Michael Shannon thinks you look ridiculous when you shout

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin: Michael Shannon Thinks You Look Ridiculous When You Shout

Released on January 23, 2025

Introduction

In this captivating episode of Wild Card with Rachel Martin, NPR's acclaimed host Rachel Martin engages in a deeply personal and unorthodox conversation with the multifaceted actor and director, Michael Shannon. Breaking away from traditional interview formats, Martin utilizes the show's signature deck of thought-provoking cards to explore Michael's inner world, his career, personal philosophies, and creative endeavors. This long-form summary delves into the rich discussions, insights, and heartfelt revelations shared during their time together.

Acting Career and Directorial Debut

Rachel Martin opens the conversation by lauding Michael Shannon's remarkable acting prowess. She highlights his memorable performances in films like Groundhog Day, Revolutionary Road, Nocturnal Animals, Boardwalk Empire, and Nine Perfect Strangers. Martin emphasizes Shannon’s unique ability to captivate audiences with his intense gaze and emotional depth, often overshadowing even the most prominent co-stars.

"The primary thing that an actor is supposed to do is disappear," Shannon explains at [01:28], illustrating his dedication to immersing himself fully into his roles. This philosophy not only defines his acting style but also extends into his directorial debut, Eric LaRue. Martin notes the film’s emotionally charged narrative about a mother grappling with her teenage son's heinous actions. Shannon shares his initial apprehensions about directing but describes a transformative experience during location scouting that solidified his vision for the film [11:08].

Personal Insights and Reflections

The conversation takes a reflective turn as Shannon delves into his teenage years, discussing the courage it took to pursue acting despite personal challenges. He recounts moving between Kentucky and Chicago during his adolescence, which fostered his resilience and passion for the arts [04:01]. Shannon’s mature outlook on criticism, shaped by over three decades in the industry, reveals his balanced perspective on success and failure [06:10].

One poignant moment occurs when Shannon discusses what parent figures taught him. He credits his father with instilling a love for jazz and cinema, despite their differing lifestyles and his father’s initial fears about his acting career [07:10]. This appreciation underscores the complex yet foundational relationships that have influenced his creative journey.

Music and R.E.M. Tour

Shannon’s artistic expression extends beyond acting into music, as he shares his enthusiasm for covering R.E.M.'s Fables of the Reconstruction album with his friend Jason Nardusi [15:07]. He describes how R.E.M.'s music provided solace during difficult times, helping him navigate existential pain and absurdity [15:16]. Shannon articulates the profound connection between public performance and personal intimacy in music, emphasizing the communal aspect of singing [16:11].

Perceptions and Personal Quirks

A humorous yet revealing segment arises when Martin pulls a question about Shannon’s walk. He candidly addresses misconceptions about his gait, which often leads others to believe he’s injured, despite his insistence otherwise [17:46]. This anecdote highlights the misunderstandings that can arise from subtle personal characteristics and reflects Shannon’s introspective nature.

Family and Philosophical Views

Shannon opens up about his role as a father, expressing unwavering love and fascination for his daughters [29:14]. He contrasts his own experiences with his parents, revealing a conscious effort to adopt progressive parenting practices while acknowledging his imperfections [30:28]. This vulnerability provides listeners with a glimpse into the balancing act between personal growth and familial responsibilities.

Philosophically, Shannon contemplates the concept of smallness in the universe. He describes moments of peace and awe while observing nature, such as peaceful afternoons by a duck pond in Budapest [31:09]. This perspective aligns with his reflections on the impermanence of human achievements, echoing themes from his film Eric LaRue and his reading of The Sixth Extinction [31:09].

Closing Remarks

As the episode concludes, Shannon participates in the show's signature "memory time machine" segment. He nostalgically recounts a serene boat ride on the Danube River in Budapest, a moment of profound peace and happiness that he wishes to revisit [33:52]. This heartfelt reflection encapsulates the episode’s overarching themes of introspection, resilience, and the pursuit of meaning.

Notable Quotes

• "The primary thing that an actor is supposed to do is disappear. So I'm basically like disappearing all the time or attempting to." — Michael Shannon [01:28]

• "Love becomes hopefully less transactional and more just a state of being, you know." — Michael Shannon [22:59]

• "I think if it's something you could put into words, maybe you wouldn't need to sing." — Michael Shannon [16:11]

• "Change is the only reality." — Michael Shannon [27:55]

• "I'm pretty. I've, you know, I've gotten rave reviews. I've got terrible reviews. I've seen fire and I've seen rain." — Michael Shannon [06:10]

Conclusion

This episode of Wild Card with Rachel Martin offers an intimate exploration of Michael Shannon's life, art, and philosophies. Through a series of thoughtfully selected questions, Shannon reveals the layers of his persona—from his steadfast dedication to his craft and his foray into directing, to his heartfelt reflections on love, family, and existence. Martin's skillful guiding through the Wild Card deck ensures a conversation that is both engaging and enlightening, providing listeners with a profound understanding of one of today's most compelling actors and creatives.

For more insightful conversations, tune into Wildcard and support NPR by subscribing to Wild Card+ for exclusive bonus content.

Transcript

[Advertisement Speaker]

This message comes from Intuit TurboTax now taxes is matching with an expert backed by tech to get you the most money [e-mail] experts only available with TurboTax Live. See guarantee [e-mail] guarantees this message comes from Grammarly. 89% of business leaders say AI is a top priority. The right choice is crucial, which is why teams at one third of Fortune 500 companies use Grammarly. With top tier security credentials and 15 years of experience in responsible AI, Grammarly isn't just another AI communication assistant. It's how companies like yours increase productivity while keeping data protected and private. See why 70,000 teams trust [e-mail] Enterprise.

[Rachel Martin]

What does age teach you about love?

[Michael Shannon]

Oh my God. You know, when you're young, love is very self serving. And then as you get older, you realize that it's probably, probably ultimately more important to love others regardless of what you get in return.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one and to flip one question back on me. My guest this week is actor Michael Shannon.

[Michael Shannon]

The primary thing that an actor is supposed to do is disappear. So I'm basically like disappearing all the time or attempting to.

[Rachel Martin]

Michael Shannon's first role in a big movie was as a young newlywed in Groundhog Day. It's a small part, and his big moment comes when Bill Murray's character hands him a couple tickets to the local WrestleMania event. And Shannon goes berserk with glee. And I am daring you to go back and watch that scene and try to take your eyes off him. There's something in Michael Shannon's eyes that makes it impossible to look away. And it's no small thing to do that when sharing a scene with Bill Murray. And it's like that in every movie he's in, like the 2008 movie Revolutionary Road, which stars Kate Winslet and Leo DiCaprio, two of the biggest names in the business. But Michael Shannon steals every scene he's in. His unintentional thievery continues in the 2016 film Nocturnal animals or the HBO show Boardwalk Empire. And he was, hands down, the best thing about the Hulu show Nine Perfect Strangers. In my opinion. I could go on. His eyes, yes, and his ability to rage on screen is unmatched. But what really pulls you into one of his performances is the tenderness underneath it all. To occupy both those emotional places simultaneously. Well that's why none of us can look away. Michael Shannon is turning his own eyes behind the camera in his newest project. It's a movie called Eric Larue, and it is his directorial debut. And Michael Shannon is here right now to play Wild Card. Hi.

[Michael Shannon]

Wow, what an introduction. Thank you, Rachel.

[Rachel Martin]

You're very welcome. Are you a Michael or a Mike or. It depends on who you're talking to.

[Michael Shannon]

I let whoever's talking to me pick whatever comes off trippingly off the tongue.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, we'll see. Do you have a middle name?

[Michael Shannon]

Corbett. It's a family name. When I was a kid, for a little while, I thought my middle name was Corvette, but I was mistaken.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm sorry. I'm sure that was a grief you had to work through.

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah, it was a hard process. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, so are you ready to play this game?

[Michael Shannon]

I'm ready.

[Rachel Martin]

First three cards. Here you go. One, Two or three?

[Michael Shannon]

Um, three.

[Rachel Martin]

Three. What do you admire about your teenage self?

[Michael Shannon]

Oh, what a lovely question. Well, I was a survivor. You know, I'd say the years from, like, 12 to 16 were a real gauntlet because my mother lived in Kentucky, my father lived in Chicago. So my childhood, I spent in Kentucky with my mother. But when I started high school in my adolescence, I moved up to live with my father. In that period of time is when I started getting into acting. And I guess I had some guts to get into that. Just showing up and auditioning for the school play and getting little opportunities to do that. And then, you know, after I got out of high school, I was still a teenager and I was in Chicago, and. And I started going down into the city and auditioning for plays in the city and. And started getting parts and, you know, very small, like, storefront theater productions. And that took a fair amount of guts. I think it does take a lot.

[Rachel Martin]

Of courage to stand up on a stage and try to inhabit another character at that age takes guts.

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah. Well, I think maybe I didn't feel like I had much to lose. You know, it was like I was kind of a loner, I guess when I was a kid, I was kind of awkward to begin with. It didn't really matter. I guess at the end of the day, whether they thought I was, you know, good or not, it really didn't make a difference.

[Rachel Martin]

Which is pretty mature to have that revelation as a teenager. Is that still something that you're like, yeah, it doesn't matter. I'm good.

[Michael Shannon]

Well, I don't know. I mean, a lot of these projects are a lot of Work. You put a lot into them, and it can't help but smart a little bit if nobody pays any attention. But I've been doing this now for, geez, almost about 35 years. So, yeah, I'm pretty. I've, you know, I've gotten rave reviews. I've got terrible reviews. I've gotten in different reviews. I've, you know, I. It's kind of. I've seen fire and I've seen rain, you know, so. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, this is the last question in this round.

[Michael Shannon]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

One. Two or three?

[Michael Shannon]

Three.

[Rachel Martin]

What's something a parent figure taught you to appreciate?

[Michael Shannon]

Oh, that's deep. That's really deep. Parent. And it's interesting because you say parent figure, so that does that. That doesn't necessarily mean parent.

[Rachel Martin]

It doesn't. Because some people have situations where their parents aren't the ones who are teaching them to appreciate things. So, you know, we choose the words carefully.

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is fascinating that I can't come up with an answer to this question. I mean, I guess maybe the reason I'm struggling with it is my parents are so different from me. Like, they. They live very. They live very different lives. And they had very different priorities, I think, than I do. But I was very. When I was living in Chicago, I was very close with my father. And I mean, I get my appreciation of jazz definitely from my father because my father had a huge collection of music. And I discovered a lot of my favorite music from listening to his CDs. And we would also, you know, watch. He would show me movies. He really did educate me about culture. Even though he was terrified that I was becoming an actor initially. Cause he thought I, you know, would be destitute or something.

[Rachel Martin]

But that's pretty remarkable that even if your relationship ended up being strained, you just credited him with giving you the two big loves of your life in terms of movies and acting and music.

[Michael Shannon]

And music. Yeah. Yeah. It's true.

[Advertisement Speaker]

This message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices like full service, wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on thinkorswim visit schwab.com to learn more.

This message comes from CarMax. Searching for your next car. Don't settle. Thrive at CarMax. It's easy to shop online or in person with upfront pricing and tools designed to help. Finding a car you love has never been easier. Plus, you can sell or trade in your current vehicle with an online offer in minutes. No strings attached. Start shopping now to find a car you'll [e-mail] CarMax the way it should be this message comes from CarMax. Boldly searching for your next used vehicle. With CarMax, you don't have to settle on anything when it comes to your ride. Instead, steer clear of the ordinary and buy the car that's right for you. Because CarMax makes it easy to stop settling and find a car you'll love today. Start shopping [e-mail] CarMax the way car.

Buying should be this message comes from Intuit TurboTax now taxes is matching with an expert backed by tech to get you the most money [e-mail] experts only available with TurboTax Live. See guarantee [e-mail] guarantees.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, so we're going to pull back a little bit and talk about your work, your creative life because you've got lots of stuff cooking right now. You're about to go on tour with your REM cover band, which we will get to in a moment. But you also have this new film out, which you directed. It's called Eric LaRue. And to just give a quick summary, it's about a mother who is trying to deal with the fact that her teenage son murdered two of his classmates. So this is. It's a very sober movie. It's emotionally complicated.

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

And you were in charge. You were the director of this thing. Did you find that you were well suited to this task, directing?

[Michael Shannon]

Oh, well, it's strange. Yeah. I showed up for the prep period. I was pretty well convinced that I had no idea at all what I was doing. They gave me a little office with a desk in it and said, okay, here's your office. And I would sit at the desk and look around and think, this is a mistake. But then we started scouting locations and it started to click for me. Like, I remember when we were looking for the house, the LaRue house, their home, and the production designer put together this big, long list of homes to look at. And, and, but as soon as I walked in the first house, I said, this is the house. This is it. And the production designer and the producers, they were like, well, it's really small. It might be hard. La de da da da. I said, well, I understand that and I agree with you. It will be hard, but this is the house. And they said, well, we have like 10 other houses to look at. Can we at least look at them? And I said, okay. And so we drove all over Wilmington, North Carolina, where We shot the film, and I looked at all the other houses.

[Rachel Martin]

Good for you.

[Michael Shannon]

There were some very nice houses. Beautiful. And we got to the end and they said, well, what do you think? And I said, yeah, it's the first one. It's the first house we looked at. That's the house. It's like it was built to make this movie. It couldn't be any more perfect.

[Rachel Martin]

You're like, seeing these other houses only made me feel more resolute about my choice.

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah. But when I got on set, I had. Considering how upsetting and dark this film is, it's a little odd to be saying this, but I think I had the most fun I've ever had in my life, really. Ever.

[Rachel Martin]

Of your life?

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah. So I had a vocal coach on George and Tammy, and he very graciously agreed to come because there's a scene in the movie where they're singing a song at a church. And he tapped me on the shoulder at one point. He's like, you're like a little boy. You're just like a little boy running around. He's like, I've never seen you this happy. And. And it really. It really touched me when he said that, because I'm not even sure I was aware of it.

[Rachel Martin]

But that seems like a thing you'd.

[Michael Shannon]

Want to do again then, you know, you would think. But I need to find another piece of material that inspires me that much. I don't think I'd be a great. Like, there's some people that are, like, directors for hire, you know, and they'll just show up.

[Rachel Martin]

And I feel like everyone in Hollywood has directed csi. Like, it was just like. Everyone.

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I can't. I don't know if I'd be able to do that. I really have to be. I have to find another script that moves me as much as this one did.

[Rachel Martin]

What moves you about the music of REM because you spend a lot of time in those songs, you and your good friend Jason. Am I saying Jason's name right? Nardasi.

[Michael Shannon]

Oh, Nardusi.

[Rachel Martin]

Nardusi.

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Your band is deep into R.E.M. you guys are touring, you're performing these songs. How come?

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah, Well, I mean, look, like earlier in our conversation when we were talking about, you know, the dark ages of my life, I took a lot of solace in the music of REM and feels like this band made these songs just for you when you listen to them, to help you navigate the pain and absurdity of existence. And there's so many people that feel that way. And yet that's the thing about really incredible music, I feel, is that it's very public and very private at the same time.

[Rachel Martin]

Can I ask you about singing? The act of singing and, like, what you get out of it?

[Michael Shannon]

Oh, gosh, it's very hard to put into words. I mean, I think if it's something you could put into words, maybe you would, you know, maybe you wouldn't need to sing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But, yeah, it's just a real sense of communion with people. Like, when we do these shows, a lot of the people in the audience, they're not there necessarily because of, like, me or Jason or any of that. They're there because they love these songs and they just seem to appreciate even, you know, it's just a version of it. It's not the real thing, but they just to get that opportunity.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you feel like getting back to the game? Actually, I don't care if you feel like it. We're going to do it. Is that okay? Because we have more.

[Michael Shannon]

Yes.

[Rachel Martin]

It wasn't very polite of me. I don't care what you think. I do, actually.

[Michael Shannon]

Okay, well, these are a different color.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, these are different color. This is round two.

[Michael Shannon]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

It's sort of like insights. Insights into your life.

[Michael Shannon]

Insights.

[Rachel Martin]

One, two or three?

[Michael Shannon]

Number two.

[Rachel Martin]

Number two. Oh, man, I love this one. I've never asked anyone this one, so we'll see how it goes. How would you describe the way you walk?

[Michael Shannon]

That is, we have found the right question.

[Rachel Martin]

You have an answer for this question?

[Michael Shannon]

This is like. It really is a stone cold issue in my life because everyone always asks me why I'm limping.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you limp?

[Michael Shannon]

Clearly, I don't.

[Rachel Martin]

What?

[Michael Shannon]

I don't think I'm limping. I think it's just the way I walk. But something about the way I walk leads people to believe that I'm injured somehow.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, that is deep.

[Michael Shannon]

Particularly if I'm tired. The more tired I get, the more exacerbated this gait becomes. And I've been trying to figure out why.

[Rachel Martin]

Not to put you on the couch here, but what does it make you feel when people think you're limping and you're not limping? I mean, I feel like that would have an imprint on one's psyche to think you're navigating the world one way.

[Michael Shannon]

I must confess, sometimes I find it irritating. I'm like. Just because it's persistent and it's like. It's kind of a mystery to me. Like, I was in Budapest, Hungary, over the summer. And there was this coffee house that I would go to from time to time. And one time the guy behind the counter said, are you okay? Did you hurt your foot? I'm like, I'm fine. I didn't hurt. What are you talking about? Even if I did hurt my foot, what would you do about it? And then I felt terrible. I was like, this poor guy. He was a really nice guy, and he was just. You know, it's just people worry about you, and then. But you're like, your worry is unnecessary. It's unwarranted. I'm fine. But maybe there. I don't know. Maybe there is something wrong.

[Rachel Martin]

I have a tendency to sigh a lot, and it makes people think I'm exasperated or depressed or despondent or something, and they'll be like, are you okay? What's going on? I'm like. I'm literally breathing. That's all. I'm. I'm just like. I just like to feel the air come in and the air come out. It's just. I'm totally fine. So I.

[Michael Shannon]

Which is very healthy.

[Rachel Martin]

I think so. But it triggers something else for other people, and they think there's something wrong. So I empathize with that notion of being perceived differently. Okay, three more. One, two or three?

[Michael Shannon]

Three.

[Rachel Martin]

One, two, three. In moments of conflict, do you step in or step back?

[Michael Shannon]

Oh, boy.

[Rachel Martin]

Are you a stepper inner or stepper outer? You have a skip and a flip.

[Michael Shannon]

Well, I don't want to skip it. You know, ideally, I step out. I used to be very argumentative, but. And it's not that that's, you know, entirely gone away, but I kind of want it to. I did a play once that had the phrase cultivate detachment in it, and I think that's based on a Buddhist idea of. Or a philosophical idea of, you know, releasing yourself from the bondage of your attachment, you know, not just to other things or people or whatever, but to your own ideas or beliefs. I'm all for it. Yes. So, ideally, as I progress through my life, I'll get closer. Closer and closer to that. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

What if you witness conflict between other people that's not yours? Do you feel a compulsion or a drive to step into remedy or step back to let it play out?

[Michael Shannon]

Well, I guess it depends on what the origin of the conflict is or what it's about. You know, I mean, a lot of times when I. I see people out in public who are enraged about something or angry, and you get this opportunity a lot. Now with people on their phones to really witness like what somebody looks and acts and sounds like when they're super upset at somebody about something, it really winds up looking kind of ridiculous and embarrassing. And you're like, oh my. Oh, is that what I look like when I'm all shouty? You know, it's. You're like, oh, that's really.

[Rachel Martin]

Shouty is not a good look on anyone.

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah, yeah. That's kind of pathetic. And I'm sure, I'm pretty sure, like whatever they're so upset about right now is actually not that big a deal, you know?

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Three more in this round. One, two or three.

[Michael Shannon]

One.

[Rachel Martin]

What does age teach you about love?

[Michael Shannon]

Oh my God. Oh, dear.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, no. Is that a good oh my God or a bad one?

[Michael Shannon]

No, it just moved me. They're, they're, they're very linked. Obviously age you, I think, you know, when you're young, love is very self. Can be very self serving. You're like, you want love from other people. You want to have love. It's something you want for yourself because it feels, you know, wonderful to feel like you're loved and. Or to have, you know, a relationship. And then as you get older, you realize that it's probably ultimately more important to love others regardless of what you get in return. It becomes hopefully less transactional and more just a state of being, you know, which is. Can be hard to accept, actually. Kind of going back to that place that I was at where I was younger, where I was, you know, okay, being alone and. But with the new, with more, I don't know, more wisdom, some sort of wisdom that I've accrued along the way, hopefully. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Had a conversation with my sister that you just reminded me of. That is. It's a thing that I've learned as you get old about love, that it's just you. It's all you got, actually, is you.

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

And if you can't be okay with you, then it's harder to love people without expectation or attachment or consequence.

[Michael Shannon]

Right.

[Rachel Martin]

And that's hard. I don't think that comes naturally to any of us. Is that recognition and being able to then take people where they're at love without expecting some reciprocity. That's a tough lesson.

[Michael Shannon]

Well, and it's liberating in a way. If you can really do it in an honest, authentic way. It's actually very freeing. But it, unfortunately, it seems to be something you can't get to without experiencing a fair amount of pain.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah.

[Advertisement Speaker]

This message comes from Grainger as A maintenance specialist for a historic high rise. You know that vintage charm historically needs constant attention. Which is why when it's time to upgrade turn of the century mechanicals, they turn to Grainger. With easy access to a million plus products and the scale to deliver when and where you need them. The right tools and supplies are never far away. So you can keep that vintage building running like new. Call clickgranger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. This message comes from Warby Parker. What makes a great pair of glasses at Warby Parker? It's all the invisible extras without the extra cost, like free adjustments for life. Find your [e-mail] or visit one of their hundreds of stores around the country. This message comes from Spectrum Business. Small business owners put in unlimited hours, unlimited effort and unlimited passion. Why? Because only you know that your business has unlimited potential. That's why Spectrum Business provides fast, reliable Internet, advanced WI fi with security shield and an unlimited mobile line, all for one low price. Built to work for a small business budget. Connect your business to unlimited possibilities. Learn [e-mail] business this message comes from Carvana.

Discover your car's worth with Carvana Value Tracker. Stay up to date when your car's value changes. Always know your car's worth with Carvana Value Tracker.

[Rachel Martin]

So now it's our last round.

[Michael Shannon]

Okie dokie.

[Rachel Martin]

This is the beliefs round, which we've already sort of touched on, but Here we go. 1, 2 or 3?

[Michael Shannon]

3.

[Rachel Martin]

3. Was there a bedrock truth in your life that you found out wasn't true?

[Michael Shannon]

I don't think so. I've always thought that life was very, you know, chaotic and kind of unreliable. You know, I guess the most bedrock truth I could claim to have is that, you know, change is the only reality. But it does actually seem to be true.

[Rachel Martin]

Are you comfortable in that? I mean, has it always been, Sometimes.

[Michael Shannon]

I am, sometimes I'm not, but I can't imagine it any other way. You know, when you, when you act, you, you create these little societies or civilizations to create some piece of art and then you finish and they. And they disappear. And it's kind of like the rhythm of my life. And there's certain relationships that, that carry on through those or people that you work with on multiple occasions. But, but for the most part, you get very accustomed to things not being, you know, stable or reliable or things changing.

[Rachel Martin]

You know, how does having a family play into that? Is that a constant for you?

[Michael Shannon]

That is, yeah, particularly my daughters. I mean, that's the one thing, you know, that that won't change is I love them very much and I always will. And, and they're my, you know, favorite people and I'm fascinated by them. And if they're anything like me, they'll probably, probably be a period of time where I don't interact with them very much, you know.

[Rachel Martin]

So are you preparing yourself for that?

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah, well, my 16 year old is already a very cosmopolitan young woman, but she still, she makes time for me now and then. Yeah, but. But she's so, she's so healthy. I mean, it's all so healthy. Yeah, it's just, it's exactly what should be happening.

[Rachel Martin]

And, but that's a great thing because you had a different experience with your parents and I imagine it informed your choices about how you wanted to raise kids and how you wanted to be a parent.

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah, I get uncomfortable taking too much credit for it. I definitely think there was some step forward, but I also make tons of mistakes, just like everybody.

[Rachel Martin]

I don't believe it. Me either. Perfect.

[Michael Shannon]

You heard it here on npr.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, this is the last one. One, two or three?

[Michael Shannon]

Two.

[Rachel Martin]

Two. When do you think about your smallness in the universe?

[Michael Shannon]

Oh, boy. A lot.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you?

[Michael Shannon]

I really do. I mean, I'm just a big nature lover. You know, I love nature. I love the earth, I love, you know, the, the galaxy, the universe. You know, a lot of mornings after I drop my younger daughter, if I take her to school, there's a duck pond in the park by her school, and I'll just go sit there and stare at the birds and the trees and, and, and that's all, you know, so much bigger. I made a movie that came out called the End, about this family that lives in a bunker underground. And, and because for research going into it, I read the. The Sixth Extinction. There's a line in the book where the author says, you know, I'm paraphrasing, but she says something in the effect. Keep in mind that someday everything that humanity has ever been or done or created will be like a stripe in the. In the ground.

[Rachel Martin]

Is that a liberating feeling for you?

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah, I think so. I think ultimately it's liberating. I mean, you know, I'm not hoping that someone like, erects a statue of me somewhere or something.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm not getting that vibe from you.

[Michael Shannon]

Yeah, no, I would say that the primary thing that an actor is supposed to do is disappear. So I'm basically like disappearing all the time, which is. Or attempting to. So, yeah, I like. I don't need. I don't need to feel overly significant.

[Rachel Martin]

We end the show the same way every time with a trip in our memory time machine. Okay, so in the memory time machine, you choose one moment from your past that you would like to go back to. Not to change anything, just to linger in a little while longer. What moment do you choose?

[Michael Shannon]

Boy, that's so hard. Doesn't. Does everybody struggle with it?

[Rachel Martin]

It's interesting people's reactions. Some people go right away. Other people think, oh, dear.

[Michael Shannon]

Not that one. Well, this is fairly recent, I guess, but over the summer I was in Budapest, Hungary, working, and the river's there. You can get a boat. It's really nice. They give you cheese and fruit and all these things. And you sit back there and yeah, I was on this. I was riding on this boat and it was about a half hour. And, you know, you go under all the bridges. There's a lot of bridges on the river there. And there's a beautiful island there called Margaret island that you go past. And I just felt so peaceful and serene and happy on this boat. And you go by the, the Parliament. They have an extraordinary parliament building right on the river. And the sun was going down and the Parliament lights up at night. And, yeah, it's kind of the happiest I remember feeling recently, but I wish I was back on that boat.

[Rachel Martin]

Michael Shannon's new movie Eric Larue will be out this spring. You can see him on tour covering REM's Fables of the Reconstruction album this winter. Michael, thank you so much for talking with me. I really appreciate it.

[Michael Shannon]

My pleasure.

[Rachel Martin]

If you like this conversation, go back and check out my episode with Mark Duplass. He is another very sensitive soul, and it's worth listening to the episode just to hear him describe the experience of being on his elliptical trainer in his home gym and crying along to Taylor Swift songs. I promise it's uplifting. If you want more from Michael Shannon on Wildcard plus, this week, he tells me about his relationship with rules as a kid.

[Michael Shannon]

I wouldn't classify myself as a rebel, really, but I also was not fastidious about following the rules.

[Rachel Martin]

We'll also hear a little more from our David lynch interview about his connection to the cosmic world when he was a kid. You can hear that answer by signing up for Wildcard plus, which is a fantastic way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen sponsor free. Find out [e-mail] wildcard. This episode was produced by Romel Wood and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Robert Rodriguez. Wildcard's executive producer is Beth Donovan. Our theme music is by Ramtin Arablouei. You can reach out to [e-mail] we're going to shuffle the deck and we'll be back with more next week. Talk to you then.

[Advertisement Speaker]

This message comes from Bombas. Their slippers are designed with cushioning so every step feels marshmallowy soft. Plus, for every item purchased Bombas donates to someone in need. Go to bombas.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off your first order. This message comes from Bombas. Their socks are super plush, designed to support your arches and support people in need. One purchase equals one donated to those experiencing homelessness. Go to bombas.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off your first order.

This message comes from NPR sponsor Lisa Good sleep should come naturally, and with the new Natural Hybrid mattress, it can. A collaboration between Leesa and West Elm, the Natural Hybrid is expertly crafted from natural latex, Natur wool and certified safe foams to elevate your sleep sanctuary and support a greener tomorrow. Plus, every purchase helps fuel Lisa's work with shelters and those in need. Visit Lisa.com to learn more. That's Leesa.

Com.