Mourning, Meekness, and Mercy: Part 2 with Matt Chandler - With The Perrys

Transcript

Perry (0:08)

Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. So there's people that cry all the time.

Pastor Chandler (0:14)

Yeah, well, it's. I think it's going to be multifaceted. The first thing you mourn, if you think about when you became a Christian, when you surrendered your life to Jesus, the first thing you mourn is your own sin. And that. That doesn't stop even as you continue on in, like, I mean, I've had some significant repentance and mourning over sin in the last several months, even in my own life. I'm 33, 34 years in the game. And so there's this one layer. I'm mourning my own sin. Then there's another layer where I'm mourning the sinfulness and brokenness of this world, where my heart is grieved. I look around and see the name of Christ mocked and belittled. I see indifference towards his glory. I see perversion in a heartbreaking level, and my heart is grieved. I am mourning the state of the world, and those two tend to dance together. I've got my own personal mourning. So I'm not outside of this thing. I am, in some ways, positionally, I am. And then I see the state of the world, and I'm grieved by it. I don't choose to harden my heart so that I'm not grieved by the evil and brokenness of the world, but I mourn and lament it. Which is, again, we were just saying earlier that most churches make no space for lament. It's always a pep rally, never a funeral. But Ecclesiastes says that it is better to go to the house of mourning than it is to the house of feasting, and that the wise will tell, take that to heart. And so there needs to be space for us to mourn, not just our own sin, not just the brokenness in our lives and in the lives of those we love who are around us. But there has to be a way for us to look at the world that we're in. And maybe it'd be smart to shrink the world you're in a little bit and mourn the perversity and brokenness of our world.

Perry (2:23)

How have you seen people mourn? Well.

Pastor Chandler (2:26)

Well, are organizationally churches or individuals any

Perry (2:29)

story that the Lord.

Pastor Chandler (2:31)

Yes. So one of the things we've tried to do at the village is we have this service called Encounter. That's like a prayer healing service, but every December we change it to a lament service. We know that if you've Lost loved ones. If it's a really difficult, then you're feeling it in a unique way in December. And so it's a two hour long lament. Yeah. Not. Not hype, not, you know, quieter songs, slower cadence. Sit in it, create space for weeping. So we'll do that every December. I think people who mourn well are people who are willing to actually enter into the sadness and not try to quiet the sadness. Which is easy to do with Netflix or doom scrolling or there's a thousand ways. Alcohol, drugs, you can numb it in a thousand ways. But the mourners who get comforted, they lean into the morning, they lean into the heartbreak and comfort's found there again, not bypass through it.

Summary

Podcast Summary: With The Perrys – "Mourning, Meekness, and Mercy: Part 2 with Matt Chandler" (May 4, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this episode of With The Perrys, hosts Preston Perry and Jackie Hill Perry continue their exploration of the Beatitudes with guest Pastor Matt Chandler. They dig into what it means to live like Jesus by discussing mourning, meekness, mercy, and related attributes. Drawing from personal experiences, biblical insights, and real-life stories, they unpack the profound, often countercultural teachings of Jesus and how they play out in authentic Christian living. The tone is honest, vulnerable, and sometimes humorous, making deep theological concepts accessible and practical.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Blessed Are Those Who Mourn (00:08)

Multilayered Mourning: Chandler highlights mourning personal sin and the world's brokenness. Mourning persists as a lifelong process for Christians.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 00:14): “The first thing you mourn... is your own sin. And that doesn’t stop...”
Space for Lament: The modern church often skips lament in favor of positivity, but the Bible encourages sitting with grief and letting God comfort us.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 01:40): “Most churches make no space for lament. It’s always a pep rally, never a funeral... Ecclesiastes says that it is better to go to the house of mourning than it is to the house of feasting...”

2. Mourning Well: Practices and Consequences (02:23)

Lament Services: At Chandler’s church, they host a two-hour lament service every December to intentionally create space for mourning.
Consequences of Avoiding Mourning: Suppressing grief creates distance from Jesus and inhibits intimacy in our relationship with Him.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 04:06): “The consequences of not mourning is distance from Jesus.”
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 04:33): “You’re creating distance from the comforter by pretending...”

3. Mourning and Christian Intimacy (05:41)

Transparency Strengthens Relationships: Vulnerably sharing our sadness fosters intimacy, both with God and with each other.
- Quote (Jackie Hill Perry, 05:57): “Your transparency about your sadness then strengthens the relationship.”
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 06:02): “You’re describing intimacy, right? Isn’t that what we’re after?”

4. Blessed Are the Meek (06:14)

A. Rethinking Meekness

Not Weakness, But Strength Under Control: Chandler and the Perrys challenge misconceptions about meekness, using Moses and Jesus—both known for their strength and courage—as biblical examples.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 07:22): “There’s only two people in the Bible called meek... Moses and Jesus. And if you look at those brothers... Strength under control.”
Horse Analogy: Chandler likens meekness to a small child controlling a massive horse with a bit—great power restrained and directed.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 09:03): “Meekness is that... strength under control.”

B. Practicing Meekness (10:15)

Self-Restraint: Knowing you have power but withholding it out of wisdom and mercy.
Confidence and Stewardship: Meekness is internally confident, not seeking external validation.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 14:48): “Meekness is confident in the spirit in me... Stay low and stand up.”

C. Inheriting the Earth (16:25)

Meekness and Inheritance: The meek inherit the earth because they are most like Jesus—self-controlled, humble, and trusting God for justice and reward, not seeking their own.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 16:31): “The inheritance of the earth is the promise to all of those who ultimately become like Jesus.”

5. Hungering and Thirsting for Righteousness (18:31)

Right Relatedness: Chandler clarifies that this isn’t about moral perfection but being in right relationship with God, self, and others.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 18:40): “He’s not talking about legal standing... He’s talking about right relatedness... between us and God, between us and us, between us and others.”
Ordering Life Around God: True hunger for righteousness reorients priorities; it’s not just longing for church, but for God’s presence throughout life (20:22).
Freedom from Needing Approval: Secure in Christ, we don’t need others’ validation.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 21:19): “If I don’t know who I am, then I need y’all to tell me who I am. And now we’re not rightly related.”

Classic Psalm Connection (23:39)

The hosts and Chandler align this Beatitude with the Psalms, highlighting David’s deep longing for God as a model (e.g., Psalm 73, “Whom have I in heaven but you?”).

6. Blessed Are the Merciful (28:10)

Mercy as a Challenge: All agree mercy is difficult, especially for those with strong justice instincts.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 28:36): “Mercy’s hard, man... It is the one I have to trust the Lord the most with.”
Jesus as the Ultimate Example: Story of Peter cutting off Malchus’s ear (29:17) illustrates Jesus’ active mercy. Jesus restores a man who came to harm him, ensuring he isn’t barred from Temple service (29:55).
Why Being Merciful Is Hard: Mercy often requires relinquishing the desire for vengeance and instead requires dependence on God.

Mercy and Poverty of Spirit (32:55)

The Beatitudes “start to dance” together—being merciful drives us back to humility, recognizing our own need for mercy.

7. Blessed Are the Pure in Heart (33:35)

Purity as Honest Vulnerability: Chandler stresses that purity of heart isn’t moral flawlessness but honest transparency with God and others.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 34:05): “Pure of heart is just being honest about where your heart is. It’s not in the bar where the make believe... To be confused is pure in heart if you’re saying to the Lord... I don’t understand.”
Childlike Faith: Embracing not knowing and running to God as Father allows more genuine prayers and relationships.
- Quote (Jackie Hill Perry, 37:37): “It’s giving childlike faith.”

For Leaders (38:17)

Chandler shares as a leader that purity of heart involves owning his uncertainties and being honest with God and trusted confidants, especially when shifting theological convictions or facing relational difficulties (39:49–41:46).

8. Blessed Are the Peacemakers (44:02)

Peacemakers vs. Peacekeepers: Peacemaking is active and sometimes requires hard, risky conversations born out of love, not comfort or avoidance.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 44:27): “You can keep peace by staying out of it... Peacemaking is a love for the person willing to risk the relationship for fear of their harm or desire for their good.”
Deep Relational Investment: True peacemaking brings God’s presence into conflict situations—a marker of being God’s children (46:36).

9. Blessed Are the Persecuted (48:58)

Reality of Opposition: Jesus includes persecution because it’s inevitable for those pursuing righteousness.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 49:12): “Well, because it was coming for us...”
Clarifying Mission and Motive: True persecution refines motives and shakes selfish ambition out of ministry life (52:29–53:19).
- Quote (Perry, 53:03): “Persecution has a way of sifting out selfish ambition in a way that I think is necessary if you’re called to do gospel ministry.”
Suffering and Church Growth: The church historically grows in power and number under real, not superficial, persecution (55:18).

10. Sanctification, Community, and Slow Growth (56:41)

Chandler’s closing word:
- “Deep work over time, in community.” Spiritual formation requires honest wrestling with God, patience for slow growth (“one degree of glory over a decade”), and belonging to a committed community rather than consuming disjointed religious content.
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 57:02): “Deep work over time, in community. It’s the only way to be formed.”
- Quote (Matt Chandler, 59:00): “Content doesn’t change anybody’s life. Content will not transform you without the power of the Spirit... and the Spirit has chosen to use other people to sanctify and to help us. You can’t do it on an island.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Lament: “Most churches make no space for lament. It’s always a pep rally, never a funeral.” (Matt Chandler, 01:40)
On Transparency: “Your transparency about your sadness then strengthens the relationship.” (Perry, 05:57)
On Meekness: “Meekness is strength under control.” (Matt Chandler, 09:03)
On Mercy: “Mercy’s hard, man... This is the one where I have to trust the Lord the most.” (Matt Chandler, 28:36)
On Purity of Heart: “Pure of heart is just being honest about where your heart is.” (Matt Chandler, 34:05)
On Peacemaking: “Peacemaking is a love for the person that’s willing to risk the relationship for fear of their harm or desire for their good.” (Matt Chandler, 45:19)
On Spiritual Growth: “There is no spiritual bypass. There is no... you might get a night where you get two degrees of glory, but you ain’t never getting 10. It’ll kill you.” (Matt Chandler, 59:09)
On Community and Belonging: “God’s never called you to go to church. He’s called you to belong to a group of people.” (Matt Chandler, 58:05)

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:08 – Mourning and the Christian life
02:23 – Practices for mourning well
04:06 – Why suppressing mourning creates distance from Jesus
06:14 – Introduction of meekness; biblical and practical examples
09:03 – Horse analogy of meekness
14:48 – Meekness as confidence and restraint
18:40 – Hunger and thirst for righteousness
28:10 – The challenge and depth of mercy
33:35 – Purity of heart as honest vulnerability
44:02 – Peacemaking vs. peacekeeping
48:58 – The necessity and refining power of persecution
56:41 – Closing word: Deep work, time, and community

Closing Shepherding Advice

Deep Work, Over Time, In Community (57:02+)

Go beyond surface-level Christianity.
Give God time—sanctification is slow but sure.
Don’t try to grow alone; true transformation happens in committed, honest community.

For Listeners:
This episode offers both comfort and challenge, blending relatable struggles with pastoral wisdom. Whether you’re wrestling with grief, learning self-control, struggling to show mercy, or seeking genuine growth in your faith, the conversation provides not just practical steps, but a vision of wholeness rooted in Jesus’ own example and teaching.