Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Episode Summary: "Joy Harjo thinks writing can heal regret"
Release Date: April 24, 2025
In this compelling episode of Wild Card with Rachel Martin, host Rachel Martin engages in a profound conversation with renowned poet and musician Joy Harjo. Breaking away from traditional interview formats, the episode delves deep into Harjo's life, exploring her experiences, creative processes, and the transformative power of writing and music.
1. Journey to Self-Discovery and Creativity
Joy Harjo shares her transformative journey from a challenging childhood to becoming one of America's most revered poets. Growing up in Oklahoma as a member of the Muscogee Creek Nation, Harjo faced significant adversity, including her stepfather's suppression of her creativity.
Joy Harjo [02:09]: "Every poet kind of has their themes, and I realized mine is transformation. What happens, you know, in those transformative spaces."
Harjo emphasizes the pivotal role that creativity played in her healing process, stating that storytelling and poetry were not just passions but necessities for her survival and self-expression.
2. Escaping into Imagination: Memories from Youth
Harjo recounts her teenage years, describing how she sought solace in solitude to escape the chaos of a large household. Her "closet" became a sanctuary where she could immerse herself in drawing and dreaming.
Joy Harjo [02:37]: "I would escape into the closet... that's where I find things. That's where I find images and sounds and fresh ideas."
She likens adolescence to a chrysalis stage, a period of profound transformation filled with creative potential.
Joy Harjo [03:27]: "I think of adolescence as being like a chrysalis moment... there's a lot of innate power, creative power, in that."
3. The Power of Place and Heritage
Discussing the places that shaped her, Harjo reflects on both physical locations and her "dreaming realm." Visits to Fort Gibson Lake with her family provided moments of respite and connection with nature, symbolizing the elemental influence of her heritage.
Joy Harjo [06:18]: "Going to the lake... it was taking us out of the ordinary in a way. Taking us out of the ordinary world to the water, the place of water."
Her dreams from childhood, vividly recalling places like Egypt, highlight her deep-seated connection to a broader consciousness and the limitless realms of imagination.
4. Pivotal Crossroads and Embracing the Arts
A significant turning point in Harjo's life was her decision to attend the Institute of American Indian Arts instead of Chilocco Indian School. This choice immersed her in a vibrant community of native artists, providing the support and environment necessary for her creative flourishing.
Joy Harjo [10:35]: "I felt I was in my place... and I felt I was in my place and before I had felt almost misplaced."
Harjo credits this decision with saving her life, allowing her to embrace her artistic identity amidst personal and familial turmoil.
5. Healing Through Poetry and Music
Harjo discusses her latest book, "For a Girl Becoming," a children's book that transcends age to address themes of growth and healing. She connects this work to another book, "Washing My Mother's Body," where she channels unresolved grief into poetry, illustrating the therapeutic potential of creative expression.
Joy Harjo [17:14]: "It's a book for coming of age... I want to be helpful. I think even in trauma, that's where you learn yourself."
Additionally, Harjo shares her experience performing at the iconic Blue Note in New York, highlighting the interplay between her poetry and music as avenues for personal risk and artistic collaboration.
Joy Harjo [21:06]: "I played a song at the Blue Note... to me that was like bungee jumping from the bridge of the Royal Gorge."
6. Evolving Beliefs and Spirituality
Harjo reflects on her evolving understanding of God, transitioning from traditional religious representations to a more personal and encompassing spirituality rooted in nature and kindness.
Joy Harjo [27:08]: "The way that I find a peace in it is kindness, is knowing that there's kindness, then it can all make sense."
She envisions a God imbued with immense creativity and love, connecting all forms of life and the natural world.
7. Connection with the Departed and Ancestral Ties
The conversation delves into Harjo's experiences with loss and feeling connected to loved ones who have passed away. She shares intimate moments of sensing her mother's presence and the enduring bonds with her ancestors.
Joy Harjo [30:31]: "I saw her, like, in my... It was like she was there. And we just talked for a moment... and then she was gone."
Harjo emphasizes the cultural significance of ancestral connections within her community, portraying them as integral to one's existence and continuity.
8. Cherished Memories and Lasting Joy
In the episode's final segment, Harjo reflects on a profoundly joyful moment: holding her daughter after birth. This memory stands in stark contrast to her earlier struggles, symbolizing hope and the enduring power of love amidst adversity.
Joy Harjo [34:01]: "Holding my daughter after she was born... I was so happy... I wanted her and I welcomed her and I was just so happy."
Conclusion
Rachel Martin and Joy Harjo's conversation on Wild Card offers listeners an intimate glimpse into Harjo's life, artistry, and the healing powers of creativity. Through her stories and reflections, Harjo illustrates how writing and music can navigate and mend the deepest regrets, fostering transformation and resilience.
For those seeking inspiration from a master of poetic expression and resilience, this episode is a must-listen. Joy Harjo's insights into the human spirit and the arts provide valuable lessons on overcoming adversity and embracing one's true self.