Part 1: Dating Discipleship 101 with Melody and CD Fabien

Summary

With The Perrys

Episode: Part 1 – Dating Discipleship 101 with Melody and CD Fabian

Release Date: November 3, 2025
Host(s): Preston Perry & Jackie Hill Perry
Guests: Melody & Claude Daniel (CD) Fabian

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Overview

This episode dives deep into a foundational yet neglected topic: dating discipleship. The Perrys and their longtime friends, the Fabians, explore what it means to pursue dating in a way that honors God, with real examples, practical advice, and biblical principles. The conversation challenges modern cultural norms, addresses wounds from past experiences, and offers guidance to those navigating singleness, relationships, and the pursuit of marriage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is “Dating Discipleship” and Why Does It Matter?

• Dating Discipleship Defined:

  • The Fabians coined the term to address a generation of dating couples who “don’t know what to do” as they pursue godly relationships.
  • Melody: “We're teaching on how to date, how to pursue marriage in a godly way, because we don't have a lot of examples of that. There's just been such a shift of people just not knowing what to do. Like, literally not knowing what to do.” (01:59)

• Why the Gap?

  • Modern confusion traces to shifts post-purity culture; many backlash against shame-based teachings, but haven't replaced them with biblical wisdom or practical models.
  • CD: “Maybe we didn't get those type of teachings... These are not things we teach as universal, or the way to do it. I think maybe what happened with purity culture, there were these binary presentations: you're pure, or you're impure...But our stories are about preservation and redemption.” (03:13)

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2. The Fabians’ Story: Preservation and Redemption (03:34 – 06:34)

• Melody and CD share their unique backgrounds:
  • Melody was celibate for seven years as a vow to God; CD, after a wild college life, had a life-changing salvation experience and started over.
• Their decision not to kiss until marriage was highly publicized and controversial.
  • CD: “You would think it would come from the one who hadn’t even had sex yet, but it actually came from the one who had to start all over.” (05:13)
• They emphasize personal conviction versus universal rule—what God led them to may not be mandated for everyone.

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3. Intentionality in Pursuit and Boundaries (07:19 – 10:55)

• Learning from Wise Mentors:
  • Both Perrys have long-standing relationships with the Fabians and credit them for practical, challenging wisdom in their own marriage journeys.
  • Jackie: “You were reigning in the female and...human tendency to just move too fast in your mind and heart before reality has dictated how you should think.” (07:36)
• “Don't claim what hasn’t been declared.”
  • Don’t call someone your husband/wife before intentions are made concrete.
  • CD: “Leadership means you go forward. Leadership means that you initiate. Leadership means that you kind of cultivate. And so intentionality is part of that leadership...” (10:02)

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4. Initiation, Submission, and Accountability (16:06 – 19:58)

• Who Taught You How to Lead?
  • CD credits elders and pastoral figures for imparting wisdom and holding him accountable—sometimes with tough love or “curfews.”
  • CD: “Submission is also a process of humility. And so he was the first person I ever saw who married his wife, and they didn't kiss...the Holy Spirit said, you're going to do the same thing.” (18:21)
• Submission isn’t just for women:
  • Men must also submit to wise, godly leadership and accountability.

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5. Navigating Too Many Voices: Choosing Mentors in the Social Media Age (20:59 – 23:39)

• Confusing Landscape:
  • With “red pill,” “blue pill,” and “passport brother” ideologies rampant online, young men struggle to discern true manhood.
  • CD’s advice: Listen to the Holy Spirit and stay rooted in local, in-person Christian community.
  • CD: “Community sharpens, community humbles, community equips. And so if you're not in a Christian church community...you can’t…We were in Covid, we watched church on TV. Go back to church.” (22:43)

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6. Modern Dating Problems Among Christians (26:29 – 35:44)

• Cultural Drift Toward Transactional Relationships:
  • The rise of “sugar daddy” arrangements, Christians dating or living together for financial convenience, and rationalizing risky behavior.
  • Melody: “Obedience is inconvenient...There’s grief in obedience. It hurts. It’s painful.” (31:00)
  • CD: “A contract is transactional, a covenant is transformational...Covenant is selfless. Contract is selfish.” (35:01 – 35:30)
• Boundaries & Physical Purity:
  • Melody and CD provide honest, practical frameworks (e.g., exit the house if left alone; arousal is the boundary, not simply technical rules).
  • Quote:
    • Melody: “People are trusting themselves and they're falling.” (31:58)
    • Melody: “If ever I'm doing something causing arousal, we need a signal...I’ll just give you a little punch.” (34:02–34:37)

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7. Biblical Grounding: Standards Are in Scripture (37:27 – 42:48)

• Not Just “Extra-Biblical” Rules:
  • Key texts: Ephesians 5, Romans 14:16, Song of Solomon (“Don’t awaken love before its time”).
  • CD: “But among you, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality…” (Ephesians 5:3 quoted at 40:05)
  • On Integrity: “Who you are in private will come out in public. I'm not talking about perfection, but are you going through a perfection process?” (41:25)

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8. Restoration for the Fallen: What If You Already Crossed the Line? (43:03 – 48:58)

• When Conviction Fades:
  • Jackie describes losing conviction about physical boundaries and calling CD for help (43:05–43:28)
• Repent, Cut Off, Confess, Run:
  • Melody: “Yes, repent...cut off. The Bible says if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off...The battle’s still in here [the mind and flesh]...Now that comes to confession. The Bible says in James to confess your sins...if we don’t, we start to justify.” (44:18–46:05)
  • Scripture for Hope:
    • “If you keep yourself pure, you will be a special utensil for honorable use…pursue righteousness, flee youthful lusts.” (47:10–47:39)

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9. Men Should Pursue, Women Should Present (48:10 – 54:09)

• Presentation and Pursuit:
  • CD: “Men should pursue and women should present. That's very old school, but I believe it to be true.” (48:10)
  • Presentation is both spiritual & aesthetic; “Who you are on the inside comes out on the outside.”
• Practical Example:
  • Even if a woman isn’t broadly “smiley,” she may show warmth to someone she feels safe with (Preston’s experience with Jackie).
  • “I saw your smile all the time…You supported me…That’s why you became my friend.” (52:15–53:23)

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10. Pain, Trauma, and Healing in Relational Dynamics (54:47 – 64:18)

• Pain Filters How We Respond in Relationships:
  • Trauma, family history, abuse, and past wounds shape how individuals present themselves.
  • CD: “We see relationships, we see would-be potential guys and gals…but we don’t realize that we’re constantly presenting that pain.” (54:48–55:20)
  • Both men and women may need to pursue counseling and intentional healing work.
• How to Heal:
  • Awareness, becoming honest about pain, seeking the “point of infraction,” forgiving, and working through healing—in community and with God.
  • CD: “When you cry, you may need to let that cry out...then begin to just forgive and release...I want to live in this tension of healing but not perfection. ...If you’re in process and you’re having progression, the Holy Spirit and your community will start to bear witness—it’s time.” (61:05–64:18)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Melody, on wisdom in youth: “However old you are, if you're 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, you're not excused from walking in wisdom just because you're young.” (16:06)
• CD, on obedience: “Obedience is inconvenient. And...there's grief in obedience. It hurts. It's painful.” (31:02)
• Melody, on boundaries: “People say, what, you thought you and CD would have sex? We probably would have, yes. Because we loved each other and desired each other. And sex is good.” (31:58)
• CD, on integrity: “Integrity means that I am the same person by myself as I am in public. Who you are in private will come out in public.” (41:25)
• Melody, on restoration: “Yes, repent. Repentance is turning around. And so now what do I got to cut off? ... If you keep yourself pure, you will be a special utensil for honorable use.” (44:18, 46:30)
• CD, on healing: “You don’t need to be perfect by the time it’s time to tie the knot. But if you’re in process and having progression, the Holy Spirit … will start to bear witness.” (64:14)
• Melody, on accountability: “Better to have one good, faithful friend than none. Or five that are being rebellious.” (45:44)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |----------------------------------------------------------|----------------------| | Establishing "dating discipleship" as a necessity | 01:42 – 02:38 | | Reflections on purity culture and personal testimony | 03:32 – 06:34 | | The importance of intentionality and not rushing labels | 07:36 – 10:55 | | Learning initiation and submission as leadership | 16:06 – 19:58 | | Navigating voices, mentorship in the digital age | 20:59 – 23:39 | | Cultural confusion: cohabitation, sugar daddies, etc. | 26:29 – 35:44 | | Setting boundaries: arousal, honesty, exits | 31:50 – 35:44 | | Biblical standards for purity and integrity | 37:27 – 42:48 | | Restoration after crossing boundaries | 43:03 – 48:58 | | Presentation, pursuit, and the role of trauma | 48:10 – 54:47 | | Healing individually and as community | 54:47 – 64:18 |

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Tone

• Warm, Honest, and Candid: The conversation feels like trusted friends sharing hard-won wisdom, with both humor and gravity.
• Biblically Rooted, Compassionate, and Practical: The guests and hosts consistently bring real-life stories and scriptural principles to bear on modern issues.

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Summary

This episode lays a vital, often missing, foundation for Christian singles seeking direction in relationships: dating requires discipleship, intentionality, boundaries, accountability, and healing. The Fabians and the Perrys offer a blend of personal testimony, practical counsel, and biblical grounding—encouraging listeners to reject passivity, pursue godliness, and trust God not only with purity, but with pain and restoration. Part 2 will continue exploring these crucial themes.

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Transcript

[A]

Foreign. How are you?

[B]

What's good with y'?

[C]

All?

[A]

Yeah, I don't want to introduce it the same way by saying, you know, you might be brushing your teeth. You might be taking your kids to school, you might be running on a treadmill. There's a variety of activities you guys tend to do.

[B]

I feel like in different seasons, people be doing different things. I feel like people be, like, jogging and doing certain stuff in the summertime. But I feel like this video is really. This audio is released, like, in the springtime, it might be different.

[A]

Like, yeah, summer is. Usually people aren't listening as much anyway because you're vacationing. You know, you're in the Maldives or something. But now it's like, y' all are grocery shopping.

[B]

Yeah. Or if it's. If it's school days, it's like you driving your kids to school with stink breath. Because people do not be brushing their teeth.

[A]

We have to stop talking about people's teeth.

[B]

They just don't.

[A]

We just have to stop.

[B]

What about me? I don't brush my teeth when I take my kids to school.

[A]

Oh, well, I didn't know he would be opening up with that type of.

[B]

I don't. I just.

[A]

Confession.

[B]

I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it when I get back. It's like, I'm not even getting out the car. It's just, curse up, drop off. Why do I need to brush my teeth for that?

[A]

We want to welcome the Fabians to the podcast. You might be familiar with Melody Fabian and Claude Daniel.

[C]

What's up, Fabian? College Confessions.

[B]

I'm not the only one who drive the kids to school with stink breath. I just. I refuse to believe that narrative.

[C]

Car just fuming. Just.

[B]

Man, just out there smelling like yesterday.

[D]

Oh, no.

[A]

So we're here with the Fabians to talk about what you guys have coined in what I believe is a necessary category, which is dating discipleship.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Why is. Why is that the term that you are using in this new season?

[D]

Yeah, I feel like because we do coaching. We do online coaching, and a lot of the couples that we've been talking to who are like, we're not engaged, but we're dating, but we, like, don't know what to do. And I was like, so you need, like, dating discipleship? And they're like, yes. And so every time we started to say it, they're like, yeah, that's it. I was like, okay, that's what we're doing. We're teaching on, like, how to date, how to pursue marriage in A godly way, because we don't have a lot of examples about that. And there's just been such a shift of people just not knowing what to do. Like, literally not knowing what to do.

[A]

Why do you think. And I'm. I'm gonna address y' all in a sec because y' all probably like, why they not talk about, you know, propitiation or something. Why do you think people don't know?

[D]

Well, I feel like culturally, like we had a season where there was a whole purity movement. We were in it.

[A]

We.

[D]

We learned about purity. There was a lot of stuff about dating and waiting.

[C]

Date. Right.

[D]

And courtship.

[C]

Courtship. That's a buzzword.

[D]

Yes. And then there was this shift that was like purity culture ruined my life. And I would be like, what? I don't know.

[B]

Like, people were really upset about purity culture for a while.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

But maybe we didn't get those type of teachings that they got or something because we chose to wait. We chose to save sex or marriage. We saved our first kiss for our wedding day. Like, those are things.

[B]

Can you briefly just talk about that? Because, I mean, people might not know how they went all over the world.

[C]

Like.

[D]

Like their testimony.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty cool. 08Before social media and all that. I think the short version is I met my beautiful bride in Uganda, Africa, on a mission trip. And we were doing some ministry and I come to find out on that trip that she's a 26 year old Latina from Chicago in the hood. In the hood. And she was still a virgin and I thought they were extinct and this was a unicorn that I was looking at and she just caught my eye. And my story briefly was that after a lot of college craziness, fraternity and all that stuff, had a major encounter with God in my dorm room and just surrendered and started over. So fast forward, a lot of beautiful things happened. But by this trip, she's in the sixth year of her seventh year vow. Seven year vow. And I was six years, you know, celibate. And so we got back to the States and I pursued her and moved up to Chicago to marry her. And in that whole time, well, I saw the end of her commitment. And then when I moved up, I said I had made a commitment to the Lord too, that I was going to start all over and I wasn't going to kiss again until I got married. And she thought I was tripping now.

[D]

Yes. And I wanted to kiss at least during engagement. That was my desire. And he was like, no, I'm not kissing you Till the wedding.

[C]

Now, the difference here is, like, we were led by God to do these things in our personal walks.

[D]

Right.

[C]

These are not things that we teach as universal or, you know, the way to do it. And I think maybe what happened with the purity culture where, you know, there were these, like, binary presentations, like you're pure or you're impure, you know, you're good or you're bad. You know, like you saved yourself or now or you didn't, you know, and obviously, I think we, like, embody a story of someone who waited and someone who didn't wait. But, you know, this was a story of preservation. Like, God really kept her throughout all those years in that manner. And God transformed me. I embody a story of transformation, redemption. And redemption. Yeah. So when we got married, the whole blow up about not having yet, our first kiss until that day, crazy, like, that was my end of the, you know, standard that the Lord held me to. So you would think it would come from the one who hadn't even, you know, had sex yet, but it actually came from the one who had to start all over. So it made the news worldwide. We got calls from Dr. Phil and CNN and Fox News bloggers, because there was, you know, podcasts and stuff wasn't real popular back then. Yeah.

[D]

Before viral was.

[C]

We were viral on YouTube and it wasn't even a big deal in blogs. Yeah.

[B]

So, wow, that's amaz. I just want to say when, you know, when Melody first started walking with Jackie, mentoring her years ago, that's when I met you. This years before we got married. We've been married for 11 years. And the first conversation I had with you, you didn't have all the gray. It was kind of like I look like you.

[A]

What's crazy is I realized. I think we realized when we met. The age I am, I think is like around the time we met. You know what I'm saying? Cause we met, I think you were like 34. I think so, but I was like 22. So.

[B]

Yeah. I just remember the first time I met you, Ceedee. This had to be, what, 14 years ago?

[D]

Something like that.

[B]

The first conversation you had with me was when I was dating Jackie.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

And you just asked me a series of questions that made me realize I actually don't know what I'm doing. I just remember, like, you know, like, okay, maybe I don't know what I. Cause I thought I knew what I was doing. You know what I'm saying? So you guys have been walking in wisdom for a very long Time.

[A]

Yeah. This ain't huge blessing to us, y' all been doing. Dating, discipleship, truly a long time. A long time. Because if you ever heard me share dang near anything about marriage, womanhood, those relational dynamics, I learned it through Melody. Cause Melody was the person when I sat down with you about Preston and him pursuing me, you was like, don't call that man your husband. Don't imagine him as your husband until he proposes. He ain't your husband until he shares the intention of becoming one. And that's so simple. But it's like you were reining in the female. And I think male or human tendency to just move too fast in your mind and in your heart before reality has actually dictated how you should think.

[B]

I think the first thing that I learned from you, cd, is like not saying that men don't have emotions when it comes to just relational issues, but to just have integrity and to take true accountability and how much that can really save and preserve your family if you are the primary one who's kind of loving sacrificially, you know. And so I was just really, really challenged by you. I'm like, every time I see this dude, he has challenges for me, they're very soft, but it was done in very gentle way. But it was challenging. It's not as challenging. You challenge me now and I'm more spiritually mature. But back then I was like, I'm finna see CD today. Gotta prepare myself.

[C]

Well, you guys mentioned a couple of things. I think what we wanna establish if I'm speaking to men, is you gave the word intentional.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

And that was something that was taught to me, and that was something that I was intentional towards Melody. And what's good about intentionality is that you have to present forth your intention, your purposes, your reasonings. And I think that's something that God wants men to do. As part of our leadership. We talk a lot about servant leadership. And we've been returning back to this part of Jesus's walk that was very service based. He came as a servant, he laid his life down, he surrendered, he sacrificed his life. I think we need to renew the aspect of the leadership part, though.

[D]

Come on.

[C]

Because leadership means you go forward. Leadership means that you initiate. Leadership means that you kind of cultivate. And so intentionality is part of that leadership, where it was a good word for Mellie to share with you, Jackie. Like, don't entertain the ideas of calling him your husband. Back in the day, he used to call it BAE Huzz BAE and all that. Like, don't entertain that just yet until he's initiated. And that's something that I had shared with you. Like, how have you presented your intentions? Because you're right, we don't have a lot of people telling us how to do this thing. So we just kind of, we just kind of feel it out. We kind of go with the flow. But what I like to challenge men to do is if you present your intentions and you have an understanding of where you're going, why you're going there, and you present it as such.

[B]

So a couple of episodes ago, we were talking about how we've kind of had disagreements about what type of mattress we want to lay on.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

I like firm, but you like rock. And so we both like firm, but you like really, really hard. And so I want to sleep on.

[A]

The floor, but in my bed.

[B]

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[A]

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[C]

You know, Melody and I, when we got back to the States, we were. We were just friends. We were barely acquaintances from the Africa trip. From the Africa trip.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

He lived in Arizona and I was in Chicago.

[C]

And that's a whole fun story of even how the Lord showed her to me. But I began to pursue her intentionally. And so here's this guy calling all the Way from Arizona, a lady in Chicago. And I knew in my head, she's probably wondering why this dude from Arizona calling, right?

[D]

And he said it, he said, hey, listen, I know you shared your story and that you have one year left of your seven year commitment. And what that's about was at 20, I was at Moody Bible Institute. I was dating this guy. The Lord told me to break up with him. I was at a place of like, I'm willing to obey you, Lord. What do you want? He said, I want you to be single for seven years. I was like, let's let me pray again. That's the devil. Let's pray again. But he was like, I want you to be single for seven years. So I'm single for seven years. Which is another long story. But on that, that year, one year left, he said, I know you have one year left of your commitment, and what you're doing for God is so beautiful. He's the first guy that ever said that. Other guys are like, can you cut it? Like, can you cut this value?

[A]

That's just crazy.

[D]

Yeah. He was like, what you're doing for God is so beautiful. You need to finish. I want you to finish. But I just wanted to share my intentions with you. And I'm like, my father. My father would say, you're gonna have a man that's gonna share his intentions. I'm like, where? Where are these men, dad? They all running out like, I'm 27. You know, when is it gonna happen? And so when he said the word, I wanna share my intentions with you. I see a future with you. I would love to get to know you. I know you have one year left. I'm willing to wait for you. And I would love to get to know you as a friend. And in this year, see if this is something we both want. Cause I really feel like you and I would be a great team. And when he said that, that was like a code word because I had a journal that I was praying specifically for my future husband. And I had said, God, I pray me and my husband be a team. And so when he said that, I'm like, what the heck? And I tell this to women, too. Like Mary, when she would hear things, Mary and Joseph, she would hide things in her heart, right? The Bible says she hid things in her heart. And so when he said that, the Lord was like, hide that in your heart. That's not to share. Because I feel like sometimes as women, we share too much and we're like, oh, my God, I have a Journal for my preacher husband. And it says team. And he just said, you know, like, don't, you know, shut it up, Right? And so I was like, oh, team. Oh, that's interesting. You know? And I hid it in my heart, and that's what kept happening. As we were getting to know each other. He would say stuff that I prayed about. He would say stuff that only God knew. And I was like, to me, those were confirmations because I came from a divorce home. He came from a divorce home. And I made a commitment like, God, when we get married, that's it. This is gonna be it.

[A]

So I think what's helpful and necessary to say is that even I shared Yalls conversation with Megan to somebody. I don't know who I was talking to. And I was like, I think y' all tend to hear melody and CDs, process of dating and all the things. And you see them now. I was like. But they were in their 20s. Yes. Right. It was rough, y'.

[C]

All.

[A]

But y'.

[C]

All.

[A]

But I'm saying y' all were. Y' all were being led by the spirit in your 20s.

[D]

That's right.

[A]

You were wise in your 20s. You were being intentional with her in your 20s. And so is that's to say that however old you are, if you're 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, you're not excused from walking in wisdom just because you're young.

[D]

That's right.

[A]

And can I ask a question with that?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Who taught you how to be a leader? Where'd you get that from?

[C]

That's exactly. We're. We're in the spirit. Listen, thank you for highlighting that we are in the 20s, and thank you for pointing out I. I once did have no gray hair. I was handsome, you know? Thank you, honey. I appreciate it. You're more beautiful. I'm just a reflection. I'm just kidding. Song Anyway, we just trying to mess around. But it's true. I still think you're very beautiful. I have a lot of just words. Boom, boom. Just words. Like you mentioned. Initiate, Initiative. Right. Initiation.

[D]

Intention.

[C]

Thank you. Intention. I mentioned initiate. Right. Integrity. You said, here's the word submission. It's a hard word, but it means to come up under the work. Right. Sub. Under mission work. I learned this wisdom because I had submitted to leaders and elders in my life, and they spoke these truths into me. When I first got saved, there was a young man in our congregation who was an armor bearer, this whole different service system to our pastor. And I recognized him, and I was praying One day. And the Holy Spirit said to me, I need you to submit to that, that gentleman right there. So, so I went to him and I, I told him my prayers and my process and I, I shared that with him. And he came back and he said, okay, I'm gonna take this seriously. So I said, all right. So this man gave me a curfew. He, he knew my college lifestyle. He knew I was coming out from, you know, one day I had told him, I said, man, I. I feel like I can't find any nice women around in my circle. And, and he told me something kind of hard, like, you know, the little challenges. He said, well, you attract who you are, and so if you acting like a dog, what you gonna attract?

[D]

Please?

[C]

I said, fleas. He said, other dogs. And I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he would just give me these, like, challenges to my character. He had me on an 11 o' clock curfew. I had to call him, text him, let him know if I was running late. We would have chats about how my day was, how I was doing with my thought life and with my feelings and so forth and so on. Minister Maurice Nelson. And so that the very first man that I ever walked in accountability with and that word, submission. Many of us in our culture, we don't want to be accountable men. Just like, just the same way that we struggle with that word. Like women struggle with that word to their husbands. Men struggle with that word to their ministers, to their pastors, to their older brothers in the faith. It is not easy because their way. Watch this. He's not perfect. He wasn't perfect. There were times in which he came down kind of hard on me about little things that I was just like, bro. But the Holy Spirit kept saying, just submit. Because submitting to the process is staying up under the work. Ain't nobody perfect. Ain't no church perfect. Ain't no pastor perfect. Your parents aren't perfect. So submission is also a process of humility. And so he was the first person I ever saw who married his wife. And they didn't kiss. I didn't come up with that. I didn't make that up. But his, his wedding was so powerful, we were in tears. And the Holy Spirit said, you're going to do the same thing.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

So, yes, by God's grace.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Wisdom in the twenties, but wisdom, acquired wisdom, received, wisdom submitted to.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

I have a quick follow up question with that. That's. That is very, very beautiful. You know, and I think, you know, back Then even when you was being discipled by man, even when you first started walking with me, Brian died in Chicago. All y' all cats stopped walking with me. It was just a different time where men, like a lot of men reach out to me. And there's so many different voices. With the age of social media, a lot of men don't even have that communal aspect. Like, the communities are just changed because they're just. It's so convoluted with so many different type of voices. What would you say to the man who is struggling with trying to figure. Trying to figure out what type of man to follow when there's so many different ideologies out there about manhood? Like what? Like what should they be looking for?

[C]

Yeah, that's good.

[B]

When you have the red pill community out here, the blue pill community out here, the passport brothers out here talking about hope, and they look strong. They look like strong men. Like, how, how. How would you encourage men to say, this is the type of man you should follow?

[C]

Yeah. So a couple more words. Providence and provision. I don't. I want to make it normal that, number one, we hear the voice of God. I think in our Christian communities, when we introduce someone who say they hear the voice of God, they're weirder, they're strange. But, you know, in Acts, it says that the Holy Spirit has poured out his spirit. I mean, God is part of his Holy Spirit on all flesh so that we can all prophesy, right? Young men seeing visions, old men dreaming dreams. Whatever capacity is coming from you. So when providence leads you. I had said that the Holy Spirit directed me to this person. Now provision, he was already in my community. I think we go looking for the best person to mentor us. Like, we're the center of the world. What I said earlier, like, ain't nobody perfect. And I love how you mentioned Brian Dye me, others, like, in your world, like, none of us are perfect. You probably glean different things from individuals. But I know that in your community, you walk most closely with Brian Dye. I had walked most closely with Maurice. And then as community shifted, there was another man that I had walked most closely with. Tyrone Williams. Pastor Tyrone Williams. Not perfect people, but beautiful people. And so provision was such that in my community, there were people that I could walk with. And as I'm praying and I'm hearing God guide me and direct me, like I said, I didn't want to always submit, but the Holy Spirit would convict. And as it pertains to, like, social media, now I am a little old school in this. I appreciate social media. There are individuals that I like to listen to and receive from. But I think you gotta stay in community with people, with people. These people can't challenge the innermost areas of your heart that are not seen except through community. Community sharpens, community humbles, community equips. And so if you're not in a Christian church community, which ain't gonna be perfect, I think, like you can't. We were in Covid, we watched church on tv. Go back to church.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it's good. Finding something for your kids to watch can be very hard in this world, especially even when on YouTube. They'd be watching something that's Christ centered on YouTube and then one of them ads, some ratchet ads pop up and it'll just mess up everything. So having an app that houses so many golly content for your children to have is clutch.

[A]

Minnow makes it simple for families to grow in faith together. It is the number one spot for Christian content made just for kids. We are talking about favorites like Laugh and Grow Bible, Young David, the Dead Sea squirrels, God's Greenhouse and VeggieTales and so much more. Every show, every devotional is designed to fill their minds with what matters most. And here is the best part. You ready?

[C]

Ready.

[A]

Okay. It's ad free. No distractions, no junk, no just truth and creativity. So with Minnow, your kids don't just watch something, they grow in it. They laugh, they learn, and they start to see God in everything that they do. Even though as parents, we obviously want to limit the amount of time our children are online or on their devices on tv. But sometimes, you know, sometimes you want them to get about your face for five minutes or you need to answer an email or you need to cook.

[B]

Some dinner more than five minutes from me.

[A]

So for me, you know, need an hour, bucko. Okay. Minnow. The way we plan to incorporate that into our schedule and our day is them times where you just want them to get up out your face and watch something that's good for them. It won't corrupt their conscious and darken their heart. Visit gomeno.com to start your free trial today. Plus, you can use the code Perry to get your first month free. This is a web only exclusive offer, so make sure to sign up on the gomeno.com website with Cold Perry to get your first month free. Me and me and Melody have been conversing around dating discipleship probably since the top of the year a little bit because we brought the schedules were conflicted, we Tried to add them on a long time ago, but we were just talking about how it seems like people legitimately don't know what they're doing. And most of y' all have engaged with the conversation that we had with Megan and Ebenezer a few weeks back. And that helped to bring to the surface some of the conversation among peers. But we wanted this one to be a conversation among sages. And so one of the things that we were talking about is that there's a distinction now where a lot of people are making decisions not purely out of rebellion, but ignorance. For example, some people are living with their boyfriends or girlfriends not because they want to be rebellious. They just don't really have a concept of wisdom in this way. Can you speak to some of the areas that you have seen in dating relationships in this generation that you think need to be.

[B]

You're in their business.

[A]

Corrected.

[D]

There's so many things, like, from even I want to bring this up because it kept coming to my spirit, the sugar daddy thing. Like girls. What you mean girls dating dudes with money just for their money to go out and eat Christian girls? Yes.

[A]

Oh, it's the way I be so befuddled. Like, oh, that exists.

[D]

And they're like, I meet some of his needs, he meets mine. Some are not sexual, but it's this just like, he needed company. I need money. You know, that is not biblical. I literally spoke at a conference, and the Lord kept saying, talk about sugar daddy. I'm like, why do you want me to talk about sugar daddy? I bring it up. I said, sugar daddies will give you cavities, and you need to repent. Okay? You need to repent if you are doing that. Because there's legit girls with needs, and they're looking for men for provision. And these two girls came up to me and they said, thank you for talking about that.

[A]

Now I gotta text Ernest back and tell them, not Ernest, I'm gonna repent.

[C]

Old brother's name.

[B]

I'm really miss his sandals. You know, the man. Oh, man, he'd be wearing sandals with look, little cracks in it.

[D]

So, okay, there's just. Just when CD Pursued me, he got his own apartment. He didn't live with me. People are living together. That is not wise. People are sleeping in the same bed talking about, we don't do nothing, though.

[A]

Tell us why that's not wise.

[D]

Because he.

[A]

Because people will argue it's not in scripture. And people will say, well, we're in. We're both in certain financial situations. And so we're just trying to steward our finances accordingly. Like, he sleep in one, I sleep in another room. Even if we go on vacation, you know, he got a different hotel, I got a different hotel. Why is that like a. I don't buy it.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because I think we need to really talk about this.

[C]

Let's. Let's dig in a little bit. So, Melody, why you looking like this?

[A]

We gonna do two parts of this so we have time.

[C]

Do you have something to say before I jump in on that? Actually, real quick, that. That thing about sugar daddies that give you cavities.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I think that's powerful because, you know, there's a. There' a. An idiom out there about, like, wisdom and the wisdom tooth, and. And you'd say it's just not why we're going to break down that why. But like a sugar daddy bringing you cavities in your wisdom tooth, and next thing you know, you lost your wisdom.

[D]

And then you start losing teeth.

[C]

Toothless. Okay.

[D]

There's so much. Okay, so God designed marriage. He had a purpose, right? He designed it. Ephesians 5. We see Christ and the church. There's a design. The enemy comes against the design. When Christ came for his bride, he says he wants to find her ready, pure and spotless. So there's this, you have to understand, like, no, the Lord wants me to be pure and spotless. The white dress represents purity. Righteousness of the saints set apart everything in a wedding. There's some. There's something very symbolic. Jesus leaves to prepare a place for her. He's coming back for a bride who's ready. She's not like, oh, let me get ready. I've been sleeping with everybody, but I'm ready now. No, she's been waiting for him, keeping her mind, her heart, her dress for this man. So I think we just kind of got to get the vision back of, what is it all about again? It's covenant. It's not contract. It's a covenant. And so covenant is, I am loyal to you. You and you alone. I love you, husband, you love me, the wife only alone. It's. It's purity. So it's purity onto the Lord first, and then it's purity onto one another. So I was faithful to my husband before I even met him. And so when he came, he got his own apartment.

[A]

We. We.

[D]

We didn't have a lot of money, right? I. We have counseled couples. They're like, we're living together.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

When we share the vision, we share the truth of the Word. He's like, I'm gonna live with my friend until I get apt. Obedience is inconvenient.

[C]

Say it again.

[A]

Say it one more time.

[D]

Obedience is inconvenient. And my husband, we were talking about. There's grief in obedience. It hurts. It's painful. When God told me to break up with that dude and be single for seven years, I cried. I would be crying sometimes in my room on a Saturday with my Bible. Like, I feel lame, Lord. And he say, you're not lame. You're spending time with me and I'm preparing you. And so when we met, we had to walk with integrity. Integrity. What does that look like? I lived with my mom. We're in the basement watching a movie. My mom says, I'm going to do groceries. There's nobody in the house.

[A]

Time to go.

[D]

I said, we gotta go. Pause the movie. She goes, you know, you're 28. You could do whatever you want. Y' all are adults. I don't know why y' all so weird. She said that I love her, but she was not saved at the time.

[A]

Yeah, that's tempting, Mama.

[D]

And I said, we're leaving.

[C]

Why?

[D]

People say, why? You don't trust yourself. No, we did not.

[A]

That's the thing.

[D]

We did not. That's the problem. People are trusting themselves and they're falling. And so people would say, what, you thought you and CD Would have sex? We probably would have, yes. Because we loved each other and desired each other. And sex is good.

[A]

If you think you are standing tall, take heed, lest you fall. Peter, I'll never deny you. Are you out of your mind?

[D]

People are putting fire in their bosom. Fire on their lap. The Bible says, do not put fire in your lap and think you're not going to get burned.

[B]

Fire in their sheets.

[D]

In this case, no more sheets. Right? And so, yeah, so literally, we were, like, burning. We gotta go.

[B]

Burn it.

[D]

We gotta go. It was so inconvenient, while all my friends are slipping around doing whatever they want, but I can't, right? And so it was like. We call it, like, it's a battle to the altar. It was like a battle to get even to the altar, waiting for each other. And people are like, you didn't do nothing? You didn't have no oral sex? You didn't have no nut, you know, like, no, because that was for marriage. And so people have said, how do. Like, how do you have a boundary? Like, how do you set the boundary? Is it. You could kiss right here, but not right here. But what was the line, right. Because the Bible says in Song of Solomon, daughters of Jerusalem, don't awaken love until it's time. The word is arouse. Our line was arousal. You have desire.

[A]

That's.

[D]

God made you to have desire. But stimulating arousal is a different thing.

[A]

That's good.

[D]

And so we said to each other, hey, for our boundaries, if ever I'm doing something that is causing any type of arousal, we need to have like a signal that's doesn't. It's not weird, you know. And so he said, I'll just kind of open my eyes real wide, like.

[A]

And. And you have to have. Have some type of reverence even in that. Because that can even turn into a person being aroused by you being aroused.

[C]

When I do my hair like this.

[A]

Yeah. Like, you can lean into that in a way that's just wicked. Right? Yeah.

[D]

But because we love the Lord and it has to come from your love for the Lord. I want to honor God and I want to honor you.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And so I said, so if ever I'm feeling some type of arousal, I'm just going to give you a little punch. And that's just like your. So we would say, okay, so we're at the theater one day, he puts his hand on my leg. He was just kind of like rubbing my leg real sweet. And I was like, I like that. I am feeling a little aroused. That's awareness. Hello, awareness. Okay. And I just went like that. And he just took his hand off. You know, he wasn't like.

[C]

To your point, I didn't go, oh, you like that?

[A]

Right? Right.

[C]

Because, you know, I'm a.

[D]

But you would say I'm saving that from.

[B]

For a woman.

[C]

I did. I did. It was a. Our marriage savings bank account, you know.

[A]

And so you would note what you knew she liked for when you actually had the legal right to provoke it.

[C]

That's right.

[D]

When we were going to be in covenant.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yes. Because a contract is transactional, but a covenant is transformational. So what that means even with, like, the sugar daddy thing, you know, the relationship, and they even have sugar mamas. Right. The relationship is transactional. You're meeting a need of mine and I'm meeting a need of yours. It's very shallow. That's not the heart of God.

[D]

There's no commitment.

[C]

There's a commitment to the need, and it's very selfish. Right. So covenant is selfless. Contract is selfish. I'm only in this because I'm getting something out of it.

[B]

I think it's very important to disciple our kids in a sexually broken world because we do not want the world to be the first people to introduce sexual ideas to our children. And so we can get ahead of the world. We can actually develop more gospel centered kids.

[A]

That's why we were happy to help create Raising Kids. Raising kids is an eight episode video course designed for Christian parents of children 12 and under. It's designed to help parents guide their kids through things like sex, gender, bodies, relationships, all the stuff that we actually don't want to talk about, that we have to talk about. You will hear from a trusted group of pastors, Bible teachers, parents and psychologists including me and Preston, Matt and Lori Krieg, John Mark Comer, John Tyson, Preston Sprinkle and Kurt Thompson. All of us are attempting to lay biblical foundations for your kids when it comes to school choices, technology like cell phones, questions about sexuality and gender, and the real risk of sexual abuse and pornography. Instead of waiting for the world to disciple our children, we need to become the most trusted voices in our children's lives. We wanted to be a part of this course, in this curriculum because we just think it's an element or an aspect of the Great Commission. Making disciples, teaching them to obey all that God has commanded, including our children, especially when it comes to topics like sexuality and pornography, is awkward. So I think having people help us, guide us in how to do this well is dope. Facts get started today. For a limited time, our listeners get 15 off. You can head to christian-sexuality.com and use the promo code PERRY at checkout. That is christian-sexuality.com & use the promo code Perry at checkout.

[C]

Now there is some. There is an exchange for sure in, in.

[A]

In.

[C]

In a covenant, right. I got this from a book I read called morality by Dr. Jonathan Sacks. And he talks about how like the covenant ideal comes from what was established between God and Israel. And you see the fullness of that with Jesus Christ who came sacrificially, selflessly to lay his life down. Now, for sure, He. He endured for the joy set before him, he endured the cross for sure. And this is what I wanted to say about that. We want to talk about the grief of obedience. Obedience is inconvenient, but its reward is greater.

[D]

That's right.

[C]

It's all about delayed gratification. I could try to put my finger in the mix of the cookie and the cake right now, but it might jack it up if I wait until it's fully prepared and developed and I put all the, you know, cream on and everything like that. It's presented such a nice way and you really enjoy it. Right. And for sure I know people like, you know, cookie dough and all that, but you understand the analogy. So where do we start? We start with that reverence for Christ, dating relationships you should be having. In the back of your mind, you're not crazy for thinking, could I marry this person? Yeah, that, that should be normal. The culture, the fallen culture, presents dating with no intentions, no purposes for self gratification. And there we go, back into that selfless thing or selfish thing. So for me, what really helped as I was going through the Scripture, so I'm submitted, I'm under submission, I'm being mentored, I'm being discipled, but I'm also in the Word and the Holy Spirit would speak to me. And I got to first Peter, chapter one, verses 13 to 16. And verse 16, it says, be ye holy, for I am holy. So why are we being set apart? Holy. Right. That word used to jack me up. Like, what does that mean? It means to be sanctified, set apart, consecrated for some good purpose, for some good reason. Why? Well, first and foremost because that's how God is. So when we have that reverence for Christ and we're trying to walk like him, there's something supernatural that happens into your soul and your spirit where you obey first and foremost because you love God. We used to say purity is not a line, it's a constant pursuit of God out of your love for him and your, your, your and his purposes.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So as I continued reading through scriptures and various different devotions, I remember coming again. She talked about like the practicality. My wife gave example of how we walked holy, how we walked again. I don't want to. We're not holier than thou. It's just. In what way did this make sense for us? But what's the principle behind that? Where does it say that in the Bible? It does say that in the bible. Ephesians, chapter 5, verse 3. But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality or covetousness or any such thing, for it is not proper for the children of the Lord, for the Lord's followers. Right. So what does that mean? Romans, chapter 14, verse 16. Do not let your good be evil spoken thereof.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

So I am guarding my body and you know, sleeping next to her, but I'm not going to have sex. But what about her heart? What about her mind? Don't let my evil, my good be evil spoken of. What about when I leave in the middle of the night or because we're living together, what are other people thinking about us? I'm not too concerned about what other people are thinking. But if I'm giving them reason to not believe I'm being holy, that's just backwards.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[C]

That's just not the way that we're called to be. And again, in the Spirit, is this what? Is this how the Holy Spirit is leading you? If you invite men and women into your life and you submit to their accountability, would they agree with this? See, now that your life becomes open, are you truly walking in integrity? Integrity means that I am the same person by myself as I am in public. Who you are in private will come out in public. Now, I'm not talking about perfection, but are you going through a perfection process? I'm not talking about you. Don't ever stumble, but do you repent? If we're being perfected in Christ, then there is something internal that's also being evaluated as well.

[A]

That's good.

[C]

So I just wanted to give the principle. It is in scripture. And then one last thing. In the Old Testament, where we have all these stories about how Rebekah and Isaac and how we had Jacob and Leah and Rachel and all these. What were their examples? If you go back into those examples, they did not live together. In fact, they were separating each other's family homes or own tents or places like that. And they did marriage a whole different way. But when that deal was consummated, then they stayed together. So the example before us is. Is present, and the principle is present. So it is in the scripture. Yeah.

[A]

Can I ask a question that connects to this one, which is when we were dating, maybe engaged. I don't remember. We were crossing boundaries.

[B]

No, I don't recall.

[A]

You should. And. And at one point, we went. We didn't go far far, but we went too far. Does that make sense?

[C]

Sure.

[A]

And I realized that CD rebuked me very hardly. Let me paint the picture. I knew something was wrong when I stopped lacking conviction about it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Like, I started. It started to feel kind of flippant, like, so. So what, we kissed too long or so what? We touched that, like. And I started. And that scared me. Cause I was like, my conscience ain't soft no more. And I called you.

[B]

And it was so hard for me because I'm like, she's getting more prettier by the day.

[A]

I called you because I was afraid. Yeah, I was. I don't want to be a person who can sin without guilt. And I want y' all to speak to the people who have fallen, the people who have masturbated, who have fornicated, who have watched pornography, who have went too far, but they don't have a melody to call. And so they need counsel towards how to. How to move forward.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

You know?

[D]

Yeah. So two passages come to my mind. Romans 6. I really encourage you. If you're in that battle of lust and masturbation and watching pornography, and you're like, I'm on the other side now. How do I get out of this? Yes. Repent. Okay. Repentance is. God, forgive me. You need to ask for forgiveness. Repentance is turning around. And so now what do I got to cut off?

[A]

Right.

[D]

The Bible says if your right hand causes your left hand to sin, cut it off. It is better to be in heaven with one arm than in hell with two.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So what do you have to cut off? So the type of music you're listening to, the things you're watching, We. We have VIDAngel on our TV that literally can take out all the bad words, all the sex scenes of any movie, anything. What do you got to do? So there's a real cutting off. Okay. But the battle's still in here. The battle's still in here in your flesh. Now that comes to confession. The Bible says in James to confess your sins to one another so that you will be healed. If we don't confess, we can start to justify it in our mind. No, I'm getting married. It's okay. It's not a big deal. Everybody's having sex anyway. Our standard is not the Word, world. Our standard is God. Our standard is the Word. But we have a helper, the Holy Spirit. And so now we need to ask, Holy Spirit, please help me to walk this out in obedience. I want to walk in obedience. I may need to have friends, companions that are walking in obedience. Better to have one good, faithful friend than none, Right? Or five that are being rebellious even in your own church, Even in your carnal friendship circle.

[A]

Right.

[D]

Like I. I got to get out of this circle. They all. They all live unrighteously. I can't do this anymore. And the other thing is this passage in second Timothy. It says, in a wealthy home, some utensils are made of gold and silver, and some are made of wood and clay. The expensive utensils are used for special occasions, and the cheap ones are for everyday use.

[A]

Use.

[D]

If you keep yourself pure, you will be a special utensil for honorable use. Your life will be clean and you will be ready for the Master to use you for every good work. What am I doing all this for? Because the Lord wants to use you.

[A]

That's good.

[D]

As a clean vessel.

[A]

That's good.

[D]

So we're constantly being purified. Glory to God. We still, we marry 16 years, are still pursuing purity.

[A]

It does.

[D]

It doesn't stop mentally, emotionally, our motives, what we watch, Right? But then what does it say in verse 22? Run from anything that stimulates youthful lust. We have to run. You can't sit around it. You can't play with it. You have to run. Instead, pursue righteous living, faithfulness, love and peace. Enjoy the companionships of those. Those companions, of those who call on the Lord with pure hearts. So you see here. Run, pursue. Pursue what? Righteousness.

[C]

And then run from.

[D]

Run from, Pursue unto right and then get around the right people.

[A]

That's good.

[D]

And so that, that will help a lot. The women that I have helped, they have had to cut off friends. They have had to change the, the way they're dressing because it's attracting a certain audience. They have taken off their thirst trap pictures and videos off Instagram. They have. Because you're. You're attracting the wrong attention, right? And then you're putting a scripture, and.

[C]

It goes back to what my, my minister said to me.

[A]

It's the duck lips.

[C]

You know, who are. You attract. You attract who you are. Yeah, you attract what you. You present. If you want a, you know, a godly gal, a godly guy, someone with integrity and standards, then present yourself as such. I like to say that this is we were talking about earlier. I believe that men should pursue and women should present. That's very old school, but I believe it to be true. Women, what are you presenting? How are you presenting yourself? Do you know that the bride of Christ, as my wife referenced earlier, will present herself to the returning bridegroom? And the returning bridegroom is coming back to pursue his bride. That's the example.

[A]

So, but let me, let me, because I can hear people saying, are you saying I'm supposed to. Do you mean presenting aesthetically or do you mean presenting spiritually? What do you mean?

[D]

Both.

[C]

Both. I mean, so in my view, who you are on the inside represents outside. So if I'm. If I'm in, if I'm a man of character on the now, we all got style. And, you know, you guys got beautiful style. You got your clothing, you got your apparel. But notice we did when we met.

[A]

But yeah, we was broke.

[B]

We were still drippy a little bit.

[A]

Still.

[D]

Still cool.

[C]

Still cool.

[A]

Drippy with a budget, we have potential.

[C]

Yes. And it was developing and it's full blown.

[A]

Yes. Amen.

[C]

But check this out. Much of your style. Much of your style incorporates the word. Much of your style is bold, bold apparel, right? And it's. It's a plug and it's. It's trendy, but you just can't help it. It's coming out of you. Okay, so then when we talk about other aesthetics, you know, like a smile. Do you know how many people be mean mugging, you know, Chicago, right? And I'm teaching them to smile again.

[D]

Because you have these girls who are like, man, I would love to be in a relationship. But even if a man's like, hello, you know, like, it's at church.

[C]

You.

[D]

Know, so there's so much to it, right? There's presentation, what you're presenting, what you're giving off. I've met women who, who, you know, they just. You give off, you don't want a man.

[A]

What does that look like?

[D]

It could look like a stinky attitude. It could look like just like you will be in a group of Bible study or something. And I remember my husband sharing something about marriage and submission and. And you just see these girls, you know, their neck.

[B]

And brothers pay attention to that.

[C]

They do.

[D]

Yes, they do.

[C]

And ladies, you should know that we fellas are paying attention to the woman. You may not want to hear it this way, but we're looking for the woman who will want to submit and support us. If you give off the energy that you ain't willing to submit and you're not willing to support and come alongside what we got going on. And ladies, you should know that, you know, or men, you should also be in position to win, to raise up that woman to be the best that she could be, pay attention to her goals and visions and dreams. There should be this, you know, working togetherness. But you should know we fellas do pay attention to that.

[A]

I don't disagree. I don't disagree. However, mama, talk about it. I guess I'll ask Preston, because I didn't do anything that y' all just said, right? So I wasn't smiling. I wasn't coming off submissive. I wasn't nothing. Even still nothing about me is technically approachable.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

Yet I was pursued. And so I guess my question to you is, was I doing certain things that they are communicating, but just in a way that appealed to your temperament and your call.

[B]

So I think. I think you wasn't smiling to other men, but I saw your smile all often Got it.

[A]

Come on.

[C]

How about that?

[B]

I did.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so we often talked about how all of my friends. They were not my friends no more, but all of the friends that I had then, they all thought you were mean, but I was the only one that didn't.

[A]

Oh. Cause I wasn't mean to you.

[C]

You wasn't?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You wasn't. I saw your gap a lot.

[A]

Wow. That was. I don't know why. That was the Centipede.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

No, seriously.

[B]

I saw you smile a lot. And you. The first thing that you showed me is that you supported me. That was the first words that you ever said to me was. That was a really good poem. You could have did better, and I wanted to show you how you could do better. That's why you became my friend.

[D]

Oh, that's fair.

[A]

That's fair.

[D]

You supported.

[C]

You supported.

[D]

You smile.

[C]

You smile. Smile. You know, And. And do you know that you're mean to everybody else?

[B]

That was the first word she ever said to me. She complimented me, and then she helped me.

[A]

What?

[D]

Ezra, come on.

[C]

Come on. Yeah, that's right. That's. Ezra. And. And 10, 15, 20, 30 plus years later, that's what we should still be doing.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

Husbands should still be pursuing their wives. Wives should still be presenting themselves for pursuit. And. And sometimes the wife initiates, and sometimes the husband initiates. And I'm not just talking about sex. I'm talking about connection. I'm talking about heart connections. And, you know, to the point to where, like, why is it we were saying, like, who you are on the inside comes out on the outside. Why are so many men and women. And we're talking about women right now, wrestling so much with the stank face or not wanting to look a certain way or present themselves a certain way. Well, it's because we forgot to tell y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

CD is corny.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

We.

[C]

We carry pain.

[D]

So for those who are listening, full lining.

[A]

Have you ever thank God for that? Have you ever said, you know, Lord, thank you. This hairline is. Yeah.

[B]

Your lining is not receding at all.

[C]

You got that.

[B]

You got that. I salute you, hairline.

[D]

He has his hat off with some pain. Glasses on.

[C]

Yeah. We use these when we do the weekend to remember conferences and other conferences that we do for marriage and whatnot. But even in dating and singleness, what happens is we got filters.

[D]

The pain.

[C]

And we see. Relationships we see would be potential guys and gals that we want to be with, but we don't realize that we're constantly presenting that pain.

[B]

Sorry, I can't stop laughing.

[C]

All right, I'll take it off now. But you can't see straight and you don't realize it. And so this is just a little plug. Like many of us might need to pursue counseling. We need to get some healing.

[A]

Same.

[C]

Yeah, from, you know, abuses, traumas, pains. What we've witnessed. You talked about. Many of us, men and women, we don't know how to do this right. Because what we did see growing up was fights. We did see, you know, like all respect to the single mothers, but they saw those not. But. And they saw those single mothers, mothers not knowing how to do it right either. And a bunch of men came in and some of those men were abusive. They saw some of those men in and out. They didn't see how a man is supposed to treat a woman. They didn't see Covenant. They saw contracts their whole lives, and those contracts failed. And that caused pain, that caused trauma, that causes triggers. We need to heal and deal with some of that stuff. When Melody went through her seven year vow, a lot of of that junk from her past came out. When I was being single for six, seven years, a lot of my mind had to be rearranged as to how I saw women. And you talked about cutting certain things off. I threw away all my CDs. I stopped watching a lot of the movies and stuff. Some of us are really wrestling with pornography and so forth and so on. And it's jacked up the way that we see women. I remember I was someplace and I was fiddling through some DVDs and a porn DVD popped up. And I was.

[D]

You were at someone's house who had it.

[C]

I was somebody's house who had it. And I was so tempted to watch that deal. And by God's grace, because of spending time with him in prayer and the Word and whatnot, I didn't even hesitate. I just grabbed it and I snapped it. It wasn't even mine.

[B]

Dang.

[C]

I'm sorry. Whoever destroyed their property, I did. I snapped it. I broke it. You don't need this.

[A]

They don't.

[C]

And I threw it into the trash chute. And that's a story of where I conquered. I have stories where I also did not conquer. But as I got more and more in Christ, that was not something that became a continual issue for me. But the reason why was again going back to. I stayed accountable and so forth. But. But when we deal with those pains and we present ourselves as best as we can, you're not 100% healed and whole. Melody still wrestled With a lot of those things that came up in deeper ways. I still wrestled, my wife and I. I still have to practice purity. This whole new way, new platforms. So social media thirst traps. I'm still a human. I'm still a man. I see certain images. It's hard. I couldn't use my physical to snap. And you kind of flip. And there's another one, and there's another one. I just throw phone across the way and talk to somebody about it. Because we can still follow those areas and these platforms and get stuck. Get really, really stuck. So that goes back to my idea of, like, you know, have someone that you're accountable to, have someone that you're talking with. But these things need to be addressed so that we can present and pursue better.

[B]

Let me ask you guys this question because I kind of want to. I had another question, too. Probably ask in a couple minutes. But I want to kind of revisit the whole smiling and the whole, you know, what Jackie talked about. Because when we were dating, it was very obvious that when I met Jackie, she did have a certain level of pain, you know, past trauma. I had a certain level of pain, past trauma. I had, you know, mommy wounds. I didn't trust women for many different reasons. And I can probably hear women listening to you guys say what you said about, you know, like, smiling. But then also you give the pain analogy and say, it's kind of hard for me to go and present myself as this smiley woman, but I've been so traumatized. That's just not realistic. That's just not a reality for me. I'll be being fake. Right? And so I think the reality is, I think Jackie smiled around me because she felt safe.

[C]

Sure. That's good. That's really good.

[B]

She felt like I was her friend. She felt like she could. And she felt like she probably you wasn't corny.

[A]

I ain't like them. It really wasn't. I mean, I'm sure safety was a component. I'm like, y'.

[D]

All.

[A]

I don't like y', all, but I am a woman, and that it's a flaw. I am a woman who disrespects men that I don't think deserve it. And so the way they moved, I was like, y' all don't deserve my respect. The way you moved, you deserve. I felt you deserve my respect. I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying it wasn't even just safety. It also was this. This, like, ah, yeah, you're a non factor.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I Like that.

[B]

Yeah. But I, I guess.

[A]

Sorry, I was adding nuance.

[B]

No, no, I think that's. That that's good for the nuance, I guess, for the woman or even the man who feels like the way I've been wounded in the past prevents me from showing up. Well, with the opposite sex, how do I get past. Past that?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, because I think trauma, past trauma. I meet guys who just feel like all women are a certain way. All women are this and all women are that. So it really does affect how they show up with women. And I've told a couple brothers, I was like, this might sound soft. You really don't feel safe. You feel insecure around women.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And it's kind. It's affecting your dating process. You know what I'm saying? You go into this whole dating process guarded, and you're snappy, and then she thinks you a certain way.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so how do you. How would you counsel somebody who doesn't feel safe?

[C]

Well, so I, I. There's a gentleman. I know that I'm. I'm walking through some past pains, and it's coming up in their marriage. And I think it's the same thing with, with anything, really. Number one, you gotta become aware. You can't make adjustments if you're not aware. And what do you need to be aware of? That you have a patient pain. You got to admit it. Some of us men were carrying bravado, you know? You know, we're like, I'm good. Okay. Don't lie to yourself. Then ask the Holy Spirit, like, what. What is that? What is that in me? And for many men, it's their mama. It's. It's their mama or the grandmama or their aunt or their foster mama, whoever it might be. Which means then you need to go back and find the instances that interpreted great, meaningful you, and then forgive. And why the instances? Because, like, in a human body, there is a place, a point of infraction. And in that place, that point of infraction is where you need to heal. But oftentimes we have symptoms that we don't realize is coming from that place or point of infraction. So you have to maybe treat some symptoms to just kind of stop the blood from flowing. And then you kind of start touching and figuring out, oh, that's where it hurts. You do your X rays, you do all your kind of things. All right, well, when it comes to matters of the heart, it's memories. And you gotta find that place of infraction, that event, that moment. And usually when you press into it with a counselor, a pastor, a friend, they're gonna cry the same way when you were younger. Even now, to this day, when you have a major infraction, broken bone or something someone touches.

[D]

Ah.

[C]

And you hit that event, you hit that moment, you cry. And when you cry, you may need to just let that cry out so you can desensitize it a little bit, and then you can start talking about it. Why did it hurt? What did it mean to you? And then begin to just forgive and release. And you do that before the Lord, and you do that with your brother and sister, you know, for witness, and you continue to walk that out because the pain's going to resurface, and the pain's going to resurface. The memory is going to resurface. Two or three of them maybe, and you just. Again, I forget again, I release again, I forgive again. Until what happens is the way that your body will scab up, your heart will develop. Not a hard callus, but an ability to heal as part of that process. And then new skin, new sensitivity develops and you're able to move forward. So that's the whole idea of, like, I gotta do my own work. For sure, you gotta do your own work. And if you're single, start on that. But watch this. You don't need to. To be perfect by the time it's time to tie the knot. But if you're in process and you having progression, the Holy Spirit and, and, and, and you know, your, Your community will start to bear witness. It's time, and they'll start moving that thing forward. So I want to live in this tension of, like, healing, but, but not perfection. You don't have. Yeah, some things might come to a completion, and you're good.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But you're going to have other things that are still underdeveloped. Does that answer your question?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. That's good. I think that' who just were like, ah, I don't, you know, I don't. I don't feel safe to show up in communities that's socially acceptable in the dating scene. And I think, you know, I think it's. It's normal, but I think, I think giving people tools to know how to heal and to even start that healing process even before they get married, I think it's beneficial. Yeah.

[A]

All right, y'. All, we know y' all want to keep the conversation going. We know y' all want to hear all the things that melody and CD got to say about singleness and dating and all. All the stuff. No worries. We ain't going to cut you off like we did last time. We're obviously giving you a warning that part two is next week.

[B]

And next week gets better because this conversation got real good, so tune in peace.