Ramy Youssef wants to make it weird

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin: Episode Summary - "Ramy Youssef Wants to Make It Weird"

Released: May 29, 2025 | Host: Rachel Martin | Guest: Ramy Youssef

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of Wild Card with Rachel Martin, Ramy Youssef, the multifaceted actor, writer, comedian, producer, and director, joins Rachel to delve deep into personal and philosophical discussions. Recognized as a Top 10 Podcast of 2024 by The New York Times, Wild Card distinguishes itself by moving beyond conventional interview formats, utilizing a unique deck of conversational cards that challenge guests with thought-provoking questions about life's biggest issues.

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Sleep and Health

Ramy opens up about his evolving relationship with sleep, especially after marrying. He reflects on how adulthood responsibilities made him more conscious of mortality and the importance of health.

• Ramy Youssef ([00:20]): "More than ever. After I got married, I started thinking about death a lot because I was like, I just did this really adult thing."

The conversation humorously explores unconventional sleep remedies, highlighting Ramy's dedication to improving his sleep quality.

• Ramy Youssef ([02:50]): "Mainline it into the bottom of the foot. So now I am. That's how seriously I'm taking this."

Friendship and Relationships

Ramy shares heartfelt anecdotes about his longtime friend Steve Way, who has muscular dystrophy. Their unique bond is portrayed authentically in his show Ramy.

• Ramy Youssef ([05:10]): "He literally would say, tell them we gotta do disabled stuff. And then I'd just be like, hey, we gotta do disabled stuff."

He emphasizes the depth and realness of their friendship, showcasing how personal relationships influence his creative work.

Creative Projects

Ramy discusses his diverse portfolio, including his acclaimed show Ramy, the Oscar-winning film Poor Things (2023), his latest comedy special, and the new TV creation Number One Happy Family USA. He also anticipates his upcoming role alongside Steve Carell in the movie Mountainhead.

• Rachel Martin ([01:09]): "He also co-starred in the Oscar winning film Poor Things in 2023... and soon he will share the screen with Steve Carell in the new movie Mountainhead."

In Mountainhead, Ramy portrays Jeff, a tech billionaire navigating moral and existential dilemmas, reflecting his concerns about technology's trajectory.

• Ramy Youssef ([12:15]): "I was just really excited to talk about something that personally haunts me... what is that gonna do?"

Grief and Mortality

A profound segment delves into Ramy's experiences with grief following his grandfather's passing. This loss reshaped his perception of his parents, fostering deeper empathy and understanding.

• Ramy Youssef ([07:22]): "I started to see everything that they were dealing with, with us, with a whole different kind of compassion."

He also shares a poignant memory about how the family dog reacted on the night of his grandfather’s death, symbolizing the interconnectedness of life and loss.

• Ramy Youssef ([09:08]): "My dad fell in love with that dog afterwards because he was like, the dog picked up on what happened."

Representation and Cultural Identity

Ramy emphasizes the significance of his work in portraying Arab American and Muslim American stories, striving for authentic and multifaceted representations.

• Rachel Martin ([15:30]): "What does animation let you do with that story that you couldn't do in a live action situation?"

He explains the creative decision to use animation in his show to illustrate the concept of "code-switching" and the dual lives many Muslim Americans lead.

• Ramy Youssef ([15:56]): "I got very fascinated by this code switch... everyone does that."

Philosophical Views

The conversation transitions into Ramy's contemplations on consciousness and the afterlife. He expresses a belief in the continuity of consciousness beyond physical existence, intertwining his spiritual beliefs with personal experiences.

• Ramy Youssef ([32:09]): "Right now is just the beginning. I think a lot happens."

He critiques modern metaphysical frameworks, advocating for a more profound connection to unseen realities.

• Ramy Youssef ([35:13]): "I just realize that there is something going on that you will not grasp in its entirety."

Personal Insights and Self-Reflection

Through the Wild Card game, Ramy reflects on his personal growth, ambition, and the balancing act between professional commitments and personal life. He acknowledges the challenges of stepping into his responsibilities while maintaining authentic relationships.

• Ramy Youssef ([20:56]): "I definitely step in... This is something I'm learning in my marriage."

He candidly discusses the pitfalls of ambition, such as neglecting personal health and relationships in pursuit of creative endeavors.

• Ramy Youssef ([23:35]): "It's like, I'm sensing this stuff, so... Who'S got a problem?"

Conclusion: The Power of Love

Wrapping up the episode, Ramy underscores love as the fundamental truth guiding his life. He believes that love is the cornerstone of human experience, capable of healing and connecting people amidst life's chaos.

• Ramy Youssef ([37:35]): "Love is at the core of everything. It's the most important thing."

He shares a nostalgic memory, highlighting the importance of familial bonds and cherished moments.

• Ramy Youssef ([39:22]): "It's a photo of me and my sister... It would be cool to just do that day as a kid consciously and just sit in all of that wisdom with all those people."

Final Thoughts

Ramy Youssef's appearance on Wild Card offers a rich tapestry of personal anecdotes, philosophical musings, and insightful discussions about creativity, identity, and the human condition. His ability to intertwine humor with profound reflections makes for an engaging and thought-provoking listen.

For those who found this conversation inspiring, consider tuning into Rachel Martin's episode with Sterlin Harjo, creator of Reservation Dogs, who similarly navigates the pressures of representation with a unique and authentic voice.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Ramy Youssef ([00:20]): "More than ever. After I got married, I started thinking about death a lot because I was like, I just did this really adult thing."
• Ramy Youssef ([05:10]): "He literally would say, tell them we gotta do disabled stuff."
• Ramy Youssef ([07:22]): "I started to see everything that they were dealing with, with us, with a whole different kind of compassion."
• Ramy Youssef ([15:56]): "I got very fascinated by this code switch... everyone does that."
• Ramy Youssef ([32:09]): "Right now is just the beginning. I think a lot happens."
• Ramy Youssef ([37:35]): "Love is at the core of everything. It's the most important thing."

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Production Credits:

• Produced by: Summer Thomas
• Edited by: Dave Blanchard
• Mastered by: Gilly Moon
• Executive Producer: Yolanda Sangweni
• Theme Music by: Ramtin Arablouei

For more episodes and updates, visit wildcardpr.org.

Transcript

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[Rachel Martin]

You made peace with mortality?

[Rami Youssef]

More than ever. After I got married, I started thinking about death a lot because I was like, I just did this really adult thing. Yeah, I'm a married man or marri.

[Rachel Martin]

They have kids, eventually they die.

[Rami Youssef]

They have jobs and they die.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week my guest answers questions about their life, questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one question back on me. My guest this week is Rami Youssef.

[Rami Youssef]

I always view what we do as there's this conversation that needs to happen. Maybe the door is jammed and people don't know how to get to the conversation. And maybe part of what I do is go, oh, I'll hold that door.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm not really sure if Ramy Youssef sleeps because this actor, writer, comedian, producer, director is doing all the things at once right now. He of course, created the show Rami about a spiritually anxious Egyptian American kid and his Muslim family, which earned him several Emmy nominations. He also co starred in the Oscar winning film Poor Things in 2023. His latest comedy special dropped last fall. His new TV creation, Number One Happy Family USA came out in April. And soon he will share the screen with Steve Carell in the new movie Mountainhead. That is so many things. And Rami's audience keeps growing because his comedy and point of view are highly specific and personal while his observations about human nature reflect all of us. I am so happy to welcome Rami Youssef to Wildcard. Hi.

[Rami Youssef]

Hey. Thank you for having me.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, I'm so glad to talk to you. You're going to tell me that you sleep like 10 to 12 hours a night now, right? Like you're actually really good at sleeping.

[Rami Youssef]

You actually really pointed out this flaw issue with sleep.

[Rachel Martin]

I know it.

[Rami Youssef]

On the way over here, I was talking to a friend, I said, dude, our immune systems are compromised. We have to somehow try to hit seven hours. How much do you sleep?

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, dude, we can talk for so long about this. I had a where I was in perpetual sleep deprivation for six years and it is the worst. It is the worst. I'm still recovering, to be honest.

[Rami Youssef]

Yeah, I wanna sleep and I look up all this stuff online and there Was a video of this woman saying, you need to rub magnesium on your feet before you go to bed.

[Rachel Martin]

Mainline it into the feet.

[Rami Youssef]

Mainline it into the bottom of the foot. So now I am. That's how seriously I'm taking this.

[Rachel Martin]

I've tried everything except that. So now I'm gonna go home.

[Rami Youssef]

Can I tell you? I'm a couple weeks in, try it out.

[Rachel Martin]

Is it making a difference?

[Rami Youssef]

Yeah, your socks get a little slippery the next day because there's just a little bit of magnesium residue. So there's a sock factor.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Okay. I'll take that into account.

[Rami Youssef]

And this. I need to have my own magnesium to sell after I make a comment like that.

[Rachel Martin]

That's right. You need to be prepared. You gotta back it up.

[Rami Youssef]

Like ancient Egyptian magnesium or something. You know, put a little branding on it. Like, I start going to camera, and it's like, you know, I looked into my ancestors, and they were using magnesium. That's why this jar should be $60.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, ready?

[Rami Youssef]

I'm ready.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, first three cards, Rami. One, two or three?

[Rami Youssef]

One, one.

[Rachel Martin]

What was your form of rebelling as a teenager?

[Rami Youssef]

I think so. I was a very. I was a very bad student. You know, Like, I really. I couldn't. I couldn't focus, so. And I couldn't stay in class. But I also didn't want to hurt my parents and upset them, because education did mean a lot to them, to my family. So I'll try to figure out a way where I, like, wouldn't have to do what I was supposed to be doing. So it was kind of a creative rebellion. So I actually. So there's a TV program in my high school, and I would get out of other classes saying, oh, guys, I have to do this thing for tv. Because they kind of let us do citizen, like, student journalism.

[Rachel Martin]

Got it, Got it.

[Rami Youssef]

So I'd go, oh, I gotta go cover this thing for tv. And I would. But I'd create all these things that had to get covered. And then I'd end up missing pretty key classes a lot. And then me and my buddy Steve Way, who I work with a lot, and we've known each other since we were like, yeah, he has muscular dystrophy. He's in a wheelchair. So I would also. He would be doing the TV stuff with me. Half the time we'd be like, we're doing the TV stuff. The other half we'd be like, oh, I gotta help Steve with something. Cause he would just be like, just tell them we have to do stuff.

[Rachel Martin]

Steve needs me.

[Rami Youssef]

He literally would say, tell them we gotta do disabled stuff. And then I would just be like, hey, we gotta do disabled stuff. And then they'd go, oh, my God, of course you're with Steve. And then we'd just, like, go get pizza, you know, I mean, we're not. Which is disabled stuff. Cause he can't eat the pizza on his own, and he wanted pizza. So we were basically always inventing ways to never have to be where we had to be. And then I think we thought one day we would just grow up and we wouldn't be able to, like, you know, rebel like that. And then. And it's just kinda still what we're doing.

[Rachel Martin]

Steve is awesome. Your friendship is portrayed in Rami, and I love that. It's like a real thing. It's like just your life.

[Rami Youssef]

Just when you've seen rebellion. I was like, I didn't like, you know, I didn't party or do. Like, that wasn't what I did. It was just. We would just. It was that, I guess. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, three more cards.

[Rami Youssef]

One, two, three. Okay, three.

[Rachel Martin]

Was there a moment when you started seeing your parents as people?

[Rami Youssef]

Wow. Yeah. What was the moment? I think it started probably when I was. I think when I saw my grandfather, my father's father, pass. My dad shifted into a whole different role after his father passed. Because, you know, I think it's that thing of, well, yeah, now that in my life, I am the elder, you know, But I saw my dad go through that, and I remember thinking, oh, whoa. You know, he's a son like I am, and he was a kid. And I think I knew these things. But there was something about that moment where I really felt it. And then I started to see everything that they were dealing with, with us, with a whole different kind of compassion. Even. Even if I felt, you know, like all kids do that. You know, why do I have any guardrails? Or why are you, you know, telling me, you know, you could have all those frustrations? But I kind of. I really did understand it, you know, through a different lens.

[Rachel Martin]

When that happens, you lose some of. If. If. If you have a relationship where you put your parents on a pedestal. I did to some degree. And then you see them emote like a human. And. And in that, as a vulnerability, does that. I don't know. Was there a grief associated for yourself of seeing your dad not lose stature, but just become vulnerable that way to you?

[Rami Youssef]

It was just. It was. Vulnerable is the perfect word, because there was no stature loss. If anything, I almost feel like I loved him and my mother even more, you know, because it was just. It was. It was. You know, when you're a kid, you kind of. If you're lucky. If you're lucky, you know, death as a concept. But you don't have to know it too intimately. And then when you start to know it, you start to feel, oh, wow, well, I really want to love as much as I can while I can.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Rami Youssef]

You know, because, you know, you. You don't want to have the thought, but algebraically, you go, okay, then, you know, I'll lose him at some point. But, yeah, so that. That was really. Oh, yeah. These are people, you know.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. I hadn't thought about this in a long time, but it was the same. I was in my mom's closet. It was after her dad died, her last parent, and. Yeah, same. It's just her overwhelming grief. I was like. I was almost caught off by it. I was like, whoa, this is a lot. Yeah, it was the same for me. Like, seeing my mom be vulnerable in that way was totally connected to losing her dad. Okay. We got into grief already, so it's going great.

[Rami Youssef]

I'll tell you something, though. Like, a really interesting memory, too, with that, because we had really petitioned my parents so that we could get a dog. It was this really, like, big thing. And my mom was afraid of dogs, even, and my dad was like, no. You know, but then we really. We got them to get us one. And there was something interesting because my grandfather who passed was in Egypt. And the night before we found out that he had passed, the dog was howling and crying all night. Right. So it was really interesting. Cause it was like. All I know is my dad fell in love with that dog afterwards because he was like, the dog picked up on what happened. Whether he picked up on it through me or knew something was going on, and it became this whole thing, and then now. My parents are huge dog people.

[Rachel Martin]

Animals are truth tellers.

[Rami Youssef]

Yeah. For real.

[Rachel Martin]

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[Rachel Martin]

Okay, so before we start round two, I'm going to pull back a little bit from the game and talk about first your new movie, Mountainhead. This is created by Jesse Armstrong who also made Succession. It's about these, you know, titans of tech in Silicon Valley. They're squirreled away in this mountain resort in Utah just having like a bro weekend and then chaos ensues around the world.

[Rami Youssef]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

You play a guy named Jeff who is a super successful tech billionaire. You read this thing and what was your reaction?

[Rami Youssef]

I was just really excited to talk about something that personally haunts me. You know, just this idea of where is this tech going? You know, this is what it looks like when for a long time we've had this dynamic of power versus people. And then now entering the conversation is the tech. And in a way what we start to understand in this story is just. Yeah. That has a mind of its own.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Rami Youssef]

And what is that gonna do?

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, the scenes where Steve Carell is yelling at you, it made me so sad on your behalf to be yelled at by Steve Carell. Were you sad? I feel like you weren't acting. I feel like your face was just like, oh my God, Steve Carell is yelling at me. He's ripping me a new one. And I am so sad.

[Rami Youssef]

You know, nice testament then to my acting because I mean, I was not sad, but Jeff was. So shout out me because, God, Steve Carell is the coolest dude. He's just so, it's hard to, you know, he, he shows up to this job and he's just as excited as all of us. He's just as curious as all of us. We're all pouring through the script going, ooh, ah. What about this? What about that? And I'm looking at this guy and I'm like, how does it feel? Like this is like his first job, you know, in the best ways, right?

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rami Youssef]

He obviously Knows what he's doing. Animated and Curious has that thing. And so I learned so much, you know, I just learned so much about how to be being around him anytime you could, like, learn how to be as a person from someone in the creative process. Because the creative process isn't always known for, you know, shining personalities. It's never quite a roadmap on how to actually act, not be a narcissist.

[Rachel Martin]

It's about how to act.

[Rami Youssef]

It's about to act, act. Not how to actually act, just how to, like, do the, you know, the acting that happens on screen. But no, him. You go, oh, wow, I want to act like him in real life.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. So you are. You're an actor, but you create a lot of stuff. Like you're mainly like the creator guy, the writer, the producer, the director of things. What's it like to just drop into someone else's project where you don't. Where you're not responsible for the whole kit and caboodle and you just come in and you've got like your role and you just do that and walk out.

[Rami Youssef]

You know what it was? I slept more.

[Rachel Martin]

Good.

[Rami Youssef]

I was hitting my seven.

[Rachel Martin]

You should do that then.

[Rami Youssef]

I was hitting my seven. So I loved it. I was. I was going to bed. I tuck in. I don't have to think about lighting. I don't gotta look at a costume. I got my one little jacket that I put on. I show up, I got my coffee. These guys have been there for two hours. I know about that life. And I'm like, hope you guys are doing okay. I'm doing great. This is one of the best experiences of my life. I'm just focusing on this guy Jeff, and that's all it is. You're just chilling.

[Rachel Martin]

So I wanted to say congrats on number one, Happy Family usa.

[Rami Youssef]

Thank you.

[Rachel Martin]

Which is so funny.

[Rami Youssef]

Thank you.

[Rachel Martin]

And a lot of it parallels Rami about just your own life experience, living life as part of a Muslim American family. And this show in particular, it's about right after 9, 11. So it's got a particular point of view. What does animation let you do with that story that you couldn't do in a live action situation?

[Rami Youssef]

I mean, I think, you know, I mean, we have this. The central idea that made me want to do an animated show was thinking about how this family, in this time with really heightened bigotry and Islamophobia, somewhat like now's time, but they kind of make this calculation that they need to really display their patriotism to the neighborhood and to the world in a way that they haven't before. And they want to kind of strip themselves of everything that they are and how they look. And so they literally look different when they're in the house and when they're outside the house. So I got very fascinated by this code switch where I said, okay, this is an animated idea. You watch the father's beard disappear as he walks through the doorway. You know, you watch them do whatever they can in order to conform. And. And I think that became this entry point I was fascinated about, because I think everybody does that. Everybody goes, there's something about who I am when I'm home that is not good enough or that is not right or that needs to be hidden when I'm with other people. So I started to feel, okay, now this show could be for everybody. But now we're gonna do it in this way that covers this era that has never really had a varied artistic point of view. And we have an opportunity to do that.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. So, last question. I have a Palestinian American friend, a dear friend of mine, who happens to work in conflict resolution in the Middle East. Sort of busy.

[Rami Youssef]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

And he's a big fan. And I told him I was talking to you, and I said, if you could ask him anything, what would you ask him? And so this is Nassim's question.

[Rami Youssef]

He.

[Rachel Martin]

And there's a preface here. He thinks that the work that you're doing in centering Arab American and Muslim American stories really is the most important work. What you're doing has such a huge impact on how Americans in particular view Muslim Americans just like, as people, their 360 degree selves. And so the question is, do you get that? And does that ever feel like a burden to you?

[Rami Youssef]

I. Well, first off, I think I always struggle with. I always struggle with whether that's true or not, you know, And I don't really. You know, I. The only way I can make what I make is I don't assign that to it.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Rami Youssef]

I always view what we do as. There's this conversation that needs to happen. Maybe the door is jammed and people don't know how to get to the conversation. And maybe part of what I do is go, oh, I'll hold that door, you know, but to me, it's like, I feel like I'm just holding the door for Naseem and the work that he's doing, you know, and so that can be helpful. But I don't know if what I do is actually the work, because at the end of the day, it's fart jokes and sex jokes and food jokes. It's part of being people.

[Rachel Martin]

Right, of course.

[Rami Youssef]

No, no, I know. And that's. And we are so in the gutter that we have to. Not us as a people. The conversation is so in the gutter that, you know. Oh, man. Yeah. I have to. I guess. I guess this. We've been so, you know, dehumanized that I gotta tell you. We fart and we have sex. That sucks. I grew up in that. That's part of what this show is. I grew up in a situation that is so messed up. I have to tell you, we fart and we like the same food as you.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Rami Youssef]

It's kind of a dumb position to have to even take on a level. And that's why I kind of go out of my way to say, well, you know what? I'm gonna make this as weird as possible because I want it to be exciting for me. And so what I'll sometimes get is people being like, dude, did it have to be that weird, man? We're trying to show people who we are. And I'm like, no, no. I'm not trying to show anyone anything. I'm trying to. I am trying to do the thing that entertains me. I don't view it with the density of. It'll be a solution or it'll do anything like that, because that would make it impossible to create. And I also. Whatever Naseem thinks about me, I think about him more. I think that's the work. I think that's the work.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Thank you. You feel like getting back into the game?

[Rami Youssef]

Yeah, I can't wait. I still. Yeah. Are you kidding? I think we have two more rounds.

[Rachel Martin]

That's right. That's right, Rami.

[Rami Youssef]

We do.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, so this round is about insights that you might have about yourself.

[Rami Youssef]

Oh, wow.

[Rachel Martin]

One, two or three?

[Rami Youssef]

Three.

[Rachel Martin]

Three. Oh. In moments of conflict, do you step in or step back?

[Rami Youssef]

I definitely step in, and I think I step in a variety of ways. I either can step in, wanting to provide solutions and kind of say, okay, which. To a fault. Right. I mean, like, you know, almost sidestepping why the conflict happened in order to look at the solution and skipping the part where the feeling acknowledgement happens. This is something I'm learning in my marriage.

[Rachel Martin]

That's right. Sometimes you just need to listen and there is no. Yeah, I know.

[Rami Youssef]

I should step back more. I jump right in.

[Rachel Martin]

You jump right in.

[Rami Youssef]

I jump right in. Oh, I jump right in.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you think you could give me an example of when you stepped in.

[Rami Youssef]

I showrun shows. So I think there. It's really. It's really quite simply, like, you have all sorts of different departments, and you have all sorts of different things going on. You have. So you just. You have to make really direct phone calls. You have to get people in the room. You have to kind of get to the core of what's going on, and you have to do it really fast because you're shooting in four hours or you're on set or whatever it might be. So, I mean, I think on that, you know, on that level, it's just always happening. It's such a conflict for you to.

[Rachel Martin]

Forge positively for this, though, too, because you're good at it. You have to be. So then I imagine you can apply it. You're like, well, no, yeah, I'm good.

[Rami Youssef]

It's like, I'm sensing this stuff, so.

[Rachel Martin]

Who'S got a problem?

[Rami Youssef]

Yeah, and then you kind of deal and then you try to do the same thing with, like, your parents or with your, you know, like. And it's just like, no one wants to hear it. You know what I mean? Everyone's like, shut up, dude. Like, you know what I mean? I'm not trying to deal with it. You know what I mean? Like, my mom was like, oh, yeah, I should exercise more or whatever. And I call her and I'm like, I bought you a yoga monthly membership. And she's like, I don't want that. And I'm like, but I already paid for the month. And she goes, sucks for you. And now I'm just on the hook for this yoga thing, at least for a month. And then, of course, I forget to cancel it. And so now I pay for the yoga for, like, six months, you know? And then it's just like, what the hell is going on? You know, I tried to solve this thing, and now I'm making this yoga studio rich. Yeah, I mean, shouldn't the studio call and be like, hey, your mom's not showing up.

[Rachel Martin]

You shouldn't.

[Rami Youssef]

Like, especially yoga. It's like this integrity practice. They, like, breathe and supposedly care about people. Are you guys not gonna call me and just say you're passively billing me? You don't have a chakra that tells you that she's not showing up.

[Rachel Martin]

It's a madness.

[Rami Youssef]

I'll pick number one.

[Rachel Martin]

You'll pick number one. Of the three new cards presented to you, Rami has chosen number one. Here we go. Has ambition ever led you astray?

[Rami Youssef]

Yeah, of course. I mean, it becomes about, like, the Physical stuff. It's like you. You know, there's just. I'll get so into a creative idea and whatever it takes to make it happen that I genuinely forget my body. Whether it's. And I've had both. I've had forgetting to eat or I've had overeating. Like, it'll take over. Like, then you're just so tired and you're so exhausted, and it's the thing we were.

[Rachel Martin]

Sleep.

[Rami Youssef]

Sleep is the thing we're talking about. And I think it almost. Yeah, it's like the physical stuff and that where you just did get married.

[Rachel Martin]

Not that long ago, right?

[Rami Youssef]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then. Yeah, then you start to think, like, oh, wow, you know, you want to spend more time with people who you love. And then you start to kind of say, okay, now I gotta like, whatever I was, you know, when I was a kid. I guess I can say this now, you know, being 21, 22, and you're doing standup, you run around, you get up anywhere, anywhere that they'll give you a microphone. You go to, you know, we do it anywhere, you know, at a restaurant. I used to live around the corner from a vintage shop, and I walked into the vintage shop and I go, you can do standup here. And then before you know it, we're doing a weekly show in the middle of the clothing racks, you know, anywhere. You do four spots a night. You just run around in your car, you time out the night, and that's all you're doing. And then now at this age and, yeah, married, and I want to spend more time with my wife, with my parents, with, you know, then you start to go, yeah, that's not. I just. I'd love to get up and do stand up. It's so amazing to be in front of a crowd and have hundreds of people just laugh at you immediately. But you go, nah, I'm not gonna do that. You know, I can't.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Foreign.

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[Rachel Martin]

Okay, last round. Beliefs 1, 2 or 3?

[Rami Youssef]

1.

[Rachel Martin]

Have you ever tried to force a belief?

[Rami Youssef]

Yeah, I mean I have. I've tried to force, I think I've tried to like force like that, like a regular schedule will work for me. You know, like I've read all those things about routine and habit and for many years I've really tried to force this idea that I got to do the same thing every day, even though there's nothing about how my life is designed that would actually allow that. You ever read those self help, like the morning makes you a man or whatever. Like any of these books that, I.

[Rachel Martin]

Mean not the man version, but yes, you need to sleep four hours and then sleep another three or, and then.

[Rami Youssef]

Do this thing and then like, you know, so I was going through this whole like you try something and you're on it for like two weeks and then it just kind of combusts and then, you know, you're just eating Wendy's at 10pm and you're like, that was not in the book. You know, And I've only recently started to kind of say, you know what, man? I don't know. I know the things I gotta do and they might happen at the same time, they might not. I just always felt like it's like there's like a structure that's evading me or something. And now I'm saying, no, what if it's just this is. Let me just be with however it is and try to be okay with that. That's right.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Rami Youssef]

And be okay with that, you know. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Three more cards. One. Two. Three.

[Rami Youssef]

Three.

[Rachel Martin]

Have you made peace with Mort.

[Rami Youssef]

More than ever. But, you know, I don't know. There's just really. You know, one of my favorite Sufi concepts is to die before you die, you know, which is to be at peace with the fact that you will. Which is to actually have that inner feeling of you've tamed your ego to the point that you've actually. This is an incredibly hard thing to do, but you actually kill your ego while you're still alive. That's very aspirational in a way that I'm super attracted to. Actually, just a couple weeks ago, we buried my grandfather, and that was. And he was the last grandparent that we had. And so it's just that inevitable thing where you just feel that thing. It's like, not only is he gone, but everyone just kind of moves up a slot. You know what I mean? In, like, what you think is going in, like, you know, because these things are unpredictable. I mean, it's like, you know, no one has an actual clock on when it'll happen. But looking at patterns, everyone kind of moves up a slot. Then you go, oh, wow, you know, okay. And then you start to think about death. Like, I did have this weird thing, like, after I got married, I started thinking about death a lot because I went. And I know it sounds funny, or it sounds like I'm in. Like, it's like a bad thing. But it was more just a really logical thing because I was like, I just did this really adult thing.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Rami Youssef]

I cannot tell myself that I'm just this, like, kid on the come up anymore. I'm a married man. What do married men do? They have kids.

[Rachel Martin]

Eventually they die.

[Rami Youssef]

They have jobs and they die. Whoa. I'm thinking about death a lot, you know, but it was really beautiful because there's nothing more real. And so I love it. You know, I have an uncle who, you know, he's very involved in the Muslim community. And if anybody dies, it's not even anyone that he knows, he goes and he's like, hey, you guys need help? Can I come? Just do the prayer for the cause. He's like, he likes that reality check, and he likes to be in a room with people who are in a very real state of mind.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, yeah.

[Rami Youssef]

Because when you talk to people at a funeral, it's like, that's a good convo. Cause everyone's, you know, I mean, it could be a very sad one, but if you can have, like, a good conversation, you're spiritually heightened. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you're getting right there at the Core of everything. And I think that's really interesting.

[Rachel Martin]

What do you think happens after you die.

[Rami Youssef]

A lot? Do you? I think, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I think I've been on a string.

[Rachel Martin]

Of conversations with people who are just like, nothing. Nothing happens. It's the end.

[Rami Youssef]

This is just the beginning.

[Rachel Martin]

Ooh.

[Rami Youssef]

Right now is just the beginning. I think a lot happens. I think if this is the end, then I actually don't know how anyone can live with how much suffering and how much inequality that there is. And I think it's. To me, the more I live, it feels like the only thing that makes sense.

[Rachel Martin]

Can I push you gently on that? Do you actually think.

[Rami Youssef]

Push me even more.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you actually think consciousness will exist beyond your physical form? Like, when you say it's the beginning, you do.

[Rami Youssef]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure, for sure.

[Rachel Martin]

Like, not. Not as, like, the tech bro, freezing your consciousness and tapping it into, like, some matrix you believe.

[Rami Youssef]

I mean, I think. I think that's the similarity, too, of, like, the longevity movement. And it's kind of because it's. It's. It's. We're in such a. We're. We're so trapped by only believing in, like, what we can see. But I think that the basis of any spiritual tradition that lives on Earth, however you want to call it, the inner eye God, you know, however people. You know, I obviously connect to it as a Muslim, but that consciousness is always about what you can't see. And that is only going to continue beyond this, you know, and so. And you feel, you know, I feel it. I feel it with, you know, family who's passed, and I feel it, you know, all the time. These relationships continue and actually feel them.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, I do. I definitely have had that experience. But, like, of course, I can hear people listening to this being like, but what. But what is he talking about?

[Rami Youssef]

Like, where is this the thing we were talking about earlier where it's like, you know, like, why was our dog crying? You know, why do you know things right before you know them? You know, and then everyone's like, oh, this is a little coincidence. And that's fine if that's the level you want to tap into it. You know what I mean? So some people will hear a good song and they'll go, that's a good song. I like it. Some people will go, why do I like that song? And they'll really get into it. They'll go, well, it's because of the bass line. This guy studied piano over here. They're using these acoustics it's the same thing. So you have all these frequencies of things that are happening. Most people like to go, huh, a little coincidence. And then they just go to the deli and get a sandwich. But if you really kind of look into it, you go, no, no, no. There's an unseen. There's a science to it. There's all these things that are there. And there are so many people on Earth who are really tapped into these things. And what's awesome about that whole conversation is they still don't know, but they know a lot, but no one here really knows. And I think that, to me, is almost the most unifying thing that we have as humans, is that there's this whole other thing that we actually don't. So we're all in this, like, unknowing together. And then I think that should create a lot of mercy, actually.

[Rachel Martin]

Mm. That was interesting. Do you think that there's a divinity, some divine power involved in all this?

[Rami Youssef]

Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Why of course?

[Rami Youssef]

It's like, come on. Yeah, yeah, of course. I don't. You know, I mean, I think, like, man in the sky or whatever is not the framework, right? You know what it is? I have this thing that's so. I have this, like, gripe with Santa Claus because, you know, growing up in America, because, you know what it is? It's like, kids grow up believing in Santa Claus like, that this guy could come down the chimney. And it's. So Santa Claus is actually presented to a child. Is this, like, metaphysical proposition that, hey, there is something out there that can break the rules of metaphysics and give you this gift of exactly what you want, and it's really hyped up. And then one day, hey, just so you know, none of that's true. So. So. So the idea of a metaphysical framework is shattered, right, for an entire generation, because Santa Claus ruined this kind of transcendence. Cause everyone's just like, nah, that stuff's not real. Like, I remember. I remember the Santa Claus lie. You know what I mean? So it's like. But let's just say put that aside, and you actually just realize that there is something going on that you will not grasp in its entirety. But if you get quiet, you're gonna pick up on way more than if you're kind of in this, like, fractured, you know, distracted place.

[Rachel Martin]

Dude, that Santa Claus thing hit me deep. Well, I'm a parent, and I'm also a parent who thinks a lot about my children's spiritual education. But now I'm like, thinking about Santa Claus, and we did Santa Claus, and now I'm like, I just kill. My children's sense of mystery in the universe and their ability to think outside of time and place and connect to a higher being.

[Rami Youssef]

He holds too much power, and he has nothing to do with Christianity even.

[Rachel Martin]

There's so much pressure.

[Rami Youssef]

It's an industry.

[Rachel Martin]

I. The Christian ladies say to the Muslim community, hey, listen.

[Rami Youssef]

And this is the thing.

[Rachel Martin]

Pressure for Santa.

[Rami Youssef]

But I think I. By the way, I'll take Muslim pressure over Santa pressure.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Rami Youssef]

Well, some pressure. We're just, you know, that's Sansom. That's just some real grit.

[Rachel Martin]

Last question. One, two, or three.

[Rami Youssef]

I'll do one.

[Rachel Martin]

What truth guides your life more than any other?

[Rami Youssef]

Love like that, actually. Love is at the core of everything. Yeah, that's. It is the most important. It's the most important thing. Everything leads back to it, you know, every good thing leads to it, and every. Every bad thing is a lack of it. And. And I think that that's. It always help. That one word always helps me reconnect. We talked so much about exhaustion. This conversation. Anytime I'm trying to get out of that. If I can actually focus on that word, I can repair at least a bit. It's not like, oh, love, hey, you know, like suddenly. But I'm always thinking, like, about small bits of repair of whatever it is. And that is always the thing that helps me do that. And it is the most important thing. And it is the. You know. Yeah. I mean, it's the top feeling.

[Rachel Martin]

We end the show the same way every time with a trip in our memory time machine. So in the memory time machine, you revisit one moment from your past. It is not a moment you would change anything about. It's just a moment you would like to linger in a little longer. Which moment do you choose?

[Rami Youssef]

We. This is such a great question. I've never thought about this. There's this photograph that I have. It's an old family photograph when my sister and I were younger. And so my grandfather grew up in this village, you know, outside of Cairo. And it's really what you think of when you think of a village. I mean, they're making food over a fire, and there's wells, and there's kind of these really kind of rough. A rough town in terms of how things are built, but in a way incredibly genius. Like, they have exactly what they need, you know, but it's a pure village. And there's this photo of me and my sister, my mom and dad and just that entire section of the family and we're like out in the sun and it's this old film photo that I look at. And it would be cool to just do that day, just go do that day as a kid consciously and just sit in all of that wisdom with all those people. None of those people are around now, you know, And I think that that would be. Yeah, that would be a great use of the machine, you know, that. And like the first time I watched the Sopranos, like, I think would also be like that first, like I remember just being like, whoa, the Sopranos is the best show ever, right? So I think that would also like. It would be that. And then on the way back, imagine the machine kind of like does quick little and I go see a catch. Just like the first time you're like, oh my God, James Gandolfini, you know, whoa.

[Rachel Martin]

You can see Ramy Yousef in Mountain Head, which comes out May 31st. Number one. Happy Family USA is out now. Rami, thank you so much.

[Rami Youssef]

Thank you. This was awesome.

[Rachel Martin]

If you like that conversation, you should go back and check out my episode with Sterlin Harjo. He's the creator behind the show Reservation Dogs. And a lot like Ram Youssef, he has managed to navigate the pressures of representation with his own unique voice. He was a really lovely guest and I highly recommend that episode. This episode was produced by Summer Thomas and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Gilly Moon. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni and our theme music is by Ramtin Arablouei. You can reach out to [e-mail] we're going to shuffle the deck and we will be back with more next week. I'll talk to you then.

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