Tracee Ellis Ross (Live)

Summary

Wild Card with Rachel Martin — Tracee Ellis Ross (Live)

Episode Date: July 16, 2026
Location: Live in Pasadena, California

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Episode Overview

In this joyful and revealing live episode, Rachel Martin hosts acclaimed actress, producer, and entrepreneur Tracee Ellis Ross in a candid conversation shaped by the “Wild Card” format. Pulling questions from a deck, Ross reflects on her childhood, self-image, career turning points, relationships, solo travel, and her ongoing journey to self-acceptance. The episode balances humor and depth, capturing the vibrant energy of a live audience and the distinctive warmth and honesty of both women.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Childhood, Imagination, and Rejection (00:44–05:19; 08:30–14:56)

• Imagination as a Kid:

  • Tracee’s imagination thrived on clothes, playing dress-up, creating characters, and even staging her own wedding and funeral as a child.
    • “I always loved pretty things... playing dress up, which sometimes turned into different characters... it was adorning who I was wanting to become, you know?” (02:50–03:18, Tracee)
  • She’d watch herself cry in the mirror and loved being dramatic.
    • “I remember laying on my floor in my closet... and I would lay on the floor and cry and watch my face cry.” (03:38–04:11, Tracee)

• What She Rejected as a Teen:

  • Never drank, smoked, or tried drugs—Tracee felt no interest in being in an altered state.
    • “I personally don’t have any interest in being in an altered state. My experience of being me is quite an altered state.” (09:46–09:58, Tracee)
  • Even now, the very idea of trying ayahuasca or Benadryl makes her uncomfortable, finding amusement and discomfort in people’s assumptions.

• Early Decisions About Self-Image:

  • As a young Black girl in a predominantly white school, Tracee decided to interpret people’s stares as admiration, not judgment.
    • “I remember making a very clear decision... they were staring at me because I was gorgeous.” (10:47–11:21, Tracee)
  • She acknowledges battling societal pressures and internalized beauty standards (“It’s a back and forth. It’s a very fluid conversation that I’m always having with myself.” – 12:50–13:39, Tracee)

2. Defining Career Choices & Taking Different Paths (05:24–08:05)

• Career Turning Point:

  • Worked as a stylist and fashion editor after college, almost choosing that over acting.
    • “I had this realization... that as much as I loved clothes, it wasn’t enough of a form of expression for me.” (06:54–07:49, Tracee)

• Analogy to Her Current Life:

  • Still expresses love for fashion by styling herself: “This is me getting dressed.” (07:59–08:03)

3. Solo Travel and Learning to Be With Herself (16:30–18:46; 19:46–22:44)

• The Show – ‘Solo Traveling with Tracee Ellis Ross’:

  • Explores the joy of being one’s own company and the metaphor of solo travel for self-discovery.
    • “Are you willing to let your life be your own? Are you willing to be responsible for your own happiness?” (16:46–17:01, Tracee)
  • Solo travel, like singlehood, gave Tracee space to discover what she loves, outside of waiting for validation or partnership.

• Tips for Solo Travelers:

  • Suggests easing into it—dining alone then working up to movies, etc. (20:06–20:38)
  • Shares a humorous and poignant story of solo dining in Italy, feeling the poignancy of aloneness and “making a different choice” when things felt uncomfortable.
    • “By the time I got back to my hotel, I was like, ‘my little God sized hole inside of me is a little wounded right now.’” (22:14–22:44, Tracee)

4. Clothing as Self-Care and Self-Expression (22:44–25:18)

• For Tracee, clothes began as armor against the world’s judgments (“defending myself against sexism, racism, all those things”) and now are a joyful, creative outlet.
  • “That is how I wear my insides on the outside and how I tell myself I matter.” (23:13–23:45, Tracee)
• She feels she is “the special occasion”—everyday dress is self-honoring.

5. Living With Uncertainty, Growth, and Fears (25:40–29:56)

• Being in Over Her Head:
  • From childhood, Tracee faced high-stakes situations (growing up as Diana Ross’s daughter).
    • “From a young age, I was in high stakes, scary scenarios... I learned how to manage my own fear.” (26:06–26:43, Tracee)
  • She deliberately faces fear, such as singing for the movie The High Note, challenging expectations.
    • “Every time I opened my mouth to sing, I knew everybody was listening to ‘Am I as good as her?’” (28:31–28:53, Tracee)
  • Full circle: sharing her song with her mother, Diana Ross, moved them both to tears.
    • “‘Finally,’ she said.” (29:29–29:35, Tracee)

6. Parental Influences and Humor (30:00–33:53)

• Dad’s Influence:
  • Inherited her nose, humor, organizational skills, attention to detail — and her beauty routine!
    • “My dad, early, was like always, swipe up, swipe up, daughter, don’t swipe down.” (32:24–32:34, Tracee)
• Mom’s Role:
  • Diana Ross, despite fame, was always present, nurturing, and a “mom” first.
    • “She’s just the lady who woke us up for school and put us to bed and sat with us for dinner.” (33:53, Tracee)

7. Taking Yourself Less Seriously & Moving With Intention (34:23–36:55)

• Tracee (and audience) shared wisdom on letting go:
  • “What have you learned to take less seriously? Myself.” (34:23–34:27, Tracee)
  • Inspired by a castmate to “move at the pace of my nervous system, as opposed to the demands of my day.” (35:49–36:11, Tracee)
• Discussed surrendering timelines and not trying to fix other people’s problems.

8. Spirituality, Agency, and Being “The Chooser” (41:46–46:14)

• Has a private but important spiritual practice that helped her stop seeing her feelings as facts.
  • “I do believe there is something bigger than me. I am really grateful that I do. I did not always know that.” (41:52–42:15, Tracee)
• Played “Joan” on Girlfriends, a character always waiting to be chosen — had to unlearn that message herself.
  • “I can be the chooser, as opposed to waiting to be chosen ... my life is mine, which, as a woman, is not easy to own.” (45:36–46:03, Tracee)

9. Aging, Mortality, and Embracing the Years (46:24–49:19)

• Tracee doesn’t fixate on death, chooses to focus on living vibrantly.
  • “I look forward to my face telling the story of my life. I look forward to my life being a testament to what I’ve lived.” (48:21–49:19, Tracee)
• Loves getting older with her friends and welcomes each new stage.

10. Self-Compassion: “You’re Okay” (50:04–51:33)

• The main truth guiding her life:
  • “You’re okay. I’m here. I’m here. I’m not going to leave you.” (50:18–50:36, Tracee)
  • Has learned to affirm herself, reinforcing “I belong to me.”

11. Asking for Help, Connection, and Not Doing Life Alone (52:47–53:33)

• Tracee celebrates her ability to ask for help and acknowledges none of us can do life alone.
  • “I know how to ask for help. I know how to say, I don’t know how to do this. And I’m not afraid to say I don’t know how to do something.” (52:47–53:08, Tracee)
• Values both independence and connection (“I don’t want to be an island”).

12. The Memory Time Machine - Grieving Ladybug (54:23–57:03)

• If Tracee could revisit any moment, she would linger longer with her late dog, Ladybug.
  • “One of the great loves of my life was my dog, Ladybug. Ladybug and I were two sassy bitches who lived together… She taught me how to love in a different way.” (54:39–55:30, Tracee)
  • Speaks tenderly of the privilege of being present for Ladybug’s passing:
    • “I would go back to that moment when she gave me the honor of walking her through her death. It was the honor of my life.” (55:30–56:24, Tracee)

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Memorable Quotes

• “My experience of being me is quite an altered state.” – Tracee Ellis Ross (09:46)
• “I just feel like I am the special occasion.” – Tracee Ellis Ross (23:13)
• “I belong to me.” – Tracee Ellis Ross (50:49)
• “I look forward to my face telling the story of my life.” – Tracee Ellis Ross (48:21)
• “I know how to ask for help. I’m not afraid to say I don’t know how to do something.” – Tracee Ellis Ross (52:47)
• “She taught me how to love in a different way. God, I love that girl.” (speaking of her dog, Ladybug) – Tracee Ellis Ross (54:41)

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Notable Moments (with Timestamps)

• 01:22 – “My life is mine, which, as a woman, is not easy to own. And not only is my life mine, my body is mine.” – Tracee Ellis Ross
• 12:24 – Tracee on deciding to love herself despite being “othered” at school
• 16:30–18:46 – Discussion of “Solo Traveling with Tracee Ellis Ross” as a metaphor for inner and outer journeys
• 22:44 – Tracee’s story about the challenges and reality of solo dining in Italy
• 29:29 – Tracee shares an emotional moment with her mom after singing in The High Note
• 32:28 – Beauty routines learned from her father, including comical FaceTime demos
• 36:11 – The lesson of moving “at the pace of my nervous system”
• 45:36 – “I can be the chooser... my life is mine.” – agency after years of internalizing different narratives
• 54:41 – Tribute to Ladybug, her late dog: “I would go back to that moment when she gave me the honor of walking her through her death.”

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Closing Thoughts

This live “Wild Card” episode captures Tracee Ellis Ross’ magnetic presence, authenticity, and wisdom. Through laughter and vulnerability, Tracee shares how she’s learned to celebrate herself, choose her own path, honor her inner voice, and find joy in both solitude and connection. The episode is a testament to self-discovery, resilience, and the radical act of being one’s truest self.

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(Advertisements and podcast outro have been omitted for clarity.)

Transcript

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[Rachel Martin]

Hey, folks, just a heads up, this episode was taped in front of a live audience in Pasadena, California. You can watch this episode on our YouTube channel, and I really think you should. You need to see Tracy laugh to really appreciate her essence. Just search for NPR Wildcard on YouTube, and while you're there, subscribe to the channel so you can be sure not to miss an episode. What did you reject as a teenager?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I didn't drink at all. I didn't smoke a cigarette, and I've never tried a drug.

[Rachel Martin]

You're not one of these public figures in LA who goes on ayahuasca trips?

[Audience Member or Additional Voice]

Oh, yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I could think of nothing worse. Like, nothing worse. Benadryl makes me uncomfortable. I'm like, why do I feel like this?

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wild Card, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life, questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one question back on me. My guest this week is Tracy Ellis Ross.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

My life is mine, which, as a woman, is not easy to own. And not only is my life mine, my body is mine. My ideas can be mine.

[Rachel Martin]

Tracee Ellis Ross is a supremely talented actor. You've seen her on the hit show Black Ish and before that, Girlfriends. She's also a style icon, the CEO of her own beauty line, a newly minted Broadway star, and host of the TV show Solo, Traveling with Tracee Ellis Ross, which returns for a new season this month. But most importantly, Tracee Ellis Ross is a supremely good time. I know this because I got to spend time with her at a live taping of our show in Pasadena with our friends from Laist. Tracy is a deep thinker, an excellent storyteller, and she is just game for life in a way that's contagious. We're gonna play a game.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I'm so excited. Okay, here we go.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, first three cards. Tracy in the memories round. One. Two or three?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Two. Two.

[Rachel Martin]

When you were bored as a kid, where would your imagination take you?

[Audience Member or Additional Voice]

Ha ha.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

To the.

[Rachel Martin]

I didn't even hesitate. This was a very young.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, my God. I always loved pretty things.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Oh, really?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Well, let's see your mom had some pretty stuff to play with.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. My imagination. Well, it's funny. I mean, three things pop into my mind. Clothes, playing dress up, which sometimes turned into different characters. And when you say young, you mean, like 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. Well, I mean, 53. Anything's younger than now. So I would play dress up, which I loved. And I think it was one of the ways that I kind of became myself. It was, like, sort of adorning who I was wanting to become, you know? I also loved to dream of my wedding.

[Rachel Martin]

Did you?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Or my funeral.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It was either everyone was celebrating that I was being loved the way I should be, or everyone was crying that they hadn't loved me the way they should have. Listen, I'm an actress. I'm a performer and an artist at heart. I'm dramatic. I mean, at the same time, I would also. I remember laying on my floor in my closet. The mirror, you know, was on the inside of the closet. And I would lay on the floor and cry and watch my face cry, and I would tear, and the tears would drop down. I mean, did you really? Absolutely.

[Rachel Martin]

And what happens? Your parents come in and like. Oh, God, Tracy.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No, I mean, you know, my sister. I remember one thing. I was constantly trying on clothes, and my sister, she was trying to come in. I was like, I'm naked. And Jenny said, what are you doing? I said, I'm trying on an outfit. And she goes, my God, you're always trying on an outfit. I said, chugging. You never know when you're gonna get hit with something good. You gotta just play. I mean, like, I was always. I was dramatic, obviously. Okay, I've settled a bit. But it was a little. Just a little. But. So, I mean, I had a big imagination. I had a big imagination. I still have a big imagination. I. I love that.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, next one. One, two or three?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I want one. One, one, one, one, one.

[Rachel Martin]

When's a moment in your life when you could have chosen a different path? Your reaction, it's so affirming.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It is. It's so affirming.

[Rachel Martin]

Ooh, good one. So good.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

When I could have chosen a different path.

[Rachel Martin]

Are you editing?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I was thinking relationships is what?

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, you can answer it however you want.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I. I just think of.

[Rachel Martin]

Let it come. Let it come.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I just think of all the relationships that I desperately wanted to work, and I'm so glad they didn't. Yeah. So when I got out of college, during college, I was modeling a little bit.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

And Mirabella magazine. I don't know if anyone remembers that. Oh, this is a nice age group. Thank you. I feel really good. Thank you so much. So I had gone in for a model call, and I ended up meeting Grace Mirabella and Jade Hobson Charnon, who were the editor in chief and creative director of the magazine. And they were like, would you ever want to be an intern or come for as an editor? And so when I graduated from Brown University, I went into.

[Rachel Martin]

This is Brown.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I know this is a very affirming audience. I've had so many lives. I became a stylist, and I worked at Mirabella magazine. I met my best friend there, Samira Nasser, who's the editor in chief of Harper's Bazaar now. And so I was a fashion editor. We left Mirabella magazine and went to New York magazine together, the two of us, with Jade Hobson Charnin, and I worked there for quite a while. And I had this. I was in acting class at the time, but I had this realization that as much as I loved clothes, that it wasn't enough of a form of expression for me, that I couldn't tell enough of my story through clothing, and that I was gonna continue telling those stories on myself, but that I wasn't gonna do it externally for other people. And so that was a turning point. And I could have gone in that direction and been a fashion editor and a stylist or, you know, but I did not, and then came to LA and jumped off the cliff.

[Rachel Martin]

Plus, I feel like you could still do that if you still wanted to.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I do it on myself. I mean, you know, this is me getting dressed.

[Rachel Martin]

It's worked out.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, so now the third question in this round, we are gonna let you guys decide. So my friend and producer, Summer Tamad, is gonna take the stage with Summer, a beautiful flipboard. Go, Summer. Okay, so now, guys, Summer's gonna flip it, and there's gonna be three questions on it.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I can't see it. Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

No, you can look at it.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, Here we go. So you can read. I will also read. Number one, what did you reject as a teenager? Number two, what's an early memory of appreciating beauty? Or number three, when's the time you realized you were on the right path? So now, by your applause, we're gonna vote. Okay, so do your Vanna White thing. Number one, what did you reject as a teenager? A lot of enthusiasm for that. Number two, it's an early memory of appreciating beauty. Number three, when's the time you realize you're on the right path.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I felt like it was number one.

[Rachel Martin]

I feel like it's number one. What did you reject as a teenager?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Teenager? Tracy, what did I reject? Oh, I mean, I didn't drink at all. I didn't smoke a cigarette, and I've never tried a drug.

[Rachel Martin]

You rejected all those things.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I rejected it all.

[Rachel Martin]

You rejected the trappings of.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I genuinely did.

[Rachel Martin]

Adolescence.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I had not an interest in the world. And if I was near anyone doing it, I was scared to death and would walk away. Absolutely. To this day, it freaks me out. So how come.

[Rachel Martin]

How did that happen?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I don't know. I don't. Like. I personally don't have any interest in being in an altered state. My experience of being me is quite an altered state.

[Rachel Martin]

You're not one of these public figures in LA who goes on ayahuasca trips?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, yeah. I could think of nothing worse. Like, nothing worse. Like, not at all.

[Rachel Martin]

Really.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No. That is just not my thing. Like, Benadryl makes me uncomfortable. I'm like, why do I feel like this? No, I'm really not that person. Like, I'm really not. Like, I really like alcohol mostly because I like stemware. Like, honestly, like, I'm like. But, ooh, I just feel so grown up. You know what I mean? Like, it's like a high heel in a glass.

[Audience Member or Additional Voice]

Woo.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

You know, I also just had another memory.

[Rachel Martin]

Give it to me.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I remember as a young girl. So this was Dalton. So I was. It was maybe fifth, sixth, sixth grade. Somewhere in there, fifth, sixth, seventh, People were staring at me. And I think I was the only black girl of my friends. And I remember making a very clear decision, and it was a choice that they were staring at me because I was gorgeous.

[Rachel Martin]

Really?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. I really made that choice. Now I tell you again that this is not a linear situation. I have gone two steps forward in 83, back many a time. I am susceptible to all of what society throws at us. I've taken it all. It has taken me down. I've stood back up. I've done. I've. I've been through and continue, especially at this age, to experience that very loud information that we have to fight against. You know, I'm. I'm a face with not any Botox and no fillers and no nothing, you know, And I don't say that because I have any judgment of anybody who does those things, but I say that because patriarchy can seep in, in many ways and places, no matter how sturdy you are in your soul. And so that choice I made was really interesting. To me. Because I do remember it as a choice.

[Rachel Martin]

You do?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I really do. And I was quite young. I remember other things too. I remember teaching myself how to smile so that my top lip would go away and look like the other girls. I can do it now.

[Rachel Martin]

Isn't that so funny? All I wanted was to have a better top lip.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, I used to try to smile like this, so. Because mine is as it wears.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. So, I mean, I literally.

[Rachel Martin]

I was like.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

You know, I used to do. To my. I used to grab my tush and walk. And if I could still hold it in my hand, I. In my head thought that was part of my skin I didn't need. That was part of my body I didn't need. Yes. You know, and that's not. It wasn't coming from my mother. Do you know what I mean? So it was the things that seep in. And so it's a back and forth. It's a very fluid conversation that I'm always having with myself. But I do have a sense of. I don't know what one would call it, that I said that to myself. I wouldn't let it be. I wouldn't believe that it was. That I was somehow less than. I wouldn't let it. I wouldn't let that be the case.

[Rachel Martin]

Or you were gonna be othered. But it was because of this exceptional feature.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Because it was an exceptional feature. Correct. That's what I decided. And I really did make that decision. And I mean, you know, when I was modeling, there's so many. I remember the head of the agency remains nameless. Wrote on my composite. What do you call the contact sheet? Face to angular. Doesn't know how to use it. I mean, I held.

[Audience Member or Additional Voice]

You saw that.

[Rachel Martin]

Ah, they sent it back to me. They send it like feedback, like constructive.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I don't know what they thought. I'm like, well, I can't change the angular, but it is what it is. I guess I better learn how to use my angles. Hence why I'm like, this is my good side. I don't know. I mean, there's so many of those. We all have them. We all have so many of those moments, those stories, those things. And somehow the negative comments are Velcro.

[Audience Member or Additional Voice]

The.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

The good comments kind of slide off your back. I don't know why that is. You know, I can say you read comments on social media and you will repeat it to somebody and say, everyone's saying it was one comment. And you will say, everyone's saying it's not true.

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[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Solo traveling with Tracee Ellis Ross. That's me.

[Rachel Martin]

It is fantastic. And when I saw, I saw Instagram clips of it and then I actually saw the show. So the whole premise of the show, if you haven't seen it, is that it is there is a big wide world out there.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Can you be yourself by yourself out in the world?

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

So that's really the premise of the show. And then underneath that is, can you are you willing to let your life be your own? Are you willing to be responsible for your own happiness? And I really do feel like solo travel is either the trip you're gonna take or it's the journey you're gonna choose. And it's really about an internal experience, whether you're in a partnership or not, of knowing yourself and, and learning yourself and then letting yourself enjoy yourself, that delight that you can find on your own. And I think societally, as women, as black women, we are taught culturally to take care of everyone else, to put other people's needs first. And that is a beautiful part of being of service to those that we love. But there's also the act of being of service to ourselves. And so the show is sort of a metaphor for that. But it's also the beautiful trip that you get to take in the fun. And sort of. Don't get me wrong, I do luxurious things. The locations that I go are luxurious. I travel luxuriously. But I do think that luxury is not about how much things cost. Luxury is the time and the space that you give yourself and the attention to yourself and the attention to yourself. And so, yes, when I travel, I do take care of myself. But that's born out of the fact that in life, I really do take care of myself. And it's come. Honestly, I've been. I'm single and I've been single, and I have not yet met that partner, that person, that man that I want to be with. That feels like an addition. But in these years of not having a partner, I have had the space to really discover my own self and to learn what I do love and not wait for a people, a place or a thing to seek the life that I want to live.

[Rachel Martin]

When I was young, I. I haven't done a lot of solo traveling for fun, but I had jobs where I lived alone. If I was posted at a foreign bureau.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

And I love that expression. You sound silly. I know it sounds a little pretentious. It sounds pretentious. Bureau.

[Rachel Martin]

I don't know. I was saying. I really was.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It doesn't sound pretentious. You sound like you're on the Diplomat. I'm like, oh, my God, I want to know her.

[Rachel Martin]

What did you wear?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Did you wear a comfortable shoe? Was it a cross body bag? Like, what are we about?

[Rachel Martin]

Talking.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Talking about. Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

Public radio, baby. Public radio. The opposite of stylish. I think I had a Timbuktu bag, though. That's what I'm saying.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Across body for, like, ease and comfort. Did you always have everything with you? Like, you know what I mean? But anyway, please, I'm sorry.

[Rachel Martin]

I learned how to eat alone, which is a specific skill. And I was very weirded out by it when I was younger. And I wasn't, like, super young, but I was in, like, my, you know, mid-20s. And I remember I was in Berlin and I was like, buying.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

She's just really saying all the things.

[Rachel Martin]

You, too can go there.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

You can go. I mean, but I go on assignment,

[Rachel Martin]

and you should go to this pizza place in Mitte. And they made me feel so taken care of, and I stopped being scared of it. But it really. I think everybody should learn how to

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

eat by themselves, you know, that's actually one of the things I tell people, is if you have an interest in Solo drinking, travel. But you're nervous. There are things you can do to kind of step your way there. And one is to start by having dinner by yourself. If that is even too much, you can start by going to the movies by yourself because it's dark, but you can sort of step your way into it. And I say to people, start with 5:30, dinner. When the restaurant opens on a weekday. The graduate program is a Saturday night at 8 o'.

[Rachel Martin]

Clock.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

And if you can do that and like order dessert. Exactly. And sit there. Now can I tell you, May I? Will you indulge me with a story? Now? I am now 53. I have done a show called Solo Traveling with Tracee Ellis Ross. And on my last trip to Italy, I went for work. And I had days in between before my next stop. And I was like, I'm gonna stay for three days. I'm a solo traveler. I'm gonna make my plan, my dinners. And I went to a restaurant and as I was leaving the hotel, he said, you don't have no, you are meeting someone. And I said, no, I'm not meeting anyone. Oh, okay. No, maybe not meeting anyone. Later I go to the restaurant. But you're by yourself. I said, yes, I am. I'm by myself. Oh, ok. So they sit me down at the table. No one comes. I'm just sitting there. And I was like. They're like, oh, you're just you? I said, yes, it's just me.

[Audience Member or Additional Voice]

Okay.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

So he comes with the menu. He's like, what would you like? No wine. Nope, no wine. Cocktail? No cocktail.

[Rachel Martin]

It's just me.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I just want to get the dinner. Then I'm going to go back to the hotel because I've had enough of this. And he said, I said, can I get the sea breast? Oh, well, it's for two. Come on. Swear to God, it kept going. He said, but it's for two. And I said, maybe I'll eat what I can. No, no, it's for sharing. Okay, okay. Could I get the. But it's also for two. I was like, is this a fucking joke? Like what is happening? So I said, could I get two sides? Yes, yes, yes. So they bring me the sides. Whatever. By the time I got back to my hotel, I was like, you know what? My little God sized hole inside of me is a little wounded right now. And I tomorrow night am going to order room service. But that's also part of it is like sometimes it doesn't go as planned. Sometimes it actually triggers the things that don't feel so good. And then you can make another choice. You don't have to keep going into the wound. You can actually make a different choice. And I sat there with my iPad and I watched industry and I ordered pasta in my room.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you want to talk about how you dress yourself?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yes, please.

[Rachel Martin]

Because it's also part of the self care.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

And I love that idea. I was single for many, many years and lived alone. And sometimes just the act of like I am taking myself to dinner and I am going to pick clothes that make me feel good, that make me feel powerful and beautiful and treat myself and that's like your everyday. At least it seems like it on the show.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, I just feel like I am the special occasion.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

You know, and I. I like to feel comfortable, but I like to feel beautiful. Sometimes my clothes make me feel powerful. You know, clothing started as an armor for me, a way that I was kind of. I didn't know it at the time, but I was defending myself against sexism, racism and all of the things misogynoir, like the whole thing. But I didn't know that that's what was coming at me. I took it personally. And I think some of it is because I, you know, I come from money, I come from fame. I just all, you know, like there are all those things that sort of were protecting me from a lot of the sexism, racism and all of those things. But still out in the world I was just a black girl. And so clothing was one of the ways that I felt that I could kind of present to the world that I mattered. And it has become a form of creative expression for me. That is how I wear my insides on the outside and how I tell myself I matter. And it's just a way that I honor myself and listen to my inner voice and what makes my. I mean, in the morning, it's so funny. I go into my closet and it's sort of like, I'm gonna start with pants. I'm like, no, no. Today it's all about the shoes, you know, and something forms out of that. Like today, you know, I told you I have bad knees. And so I knew I wanted to wear a flat. Started with the shoe. It started with the shoe. Yeah. But I thought I was gonna wear a different flat because I thought I was gonna wear a different outfit. And then I saw the background and I was like, I don't know about that.

[Rachel Martin]

Did someone just. Did you guys see how our shoes match the background?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

We didn't plan.

[Rachel Martin]

Did not plan.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Just divine magic. Yes. Divine magic. And I told you this before, but I'll say it on the mic in front of the people. Really nice dress.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, God, please.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Really nice dress, Rachel. Thank you. Ok.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm not going to lie. It's a little stressy to be like, I'm going to be on Sado Fairy Tales.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I'm sorry. It should not be stressy. No, it's zero percent now. It should be joyful.

[Rachel Martin]

We're moving to round two. Insights? I feel like we've already heard some.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Okay, here's some more. Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

One, two or three?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Well, I've done two and one, so let's do three.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. Why not?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

When have you been in over your head so many times? Do you not get stressed out about that? Do you take. Is that just your modus operandi? Like, I don't know how I'm going to do that and I could be overwhelmed and I'm just going to go through that door anyway.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, yeah. From a young age, I was in high stakes, scary scenarios. Not scary as in my life is in danger, but my mom's Diana Ross. So, you know, you leave security. I mean, people would bang on the limo and we would go places. I said limo because it was then, you know. Now you say suv. I don't know. You know, it was that. That. I mean, that's strange.

[Rachel Martin]

That's a strange way to grow up.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's a strange way to grow up.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

So I learned how to manage my own fear. I'm still making sense of that, working with it, you know, all these things. But then I chose a career where it's, I mean, you host the American Music Awards live. It's a little scary, you know, anxiety provoking. It's not scary. And I face my fears on a regular basis. Can you read the question again?

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. When have you been in over your head?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Just all the time. But it doesn't bother me.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, well, that's.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It doesn't bother me. Yeah, it really doesn't. I mean, I was just thinking of when I did the movie the High Note. I was playing a music star and I had to sing. It had to be as if I had put out many albums throughout my career. I had to go in the studio, I had to record music. I had to even some of the performances within the movie. I was on a stage with an audience. Yes. They were background players and people that knew that they were coming and they hadn't bought tickets to come and see me. But I had a live mic and I was Singing the songs that I had learned that apparently were Grace's songs. And, you know, when I was 22, my mom said to me, it's time for you to do an album. And I decided to be a comedian. Okay. You see what I did there took a different path, one that I could own. You know what I mean? Oh, my God. I mean, that's a little scary. No, I mean, just think, you know, 2272-82. 82 to 92. So 1992, I had done modeling and all these big things. I have so many lives already thinking back, and that terrified me. I had sang in high school, and I had sang in talent shows, and it was terrifying. It was terrifying. Every time I opened my mouth to sing, I knew everybody was listening to Am I as good as her?

[Rachel Martin]

For sure.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

You know, and it was terrifying for me. But I will tell you, the full circle moment of that, which I told when I was doing press for that movie, which was so wonderful, is that I. When I had the first song completed, I drove to my mom's house and we sat in my car. Cause music. People love playing their music in the car. Cause it's like surround sound. It's true. It's actually really. It's weird. Cause you're like, are you listening to yourself? Like, I don't understand what's happening, but so it's like a thing. So I, like, brought my mom, I pulled her up to her house, she got in the car, and we listened to the song. And she held my hand, and she looked at me with tears in her eyes. It's like a movie. Anyway, she looked at me with tears in her eyes, and she said, finally.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I mean, it's so, like, Geez Louise. But, like, Geez Louise, you know? So, yes, I do. I lean into them, and I think that's how I get bigger every time. How I grow every time. How I learn to really belong to myself.

[Rachel Martin]

Three new cards. 1, 2 or 3?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

2.

[Rachel Martin]

How do you see your parents showing up in you?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Let's talk about my dad. My sweet dad.

[Audience Member or Additional Voice]

Bob.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Bob Ellis.

[Rachel Martin]

How's your dad show up in you?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I mean, well, my nose, first off.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

My sense of humor is my dad's.

[Rachel Martin]

Is it?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. It's literally like. I mean, the other day, I was talking to my dad while I was driving, and I stopped, and I was like, dad, is it weird that you're talking to yourself? He was like, it's the weirdest thing in the world. And I remember when I was younger, my mom always used to say, I don't understand. I divorced this man. How is he sitting next to me? Like, I'm just so. I'm so much like him. I'm so much like my dad. So we have the same sense of humor. We get really revved up in the same way. Like, don't put us with your kids before bedtime. You know what I mean?

[Rachel Martin]

It sounds like you two are conspiratorial in a way.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, we're just like, I don't know. He's a very special human. He's delightful. He is a delightful human being.

[Rachel Martin]

It's good company.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

He's great company. He has the same. I have the same love of detail that he has, you know, like, when he came and saw my new house, like, he was like, ah, don't rush me. You know what I mean? He was like. It's like, just absorbing every. Like, every nook, every cranny.

[Rachel Martin]

Does he appreciate the aesthetics like you'd.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

He does. And, like, I just went and saw his apartment because him and his wife just moved into. My stepmom just moved into a new apartment. And I was like, oh, my God. It was going everywhere, just everywhere. And, you know, my dad and I are both very neat and very organized and very clean. And I went to his apartment, and I was like, my God, I feel like I could eat on this floor. Like, I just. It's like I was in his closet. Everything is folded just so. And I was like, oh, my God.

[Rachel Martin]

It's like.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's like my dream.

[Rachel Martin]

It's like.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's, like, so good. Everything is just a who and a who and a who and a who and a who and who. Yeah. So I'm so much like my dad in all those ways. In all those ways. It's so sweet. Also, I will tell you the best part of how my dad shows up

[Rachel Martin]

in me

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

beauty routines.

[Rachel Martin]

Say more.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Swear to God.

[Rachel Martin]

One with the beauty routine.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, my God. My father.

[Rachel Martin]

Your dad, Diana Ross. And he's the one with the beauty.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

He is the one with the beauty routines. I'm telling you right now. My dad, early was like, always, swipe up, swipe up, daughter, don't swipe down. So the two of us constantly are, like, trading things back and forth. It is hilarious. The other day, I was trying to explain to him how to do lymphatic on my face, and he was like, I don't understand. Slow down. I don't understand. Slow down, slow down, slow down. And I was like, do you want me to just FaceTime you? He said, yes, FaceTime me. I said, fine, he's just turned 80, okay? I said, yes. He said, yes, I'll FaceTime. So I sit the phone in front of my sink, like I'm doing a TikTok or something, and I'm doing my face routine for my dad. And he was like, you gotta send me those things. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

So you had lovely parents.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Lovely parents. But my dad didn't raise me. My mom raised me. My dad did not raise me. I had a much closer relationship. He was always around. My parents have stayed friends. I don't. They divorced when I was around 7, I think my mom, you know, we all know who she is, but she's a very present, very. Just the lady who woke us up for school and put us to bed and sat with us for dinner and with breakfast and, you know, was a mom. She's my mom. Yeah. I mean, she is my mom. She is your mom. She's not a was. She's. Yeah, she's an island.

[Rachel Martin]

There's a special thing that we did. We sent questions to you all and some of you wrote your answers to them. And they're round two questions, insights. And so I thought I would read a couple here. And the question is, what have you learned to take less seriously? Which is a good round two questions. What is your answer to that question?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Myself. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Isn't that a good one?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, very much so. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Harder.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

When you're younger. It is, yeah. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

You learn it in time, the stakes stop being so high about what other people carrying.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

What other people can do. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. We don't have names attached to these, but the first answer is, I take many things less seriously. After surviving breast cancer, but mostly running late and being messy, I am much more accepting of both. I used to be so hard on myself, but after going through cancer treatment, I don't stress over those two things. Who cares? I am here, alive and healthy.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Amen to that.

[Rachel Martin]

Thank you for sharing that.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Thank you for sharing that, whoever that was.

[Rachel Martin]

Next one.

[Audience Member or Additional Voice]

Ah.

[Rachel Martin]

Thank you for sharing that.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Thank you for sharing that.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. I've learned to take urgent demands less seriously. And time in general. There's a time for everything. I can't go faster than I'm able. I love this one so much.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I love that, too.

[Rachel Martin]

Because I made a recent decision after leaving Morning Edition on purpose, that I needed to be slow. Does someone wanna raise their hand? Whose was this? This is a lovely one. Oh, this is lovely.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, it is.

[Rachel Martin]

To take life slower to move with intention through your day and to just like, oh, I try to check myself all the time because I get so stressed and in the car and I'm late and I agree it's toxic.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. I always. My favorite. It's one of the, like. One of the questions I ask myself at an end of a day is like, how did you honor yourself? And like, you know, and one of the things that comes up when I think I did well is I moved at the pace of my nervous system. Oh, that's a good one. As opposed to the demands of my day. And the other. I actually learned that from Anthony on Blackish.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, really?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. We would come out of our trailer and we always waited for each other before walking to set. And I would always be like barreling to set because I hate when people are waiting for me. And he would walk somewhere. Anthony, what are you doing? He's like, they can't start till we get there. And he wasn't. But he wasn't.

[Rachel Martin]

He wasn't being a jerk about it.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

He wasn't being a jerk and he wasn't moving at a pace like, you know, I'm going to move. He was just walking intentionally. And it taught me something. And when I'm really, there's too much in my day, I do say to myself, move. At least you can move slowly from A to B. Yeah. You don't have to run from A to B. And the truth is when you slow down, you actually get more done. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

And you're a better version of yourself when you show up to the thing

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

that you're supposed to be present for. It's not easy. It's easier said than done. And you know, just cause we know better doesn't mean we do better. No, I know. But I do. It's such a good reminder. It's such a good reminder.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. This one's good.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I love that. Thank you.

[Rachel Martin]

What have you learned to take less seriously? Timelines for life events. Parentheses. Marriage, kids. Yes. Surrender those timelines. Last one. What have you learned to take less seriously? Other people's troubles. This is a tough one for a lot of people. Support is one thing. Trying to fix things for others in most cases is not my place. This is a hard thing for the helpers among us.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I love that expression. We don't do for others what they can do for themselves. Yeah, yeah. Or give from the overflow. Which is not always the case, you know, I mean, when you're being of service to somebody who's not. Well, when you have A loved one who's not well. These are, you know, easier said than done, but it's that old metaphor. You put your life mask, your, you know, oxygen mask on first or you can't be of service to anyone to ask.

[Rachel Martin]

Thank you for sharing all those.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, that was really beautiful.

[Rachel Martin]

It was really, really nice.

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[Rachel Martin]

So we're moving to our last round, folks. Last round. This one's my favorite.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

This is lovely.

[Rachel Martin]

Mainly because the cards are orange and I think they're pretty.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Do your friends call you Rach?

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, my God. I mean, I don't know why I reacted that way. Some of them do. It's just that when I was little. When I was little, I didn't like it.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

And so I told my siblings to stop calling me Rach. And then my brother responded by saying, okay, Rach.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh. Oh, my God. There's nothing like a sibling. There is nothing like a sibling. What do you.

[Rachel Martin]

Why do you ask?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

What do you like to be called?

[Rachel Martin]

You can call me Rach.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No, I was asking, like, Rachel is here with me, and I call her Rachel all the time. Or Lady Carton, But I didn't want to. I want to call you by the name you want to be called.

[Rachel Martin]

Rachel.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Rachel.

[Rachel Martin]

Dame Rachel.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Dame Rachel. That works. That works.

[Rachel Martin]

Duchess. Rachel. Rachel Spang.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, I mostly like Tracy, but I have someone who calls me Rossi.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, that's cute.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

No, I was really bummed I didn't have a nickname when I was growing up. She's only a nickname able name. And I went to Girl Scout camp with my friend Rachel Rohr, whose name was also Rachel. And when we got an assignment to put our nicknames, this was the assignment. Stamp your nickname into this leather keychain with, like, a leather stamp. And I had an existential crisis because I did not have a nickname. So I looked over at Rachel Rohr,

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

and you asked, and Rachel Rohr was

[Rachel Martin]

stamping in the letters R, O, C, K, Y. And I was like, that is a cool ass nickname.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

So you had the same.

[Rachel Martin]

I put Rocky on my keychain and brought it home to my mom. And she was like, rocky? I'm like, it's my new nickname.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

That's hilarious. Do you have a middle name?

[Rachel Martin]

Elizabeth.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Elizabeth. And you weren't working with that one either?

[Rachel Martin]

No. I told a babysitter once my name was Liz. I was trying it on for size.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

It didn't stick. I'm just Rachel.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

It's fine.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's good.

[Rachel Martin]

I like my name.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's good.

[Rachel Martin]

Suits me.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Okay. It does suit you.

[Rachel Martin]

Thanks. 1, 2, or 3?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

2. I'm liking the twos.

[Rachel Martin]

2. How do you tap into something bigger than yourself?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I do believe there is something bigger than me. I am really grateful that I do. I did not always know that it has taken the octopus off my face because I feel like my feelings were facts, you know, they were. It was. You know, and

[Rachel Martin]

say more about that. What does that mean? In what way?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It was hard for me to see beyond myself. And I remember somebody asking me, do you try and figure out how the light turns on when you do the switch? And I'm like, no. So do you need to know how electricity works? No. So can you believe that there is something bigger than you? A higher power that. That is not just run by what I am shouldering, what I have to get done, take care of, be responsible for. I have made a practice of not sharing the specifics of my spiritual life because those are very sacred and private for me.

[Rachel Martin]

But you have one.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I have one. I do. I do. And. And I'd be lost without it. And I was lost without it.

[Rachel Martin]

So it has been a relatively recent evolution.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I wouldn't say recent. Good. 20 years or so. 20, 25 years, something like that.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

But I wasn't a child that had this big spiritual life, you know, And I. Yeah. So you built it for yourself. Oh, I built it.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. I mean, it's something that I talk about and I've spoken about a lot publicly, and I had to think about why I speak about it publicly. But this idea of being the chooser, as opposed to waiting to be chosen. And the reason I think I started talking about it so much publicly is that I spent eight years on the show of Girlfriends. 173 episodes, 22 to 24 a year, for eight years, speaking the language and the voice of somebody who was waiting to be chosen over and over and over and over again.

[Rachel Martin]

Wow.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Weeping about it, having this huge life, and not feeling worthy because she hadn't been chosen.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, my God. I didn't think about the psychic imprint of doing that.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Neither did I. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

And it. I really had to untangle myself out of that belief system. And, you know, it didn't come from nowhere. I was playing a role that mirrors what society tells women. And what an awful thing to have to reconcile if you are a person who has not yet been chosen. You know, I remember when I started doing press for Girlfriends, one of the journalists asking me, he's like, but who's gonna believe that you wouldn't be in a relationship? And I was like, well, I'm not.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm not lying.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Like, you know, I mean, like, Tracy, like, Joan was not in a relationship, but I'm like your character.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I mean, you know, so I don't know. You don't have to believe it, but it's true.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Right.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

And there's many people it's true for, of course, you know, and so what are we going to decide? That it's because there's something wrong with us, or are we gonna decide you haven't met the right person? I don't know. Or there might be some inquiry to do about yourself or whatever, but. So I really had to ask myself these questions. And what I came up with was, I can be the chooser.

[Rachel Martin]

Right. You have agency.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yes. And I also came up with, oh, my life is mine, which, as a woman, is not easy to own. And not only is my life mine, my body is mine, my ideas can be mine. And that's revolutionary. I understand that. But it's also my truth. It's what is true for me. You don't have to adopt that. But it's true for me. And as a matter of fact, I don't judge anybody who doesn't believe that. It's what I believe, and it's given me a real sense of liberation in my life.

[Rachel Martin]

Thank you for sharing that. Three new Cards. One, Two or three?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

You guys pick three. Three. We can do two. Next.

[Rachel Martin]

How often do you think about death?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, I don't.

[Rachel Martin]

What about your funeral?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I did that. Then you don't think about death? I don't want to think about that.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No, you know what I think about? I think about life. I think about living my life the way I want to live my life. I really do. And I think that's been one of the gifts of turning 50. I'm 53 now, so I'm, like, in it. You know what I mean? I'm like. I'm like, hey, I got this thing. And, you know, I personally. Most of the people and women that I'm just like, huh, they are in their 80s and 90s. Like, I think I'm like, yes. Like, I want that. You know, these people just get better. I don't understand this obsession. I just. I remember as a young girl, I saw these women, and they had these things under their eyes that were so beautiful to me. I was like, when I get older, am I gonna have that? Am I gonna have. It was wrinkles, bags. I thought it was so, like, an adornment. I genuinely. I was like, that is the sexiest thing I've ever seen. And I remember, I was like, do you think I can get that? And then I was like, oh, my God. When I look down in the light, I can see them. They're gonna come. By the way, I also thought my boobs were the bottoms of my ribs when I was young. I would, like.

[Rachel Martin]

I mean, suck in.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

And I was like, one day, I'm

[Rachel Martin]

not gonna have to suck in.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

They're just gonna come out. My imagination was wild.

[Rachel Martin]

There's a question in the deck. It might come up. It's, what do you look forward to about being older? Your answer is bags.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No. I look forward to my face telling the story of my life. I look forward to my life being a testament to what I've lived. I look forward to having more ease in doing what feels right to me. I have. I look forward to. I look forward to getting older with all my best friends. I love it so much right now. Our text thread is so much more interesting than social media. The articles that we share with each other, the things that, like. I mean, the L.L. bean catalog, for some reason, was, like, really getting in that thread for a minute. Like, I was like, is this what's going on?

[Rachel Martin]

I thought you would say we also

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

share all the other stuff. And I was like, is this where we are? I was like, this is where we are. Like it was. It's just so affirming. I find it so affirming. I feel so grateful to be getting older.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah, right.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I mean, I'm honored. It's a privilege. I feel honored. I feel so much more in my skin. I felt like being in my skin was excruciating. Growing up, I didn't want to be in here. I wanted to be someone else. I wanted to be thinner. I wanted to be taller. I wanted to be this. I wanted to be smarter. I wanted to be. You know? And now I just want to become more of myself, you know? And I feel like that is, like, I just want more examples of that in the world. Like, I see it in people. And I'm like, tell me about you. Like, how do you do it?

[Audience Member or Additional Voice]

What do you do?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

What are those glasses? You know what I mean? Just, like, it's so interesting to me.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. One, two or three?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Should we go with two? Two. Okay, two.

[Rachel Martin]

What? Truth guides your life more than any other. Like, we've heard a lot of your truths, but when you ask it like that, you gotta boil it down.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

The first thing that comes to mind is, you're okay. Yeah. Yeah. You okay?

[Rachel Martin]

Like, how you say it in that

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

voice, too, makes me want to cry. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

And it's more powerful when you're telling yourself that.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. I mean, you know. Yeah. To be able to say, you're okay, honey. Not. You have to pretend you're not okay, but you're okay. I'm here. I'm here. I'm not going to leave you. I'm here. I have found myself getting back in my car and going, you did good. You did good today, Tracy. It makes me want to cry. Yeah. And being able. I think it goes back to this thing that I've been discovering in my 50s of, I belong to me. I belong to me. And so I can show up for me. I can hold me, I can affirm me. And it's a lovely muscle to have.

[Rachel Martin]

I feel this so urgently. We all need to be connected. We all need community. We all need family. But it's just us. And you gotta be good with.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

You gotta be good with who you are here. Or at least kind.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Kind to yourself.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. You know, I lost what I was going to say, so.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, my God. I thought you were going to be like, I lost my uncle.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No.

[Rachel Martin]

Three days ago.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Lost. And he always says, gone. You're okay. Yeah. You said, can you imagine? That would have been perfect. That would have been perfect. You just Said, we are so connected.

[Rachel Martin]

It's just us at the end. It's just us.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

My mom always used to say, by the way, she's like, if it's important, it'll come back. I'm like, does it, though?

[Rachel Martin]

No, I don't think it does.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I was. I was. Yeah. No. I don't know. Sometimes I'm like, hello.

[Audience Member or Additional Voice]

Hello.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I found myself the other day having lost the word chair.

[Rachel Martin]

You know what? And I straightened the a and the I.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No. But I literally was like, you know the thing with the. Let you sit on the.

[Rachel Martin]

Where the sitting happens.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. And they kept saying all these other words, and they were like, chair. I was like, yeah, chair. That's the word. I'm like, yeah, chair. Chair. Couldn't think of it.

[Rachel Martin]

You know what? Small victories. Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Small victories.

[Audience Member or Additional Voice]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

You did good, Tracy.

[Rachel Martin]

You did good.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Way to bring it around. But, you know, that's one of the things, though, I gotta tell ya. I know how to ask for help.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I know how to ask for help. I know how to say, I don't know how to do this.

[Rachel Martin]

Yep.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

And I'm not afraid to say I don't know how to do something. And I think that's a very important thing in life.

[Rachel Martin]

Surrender your ego about that.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. None of us can do this alone at all. I heard someone say recently, I'm not fit to do this by myself, this life thing. And I was like, I never want to be fit enough to do it myself. I don't. I want to be fit in other ways, but I want to always be in connection. I don't want to be an island. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

And I. And I do have island tendencies.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I can tend towards island.

[Rachel Martin]

Well, does that sit in contrast with solo traveling with Tracee Ellis Ross? Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I mean, no, That's. It sits connected to what

[Rachel Martin]

was that?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

A puzzle. Is this wordle? What's happening?

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

What is.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Cheers, Chair. Was that the question or the answer? I don't know what's happening. I agree.

[Rachel Martin]

Call my mom.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

She'll tell you.

[Rachel Martin]

I think we should just stop. I think we should just stop. There is one thing we need to do before we end. I don't know. I feel like we're the edges.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, my God.

[Rachel Martin]

Memory time machine.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

It's so fun. So, memory time machine.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yes.

[Rachel Martin]

Go back and you revisit one moment from your past. It's not a moment you want to change anything about. It's just a moment you'd like to linger in a little longer. Which moment do you choose?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, I Got it.

[Rachel Martin]

You got it.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I'm just going to linger in it for. Yeah, please, please linger there. One of the great loves of my life was my dog, Ladybug. Ladybug and I were two sassy bitches who lived together. She changed my life. She taught me how to love in a different way. God, I love that girl. She had a big tush like me.

[Rachel Martin]

Um,

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

she had very clear boundaries. I always used to say, you're here for me. And she would be like, no, I'm not. What are you talking about?

[Rachel Martin]

Blue Mola.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. She was like, what? And I always thought to myself, if I ever had kids, I was like, wow. I really would. I would build a person with an identity, because Ladybug really had an identity. And half the time when I was being whatever, she would just kind of go. But I would. Oh. I would go back to that moment when she gave me the honor of walking her through her death. It was the honor of my life. And she was right here. And we waited. We waited. I kept asking her, you got to tell me when you're ready. And she did. And I would hold in that moment for as long as I could. She was safe. I was safe. And I really loved that being. And they say that pets leave us when someone needs them more. And it was comforting to me to know that, because I thought I wasn't ready for her to go, but I was like, her life was not mine, was hers. And she changed my life.

[Rachel Martin]

Tracy Ellis Ross. The new season of solo traveling with Tracy Ellis Ross will be out soon. It has been my great, great pleasure to do this.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, my pleasure.

[Rachel Martin]

Thank you.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I wanted to do this so badly. Thank you all.

[Rachel Martin]

So many pics.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Thank you. Elainist.

[Rachel Martin]

You guys were awesome. Yes.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

What a treat to do this in such an intimate. With an intimate, beautiful audience.

[Rachel Martin]

You guys were wonderful. Thanks for sharing.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

So wonderful. Thank you.

[Rachel Martin]

Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. And just a reminder, if you would like your very own wildcard deck, you can find [e-mail] we have selected some of our very favorite questions from the show, and we made this custom deck just for you, our audience. It is absolutely awesome, and it is such a cool way to think about your own memories, insights, and beliefs over dinner with your family, maybe around a campfire, road trip, maybe with friends. It's a great game for a road trip. It's also just a wonderful way to connect and learn new things about people you're just meeting or the people that you've known all your life. Check it [e-mail] wildcat card deck this episode was produced by Mitra Arthur and Summer Tomad. It was edited by Dave Blanchard and mastered by Robert Rodriguez. Thanks so much to Michael Leyva, Rebecca Stummy, Lorena Nader, Jillian Ferry and Mikayla Perez at LAist. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni and our theme music is by Ramtin Arablouei. You can reach out to [e-mail] we're going to shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. Talk to you then.

[Audience Member or Additional Voice]

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[Tracee Ellis Ross]

The NPR network has always been powered by the people it serves. Not by shareholders or special interests, but by people like you and me who believe in a free and independent press. One year ago this month, Congress eliminated federal funding for public media. Together, we continue the kind of journalism that we, the public, rely on. Please Give [e-mail].