Podcast Summary: With The Perrys

Episode: Turning the Cheek and Forgiving Offenses with Yana Conner

Date: November 17, 2025
Guests: Preston Perry, Jackie Hill Perry, and Yana Conner

Main Theme

This episode explores the deeply challenging and radically necessary practice of forgiveness, focusing on what it means to forgive others “God’s way.” Drawing from her new book, Living Beyond Offense: Doing the Hard Work of Forgiveness God’s Way, Yana Conner joins Preston and Jackie Hill Perry for an honest, practical, and theologically-rooted conversation. The discussion includes biblical foundations, the inner work of forgiveness, the boundaries of reconciliation, and why forgiveness is essential for Christian life and witness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Yana’s Reluctance & Journey to Writing About Forgiveness

• Yana did not feel naturally equipped to write on forgiveness.
  • “She knew this wasn’t like a strength of mine … It was like the Achilles heel of my walk with the Lord.” (04:39)
• The call to write emerged from personal weakness and recognition of its necessity in healing, especially in contexts like church hurt.
  • “If we are the people of God, then we should be people who have something robust to say about forgiveness.” (05:12)

2. Spiritual Warfare and Writing

• Writing about forgiveness surfaced unresolved personal relationships and fresh conflicts, intensifying the book’s authenticity.
• Yana experienced technical setbacks—like losing two weeks of edits hours before a deadline—which tested her faith and reliance on God.
  • “It really, like, disrupted my faith a little bit because I was like, God, you got me out here … you gotta have my back.” (09:25)
• Spiritual warfare and the Lord’s refining work are both at play during such significant spiritual endeavors. (06:19–10:19)

3. Shalom-Making and Peacemaking

• The conversation centers forgiveness in the broader theology of “shalom” (biblical peace), not merely being passive, but actively working toward wholeness and justice.
  • “Biblical peace isn’t the absence of conflict, it’s the presence of harmony.” (14:30, quoting Dr. Tim Mackey)
• Both justice and mercy are core components; forgiving does not mean ignoring harm but working for true rightness and relationship.
• “When we make peace, we prove that we are his children. We carry his shalom, making his merciful, compassionate DNA.” (13:56)

4. Turning the Other Cheek

• The call to “turn the other cheek” (Matthew 5) is not a call to suffer more, but to humbly confront, aiming to restore dignity to both parties.
  • “If they slap you with an open-handed slap, then they are restoring to you your dignity. Because an open-handed slap is … between equals.” (17:17)
• The real goal: awaken the offender’s conscience and point to shared humanity. (15:51–18:00)

5. The Human Tendency Toward Self-Preservation

• The origins of offense and defensive behaviors are rooted in Genesis 3. Adam and Eve’s reaction to sin introduces self-consciousness, self-centeredness, and self-preservation into relationships.
• “We are all self conscious, we are self centered, and we all are trying to save ourselves because we don’t like being vulnerable.” (21:10)
• The response to offense often involves blame-shifting, shame, and hiding.

6. Escaping Shame & Living Forgiven

• The hosts and Yana distinguish between forgiving oneself and living as forgiven by God.
  • “Nowhere in scripture do we see anybody forgiving themselves. … Your work isn’t to forgive yourself. Your work is to live forgiven.” (27:39, 27:53)
• Ongoing shame is self-absorbed and keeps people from true repentance and reconciliation.
• “Shame, condemnation, all those things—it is self orienting. … That self pity keeps you from repentance.” (30:56–31:25)

7. Jesus’ Forgiveness of Judas as a Model

• A deep dive into John 13 reveals Jesus’ washing of Judas’ feet and sharing communion as radical acts of forgiveness, even toward betrayal.
  • “Not only did Jesus wash this man’s feet, but he allowed him to participate in communion. … He offers Judas communion again.” (36:50)
• Jesus’ security in the Father, his purpose, and his future empowers him to forgive from a place of freedom:
  • “He’s not forgiving for freedom. He’s forgiving from a place of freedom.” (40:33)
• Practical note: The pain of offense is temporary in light of eternity with God. (41:06)

8. The Work & Process of Forgiveness

• Forgiveness requires deliberate steps:
  1. Honest acknowledgment of the offense before God and with trusted people.
  2. Invite God to search your own heart for idolatry, unrealistic expectations, or self-centered motives.
  3. Decide before God to forgive and not retaliate (forgiveness is a decision, not a feeling).
  4. Humbly confront the offender when appropriate, without expecting a certain response.
  5. Discern whether reconciliation is possible (which is distinct from forgiveness).
  6. Restoration of trust is gradual and must be earned.
• “You can’t forgive something that you’re not willing to honestly acknowledge.” (46:43)
• Forgiveness ≠ trust. Forgiveness ≠ reconciliation. (53:02–53:59)

9. Boundaries & Restructuring Relationships

• The Bible allows for setting boundaries and even ending relationships if repentance is lacking.
• “If they still don’t listen, he says, treat them like a gentile or a tax collector.” (58:06)
• Decision to limit or redefine access to an offender should be made with spiritual counsel.
  • “I didn’t make that decision by myself. … I had other people speaking into whether or not it was healthy for me to continue.” (60:08)

10. Ghosting & the Silent Treatment

• Ghosting is framed as unloving and undignified; avoidance may stem from an unwillingness to be vulnerable.
  • “When we ghost people … we aren’t loving them well.” (62:08)
• The silent treatment is a form of vengeance, withholding oneself as punishment. (64:41–64:54)

11. The Gospel Witness of Forgiveness

• Every act of forgiveness puts the gospel on display, inviting others to glimpse God’s mercy through us.
  • “Every time we forgive someone, we proclaim the gospel. We put the mercy of Christ on display.” (65:14)
• Forgiveness is central for the health of churches, marriages, friendships, and families.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If forgiveness feels out of reach, reach for the cross—the cross that saved you.”
  — Yana Conner [42:14]

• “Your work isn’t to forgive yourself. Your work is to live forgiven.”
  — Yana [27:53]

• “When we are wrestling with forgiving ourselves, we are actually the ones who are bringing charges up against ourselves … partnering with Satan in that condemnation.”
  — Yana [28:34]

• “He’s not forgiving for freedom. He’s forgiving from a place of freedom. … He knows that God’s going to pay the debt.”
  — Yana [40:33]

• “Forgiveness is the merciful decision to release an offender of their debt and to not retaliate against them in anger.”
  — Yana [50:33]

• “Forgiveness also doesn’t equal trusting someone fully again. … It’s not actually wise for you to continue to trust them in that way.”
  — Yana [53:59]

• “When we ghost people … we aren’t loving them well.”
  — Yana [62:08]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & Yana’s background: [00:40–04:43]
• Spiritual struggle of writing about forgiveness: [06:19–10:19]
• Shalom-making, peacemaking, and justice: [11:47–15:51]
• Turning the other cheek, Jesus' context: [15:51–19:25]
• The root of offense: self-consciousness and preservation: [19:25–22:21]
• Shame, repentance, and self-forgiveness: [26:01–30:17]
• The example of Jesus & Judas, forgiving betrayal: [32:24–41:19]
• How to move through practical forgiveness work: [46:25–53:59]
• Forgiveness, reconciliation, trust, and boundaries: [55:07–61:56]
• Ghosting and the silent treatment: [62:00–64:54]
• Forgiveness as gospel witness (closing charge): [65:14–66:24]

Tone & Delivery

The conversation is deeply honest, theologically rich, and frequently peppered with empathy, conviction, and humor. The Perrys’ trademark banter and authenticity create both vulnerability and encouragement, making difficult spiritual truths accessible and actionable.

Conclusion

Forgiveness, according to Yana and the Perrys, is “a labor of love” that is not optional for followers of Christ. It’s a declaration of the gospel, the practical outworking of peace, and a means by which communities and relationships can truly heal and thrive. The episode dismantles the myth that forgiveness must always be easy, quick, or result in restored intimacy, while also insisting that pursuing it is essential—both for personal health and gospel witness.