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- [00:01]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Hey, listeners, it's me, Julia. We're back for season three of Wiser Than Me. And we have so much more wisdom to share from the legendary older women who have joined me this season. I can't tell you the number of times when I'm having these conversations. I find myself scrambling for like a piece of paper or a napkin or whatever I can find on my desk to quickly jot down some nugget that my guest is sharing in our conversation. I mean, you've probably had the same experience, right? Well, guess what? Problem solved. We have created brand new Wiser Than Me notebooks with fun sayings on the COVID like get wise or wise up so you can keep all your newfound wisdom in one place. We just added these groovy hardcover notebooks to our merch shop. To buy yours, head over to wiser than me shop.com today. Lemonade I'm sure I've mentioned here on Wiser Than Me that I have a dog named George whom I love with all my heart. He is perfect. Well, he's got inflammatory bowel disease and he is allergic to everything and he barks way too much when somebody comes to the door. He barks so much, actually, that it makes my apple watch give me a decibel alert thing. But still, he is perfect. And coming for me, that's saying something. Because you know what? I don't have an ideal history with dogs at all. First, our childhood dog, Pippi, a miniature dachshund, Pippi was run over by a Volkswagen Bug. And I know that's kind of funny now, but believe me, at the time, it was a complete horror show. And then there's Jack. So Jack was a rescue cavalier King Charles spaniel that my first husband brought home unannounced one day when I was eight months pregnant, juggling a four year old working a thousand hours a day on Seinfeld and let's say, unprepared for the rigors of dog ownership. Yeah, I mean, my first husband was a nice man, but he brought Jack home with no crate, no food, no dog dishes, and no plan. And the first thing that Jack did was escape from the house and run as fast as he could east, like perhaps towards Mecca or Jerusalem. I have no idea. But Lord almighty, did he take off. He was so fast that my husband got on his bike and I got in a car and frantically chased after him until we finally caught him in the middle of traffic on Sunset Boulevard. Okay, so at this point, you can imagine I wasn't exactly thrilled with this first husband of mine, who I should mention is Brad hall, to whom I am surprisingly still married. So the next day, Brad thought it would be a very good idea to drive Jack the dog an hour and a half up a super curvy road to a little beach house where we were staying. And poor little Jack got very car sick. And then when he arrived, he proceeded to have projectile diarrhea all over the place. And I screamed so loud that Brad, in a panic, picked the poor dog up underneath his belly and tried to run him outside. And as he ran, the diarrhea sprayed like machine gun fire across all the walls of the beach cottage. And I really actually mean all the walls. And if I recall correctly, they also had sisal carpeting. So I'm just Put that in your mind, okay? Diarrhea, sisal carpeting, yeah. It will not come as a surprise that Brad left within the hour to take the dog back to the shelter, where he waited until little Jack was happily readopted by a family that was much more prepared to care for this poor creature, who I fear that we had probably traumatized completely and thoroughly. So many years later, I was convinced to get another dog, a black labradoodle we adopted from Australia, since you couldn't get labradoodles in California yet. And Brad did his research and figured out how to bring the dog over, which was very good, and it was all very organized. And also, I should say, in my dad's family, there's this tradition of naming female dogs after flowers. And since our son Henry was a giant fan of the Powerpuff Girls, the perfect intersection, There was Buttercup, and that's what we named her. And this is a dog that transformed me. I mean, I was. I still am very much a cat person, but now I'm a dog person, too. Buttercup was utterly sublime. And for the next 15 years of her tender little doggy life, I learned through her what it is to be truly devoted to a dog. I mean, of course, there are lots of reasons to love them. The unconditional love, the companionship, the connection. Plus, guess what? There's a science behind it. This is going to sound bullshitty, folks, but it's true. When people spend time with dogs, and especially when we look into a dog's eyes or cuddle with a dog or whatever, our oxytocin levels rise. We looked it up, and in humans, it plays a really important role in social bonding and in love and reproduction and childbirth and caring for children after you give birth to them. And here's the completely outrageous Part of all of this, when we make eye contact with our dogs, their oxytocin levels go up too. Isn't that amazing? So this all leads me to my mother in law, who is 96 years old. Talk about wiser than me. My God, she is one of the dearest, most selfless people I've ever known. She is the most selfless person I've ever known. Actually, she suffers now from serious frontal lobe dementia. But her personality, by the grace of God, or whoever is in charge of the universe, is utterly unchanged. And if you met her, your oxytocin levels would skyrocket because she's just that kind of a person. So we often take our dog George over to her little cottage to visit, and she has no functional memory at all. So every time she meets our George, for her, it's like meeting a new dog. And each time we have to remind her that our dog George is named after her husband whose name was George. And she laughs and she throws her head back. She thinks that is just so hilarious. And then she looks George straight in the eye and she ruffles his fur and she says in her inimitable way, she go, all the only dogs. And then George. And here's the amazing thing. He only does this with her, okay? He curls up right at her feet, and sometimes even on her feet. And he doesn't move until we have to go. He just becomes kindness. And how can it be that this little domesticated wolf creature can know exactly what he needs to do to bring a tiny bit of joy to his dearest granny? And isn't it so wonderful that there are sometimes unexpected places that love and warmth and joy can be found even when times seem a little dark? You know, as for all of us these days, they often do. So when George lies down at Granny's feet, it just. It really makes me weep. And as Shakespeare said, this is such a great line. Shakespeare says, how much better is it to weep at joy than to joy at weeping? So that's what I'm thinking about today. Sorry, I'm choked up. Animals, family, friends, warmth and joy. Let's focus on that. And that makes talking today with the endlessly joyful Isabella Rossellini just about perfect. Hi, I'm Julia Louis Dreyfus, and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. If legendary filmmaker Roberto Rossellini and iconic Oscar winning actress Ingrid Bergman had a child together, you might guess the kid would turn out to be either a brilliant director A phenomenal actor or strikingly beautiful? Well, you'd be spot on, because our guests today's all three of those things and more. The strikingly beautiful part. Her 14 year contract with Lancome made her the highest paid model of her time. The phenomenal actress part. She starred in classic cult films like David Lynch's Blue Velvet and Wild at Heart, in Marcel the Shell and her latest conclave, in which she is just sensational. She also steers her own projects, like directing the incredible green porno series that became a viral hit. I love it. Diving into the love lives of the animal kingdom, only Isabella could make snail sex both educational and utterly charming. She's truly one of a kind, constantly experimenting and pushing boundaries and always with a fearless authenticity that, even though she's been doing it for decades, is exciting and surprising and even shocking. And I just love this. In her 50s, as modeling work and acting roles disappeared, she went back to school to get her master's degree in animal behavior and conservation. At her graduation, she addressed her fellow students to say, I am here to tell you that if you ever encounter a dip in your life, pay no attention to the voice inside of you that judges you, that is negative, that fosters further anxiety. Just follow your curiosities. That's great for our show. And when Isabella Rossellini follows her curiosity, she goes big. Today, she owns and operates Mama Farm in Long island with her two children. They have goats, ducks, turkeys, over 150 chickens, and a small flock of rare breeds of sheep named after iconic female artists like Garbo, Callow and O'Keefe, who does that. The woman is living life entirely on her own terms, but the real legacy she's building is through her work in sustainability, community, and art. I am so happy to speak today with a twin sister, mother, grandmother, creative force, and chicken lover who is absolutely wiser than me, the marvelous Isabella Rossellini. Welcome, Isabella.
- [11:30]
Isabella Rossellini
Wow, Julia. This introduction is so. I moved. I'm about to cry.
- [11:36]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, cry, cry. We cry on this show, so go right ahead and weep away is what I have to say. So are you comfortable if I ask your real age?
- [11:45]
Isabella Rossellini
Yeah, 72. Not and a half, because when I was younger, I will say three and a half, four and a half. Now I took the half away, so it's 72. Not yet a half, but soon.
- [11:55]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
And how old do you feel, Isabella?
- [11:58]
Isabella Rossellini
Well, you know, it's funny, I never. I mean, inside, you don't change. I haven't changed since I was, like, maybe a teenager. I mean, teenager years. Are a little bit of torment.
- [12:08]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
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Isabella Rossellini
Once you hit 20s, doesn't change inside. The outside changes, but the inside stays the same.
- [12:15]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
So what do you think? You think you feel like you're in your 20s, then?
- [12:18]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes. I don't know. I never really think of age. You know, I know a lot of people talk about my age. I lost my job for age, I got my job back for age. So my life is very based on age. But I never really think about it so much because. Yeah, I don't know what to do with it. I mean, it just happens.
- [12:38]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah, exactly. Luckily, I mean, the alternative is not good.
- [12:42]
Isabella Rossellini
The alternative is not so good.
- [12:44]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
So what do you think is the best part about being your age? If you were to say, well, you.
- [12:49]
Isabella Rossellini
Know, yesterday I was. I saw an interview with Jodie Foster and she answered for me. She. I wish I could memorize what she said so I can repeat it exactly.
- [12:59]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Well, you can paraphrase. I'm curious.
- [13:01]
Isabella Rossellini
But I think that what happens is when you're young, you have so many things to prove that you're financially independent. Maybe there is, you know, you have to prove that, professor, they gave you a bad notice, that you were intelligent, capable, then you have good mother, you raise your children, good wife. And then as you become older, that preoccupation lifts and you just say, well, I am who I am with the limitation. I am that intelligent, this beautiful, this fat, this old, and you accept it. So there is a certain amount of serenity, and with that, a kind of a freedom, because you also say, wait a second, here's not much left. Let me do what I always wanted to do, and I didn't do it for whatever reason. Like, for me, was going back to study, because first of all, there wasn't animal behavior, it was a new science. So the university didn't offer it when I was in my college.
- [13:55]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Is it called ethology? Is that how you say ethology?
- [13:57]
Isabella Rossellini
Exactly, yes. And it wasn't offered at the time because it's relatively. There was biology, there was zoology, but not ethology.
- [14:07]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [14:08]
Isabella Rossellini
So that was one reason. And then I start modeling. I was working, so I thought, everybody's saying anthology. What the hell is that? You're working with chimpanzee. There's no way you make a living, which is true. So, you know, modeling and all that seemed more concrete. But then when you're old, you just say, well, I have my pension. You know what I'm going to study Anthology. There is a freedom that comes with it.
- [14:31]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah, freedom and Serenity. I love that. I love that.
- [14:35]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes.
- [14:35]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
It's funny, it reminds me, completely off topic, but kind of related back in the days when I was doing Seinfeld and there was something that Jerry Stiller, there was a line that he used to say. He used to scream. Used to scream serenity now. When he was looking to be calm, he would scream, serenity now. Which is not exactly, of course, what you're talking about, but it makes me laugh whenever I hear the word serenity, I think of it. So you have this farm, which is incredible, and you are a farmer, and as I mentioned, you have 150 chickens, thereabouts, and sheep and bees and the whole nine yards, kit and caboodle. What's your routine like on the farm? Can you describe it, Isabella?
- [15:19]
Isabella Rossellini
Well, you know, also I have employees because, of course, I somehow work as a model and as an actress came back. So I'm often traveling. I really more manage it. You know, the only thing I do because everybody's afraid is the bees. And they don't need to be attended every day, but every week or every two weeks, which allows me to travel, be an actress, come home, attend the bees.
- [15:41]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [15:42]
Isabella Rossellini
But, you know, feeding the chickens, I mean, what I try to. So I manage it. And the principle is that I can do things that I can do.
- [15:51]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [15:51]
Isabella Rossellini
Because if ever somebody's sick, I know how to feed them, how to clean the coop, how to water it, how to give a certain medicine if it is not too sophisticated and we need to call the vet. So I developed the farm with things that I could do directly.
- [16:08]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I see.
- [16:09]
Isabella Rossellini
But you know what's happening? What? I'm getting old. And some of the things that I decided 10 years ago, I can't do anymore.
- [16:16]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Like what? Like what?
- [16:17]
Isabella Rossellini
Like cleaning the coop. Because there's a lot of shoveling and my back hurts.
- [16:22]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, that's hard on your back. Right.
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Isabella Rossellini
But at least I know how to do it and what it takes. And I think that makes you a good manager because you have a sense of what it takes. Cause, you know, farming was so far from the way I grew up. Although it was not so far as it is in America. Because in Italy, where I grew up, farm is around. And the culinary tradition in Italy is so present that farmers market, we only ate food from the farmer's market. We never went to the supermarket. We went to the supermarket. If there was, I don't know, a pandemic, a war, I mean, that was the emergency. You never buy frozen food. It was every day fresh Fruit from the market. And so we had a relationship with farmers, we went to see their farms. So that was. It was a kind of different way of eating than here in America.
- [17:14]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Wait, can you just back up for a second? Because I need to hear about bees. I'm so curious. I'm tempted to have bees.
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Isabella Rossellini
Oh, I'm going to tell you the craziest thing about bees.
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Julia Louis-Dreyfus
What?
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Isabella Rossellini
Male bees. They have a grandfather but not a father. How do you like that?
- [17:31]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I like it and I'm curious. Continue, please.
- [17:35]
Isabella Rossellini
So their genetic is different than us. So in the bees there is only one female, the queen, that reproduces. So she's born, she flies off as a virgin in a nuptial flight, she gets mated with several male. She goes back and she starts a hive and she has a spermateca, like we have a discoteca or a bilbioteca, as we say in Italian, ateca. She has a spermateca. She collects the sperm. So she flies off in this nuptial flight for one day. She collects all the sperm that she will use throughout her life. Her life is generally about three years. And she would use the sperm to create daughters and no sperms to create her sons, the drones.
- [18:23]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
But wait, explain to me grandfather and not.
- [18:27]
Isabella Rossellini
So the drone has a grandfather because the queen has had a mother and a father. Yes, because you have a mother and a father to be a female.
- [18:36]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
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Isabella Rossellini
So the newly born son, called the drone, has a grandfather but doesn't have a father.
- [18:42]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, I understand.
- [18:43]
Isabella Rossellini
Because the queen doesn't use sperm to create the males. It's not a clone because it's a different sex, so it's a different genetics. And to me, dealing with those bees is like going to Mars, to another planet. They're nuts.
- [18:58]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Tell. So, like, when you go in there and you're doing your beekeeping work, what does that look like?
- [19:04]
Isabella Rossellini
So it depends on the season. So you want to make sure that. First of all, you want to make sure that the queen is laying eggs. And the Queen lays about 1500 eggs per day.
- [19:16]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Good God.
- [19:16]
Isabella Rossellini
The hive is, you know, 40, 50, 60,000 bees. So you want to make sure that there is eggs and that the queen is alive and well. You also check for disease. Varroa M is a mite that affects a lot of the bees. And so you have to put medicines and to try to treat them for it. There is beetles that might attack. Once I found a mouse inside the hive, they killed it. All the bees jumped on it and they stung it and it was dead, all swollen Dead from the sting. So they defend themselves, but you have to check, and then it depends on the season, you know, like now it's starting to be. There is not much food, for they've made the honey that it is the food that they will eat during the winter. But I stole it. I took it. I just left some. But I have. I'm feeding them in the winter, throughout the winter. I give them two type of food. One is a liquid food, one is not too cold. And then I switch to solid food, a patty, kind of a sugary patty. And then I stop around March when I see them coming and bringing pollen, because I know that now they can feed. And then I don't feed them anymore because the honey wouldn't be very good if I gave them this artificial, you know, this.
- [20:42]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, I see.
- [20:43]
Isabella Rossellini
You want the. You want the flowers, you want the.
- [20:46]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah. So you're supplementing their diet since you're taking away some of their own food source. I understand completely. Yeah. That's fascinating. That is absolutely fat. Have you been ever. Sorry to keep asking these questions, but.
- [20:57]
Isabella Rossellini
I'm stung so many times. Once I had to do a mammogram and I attended my bees in the morning and they attacked my hand. And I had a hand that was enormous, and I went for a mammogram. And the doctor kept saying, no, no, no. What's wrong with your hand? No, nothing, nothing. Doctor, I have bees. They just stung. Don't worry, I'm here for a mammogram. My mom died of breast cancer. Please do with a mammogram. No, no, no. We have to do an X ray of your hand. No, doctor, please. It's just. Ms. Bees.
- [21:26]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, my God. So most of the animals on your farm are for the most part, female, is that correct?
- [21:34]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes, they're female. Well, naturally, 90% of the bee's population are female.
- [21:38]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah, but what about the animals?
- [21:40]
Isabella Rossellini
Yeah, the chickens. So the chickens, they lay eggs. So I have a hard time killing animals. I'm not a vegetarian. I'm just a hypocrite because I just eat the food, but I cannot eat the animal that I've raised myself.
- [21:53]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I see.
- [21:54]
Isabella Rossellini
And I have a really hard time killing them. I tried to learn how to do it because I thought it was part of my duty, but it's just horrible. So another way of managing the farm is that we don't kill any animals. Plus, there is no good how you call it now. You speak languages, and so sometimes word comes in a different language. Abattoir, French, matatorio. Italian slaughterhouse, English. Finally it came. There is no good slaughterhouse in Long Island. And one of the stressiest moment for the animal is to be transported to the slaughterhouse. So the slaughterhouse can be humane or not. I mean, they say. I mean, I don't know, but I'm sure there is various degree. But the transportation, it's very stressful. So I decided not to have any meat. So we can have eggs. Therefore, I need only female, because the chicken, they lay eggs. They don't need a rooster. The eggs is like our menstruation, but only they do it every day. So they have an egg every day. You don't need a rooster for having eggs. I have sheep and goats. At the beginning I had only female males, sometimes fight. But now I have two males that are castrated and they are angels.
- [23:17]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Did you have to have them castrated or they came that way?
- [23:20]
Isabella Rossellini
They came that way.
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Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I see. That's the way they got entrance.
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Isabella Rossellini
My neighbor had them and so I met them when they were little lambs just born and she was going to eat them and I said, well, if you don't eat them, I like to have them because I just saw them and she castrated them for me.
- [23:39]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
That is hilarious. You know, your son describes you as going from the big city life to a really different lifestyle at the farm. It's almost as if she becomes a different person. So I want to know about that. I want to know what's the difference between big city Isabella and. And farm Isabella. How would you describe.
- [24:00]
Isabella Rossellini
Well, you know, the way of dressing changes completely in the city. You have to dress up a bit, you have to be clean in the country. You know, shoes are different, clothes are, you know, old. Sometimes I might have a beautiful designer jacket, but old so has been promoted to being a farm jacket.
- [24:26]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
But I mean, is it a different mental state for you?
- [24:30]
Isabella Rossellini
A little bit. A little bit. But I'm a lot in the country, so either work, I'm very seldom in the city. First of all, if you are from New York, you were born in New York.
- [24:42]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I was born in New York, yeah.
- [24:44]
Isabella Rossellini
It's difficult to leave New York because nu love makes you believe that he's the center of the world. And if you leave it, you're going to become peripheral to culture or peripheral. So at the beginning I was going to the city much more often, going to see the shows and little by little I'm doing this less. So I go to the city and now I become like a farmer. I say so much traffic, it smells so bad, so much noise. I complain.
- [25:14]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
You've become that person.
- [25:15]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes, I became that person.
- [25:17]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
But all of your family has moved, I believe. Yes. So you've got everybody. Your daughter, your son on the farm.
- [25:26]
Isabella Rossellini
And my three grandchildren. I have three grandchildren.
- [25:28]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Three grandchildren. How old are they?
- [25:30]
Isabella Rossellini
The smallest one is seven months. And then there is a three year old and a seven year old.
- [25:35]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, how divine. It seems very sort of matriarchal. Is it?
- [25:40]
Isabella Rossellini
It is matriarchal. It's funny because people, we have this bed and breakfast. I'm talking to you from this bed and breakfast.
- [25:46]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [25:47]
Isabella Rossellini
And often when guests come, they say there is a very strong female energy. And strangely enough, you know, we're booked for conferences or seminars and often there are things related to women, whether it's menopause or lactation, birth. Somehow that's how we got the name Mama Farm. From the beginning, this land had a female energy. Not only it was me starting. And my daughter is very involved in creating all these programs. So it was Mama Farm because it was Mama's farm. Yes, but also the chickens were all female because we don't need a rooster. We just selected four, the eggs, so female bees. 90% of the bees female. And then so many mothers came with their children to show them, oh, this is the season of the carrots. This is the season of spinach. Look at the flowers. And so it became naturally Mama Farm. And still. And it's very. Has a very feminine energy. They call it Mother Nature.
- [26:51]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
You say Mother Nature, I say feminine instinct. Yeah, Feminine instinct.
- [26:55]
Isabella Rossellini
Yeah, right. Well, I think so. You know, I was wondering, I forgot if I read it somewhere. There is new anthropology book. Anthropology is the study of men. Yes. They are emphasizing the women role. For example, they say, you know, our ancestor took the vertical position. Unfortunately, it became very, very painful to give birth because our hips had to be smaller and the birth canal became more difficult, narrow. So it was difficult to have a baby come out. And that's why it's so painful. But this new women anthropologist said, yes, but that means that that could have evolved only if there was collaboration, altruism, teamwork, because a woman needs another woman to help her deliver the baby, pull it out of her, take care of the baby while she's recovering. There was already an enormous mortality and they would have all died if there wasn't collaboration and altruism.
- [28:06]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, fascinating.
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Isabella Rossellini
It's fascinating, isn't it?
- [28:09]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes, it's fascinating.
- [28:10]
Isabella Rossellini
It's fascinating. And this is how the new study of women, point of view, that they don't look at anthropology like competition and who is strongest. And maybe it was. Of course, our culture skews our studies skews our questions. So now there are these women asking this question. One of the series that I've done as a director, you know, I make these short, funny films.
- [28:31]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes. Which I love by the love.
- [28:33]
Isabella Rossellini
Thank you. So every. All my films are called Green Porno, but actually they are called Other Things. But the first title was Green Porno. It was so powerful that no matter what I do, they say she does green porno.
- [28:44]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [28:44]
Isabella Rossellini
So one of the Green Porno series was called Mamas, and it was about maternal instinct. And it was a series of fantastic ethologists, biologists, women that looked into maternal instinct. We all think we know what it is, but then when you really look into it, he's never been studied from a scientist's point of view.
- [29:04]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, my God. Right?
- [29:06]
Isabella Rossellini
And so they've done all these studies to see, is it true that mothers are ready to die for their children? And the answer is more complicated. Some mothers eat the babies, some babies eat the mothers. Anything goes.
- [29:26]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
That's so funny. That's an amazing thing to consider, studying maternal instinct. God, I have to think about that.
- [29:36]
Isabella Rossellini
There is an incredible movement of women in science that are asking different questions that were never asked before. But I think this idea that women, mammals, not female, but because they are sometimes male, that take care, you know, the ostrich is the male that takes care of the baby. The seahorse is the father. They become pregnant.
- [29:58]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [29:59]
Isabella Rossellini
But I think in mammals, because we have to breastfeed our babies, we also look at them. We have an opportunity to observe them closely than the father. And we also become evolved to be more attentive to little indication, to little things that are not verbal. And then I think we are very good at farming or animal behavioral studies.
- [30:26]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
That makes so much sense. Don't go anywhere. My conversation with Isabella Rossellini continues after this quick break. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's take a moment to express some gratitude. We here at Wiser Than Me would love to thank all of the incredible women we had on this show so far and all of the women out there, our friends, moms, and mentors, who are constantly finding ways to inspire us. Life can get overwhelming. And whether it's friends, family, or even a therapist, it's important to recognize those who support us and to remember to thank ourselves along the way, too. Remember, just doing your best is no small feat. Therapy helps us stay connected to that sense of gratitude. Even when life feels chaotic, it creates space to reflect on what's going well, builds habits that that nurture appreciation, and reframes challenges with a new perspective. If you've ever thought about starting therapy, now might be the perfect time. BetterHelp offers therapy entirely online, making it convenient, flexible and designed to fit your schedule. Just answer a few quick questions to get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time without extra costs. Therapy isn't just for those navigating big challenges. It can also help with everyday things like building positive coping skills and setting boundaries so you feel empowered to show up as the best version of yourself. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com wiser today to get 10% off your first month. That's better. H L P.com wiser this show is sponsored by Liquid IV. Between traveling, hosting folks, coordinating big family gatherings and keeping everyone sane, it's nonstop action from now through the new year. So lovely listeners, are you taking care of yourself? Are you staying hydrated? Liquid IVs hydration multiplier and their new sugar free Hydration Multiplier delivers way more than water alone. Each packet is packed with eight vitamins and nutrients, three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink and zero artificial sweeteners. Whether you're on a long flight, preparing for a holiday party or recovering from hosting the entire family, Liquid IV makes it easy to stay hydrated wherever the holidays take you you the flavors are a real highlight. There's something for everyone. Check out acai berry, lemon, lime or pina colada from their Hydration Multiplier line. And if you're looking to cut back on sugar, the sugar free options like raspberry melon, white peach and green grape are just as refreshing. It tastes like real fruit, which makes staying hydrated feel like a treat. Plus, Liquid IV is non GMO vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free so you can feel good about what you're putting into your body. Tear pour live more one stick plus 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone. Stay hydrated through the holidays with Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to liquidiv.com and use code wiser at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop Better Hydration today using promo code wiser@liquidiv.com this show is sponsored by Macy's Thanksgiving morning wouldn't be complete without the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. This year marks the 96th annual parade live from New York City. There's something so special about waking up to those huge, colorful balloons making their way through the city streets. It's like a little bit of magic filling up your living room. And it's the perfect start to the holiday before all the cooking and festivities get underway. This year's parade is even more exciting with Minnie Mouse making her debut as a brand new balloon floating down the streets of New York York alongside all the other iconic characters. And it's not just about the balloons and floats. There are incredible Broadway performances, marching bands from across the country, and of course, Santa himself closing it out to kick off the holiday season. So grab your family, cozy up and make the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade part of your Thanksgiving tradition. To learn more about the parade and what's in store this year, visit macy's.com parade I love the story from your memoir. You had a childhood game you used to play with your mom. You would ask each other which animal you would want to be. And your mother said she'd like to be a horse. And you said, I'm afraid I would just be a sheep. I belong so strongly to a herd. Would you still say that same answer, Isabel?
- [35:15]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes, I do. I think so. You know, I think that I have a sense of community. I mean, my farm is very central to our community.
- [35:22]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [35:23]
Isabella Rossellini
My children and my grandchildren live around us. My daughter went to, she studied at the London School of Economics. So she went to London to visit some friends. And when she said, you know, my mom has dinner with us every night and she lives in a house next to us, they said, is it a problem? Because I think in the Anglo Saxon world, it's in ethnic or something, but yes, I am a sheep.
- [35:47]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
You're a sheep. Are you gonna. Do you see yourself aging in place on your farm and being here? How divine.
- [35:54]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes. I speak to so many friends who say, you know, I'm concerned about what am I gonna do when I'm old? Who's going to take care of me, how am I going to make it? And yes, I have no problem. I mean, wheelchair, just wheel me in front of a coop, then take me to the pasture of the sheep. I think it's going to be easy to take care of me when I'm gathered.
- [36:17]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
That's very nice. You're very lucky. So you had a great dad, Roberto Rossellini. He was obviously a legendary film director, but you described him as being a seahorse. You said that if he could have given birth to You. He would have.
- [36:31]
Isabella Rossellini
You will always say to me, I'm so jealous that women can get pregnant, I want to breastfeed you. Why can't I do it? It was. I remember once he was doing an interview and he asked me to sit and wait until the interview was over in a hotel lobby. And the journalist asked him, what kind of a father are you? And he said, I'm a Jewish mother.
- [36:53]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
That's adorable.
- [36:55]
Isabella Rossellini
And he was a Jewish mother. The stereotype of a Jewish mother. Yes. He would have liked very much to be pregnant and give birth and breastfeed us.
- [37:05]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
And so was he, like, your primary source, do you think, of emotional support when you were young?
- [37:12]
Isabella Rossellini
Both my father and my mother. My father, when I became a teenager, became a very Italian father, very jealous, very worried about my virginity and a boyfriend. So when I was a teenager, I became closer to my mom. But when I was little, I think I hover more around my dad, who loves animals, was very adventurous. I think I continued to live my life very closely to how my father lived life.
- [37:41]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
It sounds like even though he was protective of you and maybe defensive of you when you became a teenager or a young woman, it sounds like he was very supportive of you as a woman. Is that correct?
- [37:54]
Isabella Rossellini
I think so. I think, you know, I don't know. I lost my dad when I was 25 years old, but I think he would love my green porno and my work at the farm, but he would be uncomfortable with me as an actress.
- [38:08]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, really?
- [38:09]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes. I think he was very worried that acting was. You have to be chosen. You always have to please, and therefore you are in not. You could be easily put in a role that it is not active, but reactive.
- [38:25]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I see.
- [38:26]
Isabella Rossellini
And I think that's. That's what he feared.
- [38:29]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Probably. He envisioned you having more control over your life, perhaps.
- [38:33]
Isabella Rossellini
Exactly, exactly.
- [38:35]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [38:35]
Isabella Rossellini
And I did. I did have control over my life. But I think when I. I became an actress after he died, because I didn't want to be yelled at.
- [38:47]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Well, it's funny you say that, because I see that you said that after the death of your dad. You said, if I were to divide my life into before Christ and after Christ, it would be third. 1977, when he passed away and I lost my dad. Yeah, I lost him eight years ago. It's interesting how the ground shifts, doesn't it, when you lose a parent?
- [39:10]
Isabella Rossellini
Incredible. Incredible.
- [39:12]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Can you talk about that shift and how you recover?
- [39:16]
Isabella Rossellini
Exactly. It's the ground shift or the ground collapsed. I felt that when I had my parents that There was an anchor that there was a continuity in the past. And I just be in the future. And all of a sudden, when I didn't have them and they died four years apart, there was this void in my back and I, you know, and I felt very precarious, very untethered, perhaps. Yes, yes, very. It was fright. I got scared to live life without them. I was living life. I mean, I was 25. My mother died when I was 30. But still, I think not having them left a very big void also. I mean, I wonder, you know, my father and mother were exceptional people. So I'm sure that everybody misses their parents, but sometimes I wonder if I have missed them more also because they were exceptional human beings.
- [40:14]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah. And also people knew them. They're known. So it's a. It's a. That's a. That adds another layer to this that maybe is complicated or maybe it's comforting.
- [40:25]
Isabella Rossellini
Maybe it maybe a layer to remember that. Because I think of them every day and I wonder if I think of them every day because of my love to my parents or because I'm reminded. Because, you know, when I give an interview, they ask me about my parents or I ran into people, so I don't know.
- [40:41]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah. Speaking of fame, you said when you were little, you didn't really understand your mom's fame.
- [40:48]
Isabella Rossellini
No.
- [40:49]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
And that's such an interesting idea to consider because when my kids were little and I was having some fame, I know they didn't understand it when people would come over and say they needed an autograph or something, it was off putting. It was an intrusion.
- [41:11]
Isabella Rossellini
So I remember once my son, we were at the beach and my son was running up and down the beach and would go up to people and say, isabella Rossellini is my mom. And at the time I was a little. So I got so embarrassed, I called him aside, I said, roberto, why did you say that? He said, I don't know. They seem to like it. People smile. Oh, really?
- [41:35]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
That's hilarious. When my son was really little and at the time I was. Because I was on Seinfeld and we were on a lot of magazine covers, et cetera. So he was really sort of used to seeing me on the front page of something. And we were walking by. We were walking by a bookstore, and the front window of the bookstore had a bunch of books all about Margaret Thatcher. There was some book that had just come out about her life, biography of. And it was her face on the front. And he looked, and he goes, look, Mommy, that's you. Any Woman on the COVID of anything.
- [42:14]
Isabella Rossellini
Any woman, was you. Because also you're an actress. So you can have a wig. You can change. My daughter, when she was also six or seven, maybe small, she went to. They were teaching her to remember her last name and her address just in case she got lost. She could tell a policeman, my name is Eletre Wiedemann. This is my address. And the policeman. So they were teaching all the children, remember your last name, remember your address. And then they were asked. They were interrogating the children to see if they understood it. So they went to my daughter and they said, okay, Eletra. Her name is Eletre. Eletra, you are lost at the airport. What do you do? And she said, well, I'll sit under my mom's poster. And she said, what would that do? She said, haven't you noticed in the streets, in the airport, photos of mama and daddies everywhere? So if someone get lost, you just sit there. She hadn't even understood what was my job. She thought it was photos of all the mommies and daddies so you can get lost. You go underneath that poster.
- [43:17]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
That is so dear. That is so adorable. Your mom wrote a bunch of diaries, did she not, your mother?
- [43:27]
Isabella Rossellini
Diaries? Yes. She wrote a diary when she was young. And then I think when she became very known in Hollywood, she stopped writing it because she was afraid that somebody might steal it and publish it. And so she stopped stop writing the diaries. But we do have her diaries from, you know, age 12, 14, when her father gave her a little book to keep a diary all the way till. Until she was maybe 36 or 37.
- [43:55]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, wow. And so did you learn a lot about your mother reading these diaries? Did you?
- [44:01]
Isabella Rossellini
So I couldn't read them because she wrote them in Swedish and I couldn't read Swedish.
- [44:05]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, hilarious.
- [44:06]
Isabella Rossellini
But it was really interesting because the first diary opens by saying, my dad gave me this diary and I'm really happy to keep a record of when I'll be an actress and I will become very known. That's the first thing she wrote, really. So I was. I thought, this is extraordinary because we gave all. My mom's archive is at the Wesleyan University that has an incredible film archive.
- [44:35]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes, my son went there.
- [44:36]
Isabella Rossellini
That's Janine Basinger. The great Janine Basinger.
- [44:41]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Janine Basinger. It was his teacher.
- [44:44]
Isabella Rossellini
Fantastic archivist and film preservation. Yeah.
- [44:48]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [44:48]
Isabella Rossellini
So it's there. And so Janine had the diary translated. So we read the most interesting passages, but this was opening. And then a friend of mine Gave me the answer. He said, oh, I hope. I think a lot of diaries start like this. Just her mother. It happened. But a lot of people's diaries. Oh, I see. I'm going to be famous. I'm going to make. That made sense. I thought, oh, my mom, look at this.
- [45:15]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, I see. But it just so happens she did.
- [45:18]
Isabella Rossellini
But she did, yeah.
- [45:19]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes, of course. So I know that I wanted to talk about a time of your life, because I thought this would be interesting from sort of a. Well, from a life experience point of view. 19 1982-83, a lot happened for you, if I'm getting this correctly. Your mother passed away, you got divorced, you got your first Vogue cover, and you had a daughter.
- [45:46]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes. Yeah, it's true. I've never thought about that. Yeah, that happened all in between. 82 and 83. Big changes.
- [45:53]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
So wait a minute. How did you get through that period of time? Did you have someone? Who did you look to for guidance? Was it hard to have a baby not having your mother around?
- [46:06]
Isabella Rossellini
It was so hard. Yes. No, I didn't have it, of course. Yes, it was hard. And that's why I tried to be not only very present when my children had their baby. In March, I was offered to do a series, but that's where my third grandson was born. And I said no. My accountant was berserk. She said, you're going to make so much money. I said, yes, but more important to be here for my son. No, but you can be a grandmother later on. I said, no, the grandmother is here the first day the baby's born. The first child. The first child is the hardest. Wasn't it for you, too? It's such a surprise that it's such a shock.
- [46:46]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
It's a shock to have a person who you're responsible for and who takes precedence over you.
- [46:53]
Isabella Rossellini
Exactly.
- [46:54]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
There's an ego shift that is, shall we say, disarming, which is an understanding.
- [47:02]
Isabella Rossellini
And then that everything you do, it becomes so complicated, you know, you say, oh, I forgot to buy the meal. Let me go out. No, you can't go out. The baby's sleeping. There's no babysitter. You cannot leave the baby alone at home. Everything becomes so difficult.
- [47:17]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
So difficult. It's a new way to frame your entire life. It's funny that you said that about your accountant and getting a job, because I remember I was offered a job during the summer and this is when I was going to be taking. I only had one child at the time, but they had this thing when they would Start nursery school. They called it separation. So you would bring your kid to nursery school and then you would be there for the first two weeks and so he becomes. Finds his way and then you slowly move out of nursery school. But I knew that if I took this job I would miss that I wouldn't be able to do it. And so I didn't take the job. And I remember my agent said to me, this is the worst decision of your career.
- [48:03]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes. Yeah. Well, I was told the same many times. But it is the best, you know, because there are other jobs that come and there is nothing. There is a quality of life. And the quality of life comes not only with the jobs, comes also with the family and the relationships.
- [48:19]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [48:20]
Isabella Rossellini
I also think. I don't know if you agree with me. I also think that all of women of. I mean, I'm older than you, but. And I'm wiser. When you say wiser than me, I say, oh, my goodness. Now why am I going to say, say that he's white.
- [48:33]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Now you own it. You own it, Isabella.
- [48:37]
Isabella Rossellini
But I think that, you know, my generation, your generation, younger generation, we had career, we moved into, became producers, became director, you know, field that men dominated. But the job is still organized according to this division where there is always a woman at home. Taking of the family. Oh, yes, that is the next step. I think that the feminine world has to enter into the world of jobs, films, everything. I mean, just look at the tax I can take as a tax break. If I go to lunch with you to discuss this interview, we can make.
- [49:21]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
An interview, which we must, I insist we do.
- [49:24]
Isabella Rossellini
But it's a tax deduction. You can take it off your taxes. Yes, but if I have a babysitter, I can't take a off.
- [49:30]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, fascinating.
- [49:32]
Isabella Rossellini
It continues to be a problem that has to be resolved somehow.
- [49:36]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Well, we need more women in government. Let's start with that.
- [49:39]
Isabella Rossellini
You know, talking about women in government. I think that's how I got my job back at Lancome.
- [49:44]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, yes, talk about that. Please tell the story of the first stint at Lancome and then the second and that evolution, because it's an amazing story.
- [49:55]
Isabella Rossellini
So I got this beautiful contract with this extraordinary cosmetic line, Lancome, and I worked for it for 14 years as the only model and extremely successful. And in the midst of this enormous success, I got news that my contract was not going to be renewed. And I was very surprised.
- [50:15]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
But now, wait a minute. How many years were you under contract for Lancome at that time?
- [50:20]
Isabella Rossellini
14 years. And then I turned 40 or 41, and I will start rumor that I wouldn't, you know, should I should be. I will not renew my contract. So I asked to talk to the top guy at the time.
- [50:36]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [50:36]
Isabella Rossellini
And he explained to me, gave me a rationale. He said, women dream to remain young. Advertisement is about the dream. You are going to be 42 soon, and at 42, you cannot represent that dream. That's why we have to find somebody younger. We're, you know, we're very grateful for your work. They were very gracious. But you're not going to work with us anymore. I asked. I mean, they had all the marketing tools, you know. So when I asked my friends, do you like to stay young? Nobody said, yes. Nobody said, no. I want to be elegant. I want to be playful. I want to be sophisticated. I don't want to stay young. But some said, oh, yeah, it'd be nice to stay full 23 forever. But it was really a minority. But I didn't have the instrument they had. So 23 years go by, and I receive a call from a woman saying, I would like to hire you back. And I said, what about the dream of remaining young forever? Because I'm 23 years older. Can I come to Paris? Can you pay my airplane to come to Paris? Because I want to meet with you. Because I don't understand it. So I arrived. I was very anxious. I arrived at the restaurant before everybody else. And then I was waiting, and I see a motorcycle.
- [51:49]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Hold on a second. Why were you anxious? I'm curious.
- [51:52]
Isabella Rossellini
Well, I was so lost, you know, 23 years of. And now they want me back. I didn't understand. I said, if you want somebody older because you want to fight ages, get Helen Mirren, get Meryl Streep. If you get me back, that story, that was controversial because when they let me go, there was controversy. Some women got very offended. It's going to come back. I don't know how to protect you from this story. What am I going to say to the phrase, yes, no, we insist. He should be you. Okay? So I said, well, I want to come and really flush it out, understand it. And when I arrive at the restaurant earlier, I was sitting there waiting, and I see a motorcycle and a woman dressed in black leather coming out of the motorcycle, taking the cask off, blonde hair flowing like Brigitte Bardot. She came and she said, hello, my name is Francoise Liman. I'm the new CEO of Lancome. I said, said, no. And now I understand you are a woman. And she said, yes, my intent is to be more inclusive, to define beauty not as a certain age, a certain race, a certain weight, by trying to really give instrument to everybody, to embellish, to play, to be creative. And that's how I define beauty. And so I got back.
- [53:18]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Wow.
- [53:19]
Isabella Rossellini
And I've been now with them for 10 years.
- [53:21]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, my God.
- [53:23]
Isabella Rossellini
Isn't that amazing?
- [53:24]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
It's an amazing story.
- [53:26]
Isabella Rossellini
But I think that the sensibility that she had is that she understood that you can reach out to women that sometimes feel discarded, feel that have no voice. Cause we all want to be elegant. We all want to be creative. We all want. Of course, I'm changing my makeup based on that principle.
- [53:45]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Okay, explain that.
- [53:48]
Isabella Rossellini
You know what? I've noticed that I used my makeup as hiding my age. I would put things under my bags, under my eyes, and I'd put a little bit of rouge on my cheek. And then I said, wait a second, I don't represent that. And I saw, incredibly enough, at Lancome, there is a lovely man who uses makeup, but he doesn't use it to look younger. He doesn't use it to look like a woman. He uses it as a decoration. It uses as a creative expression. And I said, I'm going to do your makeup. Tell me, what are you using? And now I am putting a little orange under my eyebrows. I always used very little makeup all my life. I mean, sometime I use a lot of makeup because I'm an actress or a model, but in my real life, I use little makeup, but now I'm using it as a touch of color, not as trying to be younger or trying to hide something that I think is wrong, like a pimple.
- [54:53]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Okay, but wait a minute. Explain. So I just want to understand the. A little bit of orange sort of on your eyelid, underneath your eyebrow.
- [55:02]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes, right under the eyebrow.
- [55:04]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
But what does that orange do? I don't understand that because I'm going to try this. As soon as this podcast is over, I'm going to the bathroom to do so.
- [55:11]
Isabella Rossellini
Do you know that generally you put an eyeliner and then you put some color in your eyelid, and then in the. Right underneath the bone, you put a little darker, so a little shade, so your eyes seem more deep, like when you are young and you don't have the eyelid drooping. But if you do the makeup just a color underneath your eyebrow, it still looks like makeup and it looks interesting. It looks a little bit punk, a little bit rebel, and it is a little bit Rebel, but a 72 year old rebel. Nothing to be afraid of.
- [55:50]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [55:51]
Isabella Rossellini
Grandma rebellion.
- [55:53]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
And of course, lipstick. Right?
- [55:55]
Isabella Rossellini
Lipstick. Lipstick I've always used because the makeup artists, all of them that worked with the best, they all gave me the same answer. They said, choose a feature in your face that you like about yourself and make it bigger. And everybody said that I had good lips. So I made just red lipstick.
- [56:15]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Done.
- [56:16]
Isabella Rossellini
Done.
- [56:16]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Okay. I love it. So we're getting tidbits. It's time for another break. There's much more wisdom from Isabella Rossellini when we when the weather turns cooler, it's time to embrace everything cozy and Quince has just what you need. From luxurious cashmere to soft loungewear, Quince offers high quality essentials at prices that will shock you. The quince 100% merino wool scarf coat checks all the boxes. Soft, warm and so stylish you'll wonder how you ever live with without it. The attached scarf and delicate embroidery gives it a bespoke artisanal feel, while the oversized fit gives warmth and comfort. You can really wrap up in. It's the perfect fall staple item for everything you're doing, whether that's the farmer's market, brunch with friends or just walking the dog. And where else can you get 100% merino wool for these prices? Here's the best part. Quince cuts out the middleman and works directly with the best factories so you can get a gorgeous high quality wardrobe for a frat fraction of what you'd pay elsewhere. No markups, no gimmicks, just pure timeless comfort that doesn't break the bank. Get cozy in Quince's high quality wardrobe essentials go to quince.com wiser for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E dot com wiser to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com W. You know, one of the things no one tells you about being an adult is how complicated saving and investing can feel. Suddenly you're supposed to know how the stock market works. Yeah, forget it. No thanks. We don't teach basic investing skills in schools and we expect everyone to be able to figure it out on their own. That's why Acorns was introduced. Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing for your future. You don't need a lot of money or expertise to with Acorns. In fact, you can get started with just your spare change. Acorns recommends an expert built portfolio that fits you and your money goals, then automatically invests your money for you. No spreadsheets, no digging around for stock tips, just smart automatic investing while you live your life. So if you've ever thought I should really start saving for the future, but after this next episode, Acorns is for you. Their mission of making investing accessible has resonated with so many people who previously thought getting smart with money to just wasn't for them. Head to acorns.com wiser or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future. Today. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures@acorns.com wiser we all have fitness goals, but it's another thing to stick to them until we see progress. Peloton makes it easy to keep up with your goals no matter where you are or how your schedule looks. With a huge variety of classes, Peloton fits every stage and every moment. Whether you're welcoming a new chapter or just carving out a few moments for yourself. Whatever era you're in, holiday hustle, running season, or a new wellness journey, Peloton is ready. With the workouts and encouragement to keep you going. You can try barre, Pilates, yoga, running, meditation, and so much more to discover what energizes you. Each class type is there to help you stay motivated and keep moving. Need flexibility? Peloton's All Access membership means you can work out at home on your bike, tread or row, or log into the app to squeeze in a workout wherever you happen to be, whether you're at a park, in a hotel, or even cheering on your kids from the sidelines. And if you're balancing a packed schedule, Peloton has you covered. Classes come in all lengths whether whether you have just 10 minutes or you're ready to dive into a 45 minute session, there's always something ready on demand or live whenever you need it. Find your push Find your power with peloton@onepeleton.com Wiser Than Me Season 3 is available ad free when you subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You'll also get access to exclusive interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now. In the Apple Podcast, were you aware of the power of your beauty when you were younger and then you were not?
- [61:15]
Isabella Rossellini
No. First of all, I was chubby. Then I had scoliosis, which is, you know, they took me to the hospital There was deformity department. Oh, wow.
- [61:27]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Wow.
- [61:28]
Isabella Rossellini
It was clear what I had. The scoliosis is a very common deformity of the spine, only that mine was very severe. So in my life, I had to have two major operations. I have 17 vertebrae that are screwed together, basically.
- [61:44]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Do you have pain in your back?
- [61:46]
Isabella Rossellini
I do. I do have pain in the back. I mean, I have strategies. I swim, I do exercise, massages. I have to have a regime. Yes. To keep me from.
- [61:58]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
But, Isabella, once you got past that and you became a young woman and you were, of course, very beautiful, were you aware of the power of your beauty then? And then can you talk about how, if you were aware of that power, how that power has evolved as you've gotten older?
- [62:17]
Isabella Rossellini
There was an element of great surprise. You know, I always felt that my forte as a model was that I was a very good accomplice with photographers, and they understood what they wanted, and it was almost like creating a character for films. In fact, I didn't want to act because my mom was so famous, Ingrid Bergman. And so I was intimidated. I said my father didn't want me to be an actress. So when I became a model, it was great because it was something that I was. I didn't realize that it was something that was. That I grew up with. I thought it was a complete different job. And then until Richard Avedon one day said, isabella, the models are a little bit like silent movie star, because I'm not photographing a beautiful nose, a beautiful mouth. I photograph emotion. You have to show me emotion. And that's what I photograph.
- [63:08]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I see.
- [63:08]
Isabella Rossellini
And then that's why you should be an actress. He said, and you know, as a model, you always worried. You always think the thing would last a couple of years, and then what do you do next? And so I was thinking, what do I do next? And it was Avedon that encouraged me to be an actress. And I tried. He said, you just have to add work. So I added words with an accent. Yes, there was a problem, but now it isn't a problem. I'm working with Pixar. I'm working myself now. It's an asset.
- [63:38]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
So, Isabella, moving on to another topic, there was this really incredible interview where you mentioned that there hasn't been a piece of art that accurately reflects your sexual life in your 60s. And I would love to talk about the relationship with your body as you age, you know, your relationship to intimacy and sex.
- [64:02]
Isabella Rossellini
So I don't have sexuality. You know, I haven't had a boyfriend in 25 years. But for a brief moment during COVID how lucky I was. I didn't have a boyfriend for years. And then just before COVID as we were on the lockdown, I met a man who I liked a lot, who then left. Yeah, after Covid. So the COVID lockdown for me was fantastic.
- [64:27]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
It was a. It was a sexual dalliance of sorts.
- [64:31]
Isabella Rossellini
Exactly. So how it happened, I had my children and I adopted my son as a single mom because I was getting older and I come from a family of a lot of brothers and sisters, so I wanted my daughter to have that. And I was getting old. I didn't have a man then or a man with whom I wanted to have children. And so I adopted my son Robert. And I still had boyfriend going out, but it was difficult, you know, and the day never ended. You know, it started at 5 in the morning to get the children ready to school, and then dinner and then bath and reading the story. And then the boyfriend was another dinner, another. Then he wants to make love. The day never ended. So I was going to the therapist and I said, how do I handle this? You know, I get up at five, it's still one o'clock, I'm still doing something for somebody. And she said, but have you ever tried not to have a boyfriend? And I had not. I always had somebody, you know, like if it wasn't a boyfriend, still, somebody went out trying to figure out if he could become a boyfriend and all that. She said, try. And since, as you know, I am very adventurous, I said, that's right. I'm going to try to be single for six months.
- [65:51]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I love that. That's an adventure. That's good.
- [65:53]
Isabella Rossellini
Yeah, it was. Let me try. I never tried. It was fantastic. So it was fantastic. It was so serene. There was no up and down. You know, I slept. It was. I could take care of my children without worrying that somebody else needed attention and somebody else needed attention or that there was tension among them because when he's not the father, they don't like it so much, the boyfriend. So the six months became a year, two years, three years. And then I thought, well, you know, it. It'll happen. And I spoke to other friends. Oh, yes. I haven't been married in three years. Okay. Any. So I never made the choice. But 25 years went by without a boyfriend. But for that very brief Covid parenthesis, luckily, otherwise I would have been locked up by myself.
- [66:47]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
But here's the thing. Are you missing that now? Do you want to have another boyfriend or are you Happy to be back.
- [66:52]
Isabella Rossellini
To being single, I think because I have a big community, I don't need a man. I mean, if I fall in love, yes, but otherwise a lot of friend of mine say, oh, you know, can come to dinner. I have somebody who could be a companion. But I don't need a companion. I have plenty of friends, I have grandchildren, I have my community here in living in the village, it does help to be single. It helps to live in a farm because you're part of a community. In the city would be harder because going to parties without a husband or a companion is the worst. I cannot enter a party by myself. I hate it to go to a party.
- [67:37]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
What do you do? Do you take a friend with you?
- [67:39]
Isabella Rossellini
Well, but they don't want to come because most of the time it's boring or tumaccia or, you know, red carpet. So they are shoveled in the corner waiting for me, and so they don't want to come. None of my family wants to come. And then sometimes other friends don't want to come. And so I don't go to parties. But I never really like them, so I don't miss them. Sometimes I miss the companionship, you know, like, oh, let's go see this movie together, you know, coming out and discussing it. But it's not something so big, the missing that would make me forced to get.
- [68:16]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
That requires a change.
- [68:18]
Isabella Rossellini
Yeah.
- [68:18]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
So let's talk about reinvention, actually, because, well, for example, your performance in Death becomes her, which was so wonderful, really so wonderful. And we're talking, of course, about eternal youth in that movie. And in your memoir, you wrote something so beautiful, which was, I may not like myself old, but I like myself ancient. And I think I know what that means to me, but what does that mean to you?
- [68:48]
Isabella Rossellini
Well, you know, I can give an example come to mind. I don't like, you know, that, you know, my neck, you know, I'm just looking at my dog's neck. I like how much I like it. And I look at my neck and I don't like it. And I say, why don't I? Why do I like my dog's wrinkles? And I don't like my wrinkles. But so getting old has this aspect. But I'm ancient and I love it. I had a wet nurse. I was born in Italy. After the war, there was no formula. My mom was 38, I think, when she had me and my twin sister. So she didn't have enough milk for two. And I was raised by a wet nurse. So that's ancient. And I love things in me that are ancient that I can connect to something that existed in the past but long time ago and they don't exist anymore.
- [69:47]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Hey, let's talk about having a twin sister. I have sisters in law who are twins. Although they're identical twins. And you are a fraternal twin. Do you feel like a psychic connection to your sister, to your twin sister?
- [70:01]
Isabella Rossellini
No, we don't feel a psychic connection. But I'm definitely closer to her than my other seven brothers and sisters.
- [70:09]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Seven? Yes.
- [70:10]
Isabella Rossellini
We're big families. Some of them are half brothers and. But there is a bond. But I also fought with her the most too. So it's the most bonded but also the most fights.
- [70:23]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Do you get to see her a lot?
- [70:24]
Isabella Rossellini
Oh, a lot, yes. Yes, we see each other a lot. We almost speak on the phone every day.
- [70:30]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, gosh, that's so lovely to have that connection with someone. A sister. A sibling. Okay, Isabella, going back to animal behavior now, I can't remember exactly where I read this, but you were talking about something called cryptic female choice. And I am so dying to hear more about this. Can you tell us about that?
- [70:55]
Isabella Rossellini
Right. Isn't that a fantastic name? Cryptic female choices again is the point of view maybe of the masculine point of view that looked at courtship.
- [71:06]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
But this is a scientific term.
- [71:08]
Isabella Rossellini
It's a scientific term, yes. They looked at courtship as a way. For example, I don't know, birds dancing until the female is ready.
- [71:17]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Succumbs.
- [71:18]
Isabella Rossellini
Succumbs, exactly. Look at the word you've used. Succumb. Because we are so used to thinking that he's the male that does something spectacular and the female gives in to it.
- [71:31]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [71:32]
Isabella Rossellini
Cryptic female choices instead is what the female might do to keep control and not succumbing to a male. For example, my chicken. You tell me if this isn't fantastic. And I'm slightly envious of them. If a rooster jumps on them and they don't want to be mated, they can spit the sperms out like we would spit our saliva. Isn't that great?
- [72:07]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
It's phenomenal.
- [72:08]
Isabella Rossellini
Phenomenal. Ducks. Ducks, they have a vagina like a labyrinth.
- [72:16]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Crazy. This is already crazy.
- [72:18]
Isabella Rossellini
They have a vagina like a labyrinth that has many canals. One canal leads to the eggs, the others don't. So the penis penetrates to female duck. Cryptic female choices. She sends them to a dead end because she has several canal. So she doesn't care. She lets the duck. She wants to be the father of the baby. In the right canal that leads her to the eggs. Cryptic female choices. You don't give up power.
- [72:51]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I mean, it is too good.
- [72:53]
Isabella Rossellini
It is too good. And those are all new studies that are coming to the surface. And a lot of them, a lot of the great questions are asked by female science scientist.
- [73:09]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Cryptic female choices might want to be the title of a book you write. I think there's something to it that is so spectacular. I mean, you could. Yeah. I mean, chapter one could be choosing to be single as a cryptic female choice.
- [73:28]
Isabella Rossellini
Absolutely.
- [73:30]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Okay, so a couple of quick, short questions I ask at the end I'm going to throw at you. Isabelle Bella. Is there something you're looking forward to?
- [73:40]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes. I mean, life, you know, life is so interesting and it's full of interesting things. I just signed up for a course in ornithology to learn more about birds.
- [73:51]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, fantastic. Is there something you would go back and tell yourself at 21?
- [73:56]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes. Be a direct film director earlier.
- [74:00]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, when did you first become a film director?
- [74:04]
Isabella Rossellini
55, 60.
- [74:06]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, I see.
- [74:07]
Isabella Rossellini
Yeah. I should have done it earlier and my film about animals, you know. Yeah. I. I think they. I think they're good. They're fun.
- [74:16]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [74:17]
Isabella Rossellini
I should have done more of it. I should have cultivated that voice more well, but. But sometimes you need a lot of time to.
- [74:28]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
To get to a certain point.
- [74:30]
Isabella Rossellini
To get to a certain point. Yeah.
- [74:31]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Is there something you wish you'd spent less time on, Isabella in your life?
- [74:36]
Isabella Rossellini
Yeah, that's a very good question. Well, maybe having boyfriends, frankly, maybe I should have been single more frequently. Here and there. Just be with the one I really loved.
- [74:49]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Okay. Is there something that you would like me to know about aging?
- [74:57]
Isabella Rossellini
Well, I'm not worried about you. I have the feeling that I'm not worried about you. I say you laugh because laughter, I mean. I mean, laughter helps a lot, isn't it? I'm not worried. I think you would find it very wonderful. I found it very wonderful. People don't believe it, but it really is one.
- [75:21]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Well, I mean, you know, I'm aging and I have found it to be wonderful thus far.
- [75:26]
Isabella Rossellini
Me too. That fire is really wonderful.
- [75:28]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [75:29]
Isabella Rossellini
The only thing that I'm a little worried is if I get sick with pain.
- [75:34]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [75:34]
Isabella Rossellini
I had pain with my back. Severe pain occasionally, and that's very hard. But short of pain, everything else. Sometime I wondered if I could. I sometimes lost the ability to walk twice in my life, and I had to relearn. And it was scary. But, you know, it was also interesting, I have to say.
- [75:59]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
What was interesting about It.
- [76:00]
Isabella Rossellini
It was interesting, the contact with other people that live like that, discovering the solution, discovering a whole community, I think, you know, I volunteered for the Guide dog Foundation, and mostly we raise dog for people that can see. And people say, how do you separate from the dog after you raise them? Because you're part of a community. And that community is so clever and so full of life and so challenged and yet so capable, so strong. They are an inspiration. So my dog is my connection to them.
- [76:40]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Oh, that's beautiful. I love that. Community, baby. It's the name. It's. It's community and laughter.
- [76:48]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes. Community and laughter is a very good combination.
- [76:51]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah, it really is. It really is. Well, thank you so much for taking time. What a delightful conversation.
- [76:58]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes. Now, are you going to talk to your mom?
- [77:00]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah. What should I say to her?
- [77:02]
Isabella Rossellini
Well, say hi. Ask her if community and laughter has been her secret.
- [77:06]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Okay, I will. She's 90.
- [77:08]
Isabella Rossellini
90.
- [77:09]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
90. Yeah, I'm going to ask her. Yeah. I'm going to hang up with you and I'm going to call her on Zoom, and hopefully she'll be able to turn the Zoom on and we'll be good to go.
- [77:21]
Isabella Rossellini
Oh, great. She has problem with Zoom. I have problem with Zoom, too.
- [77:24]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah, who doesn't? I know who doesn't. But anyway, thank you so much. It's been an utter delight. I would like to come and stay at your bed and breakfast someday.
- [77:31]
Isabella Rossellini
Come anytime, Anytime.
- [77:33]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Okay. I think I might. You can show me the bees and all of it.
- [77:38]
Isabella Rossellini
Yes, absolutely. Come anytime.
- [77:41]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Okay. Well, lots of love and many thanks. You're very generous.
- [77:45]
Isabella Rossellini
Thank you so much.
- [77:50]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Wow. Well, that was all just so mind blowing. I learned so much in this conversation with Isabella. I gotta get my mom on the Zoom right away to tell her all about it. Hi, Mommy.
- [78:04]
Judith Bowles
Oh, hi, love.
- [78:06]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
So I just talked to Isabella Rossellini, and first of all, she knows the podcast, so she goes, are you going to call your mom now? And I said, yes. And she goes, I will tell her I said hi. Isn't that fun?
- [78:19]
Judith Bowles
People seem to love the little stuff. We say yes.
- [78:23]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Gosh, you're going to love listening to this episode. She's such a delightful human being and so giggly, and she's got a lot of joy in her life.
- [78:35]
Judith Bowles
We can't get too much of that.
- [78:36]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
No, but she has a farm in Long Island. She has a bed and breakfast there. It would be fun to go. And she has a lot of animals. I mean, for real, that would be fun to do, to spend a day, a night there. And look around the farm and figure things out. Oh, dear. I think I'm concocting an adventure. Mommy, I may have to take you away to go there.
- [78:58]
Judith Bowles
I will do that.
- [78:59]
Isabella Rossellini
Oh.
- [78:59]
Judith Bowles
Oh, my God.
- [79:00]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
And then maybe we could tour the farm. And she has a farmer who does incredible things there. And she's got the sheep and the chickens. Oh, wait. So this is what I'm gonna tell you. So there's a scientific term, and it's called cryptic female choices. And it has to do with certain animals in the animal kingdom who, when they are mated with, have the ability to control. Control certain aspects of mating. For example, if a chicken is mated by a rooster and doesn't like the rooster, the chicken's vagina can spat out the sperm. Wow.
- [79:43]
Judith Bowles
But is that a conscious thing or is that something that our body does? I sort of think with it's so easy to personify the animals that they like.
- [79:52]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [79:52]
Judith Bowles
But there's a wonderful phrase in a Mary Oliver poem. You should love the soft animal of your body and whatever happens to open us up to be fertile, to be whatever. I just wonder whether or not that sort of happens with animals under certain circumstances. And they don't, like. Think, oh, I like it. I don't like it. It's just something that happens to them, to their bodies, to permit the opening.
- [80:18]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
It's funny you say that Mary Oliver quote, because she was talking about how she likes the sauce. Soft wrinkles of her dog who's old, but she doesn't like her neck. And she aims to like her neck the way she likes her dog's wrinkles. It's sort of the same idea.
- [80:36]
Judith Bowles
Oh, how wonderful that she has found this.
- [80:41]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I know she's had such a varied, interesting life.
- [80:44]
Judith Bowles
You know, so many things were, you know, that were. Were open to her to do. And I'm sure that some ways, you know, and she had such a youth of so much attention for her looks and for being who she was. But the fact that she was able to take that when it was offered and be, I'm sure, so grateful for it, but then to find something that she could make be herself, something that she already loved, but that she could then create a body out of, that's fantastic.
- [81:16]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
And by the way, this is not the only thing she does. She's also a director. She continues to act. She's in this movie that's called Conclave. So she's doing a lot of things. But she wanted me to ask you if you agree with her. I think, which is the key. She Thinks to aging. I guess she might say happily or aging. Well, as simplistic as this sounds is laughter and community. And I'm sure you agree with that.
- [81:42]
Judith Bowles
Absolutely.
- [81:43]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Absolutely. And I think you've got both of those things going for you, Mommy, don't you?
- [81:49]
Judith Bowles
I do, but community is a. It comes and goes, you know? In other words, we all talk about communities so that we have a group that we think about. But it has to be nurtured.
- [81:59]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes, it has to be nurtured, and so does laughter.
- [82:04]
Judith Bowles
But you also have to look for it sometimes because it's not right at your doorstep every morning. Wouldn't that be nice if it were? You just open the door and you.
- [82:14]
Isabella Rossellini
Go, ah.
- [82:18]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Ah, look at the morning.
- [82:23]
Judith Bowles
That's the funniest thing I've ever, ever seen.
- [82:29]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Okay, okay, Mommy, I think. I think it's time for us to sign off.
- [82:33]
Judith Bowles
Okay, well, sign off and be well.
- [82:37]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Love you, my mama.
- [82:38]
Isabella Rossellini
Love you.
- [82:38]
Judith Bowles
Love you, love you.
- [82:39]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Okay, so I realized right after I had hung up here on the Zoom with my mom that I had missed an opportun. So I got her back on the zoom. Hi, mama. Oh.
- [82:51]
Judith Bowles
Oh, hi, love.
- [82:52]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
The reason that I wanted to get you back on Zoom was because after we had our little conversation, I thought, oh, my God, I should have you read that Mary Oliver poem. I think that would be so nice for everybody to hear. Can you read it?
- [83:07]
Judith Bowles
I'd be happy to read it. Yes. And especially a good poem for now.
- [83:11]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah, it's especially a good poem for now. So why don't you go ahead ahead and. And read it and we can all just relax and listen to that.
- [83:20]
Judith Bowles
Wild geese. You do not have to be good. You do not have to walk on your knees for a hundred miles through the desert repenting. You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves. Tell me about despair. Yours, and I will tell you mine. Meanwhile, the world goes on. Meanwhile, the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain are moving across the landscapes over the prairies and the deep trees, the mountains and the rivers. Meanwhile, the wild geese, high in the clean blue air, are heading home again. Whoever you are, no matter how lonely the world offers itself to, your imagination calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting, over and over, announcing your place in the family of things.
- [84:39]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Well, that's a beauty. Yeah, it makes me cry. I love it.
- [84:45]
Judith Bowles
I know. I love that poem, too. Ah.
- [84:47]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Okay, mom, that was just a complete tonic to hear it read by you.
- [84:53]
Judith Bowles
The thing that just kills me is. It is. Tell me about despair. Yours and mine.
- [84:59]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [85:01]
Judith Bowles
Yeah. It's good. Poem. It's good.
- [85:03]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
It's a good one. It's a good one.
- [85:05]
Judith Bowles
Okay, well, love to everybody and keep heart.
- [85:08]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes.
- [85:09]
Judith Bowles
And have a little fun if you can.
- [85:11]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yep.
- [85:12]
Judith Bowles
Love to you guys.
- [85:13]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Okay. Love you, mommy. Soft animal. My mommy.
- [85:17]
Isabella Rossellini
Yeah, too. Oh. Oh, my God. Yeah.
- [85:19]
Judith Bowles
Love you.
- [85:21]
Isabella Rossellini
Okay.
- [85:21]
Judith Bowles
Love you. Love you.
- [85:32]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
There's more Wiser Than Me With Lemonada Premium on Apple, you can listen to every episode of season three A.D. free. Subscribers also get access to exclusive bonus interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now by clicking on the Wiser Than Me podcast logo in the Apple Podcasts app and then hitting the subscribe button. Make sure you're following Wiser Than Me on social media. We're on Instagram and TikTok at wiser than Me and we're on Facebook at Wiser Than Me podcast. Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonada Media, created and hosted by me, Julia Louis Dreyfus. This show is produced by Chrissy Peace, Jamilah zara Williams, Alex McOen, and Oja Lopez. Brad hall is a consulting producer, Rachel Neal is VP of New content, and our SVP of weekly content and production is Steve Nelson. Executive producers are Paula Kaplan, Stephanie Whittles, Wax, Jessica Cordova, Kramer, and me. The show is mixed by Joni Vince Evans with engineering help from James Farber, and our music was written by Henry hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Will Schlegel and of course, my mother, Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser Than Wherever you get your podcasts and if there's a wise old lady in your life, listen up. Hey, Wiser Than Me listeners, We want to hear from you. By just answering a few questions on our listener survey, you can share feedback about show content you'd like to see in the future and help us think about what brands would serve you best and each even better. Once you've completed the survey, you can enter for a chance to win a $100 Visa gift card. The survey is short and sweet and will help us play ads you don't.
- [87:22]
Judith Bowles
Want to skip and keep bringing you content you love.
- [87:26]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Just go to lemonadamedia.com survey lemonadamedia.com survey.