Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Episode: Julia Gets Wise with Nina Totenberg
Release Date: October 23, 2024

In the third season of Wiser Than Me, Julia Louis-Dreyfus engages in a profound and candid conversation with renowned legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg. This episode delves into Nina’s illustrious career, personal challenges, and enduring friendships with some of the most influential figures in the American judicial system. Through their dialogue, listeners gain invaluable insights into navigating a pioneering career in journalism, overcoming gender biases, and maintaining integrity in a rapidly changing political landscape.

Early Career and Breaking Barriers

Nina Totenberg recounts her beginnings in journalism, highlighting the hurdles she faced as a woman in a predominantly male environment.
[12:00] Julia Louis-Dreyfus: "You started your journalism career at the Boston Record. American, is that the name?"
[12:02] Nina Totenberg: "Doesn't exist anymore."

Nina shares her determination to carve out a unique story, such as her undercover attempt to secure contraception in Massachusetts—a bold move that ultimately led her to seek opportunities elsewhere after facing gender-based resistance.
[13:54] Nina Totenberg: "I wanted to have a story that I could call my own."

Navigating Ageism and Personal Health Challenges

The conversation shifts to the pervasive issue of ageism and personal health struggles. Nina candidly discusses her discomfort with revealing her age and a significant health scare that required her to relearn walking, emphasizing resilience and maintaining a positive outlook.
[08:29] Nina Totenberg: "I don't think there's a wonderful part about being my age because you suddenly realize that you're not going to be around forever."

Julia relates by sharing her own battle with breast cancer, forging a connection over the shared experience of approaching severe health challenges with humor and determination.
[10:53] Julia Louis-Dreyfus: "I made a decision to approach it with a certain point of view, and you adhere to that period as much."

Breaking the Anita Hill Story and Political Fallout

One of the pivotal moments in Nina’s career was her coverage of the Anita Hill hearings in 1991. Nina reflects on the unexpected backlash from Republican senators, including a subpoena battle and personal confrontations.
[55:17] Nina Totenberg: "I refused to. I went, I showed up, I complied with the subpoena, and I didn't tell them anything."

Despite the intense pressure, Nina maintains that her integrity and commitment to journalism prevailed, eventually mending bridges with former adversaries like Senator Alan Simpson.
[57:22] Nina Totenberg: "We eventually buried the hatchet and became good friends."

Friendships with Supreme Court Justices

Nina highlights her unique relationships with various Supreme Court justices, including the late Justice Lewis Powell and Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. These friendships provided her with unparalleled insights into the judicial system and the personal lives of its most esteemed members.
[24:24] Nina Totenberg: "Justice Brennan was very helpful to me. Justice Stewart was helpful to me."

She shares anecdotes illustrating the mutual respect and camaraderie that transcended political and ideological differences, such as Justice Kagan enjoying her show Veep alongside the late Justice Scalia.
[28:17] Nina Totenberg: "Justice Kagan... said that Justice Scalia and she would talk about things within that episode that they thought were funny."

Managing Anger and Professional Relationships

Addressing personal growth, Nina discusses her early struggles with anger and how she learned to manage her temper effectively.
[30:14] Nina Totenberg: "I realized that the best thing to do when I felt that hydraulic push... was to turn around and walk out."

This self-awareness not only improved her professional demeanor but also preserved her relationships within the high-stakes environment of the Supreme Court press corps.
[32:36] Julia Louis-Dreyfus: "It's a terrible feeling... the stink of it stays with you."

Sexism, Ageism, and Resilience in Journalism

The episode delves deep into the systemic sexism and ageism Nina faced throughout her career. She reflects on being one of the few women in her early workplaces and the constant need to prove herself.
[19:59] Nina Totenberg: "We were almost always, until we came to npr, the only women where we worked."

Nina credits her enduring friendships, particularly with peers like Cokie Roberts, for providing the support and solidarity necessary to withstand and overcome these challenges.
[38:33] Nina Totenberg: "I don't think I could ever be as good a friend as Cokie was."

Reflections on the Supreme Court and Current Judicial Climate

Nina offers a contemplative analysis of the evolving Supreme Court, noting the absence of a bipartisan center that once provided balance. She expresses concern over the court's increased politicization and the potential dangers it poses to democratic principles.
[53:36] Nina Totenberg: "I think that's dangerous... there ought to be a center that is a bipartisan center."

Her reflections underscore the importance of a balanced judiciary and the risks associated with its current trajectory.
[54:00] Nina Totenberg: "There isn't now. And I think that's dangerous."

Rapid-Fire Reflections and Final Thoughts

In a series of rapid-fire questions, Nina shares personal insights and lessons learned, such as advising her younger self to remain calm and less pushy, and expressing hopes for future relaxation and continued work as long as she is able.
[60:56] Nina Totenberg: "You will make it so. Just calm down."

She concludes with a heartfelt acknowledgment of the hard work and support from family and friends that has been instrumental in her enduring career.
[65:46] Nina Totenberg: "Being lucky in your family and the people who love you."

Conclusion

This episode of Wiser Than Me offers a rich tapestry of Nina Totenberg's experiences, marked by resilience, integrity, and profound wisdom. Her journey through the complexities of journalism, coupled with personal adversities, provides listeners with a compelling narrative of perseverance and the pursuit of truth in an often tumultuous landscape.

Notable Quotes:

• Nina Totenberg [08:29]: "I don't think there's a wonderful part about being my age because you suddenly realize that you're not going to be around forever."

• Julia Louis-Dreyfus [10:53]: "I made a decision to approach it with a certain point of view, and you adhere to that period as much."

• Nina Totenberg [55:17]: "I refused to. I went, I showed up, I complied with the subpoena, and I didn't tell them anything."

• Nina Totenberg [24:24]: "Justice Brennan was very helpful to me. Justice Stewart was helpful to me."

• Nina Totenberg [53:36]: "I think that's dangerous... there ought to be a center that is a bipartisan center."

For those who haven't listened, this episode stands as a testament to the strength and wisdom of women navigating high-profile careers, offering both inspiration and practical lessons in overcoming systemic challenges.