Wild Card with Rachel Martin: John Lithgow Just Wants a Good Ending
Released on December 5, 2024
In this compelling episode of NPR's Wild Card, host Rachel Martin engages in a thought-provoking and intimate conversation with the versatile actor John Lithgow. Breaking away from traditional interview formats, the episode employs an interactive game using a special deck of cards that delve into profound life questions, allowing Lithgow to share personal stories, insights, and reflections on his multifaceted career and personal experiences.
Introduction: A Multifaceted Talent
Rachel Martin opens the episode by highlighting John Lithgow's extensive and diverse career. From iconic roles such as Reverend Shaw Moore in Footloose (00:01) to the patriarch Dick Solomon in 3rd Rock from the Sun, Lithgow has consistently showcased his ability to embody a wide range of characters with depth and nuance. Martin emphasizes Lithgow's commitment to his craft, referencing his recent works including the Hulu series The Old Man, the film Conclave, and the animated movie Spellbound.
“John Lithgow seems to have done all the things theater, movies, TV, good guys, bad guys, lots of bad guys, or just maybe complicated characters.” (01:04)
Childhood and Family Dynamics
The conversation begins with a nostalgic dive into Lithgow's childhood. When asked about an experience that revealed his parents' humanity, Lithgow recounts a moment from fifth grade where he walked in on his parents in an intimate setting.
“In fifth grade, I did walk in on them making love at like seven in the morning under a great big quilt. I didn't see anything fleshly, but it was clear what was going on.” (00:25)
This revelation underscores the universal realization of parents as complex individuals, not just authority figures, shaping Lithgow's understanding of human relationships from a young age.
Career Choices: From Painter to Actor
Lithgow shares reflections on his career trajectory, revealing that he initially aspired to be a painter. Despite growing up in a theater family, he did not consider acting until his late teens.
“I fully intended to be a painter. I was quite committed to it. From as long as I can remember, everybody praised me for my drawings...” (07:07)
However, encouragement from his parents and his eventual pivot to acting marked a significant turning point. Lithgow discusses the influence of his father’s struggles in the theater industry, which initially led to a preference for more stable career paths. Ultimately, Lithgow's passion for acting prevailed, leading to a flourishing career that honors both his artistic instincts and his father's legacy.
“He struggled terribly. It was a very tough life for him. And I think he just felt the need to spare me that.” (08:25)
Reflections on Theater and Recent Projects
When prompted to daydream about a period in his life, Lithgow reminisces about his early years in New York theater during the 1970s. He describes the vibrant and relentless pace of acting on Broadway, collaborating with now-renowned actors like Mandy Patinkin and Meryl Streep.
“In any given year in the 1970s in New York, I probably was acting on stage on Broadway on about 300 of the 365 nights.” (09:27)
Lithgow expresses a profound connection to the theater, valuing the deep emotional engagement and collaborative spirit it fosters.
“The theater is where you feel like you're using absolutely everything you've got and you're in charge of the story.” (10:53)
Emotional Depth and the Acting Process
During the game, Lithgow grapples with understanding emotions, ultimately choosing to skip the question about which emotion he understands better than others.
“I'm in the emotion business, you know, of tracking people's emotions, you know, imitating them and summoning them up. What do I understand? I don't.” (17:13)
He candidly discusses his tendency to agree with others and his lack of defensiveness, portraying himself as a collaborative and open-minded individual.
“I tend to agree with criticism of me a little too readily... I'm not all that defensive.” (18:17)
Philosophical Musings on Reality and Death
In the final round of the game, Lithgow addresses profound philosophical questions. When asked if there's more to reality than we can see or touch, he maintains a simplistic view, seeing death as definitive.
“I think of death as death. I don't think there's life after death or a soul after death.” (24:25)
However, after Rachel shares her belief in experiencing a person’s presence post-death, Lithgow recounts his own confrontation with mortality. He describes the sudden passing of a close friend from a heart attack and reflects on his personal battle with cancer, which has shaped his acceptance of mortality.
“I just know it's coming. Yeah, it's coming. And I think the best thing is to have a gracious ending.” (27:39)
Sources of Hope and Personal Life
When asked what consistently gives him hope, Lithgow speaks tenderly about his granddaughter, highlighting the joy and optimism she brings into his life despite limited time together.
“My little granddaughter... Just watching it happen and just feeling the excitement of it and loving it so much.” (29:54)
He also touches on his fears for the future, particularly concerning climate change, illustrating the balance between hope and apprehension in his worldview.
“Hope and fear. I think you just have to be accustomed to that in your life and deal with it.” (31:23)
Memorable Moments: A Life in Performance
In the episode's concluding segment, Lithgow shares a poignant memory from his role as King Lear in Central Park. The emotional climax of the performance left a lasting impact on him, intertwining his real emotions with those of his character.
“It was so full of emotion. I just played frigging King Lear. So, you know, your emotions are just percolating to the point where you're bursting.” (32:22)
Closing Thoughts: Embracing the Full Spectrum of Life
Rachel Martin wraps up the episode by celebrating Lithgow's openness and the depth of their conversation. She invites listeners to explore more episodes of Wild Card, including one featuring the charming Ted Danson and an upcoming interview with comedian Ilana Glaser.
“If you like this episode, go listen to my episode with Ted Danson... Next week on Wildcard, we talk to Ilana Glaser...” (34:50)
John Lithgow’s participation in this episode of Wild Card offers listeners an intimate glimpse into the life and mind of a seasoned actor. Through personal anecdotes, philosophical discussions, and heartfelt reflections, Lithgow conveys a profound understanding of life's complexities, emphasizing the importance of meaningful endings and the enduring hope inspired by family.
Notable Quotes:
- “I think of death as death. I don't think there's life after death or a soul after death.” (24:25)
- “The theater is where you feel like you're using absolutely everything you've got and you're in charge of the story.” (10:53)
- “My little granddaughter... Just watching it happen and just feeling the excitement of it and loving it so much.” (29:54)
- “Hope and fear. I think you just have to be accustomed to that in your life and deal with it.” (31:23)
This episode serves as a testament to John Lithgow’s remarkable ability to intertwine his personal experiences with his professional journey, offering listeners a deeply engaging and reflective narrative on life, art, and the pursuit of a meaningful existence.