Jesse Eisenberg sprinkles trouble throughout his day

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin: Jesse Eisenberg Sprinkles Trouble Throughout His Day

NPR’s “Wild Card” is a refreshing departure from conventional interview podcasts. Hosted by Rachel Martin, the show employs a unique deck of cards to prompt guests to delve into life’s profound questions, steering clear of the typical scripted conversations. In the episode released on January 30, 2025, titled "Jesse Eisenberg Sprinkles Trouble Throughout His Day," actor, writer, and director Jesse Eisenberg shares candid insights into his personal life, creative process, and introspections. This comprehensive summary captures the essence of their engaging dialogue.

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Introduction to Jesse Eisenberg

Rachel Martin opens the episode by highlighting her admiration for Jesse Eisenberg, not only for his exceptional acting skills but also for the positive influence his work has had on her parenting. She emphasizes how Eisenberg’s portrayal of complex male characters resonates with her desire to raise emotionally intelligent boys. Notable works mentioned include The Squid and The Whale (2005), The Art of Self-Defense (2019), and his latest film, A Real Pain, which has garnered significant acclaim, including an Oscar nomination for Best Original Screenplay.

Rachel Martin: “I appreciate Jesse Eisenberg not just because he's really good at acting, but because he helps me raise my kids...” [01:04]

Early Life and Personal Reflections

The conversation begins with a game segment where Jesse is prompted to answer personal questions drawn from a deck of cards. His first choice is:

Card 2: “What’s something you thought was normal about your childhood that you now realize was unusual?”

Eisenberg reflects on his own struggles with anxiety, contrasting them with his children’s seemingly carefree attitudes.

Jesse Eisenberg: “I was like a miserable, miserable kid... watching my kid go to school in a different way than I did was an unbelievably revelatory experience.” [04:37]

Rachel follows up by questioning whether witnessing his children's lack of anxiety has alleviated his own, to which Jesse acknowledges that his anxieties persist despite their boldness.

Jesse Eisenberg: “No, I think I'm too old to change. So I'm still continuously mystified as to people who seem to walk through the world with their head held high.” [06:09]

He mentions using ChatGPT to explore academic literature related to his personal observations, illustrating his blend of introspection and reliance on technology for understanding human behavior.

Jesse Eisenberg: “I asked ChatGPT this morning... there is a trove of academic evidence to support what you're saying.” [06:09]

Aspirations and Personal Growth

Card 3: “Who was the person you wanted to emulate growing up?”

Eisenberg discusses his teenage aspiration to join the NBA, inspired by a neighbor named Tom who stood six feet one inch tall.

Jesse Eisenberg: “I really thought I had a chance... Knowledge of Tom made it feel possible in New Jersey drinking the same water as I drank.” [09:02]

He humorously contrasts his basketball dreams with his actual height of five’8½”, attributing his change in direction to personal struggles during his early teens.

Jesse Eisenberg: “I think I ruined myself. I think I self-destructed when I was 12 and 13 out of a phobia of milk.” [10:39]

Moment of Bravery as a Teenager

Card 1: “What’s a moment when you remember being brave as a teenager?”

Jesse recounts his senior year of high school when he transferred to a performing arts school in New York City. The bravest act he recalls is skipping school to attend a Broadway matinee of Judgment at Nuremberg, a display of his burgeoning commitment to the arts despite the risk of disciplinary action.

Jesse Eisenberg: “Cut school one day to go see a Broadway matinee of Judgment at Nuremberg... Our teachers would be like, oh my God, you sweet nerds.” [11:18]

Jesse’s Work and New Film: A Real Pain

Rachel transitions the conversation to Eisenberg’s latest project, A Real Pain, a film that has received widespread critical acclaim. The film explores the dynamics between two cousins reconnecting with their Holocaust-surviving ancestors in Poland.

Jesse Eisenberg: “Kieran has this very unusual quality where he is just like this very unusual mix of incredibly sophisticated and also spontaneously crass...” [15:03]

He delves into the character study of his role alongside Kieran Culkin, discussing themes of privilege, struggle, and the complexities of human relationships.

Jesse Eisenberg: “It's like this... the person who seems kind of self-conscious and overeager is the person who kind of gets on people's nerves.” [17:00]

Second Round: Music and Fixations

The game resumes with Jesse selecting:

Card 2: “Is the music you listen to happier or sadder than you are?”

Eisenberg expresses a preference for sadder, more emotionally evocative music, citing Light in the Piazza and Chopin nocturnes as favorites. He contrasts his tastes with his wife’s preference for happier tunes, reflecting on how music serves different emotional needs in their household.

Jesse Eisenberg: “The point of music for me is to get us back in touch with something miserable.” [20:12]

Card 3: “What do you find yourself getting fixated on?”

Jesse discusses his tendency to obsess over seemingly trivial matters, such as card sequences, as a means to find meaning or create personal challenges in his daily life.

Jesse Eisenberg: “My preoccupation in my life is like, how do I try to find meaning in a life that seems too good for what my expectations were for my life.” [21:44]

He connects these behaviors to his need to stay busy and avoid dwelling on deeper anxieties.

Jesse Eisenberg: “I just try to stay busy because if I'm not busy, I get preoccupied with this just crazy stuff all day.” [24:22]

Memory Time Machine: Reflecting on the Past

In the final segment, Jesse is invited to revisit a moment from his past. He chooses the time spent with his Aunt Doris during his late teens, describing it as a profound yet challenging relationship that significantly shaped his character.

Jesse Eisenberg: “When I was 17, I started seeing my Aunt Doris... those moments shaped me in every way.” [39:27]

He reflects on the strict and somewhat austere nature of their interactions, which instilled in him values of self-awareness, humility, and thoughtfulness despite the apparent rigidity.

Jesse Eisenberg: “She was tough on me... she was shaping me to be self-aware and thoughtful and humble.” [39:22]

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Rachel praising Jesse’s contributions to his latest film and the enriching conversation they shared. Jesse expresses gratitude for the opportunity to reflect on his experiences and the meaningful dialogue facilitated by the Wild Card format.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Rachel Martin on Jesse’s Influence:

  • “I appreciate Jesse Eisenberg not just because he's really good at acting, but because he helps me raise my kids...” [01:04]

• Jesse on Childhood Anxiety:

  • “I was like a miserable, miserable kid... watching my kid go to school in a different way than I did was an unbelievably revelatory experience.” [04:37]

• Jesse on Using ChatGPT:

  • “I asked ChatGPT this morning... there is a trove of academic evidence to support what you're saying.” [06:09]

• Jesse on Aspiring to the NBA:

  • “I really thought I had a chance... Being 6'1 in New Jersey drinking the same water as I drank.” [09:02]

• Jesse on Bravery in High School:

  • “Cut school one day to go see a Broadway matinee of Judgment at Nuremberg... Our teachers would be like, oh my God, you sweet nerds.” [11:18]

• Jesse on A Real Pain:

  • “Kieran has this very unusual quality where he is just like this very unusual mix of incredibly sophisticated and also spontaneously crass...” [15:03]

• Jesse on Music Preferences:

  • “The point of music for me is to get us back in touch with something miserable.” [20:12]

• Jesse on Personal Fixations:

  • “My preoccupation in my life is like, how do I try to find meaning in a life that seems too good for what my expectations were for my life.” [21:44]

• Jesse on Memory Time Machine:

  • “When I was 17, I started seeing my Aunt Doris... those moments shaped me in every way.” [39:27]

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Conclusion

This episode of Wild Card offers a deep dive into Jesse Eisenberg’s psyche, exploring his struggles with anxiety, his unique coping mechanisms, and his reflections on personal growth and professional achievements. Through Rachel Martin’s thoughtfully crafted questions, listeners gain an intimate look at the complexities that shape a successful artist and a thoughtful individual. Whether discussing his latest film or personal anecdotes from his youth, Eisenberg’s honesty and introspection provide a captivating narrative that resonates with anyone navigating the challenges of personal and professional life.

Transcript

[NPR Sponsor]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Sony Pictures Classics. I'm still here from filmmaker Walter Salas is the true story of one family's resilience when a dictatorship attempts to tear them apart. Led by a Golden Globe winning performance by Fernanda Torres. Now playing Select Cities, what do you.

[Rachel Martin]

Find yourself getting fixated on?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I've been fixated on trying to remember If I went 2, 3, 1 with the first round of cards and if I should do that again or if I should change it up. And I guess this speaks to a larger truth, which is just like I get fixed on complete and utter irrelevance.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life. Pulled from a deck of cards, they're allowed to skip one or flip one back on me. My guest this week is actor, writer, director Jesse Eisenberg.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

My preoccupation in my life is like, well, how do I try to find meaning in a life that seems too, too good for what my expectations were for my life?

[Rachel Martin]

I appreciate Jesse Eisenberg not just because he's really good at acting, but because he helps me raise my kids. What you ask? Okay, so that was unnecessarily provocative. But here's what I mean. Jesse tends to play these male characters with deep, interior lives, characters who spend a lot of time feeling things like anxiety, fear and insecurity. They are also big hearted and kind. And on screen, we see Jesse's characters trying to find their place in a world where men are expected to flatten their vulnerabilities and all their emotions to fit into some antiquated definition of masculinity. Okay, so what does this have to do with my kids? Well, I've got two boys. They are 10 and 12, and I want very much for them to turn into young men who are comfortable living through every one of their emotions. And, and maybe I'm giving Hollywood too much power in my life, but it feels affirming as a parent to see these kinds of male characters on screen. Case in point, the Squid and The Whale from 2005, the Art of Self Defense from 2019. The show Fleischman is in Trouble from the same year. And of course, the movie that's getting a ton of accolades right now, including an Oscar nomination for Best Original screenplay. The movie A Real Pain, which Jesse wrote and directed. He also co stars in the film alongside Kieran Culkin. These are just a few of my favorite performances of his. And I am so excited to welcome Jesse Eisenberg to Wild Card. Hi, Jesse.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Thank you, Rachel. Thank you for that amazing introduction and apparent responsibility that I have to.

[Rachel Martin]

Sorry, no pressure. They're great kids. So you've been doing a great job. No, thanks.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I'm sure they're fine. And, yeah, you're welcome.

[Rachel Martin]

So I don't know a lot of film directors, but Ruben Fleischer happens to be a family friend of mine. And when I told him I was gonna interview you for our show, he sent me the most lovely text that I want to read to you. Okay. This is a quote from Ruben, who has directed you, I think, in like, four movies.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Four movies, yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. There isn't a kinder actor to work with. Jesse knows all the crew members by name and discovers a little about each person's life. Actors have a reputation for being self absorbed. Jesse is the exact opposite, where it seems like he'd rather talk about anyone other than himself.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes.

[Rachel Martin]

So that's what your director thinks of you.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It's probably not good to send to somebody who's doing an interview with me for a radio show, but. Yeah, no, Ruben I love. We literally finished a movie a month ago, which is our fourth movie. And I just love him too. He's also such a curious person. Although he presents on the outside as, like, very kind of like. It's just. He's a contradiction of a person and I love him so much. A very sensitive person you might not necessarily suspect.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, he's lovely. He loves you. He was glad to hear that you were on the show. And hopefully that doesn't mean that this is gonna be too painful for you because I'm gonna talk by yourself.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's fine. I talk about other people because I do weird things like this occasionally and have to constantly talk about myself. And so, yes, take as many opportunities as I can to learn about other people.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. So I think it's going to be fun. I think you're actually going to enjoy it. Okay, let's go.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Great.

[Rachel Martin]

First three cards.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

One, two or three?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Two.

[Rachel Martin]

Two. What's something you thought was normal about your childhood that you now realize was unusual?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. What was normal? What did I think was normal? You know, I mean, I was. I mean. But I don't want to. Like, sounds like I'm asking for pity. I was like a miserable, miserable kid. I was like. I mean, I had great parents. I was a miserable kid for some reason. And I thought it was, like, normal to. That we're all terrified of all things. And now I take my kid to School, you know, which I did two hours ago, and they run right into the building smiling. And the first, like, time that happened, which was like, you know, you know, first day of school, I don't know, two years ago, whatever. I was like, what is going on? How do they not know what's inside for them? And so I keep, as a parent, waiting for the shoe to drop and reality to hit that actually life is miserable and going to school is miserable, and they just haven't felt that yet. And so I guess that's something. And it's been, I would say, overall, an unbelievably revelatory experience watching my kid go to school in a different way than I did.

[Rachel Martin]

Wow. There's a lot in that answer. And we will touch on these things, I imagine, in subsequent questions. But I do wonder my immediate follow up to that. Has watching your kid not suffer from the same kind of anxiety that you did, has that lessened any current or existing anxiety that still travels with you into adulthood? Like, does your child. Does your child's boldness in the world and ability not to be paralyzed by fear, does it free you in some way from your own?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

No, I think I'm too old to change. So I'm still continuously mystified as to people who seem to walk through the world with their head held high. I don't understand it. In fact, I asked ChatGPT this morning, do you think if I had more circumstantially difficult life experiences, if I'd be more confident asking for a bagel? And ChatGPT said, well, actually, there is a trove of academic evidence to support what you're saying, which is growth through trauma, et cetera. So this is kind of what I'm obsessed about. ChatGPT is a great place to go for these very human questions.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you do that? Do you use ChatGPT that way?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, because I'm really interested in. I'm not that much of an educated person. I have a bachelor's degree, but I come from more academics. And so anytime I have these thoughts about myself, I try to see if there's any academic literature that supports these things that I think are these epiphanies. It's like when you're in high school and you think you're so brilliant for having basically, epiphanies that somebody had thousands of years ago. And so I just turn to, like, see if there's any kind of, like, literature to support the thing that I think is so novel in my head.

[Rachel Martin]

You know, oh, that hadn't occurred to me that actually is useful. So it's not that you need validation from artificial intelligence about what you're feeling, but it gives you resources. It basically gives you footnotes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. So I got a bagel this morning, and I felt too nervous to ask something about the bagel. And then I had this thought, which was that I wonder if I had something more objectively horrifying happen in my life. I'd be much more comfortable asking about the bagel because I wouldn't have this kind of, you know, let's say, needless fantastical self consciousness that for some reason I carry around. And so I said, is there any, like, literature to support this kind of thing? And I said, yes, there are theories about growth through trauma, which means like, that, you know, if you experience something traumatic, you working on growth in a way that maybe makes you less subconscious about these kind of smaller, little petty things.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. This is going to be an interesting episode, I can tell.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, imagine how interesting this bagel was this morning. Little did the bagel know, it was part of a discussion with the conference.

[Rachel Martin]

Poor little unsuspecting, everything bagel. Was it everything? What was it?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It was pumpernickel everything. And my initial question was, is pumpernickel healthier than eating a plain bagel? And then I was thinking, oh, I could ask the people behind the counter, but no, it's a grab and go, fast New York place. They don't want to answer this kind of question. And so then I went to Ch Chatgpt and I said, do you think if I suffered an objective trauma, I would have asked if the pumpernickel was healthier? And it said, yeah, maybe. What a dumb life. Dumb, dumb life. No, that is.

[Rachel Martin]

I feel like that's. There's a kernel of a movie in there somewhere.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, the next question. 1, 2, 3. You picked 3. Who was the person you wanted to emulate growing up?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh. Ooh, gee. Okay. When. Yeah, when I was younger, I was obsessed with basketball, and I wanted to be in the NBA and, like, you know, not in like a kind of like, I want to be a spaceman. Like, no, I really, like, thought, like, it's going to happen. I mean, I guess people who want to be spacemen might also think that. But, like, I really did think. I mean, with spacemen, there are not, like, 250 slots. You know what I mean? With the NBA, you really have a good. The odds of it.

[Rachel Martin]

You thought you had a chance. I mean, were you good?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. Yeah, I was Good. I was good. And the kid. There was a kid who lived across the street from me, and he was 6 foot 1. His name was Tom, and he lived across the street from me in New Jersey. And I remember thinking it was so amazing that I knew somebody who was 6:1. And I thought that gave me a better chance, you know, because knowing Tom. Knowing Tom. That's right. Knowing Tom, playing basketball with Tom and just having basically just seeing that it was possible to be six one. And now I'm an adult and I realize, like, six'one in the NBA would be really. It would be small, you'd be a, you know, smaller end guard. But at the time, Tom made it feel possible in New Jersey drinking the same water as I drank.

[Rachel Martin]

That's right.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You know, was 6:1.

[Rachel Martin]

Did I have so many questions. How tall are you, Jesse?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Me? I'm like maybe five, eight and a half. I think.

[Rachel Martin]

Maybe you are not six one. No.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, no, I'm not six one, but, you know, I was. I could taste it.

[Rachel Martin]

Genetics are not in your favor. Who knows what have happened?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

No, no, no. Genetics are in my favor. Both my grandfathers were tall. I think I was just depressed. And I stopped drinking milk for two years because, I don't know, I had some weird phobia, amongst other weird phobias, both my grandfather or six'one so, yeah, I don't know. I genuinely think I ruined myself. I think I self destructed when I was 12 and 13 out of a phobia of milk.

[Rachel Martin]

I think your inner basketball player may have self destructed, but it's okay. I mean, it worked out.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, last one in this round. 1, 2 or 3?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

1.

[Rachel Martin]

1. What's a moment when you remember being brave as a teenager?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Ooh, as a teenager, I remember being brave. Give me a second. Well, so in my senior year of high school, I kind of, like came into my own a little bit. I grew up in New Jersey, but my senior year of high school, I transferred to a performing arts high school in New York City. And it was just like, I just became like an adult overnight going there. But the bravest thing I did was probably cut school one day to go see a Broadway matinee of judgment at Nuremberg, which maybe tells you enough about me, you know, to understand my full personality, which is that, like, you know, my friends and I. Well, one friend and I, Graham. But also, like, the way we were planning it, like a heist at math class in the morning, like, yeah, cool, I'm gonna meet you at lunch and we're gonna get there. I think we can get student tickets for the last Rome mezzanine. And so, like transgression in high school was going to see a Broadway matinee. I'm sure it would have been like the kind of thing like that. If our teachers caught us, they'd be like, oh, my God, you sweet nerds. Of course. Go. That's great. I'm giving you an A anyway. Yeah.

[Sara Levy]

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[Rachel Martin]

Betterment is here to help customers build.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Wealth their way and we provide powerful.

[Rachel Martin]

Technology and complete human support where technology can deliver ease of use and affordability. And the people behind that technology can.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Provide advice and guidance.

[Sara Levy]

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[Rachel Martin]

Okay, so we're actually going to pause from the game for a few minutes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

And I want to talk about your new movie.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

It's called A Real Pain. And you are getting so much positive feedback on this film. It has been nominated up the wazoo for all kinds of stuff. You've been nominated for best original Screenplay at the Oscars. Kieran Culkin was nominated for best supporting actor. He already won that award at the Golden Globes. So, I mean, congratulations on all of it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, thanks.

[Rachel Martin]

It's about these two cousins who come together to go on this heritage tour back to Poland, where their family originated from. And they're trying to connect with the experience of their ancestors who survived the Holocaust. Kieran Culkin was cast as Benji, who's this troubled cousin of your character, David. And I understand you had not seen Kieran Culkin in anything before. You were just like, I feel like that guy would be good. Let me call him.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah. That is kind of what Happened. I just. Yeah. Have a sense. Kieran has this very unusual quality where he is just like this very unusual mix of incredibly sophisticated and also spontaneously crass. It's hard to describe, but it's exactly what this character is. It's like the character is smart, but kind of dumbs himself down as a power move. And also to try to feel a little bit more of the people, he kind of stifles his higher brow, curiosities. It's just a mixture of all these things. And Kieran does all this stuff. You know, you could see that he has a deep inner life, but at the same time, he's very funny and can kind of like, you know, let anxieties roll off his back in a way that affect me more. And it just felt like, oh, the two of us together felt right.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. I mean, what I love about it is that these are. They're like psychological profiles of these two men.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly.

[Rachel Martin]

Deep examinations of how they absorb the trauma of their family, but also how they're just trying to navigate their own relationship and their place in the world, as I kind of said in the intro. And Kieran in particular, his character felt like a composite of a lot of people. Not a lot, but a handful of people that I know in my life who are these charismatic bright lights and they know how to use that energy. But also there's just such a deep, deep, deep sadness. And he was able so beautifully to kind of straddle that. And then there's your character who's just like. You have to suffer the repercussions of all his emoting.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's like this. You know, there's something comic in the dynamic of, like, the guy who over prepares and still loses. You know, like my character pays for the trip and he prepares the trip and schedules the trip and shows up early. And then just for whatever set of life, cosmic reasons, the other characters all love Kieran and don't like me. And it's like I understand it from a social dynamic perspective, which is that the person who seems kind of self conscious and overeager is the person who kind of gets on people's nerves. I get it. Cause I've been in those situations and I've been on the other end of those situations too. And then, by contrast, the person who seems to not really care and the person who seems to kind of be comfortable in their own skin for whatever set of circumstances those people are liked. I see my wife as incredibly charming and funny and wonderful, but she's late to everything. And I'm early to everything. And I see what happens, which is that, like, I get to a place early and I'm helping set up the chairs and everything. And my wife and people are nice to me, oh, thanks for helping with the chairs and everything. And, you know, whatever, but no one really cares about me. And then my wife comes in, like, 10 minutes late after, and the group has to, like, restart whatever we were doing. And she's so charming. She's like, I'm so sorry I went the wrong way. And I got an apple on the way. And, like, they're like, oh, great. No, come on in. How was the apple? And she's like, it wasn't good. And they're like, well, let's go get you another apple. You sit down. And so, like, I see the world just, like, opens it up to her. And I think for people like me, and I love my wife and everything when I'm with people like that, I'm like, just how is it possible that the world opens their door for people like that and closes it on people like me? But I also understand it from, like, a social dynamic perspective.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Have you heard from a lot of people for whom this really resonated, either people who've, I don't know, gone back to Europe to try to reconnect with family stories from the Holocaust or Poland in particular and that concentration camp in particular?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. I mean, I've met just as many people who are Jewish and have a connection to this very specific history as people who are non Jews. But just it resonates for them because they were, you know, curious about where their family is from. I mean, you know, the most kind of vivid story I heard is from somebody who's very clearly not Jewish, Conan O'Brien, who told me that, you know, he went back to see where his family was from in Ireland, and he said, I had a really similar kind of strange epiphany. And he said he was looking out at the rolling hills in Ireland, and he asked the guy who was showing him around this. He was, you know, his family's ancestral home. And he goes, God, it's just so beautiful. Why would they have ever left? And the guy said, because he can't eat the views. You know, so it was just this, you know, again, this kind of, like, bittersweet understanding of history, of, wow, God, this was gorgeous. And yet so, so horrible. And the same thing in Poland. You know, we're on this, and so much of it is so beautiful, and yet, you know, the actual History that we're exploring is, you know, unbelievably traumatic. Industrialized murder, you know, it's so horrific. But there's like a kind of, you know, aesthetic irony there. Of course.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that. It's an excellent movie. Everyone should see it. We're gonna get back into the game.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

Three new cards. Okay, sure.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yep.

[Rachel Martin]

It's round two. This is like insights.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Okay, let's go two. Two.

[Rachel Martin]

Is the music you listen to happier or sadder than you are?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's so funny. I guess sadder in the sense that, like, I really do like. Like, I really like musical theater, but I really only like dark musical theater, you know? This morning we were listening to Light in the Piazza as my kid was getting ready. There's some really heartbreaking songs. Like Dividing Day. I was playing for my 8 year old before they had to go to school today. That's probably will cause some problems.

[Rachel Martin]

I don't know what that is.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, it's a woman. It's from Light in the Piazza. Adam Gettle. And it's about this woman realizing that she perhaps was always disconnected from her husband, even at their wedding. And now she's like an older woman and she's realizing that her marriage hasn't been working. So that's what I was playing.

[Rachel Martin]

Have a good day, kiddo.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. 7:30 in the morning. And then I listened to Chopin all the time too. And that's all the music in A Real Pain is my favorite music, which is Chopin nocturnes. And you know, my kid knows them. I like emotionally evocative music. You know, I don't like fun music. I notice sometimes my wife will play like fun music and I just. I'm like, how do you even have access to this? How do you even know about these things? You know, I just don't understand the point of that. The point of music for me is to get us back in touch with something miserable. But for her, she likes to feel.

[Rachel Martin]

Happy, which is, you know, it's her prerogative, you know? Exactly. Each their own.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

She needs to do that in her life.

[Rachel Martin]

Weirdo. Okay.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Three more cards. One, two or three?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Okay, three.

[Rachel Martin]

Three. What do you find yourself getting fixated on?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I've been fixated on trying to remember If I went 2, 3, 1 with the first round of cards and if I should do that again or if I should change it up. And I guess this speaks to a larger truth, which is just like I get fix on complete and utter irrelevance. Yeah. So like with the. So I just get fixated on that and I don't know why. I think it's like play a little game with myself again. My preoccupation in my life is like, how do I try to find meaning in a life that seems too good for what my expectations were for my life? Okay. And so like, I think I create these weird little games in order to like just get through the day. So for example, like I create little problems for myself, you know, having to arrive on certain places at an even number time, creating these little like, you know, what you might call obsessive compulsive, like preoccupations. But I think I do it to create like little challenges in my life. I think in an attempt to just give me some trouble during the day.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, that's so interesting. Is it? Yeah, I think it is. No, I do think it's interesting. Everyone's little psychological Piccadilly. When I was young, I've never even said this out loud. I used to count the syllables of things I was saying. So I used to count the syllables and I would do it on these three fingers and if I ended on the middle finger, it was a problem and I needed to construct the next sentence. So it ended on this finger.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes. Oh my God. I have that. Not at all. Not at all. So that's great. I mean, if I could just. I don't want to take your moment, but I do a very similar thing which is like I count the syllables of everybody's name and if I can get, if they can have a five syllable name, my name is five syllable Jesse Esberg. And like it's really satisfying for me.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, yeah, it feels like good.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, you're right. I like these things too. For some reason in our modern era, it feels self indulgent to talk about these things, but I feel like maybe we've given it some kind of humorous perspective that allows us to not feel like it's indulgent, I think.

[Rachel Martin]

And then maybe there are people out there who are like, I also count the syllables of what people are saying. And now I feel less lonely. Jesse, that's how you're right.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Maybe you're right. We're giving.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. But I do a real follow up question that could paralyze a person. Like if you create too many of those psychological problems throughout the day, but clearly you've been able to compartmentalize.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Well, you know what it is like I'm in the arts and I'm like, I guess I consider myself like a freelance artist, which Just means you hop from one job to the next. And I really like staying busy because if I'm not busy, I get preoccupied with this just crazy stuff all day. And so I really like being busy. So tomorrow. Cause I'm about to do a new movie. We're scouting locations all day, and I know I'm not gonna do all those things all day because I'm gonna be thinking about the movie and this, and I need to stay busy. Otherwise my mind goes little nutty.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, I get it. Okay. Three more cards. One, two, three.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Well, I have this thing. I guess it has to be 1 according to.

[Rachel Martin]

Has ambition ever led you astray?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Whoa. Such a good question. Whoa. I mean, yeah, I think about it all the time. Do you? Yeah. Let me just think for one second. I was a fish. Never led me astray. Yeah. I mean, in an attempt for me to, like, stay just busy and active, I sometimes will, like, push for my things to be done, sometimes if they're premature. So like, even prematurely, you know. So, like, yeah, I've, you know, written stuff that I've performed that, like, it's because I wanted to, like, stay busy. And I knew it wasn't, like, exactly up to what it should be yet. I just want to stay busy. But I will say, like, the counterpart of that is, like, I have to do that in order to just be able to sustain. I'm not naturally an ambitious person for myself, but I really am quite a worried person about failing. And so it creates an ambition in me by necessity to just try to stay busy at all times. So I just try to be involved with things all the time. I wouldn't exactly call it professional ambition as much as just I want to be busy all the time. So maybe that's pushed me sometimes to do things prematurely. Yeah. But I don't have, like, financial or professional ambitions, you know, that are unrelated to the things I like doing creatively.

[Rachel Martin]

How have you managed that fear of failure thing? Because that's inevitable. I mean, you've had them, right? I assume.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I've had, like, far more failures than successes. I mean, and my father is a sweet person. He's a teacher and is not, like, in the arts and has such sweet perspectives on my life. And, you know, so, like, with this movie, a real pain. It's, like, doing well and everything. And, you know, there's a feeling, like, inside of me that, like, this should be the norm and, like, I'm a failure if this is not the norm. And my dad is again, so Sweet. And has kind of a 60,000 foot view or 30,000 foot view, depending on your airline, of what this means. And he tells me things like, you know, if you have two of these, like in your career, that's like a really successful career to have in like the arts to have like, let's say two movies that you make that are regarded this nicely. And so that puts things in perspective because what it tells me is that this is like, should not be expected to be the norm. And that kind of puts things in a nice perspective. And then my other friend Jim tells me all the time, like, if you want a career in the arts, the success is like basically staying active and busy. The successes are not like the one or two things that spike. Those are like great, but those are the things that are like the trusses that help the bridge, you know, stand. And the bridge is the God. I went down a metaphor. Rabbit hole. But basically so the. Okay, wait. So the projects are caissons and the trusses are the cars? No, no, but basically like staying active and busy, being able to keep doing things as opposed to, for example, having crazy. Exactly. Being able to keep doing it.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Sara Levy]

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[Rachel Martin]

This is the last round.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, okay.

[Rachel Martin]

Beliefs cards are red.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, wow.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, yeah. One, two or three.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Caution to the wind. One. What do you think of that one? That's growth.

[Rachel Martin]

Wild.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, I know.

[Rachel Martin]

What's a belief you chose to let go of?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, wow. God. God. Is that your answer, actually? That's funny. Well, yeah, I mean, okay, so my relationship with religion is probably very run of the mill, which is that, you know, I grew up with parents who are more religious than I am, and so I'm more secular. This is very, very standard, probably American practice, especially American Jewish practice, that I grew far more secular than my parents grew, who grew far more secular than their parents, you know, and so that's not unusual, you know. You know, and so, like, I got very comfortable as a young man with, like, basically abandoning all ties to religion and to beliefs and, you know, higher power, et cetera, all that stuff. And, you know, then my wife lost her parents and she started being more curious about going to temple for, like, the ritual of it, and also a feeling of connection to something greater because she was grieving so much for the loss of her parents. And I, you know, will go to temple with her. And now I in some ways, like, grieve for the loss of, like, boring communal activities. And so, like, I find in my life, you know, that hedonism is not really pleasurable. Like, and the boring communal activity of going to temple when I was younger served a purpose. And at the time, you don't know what purpose it's serving because you just want to get the hell out of there. But as an adult, I'm like, yeah, those boring, like, communal things, I think are probably serving us as a culture or society. In a way. That's probably a good thing. It makes us less self involved. It makes us able to deal with boredom, living in our own heads without constantly entertaining ourselves to death, et cetera. And so when I go to temp with my wife, I'm like, really bored. But I feel like it's good for me in some bigger way.

[Rachel Martin]

It's one thing to think it's good for you. Have you actually afterwards, after you've gone to temple and you're talking with your wife about it, is she very clear on the effect that it had on her? And are you still struggling to find words to define what just happened and how it's benefiting you?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Wow, that's such an insightful question. And I think the answer is that my wife and I experience it very differently. She is somebody who appreciates like music and, you know, sensorial things. I'm kind of in my head more. And so she appreciates it on many levels. And she's singing the songs and she's doing the prayers and then she's tearing up when appropriate. You know, when they're talking about grief and our loved ones and our loss. To me, I'm like too in my head to appreciate all that stuff or to engage with it on like a moment to moment level. But I do notice that after I do that stuff, I feel a sense of humility. I'm not an expert in the liturgy or whatever. Maybe that's not even Jewish related word. But like, I just know that me sitting there in a state of like anti boredom ness was correct. Was good for me because otherwise my life is a series of choices I made. And that. And I don't know that that's actually healthy. Even though it seems like I have total great agency.

[Rachel Martin]

That is such an interesting answer to that question. Thanks. Yeah, we do need to be uncomfortable and bored sometimes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

I think you just identified like a spiritual quality to boredom.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes, yes. That is. Maybe it's related to humility. And in terms of spirituality, which I think is hard for probably a lot of people connect to, we can understand humility a little better. Which means like you're not the center of the world for these moments. And the thing, all of your desires are not the kind of relevant things in this moment. But I don't know. I also live in a bubble because I'm a very lucky person. So I live in a bubble. I imagine for most people in the world they are experiencing lots of boredom during their days because they have regular jobs. My job is like, hey, can you come and sing and dance on camera? And then we're gonna put you on a poster. Like, I live in a really weird world that is probably unrelatable.

[Rachel Martin]

This is the last one. One, two or three.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, you mean. Oh, I could have chosen like the same number for each thing?

[Rachel Martin]

Totally. Oh my God. Does that upset you? Like you could have released. There are three different cards every time.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Right. So fascinating. I didn't realize you replaced it.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm an idiot.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Sorry.

[Rachel Martin]

No, I should have told you that because then you created like a matrix in your mind to try to get at every question. And now I feel so sad that I made you do those mental gymnastics.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

No, no, no. You did me a great favor because I needed that matrix to feel the struggle of what life is like. Now I understand what it feels like. I've tasted the soil. Okay, let's do number one.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, number one, what is your best defense against despair?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, wow. Jesus. I mean, I feel rude flipping because. But I'm curious. But I mean. But I feel rude flipping because it's kind of like a personal question.

[Rachel Martin]

No, they're all personal questions.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You can flip it, but can I.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, totally.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Do you mind? Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

It is. It is. It is appreciation. It's like a really rigorous practice of appreciation. And embedded in that is perspective, I guess. And this sounds really grim, but, like, you know, I'm constantly thinking about people who have it worse than I do.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, of course.

[Rachel Martin]

Which seems sad and grim, but it's a surefire way for me to kick whatever particular pity party I'm having for myself. And I don't want to dismiss all of that. Like, sometimes the despair is real. Like, it can be a grief or I'm missing a loved one, or just like a psychological sorrow I'm feeling on a particular day. Because, you know, like, a lot of us, I have ups and downs. But for me, when that. When despair shows its face, my best defense is to just, like, open my eyes. Just hyper awareness to all the good.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Rachel Martin]

And that usually kicks me out of it, Right?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. Yeah, that's a nice way to think about it. Wait, flipping implies I also respond, though. Okay, no, that's fine. No, that's fine. I'm happy to it. Just from everything you're saying, something kind of tangential but also relevant, like, occurs to me, which is that, like, I married a woman who has, like, the same values as me. I mean, she's far better person. She works in social justice, teaches disability justice and awareness in public schools, and her mom ran a domestic violence shelter for 35 years. And so she comes from this kind of world. But I'm really, as you mentioned, preoccupied with people who have it worse than me again. It's what my new movie, A Real Pain, is about. It's what all my plays have been about. Privilege versus struggle and meaning versus emptiness, etc. The interesting thing that occurs to me, though, is that my wife, she. She. She just does something about it. She doesn't, like, ever. She always just says, okay, so what are you gonna do about it? So if I'm, like, feeling miserable, she's like, okay, so what do you. What are you gonna do about her? I'm like, what happened to my friend? She always was just like, oh, let's call him now and try to get him a job. My friend didn't Get a job. He's struggling. She's like, oh, I know. Oh, you know, I can call my friend Lita. She actually knows somebody who just lost their job here. Maybe they can talk. Maybe they can work together. She just. She just. There's not an instinct in her to wallow in it or to, like, make it about herself. Yes, yes. So I make it about myself. Oh, God, I feel so guilty. She's not even aware that she's doing something different than me. It's just the way she's wired. And so I kind of. I look to her all the time, and we've been together forever, so, like, it's very easy for me to just kind of just ask her.

[Rachel Martin]

I think it's so lovely that you found each other.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It seems like, oh, I'm lucky. I'm lucky. She's. You know, I'm lucky because I'm not wired for anything good. She's wired to do all this good stuff.

[Rachel Martin]

That's not true, Jesse. I've known you for an hour, and I don't think you're wired.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I do nothing good. No, no. I'm a thoughtful person, but it doesn't lead to, like, you know, benevolent action. She's just, like. She's less contemplative than me. She's just very active and has a good heart.

[Rachel Martin]

Although I do want to. Where we started. Ruben Fleischer, your director, said that you were, like, the kindest person of all time.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

So, you know, he's judging me against actors. I think you have to qualify. That text message, he said, one of the kindest actors.

[Rachel Martin]

It's true.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. Yeah. That's like, you know, the tallest jockey, you know? You know, it's a low bar in my profession.

[Rachel Martin]

So we end the show the same way every time.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

With a trip in our memory time machine.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

So in the memory time machine, you get to revisit one moment from your past. It is a moment that you wouldn't change anything about. You don't want to change anything. You would just like to linger there a little longer. What moment do you choose?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And it could be anything. Like, it doesn't even have to be a positive thing.

[Rachel Martin]

Mm. Mm. Well, it has to be somewhere you want to spend more time in.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Mmm. Whoa. Wow. Whoa. Jesus. Yeah. So, like, when I was, like, 17, I started seeing my Aunt Doris. She was in her 80s. She died at 106 years old. And so when I was 17, I started. I started seeing her every week, and she was, like, pretty tough on me. In fact, this movie A real pain. Talks about Grandma Dory. That's my Aunt Doris, who I'm talking about. And for some reason I like really needed this relationship in some way. I couldn't explain. She was totally unimpressed by me. She would kind of just like, she was tough, you know, just like all she would do is like, complain I'm not sitting up straight and you know, why does my hair look like that? And I'm living like a child. And she was like, really tough on me. But for some reason I needed this thing. And like, I miss her so much because. So I would do three hours a day. It was every Thursday. I would clear my schedule, make sure I was available. And so we had these three hours every week. And it was intense. It was very intense. It would be like, you know, she would constantly redirect the, you know, conversation and the relationship to like, self improvement on like a deeper level. Not like in an emotional, like modern day, the way we talk about like self love, more like you gotta stand up straight and you need to make these calls tomorrow, like just in like a way, like stop living like a child. And we were in her darkened apartment eating the same thing, which was carrots, broccoli, black beans, and this salad dressing she made. And we would eat that every Thursday. And I missed those moments so much. They shaped me in like, in every way. Even though she didn't realize that the way she was shaping me was not the way she was intending, she was shaping me to kind of like be self aware and thoughtful and humble. But what she thought she was doing was making me stand up straight and, you know, anyway, so what she was actually kind of angling towards was maybe something a little different than what I do. I don't value posture as much as she did. And yeah, I miss those moments. They were very, you know, they were a big part of my life and I had so many of those moments. But God, do I miss that kind of like darkened sanctuary with her.

[Rachel Martin]

Jesse Eisenberg's new film, A Real Pain, is out now. Jesse, thank you so much.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Rachel Martin]

If you like this conversation, go back to my episode with Jack Antonoff. He was also a complete open book about his anxieties, including his next level phobia of germs.

[Sara Levy]

You know, you look around, you're at a bus stop, a restaurant, anywhere you.

[Rachel Martin]

Are, people are just touching their nose.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Touching their eyes, and it's like, this.

[Sara Levy]

Is how it's all happening.

[Rachel Martin]

And like Jesse Eisenberg, Jack Antonoff also just struck me as someone who is just trying to be a good person in the world. This episode was produced by Romel Wood and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Patrick Murray. Wild Cards executive producer is Beth Donovan. Our theme music is by Ramtin Arabloue. You can reach out to [e-mail] we're going to shuffle the deck and we will be back with more next week. Talk to you then.

[Sara Levy]

This message comes from Warby Parker what makes a great pair of glasses at Warby Parker? It's all the invisible extras without the extra cost, like free adjustments for life. Find your [e-mail] or visit one of their hundreds of stores around the country. This message comes from Bombas. Their socks are super plush, designed to support your arches and support people in need. One purchase equals one donated to those experiencing homelessness. Go to bombas.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off your first order. This message comes from Mint Mobile. From the gas pump to the grocery store, inflation is everywhere. So Mint Mobile is offering premium wireless starting at just $15 a month. To get your new phone plan for just $15, go to mintmobile.com switch.