Tim Blake Nelson

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin
Episode Summary: Tim Blake Nelson (April 9, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Wild Card, host Rachel Martin sits down with acclaimed actor, playwright, and novelist Tim Blake Nelson for a raw, humorous, and deeply honest conversation. Known for his memorable film roles and his latest novel "Superhero," Nelson discusses formative life experiences, the meaning of creative truth, parenthood, marriage, and what it means to live a fulfilling life. Through the show's signature card-pulling format, wild and profound stories unfold, from nights spent in jail as a teenager to thoughts on American culture through superhero movies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Memories Round

• First Job Lessons

  • Nelson's first job was at the Tulsa Beef Company—meat packing as a teenager to pay legal debts from being arrested for public intoxication and spending prom night in jail.

  "I mostly cleaned the latrines...and I cleaned out the trucks with entrails and organs and maggots...I was pretty much the bottom rung." (02:15)

  • This humbling experience instilled in him a lasting work ethic and perspective upon entering the academic world at Brown University.

  "It caused me to take my life much more seriously, to be less frivolous with my free time." (04:35)

• Freedom as a Child

  • He found a sense of freedom fishing alone as a child in Jamaica, where his family spent long stretches.

  "I would venture out on my own every day and fish...gone from about 9 o'clock in the morning till 6 o'clock at night." (06:32)

  • This solitude as a child influenced his comfort in the isolated act of writing and his creative process.

  "I think that prepared me most of all as a writer, because it's a solitary pursuit." (07:55)

• High School Social Life

  • Lunches with a group of AP Latin students—an intersection of politics and the classics.

  "If you remained interested in Latin, you usually weren't bored by reading about the military and politics in ancient Rome, and so therefore you were probably interested in current affairs." (10:07)

• The "Roman Empire" Meme

  • Rachel jokes about the social meme of men thinking about the Roman Empire—a moment met with Nelson’s introspective humor.

  "I'm embarrassed to say that I've done no reading on this topic...you just are it." (11:44)

2. Writing and Artistry

• Why Writing Matters

  • Writing offers Nelson creative control denied to actors.

  "Because as actors, no matter how successful we might become, we're always beholden or reliant on others to give us work...I guess I'm just too neurotic and restless to want to cede that much control..." (13:51)

  • The joy and solitude of writing hark back to his childhood love of fishing.

  "Like fishing as a kid...I've never stopped [writing]." (14:57)

• Genesis and Themes of "Superhero"

  • Inspired by a story of Hollywood excess on a Guillermo del Toro set, Nelson saw the superhero genre as a metaphor for American culture and society.

  "Movie sets are little societies, and big movie sets are not so little societies...The superhero narrative is a distinctively American thing." (17:58)

  • Marvel movies as legitimate artistic expressions, despite controversy in the film world.

  "I think that Marvel movies are incredibly artistic and can be incredibly daring. But I'm interested in the argument." (20:31)

3. Insights Round

• Biggest Risk: Marriage

  • Nelson candidly names marriage as his biggest risk, given the trauma of his parents’ divorce.

  "I never imagined it would work long term...Even when I proposed to my wife of now 30, almost 32 years...it felt like I was out there, as they say, flying without a net." (22:11)

  • Growth in marriage requires genuine effort to know and hear one's partner.

  "My wife wanted most of all to be known and heard...I thought you do those things and you're just generally nice to a person, then what more do you want?...Turns out there was a lot more to it." (24:00–25:26)

  • Fatherhood, especially to three boys (contrary to his wish for girls), has been an unexpected joy.

  "We have a blast. And they're all...out of college. And I am loving life." (26:33)

• Sounds That Bring Ease

  • Tim flips the card onto Rachel, who describes the joy of hearing her son sing after school.

  "When Wyatt walks through the door and he's singing, it's just my peak...Joy to hear that." (27:55)

  • For Nelson, jazz piano—shaped by his father's passion for music—anchored his creative household.

  "Music, and in particular jazz music, was incredibly important. It gave my siblings and me an understanding of music that goes beyond the intellectual and theoretical." (30:25)

• Understanding Negative Emotions

  • Nelson reflects honestly on the power of negative emotions like vindictiveness in fueling artistic work and resilience.

  "I've been writing lately about how feelings of vindictiveness and recrimination are important as fuel in an artistic life...they can be used constructively." (33:06)

  • He emphasizes the creative value of accepting and redirecting feelings of rejection.

  "When I've been angry about a rejection...I've said I'm gonna overcome that and to hell with them...I learned not to feel bad about that, but to consider it inevitable and to use it." (33:42)

4. Beliefs Round

• How Life Should Be Judged

  • Above all, Nelson wishes to be judged as a parent and, alongside his wife, as someone who delivered artistic and creative sensitivity to their children.

  "I most want to be remembered as the parent of these three kids alongside my wife." (38:02)

• Past, Present, or Future Preoccupation

  • Admits a tendency to over-focus on the present, sometimes to the detriment of future planning.

  "I stick my head in my work, which in a way is sticking my head in the sand, and hide from the future by devouring the moment. And by doing so, I'm going to run out of time without knowing it." (40:30–42:14)

• Guiding Truth in Life

  • Creativity is Nelson’s highest guiding principle, an ever-present pursuit.

  "I wake up every day in search of creative truth and creative moments...those surprising truths are the ones that are most important to me. And I live my life for those." (43:04)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Childhood Fishing and Writing:
  "Barefoot on volcanic rock with calloused feet and as happy as I've ever been." (08:52)

• On Marriage and Growth:
  "Turns out there was a lot more to it than that." (25:26)

• On Artistic Resilience:
  "The maladies associated with negative feelings have been ones I've tried to turn to my advantage." (34:23)

• On Fatherhood:
  "I just have had the best time...We have a blast. And they're all...out of college. And I am loving life." (26:40)

• On Creative Truth:
  "I wake up every day in search of creative truth and creative moments, which are the same thing." (43:04)

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Important Timestamps

• First Job & Meat Packing Stories – 02:06–03:40
• Childhood Freedom in Jamaica – 05:41–08:52
• Lunch with the AP Latin Gang/Roman Empire Meme – 09:10–11:46
• Writing vs. Acting, Role of Control – 13:24–14:56
• Genesis of "Superhero" & Superhero Movies as American Microcosm – 16:22–20:03
• On Taking the Risk of Marriage & Family Growth – 22:08–26:33
• Sounds That Bring Comfort/Jazz Music – 29:36–32:20
• Artistic Fuel from Negative Emotions – 32:26–35:46
• How to Be Judged: Parenting & Creativity – 38:02–39:36
• Presence vs. Future Orientation – 39:46–42:14
• Guiding Truth: Creativity – 42:59–44:36
• Memory Time Machine: Scoring a Dramatic Soccer Goal – 44:36–46:22

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Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is candid, lightly self-deprecating, and full of gentle humor. Both Rachel and Tim connect on a personal, philosophical level, often pulling back the curtain on hard-earned wisdom and creative struggles, while peppering the exchange with playful banter and moments of heartfelt vulnerability.

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For more unforgettable conversations that get to the heart of what matters, check out Wild Card with Rachel Martin, wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Rachel Martin]

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[Tim Blake Nelson]

Feelings of vindictiveness and recrimination are important as fuel in an artistic life.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life, questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one back on me. My guest this week is Tim Blake Nelson.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I wake up every day in search of creative truth and creative moments.

[Rachel Martin]

There are certain actors I'm just gonna watch no matter what. Tim Blake Nelson is one of them. Whether it's oh Brother, Where Art Thou? Or Watchmen or smaller appearances like his episode in the show Poker Face, if Tim Blake Nelson is in it, I am watching. I think it's his face. His face seems like it's holding a lifetime of stories and all the joy and pain that goes with them. He puts all his storytelling experience to work in his latest novel. It's called Superhero. And I am so very, very glad to welcome Tim Blake Nelson to Wildcard. Hi, Tim.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Hi. You're not as glad as I am to be here. It's great to meet you.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, you're very, very kind. I'm such an admirer of your work. I have long wanted to have you on the show, and I'm so glad that we could make it happen. So, round one, Memories. I hold up three random cards and you pick even more randomly. One, two or three?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Two.

[Rachel Martin]

Two. What's something you took away from your first job?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Well, my first job was. My first job was working at the Tulsa Beef Company.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Which was a meat packing company. And this was in high school, in part to pay off legal debts from having been arrested for public intoxication.

[Rachel Martin]

This is already the best answer to this question of all time.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And spending my prom night in jail. Whoa. And so, yeah, I Woke up at 5:30 in the morning every morning. The summer before I went to college and I had to be at work by 6. I worked until 2 in the afternoon. They called me college boy. I mostly cleaned the latrines where meat packers would go to Urinate and defecate. And I cleaned out the trucks with entrails and organs and maggots and with a high powered industrial hose. And I was pretty much the bottom rung.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And that was a great prelude to going off to college and putting everything in perspective.

[Rachel Martin]

Indeed. Your parents were supportive of this. Or maybe it was their idea that in order to hate, it was their idea. You need to get a job and this will suit.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

It was my second infraction by that point. My parents were divorced, recently divorced. And so I was just being cared for by my mother at that point. And she said, there's no way I'm paying your legal bills.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, good for her.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I worked those problems out in college and I'm a much more responsible individual now at the age of 61.

[Rachel Martin]

So you went, if I'm not mistaken, to Brown, right?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yes. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

So you said that gave you perspective. But can you talk a little bit more about what that experience, what that job did for you when you started walking around in these fancy elite circles?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yeah, I was a classics major and it was a pretty rigorous program and I had to get very, very serious once I got there because the work was rigorous. So the lesson I learned was don't waste these opportunities that you have. And I guess that it caused me to take my life much more seriously, to be less frivolous with my free time. And also it placed me within the world to have to get up at 5:30 in the morning and do the most blue collar of blue collar work.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. There's a work ethic that you have to build a foundation of, a work ethic. And it sounds like that was fundamental to you.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yes.

[Rachel Martin]

And good for your mom. Okay. 1, 2 or 3? 3.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

3.

[Rachel Martin]

What activity gave you a sense of freedom as a kid?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Fishing.

[Rachel Martin]

Fishing, okay. What kind?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

All sorts of fishing, actually. But I started in, of all places, Jamaica.

[Rachel Martin]

Really?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yes. We effectively lived there when we weren't in school. So from a few weeks after school ended in the summer until a week before school commenced again in the fall, and then also for our entire winter breaks, we just decamped to this place called Sansan outside of Port Antonio, Jamaica. So it was in something of a backwater area,

[Rachel Martin]

but still, I imagine, a far cry from Tulsa, Oklahoma. That is a different culture.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And I was very young when we started going there. And one of the aspects that my siblings and my parents loved about Jamaica was at that time, certainly they could just do what they did in Oklahoma and open the door and let us roam and do whatever it was that we wanted. So I would venture out on my own every day and fish. And I made friends in the local community, Jamaican kids my age, and I couldn't get enough of it. And so I was gone from about 9 o' clock in the morning till 6 o' clock at night.

[Rachel Martin]

Wow.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Just out on a boat on the water with my Jamaican kid friends, fishing. But then also I did it a lot on my own. When friends didn't want to hang out or weren't able to hang out, I would spend the entire day. I could spend the entire day just by myself. And I think that prepared me most of all as a writer, because it's a solitary pursuit. And I just learned as a kid to go off on my own and crack little snails and put them on a little hook and catch a fish, maybe that big, a little parrot fish or maybe a mudfish, and then use a bigger hook and catch a barracuda or a needle fish and spend the day doing that.

[Rachel Martin]

And no one's around. I mean, if you're. If you're not with your friends, you're. There are no adults, that is. I mean, you're just wandering the world barefoot fishing. That is. I imagine that was like the pinnacle of freedom to a young boy, barefoot

[Tim Blake Nelson]

on volcanic rock with calloused feet and as happy as I've ever been.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Okay, last one in this round. 1, 2 or 3. 1. 1. Who'd you eat lunch with?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

In high school, there was a group of us in AP Latin, and we were very serious about our Latin, I imagine. And as people interested in the classics generally are, there was also an obsession with politics and current affairs, and that was always a great time.

[Rachel Martin]

I guess you just said there's a natural relationship between people who are interested in Latin and political affairs. And I was someone who was very interested in politics and international governance, and I'm 0% interested in studying Latin, Tim, so make this connection for me. What was it about the classics when you were like, whatever, 15 years old that you're like, yes, Latin.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

So in terms of your response, what I didn't say is that people interested in politics and international relations.

[Rachel Martin]

That's true.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Are invariably going to be interested in classics. It's more the other way around at that time. And I don't think this is as true anymore. If you were studying Latin, you mainly read beginner texts by Tacitus, Livy and Julius Caesar, and all of those texts were either about military exploits or Roman history. If you remained interested in Latin, you usually weren't turned you weren't bored by reading about the military and politics in ancient Rome, and so therefore you were probably interested in current affairs.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm giggling because did you catch this little cultural moment when there was a lot going around on the Internet about how a certain type of man, when left to his own devices and when he's just sitting in a state of emptiness, that the thing that came into his mind in this prototype of a man is the Roman Empire, and that this is what men think about constantly, even if they're not conscious of it, that the rise and fall of empires and thinking about the military exploits of the Roman Empire in particular is what preoccupies men's minds.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I'm embarrassed to say that I've done no reading on this topic. I was completely unaware of it because

[Rachel Martin]

you just are it. You just are it.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Tim, you've piqued my interest.

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[Rachel Martin]

So we're going to talk explicitly about your new novel. People might not know if they just recognize you from your acting that writing is a very central part of your creative life. You've written many plays is well, how do you. How do. How does writing. What does writing give you in a creative sense that acting has not fulfilled for you over the years?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

First and foremost, it gives me A measure of control. Because as actors, no matter how successful we might become, we're always beholden or reliant on others to give us work. And that starts with the writer, but it also means that the director and sometimes the producer and studio are going to approve you or going to want you to work on their project. And so there's a lot of waiting around that goes on in an actor's life, particularly early on. And I guess I'm just too neurotic and restless to want to cede that much control over my creative life to others. And so even in college, when I was learning that reality I was. Was writing.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And it, I learned quickly, wasn't just a panacea for this issue I had of powerlessness, but it was something I enjoyed tremendously. Like fishing as a kid.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And so I've never stopped. I just. I almost look forward to the time between parts when I don't know what I'm going to do next because I can wake up every morning and go to the computer and write.

[Rachel Martin]

So the book is called Superhero, and it's a story. I mean, the setting is Hollywood, but it's really about some pretty wounded folks. One in particular, your protagonist, Peter. Who's this? A list actor who's lived some life. He's dealt with addiction and bad behaviors associated with it, and he's trying to make a big comeback. And the vehicle for this comeback is a superhero movie. How did this particular story capture your imagination? When you're between acting projects and you get to your computer and you're so excited to have your writing time, how. How is it that this particular narrative settled into your consciousness?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I was on a set of Guillermo del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities that was being directed by Guillermo's longtime DP collaborator, Guillermo Navarro, who shot his first four movies and won the Oscar for Pan's Labyrinth. And. And he told me a story about an actor who had taken him to dinner and shut down much of a restaurant for this dinner so that they could have privacy. And this struck me as a really interesting metaphor for the peculiarities of the world of tentpole filmmaking. And what interests me about that world is that I think it's in its own way, a microcosm for America.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, well, let's go down that road. I mean, I was just going to ask all kinds of questions about what fame does to people and the immense amount of money that goes into this kind of filmmaking. These tentpole films, these, like, huge, huge franchises. But I'm gonna put a Pin in that. Because I wanna understand how you see the big box franchise, tentpole movie as a reflection of our country.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Movie sets are little societies, and big movie sets are not so little societies. Like any society, you have status, you have pecking orders, you have jealousy, you have gossip, you have ego politics, you have ego, and you have politics writ large that express politics that are. Are national and international, just in the very nature of the project. And the superhero narrative is a distinctively American thing. It only could have happened in America. And I'm not just talking about the superhero movies. I'm talking about the comic books as well. And the kind of Manichean black and white look at good and evil, the morality, the optimism that good can triumph over evil coming out of either. The first great war, the second world war could only have occurred in America, a relatively young country whose borders have never really shifted other than the great crime that was westward expansion. But then the superhero movie as an outgrowth of that, if only because only American studios can afford to make those sorts of movies. And then they're projected out into the world to where, you know, you can be at the most remote village in the Amazon and you'll encounter a kid with a Hulk T shirt.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, yeah, the cultural power, the exportation of American culture through the superhero movie. Yeah, that's the ultimate soft power. Right.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

So all of that is why it's America.

[Rachel Martin]

Right. And I'm wondering, as a person, you've done a turn in the Marvel Cinematic universe as an actor. I mean, are these. Is it interesting to you, the work itself in a creative way, or is it. Is it just. You're clearly interested intellectually in it right from a remove. But when you're doing it, when you're in it, is it satisfying? Is it creatively satisfying?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I've done three Marvel movies at this point. All three were creatively quite rewarding. And I really deeply admire what's been accomplished in the mcu. I'm all for it, and my novel, as a result, is not some hit piece. But I'm also interested in the deeper conflicts. And one of the big questions that has arisen. And you know, people like Martin Scorsese and many other great filmmakers in the industry who've said, look, these movies aren't art. I don't agree with that. I think that Marvel movies are incredibly artistic and can be incredibly daring. But I'm interested in the argument, yeah,

[Rachel Martin]

it's a compelling read. It is a literary read. It's the most literary thing I've ever read about a Superhero movie. So congratulations. I hope you had a good time writing it. It seemed like you did.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I did. I had a blast writing it. And I hope to continue to be able to write books.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. This is round two. Insights is what we have happening here. All kinds of insights will emerge. 1, 2 or 3, 2, 2. What's the biggest risk you've ever.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I'm gonna say marriage.

[Rachel Martin]

I love that answer. Yeah.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I never imagined it would work long term.

[Rachel Martin]

Any marriage or your particular one?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Both.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Even when I proposed to my wife of now 30, almost 32 years. And so I took what I considered at the time an enormous risk.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Because I certainly didn't want to go through divorce having watched my parents do it. And I didn't want to put children through a divorce having experienced that as a son. And, wow, it felt like I was out there, as they say, flying without a net. And then as it became more and more rewarding, I wondered why I even considered it a risk in the first place. And then discovering that everything I felt was important and essential, much of it was actually secondary. And there was stuff that I didn't even imagine needed to animate. A growing marriage that had to be there and that I had to learn.

[Rachel Martin]

Like what.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I think most of all it was. And this is going to sound terrifically cliche, but learning that my wife wanted most of all to be known and heard. And I just thought, well, the hardest thing here is going to be, which it is for anyone, particularly men, to be just blunt about it, staying faithful and remaining interested in. And in love and reliable. And I thought you do those things and you're just generally nice to a person, then what more do you want? Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm up on my end of the deal, Right.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yeah. And so I guess there needed to be more of a commitment to mutual growth, I guess.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. And mutual understanding and really committing to knowing a person.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yeah. There's a lot more to it than that, turns out.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And then the raising of kids. I didn't know what the hell we were getting into. And even there, I said, I don't want to have girls. I want to have. I mean, I don't want to have boys. I want to have girls. Because Philip Roth had said to my friend John Turturro, they were working on a project together. And Philip Roth said to John, do you have children? And John said, well, yes, I have a boy. And Philip Roth said, well, it's over for you. And John said, what? He said, well, he has to kill you. Whoa, you're Done. Now I love Philip Roth. And I had my own version of this. I said to my wife, they're gonna argue with me and try to destroy me, and they're gonna play the electric guitar really loud.

[Rachel Martin]

Your mythical boy children.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. And I want girls. That's. It's. It's just gonna be so much easier. It'll. Well, we had three boys.

[Rachel Martin]

I was just gonna say you totally jinxed yourself, Tim. You can't say that stuff out into the universe.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And I just have had the best time. It's just been. I just. We have a blast. And they're all. There's. One is a junior in college and the other two are out of college. And I am loving life.

[Rachel Martin]

You're not watching your back.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

But. But at the outset, it was all a monumental risk and one that I couldn't be happier to have taken.

[Rachel Martin]

Well, congratulations.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Thank you.

[Rachel Martin]

It's a thing to celebrate. A long love. Next. Three. One, two or three.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

One.

[Rachel Martin]

What's a sound that instantly puts you at ease?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

You.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, come on, give me a break.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

No, I'm saying you answer it. Although so vain.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm like, Tim, the sound of my voice.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I do have to say, however, that I do love. I did love on Morning Edition.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, God.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And it's great to associate your face with that wonderful voice.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, so you're flipping a sound that instantly puts me at ease. I will tell you, it is the sweetest sound. It is when my oldest child comes in at the end of the school day. He's 13 and he sings almost every time when he walks in the door. It makes me weepy. He sings. He sings whatever is in his heart. He'll sing a random pop song. He'll sing a. He'll hum a song he's learning on the piano. He'll sing a made up song that we've made up while making breakfast in the morning. He just sings. And when that happens, then I know it has been a good day for him. And they're not all good days, but when. When Wyatt walks through the door and he's singing, it's just. It's my peak. Joy to hear that.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

That is a great answer.

[Rachel Martin]

That's a great answer, isn't it? I hadn't even. It's just what came to mind because I was thinking about it yesterday when he came in the door. I'm like, God, I love that you do that, kid. I love that you do that. And that he's not self conscious about it either. Because a 13 year old can get all kinds of twisted up in self consciousness and so.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And anyone can when they sing, too.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we do a lot of singing in our house, so I'm glad it's carried over. Okay. You

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Jazz piano. And it's a. It's an interesting history. I'm lucky to have a father to whom music, and in particular jazz music, was incredibly important. And it gave my siblings and me an understanding of music that goes beyond the intellectual and theoretical because it was always playing on his little cassette recorder in the house while he worked. Always.

[Rachel Martin]

Wow.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

He couldn't work without it. And animated for me a lifelong interest in. In music to the extent that I worked at a record shop, also to pay off legal bills.

[Rachel Martin]

There's a through line here.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

But always have worked to music. But then I married a woman who loves music and is a wonderful singer and plays the guitar. And as we were raising our three boys, she said, I want a piano in the house. And so we have a piano in the house and all three boys are musicians. And it brings me incredible comfort.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you like Keith Jarrett?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Love Keith Jarrett.

[Rachel Martin]

I love Keith Jarrett. I have very limited exposure to jazz and jazz piano, but someone. I lived in Japan after college and this Italian.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yeah, the Kyoto concerts.

[Rachel Martin]

This Italian scientist who I knew gave me. It wasn't the Kyoto concert. He gave me the Kern Concert, the Kern Recorder.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

There's a movie about that, by the way.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, is there?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yeah, there's a German film about that that just came out.

[Rachel Martin]

It was the most beautiful, emotive thing I had ever heard at that point. And to think that it was all just happening organically in him, and then you can hear him breathing and working the sounds of the piano, and I just. I'd never heard something so alive.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I absolutely adore Keith Jarrett. And with him you have the melding of classical and jazz in such a beautiful and delicate way.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. One, two or three?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Three.

[Rachel Martin]

Three. What emotion do you understand better than all the others?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I want to be honest here. And so I'm checking off all the negative ones because I suspect it's going to be one of those. And because if you're not honest, why is a show like this useful?

[Rachel Martin]

That's true.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I certainly understand love deeply because I have so much of it in my life between my wife and my children. And so I'd love to say that that's number one, and maybe it is. It's around me always now, and I can only hope that that will persist. But I've been writing lately about how feelings of vindictiveness and recrimination are important as fuel in an artistic life, and how they're not to be repudiated or ignored or dismissed, but since I believe they're inevitable in the human condition, that they can be used constructively. And I've endeavored to do that in my life in a pretty serious way, because when I've been angry about a rejection, I think back on those moments and how I've gone home or back to my computer or thought about the next audition or the next meeting with the director, and I've said I'm gonna overcome that and to hell with them. And I'm gonna show everybody I learned not to feel bad about that, but to consider it inevitable and to use it. And I just have to admit that it was useful in not giving up, right? And so in whatever successes I've had, The maladies associated with negative feelings have been ones I've tried to turn to my advantage.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, that's a fundamental tool of resilience in living a life, because we're all going to suffer rejection. And so how do you not quell your anger, but treat it with care and turn it into something useful?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

We want to think of artistic pursuits as pure, but I don't think you can do without turning rejection and the feelings associated to your advantage.

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[Rachel Martin]

Cs apply last round beliefs 12 or 3?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

2.

[Rachel Martin]

How do you think your life should be judged?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I. Based on the father that I've been. That's number one. And artistic pursuit is tied up in that because part of parenting for my wife and me has involved interlacing the rearing of children with a sensitivity that is foundationally artistic because that's the way we've spent our lives.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Arguably, our most traditionally academic kid, which is our youngest kid, is also a really serious jazz drummer. And we. If he wanted to do that as a profession, I'm, you know, my wife and I would be delighted with that. I don't think that's what he wants to do. The other two are, at least at this point, pursuing professional lives as artists. And I most want to be remembered as the parent of these three kids alongside my wife.

[Rachel Martin]

That's beautiful. Three new cards. 1, 2 or 3?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

1.

[Rachel Martin]

Are you preoccupied with the past, the future, or neither?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I think probably I'm more preoccupied with the present. And that's a battle because I think it's a dangerous game in which way not thinking about the future in a conscious and conscientious way can be pernicious.

[Rachel Martin]

And there is a preoccupation culturally right now to just be in the present all the time.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And I'm guilty of that. I'm absolutely guilty of that. And I use it to my advantage. But ultimately it's going to be to my disadvantage because I stick my head in my work, which in a way is sticking my head in the sand, and I hide from the future by devouring the moment. And by doing so, I'm going to run out of time without knowing it. It's sort of that phenomenon that my wife and I rehearse constantly in our discussions of our lives since our children have gone with the one, a junior in college, so he'll come back and live in our place this summer. But we effectively consider that.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yeah. Look, There's all this stuff that we said we wanted to do, like live in another country, and we're not doing it because you're writing your novel or you're doing the next acting job. And so I guess that's kind of what I'm talking about in a very specific way. But it's bigger than that.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Because I do get caught up in how extraordinary I think what's right in front of me is and how it is going to demand all of my attention. But then when that's done, I'll have time.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

But then when it's done, there's Always something else. And that's a kind of prohibitive existence in the presence at the present that becomes dangerous.

[Rachel Martin]

I get it.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And I need to get better at that.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Last 1, Tim. 1, 2 or 3?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

1.

[Rachel Martin]

What truth guides your life more than any other?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Creativity, Which I guess perhaps is not a truth. Does that suffice? I wake up every day in search of creative truth and creative moments, which are the same thing, because I do believe in that Tom Waits line. Everything you can think of is true. And when I think, I want to be thinking creatively. And when I wake up in the morning and I'm going to go and write or I'm going to be on a set playing a part, I'm always in search of what I never could have predicted, but which, once it occurs in retrospect, feels that it was inevitable. And that dichotomy is that those surprising truths are the ones that are most important to me. And I live my life for those.

[Rachel Martin]

Timberlake, Nelson. We end the show the same way every time, with a trip in our memory. Time machine. Okay. You get in the time machine and you revisit one moment from your past. It's not a moment you want to change anything about. It's just a moment you'd like to linger in a little bit longer. What moment do you choose?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I loved soccer growing up. Just loved it. I was obsessed with it. And I played varsity soccer in high school, but I always rode the bench. I was never a starter.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

So I wasn't very good. But one Saturday during the spring in club soccer in Tulsa, Oklahoma, I was right wing.

[Rachel Martin]

Yep.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And I accomplished what is called a diving header, which means that I dove and hit the ball with my head as a header. And I scored a goal.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, my God. In the most dramatic fashion.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yes. And this was something that I practiced with my little buddies when we would just play soccer constantly among ourselves. We would throw the ball in the air and do a diving header to act like we were Canalia or Pele somebody. And we would do bicycle kicks. And I actually scored one in a game.

[Rachel Martin]

I can't believe it.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

And that is probably as meaningful a childhood memory as I have.

[Rachel Martin]

Isn't that incredible?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

It was my one moment of athletic prowess.

[Rachel Martin]

Ah, Tim. Blake Nelson. It has been such a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much for doing this. His newest novel is called Superhero, and it's out now. Thank you so much.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

This was my pleasure.

[Rachel Martin]

If you like that conversation, you should go back to my episode with Nick Offerman. He's another actor where if I see his name in the cast list, I'm definitely gonna check out that project. In our conversation, he was thoughtful and he was kind, and his profound love for his wife, Megan Mullally, just shines through the entire conversation. You can watch it by searching for NPR Wildcard on YouTube. This episode was produced by Summer Tomad and Mitra Arthur and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Becky Brown, Wildcard's executive Our executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni and our theme music is by Ramtin Arablouei. You can reach out to [e-mail] we're going to shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. Talk to you then.

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