Wild Card with Rachel Martin: "Zadie Smith lives more in the world than on the page"

Release Date: March 6, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Wild Card, Rachel Martin engages in an intimate and thought-provoking conversation with acclaimed author Zadie Smith. Celebrated for her insightful exploration of identity, race, and societal dynamics, Smith reflects on her personal journey, creative process, and the enduring legacy of her landmark novel, White Teeth. This episode delves deep into Smith's introspections, offering listeners a rare glimpse into the mind of one of contemporary literature's most influential voices.

Round 1: Memories

Exploring the Past to Understand the Present

1. Admiration for Her Teenage Self
   Timestamp: [03:24]
   When asked, "What do you admire about your teenage self?" Smith candidly responds, "I was very down on myself as a teenager... books were my refuge a lot of the time." She recounts feeling isolated and retreating into a world of fantasy through literature and movies. Despite her struggles, she acknowledges her early passion for books and curiosity about the world, stating, "I just thought, there's this amazing world... it was my job to observe them."

2. Appreciation of Her Hometown
   Timestamp: [05:33]
   Reflecting on her upbringing, Smith shares her deep connection to northwest London, her "home corner." She nostalgically describes living on the same street she was born on, emphasizing the neighborhood's beauty and the foundational support systems that fostered a sense of community. However, she also laments the effects of gentrification and the loss of multicultural diversity, noting, "There are corners of it. The poor have got unimaginably poorer... the young people growing up there... have no expectations of the things that I expected."

3. Daydreaming About Past Life Periods
   Timestamp: [09:14]
   When prompted to choose a period of her life she often daydreams about, Smith reminisces about her early 30s in New York City. She fondly recalls the vibrant evening activities and the thrill of meeting interesting people. "I had a lot of fun. I just met so many interesting people," she shares. She contrasts this with her current, more subdued existence, expressing a longing for the heightened experiences of that time.

Round 2: Insights

Delving into Emotions and Societal Reflections

1. Understanding of Regret
   Timestamp: [20:04]
   Smith identifies regret as the emotion she understands better than others. She explains, "I think people's lives are so profoundly shot through with regret... I am so filled with regret." She grapples with the finite nature of life, expressing a hunger to live it fully: "I'm so hungry for life that I could live it like 10 times." This introspection leads her to acknowledge her past selfishness, especially in dedicating extensive time to writing at the expense of other life experiences.

2. What Feels Unreachable: Justice
   Timestamp: [23:05]
   Addressing what feels unattainable to her, Smith speaks passionately about justice. She articulates a deep-seated political despair, stemming from witnessing societal shifts that erode the principles of equity and human dignity. "Justice... I have to call it just societies. Yeah," she asserts. Smith emphasizes the importance of maintaining a sacred regard for every human being, critiquing the notion of categorizing people as inherently "trash" and advocating for a more compassionate societal framework.

Round 3: Beliefs

Challenging and Reinforcing Personal Philosophies

1. Letting Go of Beliefs and the Concept of Smallness
   Timestamp: [27:31]
   Faced with the question, "What's a belief you chose to let go of?" Smith opts instead to discuss her contemplation of her "smallness in the universe." She reflects on the contingency of her existence, marveling at the sheer improbability of her being here: "I think of contingency all the time... my father was at the Normandy landings... my mother might never have come from Jamaica." This awareness of life's fragility and randomness reinforces her sense of connection to a universe far greater than herself.

2. Time as a Positive or Negative Force
   Timestamp: [30:55]
   Revisiting her obsession with time, Smith reiterates its dual nature in her life. "Time. It's a complete obsession," she declares, emphasizing the necessity of accepting time rather than battling against it. She critiques the societal obsession with longevity and productivity, advocating for a more balanced and accepting relationship with the passage of time. "Life is not just about getting things done. Life is for living," she affirms.

3. Defense Against Despair
   Timestamp: [35:27]
   When asked about her best defenses against despair, Smith lists a variety of sources of joy and resilience, including music, dancing, community involvement, and the innocence of children. She states, "One of the great antidotes to despair is being involved." Through active engagement and fostering connections, she finds strength to combat feelings of hopelessness, especially in the face of global crises like environmental collapse.

4. A Moment to Linger Over
   Timestamp: [38:31]
   Concluding the final question, Smith shares a deeply personal and joyous memory of falling in love with her husband on a train in Poland. "I remember that being a moment of extreme happiness," she reminisces. This moment stands as a testament to the profound personal connections that enrich her life, embodying the essence of love and companionship.

Reflections on White Teeth and Legacy

Timestamp: [13:33]

Throughout the conversation, Smith reflects on the 25th anniversary of her seminal work, White Teeth. She expresses complex emotions about aging and the passage of time, admitting a sense of melancholy associated with revisiting her earlier successes. "I'm going to be 50 this year... it's hard to answer to that 21-year-old girl who wrote that busy book," she confesses. Despite her ambivalence, Smith takes pride in the novel's enduring impact, particularly its resonance with younger generations. "Teenagers pick it up and read it. And to me that's exactly where it should be," she affirms.

Smith also touches upon the challenges of maintaining creative momentum in midlife, contemplating whether her creative energy might be waning. However, she remains committed to her craft, preparing to release a new book of essays aimed at restoring humanity and combating the dehumanizing trends she observes in society.

Conclusion

In this enriching episode of Wild Card, Zadie Smith offers a heartfelt and introspective exploration of her life's journey, creative endeavors, and philosophical musings. Through candid discussions and poignant reflections, listeners gain profound insights into the interplay between personal experiences and literary expression. Smith's honesty about her struggles with time, regret, and societal change underscores the depth of her human experience, making this conversation a must-listen for fans and newcomers alike.

For those interested in further exploring Zadie Smith's perspectives, be sure to check out Wildcard+, where Smith shares exclusive content about her recent self-discoveries.

Notable Quotes:

• "Time. It's a complete obsession." — Zadie Smith [00:47]
• "Everything about people interests me. I have this kind of deep affection." — Zadie Smith [17:30]
• "Justice... I have to call it just societies. Yeah." — Zadie Smith [23:14]
• "Life is not just about getting things done. Life is for living." — Zadie Smith [34:04]
• "One of the great antidotes to despair is being involved." — Zadie Smith [35:27]

Attributions:

All quotes and timestamps have been attributed to Zadie Smith and Rachel Martin as per the podcast transcript. The episode was produced by Summer Tamad, edited by Romel Wood, and mastered by Patrick Murray, with Rachel Martin as the host.