Ira Glass plays a nicer version of himself on the radio

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin: Ira Glass Plays a Nicer Version of Himself on the Radio

Released on November 28, 2024, Wild Card with Rachel Martin presents a deeply engaging and introspective conversation with Ira Glass, the legendary host of NPR's "This American Life." Recognized as one of the Top 10 Podcasts of 2024 by The New York Times, this episode diverges from traditional interview formats, inviting Ira to explore personal and profound aspects of his life through a unique deck of conversation-controlling cards.

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1. Introduction: Meeting Ira Glass

Rachel Martin sets the stage by describing her anticipation and nervousness in meeting Ira Glass at Podcast Movement in Washington, D.C. She highlights Ira’s reputation in the audio world and shares her initial surprise at his approachable demeanor. The dynamic between host and guest promises a candid and heartfelt dialogue.

“Ira was thoughtful and funny and really open and honest.” (00:54)

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2. Early Independence and the Magic Act

Ira Glass reflects on his childhood independence, revealing unique experiences that shaped his character. From an early age, Ira cultivated a sense of autonomy, notably through his passion for magic. At just 11 or 12 years old, he taught himself magic tricks, booked birthday parties, and even connected with professional magicians in Baltimore.

“At 11 years old... I decided I was going to be a magician and perform at children's birthday parties.” (03:50)

This early venture into magic not only fostered his entrepreneurial spirit but also helped him navigate social interactions, laying the groundwork for his future in storytelling and radio.

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3. Interactions with Strangers: Seeking Connection

When asked about moments when strangers made him feel loved, Ira offers a nuanced perspective. He explains that while he appreciates compliments about his work, such interactions don’t deeply affect him emotionally due to his inherent self-doubt.

“I do really love the thought of, like, I'm just gonna wander through. ... when I do, it really feels like I've won in a casino.” (08:44)

Ira emphasizes his enjoyment of connecting with strangers, likening spontaneous interviews to a gamble where the occasional meaningful interaction brings him immense satisfaction.

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4. Public Persona vs. Real Self: Navigating Perceptions

A pivotal moment in the conversation arises when Ira addresses how he presents himself publicly versus his authentic self. He admits to portraying a more empathetic and pleasant persona on the radio, contrasting it with his real-life experiences of fatigue, irritability, and a penchant for cursing.

“I contain that sort of empathetic people pleasing person who I'm playing on the radio. That's most of who I am.” (13:40)

This dichotomy stems from his earlier struggles with social interactions, which inadvertently honed his skills in creating intimate and engaging narratives for his audience.

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5. Reflections on Aging: The Inexorable Passage of Time

Ira candidly discusses his perceptions of aging, highlighting the unavoidable reality of growing older. He shares a personal revelation from his 30s, where he recognized the persistent fatigue and the contempt he initially felt towards the idea of aging.

“The most obvious thing about it, which is you really can't negotiate with it at all.” (15:55)

This acceptance of aging ties into his broader reflections on legacy and personal fulfillment.

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6. Understanding Emotions: Sadness and Worry

Delving deeper into his emotional landscape, Ira explores his predominant feelings of sadness and worry. He connects these emotions to his childhood experiences, particularly his relationship with his parents and a sense of isolation.

“Each of my parents were like totally fine parents... I grew up feeling very alone.” (18:40)

Ira acknowledges his journey in overcoming unequal friendships and improving his social skills, which not only enhanced his personal life but also enriched his professional endeavors in creating authentic connections on his show.

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7. Legacy and Mortality: Embracing Impermanence

In a bold departure from societal emphasis on legacy, Ira expresses a rather dismissive attitude towards leaving a lasting mark. He vehemently states his disinterest in how future generations might perceive him, emphasizing his focus on the present.

“Fuck legacy. Fuck people of the future. ... I'm making a show for people who hear it now.” (24:47)

This perspective is juxtaposed with his frequent contemplation of mortality, a theme that adds depth to his understanding of existence and purpose.

“I think about it all the time. ... I like existing.” (26:39)

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8. The Memory Time Machine: Reliving a Pivotal Moment

Concluding the interview, Ira selects a cherished memory from his past—the preparation and execution of his bar mitzvah magic act. This moment encapsulates his blend of nostalgia, personal growth, and the intricate dynamics of family interactions.

“I want to go back to that or like a dinner that the family would go out to this restaurant called the Pimlico Hotel...” (33:22)

This reflection serves as a poignant end to a conversation rich with vulnerability, self-awareness, and the continual pursuit of meaningful connections.

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Conclusion: A Candid Exchange of Stories and Insights

Rachel Martin and Ira Glass wrap up the episode with mutual appreciation for the shared experience. The interaction underscores the essence of Wild Card—diving beyond surface-level conversations to unearth the profound and often unspoken truths that define us.

“I enjoyed it.” (35:31)

Produced by Lee Hale and Rommel Wood, and mastered by Gilly Moon, this episode exemplifies the show's commitment to authentic and engaging storytelling, leaving listeners with a deeper understanding of Ira Glass’s multifaceted personality.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• “I think I play a much nicer, more empathetic person on the radio than I am in real life.” — Ira Glass (00:25)
• “At 11 years old... I decided I was going to be a magician and perform at children's birthday parties.” — Ira Glass (03:50)
• “I do really love the thought of, like, I'm just gonna wander through... when I do, it really feels like I've won in a casino.” — Ira Glass (08:44)
• “I contain that sort of empathetic people pleasing person who I'm playing on the radio. That's most of who I am.” — Ira Glass (13:40)
• “Fuck legacy. Fuck people of the future. ... I'm making a show for people who hear it now.” — Ira Glass (24:47)
• “I think about it all the time. ... I like existing.” — Ira Glass (26:39)
• “I enjoyed it.” — Ira Glass (35:31)

---

This episode offers a rare glimpse into the personal convictions and emotional intricacies of one of radio's most influential figures, making it a standout installment in the Wild Card series.

Transcript

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[Rachel Martin]

What is something you think people misunderstand about you?

[Ira Glass]

I don't think people misunderstand me. Like, I don't know. I know what I think people misunderst. Okay. I think I play a much nicer, more empathetic person on the radio than I am in real life.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest chooses questions at random from a deck of cards. Questions about the memories, insights, and beliefs that have shaped them.

[Ira Glass]

In junior high school, I remember discovering you could just ask people questions, and they'll open up to you, and then they feel close to you.

[Rachel Martin]

My guest this week is Ira Glass.

[Ira Glass]

And I remember just doing it as a technique to, like, just get through the awkwardness of social interaction.

[Rachel Martin]

Near the end of the summer, I was asked to interview Ira Glass at this podcast convention called Podcast Movement. It probably goes without saying, but Ira Glass is legendary in my audio world. He hosts one of the most famous and successful radio shows and podcasts of all time. We'd never actually met before, so I was super nervous and a smidge intimidated. And when we finally did meet backstage, I was actually surprised because he seemed a little intimidated, too. Not by me, to be clear, but by the format of what was gonna go down in this live version of our show. He was about to be asked all these really personal questions in front of a really big audience. And as you'll hear, revealing things about himself didn't come naturally when he was younger. It was something Ira had to learn to do, but I gotta say, it wound up being the most lovely time. Of course it did. Ira was thoughtful and funny and really open and honest. He is also skilled at cursing. Okay. So consider yourself warned. So here it is, our special episode with Ira Glass taped live at Podcast Movement here in Washington, D.C. all right, so there are some rules in this game. You can skip a question. Okay. If you're just not jiving with a question, you could just be like, skip, and then I'll replace it with another one from the deck. Okay. We do have an actual deck of cards, ladies and gentlemen, right here. You also have another tool at your disposal. You get a flip. Okay, so the flip, you can put me on the spot, and I will answer the question before you do so. How do you feel?

[Ira Glass]

I feel okay.

[Rachel Martin]

I feel okay.

[Ira Glass]

I've heard the show.

[Rachel Martin]

I think okay is good.

[Ira Glass]

I feel okay.

[Rachel Martin]

I should say a very important detail I left out. I know you're going to care about this. There's a prize at the end.

[Ira Glass]

I've heard the show, so I know the prize is always the same. And it's more like a participation prize than a prize.

[Rachel Martin]

You have to really win it to really bring it.

[Ira Glass]

Has any. Has any contestant ever lost the prize?

[Rachel Martin]

No, but that's because they're all really good. Okay, these are the first three cards. I hold them up, and then Ira picks randomly. Okay. So he can pick one, two, or three. Ira, what do you got?

[Ira Glass]

Card number one.

[Rachel Martin]

One. Okay, question number one. Where did you get to feel independent as a kid?

[Ira Glass]

I got to feel independent pretty early on. Like, actually, my parents, the way they ran our house, my sisters and I were pretty separate from each other, and we're off doing our own things from a really young age. And then one of the early things I did that was very independent was I decided at 11 years old, or maybe 12, that I was going to be a magician and perform at children's birthday parties. And I was in the Baltimore County Public Library. And in the library, there was, like, a shelf of books on magic. And I couldn't believe that that was just out in public. And you could learn those things and from books on magic. And then a little magic kit that I had been given for Hanukkah one year, I constructed an act and took out ads in the Baltimore Jewish Times and started booking parties. And then an actual professional magician called me up and is like, who are you? And then he was a really sweet guy, and he was like. Cause all the magicians know each other in Baltimore and everywhere, actually. And he's like, let me. He invited me downtown to downtown Baltimore, where there was a magic store, Yogi's Magic Mart, which was this place, like out of a novel. It was like, you'd go up these creaky stairs to this place, and. And they were like, all illusions, but also card tricks. And the old magicians would take you into the back room and show you how to do the trick. And it was like, he brought me to this whole community of people. So I was doing. So I was booking parties, and my parents would drive me to the parties. And I did that through my early teenage years.

[Rachel Martin]

That's amazing. When I've asked this question before, people will be like, oh, when I started babysitting for the first time, or My parents let me take the car and I filled it up for gas. And you're like, no. When I taught myself how to be a magician and started my own business.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, yeah. I think my history as a kid was. I remember, like, in sixth grade, I convinced other kids to put on a production of youf're a Good Man, Charlie Brown. Because we had seen it downtown at the Morris Mechanic Theater in Baltimore. And we just thought that would be fun and you could get the sheet music for it. And we didn't have a script. We just wrote down what we remembered from the show. And then I cast myself as Charlie Brown because I. Which is basically the model I did when I started my own radio show too, actually. Like, let's put on a show. I will cast myself as the lead.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. Three new cards. Pick a card. One, two or three?

[Ira Glass]

Two, two.

[Rachel Martin]

I love this one. What's a moment when a stranger made you feel loved?

[Ira Glass]

Is that a thing that happens? A stranger made you feel loved? I have the experience sometimes where people come up to me and tell me that they really love the radio show and the work I've done. And that has no effect on me at all. Like, it really doesn't. And I'll be with my cousins or my girlfriend or something, and somebody will come up and they'll say something really nice and they'll walk away. And my girlfriend or my cousins or my sister will say like, isn't that so nice? And I'd be like, that has no effect. That does not touch me at all.

[Rachel Martin]

So you.

[Ira Glass]

So now this is like, because I have a well of self doubt and whatever makes you see yourself as not so great that's deep enough that no number of people walking up to me can ever penetrate the force field, the depth of that pool. And so I understand that in that situation, my job is to be gracious and to say thank you and to engage them. And I do. And it's totally fine. It's totally pleasant. Like, it's totally nice to know that, like, I'm making a thing with a lot of other people. It's not just me and people like it. And it makes me feel like I get to keep my job and everything's gonna be fine. And like. And it's better to have that than to have nothing. And it's at the perfect level where it doesn't happen that often. So when it happens, you think like, oh, that's so nice. But. But it doesn't touch me ever inside because of how I'm built.

[Rachel Martin]

Personally, do you like interactions with strangers?

[Ira Glass]

I do.

[Rachel Martin]

You're a person who talks to people on the plane randomly.

[Ira Glass]

I'll talk to people on the plane, but I have a rule that I only do it while the plane's landing.

[Rachel Martin]

When the plane is landing. Right. Because there's a defined period of time.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

You know that there's an end.

[Ira Glass]

I do it all the time. But, yeah, I like talking to strangers. Like, I'm somebody who. There's a kind of reporting that a lot of people don't like. But I really love where you just walk up to strangers in Times Square and you try to get a decent interview out of them.

[Rachel Martin]

Hate it so much.

[Ira Glass]

See, I love that because to me, that's like walking into a casino and, like. And nine out of ten times the interviews are going to be actively bad or lead nowhere, but the one time out of 10 when it's great, it's so great, and it's so much sweeter for the fact that it's random. I spent the weekend at the Iowa State Fair, and I have four other producers on my staff who are there also. And some of them do not love this. But I really love the thought of, like, I'm just gonna wander through. I'm gonna go from booth to booth. I'm just gonna talk to people and just try to, like, connect to them and find something to talk about that has a meaning and will amuse me and them. And when I do, it really feels like. It really feels like I've won in a casino. And I also love gambling, so I know what that is.

[Rachel Martin]

But it also clearly fills you up not to get all mushy here.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah. Because I like that connection with any. Like, in an interview, when I feel like. When an interview goes well, I feel like. And I'm really understanding them, and they're understanding me, and we're really getting along. Like, I find that it's really hard not to kind of fall in love with the other person a little bit. Like, if it's really going well, it gives you a feeling. And I really love that feeling. And I do really feel a connection, but that is different than feeling loved. So your question. Do you have interactions with strangers where you feel loved? No, I don't feel loved. No, I feel love. I didn't mean to point my finger at you there. And that was very aggressive.

[Rachel Martin]

I know. And then I blame me. I know.

[Ira Glass]

Literally, like, I know. Yeah, no, sorry. That was very blaming, and I apologize for that.

[Rachel Martin]

After the break, Ira talks about the difference between real life Ira and the Ira he plays on Mike.

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[Rachel Martin]

Three new cards. They're blue now. 1, 2 or 3?

[Ira Glass]

3.

[Rachel Martin]

3.

[Ira Glass]

Oh, is there a theory that when I hear the show, I feel like I always hear people pick the ones disproportionately? Is there a theory on what happens in the ones and the twos and the threes? And are they different?

[Rachel Martin]

No. I've tried to game this out because I obviously have favorites. Like when I'm like, oh please, big do. It's so good. So I've tried. And then I try to play. There's no.

[Ira Glass]

You have favorites.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, totally.

[Ira Glass]

Oh, well. With these three, I want you to pick your favorite.

[Rachel Martin]

You pick one about doing this. Dealer's choice. Really?

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. Okay. These are all three really good. All right, I'm doing this one.

[Ira Glass]

Which number is it?

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, it's one. It's one.

[Ira Glass]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

What is something you think people misunderstand about you?

[Ira Glass]

I don't think people misunderstand me. Like, I don't know. I know what I think people misunderstand. I think I play a much nicer, more empathetic person on the radio than I am in real life.

[Rachel Martin]

That's what I was looking for. And I also don't believe it. I also don't believe it. You're not a nice, empathetic person.

[Ira Glass]

To a point. To the point where I could play it on the radio.

[Rachel Martin]

But do you get in interactions with people who don't know you, who project things on you and then it feels sad to be your actual self? I mean, there's like public hourglass and then normal hourglass. How far apart are the two?

[Ira Glass]

I contain that sort of empathetic people pleasing person who I'm playing on the radio. That's most of who I am. But I'm a person under weekly deadlines and I get freaked out and tired and irritable and don't want to talk to people and get annoyed. And I curse a lot in real life. And I really love cursing. So, like, I am that person, but I'm more than that person. I remember there was a thing that happened in the very early days of our radio show where I'm gonna hesitate telling the story. Cause it's a little bit like, a little like, I don't know, a little self. Something congratulatory or something.

[Rachel Martin]

That's okay.

[Ira Glass]

But the very first live show we did, one of the first live shows we did was a town hall in New York City and the New York Observer. This is like we'd only been in there for a couple of years. And the New York observer wrote an article coming to the show. And the article was just about. There were a lot of. There were a lot of women who had crushes on me over the radio. And they did an article about this in the New York observer. And they interviewed my senior producer at the time, Julie Snyder. And Julie said this thing about the fact that that was happening. She said at the time, our staff was me and three women. She said. She said, you know, look, I love my husband, but I'd love him a lot more if every word he said was edited by three women. That would be the difference between the public version and the private version.

[Rachel Martin]

That's pretty good. Okay, we're remarkably on track, so I'm going to do another dealer's choice. I would not normally do this, but since we have a little wiggle room, I'm going to ask a second quick. You gave me license. You said dealer's choice. I'm going to ask a second question on here. What have you found surprising about getting older?

[Ira Glass]

What I found surprising about getting older is the most obvious thing about it, which is you really can't negotiate with it at all.

[Rachel Martin]

It's you just irritating, isn't it?

[Ira Glass]

You just can't. Like when you turn. I'm over 60 years old. I'm over 65, and I am 65. And there's just no denying that you're old. And there was an earlier phase of it where when I was in my 30s, I remember I was at my desk at WBEZ and it was like 10 o'clock at night and I was working and a feeling came over me and I was like, what is this? What is this? Am I tired? And I remember thinking, like, is this what it's going to be like to get old? I'll be at the office at 9:00 and I'll be tired. And I just remember the contempt I had.

[Rachel Martin]

I can't believe you're that old. Until that feeling struck you, I was like 23. And I'm like, it's 9:00. I'm so tired.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, I can be kind of a tank.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, so we have three more cards. One, two or three.

[Ira Glass]

I want you to pick the one that you most want me to answer.

[Rachel Martin]

We're not doing the game, Ira.

[Ira Glass]

All right, fine. Pick two. Number two.

[Rachel Martin]

What emotion do you understand better than all the others?

[Ira Glass]

I've heard you ask this of people on the show. And the emotion I experience the most is a kind of sadness and worry. And it comes so inappropriately at times when it just shouldn't even be there. Just Feel like a detached, sad, worried feeling. And I've really been trying to control it and change it, but I think there's a part of me going back to when I was a kid. I was kind of a loner kid and very much identified with Charlie Brown, which is how I ended up putting on a production of youf're a Good man of Charlie Brown. And like, when you're a kid, like, I think a lot of kids carry a lot of sadness in them and feel sad a lot of the time. And one of the great things that was great about the Peanuts comic strip is that if you were a kid, it gave you a place to locate that that you could connect to. And that strip was a real comfort for me. But left unattended, that is the feeling that I go back to by default. And I have to actively stop myself from doing it.

[Rachel Martin]

So sometimes this feels weird because when I do this show, it's just me and another person in the studio. And now all of you are getting to witness this. But I'm still going to ask the question. What do you understand to be the root of that sadness?

[Ira Glass]

I mean, part of it is just disposition. And then part of it was that in different ways, if you're going to get very real about it. Each of my parents were like totally fine parents, like totally lovely middle class parents who looked after us. But my dad was kind of like 1960s era dad who wasn't around that much. And when he was around. He was kind of, like exhausted and a little irritable. So he was a distant figure. And my mom was a therapist who was either very, very present for us or deeply not present at all and kind of in the room, but not engaging with us. Like, she would be on the phone talking to her friends. She'd be doing other things. And so she was a sort of intermittent force of being present and just. I grew up feeling very alone.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you think that's why you do what you do, because of what we talked about earlier is that you. You're able to create intimacy with strangers for your job in a way that maybe you didn't get?

[Ira Glass]

I wasn't so great at making. I wasn't. So I didn't have, like, great social skills and. And like, it didn't. Like, I didn't feel comfortable with other kids, like, immediately or easily. And so I. I remember consciously in junior high school, I remember like, discovering, like, you could just ask people questions and they'll open up to you and then they feel close to you. And I remember just doing it as a technique to just get through the awkwardness of social interaction. And people would open up to me and they'd feel very close to me. And interestingly, it was kind of messed up because I wouldn't open up to them as much. And so I didn't feel close to them. So I had a whole bunch of middle level friends who felt very close to me because I would get them to open up, but I didn't feel close to them at all. And honestly, that's a kind of thing I actually actively had to train myself out of doing and start talking about myself more when I got into my 20s and 30s, because I felt like I was in all these unequal friendships. And I think the fact that in a way, I was such a moron at normal social interaction gave me the skills to do the job I do now. But also the kind of story and aesthetic that we make on this American Life, it's built around a kind of intimacy in the way the interviews happen and the kind of connection I make with the people and the other reporters and producers make with the people on the air. And I think only a person who had trouble connecting to people in their actual life would go to the trouble to invent that format. You know, like, the fact that I ended up making that is a direct result of the fact that it was always so hard for me and the fact that the connection, you know, means something to me, that I feel something from it that I get something from it that I have a hard time sometimes getting from other people in real life or used to anyway. Yeah, like that's a big part of where the show comes from.

[Rachel Martin]

That's what I was going to ask. Has it gotten better in your actual life?

[Ira Glass]

Oh, much better.

[Rachel Martin]

You can say things to people. You can create a two way street.

[Ira Glass]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Like all the time. Yeah, like that's, that's something like I consciously tried to fix and I feel like I really did fix. But again, like, you never completely fix something about yourself. You always have to remind yourself sometimes to like go back to where you are. But no, like I'm very close to lots of people.

[Rachel Martin]

You have friends, Ira Glass is basically.

[Ira Glass]

What I'm asking when I have time to see them. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Lots of people I love.

[Rachel Martin]

In our final round, Ira talks about what pushes him to keep doing good work. That's coming up after the break.

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[Rachel Martin]

Three new cards. They're red. Now the cards.

[Ira Glass]

Could you work your mic a little closer?

[Rachel Martin]

Can I do what?

[Ira Glass]

Can you work your mic a little closer like this? Just a little closer than you were.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. He's producing me that's fine. I mean, if you're going to have a guest produce your show, you want it to be you. Okay. One, two or three?

[Ira Glass]

Okay, I could pick a card, but would you prefer to pick the one that you want to most ask?

[Rachel Martin]

Let's do both. You pick a card and then I'll pick another card.

[Ira Glass]

Great. I'll pick number two.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. Do you think about the legacy that you will leave behind?

[Ira Glass]

No, I do not. Yeah, I think that's bullshit. I don't care at all about that. Fuck legacy. Fuck people of the future. Fuck people who will be al after all of us are dead. Fuck the people who will be alive, having lunch and seeing movies. Fuck them. I hate them. I'm not making a radio show for that. I'm making a show for people who hear it now. And when it's done and we don't make it anymore, it's perfectly fine for it to vanish into the mists of time, like everything will. And it's fine. If that happens very quickly, it doesn't matter. That's not what this show is for.

[Rachel Martin]

I love that answer.

[Ira Glass]

And people who feel otherwise, I think they're really small.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, I asked Nikki Giovanni that question. Poet acclaimed, awesome woman. And she basically said the same thing. And she told me that she is often engaged with people who think a lot about their legacy and they actually plan the stamps that America is going to make with their visage on them. And she was like, screw them.

[Ira Glass]

That's sad. It's so sad. If that's how you like, it's just a sad person. That's pathetic. Unless you're like President Obama, you know what I mean? Unless you're an actual historic figure, like, that's inappropriate for him to think about his legacy. Like, but he's fucking the first black president of the United States. He should think about that.

[Rachel Martin]

You know, sometimes we talk about, like, retiring cards when someone's given the perfect answer. And I think this one just went bye bye. I'm going to ask one. How often do you think about dying?

[Ira Glass]

I think about it all the time.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah?

[Ira Glass]

Yeah. And always have. Since I was seven when my Uncle Lenny went to Vietnam. And I was really upset about that. And he finally. He did not die in Vietnam. He just died this last year.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Ira Glass]

And no, don't be sorry. He survived Vietnam and had kids and grandkids. But, like, I was very scared that he was going to die. And then I was very certain that since the Vietnam War had been going on my entire life, that I also would be sent to Vietnam. And I was certain, since I was kind of a pudgy, unathletic kid who hated sports, that watching Vietnam on TV seemed like a lot of running and a lot of things I was really bad at. And I was certain I was going to be really bad at Vietnam, and I was certain that I was going to be one of the people who died. And so I would try to picture that at night, and I would lie in bed as a little kid and try to picture what it means for the whole universe to go on forever without me in it. And I got pretty good at that. And so I've always carried that with me.

[Rachel Martin]

And is that unsettling, thinking about the universe without you?

[Ira Glass]

Of course it's unsettling. Yeah. It's non existence. I don't even like going to sleep. Like, I don't even, like. No, it's true. I don't like going to sleep because I don't like the idea of being unconscious. To me, it's just like. It's just. It's just. I can't believe it's the system. Like, I really, like, that's really our system is that we just have to be unconscious for like five or six or eight hours every day. Like, we literally would just, like, we would be dead for, like, we would not exist. For, like, we would stop existing. The most basic thing, this is me.

[Rachel Martin]

A contrary answer to your other notion about legacy. Like, isn't it entwined? Like, you just don't exist anymore? You're just gone.

[Ira Glass]

I know, but I like existing.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, yeah, I get it. Okay, These are the last three cards. You better get it right, otherwise you don't win the prize.

[Ira Glass]

I would be so excited if I would be your first guest who didn't win the prize. And since we only have very little time left, maybe I won't win the.

[Rachel Martin]

Prize I want you to win. Okay. One. Two or three?

[Ira Glass]

Three.

[Rachel Martin]

Three. Okay. Oh, interesting. I feel like you're not going to like this question, but I'm going to ask it anyway because it is what showed up. Don't make fun of it.

[Ira Glass]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

What truth guides your life more than any other? Be real.

[Ira Glass]

I mean, the actual truth is a little embarrassing to say, which is why I'm pausing and closing my eyes. But now I'll open them, and that is that I've never thought about it this way, and I've never put it to myself this way, and I've never had this thought before, but I think it's true. Is That I feel like I'm in a. I feel like I'm trying to. I'm trying to. I'm like, it's. I don't know the best way to put this, but it's like, I'm trying to be like a good boy. Like, I'm trying to be, like, I'm trying, like, I'm just trying to show, like, I really am trying my hardest all the time to those around me. And I am generally kind of trying my hardest all the time. But this is like, I worry about saying that. It's like somebody in a job interview saying, you know, the problem with me is, like, I just try too hard. I can't stop a task. So. But I think that. But there's a real. Like, I'm given a simple thing to do, and then I make it way more complicated and spend a lot more time on it than I probably should. Or there's some, like, thing in a mix that four other people have heard and it's Friday and this isn't not an. This is actually an example from real life. And then I just hear it and I'm just be like, we have to put 3/4 of a second pause here and 4/10 of a second pause there to make this last moment work, which I would like to believe makes it better. And I don't know, like, there's just like, I feel like. I feel like I'm always being a good soldier in appropriate and inappropriate situations, in personal situations where it's intrusive and not called for, and in work situations where I work with super competent, the very best at their jobs in the world, people who very much don't need my help sometimes. And so it's a quality that is both good and bad. It's just like wanting to just like, no, I want to do it better. I'm gonna do it better. I'm gonna show you how good I am, but not good. Like, you'll be impressed, but just. You'll think like, oh, look, you were good with a dog. Like, good boy. Like, you really tried. Good boy.

[Rachel Martin]

That's why you're so tired at 9 o'clock like that. Honestly, that sounds exhausting. You know what I mean? Trying so hard.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can be.

[Rachel Martin]

IRA class. You won. Wait, but there's more. There's a prize. Do you know what it is?

[Ira Glass]

I do know what it is. The prize in every show is that you tell people you get to go back to one memory from your. From whenever.

[Rachel Martin]

From whenever.

[Ira Glass]

And you get to be in it.

[Rachel Martin]

Be in it and share it and talk it through in detail.

[Ira Glass]

And so since I've heard the show knowing that I was gonna be here, I did try to think about what I would say. And the memory I have is.

[Rachel Martin]

I didn't make the sound effect. So the prize is a trip in our memory time machine where you go back, you pick a memory, you get to relive it. It's not a memory you want to change anything about. You just want to linger there a little longer. Does that help you get in the.

[Ira Glass]

Okay, it does, yes. That actually is like, that's actually. I thumbs up to that.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, what moment do you choose?

[Ira Glass]

I actually had a moment a couple months ago when I was looking at old photos from when I was 12 and 13 of my bar mitzvah. And there were pictures taken at my parents house or my house of just like all my relatives from that time. And I remember thinking it was like watching a TV show with the original cast in it. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's shows, like, where they change the cast over many seasons and all the different Star Trek franchises, right? But like, oh, my God, it's like the original cast. It's like William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy. It's like the original, like when they.

[Rachel Martin]

Swap out BJ Honeycutt and you're like, I know that's not that guy anymore.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I remember, like. And just like looking at the pictures like, oh, my God, it's like my grandma Molly and my grandma, grandfather and my parents and all these people who are everybody's dead. And like my Aunt Hortense and my Uncle Max arguing with my Uncle Lenny about politics. And just like. And there's a point during the bar mitzvah where I did my magic act for my relatives and they pretended to be pleased. And like. And there's pictures of me, like, holding up the props for the magic act and all of them standing around looking bemused and not as enchanted as I thought at the time, I think. And I would want to go back to that or like a dinner that the family would go out to this restaurant called the Pimlico Hotel that was this like, Baltimore institution. And just like, just to observe that again, just to like, I mean, that's it. There's no plot to this particular narrative, but just the thought of reimmersing with the original cast and seeing them in their complexity.

[Rachel Martin]

It has been such a pleasure. Thank you for doing this. Thank you guys for having us. Ira Glass.

[Ira Glass]

Thanks so much. I enjoyed it.

[Rachel Martin]

As you may have noticed, we stopped calling the Memory Time Machine a prize soon after this taping. By the way, I'm not going to say that's entirely because of Ira, but he might have played a little role. This episode was produced by Lee Hale and Rommel Wood and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Gilly Moon. Special thanks to Seth Lind and everyone at Podcast Movement for their help. Wildcard's executive producer is Beth Donovan. Our theme music is by Ramtin Arablouei. You can reach out to us at wildcardnpr. We'll shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. See you then.

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