For Natasha Rothwell improv is like prayer

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin: Episode Summary – "For Natasha Rothwell, Improv Is Like Prayer"

Released on March 13, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of Wild Card with Rachel Martin, host Rachel Martin engages in a heartfelt and insightful conversation with acclaimed actress Natasha Rothwell. Known for her pivotal role as Belinda in HBO’s The White Lotus and her award-winning show How to Die Alone, Rothwell delves deep into her personal and professional life, offering listeners an intimate glimpse into her journey, philosophies, and creative processes.

Career Journey

Natasha Rothwell shares her unconventional path to success, highlighting pivotal moments that shaped her career. She recounts her time in Tokyo, where she balanced teaching English with performing at the Tokyo Comedy Store. Reflecting on her decision to move to New York despite warnings, Rothwell emphasizes the importance of following one's ambitions:

"I was glad that I didn't listen to that or allow it to affect my eventual trajectory." ([04:26])

Rothwell also discusses her transition from supporting roles in shows like Insecure to leading her own series, How to Die Alone, which won an Independent Spirit Award for Best Ensemble Cast before its abrupt cancellation. Her return to The White Lotus in season three marks a significant milestone, showcasing her growth and resilience in the industry.

Personal Insights and Challenges

Throughout the conversation, Rothwell opens up about her struggles with anxiety and people-pleasing tendencies. She reflects on her teenage years, where solitude became a sanctuary for recharging, despite familial and societal expectations to prioritize others:

"I betrayed that solitude for a long time because of people pleasing." ([08:40])

Rothwell candidly discusses her journey towards self-awareness and the ongoing effort to balance social interactions with personal well-being. Her honesty provides listeners with an authentic portrayal of the challenges faced by those striving for personal and professional fulfillment.

Creativity and Artistry

Improv plays a central role in Rothwell's life, which she likens to prayer—a spiritual and connecting experience. She explains how improvisation allows her to tap into a collective creative force, enabling her to stay present and channel greater creativity:

"For me, if our definition of prayer is sort of communing with a higher power, that is my creative process." ([32:37])

This metaphor underscores the depth and significance of her artistic endeavors, illustrating how creativity serves as both a personal refuge and a means of connecting with something larger than herself.

Perspectives on Love and Relationships

Rothwell offers a touching reflection on her parents' long-lasting marriage, attributing her understanding of love to their example. She marvels at the enduring bond they share, highlighting qualities like mutual respect, adaptability, and unwavering commitment:

"They have grown together and have accepted all of those versions of each other." ([23:49])

Her observations emphasize the complexity and beauty of sustained relationships, providing listeners with a nuanced perspective on love’s evolution over time.

Spirituality and Beliefs

The conversation delves into Rothwell's evolving spirituality. Raised in the church, she describes her shift towards a more personal and individualized spiritual practice, distancing herself from organized religion while maintaining a sense of connection to a higher power:

"I'm pivoting from religion to a spiritual practice and am no longer sort of bound by specific tenets." ([26:43])

Rothwell articulates how her creative pursuits facilitate this communion with the divine, blending introspection with outward expression. This evolution reflects her broader journey of self-discovery and the redefinition of faith on her own terms.

Conclusion

As the episode draws to a close, Rothwell shares a poignant memory of personal peace and self-acceptance during a trip to Greece. Floating alone in a pool, she experienced a profound sense of freedom and contentment, symbolizing her ongoing quest for self-love and inner harmony:

"I was floating there, and I was at such peace, but it was also peace with my body and myself." ([37:35])

Rachel Martin wraps up the conversation by celebrating Rothwell's successes and expressing excitement for her future endeavors, leaving listeners inspired by Rothwell’s resilience, authenticity, and unwavering dedication to her craft.

Notable Quotes

• "Improv is like tapping into something that's bigger than you." – Natasha Rothwell ([00:24])

• "Quitting is not on the table." – Natasha Rothwell ([23:49])

• "It exists for me. It exists for you." – Natasha Rothwell ([26:46])

Final Thoughts

This episode of Wild Card offers a compelling exploration of Natasha Rothwell’s multifaceted life, blending personal anecdotes with profound insights. Her ability to intertwine humor, vulnerability, and wisdom provides a rich narrative that resonates with anyone navigating the complexities of career, relationships, and self-identity.

For more inspiring conversations, subscribe to Wild Card+ and gain access to bonus episodes at plus.npr.org/wildcard.

Transcript

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[Rachel Martin]

Hey everyone, Just a heads up, this episode contains a little bit of colorful language. Is there anything in your life that feels like praying?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Um, it comes to the art for me and improv. You tap into something that's bigger than you. When you're improvising and you're in that pocket, I don't know, it's cringe to say it because it's just like, ooh, you know? How does a eloquent dick joke equal praying? But sometimes. Sometimes, girl.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life, questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to to flip one question back on me. My guest this week is Natasha Rothwell.

[Natasha Rothwell]

We would do takes and I wouldn't even remember having done those things because I was so in it, in the moment, in the character, and I was able to channel the creative in that moment and commune with something bigger.

[Rachel Martin]

Anyone who has watched season one of the White Lotus knows that Natasha Rothwell's character, Belinda, is the heart and moral center of the show. She's a massage therapist at a fancy resort who puts up with a lot of very privileged people. It's shaping up to be the same in season three as Belinda returns to the show. This time, she gets to enjoy the luxuries of resort life herself in Thailand, where the season is set. And this time, Belinda is at sort of a crossroads in her life, putting herself first for a change, her dreams prioritizing the life she wants. It's hard not to draw a parallel between Belinda and the woman who plays her, because Natasha Rothwell is at her own kind of crossroads. She perfected the hilarious best friend role as Kelly in Issa Rae's show Insecure, and enjoyed some blockbuster buzz as Rachel in the Sonic the Hedgehog movies, my kid's favorite. But she got to take center stage in her own show called how to Die Alone, which was about waking up to your own worth. It was hilarious and heartfelt, and it won an Independent Spirit award for best ensemble cast, but was abruptly canceled after one season. She is no doubt managing that disappointment and at the same time soaking up all the White Lotus praise, and everyone who loves to watch her shine is anxious to see what she does next. Natasha Rothwell welcome to Wildcard.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Thank you for having me. I'm sorry. I need you to write all of my intros forever.

[Rachel Martin]

I love it. I'm so glad you're here. Since I developed this show, you were like on my list of people that I. I was desperate to have on. So I'm so glad it worked. Yay.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Me too.

[Rachel Martin]

How do you feel about games?

[Natasha Rothwell]

I'm very excited, especially for this game because I'm a fan of the show and just the spontaneity of this and the depth. I'm just like, I'm excited.

[Rachel Martin]

Yay. Yeah. I think you're gonna have a good time. It's a fun experience. Okay, you ready to go?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, first three cards. One. Two or three?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Three.

[Rachel Martin]

Three. What's a piece of advice you were smart to ignore?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Don't move to New York.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. Who told you to never move to New York?

[Natasha Rothwell]

I had someone when I was in D.C. after I had graduated college at University of Maryland, I lived in D.C. and I did improv and theater. And I'd always had ambitions to go to New York. And I kind of had my crosshairs set for New York. And one of my colleagues was just like, don't do that. Like, just don't do it. You're gonna go up there and you're gonna be one of all of these people. And here you're like, you could do more here. And hindsight being what it is, I think he was just speaking his fears, you know, into my life.

[Rachel Martin]

But I was just like, that's often what happens.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah, so often. And so I was glad that I didn't listen to that or allow it to affect my eventual trajectory.

[Rachel Martin]

So when you landed in New York, place that experience for me. How old were you? Where were you living? How were you making a living?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah, it was so. It's a little strange. So I. After dc, I went to Tokyo. So I was teaching English and performing at the Tokyo Comedy Store as sort of two part time job jobs to make a living.

[Rachel Martin]

You know that I lived in Japan and taught English. No, I did.

[Natasha Rothwell]

What? Where did you start?

[Rachel Martin]

Although I was not doing comedy in Korean Tokyo, but I also did that.

[Natasha Rothwell]

I was in Sakurashi, like the. In Chiba, Ken. That's like where I was.

[Rachel Martin]

I was in Ibaraki prefecture, which is like two hours north of Tokyo.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Okay, gotcha.

[Rachel Martin]

Anyway, I also had that experience, which is a particular experience, especially for women.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yes, it was super interesting, super unique. And I did it because I didn't wanna show up to New York with an empty cup. Like, I was pretty sheltered growing up and I was such a nerd in college. And so I was like, I wanna choose this adventure, I wanna go and did it for a year. And it was from there I went to New York and my little sister, who's been a New Yorker now for over 20 years, was living there at the time. And there was a full time teaching job that she helped me secur. And it was for being a theater teacher. And yeah, that's how my entry point into New York was teaching.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, I know I have to get back to the cards, but I have to ask one more question about Japan. Because to be in a place that is so for people who haven't been to Japan, there are very few cultures like it anymore because everywhere is heterogeneous and there's so many different kinds of people. And Japan is really homogenous. Homogenous, yeah. And to live there as a woman or a woman of color is a different thing. And you kind of stand out everywhere you go.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Oh, yeah, it was. And I think, I mean, the gag is I went there being like, you know, I'm going here for this experience. And I was really trying to like leave all those parts of me that I didn't want to confront behind me. But when you are in such a homogenous environment, I felt like I was wearing polka dots to a stripes party. You know what I mean? Like, I saw myself so acutely. All of the things I hated about myself, all the things I wanted to change, things that I was just like. It all was kind of brought to the surface. And everywhere I went in Japan as a black woman, I had people stop me for photographs. It was wild. It was wild. It was also when Obama was elected the first time. And so when he won, I just remember riding my bike and people shouting Obama to me. And I was just like waiting.

[Rachel Martin]

Like, you knew him.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah, I owned it. I was like, you know what? Today I am part of the royal. I mean the royal family. That's me.

[Rachel Martin]

It was so funny, that Japan experience. I feel like there's more to plum in there. Okay, we're moving on though. Everyone, we're moving on. Okay. One, two or three?

[Natasha Rothwell]

One.

[Rachel Martin]

One. At what point in your life did you spend the most time alone?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Oh, wow. What point? There's so many. The most time alone. I think, like, I recharge when I'm alone. And obviously I wrote a show about being alone and dying alone, but for Me, there's not like one peak time but I think I learned that about myself in my teens. I would go up to my room, close the door and just be in my own world. And I think protecting that alone time is something I learned later on.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Did that put you separate in a social way from a group of friends or it was fine. You just knew when to pull out and recharge and come back.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Well, I didn't know when to pull out of those situations cause I was a pretty severe people pleaser and being around other people and making them happy and like I would give until there was nothing left. And that was sort of, you know, valued. Right. Martyrdom. And it was kind of praised as like in my family, just like putting others before you. And so I think I noticed the depletion and in those moments of aloneness it was just. It took me a while to click in. But I always from that teen point forward realized I need to find time to do this solo to process and like come back to myself. Yeah, yeah. I betrayed that solitude for a long time because of people pleasing.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. It's an important thing to realize about yourself. It's the same.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

For me, I mean in group housing situations I was always like, I will pay extra for my own room.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yes, yes, yes. Always. I'll pay extra. It's just like what was that? I saw something on social media that was just like Nothing is more foreign than when Ariel says in the Little Mermaid, I wanna be where the people are. I don't wanna be where the people are. I just don't. Arielle can go, I'm good, I'm good.

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[Rachel Martin]

So we're gonna push back for just a second to talk about White Lotus. Congratulations. The White Lotus season three.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

I read in my prep for this conversation that you literally put it on your actual vision board that you wanted to work with Mike White, the creator of the show. Is that true?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah, I will. And I do have a literal vision board, but I had like a list in my phone of people I wanted to work with and he was like, at the top of that list.

[Rachel Martin]

And you're telling me my nice little story isn't true? Mike White was in your notes app?

[Natasha Rothwell]

He was in my notes app, but in my sort of emotional vision board. Yeah, for season one. But season three, I had no idea I was gonna be a part of it or that he would ask me to be a part of the series again. That was a complete surprise. He is such a fantastic writer. He's very much an auteur. He's. And we're very similar in that we're both writers, we're both actors, we're both directors. And to see someone at that level like Cook, I was like, season one, I was like, this is a masterclass. And I feel like he built such an interesting character that I was really nervous to play, if I'm honest, because here it is, there's a character of color in a mostly white environment in a servile position. Like, red flags go up for me because I'm wanting to make sure that I not only take of this character for me playing her, but just for the, you know, the people. I wanting to make sure that, like, I'm not contributing to perpetuating a stereotype. Like, really wanting to see how I could differentiate her from, you know, characters in that legacy. And what I love about this show is that collaboration with Mike in developing Belinda and also just being in his orbit and his proximity because it's just amazing to watch him work. And he's just the nicest guy. Like, he's so wonderful to be around.

[Rachel Martin]

I read that in the spirit of collaboration, it was you who suggested this beautiful scene in the latest season where Belinda's like, on this exchange where she's there in Thailand to learn how they do their stuff in the wellness space. And she's sitting at dinner, and she notices a black couple sitting at another table. And they are clearly guests of the resort, just living their vacation life, having their moment. Talk about why that was important to include and why you advocated for that.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah, I'm obsessed, sort of, with black travel. I remember traveling when I was real, real broke and seeing a black person sitting in first class when I was on my way to coach, and it subconsciously let me know that I should be able to do that, that I could do that, that I belonged in that space. And for me, when I was talking to Mike about that moment and pitching it, I was just like, I want Belinda to have an interaction where she sees the potential of what could be. You know, she's there flirting with being a guest anyway because she's doing her workshop and, you know, classes by day, but she's truly cosplaying what it might be like to be in that space and no one questioning why she's there. And so I get excited when I see black people traveling, especially luxury travel, because I think it's something that is not showed a lot on television. And I think so much of what I've aspired to be and do is a consequence of representation. Like, I saw Nell Carter in Gimme a Break, and I was like, oh, she's a fatty baddie. She's on this show and she's running shit. I want to do that.

[Rachel Martin]

I have not thought about Nell Carter in that show in so long. That was an awesome thing.

[Natasha Rothwell]

It was such an awesome show. But I would not have known to aspire for that if I had not seen her. And I feel travel does the same thing in real life. And so I was so glad that that made it in. I had a longer scene with them, so it was definitely just truncated to the glance because I. And this is Mike's genius. That glance did more than the scene. Oh, it totally did.

[Rachel Martin]

That's what I was just gonna say. Just for those who haven't seen it yet. No, you're not talking to him. You just. There's just, like, a mutual awareness.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. This is a lot. Okay, round two. All right, round two. Insights. Cards are blue for no particular reason, but I think they're pretty.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

One, two, or three? What are you feeling?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Let's start with two.

[Rachel Martin]

Two, two. I have never asked this question. Do you take life as it comes, or do you plan for all outcomes?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah, I. The best examples are just, I'm a chronic overpacker, and it's because I'm preparing for all eventualities. And well, what if this happens? And this could happen? And like, what if this happens? And in addition to my social anxiety, I have regular plain old generalized anxiety. And it necessitates that I prep. Like, what if this happens? Like, I need to make sure that we're covered. And give me an example.

[Rachel Martin]

It's not just clothes. It's not like, oh, I'm gonna need this wedge heel. And I also need this like. Yeah, it's just like ballet slipper.

[Natasha Rothwell]

I'm in my 40s, so it's just like, well, if I have some gastrointestinal issues, I need to make sure I'm prepared for all of that. I got the Tums, I got the Imodium. Like, what do I need?

[Rachel Martin]

Cause they're definitely not gonna have drugstores where you're going.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think it's so crazy that like, I'm planning as if there's no. It's the end of the world. Wherever I'm getting, I'm ready for it. But when I was younger, like my friggin roof, I'm just remembering like field trips, they would call me like the mom because in my little fanny pack I'd have everything, you know, like snacks, snack. So she's just like, just in case. Just in case. And so that kind of like neuroses was definitely rewarded for a long, long time. But yeah, I'm a planner and I like to, I don't like to be beholden to those plans, like when we're talking about like just general life plans. Cause life has gone so many directions. So I'm very like, I have, you know, flexibility when it comes to planning. But it's nice to be able to.

[Rachel Martin]

That doesn't have to throw you. Like if you have a plan and all of a sudden something happens, it torpedoes it. You gotta pivot. You're pretty good at that part.

[Natasha Rothwell]

I'm pretty good at pivoting, but it will throw me.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Do you know what I mean?

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Like my adhd, it's just like, this is the plan, this is what we're doing. And if that goes sideways, it will send me into emotional turmoil. But like, improv is in my DNA. It's what I did for a living for a long time. So, like being able to pivot in a moment's notice and, you know, with.

[Rachel Martin]

A bit of elegance, expand your life.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yes, I do that all the time, but not without some internal frustration.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, I mean, that's you know, it's not bad. It's not bad to be the planning girl. Okay, Three more cards. 1, 2 or 3?

[Natasha Rothwell]

3.

[Rachel Martin]

3. What do you feel like you're constantly chasing?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Oh, God.

[Rachel Martin]

You got a skip and a flip if you want to employ or just go for it.

[Natasha Rothwell]

I'm gonna flip.

[Rachel Martin]

You're gonna flip this one.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Oh, I'm flipping.

[Rachel Martin]

Constantly chasing. Constantly. Seems a little melodramatic. Doesn't. Constantly chasing. You would think I have answers to all these questions. I actually don't. This is real spontaneous.

[Natasha Rothwell]

I'm, like, searching, too, so we can both be searching.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. Yeah. Constantly chasing. I mean. Well, this is quite revealing, isn't it? Am I gonna say that I. Sure, why not? Validation. Yeah. Yeah. Not quite feeling. You know, I didn't have any. I was a journalist for many years and got my dream job, and I hosted this big NPR News show, but I just had a whole lot of imposter syndrome. I came from a small town in Idaho. I didn't have any journalists in my family. And so I was always. I always really wanted to be validated by my peers and by my industry, and I felt like I was always really desperate for that and still find myself in that place.

[Natasha Rothwell]

That's so relatable. Yeah, that resonates with me. Heavy. I think mine is worthiness. Yeah. It's been elusive, I think, for as long as I can remember, honestly. And it's like the barnacle that sticks on you in, you know, your tweens and teens. It just. It persists. And I think I'm actively, you know, attacking it. And I think now those thoughts, although they persist, I can acknowledge them and let them go and not identify with them. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. Thank you for that.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah, thank you.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. Three more cards in this round. 1, 2 or 3?

[Natasha Rothwell]

1.

[Rachel Martin]

1. What does age teach you about love? Which I guess is just another way of saying, what does time teach you about love?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah. My parents celebrated 47 years being married on the 23rd of February. And it's a long time. It's a long time. And they're so much like they're in love. And I have had a front seat to their love for 44 years. And it's changed the expression of that love. And I don't know why I'm getting emotional. Just gonna take a second. It's tears of joy, honestly.

[Rachel Martin]

Tell me.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Seeing my parents love at this age, it's beautiful. You know, they go to each other's appointments and they know each other's meds. It's the Cutest thing. And my mom forgets. It's just they call BAE and Day are their nicknames for each other. My dad's David and my mom's Sharon, but baby. So BAE and Day. And she'll be like, no, Day, you can't have that. You know, like, you put that down, you're allergic. And it's a beautiful thing to see that expression of love over time.

[Rachel Martin]

And what do you take from what they're teaching you by example? Like, what have you learned from them as you watch what can't have been an easy marriage? Because marriage is not easy and partnership's not easy over time.

[Natasha Rothwell]

No.

[Rachel Martin]

So are there things they demonstrated for you that you find that you apply in your own life, in your own relationships?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah, there's just quitting is not on the table. You know, there's the stick to itiveness. And, you know, they have grown together, you know, and have accepted all of those versions of each other. And my dad had a very demanding job in the Air Force, and my mom was raising four children. And, you know, there was mutual respect and understanding and levity. Like, they played all the time. And I think, too, it's just shown me kind of the diversity of the expressions of love, you know, like, my dad is, you know, losing his eyesight in one of his eyes, and my mom just got her knee replaced. And I'm always joking. I'm like, you guys don't make a whole person unless you're together. Like, he's got one eye, you got one knee. And I'm just like, what is going on? So it's, there's like, you know, I see just how ordinary and extraordinary their love is.

[Rachel Martin]

I love that.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Foreign.

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[Rachel Martin]

All right, round three. Round three. Beliefs 1, 2 or 3?

[Natasha Rothwell]

3.

[Rachel Martin]

How have your feelings about God changed over time?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Oh, he's gotten so much bigger. I think that he exists for you.

[Rachel Martin]

Or it exists for you.

[Natasha Rothwell]

It exists for me. I think, again, having grown up in the church, I think I've pivoted from religion to a spiritual practice and am no longer sort of bound by specific tenets. That worked for a lot of old white dudes, you know what I mean? For me, it's about a personal relationship with something bigger than myself, and I feel like my art is an expression of that. And I think when I was much younger, you know, I was very devout. I was trying to do it right.

[Rachel Martin]

Were you?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah. And then I think, you know, my radicalization happened when I found theater. You know, honestly, it was just a playground where I can do and be and explore all the things that may not have been permitted or sanctioned, you know, and it just. That's what I mean by bigger. It just sort of, like, opened up my eyes to sort of, like, the beautiful sort of textured landscape and tapestry of just humanity and, like, what it means to be alive and what things are beautiful and worthy and to tell the truth, you know, on the page and in the moment when I'm acting. And that's been such, like, a. Yeah. An expansive process.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you ever wander into churches anymore?

[Natasha Rothwell]

I haven't in a long time. I haven't in a long time. But I think for me, I think that's also the growth of my perception. It's not the place. The place is in me. And so that has been the freeing thing of, like, there is community there, you know, and my parents still go, and it's a huge part of their lives, and it makes them whole, it makes them happy, and I love that for them. And I think for me, it was realizing that the location is interior. It's inside of me. It lives inside of me. And I return to that temple now as much as I can. And that's been the aha. Where it's just like. It's not feeling guilt. Oh, I haven't been to church in a while. It's like, oh, I haven't been with myself. In a while, I hear, like, a.

[Rachel Martin]

Contrarian voice because it's still my nature, like, in my head, saying, doesn't that equal, like, worshiping yourself? Like, when you center yourself so much that it no longer becomes, like, external or accountability that a religious structure holds you to. But if it's just about you, then you get to call all the shots, and it becomes kind of an egocentric exercise.

[Natasha Rothwell]

I think you, for me, I look inward in order to show up outwardly.

[Rachel Martin]

Mm.

[Natasha Rothwell]

So it's a place where I can audit who I am and who I am becoming in relationship to other people. So it's a quite a community experience to turn inward, because for me, at least, I do think that those are the relics of my upbringing that influence how I commune with myself. Because I do think, like, you know, baby bath water. You don't wanna throw the whole thing out. So for me, the principles and qualities of my upbringing in the church that resonate with me still are a part of my own communion with God and with, you know, spirit, the universe, whatever you want to call it. And I think for me, in college, I remember having this moment where I was like, I don't want to believe in anything just because my parents did. I want to believe in it for myself. So let's get digging, you know?

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

I've talked about this before. Oh, everyone wants me to ask you to scoot a little more in the chair.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Oh, I'm sliding down. I got emotional and went into my safe space. I sunk down into the deep. I'll sit up.

[Rachel Martin]

So after my parents died, my mom died a long time ago of cancer. My dad died, like, three years ago. And they were the ones who kind of built this spiritual architecture for me. Like, they were both very religious. And so it felt like there was a scaffolding there that I was supposed to build in myself. But while they were alive, I just kind of just dealt with the scaffolding and didn't build it myself. And then when they were gone, I was like, oh, damn it. All I have is the scaffolding, and it's sort of falling down because I never made it my own.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

And. Yeah. And that's a big deal.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah. I think that, like. And faith and doubt necessitate each other, Right?

[Rachel Martin]

Totally.

[Natasha Rothwell]

And so I think that, like, I've tried to be as curious as possible about all things, all spirituality. And like you said, like, find those pieces of the scaffolding that hold me up. Because I think ultimately, that is what that communion is about, is, like, how are you Edifying yourself and nurturing yourself and building yourself up. And so, yeah, I love that you're on this late in life expedition.

[Rachel Martin]

You know, we all gotta keep moving forward.

[Natasha Rothwell]

We just gotta keep moving forward.

[Rachel Martin]

God. Speaking of which, we got three new cards. And Sasha, we've got more to do. I love it. Two or three.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Let's do one.

[Rachel Martin]

One. Okay. Well, this is related. Is there anything in your life that feels like praying? Maybe praying.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Maybe praying.

[Rachel Martin]

I don't know if you do that.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Anything that feels like praying, it comes to, like, the art. For me, I feel like if our definition of prayer is sort of communing with a higher power, that is my creative process. There are moments where I. And this happened a lot on Insecure. I think it's related to improv. You tap into something that's bigger than you when you're improvising, and you're in that pocket. You know, we would do takes as written, and then we would do takes that. Because they knew improv was kind of. I was kind of a hired hand for that. And I wouldn't even remember having done those things because I was so in it, in the moment, in the character. And so it felt very much like I was able to channel the creative in that moment and commune with something bigger. And it sounds like. I don't know, it's cringe to say it because it's just like, ooh, you know, how does an eloquent dick joke equal praying? But sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes, girl. Sometimes.

[Rachel Martin]

Chef's kiss. Chef's kiss. Okay, it's the last one. The last one. One, two, or three. Whatcha feeling?

[Natasha Rothwell]

I'm feeling like two.

[Rachel Martin]

Like two. Okay. Do you think there is order in the universe, or is it all chaos?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Six, one half dozen the other. You know, I think it's. Nothing's planned out or scripted. I don't believe that. But I do think that you don't.

[Rachel Martin]

So there are limits on the idea of God, that there isn't some predestined God's will that's kind of running the show.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Well, I think it's. I don't think that will is fixed. Do you know what I mean? I think it's. Yeah. I think for me, there is an order, but there's also free will. Right. And I think it's so that chaos is at play with the order. That's why I'm just like, they both are true. And I think we hold both of those things, you know, or at least I do. And I think that with every decision you make, you're sort of forging a path, and sometime that path is parallel, I think, with sort of whatever the cosmic plan is. But I do think that things can run amok. I mean, we're in the middle of running amok right now. You know what I mean? Things can go sideways. But I do think that there are lessons to be learned. And I do think. I feel, and I don't know, I'm curious if you do too, that when you feel like you're on the quote unquote path, there's kind of a synchronicity that happens where you're like, you feel in flow, you feel like things are working out. And that to me suggests, you know, that there's something larger at play.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. And if it feels chaotic, that's why you pack a full suitcase.

[Natasha Rothwell]

That's right. You plan for every outcome. That's right.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, Natasha, we end the show the same way every time.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

The trip in our memory. Time machine. So in the time machine, you pick one moment from your past that you would like to revisit. You do not want to change anything about the moment. You just want to linger there a little longer. What moment do you choose?

[Natasha Rothwell]

I'm thinking specifically, I went on a trip to Greece and I was there with, like, some friends and. And I just remember floating in the pool in this two piece, and at one point, I took. At one point I took my top off.

[Rachel Martin]

As you do.

[Natasha Rothwell]

As you do. And I was just kind of floating there, and I was at such peace, but it was also peace with my body and myself. It was just kind of like a freedom. And this is coming from someone who, like, would wear giant T shirts over a one piece, you know, at the community pool when I was younger. So to be at this pool, and I should clarify, this wasn't a public pool. This was at the place we were staying. My courage is not that far up to go to nude beach, but in the privacy of this place. We were staying in this quiet moment by myself. And I was floating in this little donut and just had my eyes closed and I was just drifting and I was just like, had no worry in the world, but I was just so in my body, which I struggle with a lot. And I just was just like, had, you know, tits out, a beer in my hand. It was bliss. I would not change a thing about that moment.

[Rachel Martin]

I love it.

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Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Natasha Rothwell. She is now in season three of White Lotus, which you can see on hbo. I'm so happy for all your success, lady. And it was just such a pleasure to get to do this with you.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Thank you. Likewise.

[Rachel Martin]

If you like this conversation with Natasha Rothwell, check out our episode with Michelle Buteau. They are both super successful comedic actors with loads of confidence that they've had to cultivate in the face of some of the same kinds of barriers. This episode was produced by Chris Benderev and edited by Rommel Wood. It was mastered by Patrick Murray. Our supervising editor is Dave Blanchard. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni. Our theme music is by Ramtin Arablouei. You can reach out to [e-mail] we're going to shuffle the deck and we will be back with more next week. Talk to you then.

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