US and somehow I landed on comedy.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, I think it's a good fit. Just saying. I think it all worked out the way it was supposed to. Okay, moving on. Still in memories. One, two, three.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, great. Maybe let's switch over to one.

[Rachel Martin]

Let's switch to one, shall we? Let's just see what's happening over here.

[Bowen Yang]

Let's see.

[Rachel Martin]

What was a moment in your life when you could have chosen a different path?

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, I went to school at nyu, and the pathway was gonna be, you're gonna major in chemistry. You're gonna take Your mcat, you're gonna go to med school. And the comedy stuff is sort of like being relegated to a hobby. That was my way of sort of putting a lid on things until the top kind of just blew off. Right. As I graduated college, I remember commencement being with a lot of students who were just so excited about the next thing. And I felt none of that. And then I retook my mcat. I took it twice. And so I remember being in the testing center at a computer. And I just remember an interview with Steve Carell where he said he was gonna apply to law school. And then once he got to either the written portion of the LSAT or something on his law school application, that he just realized he couldn't do it. And then, like, that moment, that interview flashed before me in the testing center.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, whoa.

[Bowen Yang]

And then I was like, I can't do this. Walked over to the proctor, said, I'm gonna avoid my test. Thank you very much. And I think he was pretty perplexed. Cause we were like, well into, like, hour four. Right. It's not like.

[Rachel Martin]

You just sat through four hours exactly. Just sedative.

[Bowen Yang]

It took you this long to realize. I know. He was like, you might as well just, like, close it up, whatever. And I remember calling my parents outside, telling them what had happened.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

I was fearing the worst. I was fearing them. Just.

[Rachel Martin]

You've let us down. Completely confounded.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. And they were pretty delicate with me.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm glad. Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. But that was a moment. That was a moment where, you know, like, the door slid. Like, it was like it could have really gone one way or the other.

[Rachel Martin]

You could be a heart surgeon right.

[Bowen Yang]

Now or a bad heart surgeon.

[Rachel Martin]

I hope in the other life you're a good one.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, well, a heart surgeon who's, so to speak, heart wasn't in it, you know.

[Rachel Martin]

Right. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Squarespace. Measure your end to end online performance with powerful website and seller analytics. Get insights, track sales metrics and more. Go to squarespace.com NPR for 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

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You have pass through round one. We are now in round two. Okay, great. In this round we are focused on insights. So this is stuff that you're working on now. Observations you've made about yourself, what you're learning. Three new cards.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, different colors.

[Rachel Martin]

Yes. Round two is blue.

[Bowen Yang]

Very good.

[Rachel Martin]

Two or three?

[Bowen Yang]

Let's do two.

[Rachel Martin]

Two. I don't know why two always makes me want to sing, but it does.

[Bowen Yang]

It's nice.

[Rachel Martin]

Mm.

What's a quality you're drawn to that you don't possess?

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, can I flip it? Can I ask you that?

[Rachel Martin]

Sure, sure you can. In general, I like people who are connectors of other people. Do you know what I mean? That person who derives a lot of self worth from bringing other people together and, and like matchmaking that way and like having great dinner parties and seeing what relationships pop up from that. I am so not that person. Like dinner parties make me tired. And I like the people who know me well know that I'm always gonna be the first to leave. And so I really am drawn to people who are really good at socializing like, and I mean that genuinely, not like, oh, they're really good at making small talk. I mean really good at cultivating relationships and bringing other people together. And it's such a lovely. And I wish. And I've really done a lot of like, is it because I'm really self centered and I just need everything to be my way all the time. I mean, maybe, but I'm really drawn to people who can, who just seem to like, they just have boundless like so much bandwidth for a lot of people in their life.

[Bowen Yang]

Sure. Isn't it so interesting Cause I have that same thought where I'm like, oh, Am I. Does this make me, like, a selfish person? If my social battery drains a little bit faster than most others and, like, why is that, like, the counter, like, reality to that?

[Rachel Martin]

I know.

[Bowen Yang]

It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. I don't think it is.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, but you still have to answer the question.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, fine, fine, fine.

[Rachel Martin]

What is a quality that you. Maybe you, like, see it in a bunch of your friends, but you know that it's not, like, a thing you have in spades?

[Bowen Yang]

Sure. The joke answer is, I wish I could be the person who opens up any fridge or pantry and is like, okay, I know what I'm gonna make for dinner. Like, I like. Isn't that such a superpower?

[Rachel Martin]

That's a real answer. It's a total.

[Bowen Yang]

Is that a real answer?

[Rachel Martin]

Well, if you have say more about.

[Bowen Yang]

That, I'll give you a second answer. But for this first answer, it's like, you know, if you're, like, with friends, staying in, like, a vacation situation, like a group house.

[Rachel Martin]

Yes.

[Bowen Yang]

Are A, excited about that idea, and then, B, like, the act of opening up a fridge or a pantry, looking at what's there, and then, like, improvising in the kitchen, like, that is so, so, so foreign to me.

[Rachel Martin]

They're like anchovy paste and tomatoes and cheddar cheese.

[Bowen Yang]

Delicious, delicious. I got it. It's gonna be lasagna. Somehow you're like, what? How did you come up with that? Okay, so that's the more frivolous answer. Okay, the other one, I think it is this ability that people have that I don't, where they can, like, think in this very collectivist way. I feel like I am very individualized, and I think about my needs in a way that is, like, totally okay. It's not a problem. It's the way that, like, the human brain has evolved, which is to make rapid assessments and decisions, not to patiently think about something that's just not something that, like, we ever had to do to survive. And that's something that I think everyone struggles with. But some people just seem to have, like, an easier way to tap into that, to, like, think of, like, the meta. And I feel like I think pretty small scale, which I think is okay. Like, I go to work, and it never occurs to me that, like, millions of people are watching what I'm doing.

[Rachel Martin]

You have to be that way, right? Like, you can't be the other way.

[Bowen Yang]

Otherwise you lose your mind.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, not that you need my validation, but I think. I think your brain is good. I think you think of things exactly the right way.

[Bowen Yang]

You need to tell my therapist Rachel.

[Rachel Martin]

Said my brain is good. Okay, we're moving to the next question. Three more cards. One, two, three.

[Bowen Yang]

Let's go with three.

[Rachel Martin]

How do you get in your own way?

[Bowen Yang]

Oh. Hmm. How do I get in my own way? I get in my own way by, like, over privileging the present. I don't ever.

[Rachel Martin]

That's interesting, because everyone wants to be in the present.

[Bowen Yang]

Like, that's the thing.

[Rachel Martin]

Everyone's like, no, I just gotta be in the present all the time. No.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like that's overrated. I feel like being present is overrated. Not that I'm, like, constantly there. Not that I'm, like, permanently camped out at the present, but I do. Like, I forget about the past. I forget that I have, like, been through tough things before. I. I guess I need to pair, like, being in the present with, like, acknowledging, like, the totality of the past.

[Rachel Martin]

May I gently nudge in that direction? Because you have been through hard things, you know, and just being a gay man in America is a thing. And I can imagine that there are things that it would be easier to just not erase them from your memory. But you say you over privilege the present, but if you over privilege the past, then that could occupy too much of your space to a point of paralysis. Maybe now I'm saying things that I'm projecting on you.

[Bowen Yang]

But no, no, that's totally right, because I think I just. I think this is just what we do in terms of compartmentalizing, is we just cordon off.

[Rachel Martin]

Lock that bad boy up.

[Bowen Yang]

Exactly. But I think, like, let's just, like, dangle the keys in front of us and be like, oh, right, let's, like, open up the file and let's go through the cabinet. I think I don't do that enough. And that is what kind of hampers me a bit. Yeah, Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

I think what you're saying is that you want to have more of a balance.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

And maybe there's some stuff worth taking from the file cabinet of your past that doesn't have to be triggering, but it can enrich your present.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, Yeah. I think I. God, I must have. I think I lost the thread on that metaphor for a second with the filing cabinet. But thank you for making sense of it.

[Rachel Martin]

I don't know. Okay, we are moving on. Three new cards. Last question in this round. 1, 2, 3.

[Bowen Yang]

Let's go with one.

[Rachel Martin]

What have you learned to be careful about?

[Bowen Yang]

Ugh. This is, like, really Something that I've dwelled on for the past, oh, two, three months. Tina Fey came on my podcast and she, in a very playful, so brilliant way, was railing against me for sharing my real opinions on movies on the podcast and just my real opinions in general. Like, sometimes I use my podcast as a diary and I'm like, oh, this is what happened to me today. And if I go back and listen to it now, I'm like, wait, why did I have to bring that up? But basically what Tina was saying was, this is something. This is a permanent record. It's like that thing of, like, the Internet is written in permanent marker. And she was saying the phrase that kind of, like, went a little viral from that was her saying, authenticity is dangerous and expensive. And I really am still reckoning with that idea where I'm like, I've always been an open book. I've always shared my thoughts pretty extemporaneously on things and haven't really regretted them too much. But now I think I'm reevaluating what it means or, like, how worth it it is to, like, be honest about everything. But then at the same time, like, if you kind of start to self censor a bit, then, like, what does that do to your idea of yourself?

[Rachel Martin]

It's hard. I mean, it's not like, woe is you. Your life is so hard.

[Bowen Yang]

No, no, not at all.

[Rachel Martin]

But being in the public spotlight, it forces you to figure that out. I think that's what Tina Fey was saying. Right. Like, you might want to work with these people someday.

[Bowen Yang]

Sure. But I think I'm just applying that, like, even just. I think I'm applying that to everything where I'm thinking it's not about other people, it's about, like, my own. The way I mull things over just out loud. And how. Yeah. And how, like, the idea that people are listening or watching is so overwhelming if I think about it for too long. And isn't that ironic because I feel like we've all. With media. That's the whole point. The whole point is for it to be, like, disseminated and it's for it to be, like, distributed widely and literally broadcast. But. But, like, there's something a little paralyzing about that.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Well, and also, Bowen, you have to keep things. You have to keep some things for yourself. Everybody, including me, is entitled to all your things.

[Bowen Yang]

There you.

[Rachel Martin]

This message comes from bombas. Socks, underwear, and T shirts are the top three requested clothing items by people experiencing homelessness. Bombas makes all three and donates one item for every item purchased. Go to bombas.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off. This message comes from Warby Parker. What makes a great pair of glasses at Warby Parker? It's all the invisible extras without the extra cost, like free adjustments for life. Find your [e-mail] or visit one of their hundreds of stores around the country. This message comes from homes.com what kind of programs does this school have? How are the test scores? These are all things parents ask when they home shop. That's why Each listing on Homes.com includes extensive reports on local schools. We've done your homework. This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks, Mint Mobile might be right for you. With plans starting from 15 bucks a month. Shop plans [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of 45 dollars for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required. New customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

Round three.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, beliefs. I'm definitely gonna use a script for this.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, let's go 1, 2, 3.

[Bowen Yang]

Let's go with 2.

[Rachel Martin]

What's a belief you had to let go of?

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, wow. This is such a hard question. And I, I don't want to skip it, but I feel like I can't. I can't come up with anything right now.

[Rachel Martin]

We're skipping it.

[Bowen Yang]

We're skipping.

[Rachel Martin]

I don't even have to think twice about it.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, great.

[Rachel Martin]

All right, we are replacing it with one from the deck. Do you think there's more to reality than we can see or touch?

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I am generally a skeptic with things. I read too many Carl Sagan books in college. I feel like I have to, like, have some allegiance to science and empirical things and things that are observable and things that can be like, represented in data or something. But I feel like there is this meta reality or something that exists that people can tap into because, like, I, I know the question is not necessarily implying anything supernatural, but we had on a medium for the podcast.

[Rachel Martin]

Tell me, tell me. We can go supernatural all day long.

[Bowen Yang]

Great. Amazing. This guy was pretty good. Tyler Henry. He's also known to some people as the Hollywood medium. And it all sounds like, again, like, it invites skepticism because you're like, how much did he know beforehand? And he said things to me that really were like, really conceptual and not necessarily, oh, this person is in this other dimension. And they're trying to communicate this to you. For me, it was just like, oh, What I'm picking up from you is that, like, you have this legacy of people who were not able to, like, share their lives or, like, the legacy is a little bit blurred. My dad grew up in a rural part of China where most of his relatives are not really documented. He just. There was just no family tree or history to sort of go off of, and no one could read, and no one went to school, and he was the first in his family to even go to college. And so what Tyler Henry was basically saying was, like, you are able to sort of, like, end this cycle of one, shame and two, record in a weird way. Like, you get to sort of, like, through being yourself and being, like, a citizen of this world now, where people are, like, constantly tracking things and things are easily recorded for posterity. Like, that gets to sort of be like, one of your sort of, like, motivating forces in life. And that's something that I kind of loved hearing. Like, it was very meaningful to hear because it was borrowed from this, like, metaphysical space. But at the same time, it applies to something that I can do now, and it is from a reality that is unobservable, which I kind of love.

[Rachel Martin]

Last question, last question. Last question. Let's make it three more cards. We're still in beliefs. 1, 2, or 3?

[Bowen Yang]

Let's do 3.

[Rachel Martin]

1, 2, 3. Oh, if you could design the afterlife, what would it look like?

[Bowen Yang]

Wow. I would love there to be a few roller coasters.

[Rachel Martin]

Yes. Wait, why am I saying that? I hate roller coasters. But, see, I just like the whimsy of it.

[Bowen Yang]

You like the whimsy of it?

[Rachel Martin]

I don't know where you're going.

[Bowen Yang]

No, but, like, you would like a rollercoaster for, like, family members.

[Rachel Martin]

I want there to be one for other people so I can walk by and hear them laughing and screaming and think, oh, look, isn't it cute that they're having fun on that thing and that I'm not on it, wanting to vomit? That's what I would like exactly.

[Bowen Yang]

Like, for whatever. Whatever your beliefs are about roller coasters, there is something about the soundscape of a theme park that is joyous and that is.

[Rachel Martin]

Yes, yes.

[Bowen Yang]

It is kind of nice to hear people excited and having fun. I just want there to be rides.

[Rachel Martin]

Rides. Okay. Rides. I wanted to give one other detail.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay. Of course. Oh. This is what I've thought about since I was a kid. This is not a design as it is just, like, a feature. I would like the afterlife to have. Or that I've always imagined the afterlife having is like the screenplay of your life, of anyone's life. Like, as we're talking, Rachel, Like, I want for me to be able. For anyone to be able to like, look through and be like, this is when Bowen was talking to Rachel Martin and. And this is not like a deterministic thing.

[Rachel Martin]

Images. It's not images. It's a screenplay.

[Bowen Yang]

I don't think it's images. I don't even. I don't even think it's like a movie. I don't think anything's like, produced out of it except, like, for. It's. It's. It's not this, like, determinist thing. It's like I used to think, like, oh, like God or whoever has the script for you and it's set and like, that is the determinist thing. Like, I think I want in the afterlife for there just to be a library of screenplays that are for people's experiences in life and that it is all documented. I love a document. I just love documentation in general.

[Rachel Martin]

I think that's great. Why?

[Bowen Yang]

Why?

[Rachel Martin]

Well, yeah, just for maybe. Am I getting really.

[Bowen Yang]

No, no.

[Rachel Martin]

Maybe because of the void in your family's documented history.

[Bowen Yang]

Probably. Oh my gosh, Rachel, that's great. I mean, like, I think it's that I just like reading dialogue that is literally real because, like, most of it is boring, but I feel like the way dialogue sort of reads off the page when it's real is fascinating to me. And I don't know, it seems fun and also like, it's dry and bo, but also ultimately fun. That's the.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm so into this idea of the afterlife heaven, whatever it is. There's a roller coaster and a library in Bowen Yang's afterlife. And I think I like both of those as like the, you know, in the mall, they've got the two stores that are the anchor stores. I like Roller Coaster and Library as the anchor stores of your afterlife. Mall, I think.

[Bowen Yang]

There you go. There you go. That's it. That's it.

[Rachel Martin]

So you won. You won the game. Woo. So you get a prize. And the prize is a trip in our memory Time machine.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes.

[Rachel Martin]

You get to visit one moment from your past. Okay, you revisit one moment from your past. This is not a moment that you want to change anything. This is just a moment that you want to linger in. What do you choose?

[Bowen Yang]

I am going to choose. There's the moment that Lauren called me to say that I was gonna get moved to the cast. And I remember that. And that was great. And I was very present in that. But I made it a point to the next day when they said, oh, we're gonna announce you being on the cast tomorrow. And I was, like, amazing. And I knew that I had to get up super early that morning just, like, for myself. Like, I. No one. I didn't have an early call time or anything. I just said what I have to do is get up at the crack of dawn and you need to take a long walk and you need to just sit on a bench in Prospect park in Brooklyn in New York and just watch the sunrise. Don't listen to music. Just, like, hear the sounds of, like, the world around you. And take this in. Take this last moment in before you go go down this crazy chute where you will likely have very little control over what happens from this point forward. This is your last moment to like yourself. And it's not to say that it won't go back to that, but that was like. I knew for whatever reason that that was gonna be, like, a moment that I had to really claim.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Before things were out there and before people could make, like, evaluations on you for, this is for you. And I took pictures. I did allow myself, like, a couple of photos. And I look at those all the time. It's just like, Prospect park at dawn. There's a dog, there's someone jogging. But I would love to just go back to that just for a second. So, yeah. Thanks for letting me go to that place in the time machine.

[Rachel Martin]

You're welcome. Thanks for taking us there. That was love. Lovely. Of course, Bo and Yang. It has just been the best time. Thank you so much for talking with us.

[Bowen Yang]

Thank you, Rachel. This is really, really special.

[Rachel Martin]

This episode was produced by Cher Vincent and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was fact checked by Nicolette Kahn and mastered by Robert Rodriguez. Wild Card's executive producer is Yolanda Sanguine. Our theme music is by Ramtin Arablouei. You can reach out to [e-mail] we're gonna shuffle the deck and we will be back with more next week. Talk to you then.

[Bowen Yang]

This message comes from NPR sponsor satva founder and CEO Ron Rutson shares the experience they hope to create in their viewing rooms. We want our customers to feel like they've walked into a luxury hotel. That's what Saatva has been inspired by from the day that we started. We take sleep very seriously. We believe it unlocks a superpower. If you get the right sleep on the right mattress. We believe we can provide that. To learn more, go to saatva.com NPR.

[Rachel Martin]

This message comes from Bombas. Their socks are super plush, designed to support your arches and support people in need. One purchase equals one donated to those experiencing homelessness. Go to bombus.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off your first order.

[Bowen Yang]

This message comes from ADP. Whether it's a last minute policy change or adding a new company holiday, anything can change the world of work. From HR to payroll, ADP helps businesses take on the next anything. ADP always designing for people.