Everybody Got a Lil Peter in Them

Summary

With The Perrys Podcast — Episode Summary

Episode Title: Everybody Got a Lil Peter in Them
Hosts: Preston Perry & Jackie Hill Perry
Date: March 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

In “Everybody Got a Lil Peter in Them,” Preston and Jackie Hill Perry dive deep into the life and character of the apostle Peter, drawing powerful parallels between his biblical journey and the everyday experiences and struggles of Christians today. With their characteristic blend of humor, candor, and theological depth, the Perrys unpack Peter’s impulsiveness, pride, failure, restoration, and ultimate transformation—inviting listeners to see themselves in his story and to embrace God’s grace in the midst of failure.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Relating to Peter: Everyone Has a Little Peter in Them

• Jackie kicks off the main theme: “I want to make—I want to start off by saying, I don't know if this is a bold statement, but I truly believe it in some way, shape or form. Every Christian is Peter.” (05:31)
• Peter is often criticized for his impulsiveness, but Preston and Jackie argue that most Christians mirror his blend of passion, boldness, and human frailty.

2. Peter’s Impulsiveness and Faith

• Preston shares his favorite Peter story: the miraculous catch of fish and Peter’s response of fear and repentance when recognizing Jesus’ divinity. (07:40–09:09)
  • Preston: “That quick repentance to the revelation of who was in the boat… says a lot. Not necessarily about his God animates character. So his repentance is a fruit of the Holy Spirit's work.”

3. Peter’s Leadership & Vulnerability to Mistakes

• Peter’s boldness and attempts to lead, even to the extent of rebuking Jesus (Matthew 16).
• Jackie: “Sometimes our natural leadership can get in the way… you can end up being used by Satan.” (16:27)
• Peter’s misunderstanding of Jesus’ mission—mistaking messianic victory for earthly triumph (15:22–19:25).

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Notable Quote

“Peter wasn’t being malicious. But… when you trust in yourself more than you trust in the God who called you… you can end up being used by Satan.”
—Jackie (16:27)

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4. Our Strengths, Weaknesses, and How Satan Can Use Both

• The Perrys discuss how both strengths (leadership, action, compassion) and weaknesses can be co-opted by the enemy if not surrendered to God.
  • Preston: “Satan will use your gifts.” (20:49)
  • Peter tried to protect Jesus in his own power, but was unintentionally channeling the enemy's agenda.

5. Human Perspective vs. God’s Perspective

• The struggle to align our minds and hearts with God’s ways, especially concerning suffering and obedience.
  • Preston: “You are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man… And that's a struggle for all of us.” (24:10 & 25:02)

6. Peter’s Denial: Pride, Ignorance, and Fear

• Peter’s assertion that he’d never deny Jesus—contradicted soon after by his threefold denial.
  • Preston: “Mind you, this is God in flesh.… This isn’t like a possibility. You will all fall away.” (27:06)
  • Jackie: “We can overstate our allegiance to Jesus and we can have not a really clear reality about the state of our heart.” (30:58)

Notable Moment

“There is no good thing that dwells in my flesh. There is much possibility in you when it comes to wickedness.”
—Preston (32:52)

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7. Peter’s Repentance: From Remorse to Restoration

• After denying Christ, Peter is broken and weeps bitterly.
  • Jackie: “Peter did not know his own heart. The reality is God does allow us to fall so that we can have a more accurate depiction about the state of our heart.” (35:13–37:44)
• God’s warnings are an opportunity for escape, but pride can block the way.

Timestamped Insight

• Preston (39:58): “The warning through word, that warning through people, that warning through dreams was your protection, but thought better. You denied the protection that I gave you.”
• Jackie: “When Peter said, if they all deny you, Jesus, I'm rocking with you. Peter wasn't lying. He was just deceived about himself.” (38:46)

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8. Restoration After Failure

• Jesus proactively makes provision for Peter’s restoration: “You will deny me… but afterwards, I will return and meet you guys in Galilee.” (45:21)
• The scene at the Sea of Tiberias (John 21): symbolic repetition of Peter’s original call.
  • Jackie: “A lot of times the Lord wants to draw us back to Himself by reminding us of the day that he first called us.” (57:53)

Notable Quote

“It often reminds us that our works without Jesus are dark and ineffective. But blessed be to God that he meets us in the morning.”
—Jackie (58:07)

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9. Peter’s Restoration: “Do You Love Me?”

• John 21, Jesus asks Peter three times if he loves Him—mirroring Peter’s three denials (66:24–69:41).
  • The use of different Greek words for “love” (agape and philia) underscores Peter’s newfound humility and honesty about his heart.
  • Jackie: “For the first time we see Peter is not overstating his allegiance to Jesus.… God can't use us when we don't know ourselves.” (68:08)

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10. From Denial to Leadership and Boldness

• After restoration, Peter’s leadership is revived and transformed—catapulting him into powerful ministry in Acts.
  • Jackie: “His story wasn’t over after his failure.”
  • Preston: “Where you are now, the failures you've had, the denials you've had, do not have to govern how you end. You can actually end and endure in a way that far exceeds where you are now.” (73:10)

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11. The Big Takeaway

• Christians should expect to encounter themselves in Peter: bold, sometimes overconfident, failing—but also capable of deep repentance and restoration by Jesus.
  • Jackie: “We all like Peter. We really all, all like this dude… The goal is that we all be like Jesus.” (73:56–74:04)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• [05:31] Jackie: “Every Christian is Peter.”
• [16:27] Jackie: “Sometimes our natural leadership can get in the way and can make us put our foot in our mouth, even with the Lord.”
• [20:49] Preston: “Satan will use your gifts.”
• [25:02] Preston: “To have God's perspective about pain, to have God's perspective about suffering… that’s a struggle for all of us.”
• [32:52] Preston: “There is no good thing that dwells in my flesh.”
• [38:46] Jackie: “He thought he was.… We don't be lying. It's just like, God is like, I know you think I know you believe that, but I know you more than you know you. I'm trying to reveal something to you, your heart. Peter, you don't love me like that.”
• [57:53] Jackie: “A lot of times that the Lord wants to draw us back to Himself by reminding us of the day that he first called us.”
• [68:08] Jackie: “For the first time we see Peter is not overstating his allegiance to Jesus.… God can't use us when we don't know ourselves.”
• [73:55] Jackie: “A restored saint is a. Is a powerful saint.”

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Important Timestamps

• 05:31 — “Every Christian is Peter” — episode’s thematic core introduced.
• 16:27 — Jackie’s insight on leadership getting in the way.
• 25:02 — Preston on the struggle to set our minds on God’s perspective.
• 27:06–30:58 — Discussion of Peter’s denial and its implications for leaders.
• 35:13–39:58 — The danger of not knowing your real heart; God’s loving discipline.
• 45:21 — Jesus provides assurance even before Peter’s failure.
• 57:53–60:18 — Restoration scene, echoing Peter’s original call.
• 66:24–69:41 — “Do you love me?”—the heart of Peter’s restoration.
• 73:10–73:55 — Final reflections on restoration, growth, and leadership.

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Final Takeaway

This episode is a rich, honest exploration of how Peter’s struggles mirror our own, and a hopeful reminder that vulnerability, repentance, and God’s persistent grace are the way forward. The Perrys challenge listeners to recognize both their Peter-like weaknesses and the restorative love of Jesus, moving from remorse to bold, humble service.

“We all like Peter. The goal is that we all be like Jesus.” — Jackie & Preston (74:04)

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Transcript

[Preston]

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[Jackie]

Why you gotta sound like the saints in the end? Church moment when you do this, it's

[Preston]

the Saints in the end.

[Jackie]

You sound like one of those women who be trying to get peppermint out of people's mouth at church.

[Preston]

It's the Saints in the A. It's the vibrato. You ain't liked it?

[Jackie]

No, I didn't.

[Preston]

I didn't like it.

[Jackie]

I like your hat, though.

[Preston]

I had to remember what I had on. I was gonna ask you about yours. How do you feel about the Bears? You sad, about to cry. Your eyes look moist.

[Jackie]

Why did you moisture? Why did you have to bring that up?

[Preston]

You have a bear's hat on.

[Jackie]

You didn't have to talk about.

[Preston]

You have a bear's. Does everybody see you got a bear's hat? He has a bear hat. Bears hat. So apparently you wanted me to see it.

[Jackie]

I didn't want you to talk about us not being in the playoffs anymore.

[Preston]

I didn't even say all that.

[Jackie]

You said, how do I feel about the Bears.

[Preston]

I didn't say it the last time

[Jackie]

I was downstairs watching this game.

[Preston]

Wow.

[Jackie]

You saw how emotional I was.

[Preston]

You are really triggered. You're triggered.

[Jackie]

You know what?

[Preston]

We can process that. Let's unpack.

[Jackie]

No, you know what? I'm just gonna say this.

[Preston]

Cause usually trig, like, it's.

[Jackie]

I'm just say this.

[Preston]

It's a team.

[Jackie]

Cause you being used and it's not by the Lord, bucko.

[Preston]

It's a team. It's a team.

[Jackie]

It's a team. We had a great season. A season that I'm proud of. We got a dog of a quarterback, Caleb Williams. I don't care what color his fingernails is. He can paint his fingernails French blue every day. That boy can throw.

[Preston]

Never heard of him.

[Jackie]

Yeah, our quarterback, he paint his nails and like, you know, our rival team be talking about his nails. I don't care.

[Preston]

So he's androgynous.

[Jackie]

He get all the French tips he want. That boy can throw.

[Preston]

So he didn't throw. Y' all into The Super Bowl.

[Jackie]

He can throw. But next year, we going to the Super Bowl. And when he do, I'mma pay for his French tips. Get your toes done too. I don't care.

[Preston]

Preston got him an Apple Watch. The last podcast, it just kept beeping. It's like. You know you could pause the notifications, don't you?

[Jackie]

I just got it. I already know. Yeah, I gotta go to the little app.

[Preston]

Yeah. Is your phone on D and D? It should connect. It should do what your phone does.

[Jackie]

I wonder how many he got him.

[Preston]

A little gold band. Look at him. Apple watch. Rolex. Apple watch.

[Jackie]

So I went out. Yeah, I went out to eat with one of the dudes that I mentored other day. And apparently he communicated to you that I only answered my text correct. And you said, I'm gonna get Preston to Apple Watch.

[Preston]

I've been saying that for years.

[Jackie]

So when I came to dinner the other night, he said, jackie finally got you the Apple Watch. That's why you've been responding to me.

[Preston]

Cause Preston, you can text this man and say, I am stuck in Antarctica. He's not gonna see it. But people come. Cause he has his read receipts on. That's the thing. And so his read receipts on. And so people come to me, like, did Preston see my text? I promise you, he opened it and did not look at it. Like, he just opened it, but he didn't read it.

[Jackie]

Sometimes I'd be tired of seeing all those notifications up there. So I just open them and just close them, open and close.

[Preston]

And people be asking you for how to not get divorced. And you just be like.

[Jackie]

And this is the thing, though. You know why that's really sad?

[Preston]

Why?

[Jackie]

Because I really care.

[Preston]

I know you care.

[Jackie]

I care.

[Preston]

I know you care.

[Jackie]

People be thinking, I don't care, but

[Preston]

you're overwhelmed and overstimulated, and so you're just knocking off the numbers. And I have to come in and say, I promise you charge it to his head and his heart. But not, like, mostly, I was bragging

[Jackie]

about you last night in Alabama.

[Preston]

Okay.

[Jackie]

Because I was telling. I was like, you don't know how much of a blessing it is to have somebody on this earth that really know you.

[Preston]

Yeah, he don't mean nothing by it. Because I'd be like, I personally go talk to Jackie. I'm more offended than all of them because when I call you six or seven times, like that time I was on the treadmill, and they said that Sage was running down the hall, yelling, and you. You had your phone on Dnd I said, what if I was dying?

[Jackie]

I would have been.

[Preston]

What if I was on my way to being deceased?

[Jackie]

I would have been there.

[Preston]

I had to get off that treadmill.

[Jackie]

I believe it by faith. I would have been there. The Lord would have let me see the text, would have said, pressing. Look at your phone. I would have been there.

[Preston]

That's how you sound?

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

Okay, so we want to talk about Peter today. We want to dialogue about Kepha. That's what they said in Passion of Christ. Say it again. Kepha. Is it y', all, man, Passion of the Christ. When they say Kepha, I don't know why I heard, because when we. When we read the Hebrew, it say Cephas. They. That's the name of the Hebrew.

[Jackie]

I want to make. I want to start off by saying, I don't know if this is a bold statement, but I truly believe it in some way, shape or form. Every Christian is Peter.

[Preston]

Mm. We're all.

[Jackie]

This guy Peter is often. He's often talked about. Sometimes I feel like he's dissed a little more than he should be dissed. But we're all him. And I think that his life is very. My favorite person in the scriptures in the past to study has been Paul. But Peter studying his life, I mean, you.

[Preston]

Peter's interesting.

[Jackie]

He's very interesting.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

Our old pasty often compared me to Peter.

[Preston]

Yeah. Cause you are very bold, passionate, impulsive, anxious. I think all. All the things. You know, I think what's interesting is I'm bring a passion into Christ again because I watched it like two weeks ago and I was like, why The Passion of the Christ, Peter is like 48. And then like the chosen passion, Peter got muscles and is a solid 27. Like, I was like, who's decided? Because if I'm not mistaken, the disciples were young, so I don't know. I think the Passion of the Christ, Peter. I don't like to envision Peter that way. I prefer to envision him as like the Peter and the chosen cause Peter and the chosen. He gives like. I don't know, where was they at? Where was they from? I don't know. Middle Eastern thug.

[Jackie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Preston]

He gives like, I'm a follow Jesus, but if I gotta catch these fish to make these bucks, no worries.

[Jackie]

Yeah, I like the chosen's Peter. I think they did a really good job. Of all the characters on. On the chosen, I love what they did with Matthew. I love what they did with Peter. Yeah, but. But when you think about Peter, what. What's the first thing that comes to mind when you think about Peter, everything

[Preston]

I said, you are.

[Jackie]

Okay. What, like what are some impulsive, passionate, anxious,

[Preston]

bold. Yeah, I just, but I, I, I'll say the scenario that comes to mind is, is when he is fishing with his brother. I think Andrew was his brother. Yes, yes. He's fishing with Andrew in the boat. And it says that they were fishing all night. Jesus asked to use the boat. I might be confusing stories, but I believe Jesus got into the boat and was like, hey, put the net on the other side. And he like, hey, man, we've been doing this all night.

[Jackie]

All night.

[Preston]

And not only have we been doing this all night, we been doing this. So we know that if the fish ain't came all night, they not gonna come. And Jesus is like, put, put the net out. And he like, okay, at your word, I'mma do it. He do it. That thing just fills with fish. And then Peter's response isn't gratefulness at the catch.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

It's fear at the person in the boat because he has a cognizance of what just happened that says, this can't be just a man in my boat. And he's like, oh my goodness. Like, he confesses his sinfulness. So I think that quick repentance to the revelation of who was in the boat is how I imagine him. Cause it's, to me, I just feel like that says a lot. Not necessarily about his God animates character. So his repentance is a fruit of the Holy Spirit's work. But I think his character is saying, like, nah, like you, you something else.

[Jackie]

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Cause I think we talk about Peter, we talk about his impulsiveness. I've heard people name him the foot shaped mouth disciple because he always put his foot in his mouth. That's weird stuff like that, because he often did put his foot in his mouth. But when you look at Peter, you start to understand some of the things that the Lord told him to do is like, it's a reason why he doubted. It's a reason why, you know. But while at the same time, if you look at his life, he did display great character. Because even this passage that you're talking about, Jesus was teaching them, you know, and then afterwards he says, you know, put out your nets to the deep for catch. And Peter, Peter being like, bold person, he's like, I don't want to do that. We fished all night. But after they caught all of the fish, you know, he was afraid. But then immediately after that, it says that Peter and not only Peter, but his brothers, they dropped everything, abandoned their boats and they followed him. Right. And so I think that we have to understand that Peter's faith was like evident, you know what I'm saying, in the scriptures as well. Not just him being a loudmouth, bold person who put his foot in the. He had great faith and yeah, so that's the reason why I really respect Peter a whole lot.

[Preston]

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[Jackie]

And this is not just for women. Men's skin matter too.

[Preston]

Yeah, we kind of want a dialogue about the latter. Not the latter end of his life, but the latter end of Peter's role and in the Gospels, just because I think his. What he displays in these narratives can really find a lot of symmetry and probably what is displayed in our own particular lives. And I think one text that was really intriguing to me earlier, probably last year is Matthew 16. And I'm going just read some of it because I feel like it's helpful. Matthew 16 starting at verse 13. Now, when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, who do people say that the Son of man is? And they said, some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets. He said to them, but who do you say that I am? Simon Peter replied, you are the Christ, the Messiah, the son of the living God. And Jesus answered him, blessed are you, Simon bar Jonah, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you, but my Father, who is in heaven. Keep that in your mind, and I tell you, you are Peter. This rock, I will build my church. And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Keep that in your mind, and I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. Whatever you loose on earth shall be loose in heaven. And he strictly charged the disciples not tell. So there in Caesarea Philippi, Jesus is like, hey, who do people say that I am? Elijah, John the Baptist? Peter, quick to talk is like, you are the Messiah. You are the Christ. If anybody knows anything about the Torah, they have been looking for this messiah, prophetic, kingly figure for a very long time. And it isn't purely that Peter has reasoned his way into this understanding and awareness. It is that it has been revealed to him, like he is seeing who Jesus is by proxy of God's revelation. Then God commissions him and tells him, you know what? On this rock, I will build my church. He establishes him as kind of a fundamental foundational feature in the church that God is going to build. When Christ Jesus resurrects, then he tells him, I'm gonna give you the kingdom of heave bound on earth. Da da da. And a lot of Catholicism. I think Catholicism has its roots in this text because they say that Peter is the first pope. We're not going to go there. But yeah. So why that's significant to me is because right after this, Starting in verse 21, it says from that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes and be killed. Mind you, imagine you was just imagine so who you want to be, Bartholomew, because don't nobody be messing with Bartholomew. Let's say you, Bartholomew, you with 11 people. One of them is a traitor. You don't even know that yet. And y' all accessoria Philippi in front of all this idol worship and stuff like that. And then Jesus is like, hey, who you say I am? And you like, oh, I think he Elijah. That's what you said. Some people say you Elijah. And then you hear Peter, like, no, you the Messiah. And then you sitting there like, oh, my goodness, my rabbi is the Christ, my rabbi is the Messiah. And let's just say you have perceptions and frameworks about what a messiah is that's still present in your mind that you're going to. You're going to overcome overthrow wrong Rome, that you're going to set up some earthly kingship, that you're Going to do something here presently. But then God takes you somewhere. Jesus takes you somewhere. Whether that's y' all walking or y' all going to the other room, I don't know. And he says, oh, by the way, I'm gonna die.

[Jackie]

Yeah, you're gonna. You.

[Preston]

You're gonna be like, I don't understand. You just said that you're the. Like the Messiah.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

And then you're telling me that you're gonna be killed. Like, I'm confused about that. But because you're not Peter, you're not gonna say that out loud. Peter is, though. And it says, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, far be it from you, Lord, this shall never, never, never.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

Never happened to you. Let me ask you this.

[Jackie]

I think I know what you're about to ask me.

[Preston]

I'mma give you the questions that will lead to the interpretation of the text that I saw.

[Jackie]

Okay?

[Preston]

Okay. So when you consider what God has revealed to Peter, and when you consider how God has commissioned Peter, how do you think that's influencing his rebuke of Jesus? Huh?

[Jackie]

That's a good question. When I consider what God has revealed

[Preston]

to Peter and what God has commissioned,

[Jackie]

one, I think. I think it's very obvious that we would look in the scriptures that Peter was a leader, right? He was a leader even amongst his brothers. And so I think that's one of the reasons why God called him, because he was a leader. And I think Peter often. I don't want to assume on the text, right? But I do think that Peter was always trying to lead, always trying to direct, even his Messiah, you know what I'm saying? I think Peter often shows us that sometimes our natural leadership can get in the way and can make us put our foot in our mouth, even with the Lord. It's like, you're a leader, but you're. I'm God. Right? You know what I'm saying? And so I think Peter wasn't being malicious. But I think that when you don't trust. When you trust in yourself more than you trust in the God who called you, when you trust in your own resources, when you trust in your own leadership ability, when you trust in your own capabilities, you can end up being used by Satan. And so I think this is the reason why what you about to read next is what Jesus said to him. Cause it's like, Peter, you don't even real. You might not even realize.

[Preston]

Correct.

[Jackie]

That you're being you. Right? I don't know if I'm Getting ahead.

[Preston]

But yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think Jesus has just said, he calls him Peter, which means rock.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

On this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And so there might be a sense in which Peter is getting ahead of himself by trying to prevent what he thinks is the gates of hell prevailing. Oof. Right. Two, God has just revealed himself as the Christ as the Messiah. And so there's also, there's this conception of Christ as Messiah that Peter is still functioning in. Peter does not see Christ as the Messiah of the Scriptures. He sees Christ as the Messiah of the misinterpretation of these Scriptures. And so he feels like he has to protect Jesus instead of actually obeying and surrendering to what Jesus says is the will of God.

[Jackie]

That's good.

[Preston]

So then God, it's ironic then that when he's rebuked, it's like, yeah, the gates of hell won't prevail against it. But even his rebuke was hellish because it was demonic. The reason it was from a demonic source is that I shared this in the sermon I did at Passion, which is that one of the first. Well, not yet. The temptations we see of Christ in the wilderness is Satan coming and saying, if you are the Son of God, if you have this identity, then you should turn these stones, bones into bread, meaning you should use your divine power to make your suffering a bit easier. Peter is coming across and communicating the same thing. If you are the Christ, then you should not suffer. Yeah, that's what Satan said.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

And so Satan is low key, influencing Peter's perspectives and Peter's words. And because he is talking to God, God recognizes whose voice is actually coming through Peter's mouth.

[Jackie]

And so I think, because the implications of him not suffering is not only

[Preston]

disobedience to God, but no conquering of Satan, no conquering of death, no conquering of sin. You have no idea what you are actually saying to Jesus.

[Jackie]

Yeah, right.

[Preston]

So if he doesn't suffer, you're going to hell. Peter, what are you doing?

[Jackie]

Can I say something real quick? Don't lose your strength of thought, because I'm teaching.

[Preston]

Good.

[Jackie]

But I think what Peter often shows us is that sometimes our natural how God has built us can get in the way of God's glory if it's not filtered through him.

[Preston]

Explain more.

[Jackie]

Because Peter was a bold, you know, like truth telling, you know, I'm saying take action type of person. Right. God wants to use that for his Glory, but if it's not filtered and tainted, you know, like, you know, guided by the Lord, it can get in the way of his glory. In the same way, somebody's compassion.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

You have people that's a little bit too compassionate. Right. And so, like, you're, you're overly, like. I don't think you could be overly compassionate, but you could be compassionate in a way that doesn't allow people to repent.

[Preston]

Because Satan.

[Jackie]

Right.

[Preston]

Satan will use your gifts.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

Because even when you look at Moses, before Moses meets the bush, Moses is trying to lead and trying to do justice by killing the Egyptian so as to protect the other Hebrew. And you see this premature, ungodly, unrefined, unsanctified way of him acting out the way God built him. But it's when he meets God in the burning bush that that justice is actually clarified and refined.

[Jackie]

That's good.

[Preston]

And so I think with Peter, like you're saying Peter is speaking first, Peter is leading. Peter thinks he is protecting something and guiding something, but Satan is actually using the thing that God actually has called him to do. Does that make sense?

[Jackie]

Yeah, Peter was about that action, but that action needed to be molded y by the Lord.

[Preston]

And it's not only satanic what he says, but it's also human because God says you're not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man. And I think, man, we just always, we talked about it in a podcast about suffering. I don't know if that goes before this one or after this one, but man doesn't like suffering. We think it's a hindrance to glory a lot of times unless we look at the scriptures. And so it makes sense for him to be like, no, you're not going to die. You're the messiah. Fire. You're the king. You're supposed to reign forever. And it's like, no, like the, the, the, the project of God is that that rain comes through death, not, you know, he's skipping across to be exalted.

[Jackie]

That's good. That's good.

[Preston]

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[Jackie]

I love the fact that Magic Spoon came out with treats because their cereal is really good. It's packed with a lot of protein so you can eat it and go to the gym. And so the fact that they have treats now is super dope. I'm looking forward to trying it.

[Preston]

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[Jackie]

What else do you see about Peter? Do you want to stay in this text? Because it's a lot I think we could say about Peter.

[Preston]

I mean, sheesh. I'll say this. I think one thing I kind of wanna land on a little bit is again, Peter's perspective for you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man and how we like Peter do the same thing. You know what I'm saying? And so I think with Peter, he's been with Jesus for three years. Yeah, he's been walking with the Lord. He most likely went to the synagogues, did all the stuff. But his mind wasn't set on God. Like what God wanted and what God said. His mind was set on the things of man. And I think that's a struggle for all of us is to have God's perspective about life.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

You know what I'm saying? To have God's perspective about pain, to have God's perspective about suffering. To have God's perspective.

[Jackie]

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. One thing I think about when I think about Peter is it's hard for me to think about Peter and not Think about even us as leaders, Christian leaders, because the text doesn't necessarily say this, but this is me wondering of how much Peter putting his foot in his mouth was his attempt to be that leader. Right? Yeah, like. Because, like, you know, for example, when Jesus tells them in the Scriptures, I think it's John where he says, you know, the shepherd will be striking, all the sheep will scatter, basically predicting that when I die, all of my sheep, all of my disciples, that y' all gonna abandon them. And Peter was the first one to say, jesus, if they all fall away, I'll never fall away. If they all deny you, I'll never deny you. You know. And when Jesus said, I'm leaving, he like, why can't I go with you? And then Jesus responds and says, well, I' you can't go. And then what? Peter says, jesus, I'll follow you to prison and to death.

[Preston]

What text is that?

[Jackie]

It is Luke 22:33. Jesus foretells Peter's denial. Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you that he may sift you like wheat. But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail.

[Preston]

Where is it when Jesus. Peter actually says that he's not going to deny Jesus?

[Jackie]

Oh, that's when he says. That's when Jesus says that all of you will fall away from me.

[Preston]

Yes. Mark 14:26. And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives, and Jesus said to them, you will all fall away. Mind you, this is God in flesh.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

He's not a liar.

[Jackie]

Right.

[Preston]

This isn't like a possibility. You will all fall away. For it is written, I will strike the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered. But after I am raised up, I will go before you to Galilee. Peter said to him, even though they all fall away, they might deny you

[Jackie]

threw his homeboys under the bus.

[Preston]

Hey. They might not trust you.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

As for me, I ain't gonna fall away. I don't know what you. I don't know what you're talking about. God incarnate. And Jesus said to him, truly, I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows twice, you will deny me three times. And he said it again, but he said emphatically, I understand what you saying, but if I must die with you, I'mma die with you. I will not deny you.

[Jackie]

But I want to. I want us to pay attention to the text. And this is the reason why I said that. I think Peter reminds us that sometimes, us leaders, we be doing the most because we. Because it's not only God we're trying to honor, but notice how right after Peter said that, emphatically, all the other disciples also repeated what he said. They followed Peter. Yes. We will not deny you.

[Preston]

That's good.

[Jackie]

Right? And so, like, I think Peter, being that leader, often put his foot in his mouth because, you know, maybe he felt the pressure to be a leader amongst the disciples, because he was. Maybe he felt like I had to prove my. My allegiance, my. You know, my alliance to. To the Lord. But notice how the scripture literally says, not only did Jesus tell. So you have the Messiah telling you this, but he said it is written, correct.

[Preston]

This in the text. He.

[Jackie]

He's reminding you this in the book. He's reminding you of scripture.

[Preston]

This is prophecy. And you still saying, nah, you like, man, Isaiah A. Know what he's talking about, right? I don't know what text these represent.

[Jackie]

Let me see.

[Preston]

Do we got a little cross references? D. What's the D? Zechariah. Yeah, Zechariah don't know what he's talking about.

[Jackie]

Yeah. Like he said, truly, truly. So you could put blank on this. It is written, Peter. Y' all will scatter.

[Preston]

I think verse 31 makes me think of Acts, though, when he wouldn't sit with the Gentiles because the Jewish leaders showed up, and how it said that even Barnabas was led to do the same. How Peter cowardice also influenced the other disciples to be cowardly. And so how Judas, Peter's pride is leading the disciples to be just as proud. And I think that is an element of leadership that is always kind of. It's a little irritating to feel responsible for the behavior of other people.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

You know, to know that you kind of set a standard for what is good and what is right and what is true.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

I think we both feel that when it comes to just how we manage everything, whether that's as parents, whether that's as public figures, whether that's as people who have some type of people be listening to us on podcasts and kind of always being like, how will this serve people? How will this influence the way people see God, People see the text, people see politics. Even our conversations on our podcast are dictated by that responsibility.

[Jackie]

Absolutely.

[Preston]

You know what I'm saying? And it is, in fact, a responsibility. And so I think when people have leadership positions in the church, in the home, in the world, on your job, on your campus, I do think you always have to be mindful of, if I can say, I'm a die with you and I won't Deny you. And that goes against what God just told me. There's a possibility that my influence will cause people to do the same thing. And I don't want to do that.

[Jackie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, I just wonder how much of Peter's putting his foot in his mouth saying that he would never deny Jesus was his attempt or him just being afraid to, to be human. Like, you're a leader, but you're also a fallen human being. And if God is telling you this is gonna happen, it's gonna happen, you know what I'm saying? And I think that sometimes us as leaders, we can put so much pressure on ourselves and we can overstate our allegiance to Jesus and we can have not a really clear reality about the state of our heart, you know what I'm saying? Because of it. And so I think that's Peter and I think we've all been guilty.

[Preston]

This is important because. Well, one, let me say one thing and then come back. Verse 32 kind of reveals God's 32 and 33 reveals God's patience with Peter, you know, because Peter has just walked in pride. The Bible says that God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. And yet even though he is being foolish, even though he just led the disciples to do the same foolery, he still took him with him to pray. And not everybody but him, James and John. And so the Lord is still inviting him into a very intimate space with him, even in light of his immaturity.

[Jackie]

That's beautiful.

[Preston]

Yeah, so I think that's encouraging. But what I was going to say is I think verse 30 and 31 with Peter like, or 29:31, I'm not going to deny you. I think this is why the Bible says, where is that at? Where it's like take heed lest you fall or something like that. Where it's like, don't ever be so confident in your own so called godliness where you feel like it's impossible for you to do that thing.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

You know what I'm saying? I will never do that. I think at that point where you start to declare never over yourself, you're thinking way too highly of your, like you thinking a little. There is no good thing that dwells in my flesh. There is much possibility in you when it comes to wickedness.

[Jackie]

Yeah, it is, it is. That's good. That's good. And when you get to Peter's denial, it actually makes it even worse because it's like not only did you deny the Lord, but he Told you this was going to happen.

[Preston]

And not only did you deny, but you kept doing it.

[Jackie]

Yeah. You did it three times.

[Preston]

Yeah. Because that's how sin works. Yeah. So you over here, like, I'll never watch porn. And then you watch an image, and then you watch a video. And now you subscribing to stuff that denial. Sin is progressive.

[Jackie]

Yes.

[Preston]

There's a quote from John Owen where he says sin's goal is the uttermost, meaning. It is never supposed to just stop with lust. It's supposed to end in adultery. The uttermost. And so Peter, he denies him once and now sin, like. And then twice. Because we all know it gets easier.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

Like, when you don't repent immediately, that thing gets easier. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jackie]

Because I. And I. And I often want to try to put myself in Peter's shoes and in disciples shoes. Because the reality of Jesus dying, and it's kind of how I grew up in the hood. Like, we know we see shootings every single day, but you. The reality of somebody dying, that's close to you. It's not really a thing until it happens. And so Jesus is at the courtyard of the high priest, you know, being judged, and he, like, this is really real. Now. He's in the. The scripture tells us he's at a. At a charcoal fire, warming his hands, and a lady notices him and says, ain't you the one to be running with Jesus?

[Preston]

The servant girl.

[Jackie]

The servant girl. Ain't you the one to be running with Jesus? And Peter was like. Like, nah, that ain't me. I don't know that man. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, think about the fear. At that time, I think fear took control. You know what I'm saying? And Peter didn't know his heart. And Peter didn't know his own heart, but he happened to have a rabbi.

[Preston]

Say that again.

[Jackie]

Peter did not know his own heart.

[Preston]

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[Jackie]

As a spoken word poet, I love personification. I think it's really creative for a human to give voice to a non human object. I think it gives us a fresh perspective. It helps us to think about a subject in a way that we never thought about it before. And it just reminds us that God is also a poet. And so I think this book is dope because it challenges us to think about the cross in a way that we haven't thought about the cross before. So kudos to Tim Tebow. This is a dope concept. Really, really enjoy it.

[Preston]

Step inside the story of the crucifixion, hear the witness and experience Easter like never before. With if the Tree Could Speak, available on Amazon. We encourage you to check it out. It's if the Tree Could Speak by Tim Tebow, available on Amazon or see the link in the show notes. Talk about how we cannot know ourselves.

[Jackie]

This is the reason why I don't want to jump ahead. But in and when Peter is restored, don't jump ahead. Okay. I won't.

[Preston]

I won't just talk about the ignorance we can have of our own hearts.

[Jackie]

Because.

[Preston]

And let me prime you. Let me prime you. One of the things I see in a lot of young believers and even on social media, is that overconfidence.

[Jackie]

Yes.

[Preston]

In yourself. And I think the Lord is kind and he protects his own and his sheep. But there's a lot of times where I see they are going to have to fall before they realize how weak they actually are.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

You know what I'm saying? And so I want you to speak to just even as you, as a new believer and as an older believer, how you have to be watchful of yourself to guard yourself against that type of stuff.

[Jackie]

Yeah. Because I think the reality is God does allow us to fall so that we can have a more accurate depiction about the state of our heart. Like he allows us to fall so that he can. Because it's hard for the Lord to use you when you don't see yourself. Huh. And so this is the reason why when you ask the Lord to reveal Himself to you, it's important for you then to ask him, lord, reveal me, me. Because a lot of people like and. And so. So it's not like God didn't want to use Peter, but he just wanted to use Peter when Peter really saw himself. And I think that's what God is telling us all the time. It's like, I want to use you. But because you don't see yourself, because you have unrealistic expectations about your heart, I really can't use you how I want to use you. And so God is not trying to, you know, abuse us or, you know, be mean to us. He just wants us to have a more of a reality. Because here's the thing. When Peter said, if they all deny you, Jesus, I'm rocking with you. Peter wasn't lying. He was just deceived about himself. He was telling the truth. He thought he was. So it wasn't like, he's lying. And that's all of us. We don't be lying. It's just like, God is like, I know you think I know you believe that, but I know you more than you know you. I'm trying to reveal something to you, your heart. Peter, you don't love me like that.

[Preston]

And here's here. Here is the thing. To every temptation, there is a way of escape. Oftentimes the escape comes through warning, correction, conviction, the scriptures. God warned him that all of y' all are gonna fall away. Yeah. So it's not as if there was not a way of escape. And the way of escape would have been faith in what God said. You understand what I'm saying? So it ain't like the Lord is just letting him fall. It's like, no, I warned you.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

That warning through word, that warning through people, that warning through dreams was your protection, but thought better. You thought you knew best. And so you. You denied the protection that I gave you. I think all of us can remember that. So I think Psalm 139, help is helpful here. It's a very scary prayer to pray, but we got to pray it. Oh Lord, you have searched me and known me. You know, when I sit down and when I rise up, you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways even before word is on my tongue. Behold, oh Lord, you know all together. Where is it at, where it says search me and know me and all that type of stuff. Search me, oh God, and know my heart. Try me and know my thoughts and see if there be any grievous way in me and lead me in the way everlasting. This prayer scares me often because it is uncomfortable to yield to God searching and exposing you. It's uncomfortable because you know yourself. You might not know yourself like God knows you, but you do know that there is probably some Stuff in there that you don't want to let go of. There are some ways of thinking that you don't want to relinquish. There's some. There's some. There's some stuff in there that make you feel safe, make you feel comfortable. And, you know, if you just decide to pray that prayer that God is going to answer. But here's the good news. When he answers, it's freedom.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

When he answers is deliverance. When he answers is protection. I'm. I'm much like, I'm. I'm less like Peter and more like Jacob. God got to break me. He got to give me diabetes and do all. Give me four kids and, you know, make people slander me on social media. He got to bust me in the hip all the time to break me because my pride is that dense. You know what I'm saying? And so what I recognized is that it is good news for God to search and know and expose me so that I'm just freer from the things that I think make me safe.

[Jackie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, and I love that. And I think Peter, Peter is a test. Like he, he is evidence that God wants to use us consistently. But when we just living in this reality, that's not true. It's so hard.

[Preston]

It is.

[Jackie]

It's so hard. Yeah, yeah. And I empathize with him.

[Preston]

Cause he was scared. I would have been scared too. Part of me is like, why is you in the courtyard? Why you ain't with everybody? Everybody else scattered and minded they business somewhere else.

[Jackie]

Peter's like, I gotta stay warm.

[Preston]

Yeah, why are you. But you chose to go to the courtyard. You went over to the high priest house for what? Yeah, yeah, to watch. And so maybe you thought you could watch and not deny him or something. You get what I'm saying? Like, he put himself in the position to be tested.

[Jackie]

Yeah, that is true. And, and, and I could imagine the text doesn't say, but he probably just wanted to be with Jesus, you know what I'm saying? Just probably wanted to be with Jesus. But forgetting that Jesus literally said, you will deny me. And this is the perfect place for you to deny him because somebody might recognize you as the one who used to roll with Jesus. You know what I'm saying? And so God in his sovereignty, all set it up so scriptures can be revealed.

[Preston]

Yeah. I think when I studied this text a while back for a talk, I had one of the things that, I don't know, I just, you know, I like to zero in on random parts of text is the rooster crowing. I related it to David after he slept with Bathsheba and how Bathsheba gets pregnant. Like there's a long time between him sleeping with her and Uriah and Nathan, there's time. And when Nathan comes, it's when his conscience is awakened. And I think when you think about denial, denial, denial. We don't know how long that was.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

But there is time before his conscience is awakened. And there is warning in that and mercy in that. The warning is never think that you can open up a door and you won't eventually walk through it. Right. Like there might be. There is temptation in our flesh from the world and from Satan. To think that you can say once and you won't say. Like to think you can deny the Lord one time and it won't become consecutive. That's what I'm trying to say. But there's also mercy in that the Lord will send a rooster. The Lord will send a Nathan to awaken our conscience so that we can be made aware of our sin, repent, and return back to him in fellowship.

[Jackie]

Yeah, that's beautiful. And also, too, I want to just add, on top of what you just said, that even when Jesus first told him, you know, Peter, you will, like all of y', all will fall away. You will deny me. But he didn't immediately follows that by saying, but afterwards, I will return and meet you guys in Galilee. And so Jesus already made provision to come and meet them after they all abandoned him. And so, like, Jesus is displaying here that even in our failure, that he is still coming to meet us.

[Preston]

That's good.

[Jackie]

Even when he knows we're going to fail him and deny him. You know, in the first place, I

[Preston]

want to talk about real quick the end of verse 72, because you probably have people, and I've been in this place a lot where it says, and Peter remembered this after the rooster crow, how Jesus had said to him, before the rooster crows twice, you will deny me three times. Wow. Let me pause. You ever been at church or watching a podcast or listening to a sermon, and the Lord pricks your conscience and awakens you to what you did?

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

By appealing to God's word that you did hide in your heart so you would not sin against him. And you. You respond how he did, and he broke down and wept.

[Jackie]

And wept.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

I guess I want. How would you encourage somebody who's in that place where they have denied him three times, metaphorically speaking.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

And he has sent a rooster crow through some kind of means. And now they're breaking down and they're weeping. How do you move forward?

[Jackie]

You move forward with repentance, real repentance. I think what I think him breaking down and weeping is a form of repentance, brokenness. But in that question, for me, I'm a very visual person, right? And so I just wonder, like, the eye contact that was made with Jesus, like, how did Jesus look at him when he denied him? What did he feel? Did he feel shame? Did he feel guilt? Did he feel remorse? But at the same time, it's like, I think, to answer your question.

[Preston]

Can I say something real quick?

[Jackie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Preston]

My cross reference says, and this must be how the Greek reads, and when he had thought about it, he wept.

[Jackie]

Yeah, when he thought about it. But so like you thought about Jesus words, Peter, before the rooster, cried, cried two times, three times, you would deny me. But also, I think you have to think about Jesus words in the past as well. You have to think about Jesus also saying, I will meet you in Galilee. And so even though you let down Jesus, Jesus already lets you know that he's not gonna leave you. And I think that when we fail Jesus in those moments, it can be so shaming. We could be. We could feel so guilty. We felt like the Lord has, you know, we let the Lord down, but the reality is he hasn't left us. Yeah, he's still with us. You know, he's still communing with us. And I think that pe. Peter had to remember that. And I think we all have to remember that. I mean, we all deny every sin is a denial of Jesus in some way, shape or form. But God is committed to us, and he's never gonna get tired of us running to his throne. He's never gonna say, is you again. He's never gonna say that. Right. And so I think that we have to just remind ourselves that man, we can continually run to the feet of Jesus, we can continually run to the Lord in our time of need. And he's committed to us. And that's the reason why I love Hebrews so much, because it talks about how we have a great high priest who became human to empathize. And so Jesus couldn't experientially empathize with Peter's sin because he was sinless, but he could empathize with his humanity. And so because he has a God who became incarnate, became human like him. It's like, Peter, I know you weak. That's why I'm God. I know you're gonna deny me, but I emotionally empathize with you because I'm human. I know what you're going through. And so because of that, I'm never going to leave you. So I think repentance responding not in shame, not in mere remorse, but repentance.

[Preston]

Yeah. The difference between worldly and godly grief, you know, because worldly grief will lead you into just pitying yourself.

[Jackie]

Yes.

[Preston]

Oh, I'm so simple. I'm so trash. I'm so terrible. And there's an element to pity that is still self centered.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

Because you're considering your own nature, your own problems, your own issues, your own internal world and not looking at the cross. Right. And the enemy is in that too. You know what I'm saying? He will get you in such a cycle and a spiral of shame to keep you from moving forward, to keep you from leaning on Jesus and trusting that the blood works. I was even reading Nehemiah the other day, Nehemiah 8, because I was thinking about that text. The joy of the Lord is my strength, strength. And I was like, where's that text at? I'm thinking it's in the Psalms. It is in Nehemiah 8 where they are over here weeping as they hear the law being read to them. And he starts to say, one of the priests starts to say, stop crying. The joy of the Lord is your strength. Meaning there are time. There's a time to cry, there's a time to weep, and there's a time to wipe your tears and move forward. Why? Because he came, he died, he rose. There is joy to be had in your repentance. Even the ability to repent is a grace that Jesus purchased. That's good. You know what I'm saying? And so, so I'm not saying don't cry, don't be broken. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying don't stay there.

[Jackie]

Because the reality is remorse and repentance are not the same thing.

[Preston]

Correct. Right.

[Jackie]

And I think ultimately that's what you're saying. And I think a lot of times people think remorse because if you like, it's self flagellation.

[Preston]

Yeah, let me beat up myself to prove it's like you're still trying to justify yourself.

[Jackie]

Because here's the thing, because here's the thing, like if you compare Peter with Judas, right? And we're gonna talk about restoration and stuff like that. Right? But, but like Peter was remorseful after he denied God, but Judas was also remorseful after he, you know, betrayed Jesus for the 40 pieces of silver to the point where it says that he felt so bad that he tried to give the money back, but because he was merely remorseful and not. And notice how I said that Judas was ashamed or felt guilty because he betrayed an innocent man. It did not say that he felt guilty for betraying the Savior because Judas did not recognize Jesus as a Savior. All he had was remorse. But because Jesus wasn't his Savior, repentance was not in him. And so he felt the. He felt the guilt, he felt the shame, he felt the remorse. But that remorse then caused him to turn and to run to Jesus. And I think that's what. That's the difference between repentance. Repentance is an action. Remorse is a feeling that just kind of leaves you in your feelings, leaves you in your shame, you know? And I think God wants repentance, not just merely remorse.

[Preston]

Yes.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

Psalm 53 is a very good framework for that. Now is they get. They exchange Barab for Jesus. Jesus goes to the cross, dies for sin, becomes the propitiation, so that God will be the just and justifier of all those who have faith in Jesus Christ. Dies, raised from the dead. Then what happened?

[Jackie]

Oh, he came back and appeared to his disciples. Yeah. I love the story of Peter. I love the story of Peter. I love the last chapter in John 21. So Jesus appears to the disciples a number of times, but the third time that he appears to disciple at the Sea of Tiberius is when he restores Peter. And so I think a lot of times we can focus on Peter's failure. We could focus on Peter's putting his foot in his mouth. Mouth. But God had a lot of grace towards Peter. And I think God wants to display that. He wants to have that same grace towards us. And he wants us to have grace for Peter too, because we're all him. And the third time it says, John 21.

[Preston]

What verse?

[Jackie]

Starting at the first verse, it says, after this, Jesus revealed himself again to the disciples at the Sea of Tiberias, and he revealed himself in this way. Simon Peter called twin Nathaniel of Cana and Galilea and the sons of Zebeni and 2. And 2 others of the disciples were together. Simon Peter said to them, I am going fishing. They said to him, we will go with you. So they went out and got into the boat. But that night they caught nothing. I love it. I love.

[Preston]

Sounds familiar.

[Jackie]

It sounds. It sounds really familiar. I love. So one, I want to just say this. I've heard people refer to this text and criticize the disciples. And I think it's kind of unfair. I think I mentioned this to you one day because one, it says after this. Because before this, the disciples, they are in Jerusalem for eight days for the feast of Unleavened Bread. While in Jerusalem, Jesus tells them to go to Galilee and he will meet them there. And so sometimes people read this text and say the disciples were supposed to go to Galilee, but they went back to their old life as fishermen and start doing what they did before God called them to ministry. And I think that's unfair for a couple of reasons. One, I think it's unfair because the Sea of Tiberias is in Galilee. Tiberius is one of the main cities on Galilee. And they named the people in that area named it the Sea of Tiberius. Because the great Roman emperor name was Tiberius. So the people in that land named it the Sea of Tiberius. So I say that to say they were where they were supposed to be. They went to Galilee after Jerusalem. They didn't go somewhere else. But I also think that them going back fishing, the reality is they did go back and start doing the thing that they used to do before God called their ministry. But I think this shows us that they're just being human. Because the reality is, like when we don't feel God, when we don't sense God, when we don't sense his nearness, sense his closeness, ministry for the Lord does get hurt harder. And so what I'm not saying is that Peter right here and the disciples are sinless. Because I think what they're dealing with is a thing called unbelief, right? But I don't think that they're being extremely rebellious or disobedient. I think they're just being human. We all kind of go back to doing the things that we did before we were doing ministry, right? And so it doesn't necessarily have to mean sinful things. But I also want to just point out one thing too. Notice how it says, Peter says, I am going fishing. And they said, we will go with you. They're not doing ministry right here, but Peter is still leading.

[Preston]

That's good.

[Jackie]

And so I love that because it just shows us that as leaders, people gonna follow us wherever we go. This is the reason why we gotta remember to follow Jesus. That's good, right? And so, yeah. And so they follow him. And then verse four says, just as day was breaking, Jesus stood on the shore. Yet the disciples did not know it.

[Preston]

Jesus, stuff like that is scary to me. I don't know. It's just like, you I just want us to imagine like, we in Galilee. First of all, our Savior just died. Yeah, okay. He, I, We. He was crucified on a Roman cross. We know what happens to people when that happens. Then they put this man in the cave and then put the thing over him. And then, you know, had the little Roman soldiers outside side make sure that nobody opens it. And then we, like, okay, cool. We going. We're sad. We going to go fishing. And then you fishing in Galilee. And he right there. Yeah, on the same.

[Jackie]

And I just want to see.

[Preston]

That would scare you. I mean, they don't recognize him.

[Jackie]

They don't. They don't recognize.

[Preston]

I would be like, huh, What?

[Jackie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Preston]

You just going to pop up on me like that?

[Jackie]

You just going to pop up? And I, and I also, too, want to just say, like, these men wasn't used to following an invisible God. Like, we were like, all they knew was following God in the flesh. And so this is extremely new to them, extremely fresh to them. We're used to serving an invisible God. All they knew is serving God in the flesh. They walked.

[Preston]

You mean when he was in, before he was in a glorified state?

[Jackie]

Yeah, before. Yeah, yeah. Like, like, like they, they, they, they walked with God. And so God being not, not with him is a very new and fresh and scary and confusing thing. I can just imagine. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, yeah. And so now he appears on the shore. And like, the reason why they didn't recognize him, because Paul tells us that, you know, our glorified bodies will not look the same.

[Preston]

Same.

[Jackie]

And so Jesus is standing on the shore with a body that is not made for earth, but made for glory.

[Preston]

Interesting.

[Jackie]

And so that's the reason why they didn't recognize him. And so, like, even when we read in the story, we're going to realize they didn't recognize him when they, like, they didn't. Even when they got to him, they still, they, they still kind of didn't. It didn't look like Jesus, but they knew it was Jesus. And so what we was at verse four, verse four, just as day was breaking, Jesus stood on the shore. Yet the disciples did not know it was Jesus. Jesus said to them, children, do you have any fish? Right. I think in the Greek that children there is translated to young men. So he's not necessarily calling them children. He's saying, young man, do you have any fish? They answered him. He said to them, cast a net on the side of the boat and you will find some. So they cast it, same thing. And now they were not able to haul it in because of the quantity of fish. I love how like Jesus is pulling on their memory, right? And you know, I taught this not too long ago, and I love this is because one thing, I think it shows us that a lot of times that the Lord wants to draw us back to Himself by reminding us of the day that he first called us. Because the first time they caught a boatload of fish, that's the day they were called the ministry, Correct? And so here these men have abandoned Jesus, have walked away from Jesus, and it says that they fished all night, right? But as day was approaching, Jesus stood on the shore. We would be remiss to think that this is not symbolic, that the day and the night is not symbolic. It often reminds us that our works without Jesus are dark and ineffective. But blessed be to God that he meets us in the morning. That's good, right? And so he meets us. He meets them, and then what he does is he tells them to do something that they did when they was first called to ministry. He allowed him to catch fish. And what happens? Their memory is immediately triggered. And so then what happens? I love the next verse, verse 7. That disciple whom Jesus loved, referring to John, said therefore to Peter, it is the Lord. So notice how Jesus stood on the shore. They didn't recognize that it was Jesus. But as soon as Jesus told them to cast their net in the water and they caught the fish, John had an immediate revelation. It's the Lord, right? And so I think what this shows us, that God often wants to remind us of the day he called us in our failure.

[Preston]

And I want to add Revelation 2, because it just came to my mind where verse 4 and 5 says, But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore, from where you have fallen. Repent and do the works you did. At first, where it's like in the calling, there was a love and a zeal and an excitement and a joy and a delight in the Lord that showed up in what you did. You reading all night, you fellowshipping all the time. You're fighting sin, you're guarding yourself. And you, I think the enemy and our flesh can make us feel like as we mature, we should do something else. And it's like, no, what you was doing at first is the thing that was like maintaining your love and your affection. Affections.

[Jackie]

Yeah. You know, this is talking about all of the disciples, but I think it's beautiful for Peter because Peter is the One who denied him. And I think Jesus allowing them to not just catch fish because the reason why they were fishing at, at, at, at night is because in their day, even in our day, you know, fishermen will fish at night because they would sell their fish to the markets in the morning. And so he allows them to catch all of this fish, proving to Peter that even though you deny me, I'm still your provider. Not only am I going to give you this fish, but I'm going to give you an over an abundance of fish. Right. And so I think God is showing Peter that even though you deny me, I'm still committed to you, Peter. I'm still committed to being your provider, giving you more than enough for me. Do you see anything in the text, babe?

[Preston]

I'm curious why it says why they counted the fish, but I'm letting you talk.

[Jackie]

So.

[Preston]

No.

[Jackie]

So like throughout history, people have debated about this 153 fish.

[Preston]

Yeah. I mean, that's interesting.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

So numbers are not random in scripture.

[Jackie]

So numbers is not random even, even, even when, even when, you know, Jesus turned the bread into fish or whatever. Multiply. It said it was about a 5,000 people there, but it, it, it wasn't 5,000. It was about a 5,000. But so this gives a particular number that throughout history people have debated. So a couple of the debates that people have said in the past is that it was known that Israel believed that it was 153 nations outside of Israel. And so when the Bible tells him to therefore go make disciples of men, this is Jesus allowing them to catch 153 fish. This is. I didn't call you to be fishers of men, but I've called you to be fishers. I didn't call you to be fishers of fish. I've called you to be fishers of men. And so they believe that the 153 is symbolic in that way. I've heard other arguments of people saying that it was 153 different type of species in the Sea of Galilee. And so. But I honestly think that it was normal for them to count fish because that's what fishermen did.

[Preston]

Okay.

[Jackie]

It's very practical because the scripture doesn't tell us why, you know, it says they caught 153 fish. But we do know that it is a practical thing for fishermen to catch their fish at night, especially people who fish for trade because they sold their fish to the markets in the morning. And so most biblical scholars believe it was just them counting the fish because that's what they were supposed to do. Now, if the Lord has some deeper meaning, maybe we'll find out in glory. But the scripture, it literally just doesn't tell us.

[Preston]

Yeah, I'm sure you. I think it's a really random observation. But, you know, just. Even in this conversation about, you know, Peter has denied the Lord. Peter has been broken and wept. Peter has is. I think they're kind of in this standstill. Like, what do we do now? Where do we go? What's going on? How when God shows up, he makes them breakfast. You know what I'm saying?

[Jackie]

But before we get there, can I say one thing?

[Preston]

Sure.

[Jackie]

Like, I want to say, when John said the disciple whom Jesus left for love said, Peter, it is the Lord. When Simon Peter heard. When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on his outer garment, for he was stripped for work and threw himself into the sea. Verse 7 says. Right. And I. I think that this is beautiful because this is Peter still keeping that same energy.

[Preston]

Correct.

[Jackie]

He's still the same impulsive Peter. The reason why he was stripped for work is because they would take off their outer garments when they would fish. Because it was hot, they couldn't move in a boat. And he thought it would be undignifying to jump in the water with his undergarments on to approach his Savior. So he put on his outer garments, and instead of waiting for the boat to get to the shore, they were on the way to Jesus. Jesus. This dude jumps in the water. And it just reminds me of what I just said about Judas. Because when Judas felt remorse, he ran to a noose and made suicide a savior. You could say what you want to say about Peter's denial, but after his failure, who did he run to? He ran to his Savior. And so I think it just makes us ask us, like, when we fail, just Jesus, who do we run to? Do we run to guilt? Do we run to shame? Do we run to porn? Or do we run to our Savior? You know what I'm saying? And so Peter ran to. To Jesus, he didn't run away from him, which is encouraging.

[Preston]

Yeah. One of the things that has always ministered to me, a very small observation which you, you know about, is that when Jesus was denied by Peter, it was over a fire. And then before Peter is restored to ministry, God makes a fire, you know? And so even as, like, I just imagine him smelling the charcoal and this being a familiar experience, but an altogether different experience. Can you walk us through the whole. Do you love me? Yes, I love you. Do you Love me. You know I love you. Do you love me? I told you I love you.

[Jackie]

Yeah. Yeah. This is when Peter is restored. It says verse 15. It says, when they had finished having breakfast, after Jesus invites them into a meal, Jesus said to Simon Peter, Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these? And he said to him, yes, Lord, you know that I love you. He said to him, feed my lambs. He said to him a second time, simon, son of John, do you love me? He said to him, yes, Lord, you know that I love you. He said to him, tend to my sheep. He said to him a third time, simon, son of John, do you love me? Peter was grieved because he said to him a third time, do you love me? And he said to him, lord, you know everything. You know that I love you. Jesus said to him, feed my sheep. And I love this part right here, because I think these are the words that actually restores Peter in his denial of Jesus. And so one I love that Peter denies Jesus three times, and then Jesus gives him three times to kind of confess his love.

[Preston]

Got it?

[Jackie]

Like every time, for every denial, I'm giving you a chance to, you know, prove your love for me. And so I think that's interesting. But also, too, when it says, simon Peter, Simon, son of John, do you love me? When I studied this passage, I studied the Greek language. And oftentimes in the Greek language, language, you know, they use different pronunciations to describe the same word. So, for example, like, if I say, I love hamburgers and I love my wife, people in English, in English language, they know I'm saying I love my wife more than I love hamburgers. I said, I do. Do you? I didn't say I do do to hamburgers, right?

[Preston]

I do do the hamburgers.

[Jackie]

I do to hamburgers. You know what I'm trying to say? But here, you know what I'm saying. When they say love, they often use love, a different pronunciation, to describe what love that they're talking about. And so when Jesus says, simon Peter, do you love me? The word there in the Koine Greek is agape. He says, do you love me above all else? Do you have agape love for me? I love how he says, do you love me? More than these, referring to the other disciples whom he said, if they all fall away, Lord, I'll never fall away. And then when Peter. Peter says, yes, Lord, you know that I love you, he responds with the word love. But it's a different pronunciation. It's the word philia. And so philia is derived from the word it describes, like a brotherly or friendship type of word. Philadelphia. Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love. And so notice how Jesus says, do you have agape love for me, Peter? And then Peter responds and says, yes, Lord, I love you like a friend. I love you like a brother. And I think this is encouraging because for the first time we see Peter is not overstating his allegiance to Jesus. He's not saying, I love you more than anything. He's not saying, I love you more than life itself. I'll die with you. He has a. More like an actual reality about the state of his own heart. Right. And I think it kind of goes back to what we were saying earlier, is that God can't use us when we don't know ourselves. You know what I'm saying? And so then he says, tend to my sheep. No, he says, feed my lambs. And I think this is just God saying that people. Peter, you don't love me like you think you love me, but because you love me, I. I still use you.

[Preston]

Correct.

[Jackie]

Right.

[Preston]

That's good.

[Jackie]

Like, and, and, and, and, and the thing that I love about the way the Lord loves us is our love not matching. Jesus never makes him insecure. Like it might make you, your. Your. Your spouse insecure when your love doesn't match. When her love doesn't match you or vice versa. But God knows that Peter doesn't have agape love for him like he has agape love for him. But he's like, but because you do love me, Peter, I still can use you. So feed my lambs. And then he says a second time, he says, simon, son of John, do you love me? And then he says, do you agape me? Do you love me above all else? Do you have the most supreme love for me? And then Peter says, I love you like a friend. I love you like a brother. Then he says, says, tend to my sheep. And then the third time, something interesting happened in the text when I was studying this. The third time Jesus says, simon, son of John, do you love me? And then this time, for the first time, Jesus language changed. He says, do you philia me? But the second time, Jesus. The third time, Jesus says, do you love me like a friend? Do you love me like a brother? And then Peter says, yes, I love you like a friend. I love you like a brother. And I think that's just Jesus showing us that he's always willing to come down and meet us where we are.

[Preston]

That's good.

[Jackie]

You know, And I think Peter like, and I think that's the gospel, you know what I'm saying? I think in Peter's restoration, he put his foot in his mouth, he denied Jesus three times. But Peter did love Jesus. And I think that in our denial, God knows that we love him. You know what I'm saying? In our failures, God knows that we love him. I think that God just wants us to have a more about our sin. And I think now when we. And I love that this is the last book of John, John 21. Because when we turn this page, we immediately get to the book of Acts and we see a new Peter.

[Preston]

Yeah, we do.

[Jackie]

We see a Peter rebuking Ananias and Safari, calling down the Holy Spirit. In Acts chapter two, we see Peter being bold because he restored him. You know what I'm saying? And I just love the fact that Peter. Peter was restored in this way because his story wasn't over after his failure.

[Preston]

Yeah. And I think even verse 18 and 19, particularly 19, is extremely encouraging because again, what kind of precipitated his denial was this strong, confident vow that he would die for him. And when the opportunity arose where he would endure some type of suffering or persecution because of his friendship and relation to Christ, he denied him because he was afraid to die, actually.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

But now in verse 19 or 18, God says, When you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go. Verse 19. This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God. And so even though he made a vow that he was not ready to actually execute, at one point he will be, you know, his love and his faith and his security in God will actually position him to die for Christ one day. And I think I've always looked at that text like, man, like where you are now, the failures you've had, the denials you've had, do not have to govern how you end. You can actually end and endure in a way that far exceeds where you are now.

[Jackie]

Absolutely, absolutely. Because what we see is Peter fully restored after his denial. And when we look up the word restoration, to restore something is to restore something back to its original state. That's the Webster definition. But I think Jesus is showing us that God's definition of restoration is much greater, is to restore something back to a state that's greater than its former self. And so this is the reason why Peter is used so greatly in Acts. Is because he was restored in his failure. And so, like, he's bolder now. He has more courage now. He has more power now. God is using him to establish the church now because he was. He was able to be restored after his failure. And so a restored saint is a. Is a powerful saint.

[Preston]

That's good.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Preston]

Anything else?

[Jackie]

That's about it. We all like Peter. We really all, all like this dude. Yeah.

[Preston]

And the goal is that we all be like Jesus. All right, guys.

[Jackie]

Peace.

[Preston]

Bye. With the Perrys is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda reed and Channing McBride. Video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley, edited by the team at Tread Lively. Artwork by Hop. Thank you for listening. Now go. We got.