Julia Gets Wise with Catherine O’Hara

Summary

Wiser Than Me™ Season 3 Episode Summary: Julia Gets Wise with Catherine O’Hara

Podcast Information:

• Title: Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus
• Host: Lemonada Media
• Episode: Julia Gets Wise with Catherine O’Hara
• Release Date: October 30, 2024

Description: In this heartfelt and humorous episode of Season 3, Julia Louis-Dreyfus engages in an insightful conversation with the legendary Catherine O’Hara. They delve into their illustrious careers in comedy, personal anecdotes, and the wisdom gained over the years. The episode offers listeners a blend of laughter, reflection, and invaluable life lessons from two iconic figures in the entertainment industry.

---

1. Career Beginnings and Second City

Julia and Catherine begin by reminiscing about their early days in comedy, both starting at Second City—Julia in Chicago and Catherine in Toronto. They discuss the influence of Second City on their comedic styles and the camaraderie among their peers.

Julia Louis-Dreyfus [00:57]: "In my career, I've done mostly comedy. And my fondest memories are working with other actors to perfect a bit to like mine a moment for the most comedy possible."

Catherine O’Hara [25:13]: "I started on stage at Second City Toronto. I followed her [Julia] there and got to understudy her."

2. Transition to SCTV and Challenges Faced

Catherine shares her transition from Second City to SCTV, highlighting the differences between Canadian and American comedy scenes. She reflects on the challenges they faced when SNL producers brought SCTV talents to New York, leading to mixed receptions and the eventual struggles they encountered.

Catherine O’Hara [09:17]: "We worked on perfecting little things in scenes, aiming for maximum laughs. But when we didn't get the laughs, we certainly remembered that moment."

Julia Louis-Dreyfus [29:43]: "It was a real asshole move [referring to SNL's reception of SCTV alumni]."

3. Lessons from Improv and Life

The conversation shifts to the foundational lessons they learned from improvisation, emphasizing the importance of saying "yes" in improv and how it parallels life’s unpredictability.

Catherine O’Hara [10:30]: "There are so many ways to move forward confidently and positively, even in the face of great challenges."

Julia Louis-Dreyfus [11:18]: "You always say yes in improv, which is so applicable to life off the stage."

4. Personal Stories: Vatican Tour and Papal Meeting

Catherine recounts a memorable experience from her wedding tour of the Vatican, where a humorous mishap with priests led to an unexpected reprimand. Julia shares her own unique experience of meeting the Pope through an invitation orchestrated by Stephen Colbert, highlighting the blend of comedy and spirituality.

Catherine O’Hara [13:33]: "We laughed while pretending to take items from the Pope's closet, but when another priest arrived, our guide got yelled at."

Julia Louis-Dreyfus [15:33]: "I met the Pope, shook his hand, and told him, 'God bless you.'"

5. Work with Christopher Guest and Improvisation

Discussing their collaborations with Christopher Guest, Catherine elaborates on the improvisational nature of his films, where no dialogue is written, fostering an environment of creative freedom and spontaneous humor.

Catherine O’Hara [50:22]: "Chris Guest would never repeat a thought between takes. As an improviser, he's so free-thinking."

Julia Louis-Dreyfus [51:20]: "On Veep, Armando Iannucci would encourage us to forget the script and improvise, which was both fun and terrifying."

6. Family and Parenting in the Entertainment Industry

Both hosts delve into their roles as mothers within the entertainment industry. Catherine shares how her sons have followed in her footsteps, working in set construction and dressing, while Julia discusses balancing her career with parenting during the filming of "Seinfeld."

Catherine O’Hara [53:45]: "Both of our boys are working in this industry. It's remarkable to witness."

Julia Louis-Dreyfus [54:19]: "With my older son, Henry, I brought him to work with a nursery on set, which was challenging but rewarding."

7. Insights on Aging and Relationships

The duo explores the nuances of aging, emphasizing clarity of vision and the evolving dynamics in relationships. They humorously touch upon societal perceptions of aging in the entertainment industry and the importance of maintaining humor and faith in long-term relationships.

Catherine O’Hara [46:08]: "That's what's wrong with aging. You start seeing things a little too clearly."

Julia Louis-Dreyfus [60:14]: "Making each other laugh is a very sexy thing."

8. Reflections on Marriage and Humor

They reflect on their marriages, highlighting the role of humor and mutual support as cornerstones of lasting relationships. Catherine speaks about her husband Beau Welch, their shared laughter, and the resilience they've built together.

Catherine O’Hara [60:19]: "My husband and I really laugh a lot every day."

Julia Louis-Dreyfus [60:18]: "A sense of humor is aligned with kindness and is essential for strong relationships."

9. Navigating Professional and Personal Challenges

Julia and Catherine candidly discuss the hurdles they've faced professionally, including gender disparities in pay and representation. Catherine shares her experiences of pitching ideas and the inherent challenges women face in being heard and valued in creative environments.

Julia Louis-Dreyfus [46:35]: "Have you ever thought that women often get paid less because of shitty representation?"

Catherine O’Hara [40:27]: "I always start most of my ideas with 'sorry,' reflecting a lingering effect of not being heard earlier in my career."

10. Final Thoughts and Rapid Fire Questions

In the concluding segment, Julia and Catherine engage in rapid-fire questions, sharing personal preferences and amusing anecdotes that underscore their enduring friendship and mutual respect.

Catherine O’Hara [62:38]: "Is there something you’re looking forward to? Seeing my sons. Yes."

Catherine O’Hara [63:06]: "Maybe I spent less time sleeping."

Notable Quotes:

• Catherine O’Hara [35:07]: "It's crazy. We would rework stuff and over and over, you know, we never gave up on a good idea that we thought was a good idea."

• Julia Louis-Dreyfus [34:08]: "I draw on being live on SNL performing live. That schedule, which was grueling."

• Catherine O’Hara [61:56]: "I wish I had seven kids of my own."

---

Conclusion: This episode of Wiser Than Me™ with Catherine O’Hara offers an intimate glimpse into the lives of two comedic legends. Through shared experiences, personal stories, and profound insights, Julia and Catherine illuminate the importance of resilience, humor, and meaningful relationships in both personal and professional realms. Listeners are left inspired by their journeys and the wisdom they impart.

Transcript

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Hi there, it's me, Julia Louis Dreyfus. We're back for season three of Wiser Than Me. We're ready to bring you even more wisdom from the magnificent old women I have had the pleasure of talking to this season. And get a load of this. We've added some fun new items to our Wiser Than Me merch collection. Along with our classic tote bag and kitchen tea towel. We're introducing a new Wiser Than Me branded hardcover notebook and an exclusive partnership with Lingua Franca, a New York City based luxury and sustainable clothing brand. You got to check out the gorgeous hand embroidered sweatshirts, cashmere sweaters for you and your dog with wiser than me phrases. Yeah, cashmere for your dog. I did say that. Browse the whole collection and start shopping today by visiting wiserthanmeeshop.com.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Lemonade.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So in my career, I've done mostly comedy. And my fondest memories are working with other actors to perfect a bit to like mine a moment for the most comedy possible. Honestly, I don't think about kudos or awards or reviews or paychecks or anything like that. And it's actually, it's not even the laughs. It's rehearsing to get the laughs. There's a scene in Aveep episode, for example, when I'm telling Tony, Tony Hale, who plays Gary, that the president is resigning. So my character, Selina Meyer, the veep, is going to become president. And we're in a bathroom, a dingy bathroom, and in the scene we're kind of laughing and crying and then he gets a bloody nose and oh, my God. We worked on that scene forever. It was exhausting, but over and over and over, looking for, like, little things we could bring to the scene, you know, like things that I sort of, in fact, pull out of a bag within the scene. I'm pulling stuff out of a bag. And when I watch it now, that's what I remember. The work, the joyful teamwork that Tony and I did in rehearsal and while shooting, you know, not. Not the laughs per se, but. But when you don't get the laughs. Oh, my goodness. You certainly do remember that. When I was just getting started, I was part of the Practical Theater Company in Chicago. And our show, which was called the Practical theater company's golden 50th anniversary jubilee, which was a joke, of course, because the company was new, it hadn't been around very long. It was a giant hit, and I'd never been in a giant hit before. And it was incredibly exciting. We were the Toast of the Town. The show was selling out, and the laughs we were getting were incredible. It was the culmination of a huge amount of work and joy. Exactly what I was just talking about. So the producers of SNL came to see the show, and they loved it, and they hired all of us to come to New York and be a part of SNL Saturday Night Live. Of course, we go to New York. And the SNL producers really wanted the current cast and writers to see what they had seen in Chicago. So they rented this very cool Off Broadway house, and they brought in a big, enthusiastic audience, and they had us recreate the whole hit show. Oh, wait a minute. Sorry. No, they didn't do that at all. Uh, they had us, four complete and total unknowns perform the first act of the show. Oh, my God. In the SNL office under fluorescent lights in the middle of the day in front of 20 very cynical, unfriendly SNL cast members and writers who already hated us because a bunch of their best friends had just been fired to make room for us. Okay, we never had a chance. Sketches that had killed in Chicago died a terrible, terrible death that day. It was excruciating. And that's when I learned what a flop sweat really is. I mean, I can feel it now as I'm recounting this. And I think that humiliation influenced our whole SNL experience for the next couple of years, to tell you the truth. I mean, if I could do it all over again. Well, I can't do it all over again, can I? I mean, you live, you learn, and whatever. I've learned a lot since that cringy day in a carpeted office on the 17th floor of 30 Rock. But one of the most enduring lessons that I have learned on Wiser Than Me is that there are so many ways to move forward confidently and positively, even in the face of great challenges. And it reminds me of one of my favorite improv lessons yet. Yes. And that is the great Viola Spolin's first rule of improv. You always say yes. And in an improv. So, like, for example, if somebody comes into a scene and says, hi, I'm an astronaut, you don't say, no, you're not an astronaut. You say, yes. And I'm so looking forward to hearing your astronaut poetry tonight or whatever. Yes. And that is so applicable to life off the stage as well as on it. You know, really, honestly, all of life is really a great big improv in the end. You know, relationships and work situations and, I mean, it's all about Collaborating and paying attention and accepting what others bring to the party and building on that and of course, making big choices. It's just a great thing. And paradoxically, another great thing I've learned from the women on this show is that no is a complete sentence. Weird how that too is, in the end, a positive, empowering kind of truth. Two sides of a wiser than me coin. And I have to say, speaking of wiser than me, I really, really want you to know how happy I am to have you nice audience, people listening to and enjoying these conversations, saying yes, and to our show. I'm so grateful. I really am. So thank you, dear listeners. And yes, and right back at you for real. How apropos then that today we are talking to the inestimable improv queen, Katherine O'Hara. I'm Julia Louis Dreyfus, and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. There's nothing like improvisation. I love it. In my experience, the best improvisers are pretty much always the best listeners. That's the key to any great performance, comedy or drama listening. Our guest today is one of the finest listeners in the business, and to me that means one of the finest actors. Catherine O'Hara and I share similar origin stories. She started on stage at Second City Toronto. I started on stage at Second City Chicago. Although it was a touring company. She went on to Second City TV. I went on to SNL. She's been with her husband 36 years, I've been married 37, and we both have two perfect boys. We've known each other for decades through mutual friends, but we've never actually gotten to work together, God damn it. And I vow to change that. Catherine's TV career took off alongside fellow SCTV comedy legends John Candy, Eugene Levy, Joe Flaherty, Andrea Martin, Dave Thomas and Harold Ramis. This was pretty much the exact same time that SNL was exploding here in the States. Sctv, frankly, was always sort of the cool Canadian stepsister to Saturday Night Live. It was weirder. It was deeper, hipper for sure, more daring. And for me, the heart of the show was always Catherine O'Hara. She's not just funny, she's fearless, and that's an absolute joy to watch. She followed up sctv, working on tons of TV shows, often with her SCTV pals, and even dabbled in fancy director land with Marty Scorsese in After Hours, and then came home alone. And just like that, she was the blockbuster mom, which I rewatched last night, by the way. It holds up completely. And then Christopher Guest started to make his improvised movies, starting with Waiting for Guffman and best in show. And she's basically stolen every scene in every one of them. And I haven't even mentioned her Emmy award winning turn on Schitt's Creek. And I'm not going to go through every credit and every award because Holy crap, Catherine O'Hara likes to work, but you get the idea. She's unbelievably funny. Truth is, if you're watching something and Catherine O'Hara comes onto the screen, you just know that every time, she's going to score every time. Fellow SCTV alum Marty Short said of Catherine, she is one of the most loyal, wise human beings I've ever known. Which of course makes her perfect for our little podcast here. I couldn't be more excited to welcome to the show an actor, mother, comedy legend and woman who is truly wiser than me, the exquisite Catherine O'Hara. Hi, Katherine.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, my lord. Julia, that's too much. Thank you. Too much.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, it's not too much.

[Catherine O'Hara]

It's over now, right?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, it's over. That's the end of the podcast, Katherine.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Thank you.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Thank you so much for joining. I love that.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I loved hearing all those nice things.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Well, goodbye.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, they're true. So are you comfortable if I ask your real age?

[Catherine O'Hara]

If you tell yours.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I will.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I'm 70.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I'm 63.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, you baby.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I know. I'm just a wee thing.

[Catherine O'Hara]

You are a dear little thing.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And how old do you feel? Really? How old do you feel?

[Catherine O'Hara]

I don't know. Well, I feel what I am. I don't know. Who knows what anything's supposed to feel like.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I know. But when you hit 70.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Which is a big marker, did you think like, wow, this isn't what I thought 70 feels like. And the only reason I said that is because that was true for me. When I hit the markers, Even starting with 30, I always remember, like, 30, it sounded so adult. And I was like, I don't feel like that, you know?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Well, that's what I'm saying. You never really feel like you. Like you've been told you're supposed to feel or the way you imagine others feel.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, right.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I feel. I don't want to say young, but I don't feel old.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, that's a good answer, that. Yeah. I feel the same. I feel the same.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Why?

[Catherine O'Hara]

I just feel like I'm. Well, I'm lucky to be Alive, for sure.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And I don't know. I don't know what it's supposed to feel like.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

What do you think is the best part about being your age, though? Is there a best part?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, boy. Being alive. And I don't think of my age, except sometimes I'll be around a bunch of younger people, you know, working. Sometimes you work. In my case, you work. And you're often the oldest person on set.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And I don't even think of the age, but if I. I would say, oh, we're all the same age, even though we're not. But we're all human beings relating. We're all, you know, on a set, we're all working on a show. We're all, you know, serving the story and having fun and, you know, working together. And then I go in sometimes I think, wow, at best, maybe they look at me as, like, some adorable old lady. I'm saying at best.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, I know, at best. But it's funny that you say that, because as you were saying, I'm thinking, well, yeah, it makes sense, because particularly in our business, you're on set with other actors, you're playing. It's playful. God willing, it's a playful environment. Right.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And so sort of age drops off in that environment.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But I've had the same experience of being on set and thinking, wow, what the fuck? Like, I just did this Marvel movie, and, well, first of all, I don't know any of the references anybody's making to the Marvel Universe, number one. But also, like, culturally, and everybody is my children's age. Like, almost everyone on set.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Wow. Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

That is funky town. This doesn't have to do with anything at all. But we both have. It doesn't. It's not really even appropriate for this podcast, but who cares? We both have Pope stories. Because I heard you got in trouble. Yes. I heard you got in trouble at the Vatican and you got yelled at by a priest. Can you talk about that? What happened? What did you do? Et cetera. What happened?

[Catherine O'Hara]

This is so. It's so stupid to even tell it, but I will. Anyway. I met my husband, Beau Welch. He was a production designer on the first Beetlejuice movie.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And Tim Burton basically made him ask me out. And because I was grousing to Tim that this guy was talking to me every day and never asked me out, and so Tim said, let me see what I could do. He did talk to him, and Beau begrudgingly asked me out, and now we're still married, thank goodness. But Tim Also gave us an amazing wedding gift, which was a private tour at the Vatican.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, it was a wedding gift?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Only Tim Burton would give a present like that. That's amazing.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Somebody had given him the gift and he'd been blown away, so he passed it on, which is really wonderful and generous. So this lovely priest, or cardinal, took us all around the Vatican, and he was wild. He took us everywhere, including, I swear, the Pope's closet. He took us on the elevator that the Pope takes down to the St. Peter's Basilica to say Mass. He took us in this beautiful little museum, private museum, full of. In glass cases, all the gifts given to the Vatican from all over the world.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Wow.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Crowns and jeweled. I don't know, whatever. And he let us open the case and take out crowns and pretend to be putting them in my husband's backpack. And we're laughing, but when we were where we thought was the Pope's closet, then another priest came by. It's. It's our guide that got yelled at, not us, actually. Although we were part of it for sure, because we're all in there laughing. Got it. Yeah. Not a big closet. It was a small closet.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, it's just probably the same thing over and over again, isn't it?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah. It's not that much variety, is there? What happens to the clothes he used to wear? What's your Pope's story?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, my Pope's story is that I get an email from Stephen Colbert that says the Pope wants to meet a bunch of people in comedy. Are you available to go? So the first thing I do is I text Stephen because I think maybe this is like he's been hacked or something. Yeah, for real. And he said, no, no, that's real.

[Catherine O'Hara]

He didn't ask for money, though.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, he didn't ask for money, but that could have been in the second email, so I was being careful. Anyway, it's true. Long story short, a bunch of us end up at the Vatican meeting with the Pope, who wanted to have make a speech about the importance of laughter and comedy and the spirituality of that and, you know, which is very, very, very nice. I was totally flabbergasted at the pomp of it and the. I mean, it feels very. And I don't mean this as disrespectfully as it might sound, but it feels very wizard of Ozzy. You know what I mean? Well, you know, with the guys, and they've got. They've got their costumes that these. What are they called? The Swiss Guard? Come walking in with the Stripes and the feathers on top of their head.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And you expect them to sing oe. Oh, yo. You know. You know, if you're grading on a Pope curve. This Pope is a good guy.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah, yeah, he is.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But I highlight grading on a Pope curve.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I knew that event happened, and I was very jealous.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

You should have been there. It's silly that you weren't.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah. Come on. I'm Catholic.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I know. Did you get to speak with him? I shook his hand.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Wait, you have a picture? Oh, shit. Where did I put that fucking picture? Ugh. Anyway, whatever. I shook his hand and I said, God bless you. And he said, God bless you, too. That's great. So that was nice.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And then.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But the real kicker was David Sedaris was there. Do you know David Sedaris?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Okay.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I don't know him personally, but of course I know him. Yes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Okay. So we're talking afterwards, and David says that he's going to go to the Pope store. There's that store in Rome that sells all the Pope clothing. And actually, I was going to go there, too, because you can get, like, good red Pope socks and stuff. And I said, okay, I'm going to go with you. And we ended up going to that store together. And he bought all of these robes, all of these, like, priestly robes with the red sashes and all the rest of it, because, you know, well, he likes to dress in costume a lot. And he said he thought he would wear. Wear this to do his work.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I'm amazed that that is available.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I'm amazed, too.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I didn't know that. Yeah. Isn't that. What's that called? Appropriation?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes. He wrote about it in the New Yorker. And I'll send you the story because he wrote a whole story about going to the Pope. It's very good.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Excellent.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But there's a joke at the top of it that I totally credit him with. It's not my joke, but it's incredible. And it goes like this. Two priests were driving a car together down a highway, and they get pulled over by a cop. And the cop comes up to the window, says, roll down your window. And he says, we're looking for two child molesters. And the priests look at each other and they look back at him and they go, we'll do it.

[Catherine O'Hara]

No, no, I'm sorry.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I know.

[Catherine O'Hara]

It's terrible.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I know. Bless yourself. I'm sorry. I'm telling you this wonder, good Catholic girl. Apologies.

[Catherine O'Hara]

No, don't apologize. A good joke is a good joke.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

A good joke Is a good joke. Yes. Speaking of Catholicism, I read your first role was playing the Virgin Mary in a nativity play.

[Catherine O'Hara]

That's really sad.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, it's a starring part.

[Catherine O'Hara]

That's sad.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, it wasn't a thing.

[Catherine O'Hara]

At the park up the street from our house.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, well, we have to all start somewhere. What were they gonna do, put you on stage on Broadway at however old you were? I mean, how did you. Do you remember it?

[Catherine O'Hara]

All I remember because my mom would bring it up every once in a while, was that I lost her lovely blue housecoat.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, your mom let you give it to the costume department and you lost it.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Baby blue. Yeah. See, Isn't that a cute, hilarious story?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It's hilarious.

[Catherine O'Hara]

It's so sad.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But you know what this reminds me of? What was I watching that you were doing? Oh, it was waiting for Guffman, and you and Fred were doing a scene and you did something so brilliant where you were mouthing his lines. Do you remember that? And it reminded me of watching kids in a school play. Oh, yeah, yeah, Right. Because there's always somebody who knows the entire thing backwards and forwards. And in fact, I remember once we went to some play at school in my son Henry's class, I think, and one kid on stage, when he didn't have a line, he would turn and start to talk to his friends who were watching in the audience.

[Catherine O'Hara]

No.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. He had no sense of keeping the thing going. If he didn't have a line, he didn't need to worry about the show.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Isn't that incredible?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Wow. Yeah, it was sweet.

[Catherine O'Hara]

You've worked with people like that, haven't you?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I actually have. I know.

[Catherine O'Hara]

If they're not talking, there's nothing going on.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right?

[Catherine O'Hara]

There's nothing worth seeing.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Completely. Talk about not listening. I love that.

[Catherine O'Hara]

That's really good.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, it's funny. Much more with Catherine O'Hara after this quick little break. Don't go anywhere. Staying hydrated is absolutely essential. Proper hydration is the key to keeping your body balanced and your energy levels steady. But hydration isn't just about drinking water. Sometimes you need a little extra support to keep going. That's where Liquid IV's hydration multiplier plus immune support in Mango passion fruit comes in. It's not just hydration. It's an upgrade for your wellness routine. This blend also gives you the immune support you need to stay at your best. With five times the daily value of vitamin C and three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, Liquid IV is formulated to help your body absorb water and nutrients faster so you can hydrate more effectively. Plus, the tropical Mango passion fruit flavor is like a mini vacation for your taste budssweet. Tangy and totally refreshing. Just one stick helps you hydrate better than water alone and gives your immune system the support it needs. All thanks to the powerful blend of electrolytes, essential vitamins and nutrients. And Liquid IV is all about quality. It's non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free with no artificial sweeteners or colors. Every stick provides a perfectly balanced formula to keep you feeling your best. Support everyday wellness with Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to liquidiv.com and use code wiser at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop Better hydration today using code [e-mail] this show is sponsored by Macy's Thanksgiving morning wouldn't be complete without the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. This year marks the 96th annual parade live from New York City. There's something so special about waking up to those huge, colorful balloons making their way through the city streets. It's like a little bit of magic filling up your living room, and it's the perfect start to the holiday before all the cooking and festivities get underway. This year's parade is even more exciting with Minnie Mouse making her debut as a brand new balloon floating down the streets of New York alongside all the other iconic characters. And it's not just about the balloons and floats. There are incredible Broadway performances, marching bands from across the country, and of course, Santa himself closing it out to kick off the holiday season. So grab your family, cozy up and make the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade part of your Thanksgiving tradition. To learn more about the parade and what's in store this year, visit macy's.com parade when the weather turns cooler, it's time to embrace everything cozy and quince has just what you need. From luxurious cashmere to soft loungewear, quince offers high quality essentials at prices that will shock you. The quince 100% merino wool scarf coat checks all the boxes soft, warm and so stylish you'll wonder how you ever live without it. The attached scarf and delicate embroidery gives it a bespoke, artisanal feel, while the oversized fit gives warmth and comfort you can really wrap up in. It's the perfect fall staple item for everything you're doing, whether that's the farmer's Market brunch with friends or just walking the dog and where else can you get 100% merino wool for these prices? Here's the best part. Quince cuts out the middlemen and works directly with the best factories so you can get a gorgeous, high quality wardrobe for a fraction of what you'd pay elsewhere. No markups, no gimmicks, just pure, timeless comfort that doesn't break the bank. Get cozy in Quince's high quality wardrobe essentials. Go to quince.com wiser for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.com wiser to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com wiser I know you were long term friends with incredible Gilda Radner.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And you met her when you were young because she was dating your brother, which is extraordinary, by the way. I had. When I was growing up, I had a picture of her on the bulletin board of my teenage bedroom, just as an FYI.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Did you?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I did.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Aw. Did you ever get to meet her?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, sorry.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I know. What did being close to her teach you?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Well, now that I think of it, I think she was just a great example of doing her work and being so lovely and talented and hilarious and also being just a lovely person.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Just being a kind person.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Like there was no. Yeah, that. It was. It was two different worlds, but it was also just one beautiful person that she was. It was just. She was consistent. Consistent. Like she was just herself on stage, even though she did a ton of characters and totally herself. Oh, I'm not explaining it right.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

What are you doing? Are you lack. Are you asking ChatGPT where? No.

[Catherine O'Hara]

For help?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No. Because you looked away. Like you're going onto, like a computer to look up something nice to say about Gilda Radner.

[Catherine O'Hara]

That'd be great. Nice thoughts on Gilda. Oh, wait, I had these memorized. I thought, what happened? No. And then when I got in Second City, I got in because she left. I was understudy to her and Rosemary Radcliffe, the other woman in the cast at the time.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And Gilda went on to do National Lampoon, which led to her doing Saturday Night Live. No. So I only knew her for that period, but I really could honestly say I wouldn't know anything about acting or improv or comedy, I don't think without watching her or have all the opportunities. No. Without knowing her at all. I just really imitated her. When I understudied her, all I did was try to imitate her before I could develop my own characters. You know, I got out of high school. I shouldn't even admit this. I didn't go to college. Unless you call Second City University of Comedy.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Why can't you?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Well, I'm going to forever to my kids. Anyway. No, I got out of high school and she was in our lives, and then she went and did Second City, and I followed her there and got to understudy her. I wouldn't have known about any of it. I wouldn't. I didn't. You know, this is pre Internet and I'm so glad I got to have this experience. Pre Internet?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And to be that blindly optimistic.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

About.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Thinking, hey, why not just try this? Like, there's no one else in the world except these few people in Toronto who are trying to do this, so why can't I try it too?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

That's kind of incredible. So you didn't have any feeling of. Well, I mean, of course, if you're trying something, it could fail miserably, but you have to be willing to take that risk. And then you. And if it does, then you do it again and you try something else and hopefully it doesn't fail. Right.

[Catherine O'Hara]

But how great. But how great to be able to fail?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, you have to be able to fail.

[Catherine O'Hara]

To not have strangers watching and commenting.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, yes, that's the Internet.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I feel bad. I feel bad for people starting out now because it just takes away. Away your ability to take risks, to take things.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes. Your sense of confidence, your sense of abandon. Abandon.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And to have. And when you're starting out, to have to lock into something so quickly instead of trying, you know, a thousand different things. Why not? Why not? You know, you can't. I don't think you can have that same experimentation if you're sending it out to the world.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So you felt that experimentation doing Second City. You felt that abandoned there for sure. Right.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, I don't. I didn't even think about it. That was the way it was. That's. That's. Isn't that way. It was when you got in.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But I was in the. Well, wait a minute, let me be clear. I was in the touring company, so we were only doing other people's material.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Right, Right.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It was obviously very male centric, but everything is. It seems.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And we can get into that.

[Catherine O'Hara]

But.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But there were. It was not a particularly. My group was not a particularly happy group of people. And there were a lot of drugs and there was a lot of drinking.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Wow. Yeah. What year was that when you got in?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

80. 81 in that area. However, I had the Experience that you were talking about doing theater with another theater group, practical theater group, which is in Chicago. And that was my husband's theater group then boyfriend, or not even actually, anyway, whatever. And so. But I had that feeling of like, wait, this might be funny. Let's try this. Let's see if that. And, you know, it was like a playful thing without inhibition, which is a really, Like a gift. The gift of all gifts. Right.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Isn't it the best? And what a great age. I've often thought of this. What a great age to be in an ensemble. Because you, you know, in your early 20s. Yes, it's great age to be at. Because you look at the world, you just think you know more than everyone else, and you look at the world and you say, ah, if I had that power, I would do that better. If I had that job, I would do that better. I, you know, I just. You just have a great natural cockiness at that age. And you're oblivious. Really. That's why. And that's what I would miss for people about the Internet, that you could be oblivious and just think, I'm going to try this. Why not me?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And it's such a good point.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And it kind of felt that way. Yeah. That cockiness at that age. But you're not really. You don't really have it together. So you surround yourself, if you're lucky, with really good, talented people who are all kind of at the same stage. Right. Like nervy, cocky, but with talent. So you're. You're lifting each other up, you know, and challenging each other. But. So it's a great mix of great confidence and, oh, my God, take care of me. Oh, I'm following you. You know, give me something to work with here.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, it's great confidence and it's a team sport.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Hey, Catherine, do you remember any of the improv games you used to play back then?

[Catherine O'Hara]

There was one Joe Flaherty had us do. Remember when I first got in the cast, or maybe I was still understood, but I got to hang out with all of them at rehearsal, and Joe had us play a game where you had to do. Had to imitate a standup comic at the time, but you had to do it instantly, like improvise. Improvise a standup act. But you didn't have to have the jokes, you just had to have the rhythm of the jokes. So I don't know if they would give us a name, but they would definitely give us a topic. And at the time, there was this comic, Toadie Fields. Who would be on talk shows?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Sure, yeah.

[Catherine O'Hara]

You don't remember? Okay.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Of course. No, I do.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I remember because I have made my family play this at the cottage. Everybody was so good at it. Oh, my Lord, they were all so good at. I was not particularly good at. But I do remember what I did.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

What did you do?

[Catherine O'Hara]

I tried to do Tony Fields, but I said, I. It's like I met a fellow and I asked him if we could go out. I said, how about you go out Friday? He said, no, I'm busy. I said, how about you go out Saturday? No, I'm busy. How about you go out with me Sunday? No, I'm busy. I couldn't get a date. There's like no joke. The rhythm of a job.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I'm sorry.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I didn't even do it right.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, you did. It's perfect. This is such a good game. This is such a good game.

[Catherine O'Hara]

We gave my nephew roller skating and George Carlin and he used the mic so beautifully about Swish. What's it feel like? Where are you going? You know, all like, my sister Mary Margaret, her name was Scabies. Scabies, Lice or something. She was like, you know, a heady kind of comic, you know, with her notepad. Just kind of what's on my mind right now. I'm gonna be really easy about it. This is new comedy. I don't know.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, it's sort of like Steven Wright. Remember Stephen Wright?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yes, yes, love him. Still quoted.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It's a big world. I wouldn't want to paint it right.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Open 24 hours. I knocked on the door was closed. I knocked some more. Guy came to the door, says 24 hours. Not in a row. Do you still. Sorry, I'm gonna ask you a question, please.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes, sure.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Do you still draw on everything you learned at Second City? Oh, maybe not. Maybe more of your other company.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Practical, Practical theater company. Yes.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Do you feel like you draw still on what you learned there?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I draw on that and I draw, but it's not one specific place. I mean, there's a lot to be said for experience. And I draw on all of it, you know, for real. I mean, I draw on being live on SNL performing live. That schedule, which was grueling. You would go in on a Monday, you'd meet whoever is hosting, and then Monday and Tuesday, writers, actors and actor writers would stay up all night. It was a very sort of drug driven schedule. It was sort of. And it's still like that. I don't mean to suggest they're doing drugs. But it was sort of driven by late night partying. But at any rate, everybody's staying up late writing sketches. Writing sketches. And then Wednesday you would have a table read in which you would read all the sketches. And then after the table read, the producers would decide what's going in the show. And then you would rehearse that Thursday, Friday, and then Saturday, you're live. And so what was the schedule for you guys at sctv?

[Catherine O'Hara]

We would start writing, I guess, I don't know, months before shooting. We would just sort of continue writing and shooting all along. Like I've heard at snl, you know, if a scene doesn't make it into the show, it's more than.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It's dead.

[Catherine O'Hara]

More than not. It's. Yeah, it's dead.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Totally dead.

[Catherine O'Hara]

It's crazy. We would rework stuff and over and over. You know, we never gave up on a good idea that we thought was a good idea.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Wow.

[Catherine O'Hara]

No, it was a whole different. We never had an audience. So we were just trying to make each other laugh. Yeah, it was way a thousand times more relaxed. Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, that's incredible.

[Catherine O'Hara]

We had no sense of anybody watching the show until, you know, years later, people would come and talk to us about it. You know, my dad thought I was just making a big mistake and, you know.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, he did? Why, what did he say?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Well, because he was nervous, you know, he was nervous for me, he was nervous for all of us. It was seven kids nervous for all of us about what we're going to do with our lives. And I said I wanted to act and it didn't. I don't think it made sense until people at work said they saw me on sctv. Then it was like, oh, okay, she's safe, it's okay, it's all good. But, yeah, no, very relaxed. I hosted Saturday Night Live twice and was shocked at how many good pieces at that read through didn't make it to show. Yeah, like the stuff that I thought was funny. I guess I've been wrong. Taste. Well, I mean, good stuff made it, but. But so much good material that would get laughs. And it just. It's gone then, isn't it?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It's dead. It's gone. It's totally dead. I mean, occasionally something will come back, but I don't know, that's the culture of the place. But I mean, it stands to reason that good things get lost because you read so many sketches. I mean, I mean, it goes on for hours and hours. It's a pile, you know, two feet high. Of sketches.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Wow.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So. But you know, it's funny. Cause when I went back to host, I. I've hosted a couple times and it was hugely. It was like going back to high school and getting to redo things. Do you know what I mean?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, nice.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, it was because I knew how the show worked. I knew what I needed to do to succeed on the show. And the schedule hadn't changed since I was there in the 80s. It was the exact same age. The only thing that was different, it was obviously a different cast. Definitely more female friendly and different producers.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And they wanted to find material for you to do.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes. As opposed to. She can be the waitress.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Your coffee.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Your coffee, Mr. Gumby.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And Andrea and Catherine could come in as the wives, or they'd come in as the waitresses, or they'd come in.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

As a. Yeah, tell me about it. What about. I read that you were. When I guess it was at sctv, that you would tell your ideas to Dave Thomas and he would pitch him.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Is this true?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes, it is sad.

[Catherine O'Hara]

No, he wouldn't pitch them on my behalf. He would just pitch them if it was a good idea.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, but you gave him permission to do that?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Well, it was unspoken, I guess I would just say, what if we. What if we did? You know? And they'd say, hey, what if this happened? And if they laughed, he. He'd just go along with. I go. And sometimes I was. That's my idea. Which is really sad. Excuse me. That's my idea.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Hello. When was there a moment in your life when you thought, I'm not going to do that anymore, I'm going to pitch it myself? Do you remember?

[Catherine O'Hara]

No, I don't. I don't remember.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

You don't remember?

[Catherine O'Hara]

No, I'm still scared.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

See, this is what I want to talk to you about. Because I was wondering when I read that and I thought I was so used to being shut down. Yeah, that was just part of the thing, you know, it was. I don't know if I think it's a woman thing. I think it's a woman thing.

[Catherine O'Hara]

But anyway, I think you're probably right.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I think I am. But let me see. I would say that.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Are you looking at chat? Are you looking at chat?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I'm looking at AI to help me get through this. Because I'm having. Hang on, let me just keep it.

[Catherine O'Hara]

What did Julia say?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Julia, you are one of three women in the ca. Okay, yes, AI is helping me here. Yes. And. But there is. There was, and I still fight it. A remnant of for example, when I'm pitching something, you know, whatever, any aspect of a scene or a this or a that, there's a part of me that has to push through that pitch because that's a remnant of. From way back then, of not being heard. And I think it also leaves me with a little defensiveness about my ideas. That's probably not healthy, but I. I mean, I'm aware of it as it's happening. Do you kind of know what I'm talking about?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, yeah, No, I start. I would start most if I'm conscious, try to be conscious of it. Then I'll try not to do it. But I would start most ideas with, sorry, this might not work, but what about this? Yeah, sorry. I know you're doing that, but. Yeah, the sorry. Always a sorry. I would do that at a restaurant, though. Sorry. Could I get more tea, please? Yeah, yeah, sorry. Remember I asked for tea an hour ago? Is it okay? Sorry.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I'm so sorry. I didn't order this hamburger. I'm so sorry. I ordered a salad. Exactly.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Sorry. Would you mind taking it back? I'll still pay, but please. Sorry.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I'm sorry. I think. I'm sorry. I was standing in line here. Oh, you want to go ahead? Yeah, go ahead. Oh, it's fine. No, no, no, it's fine.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I said sorry. I've said sorry to a key on my. On my iPad or computer. If I hit the wrong one.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Sorry. Oh, dear.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Is that bad?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, you might want to get a CAT scan after we finish this conversation. Just saying it's time for a break. We'll get more wisdom from Catherine O'Hara in just a moment. You know, one of the things no one tells you about being an adult is how complicated saving and investing can feel. Suddenly you're supposed to know how the stock market works. Yeah, Forget it. No, thanks. We don't teach basic investing skills in schools and we expect everyone to be able to figure it out on their own. That's why Acorns was introduced. Today's episode is sponsored by acorns. ACORNS it easy to start automatically saving and investing for your future. You don't need a lot of money or expertise to invest with Acorns. In fact, you can get started with just your spare change. Acorns recommends an expert built portfolio that fits you and your money goals, then automatically invests your money for you. No spreadsheets, no digging around for stock tips. Just smart automatic investing while you live your life. So if you've ever thought I should really start saving for the future. But after this next episode, Acorns is for you. Their mission of of making investing accessible has resonated with so many people who previously thought getting smart with money just wasn't for them. Head to acorns.com wiser or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future. Today, paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors, LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] wiser we all have fitness goals, but it's another thing to stick to them until we see progress Peloton makes it easy to keep up with your goals no matter where you are or how your schedule looks. With a huge variety of classes, Peloton fits every stage and every moment. Whether you're welcoming a new chapter or just carving out a few moments for yourself. Whatever era you're in, holiday hustle, running season, or a new wellness journey, Peloton is ready with with the workouts and encouragement to keep you going, you can try barre, Pilates, yoga, running, meditation and so much more to discover what energizes you. Each class type is there to help you stay motivated and keep moving. Need flexibility? Peloton's All Access membership means you can work out at home, on your bike, tread or row, or log into the app to squeeze in a workout wherever you happen to be, whether you're at a park, in a hotel, or even cheering on your kids from the sidelines. And if you're balancing a packed schedule, Peloton has you covered. Classes come in all lengths. Whether you have just 10 minutes or you're ready to dive into a 45 minute session, there's always something ready on demand or live whenever you need it. Find your push Find your power with [e-mail] as the temperatures continue to drop, there's nothing better than slipping into soft, luxurious sheets that make your bed the coziest place on earth. That's exactly what Cozy Earth delivers with their best selling Bamboo Sheets set sheets designed to transform your sleep and make every night feel like a retreat. Made from 100% premium viscose from Bamboo, these sheets offer unmatched breathability, keeping you several degrees cooler through the night. No more tossing and turning from overheating, just cool, comfortable sleep the whole night through. And with every wash, they get even softer, which is just amazing. Plus, these sheets make the perfect gift. Whether you're treating yourself or someone else, they're a thoughtful way to give the gift of better sleep. Because who wouldn't love waking up refreshed, wrapped in the softest sheets imaginable? Plus, with Cozy Earth's 10 year warranty, there's no need to worry about pilling or wear just silky smooth sheets that are built to last through countless cozy nights. Whether it's for yourself or someone on your list, Cozy Earth's bamboo sheet set is the perfect way to embrace the season and gift a little comfort. This year. Wrap the ones you love in luxury with cozy earth. Visit cozyearth.com wiser and use our exclusive 40% off code wiser to give the gift of luxury this holiday season. That's cozyearth.com wiser if you get a post purchase survey say you heard about Cozy Earth from the Wiser Than Me podcast. Wiser than Me Season 3 is available ad free when you subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You'll also get access to exclusive interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now in the Apple Podcast app so you talked about when you were doing sctv. So you were one of two women in the cast, right?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, I know where you're going, lady.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes. So tell me.

[Catherine O'Hara]

That's what's wrong with aging. You start seeing things a little too clearly.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And that's why men like to go with younger women, because they don't get it yet.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Perfect. Perfect. That's the problem with aging. You see things a little too clearly. So the fact that you guys were being paid less than your male counterparts on scp.

[Catherine O'Hara]

You know what though?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I've got to correct that, because really.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Only in the last few years did I find out that John Candy also got. Okay, explain that. The two women and John Candy got paid less than everyone. Now John, God bless him, turned it around big time as the years went on. Yes, he got a lawyer and he got more than anybody. And good for him.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, so maybe it was about you just had shitty representation or was it?

[Catherine O'Hara]

We had no representation.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, well, so there's the real problem.

[Catherine O'Hara]

These are the days when you didn't need representation, Julie.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

They just said, we're going to pay you 200 a week. And you're like, yes.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, that was exactly what it was like for me.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I know. I remember.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And I'm not kidding.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Of course you're not kidding. I remember that when I got first hired to do Second City and I was doing. I was in. I was still at school at Northwestern in Chicago and I called my acting teacher and I said, guess what, Bud? His name was Bud Byer. He's passed away. And I said, guess what? I just got hired to do Second City. And he said, how much are they paying you? And I said, yeah, he said that as opposed to anything else. And I said, oh, I don't know, I forgot to ask. And then he laughed at me and made me feel so bad about myself. I mean, he was like, oh, God, you're kidding.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, he's.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It was a real asshole move.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Boy, was he jealous. Like he wouldn't be able to teach you, he wouldn't be able to. You would stop doing classes with him or something. What was. Well, guess what?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I kind of did. Because that.

[Catherine O'Hara]

See, he knew that was coming.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I started doing theater in Chicago and I took a lot of pass fails and put off semesters and things like that. But anyway, it's all good. It all worked out. Talk about when something ends. I know, like when a show ends, it can be so emotional. And I know that Marty Short, he threw a party for you and he played a bunch of clips of your time at sctv. It was so emotional. That's very sweet of him to have done that, isn't it? Why are you laughing? He didn't do it.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah, he did, but I think he did it to torture me. I don't know if he was doing it to be sweet.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, for real. No, there was no having a party.

[Catherine O'Hara]

No, it was a party. It was a party at the end of a season, I guess. And I had given my notice. Yeah. That I was leaving. And it was. It was all about my personal life. I swear, my quitting. You know, I got out of high school and got into Second City. That was my life, life right in Second City to sctv. Like, I just went along, like, ooh, now we're doing this and we're getting paid. Oh, that's amazing. You know, and then I finally hit at some point at this reality, like, where is my life going? And I need to focus on that other part, like meeting someone or, you know, I mean, I was raised to think you get married and you have children if God willing, you know, and that's.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Catherine O'Hara]

You know, and that's your life. Yeah. So I. So I quit mainly for that reason. So it was really emotional. I didn't want to leave the show, really. I didn't want to quit. But I thought if I don't focus on. I don't know, I don't know. I'm not sure it was the smartest thing. It really made my dad sad because he was so happy that the show was doing well. And he heard about it at work. That was awful. But, yeah, anyway, so, yeah, there was a party at the end of a season at Marty's house, and he put a clip package together of my work.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And she was like, why? Why would you do this to me, Marty? That was my reaction. We were going outside the house crying. It's like, Catherine, I thought it'd be fun. Sorry.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, I see. So, okay, got it, got it. So when you did work with Chris on all the movies that you work with him on, Chris Guest.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

All of that stuff's improvised. Although there's an outline. Correct. The way Larry David does on Curb.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no dialogue written, although they would have a few. They definitely have great running jokes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes, of course.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Like in Best in Show, it was in the script that I would run into guys who had the best sex of their lives with me.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I mean, it couldn't be better.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I want that for all my characters. Yeah. And Chris never repeated, like, from take to take. When you're improvising all your dialogue like that and you do, you know, one, two, three takes, whatever you think, oh, I came up with something. There just happened, and now do I repeat it? Oh, is that cheesy to repeat it? And, oh, how can I get that joke in? Like, what if that take isn't used? And, you know, or maybe it's a sound problem or. Or whatever the shot and it's like, oh, we came up with that. Like, where does that go? Can we not allow to. You know, there's always that challenge in the brain. Like, no, open up. Just be open to whatever happens. You know, just listen. Chris Guest would never repeat a thought between takes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, really? As an actor, he wouldn't.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Crazy. As an improviser, just so free thinking.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Wow. We did that on Veep. We used to. It wasn't necessarily an outline, but very, very often there would be scenes. And Armando Iannucci, who created the show, he would say, okay, forget the script, just go and do something. Go. Just go. Try this in rehearsal. One for fun. Whatever. You know, you've got to get to point A to point B. And it was so much fun to do that kind of thing. Terrifying.

[Catherine O'Hara]

But as long as you know what point A and point B is, then you can. If you know the parameters.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I find when it's just open themselves. Hey, why don't you improvise something? What? Within what? What are you talking about?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Do you love your downtime or are you working a lot? Well, you're Doing a podcast. So obviously you love working.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

You know, I love working. I don't love being away from home. And even now, I mean, my kids are grown. Let's talk about that.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah. You have two sons and so do I.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Don't you just want to raise them to be lovely partners to somebody? Just.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes, you do. And are they, are your sons partners to anyone yet?

[Catherine O'Hara]

They are. They both, they both live with their girlfriends and, and they are good guys and they, and they really love each other.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Do your two get along like that? They're like, yeah, thick as thieves. I mean, I think they're like best friends. Yes. It's. That's my biggest triumph in life, actually.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

How did you do that working when they were little? How'd you figure that out?

[Catherine O'Hara]

I didn't, I really didn't work much.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, you didn't work much?

[Catherine O'Hara]

No, I didn't. No. And I'd work in town. Remember the first, the first offer I got to work, they were both. How old were they? Probably about five and eight, maybe six and nine. And I got offered a job in London. Oh. And. Yeah, and it was a six week job. And we had a great nanny at the time. She wasn't living, but she was a great, great, great girl. So they came for two weeks. I was alone for two weeks. They came back for two weeks. You know, got them out of school, whatever. So I thought, you know, you've always heard that with relationships with couples, two weeks is the limit. You shouldn't go longer than that apart unless it works for both of you, I guess.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Same for kids.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Catherine O'Hara]

So that works. Worked at that age. What about you? When they were little.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

When they were little, I mean. Yeah, I was doing Seinfeld when I had both of them. So with. They're five years apart. And so with my older son, Henry, I bring him to work. I had a nursery on set. And so he came to work with our nanny. And so I go back and forth. Frankly, that was really hard, you know, because there was always this pull in one direction or the other, and it was sort of hard to a certain extent to kind of be where you were.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But that's how I did it. And then I had our second son, Charlie, just. It was just that last year of Seinfeld, so he was just a baby by then. I realized it was better for me to leave him at home and go to work and then come back. But I mean, we were in, we were all in la, so it wasn't like I was on location or anything like. So Henry had a. A memory of me working. He remembered craft service. He was just like crazy for crafts.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, yeah, they love it.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

They love it.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Does Charlie. Does Charlie feel ripped off because he didn't get to be on the set all the time?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, I don't think so. I took a p. There's a picture of him on set in the. In the Seinfeld diner that I have him on the table. No, he doesn't feel ripped off at all. But what I was going to say is that a couple years later, I did go back to work. I was doing a series, but it was a single camera series called Watching la. And I had not been gone from home while he was young. And so now he was like 4. And he came to set one day and I was showing them the sets inside the studio and one of the sets was a bedroom. And so I was pointing it all out. And then as he was leaving, he says, mommy, I love your new bedroom. I thought, this child. I've moved here. Oh, the guilt, the guilt.

[Catherine O'Hara]

That's cute.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But now. But your boys are in. Your boys are in the business, is that right?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah. Well, the older 1, the 30 year old is doing was doing set construction and the Younger1, who's 27, is a set dresser in Vancouver. There's tons of work there. But they're so lucky they have jobs.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

They're so lucky they have jobs. And both of our boys too are working in this industry. And it is quite a remarkable thing to witness, isn't it, to see them?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But I'm really glad they're artistic. Aren't you glad that your kids are artistic? Yes. I mean, because they are. I mean, obviously they're creating, making things that's cool as shit.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Well, we definitely encouraged that at home, didn't we?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, we did. Because it's all we knew. Frankly, I didn't know anything else. I can't even.

[Catherine O'Hara]

It's like a sense of humor. I think you're so lucky if you're raised with a sense of humor.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Boy, isn't it the truth?

[Catherine O'Hara]

It's a gift. It's a gift you either get given or you don't. I don't know how you get. I don't know how you get it on your own.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

You know, it was. Fran Liebowitz was on this thing and we were talking about that and she said, it's a sense of humor. It doesn't mean that you are funny funny, but you have a sense of humor. You understand what Is funny.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Which is sort of the beginning for me, anyway. Of all the relationships I have, that is top of the list. I mean, or aligned with kindness, I think. But it has to be there, doesn't it?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah. Well, you and your husband met in comedy, didn't you?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes, we did.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Talk about your husband, Beau. And can you tell the story of what you wrote in your journal? Do you still write a journal, by the way? Do you keep a journal?

[Catherine O'Hara]

No. And journal is such a lofty name for what the. I was writing. What were you doing? I Woke up at 11 again. What am I gonna do?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, you could publish it. Catherine, that's your memoir.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Sad. Well, that's a. That's called a dead giveaway. Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, tell me what you wrote. Lame.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Lame, Lame. But I did. Yeah. Why? This guy, Bo Welch, he talks to me every day. Why won't he ask me out? We're supposed to get married.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And did you fall in love with him, like, straight off the bat?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Kinda, yeah. And once we did go out, that was it. There was no not go. Well, I mean, we've had a couple of breakups, but. Yeah. You never had a breakup with your husband, have you?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Have you gone through. Have you gone through periods? Sure.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, of course. Always. I mean, anybody who says they haven't. That's. Life is lying.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. I mean, there's always gonna be some conflict, but he's a very nice person, so it all. I mean, he is, actually. And I get the sense Beau is too.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah, he's a good guy. And we just. We really laugh a lot. Every day.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And your parents were married a long time, right?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah, 50 something. 56 years, I guess, when my dad went.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Goodness.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Well, you're on your way. God bless you to that.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Wait a minute. And then your parents were married that long, and then they died within 10 months of each other. Is that correct?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, my goodness, that must have been brutal.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Well, it was for them. You know, I remember being really grateful.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, really?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Well, I mean, I always was, but especially grateful at my mom's funeral that my mom and dad had given because my dad went first and then my mom died 10 months later. That they had given us each other because we were all together. They get. You know, they had seven kids and we're all still going. Thank God. My oldest brother's 83.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, my goodness.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah. And that they just seem like the most beautiful gift that they'd given us, each other to be with. Yeah. Yeah. My mom, you know. You hear That a lot about couples, you know, one dies and the other dies soon. I would not have predicted that about my mother. She was really vivacious and loved, loved painting and drawing and dressing beautifully and talking to everybody on the streets wherever she went. She was friendly with everyone and just, you know, really loved life and. But my poor dad had gone through a lot and my mom took care of him for years and I think that really just wore her down physically. Oh, so wasn't. I don't think it was a typical, like, oh, my world, he's gone. So my world is gone. She was physically done.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

She was done.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

What did they teach you about marriage, do you think? Think in retrospect.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, we gotta laugh. Laughing. Making each other laugh is a very sexy thing.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah, it is.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it is. It is.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh yeah. I think back on everybody trying to date everybody at Second City Theater was because we were making each other laughing. Well, we should be together. I'm totally funny. I find you funny.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

That joke is amazing. I am fucking you tonight. Right?

[Catherine O'Hara]

For real. You're funny. I'm gonna have you totally like my old fashioned way of saying, I'm going to have my way with you.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But sense of humor, for sure. I agree with that.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And faith. Faith. My mom and dad were devout Catholics, but never forgetting that the greatest gift is a sense of humor, you know, so, you know, very faithful, but definitely with humor.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

When you were talking about having all those siblings, did you ever think you would have lots of kids like your parents?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yes, I did. I really stupidly assumed it.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Why didn't you? You just. If you don't mind my asking, I got married late. Oh, I see. Uh huh.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And my body was, you know, every time I had cramps, every month, the worst cramps. My sisters and I all got them really bad. And they would take, they would take two 22s. It was a codeine you could get in Canada. And I would never, if I took one, I would hurl non stop. So I could never take anything. So I'd have to like play these mind games to will the pain away. But I would think when I had those pains, I thought, well, someday I'll have children. It'll all be worth it. I'll have seven kids of my own.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But no, but you had two good ones. That's good.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Ah, they're wonderful. Yes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, yeah. I often think, oh, I wish I had one more.

[Catherine O'Hara]

You're thinking comedy threes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I actually am. Hey, thank you for giving us so much of your time today. You're really very generous. It's really nice to talk to you.

[Catherine O'Hara]

You will edit, won't you, please?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. You're going to sound like a million bucks by the time we're done with this thing.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, you're beautiful. I love you.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I got your back, baby.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Thank you. Julie.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I'm going to ask you a few sort of rapid fire questions.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Tell me, is there something you're looking forward to?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Seeing my sons? Yes. Yeah. It has been a while now.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

How long has it been? Like, it's been a couple months.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Is there something you go back and tell yourself at 21, say, good for.

[Catherine O'Hara]

You, you nervy little.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, I like that affirmation. Good for you. Is there something you wish you'd spent less time on in your life?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, maybe sleeping.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I have never in my entire life heard somebody say they wish they'd spent less time sleeping.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Okay, Zach is.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Can I tell you some mirrors? You are fucking lucky. You sleep too much. Seriously?

[Catherine O'Hara]

I didn't say recently.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, I'm just in your life.

[Catherine O'Hara]

In my life.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So when you were like a teenager. When you were a teenager, you would sleep until like 2:00 in the afternoon. Right.

[Catherine O'Hara]

But I was also, you know, hormonal, I guess, and 16, 17. And I was just. I would come home from school and just sleep, and then my mom and dad yell for dinner and I'd go, no, leave me alone. And I just wanted to sleep. And then when I worked at Second City Theater, you know, we did the show, and then we would go to one of our houses and stay up all night coming up with ideas. It was so fun and electric and exciting. Oh, I didn't want anything else in my life. It was so great. But then I would sleep most of the day.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Got it.

[Catherine O'Hara]

So that's why I think maybe I missed some things. I think I missed John Candy's wedding.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

For real.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I was asleep.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Why am I admitting you're like Barbara Walters? You're just getting everything out of me.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I am.

[Catherine O'Hara]

You're gonna make me cry now.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Any minute it's gonna happen.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Here.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

This will make you cry. Is there something you want me to know about aging, Catherine? Or I'll say it like this. Is there something you would like me to know about aging, Catherine?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Let you find out for yourself?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I don't want it, Catherine. I don't want to taint.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I don't want to taint it for you. And I don't want to tease you in case it's not as good as what I'm getting.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, God, Catherine, you're fantastic.

[Catherine O'Hara]

You are. You're awfully good at this.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I adore you.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, I love you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I love you, too.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Are you going to call your mom? You going to call your mom?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Who you. Who you actually going to say you talked to?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Katherine Hepburn came back from the dead.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Ow. All right.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

There you go. You know, Jane Fonda was on this podcast. She talked about Katherine Hen being very, very competitive.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Wow. I guess so. Eh. Oh, yeah, that does. That's not a surprise, though, is it, really?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, it's not. Not.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I got to have dinner once with Jane Fond and a bunch of women. She was being honored the next evening, and she told us about shooting, Coming Home, and how the director, he said there would be no sex scene because John Voight's character couldn't feel anything from the waist down. And she said, but I can do, you know the scene.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I sure do.

[Catherine O'Hara]

He services her.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. It's the only thing I remember from that movie.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah. But she had to fight for it.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It gives new meaning to the title because that was. Remember. Because she was having sex with Bruce Stern. Bruce Dern.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

At the top of the film. And it's. It's without passion and any.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And then John. John Voight knew what to do.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah. Because she told him off camera. That's what needed to be done. I love that there was going to be no sex in the movie because the men said the man couldn't feel anything. So why would there be anything? Why would anyone get anything out of the deal? Yeah. Wow.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I didn't know that.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It's funny because I mean, it. It's the only thing I remember from that movie. I was like, ooh, I don't. That's kind of interesting, isn't it? Yeah. Anyway, thank you again for being so kind and generous.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Thank you, Julia.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And I give you all my love.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Thank you.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And I look forward to seeing you. I hope soon.

[Catherine O'Hara]

I would love that. Please. Yes, please. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you so much. Take care.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Thank you. You too.

[Catherine O'Hara]

By.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, that was so much fun. I'm going to get my mom on Zoom to tell her all about this conversation. Hi, mom. Hi, love.

[Catherine O'Hara]

How you doing?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Hi. I like your vote pin. That's very good.

[C]

Thank you. Big news this year. Vote.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, vote. Thank you very much. Have you voted yet? My.

[C]

Yep. Voted by meal.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Very nice. So I Talked to Catherine O'Hara today.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Who is a wonder. And I know. I admire her so much. I don't know how else to say it. I just respect and admire her so much. Although, Mommy, I have to tell you something. I think I offended her to start out. I told her, you know, she's a devout Catholic and she comes from a large Catholic family and the church has a lot of meaning for her. And I told her the Catholic priest joke that David Sedaris wrote about in his New Yorker piece. Do you have any jokes? You remember, Mom?

[C]

Yeah, I was just. We were talking last night about the first joke that you ever heard, you know. Yeah, it's not very funny. I mean, it's hysterical, but it's not funny really.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, what is it?

[C]

It's what Daddy told his grandfather was a Minister and his 80th birthday, his mother drove them cross country to Oklahoma. And daddy Tom's about four at that time. He says, I've got a joke. His grandfather loved jokes. So he said, oh, well, tell it, tell it. So he says, why did the ocean roar? Well, you would too if you had crabs on your bottom. Well, I mean that's, that's the oldest joke in the world and. But every kid, every kid knows it as their first joke. I mean, I think at least daddy did. And I remember thinking was just hysterical, that joke.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, really? When you were young.

[C]

When I was young, yeah. I don't mean now.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, let me ask you something. Can you define a kind of thing that makes you laugh?

[C]

It's funny that you say define because almost if you can define it, you're not going to laugh at it.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right.

[C]

The joke, the funniness comes from surprise, but also the turn, the twist that you didn't expect.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[C]

So, so, so that, that is. Can I define it? No, but I sure know when it happens.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, you sure know when it happens. I mean, I remember when we were little, you and I used to howl. Well, chances are I was howling and you were laughing because I was howling. But we would watch. I think it was Soupy Sales. Or was it Captain Kangaroo with the ping pong balls?

[C]

Oh, yes. Oh, yes, yes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But he would do a thing and ping pong balls would fall on him unexpectedly. And three year old me thought that was a. I mean, it was essentially like a, A jack in the box or something.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Now a good joke is so important. Yeah, but who can remember them?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, I'm asking you, can you remember a single joke?

[C]

Hold on a second. Close but no cigar. No, no, I, I can't. Can't.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No. That's all right.

[C]

So mad. Because I know some Funny jokes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

You do? I wish you could remember them.

[C]

There was one time I was telling a joke at somebody's 80th birthday party.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[C]

And I got up to tell it and it's. It's. It's about the guy that he's in a refrigerator and the refrigerator ends up hanging. Hanging over in a balcony. It's. It's very complicated. But I got through all of the complications and then couldn't remember the end. So I started to laugh so hard and I. I couldn't. I couldn't even think. I was laughing so hard and everybody was howling and nobody ever got the. Said to me, always, what was a joke? I said, I have no idea. But I got it. And it was so funny. And if I could cross people, they would have laughed. So, Julia, I know of jokes that are so funny that it gigantic. But they're going to be silent for now.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

What I wish I could know. The refrigerator one with the man in the refrigerator hanging over a balcony.

[C]

Oh, no, it's about, you know, the guy that's sort of in bed with the wife. Not his wife, somebody else. And so then quiet. Jumps into the refrigerator and then somehow the movers come and they take the refrigerator. I know, it's very complicated.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, it sounds like a smash hit moment. Should take that on the road.

[C]

No, in the telling. It all makes sense.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes. Well, evidently. Evidently, that's the case. The telling. The telling is the key. The telling is the key.

[C]

Amen. Amen. Amen.

[Catherine O'Hara]

All right, Mom.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, listen, I'm really happy this conversation.

[C]

What is it? I'm so dying to hear your interview.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

What interview? Which one? You mean with Catherine?

[C]

Well, with Catherine.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, I forgot we were on it on a podcast.

[C]

What does this have to do with Catherine?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right, Mommy.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So long, farewell. I'll see you next time I see you.

[C]

I'll see you. I'll see you soon.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Okay, Love you.

[C]

Love you. Bye.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Bye. There's more Wiser Than Me with Lemonada Premium on Apple. You can listen to every episode of season three ad free. Subscribers also get access to exclusive bonus interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now by clicking on the Wiser Than Me podcast logo in the Apple Podcasts app and then hitting the subscribe button. Make sure you're following Wiser Than Me on social media. We're on Instagram and TikTok at wiser than Me and we're on Facebook at Wiser Than Me podcast. Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonade Media created and hosted by me, Julia Louis Dreyfus. This show is produced by Chrissy Pease, Jamilah, zara Williams, Alex McEwen and Oja Lopez. Brad hall is a consulting producer, Rachel Neal is VP of New Content and our SVP of Weekly Content and Production is Steve Nelson. Executive producers are Paula Kaplan, Stephanie Whittles, Wax, Jessica Cordova, Kramer and me. The show the show is mixed by Joni Vince Evans with engineering help from James Farber, and our music was written by Henry hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Will Schlegel and of course, my mother, Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser Than Me wherever you get your podcasts and if there's a wise old lady in your life, listen up.

[D]

Hey Wiser Than Me Listeners, we want to hear from you. By just answering a few questions on our listener survey, you can share feedback about show content you'd like to see in the future and help us think about what brands would serve you best. And even better. Once you've completed the survey, you can enter for a chance to win a $100 Visa gift card. Hard the survey is short and sweet and will help us play ads you don't want to skip and keep bringing you content you love. Just go to Lemonade. Com Survey Lemonade. Com Survey.