Orville Peck killed his impostor syndrome

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin: Orville Peck Killed His Impostor Syndrome
Released June 5, 2025

Introduction to Orville Peck: A Mystery Unveiled

In the "Orville Peck Killed His Impostor Syndrome" episode of Wild Card with Rachel Martin, host Rachel Martin delves deep into the enigmatic world of country singer Orville Peck. Known for his masked persona and hauntingly beautiful voice, Orville Peck presents a multifaceted character that challenges conventional norms. Rachel aptly describes him as "full of apparent contradictions" – from his South African upbringing dancing ballet to his punk band days, to his transition into a celebrated country musician who guards his true identity behind a mask. This episode, named a Top 10 Podcast of 2024 by The New York Times, offers listeners an intimate look into Peck's life, fears, joys, and the journey he undertook to build meaning from his experiences.

Childhood Escapism: Building Fantasy Worlds
Timestamp: 00:17 – 05:56

Rachel begins by asking Orville about what he felt he was constantly chasing. He reflects, "I was chasing acceptance my whole life, but I have really worked not needing to chase that any longer" (00:20). Orville shares memories of his rich imagination during childhood, where he created "entire fantasy lands" to escape feelings of ostracization and bullying. This escapism was not just a retreat but a foundation for his creativity, helping him cope with being different. He recalls, "I think for any kid who feels kind of bullied or ostracized, it's incredibly difficult," emphasizing how his solitary playtime fostered resilience and creativity (04:03).

Connection to Nature: A South African Sanctuary
Timestamp: 06:03 – 08:56

Choosing to delve into a specific extraordinary place, Orville speaks passionately about the South African bush where he grew up. He describes it as a "deep connection to nature and animals," providing a sense of familiarity and comfort amidst his nomadic lifestyle. The sounds of doves and the rustling leaves create an atmosphere that feels "in sync with who I am" (07:28). Rachel relates this to her own memories of Idaho, highlighting the universal power of sensory experiences in evoking feelings of home (08:56).

Acts of Kindness: Feeling Loved Through Strangers
Timestamp: 09:01 – 11:00

Orville shares a poignant story about a fan diagnosed with stage four cancer who attended his meet-and-greet. She gifted him photographs of various motels, accompanied by a heartfelt letter expressing how his music had been a source of relief during her difficult times. He reflects, "It's a lucky thing in my mind that I get to be some kind of whatever. It might be relief for someone that's going through something" (09:10). Rachel remarks on the symbiotic relationship between vulnerability in art and the emotional support it fosters among listeners (10:26).

Embracing Vulnerability on Broadway: The 'Cabaret' Role
Timestamp: 12:27 – 17:04

Transitioning to his current venture, Rachel discusses Orville's role as the master of ceremonies in Broadway’s Cabaret. Orville reveals his deep-seated admiration for the show, having seen the movie adaptation as a teenager and participating in a school production as a dancer (13:01). He expresses how embodying the enigmatic MC allows him to explore themes of masks, control, and fascism, drawing parallels to his own masked persona. "There's a part of me that is extremely pragmatic and loves logic, order… and then there is a competing part that loves mystery, uncertainty, chaos," he explains (28:40). This duality mirrors the character he portrays, highlighting the intricate balance between his public image and personal identity.

Overcoming Impostor Syndrome: A Journey to Self-Acceptance
Timestamp: 17:19 – 21:38

In the Insights section, Rachel asks Orville what he feels he's constantly chasing. He candidly admits that he has "pretty successfully killed all my impostor syndrome at this point" (17:27). Orville attributes this transformation to his journey towards sobriety and self-awareness. He shares, "I’m just really happy with myself these days," reflecting on how overcoming personal challenges has fostered a genuine sense of self-acceptance (19:08). Rachel commends his progress, relating it to her own experience of quitting drinking, and they discuss the importance of recognizing the high cost of insecurities and the liberation that comes with self-acceptance.

Sobriety and Personal Growth: Choosing a Different Path
Timestamp: 19:25 – 21:36

Orville opens up about his struggle with alcohol, detailing how a tumultuous relationship and the pressures of his career led to increased dependency. The pandemic exacerbated his situation, culminating in a defining moment where he had to "lose his career for a moment while I went and got healthy and sober" (19:38). This pivotal decision underscored the realization that his habits were detrimental to his happiness and career. Orville emphasizes gratitude for his current state, stating, "I am so grateful for the things I have in my life, and I know that for me, drinking takes that away from me" (21:28). Rachel expresses her own journey towards sobriety, fostering a mutual understanding and support between the two.

Trust and Relationships: Building Stronger Bonds
Timestamp: 21:44 – 23:59

In another Insights segment, Rachel asks Orville about expressions of love he's working to improve. He identifies trust as a critical component, acknowledging his struggles due to past traumas and broken trust. "Trust with a partner especially encapsulates so many important things," he explains, discussing the importance of allowing a partner to be themselves without the fear of getting hurt (22:12). Orville reflects on his tendency to seek assurance in relationships and his ongoing efforts to cultivate genuine trust, highlighting personal growth and the complexities of maintaining healthy relationships (23:41).

Contemplating Mortality: Reflections on Death
Timestamp: 25:46 – 28:46

In the Beliefs section, Rachel inquires about how often Orville thinks about death. He reveals that he "now think about it a lot less" compared to his childhood, where the violent death of an uncle and the loss of a friend left a lasting impact (25:52). Orville admits that he doesn't believe in an afterlife, which sometimes leads to self-fear regarding mortality. However, he appreciates his current focus on the present, stating, "I don't even have time or space in my mind anymore to go there. But yeah, that's a good thing about death that much" (27:07). Rachel shares her own preoccupations with death, finding common ground in their mutual efforts to focus on living fully.

Embracing Mystery over Certainty: Balancing Order and Chaos
Timestamp: 28:35 – 30:20

When asked if he prefers mystery or certainty, Orville describes his personality as a blend of both. "There is a part of me that is extremely pragmatic and loves logic, order," he shares, alongside a "competing part" that thrives on mystery and adventure (28:46). This internal conflict underscores his artistic persona and personal life, where he balances the structured demands of his career with the unpredictable nature of creativity and personal relationships. Rachel connects this preference to Orville's masked identity, noting how it enhances the allure of his public persona (30:03).

Memory Time Machine: A Moment Lost in Time
Timestamp: 30:48 – 32:46

In the concluding Memory Time Machine segment, Orville reflects on a significant yet forgotten moment: his collaboration with Shania Twain on the song "Legends Never Die." Despite the surreal experience, he admits having no memories of making the music video due to personal turmoil at the time. "It's such a bummer for me because that was such a moment to be celebrated," he laments (30:48). This reflection highlights the profound impact personal struggles can have on one's ability to cherish monumental career achievements. Rachel empathizes, wishing she could help him revisit that cherished moment through a metaphorical time machine (32:31).

Conclusion: Embracing the Journey

As the episode wraps up, Rachel commends Orville for his openness and the courage it takes to share his vulnerabilities. She encourages listeners to explore other insightful conversations on Wild Card, such as her episode with Ani DiFranco. Orville expresses his gratitude, and the two share a mutual appreciation for the journey they've navigated (33:08).

Notable Quotes:

• “I was chasing acceptance my whole life, but I have really worked not needing to chase that any longer.” – Orville Peck (00:20)
• “The presence that ties the story together… is this role, this person called the master of ceremonies.” – Orville Peck (14:58)
• “I have pretty successfully killed all my impostor syndrome at this point.” – Orville Peck (17:27)
• “Trust with a partner especially encapsulates so many important things.” – Orville Peck (22:12)

Final Thoughts

This episode of Wild Card with Rachel Martin offers a profound exploration of Orville Peck's life, shedding light on his personal battles and triumphs. Through candid conversations, listeners gain insight into how he overcame impostor syndrome, achieved sobriety, and continues to navigate the complexities of trust and identity. Orville Peck's journey is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the transformative power of self-acceptance.

Transcript

[NPR Sponsor]

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[Rachel Martin]

What do you feel like you're constantly chasing?

[Orville Peck]

I think less and less. I think I was chasing acceptance my whole life, but I have really worked not needing to chase that any longer.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life, questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one question back on me. My guest this week is Orville Peck.

[Orville Peck]

I had to lose my career for a moment while I went and got health and sober. And it was just a very defining moment where I was like, man, like, this is taking everything I love away from my life.

[Rachel Martin]

Orville Peck is full of apparent contradictions. As a kid growing up in South Africa, he went from dancing ballet to playing drums in a punk band. He loves musical theater but made a name for himself as a country singer. A lot of his songs are about vulnerability, but he covers his face with a mask. The contradictions are all part of the Peck mystery. He keeps a lot of his life under wraps, even his real name, which is not Orval Peck. And maybe that's why his voice feels so singular to me. It is so very beautiful and full of longing. And it's all the more powerful because I don't have the full context of the artist himself. But I don't need to know Orvol Peck's real name or what his cheekbones look like, because his entire soul comes through his music. Orville Peck is currently making an exception to the mask, burying his face and his musical soul on Broadway as the master of ceremonies in Cabaret. And it is my sincere pleasure to welcome Orval Peck to Wildcard. Hi.

[Orville Peck]

Thank you so much. Hi.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm so glad to have you here.

[Orville Peck]

I'm very happy to be here.

[Rachel Martin]

We're gonna talk about Cabaret in a few minutes, but quick, congratulations, because it is amazing.

[Orville Peck]

Thank you.

[Rachel Martin]

But with that, are you ready to play our game?

[Orville Peck]

I'm ready. I love games.

[Rachel Martin]

I love a gamer who likes games. All right, let's do it. Memories. First three cards. One, two or three?

[Orville Peck]

Let's go. Number two.

[Rachel Martin]

Number two. Where would you go to feel safe as a kid?

[Orville Peck]

I think as a kid, I had such a rich imagination. I had, like, entire fantasy lands built in My head. I played a lot outside as a kid, but yeah, just into my own world for sure.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you remember any details of any specific fantasy world?

[Orville Peck]

You know, I loved westerns as a kid, obviously, so I think.

[Rachel Martin]

Me too.

[Orville Peck]

Yeah, deeply. There's a. There's a photo of me, actually, when I'm eight years old, and I used it for a cover for a song that I did, but I used it as the single cover. And it's a photo of me as a little kid and I have a cowboy hat on and a handkerchief covering my face. And so I'm still sort of playing the same game, I guess. But, yeah, just like make believe land, for sure is where I'd escape into.

[Rachel Martin]

So the question is about not just escapism, but safety. And it implies that there was something to feel safe from. Did you have that in your life? Did you have a thing that you needed to escape from and so you sought safety in your imagination?

[Orville Peck]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think, you know, I. I've been able to contextualize it a lot better as I've gotten older. But, you know, I was really, I think, a very unique kid from the very beginning. And I think when somebody is unique or, you know, different in that way, I think it's really hard for. It's hard to fit in. And I think when you're a kid, you don't realize, of course, you don't have the context that like, you know, these are things that make you special and are sort of like your strength.

[Rachel Martin]

To be celebrated when you're little.

[Orville Peck]

Yeah, when you're little, you know, it's sort of. It makes you feel ostracized and I think so. I mean, I definitely, like, I really struggled with making friends when I was a kid. I felt very much outside and excluded from, you know, everyone else that I grew up with. So I think. And you know, and then of course, as I got a little older, that led to, you know, I was picked on a lot as a kid. And so I think the escape for me was definitely a lot of that. But, you know, it's funny, like. Like I said, I'm. I'm actually. I'm kind of grateful in a way that that is how I grew up and that, you know, even though it was really tough as a kid, I think for any kid who feels kind of bullied or ostracized, it's incredibly difficult. But I will say it definitely, it built this kind of imagination that I had. You know, I spent a lot of time on my own as a Kid. And I think, luckily, I built this kind of creativity to, I think, kind of deal with that.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Thank you for that.

[Orville Peck]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, next set of 3. 1, 2, or 3?

[Orville Peck]

Let's go with 3.

[Rachel Martin]

3. What's an ordinary place that feels extraordinary because of what happened there.

[Orville Peck]

In South Africa? I grew up going out to the bush a lot. And I have had such a very, very deep connection to nature and animals because of that my whole life. And so when I go back home to South Africa, that's where I spend most of my time is out in the bush. And there's just something about being there that feels so in sync with who I am, and it feels so incredibly familiar. I think having also traveled and moved around so much my whole life, lived so many different places, kind of, you know, I've kind of had a nomadic sort of existence for the majority of my life. It's sort of the only environment in my life that feels like it never changes, and it's familiar. So going back there is, like, the most comforting thing that I can ever do. And so that always feels extraordinary to me.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. What does it look like? What are the sounds?

[Orville Peck]

Definitely the first thing I think of are the doves. There's, like, a very particular few kind of dove calls there. It's really quiet, but you can kind of hear the life in the leaves, rustling in the trees.

[Rachel Martin]

So there are trees? For some reason, I think of it as being desert.

[Orville Peck]

No, it's. So it's not very. It's not like. It's not like, savannah style. There's a lot of, like, acacia thorn trees, and there's a particular kind of smell, like, of the dust and the felt and. Yeah, it's interesting, you know, like, I've. I've taken people home with me that are not from there. I. You know, my partner has been a lot. I know a lot of people that have gone, and, like, there is something sort of inexplicable about being there. It is just Africa in general, but especially I'm biased about South Africa, of course, but, like, it is unlike anywhere else I've ever been in the world. And I. I hear most people saying that as well.

[Rachel Martin]

That is beautiful. It also reminds me of where I grew up. I grew up in Idaho, and there's this real smell of sagebrush that smells like home to me all the time. And you just evoked that for me, thinking about the smells of places that make us feel safe and at home.

[Orville Peck]

Hmm. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, one more in memories. One, two, three.

[Orville Peck]

Let's go.

[Rachel Martin]

Number One, number one, what's a moment with a stranger that made you feel loved?

[Orville Peck]

There's a lovely lady who has been to a few of my shows and, you know, she was diagnosed with stage four cancer, and she came out to one of my meet and greets on tour and she had taken all these beautiful. You know, I have. I'm obsessed with motels and like, motel culture in America. Cause I just think it's, like, really fascinating. And she had gone around and she's a photographer, and she had gone and taken photos of all these different motels and she gifted them to me.

[Rachel Martin]

Wow.

[Orville Peck]

She wrote me a beautiful letter that came with the photos and just, you know, talking about how much my music has meant to her. And like, I mean, you know, it's a lucky thing in my mind that I get to, you know, be some kind of whatever. It might be relief for someone that's going through something.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, that's what happens. Vulnerability feeds on itself, right? So if you make yourself, you share the hard stuff that you've been through in your life, which is a lot, and you put it in your music and other people respond to it, and then it makes them also want to open a door that maybe they haven't opened before to disclose their own stuff. And so it's a beautiful symbiosis, you know?

[Orville Peck]

Yeah, for sure. And, you know, and then of course, like. Like I'm saying now that all these experiences of people telling me their experiences, that also changes me. And so that, in a way, probably dictates what I eventually write about. So they're also like. It is kind of like this symbiosis.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Huh. You're lucky. That's a lovely thing.

[Orville Peck]

I really am. It's amazing.

[Rachel Martin]

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[Rachel Martin]

We'Re going to pull back for a second and talk about Cabaret.

[Orville Peck]

Perfect.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, you're on Broadway right now, right? Like, I think we pulled you away from.

[Orville Peck]

Yeah, I've got a show in a few hours.

[Rachel Martin]

So my first question is, what was your experience with this material before you got this role? Because, I mean, it's been around for a long time. I remember seeing the Liza Minnelli Joel Gray movie like when I was in my twenties. Were you familiar? Had you seen it on. On stage before?

[Orville Peck]

Yeah, so I saw the movie first as well. When I was a kid. I was like probably 12 or 13.

[Rachel Martin]

Which is really scary. By the way though, didn't you think it was scary when you were.

[Orville Peck]

Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's really, it's an intense. I mean, the story is, is, it's a beautiful show, but it is very heavy at times, you know. And when I was a young dancer, I did a production of Cabaret, so I was one of the Kit Kat Boys. I played the gorilla as well.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, you did? For those who don't know, there's a gorilla in Cabaret.

[Orville Peck]

Yeah, just right. That's probably a confusing comment for out of context, but go see it. You'll figure it out. But you know, it's funny, I was just telling someone the other day, I'm like, I feel so lucky because I've, I've actually been able to accomplish a lot of my dreams, which is incredible to say, but this one in particular. And so specifically, like playing the emcee in Cabaret on Broadway, that exact specific scenario has to be a lifelong dream.

[Rachel Martin]

Wow. Okay, so just a little backstory for those who don't know the story. It's about a dancer performer named Sally Bowles who's come from London to Berlin. And this is the buildup to Nazi takeover of Germany. And she meets a guy named Cliff and there's love. And all this is happening in the backdrop of this place called the Kit Kat Club. And the presence that ties the story together as we watch, you know, events unfold is this role, this person called the master of ceremonies, the mc. So that's the backdrop. But can you explain, like, what is this person or is it a person? And what. What do you love about that role? Why was that the dream?

[Orville Peck]

I think I. That is. I think what you asked is exactly what I love about the role is that I kind of see it for myself. I think you can play it a million different ways for me. I think he definitely. There are moments that he exists as a concept. He exists as Germany, he exists as fascism. He exists as a mirror to the audience who are also in this show, part of this show, whether they know it or not, which is also a very fascinating device that it's such a cleverly written show. But, yeah, it's.

[Rachel Martin]

He's also an enigma. I mean, he is the definition of an enigma, which is sort of you, Orville.

[Orville Peck]

I know. It's true. There is definitely.

[Rachel Martin]

There are some parallels.

[Orville Peck]

Well, that's what's funny about me taking off my mask to do this, because I'm putting on sort of a character, but also the character and the show. There's sort of ideas of masks coming on and off. Yeah. The mask of assimilating into fascism. It's. There's a. There's like a whole. You know, we could do a whole deep dive into the parallels, but there definitely are some. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

How was the no mask thing going for you?

[Orville Peck]

I don't even think about it. You know, it's fine. I mean, I was nervous leading up to it, I think. Obviously, it was never a question whether I was going to do it or not. But then a few days before my opening, I was like, oh, my God, I. People are gonna see my face. It kind of dawned on me. But then I haven't. I literally haven't thought about it since. Cause, I mean, just. It sounds like such a pageant answer. But I mean, genuinely, I'm really just focused on trying to deliver a good performance. And it's. It doesn't even cross my mind, honestly.

[Rachel Martin]

But you do put it back on for the curtain call. I noticed.

[Orville Peck]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

You come out for applause. It's like that's supposed to be your real self, but for you. Because the mask makes you feel like your real self. It makes you more comfortable in the type of guy. So you put it back on to get your applause.

[Orville Peck]

Yeah. Because that's like me coming back. Exactly.

[Rachel Martin]

Second round. Insights. Insights. One, Two or three?

[Orville Peck]

Let's do two.

[Rachel Martin]

Two. What do you feel like you're constantly chasing?

[Orville Peck]

I think less and less these days, which is really relieving. I Think for most my life, I was chasing. Validation is the wrong word. I think it's more nuanced than that. I think I was chasing acceptance my whole life, and I think my idea of how to gain acceptance was through my accomplishments. But I have really worked on not needing to chase that any longer, and I think that comes with probably age. You know, I think it comes with the fact that I've pretty successfully killed all my imposter syndrome at this point. Whoa, man. I think Broadway was, like, the last. The last stab. And also, you made it, Orville Page. No, literally. But also, you know, like, I got sober a couple years ago. There's, like, a lot of things in my life that I have worked on over the last two or. Well, probably about two or three years where I'm just really. I'm just really happy with myself these days, you know, which I think for. For pretty much my entire life, I wasn't. You know, and, listen, I have my days, but for the most part, I can really happily say that I really like who I am, and I think I know pretty well who I am, and I think that makes it helpful because I don't feel like I have to chase too much.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Congratulations on your sobriety.

[Orville Peck]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Rachel Martin]

I stopped drinking eight months ago myself. It is a mile. A journey. Yeah. Thank you.

[Orville Peck]

It's a journey, for sure.

[Rachel Martin]

Can you tell me how you came to that realization that you just. It's hard after a lifetime of a habit.

[Orville Peck]

Oh, yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

To say, I'm gonna do something different today.

[Orville Peck]

Yeah. It was a.

[Rachel Martin]

And I think it matters for other people to hear that, too.

[Orville Peck]

No, absolutely. You know, it was just being in the industry I'm in, obviously drinking is. And drugs and things are just. It's very normalized, and it's a part of nightlife. It's a part of, you know, like, I. I don't think I ever played a show in my life without at least a sip of beer or whatever, you know, like. And so it's just part of it. So there was that normalization, and then, you know, the big moments for me sort of were over a few years. I was in a really terrible relationship that was, you know, pretty abusive and very difficult. And that is when I really ramped up my drinking to cope with that pandemic hit. Kind of amplified that situation and amplified my drinking. And then by that point, I was. Yeah. Just very dependent on it. And cut to a couple years go by, and then, you know, I had, like, a pretty definitive moment where I had Sort of lost my relationship, which I have back now. I had to basically lose my career for a moment while I went and got help and sober. And it was just a very defining moment where I was like, man, like, this is taking everything I love away from my life. And so for me, that's, like, always the constant reminder and why I actually very thankfully don't. I never feel tempted to drink or to relapse personally, because for me, I'm so grateful for the things I have in my life, and I know that for me, drinking takes that away from me.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. The cost is way too high.

[Orville Peck]

Exactly. Yeah. So that was sort of my. That's the abridged version. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Thank you for so much.

[Orville Peck]

You're welcome. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. Three more. One, two, or three.

[Orville Peck]

Let's do two.

[Rachel Martin]

What's an expression of love? You're trying to get better at.

[Orville Peck]

Trust. For me, I think trust is an important expression of love, and I think it's something that a lot of people struggle with in relationships, and I think it's something I've struggled with a lot, and I think that's due to someone breaking yours.

[Rachel Martin]

Someone breaks yours, clearly.

[Orville Peck]

Exactly. Previous trauma, like, you know, unrelated things in my life, but a lot of things in my life with trust issues. Yeah. And, you know, I think trust with a partner especially encapsulates so many important things. It. You know, it encapsulates you allowing your partner to be who they are and trusting that that is good and right. And learning to not try to control my partner in fear of getting hurt. That's big.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, it is just a big trust fall when you fall in love. I mean, you just hope that they're there, and then when they are, it's the most beautiful thing. But you have to fall, and that is so scary.

[Orville Peck]

Well, I mean, I think, too, it's like, you know, you can't. I was always in relationships trying to seek assurance and reassurance, which isn't really trusting. Right. And I think the kind of, like, the most beautiful form of. I think partnership is when you don't have to seek that assurance. But I definitely have trust issues, like control issues in a lot of parts of my life. But I think that's something I've always been working on.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. That stems from insecurity, and it sounds like you've been dealing with that, too, for a long time, and now you're in a different place.

[Orville Peck]

100%. Yeah.

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[Rachel Martin]

Okay, last round.

[Orville Peck]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

Orville Peck, this is the beliefs round. Three new cards. One, two or three.

[Orville Peck]

Let's do one.

[Rachel Martin]

How often do you think about death?

[Orville Peck]

A lot less than I used to. I used to think about it a lot. I was very afraid of it as a kid.

[Rachel Martin]

Ah, were you?

[Orville Peck]

I'm very, like, aware of it, I think.

[Rachel Martin]

Did you have people die when you were young that were close to you?

[Orville Peck]

I had an uncle die when I was young in kind of a violent way, which was sort of, you know, I guess looking back would have been traumatic. But at the time I didn't really think of it like that, obviously. But I lost a friend in high school or I was just out of high school. I would have been about, I think I would have been maybe 19. And she was, she was 18. And that was my first, I think, real interaction with like death in that way. But I used to, like, I used to frighten myself when I was young. I remember I used to like, think about death. And I think I've for me personally, I've never really thought about there being sort of an afterlife. And so I think I've sometimes been able to sort of like frighten myself with the thoughts of it, of that it just ends.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Orville Peck]

But you know, honestly, I think I don't think about it that much As I get older and I don't know, I'm so overly concerned and in my head about current. Current status. I think I have. I don't even have time or space in my mind anymore to go there. But yeah, that's a good thing about death that much.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, that's a good thing, I think. I mean, I'm totally preoccupied with it. And there have definitely been chapters of my life where I would practice it. That's not what it sounds like.

[Orville Peck]

No, I know what you mean.

[Rachel Martin]

But mentally, I would just be like, what if I'm just gone right now? Like, what does that feel like? I would, like, try that on for size. I do that less and less. I think having kids focuses my mind on the present, too.

[Orville Peck]

100%.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. It's a thing that can take over your mind.

[Orville Peck]

Well, it's def. I mean, it's an inevitability for all of us.

[Rachel Martin]

Right. It's going to happen. And like any life experience, I'm super interested in living and what it means to be alive. And a byproduct of being alive is being unalive. And that is also very interesting.

[Orville Peck]

Yeah, it'll be. It's a. It's. It's. It's. It is a fascinating part of our experience. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Last question. Last three cards. One, two or three?

[Orville Peck]

Let's do two.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you prefer mystery or certainty?

[Orville Peck]

That's a great question. Because you know what's funny is I. I have two sides to my personality that are forever in conflict in this way. There is. I have a side to me that is extremely pragmatic and loves logic, order. I'm a very neat person. I'm very tidy. I'm very. I have, like. There's a part of me that is so, like, structure scratches a part of my brain that is. Feels so good. Yeah. Structure and, like, logic and all of that stuff. Certainty.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Orville Peck]

And then there is like a 50% competing part of my. Of my brain that loves mystery, uncertainty, chaos, adventure, the unknown. I would never want to ruin a surprise. Or like. Or like, I was never the kid that was, like, trying to peek into the presence, you know, Like, I love to be surprised. I think mystery is a great thing. I don't want to know everything about someone. I like to make my own mind up about stuff. Yeah, that is.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, you wear a mask.

[Orville Peck]

Exactly. Not say it out loud, but I am. There is also a part of me, I promise you, that is very much, like, about order, but I also have a very chaotic nature as well.

[Rachel Martin]

We end the show the same way every time. And this is how we do it. We take a trip in our memory time machine. Okay, so in this memory time machine, you revisit one moment from your past. It is not a moment you want to change in any way. It's just a moment you'd like to linger in a little longer. What moment do you choose?

[Orville Peck]

I did a song with Shania Twain when quite early in my career. It was my first time doing any kind of duet, any kind of collaboration. And the whole thing was kind of amazing, of course, Honestly, like, insane for me. And I remember we shot. We shot a music video for it. The song is called Legends Never Die. And at the time, I was in this really awful situation in my personal life and took so that situation had so much, had taken over so much mental space for myself that I. I don't even remember doing the music video because I was so, so unpresent, and I had so much fear and worry and stress that I don't even remember making a music video with Shania Twain. And it's such a bummer for me because that was such a moment to be celebrated and such an insane moment. My first big kind of moment like that in my career. And I often think, like, I wish I could kind of go back, be present for it, because I don't. I literally have no memory of it, which is crazy.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, my God. I wish we actually had a time machine where we could put you back there. But hopefully you can imagine what that would be like for a moment.

[Orville Peck]

Yeah, exactly. I, I sometimes I watch the video and it is surreal because I'm like, man, I don't even remember this. It's just blacked out. I like, blacked out.

[Rachel Martin]

There's video evidence. So it definitely happened.

[Orville Peck]

Yeah, exactly.

[Rachel Martin]

Orville Peck, you can see him right now on Broadway in the fantastic musical Cabaret. He plays the mc Orville, it has been such a pleasure to get to talk with you and do this.

[Orville Peck]

Yes, you too. Thank you so much.

[Rachel Martin]

If you like this conversation, you should go back and check out my episode with Ani DiFranco. I talked with her when she was also living her Broadway dream in the cast of Hadestown. And like Orville, she took an unusual path to get there. Today's episode was produced by Lee Hale and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Patrick Murray. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni. Our theme music is by Ramtin arablouei. You can reach out to us at wildcardprg. And you know what? We're going to do. We're going to shuffle the deck and we'll be back with more next week. Talk to you then.

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