Rachel (0:00)

This message comes from Progressive and it's name your price tool, say how much you want to pay for car insurance and they'll show coverage options within your budget. Visit progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and Coverage Match Limited by state law. This message comes from NPR sponsor Lands End Outfitters. Your brand is important and they create apparel your team will want to wear. Go to business.lands end.com pod20 and use code pod20 for 20% off your first product. Just a little heads up. This episode contains a little bit of cursing. Hey, everyone, it's Rachel. I hope you're having a great holiday break and that you really have gotten a break. In the spirit of making things easier this holiday season, our team here at Wildcard has put together a curated best of episode just for you. The whole point of the game is to get to the good stuff fast, right? And that's what we're doing for you here, giving you our very favorite moments from 2024, wrapped with the bow for your listening pleasure. Moments like Lena Waithe describing the wizard of Oz as her religion, Ted Danson's optimistic spin on his fear of death, and David lynch being David Lynch. If you're new ish to the show, this episode is a great explainer for what we do here. And if you're a longtime listener, first of all, thank you a thousand times over. Thank you. Thank you. And I promise you're gonna love revisiting these card questions as much as I do. As always, we're breaking the show up into three rounds. We'll get deeper as we go. And a heads up, there's some profanity in some of these answers. We're starting with the novelist Tathy Brodesser Achner. Three cards in my hand. Pick a card, one through three. Two, two. Where would you go to feel safe as a kid? Oh, my gosh. When I was a kid, my mother had a brown Volvo station wagon. I think it's a 240. It was the one that everyone had at the time. And in the way back, which ironically is not a safe place, like no seatbelt. You're just sort of bobbing around and hoping that your mother, who is smoking cigarettes while she's driving, has her eyes on the road. That was the place I've always felt safe when I was in motion. Really? Yeah. Which says so much about kind of what a disaster personality I am. First of all, what specific motion? Not the car with your mom driving the car? Yes. The car being in transit, being not there yet. Because once you get there, you have to do something or arrive or be or accomplish. But when you're in transit, which I always was, my parents were divorced, and recently I took my children out to the east end of Long island and we passed the exit where my father lived. And they said, you did this every weekend? And I said, yeah. So I don't know if that's because. If I feel safe because I'm so used to it or because I think that being in transit is actually the only time you can stop. And now when I'm on airplanes, I have a couple of rules about airplanes. I'll always watch a movie. Like, I feel very safe when I'm protected from the demands of others. Wow. Yeah, it's weird. I guess I'm telling the truth here. I'm into it. Yeah. Do you feel that way now? I mean, this isn't really a memory thing anymore, but I'm just curious, do you feel that sense of security if you're in transit today? Or was that. You know what. Last night I was coming home from New Jersey from an event for the book. I was in a car and I saw New York. I saw the city where I live, across the river. And I thought, I'm so glad I'm not there yet. Because when I got home, I'd have to pack for today and figure out what the morning would look like. But right then I was just in this state of isolation. I wonder if a lot of sort of working mothers can relate to this. Being trapped in a state where you can't do anything but exist. It's the closest I think I get to stillness, weirdly. Yeah. And there's also like. Sorry, we have so many more questions to go through, but I'm stuck in this one because, well, it's. There's, like potential too. Right. I've always been really sort of addicted to the potentiality. Like, it might be great when I get home, it might be uneasiness. It hasn't. I haven't screwed it up yet. Yes, everything gets better. And don't tell me to stay here before I actually know. I mean, put me in traffic. Next up is one of my all time favorite comedic actors, who also happens to have a heart of gold, Rob Delaney. Pick a card. One. Two or three? Two, please. Two. What's a moment when a stranger made you feel loved? Oh, my gosh, you've really. I want to be honest with you now, but I have some memories that I've never told people before. Not ever anyone. And it's not that they're so intense, but they're just sort of like these touchstone things that I can revisit when I'm, like, sad or angry to think about people's goodness. And one is so strange. It's a snowy day. I'm in elementary school, maybe fourth grade, and I remember I was in a hallway at my school. I don't know if I'd gone to the bathroom or something. And an adult woman who didn't work at the school, I don't know who she was, but came in and, like, snow came in with her and was, you know, swirling around her, and it was like, a couple. It was maybe the last day of school before Christmas. And I remember she looked at me and she just said, I hope you have a Merry Christmas. And she made eye contact with me, and I'd never seen her before. And it just felt so nice to have an adult stranger look at me, a stranger boy, and just say something, you know, just. Nothing remarkable, but just a sweet thing. And that's, like, one of the larger memories of my crazy life, where you would think I would have more, but I just remember this woman doing that, and it just oddly touched me. I think she might have been an angel. I think she might not have been a human woman. You actually touched me. That's always. Yeah. Because why does it stick with me for so many years? So it's one of those things where, like, there was something deeper happening in that moment than just the words and just the eye contact. So, yeah, I think she was a special, special person who visited me. And I also feel nervous that I told you about it because that's, like, one of my sort of special memories. So please, anyone listening, forget you heard this, or alternately, please treasure it like I do. Thank you for sharing that. I think what I love about this question is that I think that's a particular kind of. Of love like that for me, like, when strangers do stuff. It just kills me when someone who. They could just move on with their day, but when they choose to, like, look at you, recognize you, and say something in a moment, that. It just destroys me. It opens me up in a way that someone. My best friend or my partner or a kid, if anyone else said the same thing, it wouldn't have nearly the impact as. As a stranger seeing you in that moment. And I love those experiences. They're. They're the best. Yeah, they really are. Last up for our first round is a man who doesn't give a whole lot of interviews, the legendary filmmaker David Lynch. One, two or three? Two, two. What was your form of rebelling as a teenager? Okay, well, I lived three lives. I lived a home life. I lived as kind of a school life where I say, with my sweetheart, my girlfriend, and the studio art life. So I had a studio during high school in downtown Alexandria with my friend Jack Fisk. So after school I'd go to the studio. And then, you know, also was a bit of a party animal. So I had these three lives, and I didn't want any of them to mix, really. So I developed spasms of the intestines. You developed a condition, so you created it for yourself. It was psychosomatic. It was a psychosomatic disease. Yeah. And what. What did it do for you? I. My pants. That's what happened. It was a horrible thing. However, I'll tell you a good side of this, okay? The Vietnam War was cooking up around this time, right? And my father took me to a doctor because this spasms in the testes. I got a intestinal. You know, one of these things where they look at your. Like a colonoscopy kind of thing. Yeah, colonoscopy hospitality, you know, whatever. Yeah. And the guy was a great doctor. And he pretended that as he was watching that it was a racetrack. And he said, here they go around this corner, they're going out rather than such and such. Number seven is in the lead. And they were going around this corner in your colon, following the colon ostomy. You know, he was. He was. As. He was telling me about my intestines. Anyway, he said, you have spasms of the intestines. And he said, by the way, I see on the X rays you have a vertebrae out of place. And if you ever called for the army, I can give you these X rays. And you probably won't be called if you want to get out. So spasms. Intestines. Led to a doctor that helped me get out and I didn't have to go to Vietnam. We started at what was your form of rebellion? And then we went to you compartmentalizing your life into three lives. And I think the thread is because you worked so hard to keep those lives separate, you developed a stomach disorder, and then you went to a doctor who happened to diagnose something not related that kept you out of Vietnam, is that right? Exactly. Wow. And let me live the art life, you know, in peace. And that was so beautiful. I can't tell you how lucky I've been in my life, how fortunate and lucky I've been. What were you rebelling against all part of life is a certain point children are supposed to rebel. It's part of getting prepared to leave the nest, and it's a healthy thing. It's just some rebel more than others. And I caused a lot of sadness and worry for my parents. I know I did. I had a great relationship with him, but I put him through a lot of trouble. This message comes from Midi Health if you're a woman over 40 dealing with hot flashes, insomnia, weight gain or brain fog, you don't have to accept it as just another part of aging. The clinicians at Midi Health understand what you're experiencing and know how to help. Midi Health provides specialized care for perimenopause and menopause covered by insurance. Book your visit today@join MIDI.com that's join M I D I.com this message comes from Noom Using psychology and biology to build personal meal plans to fit your lifestyle, taking into account dietary restrictions, medical issues and other personal needs. 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Yeah. When did you feel like you found your people? Oh man. I think you know Michael Svoboda, who was a writer's PA on the game when I was an assistant at Girlfriends. He and I just really vibed and he's just like, yo, I got a writers group that I do where we sit and we like write original pilots that we're working on to kind of help us get some stuff done. And I walked into that writers group and I met Justin Simeon who was working on something which ultimately would become Dear White People. And then Justin and I just really clicked and bonded and became friends. So that's really when it happened. So I just, like. I landed in there and I just, like, found all these amazing people that I'm still tight with today. Tell me how that jibes with Chicago and your experience there. Because it sounds like this. Your people were writers. Like, you needed to find your writer people. Yeah. Did you not have that in some way in Chicago? You know, I was a bit of a oddball, you know, in Chicago. Cause I was obsessed with tv. Obsessed with, like, movies. Like, people go to the movies and watch TV shows. It's a pastime. And I think my family could tell it was more than that for me. Was it moving you in a different way than it was your peers? I would be just enthralled by it and be thinking about it. Like, I have, like, some chest tattoos. I have, like, a power Line from Goofy Movie and Jack from Nightmare Before Christmas over here, like. Cause those are two very important movies for me. I have, like, a Wizard of Oz tattoo. I have Judy Garland here. You know, I have the lion. I have the scarecrow. I have all of it, like. Because that movie was more than a movie for me. It was almost like a Bible to life. It's like, where you are. You always think there's something out there that's better than where I'm at right now. But the truth is, when you go out there and get to the Emerald City and meet the wizard, you realize it's all. It's not really what you thought it was. And then all you long for when you're in the Emerald City is to go where? Home. Exactly. And it's a lesson none of us really learn still. You know, we still are trying to go, like, I gotta get to the Wizard. If I could just get to the Emerald City. If I could just. You know, I'm gonna keep. Everything will be fine. And then you get there, you're just like, I'm still not fine. And so I think what. The big reason why wizard of Oz is such a religion and a reminder for me is that there is no Emerald City that will feel like home. Was that sad for you? Was there a grief attached to that, or like. No, I think what it did was it helped me to stop. It helped me to slow down and to. I'm still, you know, driven and ambitious, but I've learned that there's no there there. Yeah. You know, it's like we're all chasing something. Cause the truth is, there's always something you want, and that's fine. You know, you need that thing to make you Want to go. But you gotta remember that it'll be nice if it happens, it'll be cool, but you don't want it to be a thing that if you don't get it, that you can't find happiness. Next, the incomparable Nikki Giovanni. Nikki died earlier this month, and the episode we did with her is full of the kind of wisdom, wit and joy that made her legendary. I am so grateful I got the chance to talk with her. One, two or three? Let's go for two again. Okay. What emotion do you understand better than all the others? Patience. I'm incredibly patient. It takes a lot to really push me. Yeah. Where does that come from? Well, I don't know. I'm the baby sister of two, so that teaches you. One, you're always watching your big sister because they're always so wonderful. They're prettier, they're more intelligent, everything. And so you always want to say, well, one day I'll grow up, or whatever. But most of my friends are older. I have very few friends who are my age. I'm 80. We were. I'm 81. Right. It's a long life already, Nikki. 81. And most of your friends are older than that. Some good longevity. Well, I'm hoping that Aunt Sarah, who was my mother's great aunt, but. And nobody liked Sarah, by the way. She was a despicable person, but she lived to be a hundred. So I do want that dream that lets you live to be a hundred. I think it'd be interesting to see what's happening in a hundred. My kids asked me that recently if I wanted to, you know, not just to 100, but, like, would I want to live forever? And then, you know. That's an interesting question to talk about with kids and how having a finite end to life sometimes creates appreciation because you think things are going to end, you know? But I said I would. I would. I would do it with some caveats. I just want my health. I just want. I want my body to still. To still work. I don't want things falling apart on me. Things are going to fall apart. And so that's, again, one of the things that you can hear in my breathing. It's because of the pneumonia. And that'll go away. This will get well. But I'm not afraid of, you know, being blind. I have a friend who's losing her sight and it makes her very uncomfortable. I think, what an opportunity to now see the world in a different way. I mean, look at. Look at Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder. So you say, well, they couldn't see, but look at what they created. So obviously they saw something. And I'm not afraid. As I said, 80 kicked my butt. I mean, if. If it could be wrong with me, it was wrong with me, you know? And I was thinking, okay, well, you know, I had cancer. I had lung cancer, and I had breast cancer. And I said, whatever it happens, I don't want to read. I don't want to be sitting. Well, I'll be sitting in hell because I don't think I'm going to heaven, but I don't want to be sitting in hell. And they said, she fought cancer for, you know, 20 years. I'm not fighting any disease. I'm learning to live with it, and I want the disease to live with me. So every morning that I wake up, me and cancer, we're in good shape. And I say, well, let's take a shower, go about our day. Let's do our life. Yeah. And one day we won't. And then that means that I'll be transitioned. I'll be in another place. And that's what, you know, I've talked about my grandmother, but that's what I think about. About grandmother, about Sister Althea, who was my eighth grade teacher. And I loved her so much. But I don't think they're not dead because they will never be forgotten for me. And I find myself, if I'm not careful, and sometimes even if I am talking to them or they're talking to me, you know, you're never alone when you have somebody like that around you. Yeah. Are you afraid of anything? Well, I'm very cautious around ostrich. When I was on, you know. Nikki, what are you talking about? Well, you're afraid of ostriches. Well, yeah. You ever been on safari? They are mean. You. No. They are mean. And that kick will kill you. Ask a lion. If you had to put a lion against an ostrich, the lion is gone. That's why you don't see lions. This is, like, not where I thought we were gonna go. Oh, no, I like it. I like it. I mean, it's real. That is your fear, the ostrich? Yes. You have to be very careful around them. I'm not afraid of lions because lions are an intelligent being that unless you're threatening them, they're not going to bother you. Right. But the only ostriches I've had in relation, you know, it's been unpleasant, and I'm lucky that they didn't get to me or they would have killed Thomas and my son and I on safari. You have to be careful around ostriches. People need to know that. That is a good and unexpected public service announcement that you have provided, Nikki Giovanni. Rounding out round two is one of my personal heroes, Jordi laforge, or as he's known to most people, levar Burton. Pick a card. One, two, three. I want to go one. You're feeling one. I am. Has your idea of success changed over time? Yes. I used to embody success unconsciously by how busy I felt and how busy I was. Now I feel that success is spending my time well. And what that means to me, what that looks like, is a balance of work and leisure, work and rest. Because I recognize at this stage in my life that although I have a lot of energy, there's a limit to it. And the older I get, the more important it is for me to create that balance of activity and recuperation. Yeah, my job. I've come to the conclusion that my job is to be LeVar Burton, and I love my job. And as it happens, my job requires a lot of energy going out. Right. It's energy output. And unless I recharge this battery, it's not good. It's interesting, though, You. You got so high so fast. Right. Like after Roots, you were up here. I was 19. Yeah, you're 19. I mean, you're still like a kid. And so I wonder if. If your definition of success, that epiphany of realizing you need balance, you gotta conserve, you can't just soar or you'll burn out. I wonder if that had. That was experiential. Yeah. I had to learn that because it's a long life, God willing. Exactly. And I think one of the gifts of Roots was that I had to come to terms with, you know what? I may never do anything as big or as important or as impactful as this. Okay. And I'm 19. So you just need to manage your expectations. No, seriously. About what's gonna happen next. Because clearly, A, you don't know, and B, chances are this may be the pinnacle. It just. It may be. So, yeah, it wasn't. There were many other. It turned out not to be right. And that's the miracle of my life, that it wasn't the only leg on my stool. I have these three jewels, I call them, in my career crown in Roots and Reading Rainbow and Star Trek. And I think part of the beauty of that journey for me is seeing that as a storyteller, I've been able to portray the Black experience in America, from our enslavement to the stars. And levar, the Reading Rainbow guy is absolutely in the middle of that continuum. And so to really plot the trajectory of black people through time and space in this roughly 20th, 21st century timeframe, that is very profound. Yeah, what a gift. Yeah, what a gift. What a gift. Who gets to do that? I do. This message comes from Midi Health Women in midlife face a healthcare desert, but MIDI is here to fill the gap. Offering expert care for perimenopause and menopause covered by insurance. Hot flashes, insomnia, brain fog, weight gain and moodiness don't have to be accepted as just another part of aging. MIDI clinicians understand how these symptoms can connect to menopause and prescribe a wide range of solutions. Book your visit today@joinmidi.com that's joinmidi.com support for NPR comes from Google. This year Google is celebrating the breakout searches of 2024 that captured the world's attention and shaped our year in ways we never saw coming. Watch the film at G Co YearInSearch. Google search on this message comes from Bluehost. Got great ideas but no idea how to build a website? Get Bluehost. Their AI builds your WordPress site in minutes and their built in tools optimize your growth. Don't wait. Visit bluehost.com now. This message comes from MIDI Health. Women in midlife face a healthcare desert, but MIDI is here to fill the gap. Offering expert care for perimenopause and menopause covered by insurance. Hot flashes, insomnia, brain fog, weight gain and moodiness don't have to be accepted as just another part of aging. MIDI clinicians understand how these symptoms can connect to menopause and prescribe a wide range of solutions. Book your visit today@join midi.com that's join midi.com this message comes from grammarly231 is the average number of apps used by many companies. This can drain employee focus. Grammarly can help. Grammarly's AI works in over 500,000 apps and websites, making it easy for your team to write clearly and on brand without disrupting workflow. Join 70,000 teams who save an average of $5,000 per employee per year using Grammarly. Go to Grammarly.com enterprise to learn more. Starting off round three, we've got a guy who threw throughout his storied career never turns in a bad performance, including his appearance on Wildcard. Ted Danson one, two or three? Three. Okay. Oh well. How often do you think about death. Oh, a lot. It's usually a version of, I mean, not literal death. But see, I flip my brain. I've trained it and I like it. And it may not be real, but my brain immediately tries to contextualize and spin myself away from fear. I don't like living in fear. And I have tons of it. You know, it comes up. I had so much fun doing a classic spy that I just finished for Netflix that halfway through it I went, I was going, oh, don't die, let me finish yourself. That's what you were saying. You know, I have my. Something hurts, you know, oh, does that mean I'm, you know, I'm incapable of finishing this, you know, but. And then I go, wait a minute. What you're really saying is you are so happy to be doing what you're doing. You're so joyful, having so much fun. Don't take it away from me. Life, you know, so instead of being fearful, just say, oh my God, thank you, thank you, thank you for this blessing that I have. Thank you for this job, thank you for whatever. Because then I can live in gratitude, which is more joyful. And I don't have to live in fear. I will contextualize my way out of fear as much as I possibly can. That's smart. There are times Covid. Covid was like a brick wall for a while. It was like, damn, I can't spin my way. I got no context. I got no context. So I guess I have another question related to this because you have talked publicly about suffering from plaque psoriasis for a long time. And I wonder if that experience made you think differently about your body and your own kind of physical fragility. Oh, definitely. And I could never look at myself in the mirror. I was born without a chest muscle. I was 6 foot at 13 and weighed 120 pounds. And then when I was 25, I got psoriasis. I was never able to go, oh, what a glorious creature you are in your Speedo. I never had that self affirming reflection in the mirror. So I think it. That made me, I think, self deprecating humor came out of that. My mother also was, you know, was very. She dealt wonderfully with the light things of life, joy and gratitude and excitement and all of those things. When things were dark, which life has. She had trouble with that. So there were things like phrases like pride goeth before a fall, you know, that kind of stuck in my head. And so it's like being prideful, even though I am. It was something that I tried not to be because I didn't want the fall. Even having a conversation with you today where I'm kind of forcing it to be on the higher level of the joy meter, because that's what I like to hear back. That's where you like to live. Yeah, I know that's where I like to live. But I am also very aware that I will step out of here and directly into a pile of karmic poo, because that's just the way life. The way life works. Mr. Ted, who thinks he's so wonderful dancing, you know, will get a reflection of the truth. But that's fun. That's funny. Our next guest is someone who I knew was going to say beautiful and meaningful things. She's the US Poet Laureate, after all. But I don't think anything could have prepared me for how profound this answer was. From Ada Limone. 1, 2 or 3? 3. 3. Oh. Have you ever had a premonition about something that came true? I feel like I have, and I'm trying to think of. There's many times where I've. I'm a big dreamer and my dream world is like, literally and figuratively. Yes, like literally sleeping dreams. And so I think that those moments can be slippery for me, whether they were premonitions or if they were dreams. But I feel like there's a few times one of them has been. I think that I knew that we weren't going to be able to conceive a child before we decided to give up on fertility treatments. I think I knew that, and I think it actually helped me to make some decisions to not move forward with any more of the treatments. And so I think I just knew. And it was also very helpful to me because it felt like as much as I just praised mystery and the unknowing, it felt like my body knew something, and it knew it was able to offer me another option and another future that I wasn't quite ready to do yet and to surrender to yet. Then when I was able to do it and listen to that premonition, it felt like a gift. And it felt like, okay, now what else is possible? Yeah, you know, because I think as women in our culture, the only possibility oftentimes offered to us is motherhood. That's right. And I felt very bound by that. And letting that go was really freeing. And I love my life and I love being child free. And I think that premonition offered that before I even knew it. Did you have a specific dream or it was just a knowing in your bones. I was floating in the Chesapeake Bay and I just had this moment of feeling. What if my body was only my body? And it felt really powerful? What if it didn't belong to anyone else and it was just mine? We never talk about it that way. I never felt it that way. All I wanted was to carry something in me. A baby. A child. And then it was so freeing. And I got out of the ocean. I remember thinking, that was beautiful. Like, what if I'm enough? What if just my body. What if these boundaries and these borders of my skin touching the water was enough? We don't say that. Women don't say that out loud. People don't say that. Sorry. I'm really weepy. I'm totally menopause and so I cry all the time. Me too. Oh, my God. Thank you for sharing that. Oh, yeah. It's an intimate thing and I appreciate you. Thank you for reminding me of it and wrapping up the whole kit and caboodle. A guest who confirmed my childhood fantasy of being a hand model. The musical and magical Jeff Goldblum. Last three cards. We're in the last three cards. Okay, three. So three. The last belief card. The last card. This is the end of the game. I'm getting that prize. Whatever it is. I don't care what it is. I'm getting it. Has your idea of what it means to be a good person changed over time? Well, I suppose that it's become clearer and more important. Well, although, sure. I mean, look, my parents were kind of, you know, hey, you should be good. So early on, being good, a good boy meant, you know, you know, being polite, which was probably good. Nothing wrong with that. And, you know, all of that and making A's in school. I then went on to realize later, after I, maybe they meant this, but I didn't get it from them until later that I thought being a good student, which is a good person, how much can you learn and use this lifetime for growth? It meant not just getting the grade or impressing anybody else, but really delving into what you were curious about, connecting with yourself, and then delving as deeply as you might, not just to get the grade. So that's good. But more I got clearer about how what I did could impact others and help others and contribution, the idea of contribution. And I love that. I'm not gonna bore you. It goes on for a little bit. But there's a George Bernard sh quote that I like a lot called this is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose. Considered by yourself as mighty, the being a force of nature instead of a feverish, selfish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy. I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community, and while I live, it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can. I want to be thoroughly used up when I die, for the harder I work, the more I live. I cherish life for its own sake. Life is no brief candle to me. It's a sort of splendid torch that I've got hold of for the moment, and I want to make it burn as brightly as possible before handing it off to future generations. That's the whole quote. I've memorized it. But that's yeah, that's pretty good. And that's not bad to keep in your pocket or up your sleeve and to live by till the end of your days when you can't do it any better and better and better and better and better. Pretty good, huh? Thanks so much for listening and if a few of those questions caught your ear, I'd recommend going back and listening to those entire episodes. This episode was produced by Taylor Hutchison and Lee Hale and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was engineered by Robert Rodriguez and our three theme song is by Ramtin Arablouei. Wildcard is produced by Romel Wood, Cher Vincent and Lee Hale. Our Executive producer is Beth Donovan. Thank you so much for supporting Wildcard. We love making this show and sharing it with you and there is so much good stuff coming your way in the new year. Until then, Happy New Year. I hope you have an excellent holiday. I will shuffle the deck and we'll see you next week. Foreign support for NPR and the following message come from Saatva Saatva Luxury mattresses are every bit as elegant as the most expensive brands, but because they're sold online, they're about half the price. Visit saatva.com NPR and save an additional $200. 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