Stewarding Influence and Liberties

Summary

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Episode Overview

Title: Stewarding Influence and Liberties
Podcast: With The Perrys
Hosts: Jackie Hill Perry & Preston Perry
Release Date: August 12, 2024

This episode dives deep into what it means to steward influence as Christians, both in public ministry and everyday life. The Perrys explore practical wisdom on how to balance Christian liberties, personal freedoms, and the responsibility to love others well—whether on social media, in leadership, or at home. They bring scriptural depth, humor, honesty, and personal stories, making these timeless topics feel personal and actionable.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of Everyday Life

• Opening minutes capture the lively, unpolished aspect of recording at home: kids interrupt, flies invade, stomachs growl ([00:00–02:02]).
• Memorable Moment: Preston narrates killing a fly mid-recording, bringing real life and humor into the conversation.

2. Understanding “Influence” in the Christian Context

• Influence is reframed as not just public or celebrity status but something every Christian has in their sphere—family, work, friends, or online.

  • Preston: “Every Christian has a platform...if you are on social media, that’s a platform.” ([03:33])

• Jackie: “The definition of influence is the power or capacity of causing an effect in indirect or intangible ways...” ([04:10])

• Both share early realizations of their own influence—Preston recounts leaving a church and seeing a whole youth group follow ([06:21]); Jackie notes the difference in how she stewarded influence before and after Christ.

3. Stewarding Influence Means Loving Well

• Stewarding influence isn’t about personal gain, but serving and loving others consciously.
  • Jackie: “When I became a Christian...my influence became oriented around discipleship, around faithfulness.” ([05:49])
  • Preston: "The danger in not stewarding your influence properly is when people become popular when they don't know how to be a leader first." ([07:21])

4. Influence and Christian Liberty

• Scriptural Foundation: 1 Corinthians 8–9 – Paul giving up his rights for the sake of others’ faith, not wanting his behavior to be a stumbling block.
  • Jackie reads and applies this to social media conduct, personal choices, and even the decision not to post certain non-sinful things due to their potential to distract or confuse ([09:41, 10:23]).
• Key Quote: “The public doesn’t necessarily need to see every aspect of my personal life. They just need me to serve them.” – Preston ([11:58])
• The difference between acting out of wisdom and acting out of fear of man is discussed extensively ([20:03–20:15]).

Alcohol as a Case Study

• Jackie and Preston openly discuss drinking alcohol and its place as a Christian liberty, exploring how and when to exercise it for the good of others, especially new or struggling believers ([14:27–16:09]).

• Notable exchange:

  • Preston: “If I want to drink a glass of wine...if I know a brother struggles with alcohol and he comes in my house...maybe I should keep the wine in the cupboard.” ([14:29])
  • Jackie: "...it’s not because drinking is wrong...for that particular moment, it was like, I want to give them experiences to know...you can have fun...without drinking being central to it.” ([15:11])

• They push back against legalism: “We put the sin in the act, and not what happens when we don’t do it properly.” – Preston ([31:15])

5. Material Influence & Modesty

• Stewarding wealth and status is discussed in terms of public perception and potential distraction or division in the Body.
• Jackie cites 1 Timothy 2:9 on modesty being about displays of both sexuality and wealth. She intentionally avoids luxury name brands when preaching to prevent distraction or division ([25:50–26:46]).
• Preston: “It’s probably not the wisest thing to get on stage and to preach...in front of that [luxury item], because that can be a distraction to somebody who’s actually trying to hear the word.” ([27:55])
• Principle: Some issues are not strictly matters of right or wrong but of wisdom, context, and servanthood.

6. Influence in Parenting

• Both reflect on how their actions, speech, and habits shape their children—often more than their explicit teaching ([32:24–38:30]).

  • Jackie: “How you are as a disciple influences the way you influence.” ([38:21])
  • Preston on loving his wife as a model for his daughters: “I want to steward influence before my daughters to show them that this is how you should expect a man to love you.” ([32:27])

• Jackie shares a vulnerability about being on her phone too much, realizing how it may influence her kids ([34:02–34:56]).

• They value consistent, authentic home lives where their kids see genuine faith lived out, not “performance faith” just when people are watching ([36:30–38:30]).

7. Humility, Failure, and Repentance as Influence

• Jackie shares a story of repenting to her team when she led poorly, emphasizing that how you handle failure can be just as influential as how you handle success ([41:08–42:13]).
• Preston: “People don’t need to see us be perfect...they need to see that you have a dependency on a perfect God.” ([42:52])
• Discussion on humility as learned not just by striving but by seeing other humble people in your life ([43:18–45:49]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Stewarding Platforms:
  "If you are a Christian...that’s a platform to display His goodness." – Preston ([03:33])

• On Love and Leadership:
  "My influence became oriented around discipleship, around faithfulness...when you add the leadership component...there’s a standard you have to live up to." – Jackie ([05:49])

• On Social Media & Liberties:
  "There are certain things I won’t post on social media, not because it’s sinful, but because… the way I exercise my Christian liberties as an influencer and as a Christian leader matters." – Preston ([09:41])

• On Parenting:
  "I want to steward influence before my daughters to show them that this is how you should expect a man to love you." – Preston ([32:27])

• Dealing with Wealth as Influence:
  "I like clothes and stuff like that ... But I’ve decided for the sake of my own conscience that when I’m in a local community or a local church, I will limit the kind of things that I wear just to ensure that there is, you know..." – Jackie ([27:32])

• On Humility:
  “People need to not just see your victory, but also your repentance. That is ... a very influential thing.” – Jackie ([42:13]) "God gets glory, you know, not out of our perfection, but our dependency." – Preston ([42:52])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Segment | |-----------|--------------| | 00:00–02:02 | Opening banter, home life humor, realness | | 03:16–07:42 | What is influence? How every Christian is influential. Personal stories. | | 09:41–11:58 | Social media, public vs. private conduct, not flaunting liberties | | 14:27–16:09 | Alcohol, Christian liberty, and serving others | | 20:03–21:56 | Navigating the line between wisdom and fear of man decision-making | | 25:50–29:39 | Wealth, modesty, fashion, and public ministry | | 32:24–38:30 | How parenting and marriage model influence; authenticity at home | | 41:08–42:13 | Repenting and making things right when you mis-use influence | | 42:52–45:49 | Humility as an influential trait; learning from others’ example |

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Tone & Style

Throughout the episode, The Perrys maintain their trademark mix of warmth, transparency, biblical depth, and humor. The conversation is peppered with lighthearted jokes (especially about flies and Chicago/“alcoholism” pronunciation), but the heart of the episode is a genuine grappling with biblical stewardship, love, wisdom, and humility both in public and private spheres of influence.

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Summary Takeaways

• Influence is not just for public figures; every Christian has influence. Steward it with intentionality and love.
• Christian liberties are not sinful, but should be exercised with wisdom and consideration of others’ consciences.
• Authenticity, humility, repentance, and love are foundational for leaders and parents alike.
• Wisdom often means limiting freedoms for the good of others, but never out of fear or performance.
• Our greatest influence often happens not in public platforms but in everyday decisions and relationships.

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This episode offers rich, nuanced guidance for anyone seeking to honor God by loving their neighbor well, amidst cultural freedom and responsibility.

Transcript

[Amanda Reed]

Foreign Jesus, Jesus, What's. What song is that that starts with that?

[Preston]

How I love you.

[Amanda Reed]

Let's do it again.

[Preston]

Jesus, Jesus, how I love you How I need you more and more yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

I don't know why that came to my mind.

[Preston]

I don't know either. I don't know why our son is so loud.

[Amanda Reed]

He doesn't want to go to sleep.

[Preston]

Oh, my God.

[Amanda Reed]

So he's just gonna be a part of the audio and that. That just is what it is situation.

[Preston]

Yeah. We don't have a studio. We record in our house, if you're listening.

[Amanda Reed]

Yep. You heard my stomach.

[Preston]

This is real life. I did just hear your stomach. It sounds like a rider's in there. When are you gonna eat, bucko?

[Amanda Reed]

Well, we're done recording, so we were on.

[Preston]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Can I kill this fly? And don't edit this out. This is real life.

[Amanda Reed]

So for those who are listening on. Listening on audio is grabbing this plastic gun called bug assault, which basically is used as a weapon against flies. Yeah. And I kind of think he's letting go of some rage through it.

[Preston]

Okay, so look, here's the thing. Did you know flies, they don't actually have mouths? They have, like, little horns, and when they land on your food, they puke like an acid through the little horn that liquefies your food to break it down so they can slurp it back up.

[Amanda Reed]

That's the fact I didn't need.

[Preston]

It's very disgusting. It's on your fly. On my foot. Oh, my gosh.

[Amanda Reed]

So now Preston is trying to grab the gun to kill the fly that is on the top of his foot. Hold on. Near the toes.

[Preston]

Hold on, hold on. Got him.

[Amanda Reed]

And he's dead.

[Preston]

Got him. I wish the cameraman can get that one right there.

[Amanda Reed]

Here. He ain't did that.

[Preston]

Now he did.

[Amanda Reed]

That's two of them. Oh, he's like Lazarus. Look at that.

[Preston]

Now you did.

[Amanda Reed]

All right.

[Preston]

What are we talking about today?

[Amanda Reed]

Here's my problem with you killing these flies, though.

[Preston]

He's still struggling.

[Amanda Reed]

You don't pick them up, huh?

[Preston]

Because I want they homies to come.

[Amanda Reed]

In here and see they.

[Preston]

And see they family members on the floor and be like, we shouldn't stay here.

[Amanda Reed]

You literally can't kill flies and not pick them up. Like, we don't have children walking around.

[Preston]

I could see that's all we got a dog for.

[Amanda Reed]

The thing is still alive.

[Preston]

Look. He is too legit to quit.

[Amanda Reed]

Hammer. No hurdles.

[Preston]

He is too legit to quit. Bang.

[Amanda Reed]

My Goodness, Yeah. It's like the end of Set It Off. Jesus.

[Preston]

When Queen Latifah was like that fly.

[Amanda Reed]

Latifah was like, no, she was getting shot up.

[Preston]

She took the most bullets she really ever seen anybody do in a movie.

[Amanda Reed]

Anyway, her braids were nice. But we were on tour, and during our VIP sessions, we actually were able to discover a lot of good topics because the questions that people would ask us, we didn't necessarily have the space to, like, flesh it out to the degree that we would have wanted to. And so, like, during vip, I would, like, make notes of stuff. And one of the questions in LA was this question around, how do you steward your influence?

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

And I feel like that's a valuable question and a meaningful one, not even for people who are influential in the public space, but for every Christian.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

Because every Christian is influential.

[Preston]

Absolutely. And every Christian has a platform.

[Amanda Reed]

Correct.

[Preston]

You know, I think a lot of times we look at platform as size, but it's like, no. Like, if you are on social media, that's a platform. If God has given you a voice in your community, that's a platform. And you're a Christian. If you've been called out of darkness in this light, you know, into his marvelous light, you know, that's a. That's a platform to display his goodness. And so I think storing influence like another fly.

[Amanda Reed]

Let it go.

[Preston]

Okay. Influence.

[Amanda Reed]

You hear how it's pronounced?

[Preston]

Influence. Influence. Influence.

[Amanda Reed]

They got a Southern version.

[Preston]

Influence.

[Amanda Reed]

Influence. The definition of influence.

[Preston]

That was so random. I'm so confused.

[Amanda Reed]

The definition of influence is the power or capacity of causing an effect in indirect or intangible ways. To a. Is the act or power of producing an effect without apparent exertion of force or direct exercise of command. Hmm. What does that sound like to you?

[Preston]

A lot of jury jabber.

[Amanda Reed]

So the power or capacity of causing an effect. Yeah, yeah. So that.

[Preston]

So we have impact.

[Amanda Reed]

Yeah. So in. In any relationship, in any space, in any. Yeah. Like on your job, in your family, all the things you have the power and the capacity to cause an effect.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

And I think in the question of how to steward influence, it's what kind of effect are we trying to cause?

[Preston]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

Okay. And so I think. I think one, for me, when did I even realize that influence was a thing? It might have been when I. When I became a Christian who was also being put in positions of leadership really early because, you know, like, when you. In the world, you're influential, but you don't care about the influence like that unless it Serves you. Yeah, Right. So I'm gonna influence you, you know, to roll these blunts correctly. Okay.

[Preston]

Oh, my God.

[Amanda Reed]

I'm gonna influence you to be like, hey, you know, you want to go to the club? Like, you know, you. Like, I'm gonna influence you. That was the kind of. That was the way I stewarded influence before Christ.

[Preston]

A little sinner.

[Amanda Reed]

I was ratchet, but I wasn't even as ratchet as other people. I just was. I like to have fun and feel good in Christ. When I became a Christian, I think my influence became oriented around discipleship, around faithfulness. And I think when you add the leadership component on it, it takes. It takes it up a whole other notch because it's like, oh, there's a standard of influen influence that I also have to live up to.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

I'm saying. So I think it became about love more than anything.

[Preston]

I think the first time that I realized that I had influence, I. I wasn't in the Christian space. Like, I didn't. You know, I wasn't a poet yet. None of that.

[Amanda Reed]

That was when you left the church and everybody left with you.

[Preston]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know the story. I mean. But, yeah, my. The first church, you know, that I was in that I got. I became a Christian in, I just started to learn a lot outside of the church. And I remember one of the main leaders basically saying, you know, you need to think about how you leave, because when you leave, others will. Like, all the young people will leave. And I'm like, that's not true. Like, you being paranoid. And I left. And then they all left, like, the same month. And I just remember that shocking me, like, wow, I have influence, and God has just kind of made me be a leader. And I think a lot of times when we think about influence in relationship to leadership, I think people think like. Like when I become popular is when I become a leader.

[Amanda Reed]

Yes.

[Preston]

And I don't necessarily think that that's true. I think God makes us leaders. Yeah, right. And gives us leadership qualities. And then I think oftentimes. And I think the danger and not storing leader, like, not storing your. Your influence properly, is when people become popular when they don't know how to be a leader first.

[Amanda Reed]

Well, I. I think one of the fundamental basic tenets of. In my stomach is so loud.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

Of stewarding your influence is one recognizing that you have it.

[Preston]

Yes. Right.

[Amanda Reed]

Because I think we can feel as if our actions don't directly affect other people. I think. I think a more biblical term might be witness yeah, like what, what is. What are we communicating about Christ, about the word, about the Christian faith, about love, about truth, in how we show up in our relationships, on our jobs, on our campuses, all the things. And I think a really helpful text on this is even First Corinthians 8 and 9. Like, if you read through it, you see Paul is having this conversation about food. Like, food that has been like, should we eat food that was like, sacrificed to idols and all the things, because they would sacrifice the food, Take something back, eat it, all the stuff. And Paul goes on to say, say in. In chapter nine about, like, how he has rights that he surrenders for the sake of influence. You know what I'm saying? Like he says in verse 19, for though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all that I might win more of them. So it's like he moves and does certain things and doesn't do certain things, all based on the fact that he knows that what he does has influence. Right. And so I think the difficult part of being influential, in whatever capacity God has made you influential, that it requires you to be a servant.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

To be mindful, you know what I'm saying? Because, like, what is one of the first times or what is a time that you had to surrender a right for the sake of influencing someone in a positive direction?

[Preston]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, there, there, you know, I.

[Amanda Reed]

Think because our whole life is this, actually.

[Preston]

Yeah. It's like I'm trying to think about the first time, I think, because it's all. All the time. There are certain things I won't post on social media, not because it's sinful, but because I think the way I exercise my Christian liberties as a influencer and as a Christian leader matters. Right. And so, like, I think, you know, even, you know, like, not posting stuff for the sake of arguments when it might get in the way of what God is trying to. Like, because a lot of times, you know, I won't post something because I know that that will be the topic of discussion and not. And not what God told me to do in that season.

[Amanda Reed]

What do you mean?

[Preston]

So, so, for example, like, like I think storing influences is saying, man, if God, if God this month, in the next month, he's really put it on your heart to teach people about the Trinity. Like, I. I've had seasons of that. Like, like Christians don't know how to explain that God is triune. Now if I post a liberty, you know, on my. On my page that might not be having a drink like me having a drink or me, you know, doing something that a large amount of the Christian community might think it's problematic draws so much attention away from what God told me to do. Now everybody's coming to my page to argue, not learn about the Trinity. And now it overshadows actually what God told me to do. And so I think that's just the wrestle that the Christian has who is in a leadership position and who has influence. It's like you have to be wise in the battles that you pick, because the battles which you pick is not you merely just trying to escape conflict for conflict sake. It is man. Like, sometimes the enemy can even leverage these, you know, arguments and, you know, and. And, you know, and unfortunate, you know, battles on. On online to kind of like, stray you away from what God told you to do. And so I think for me, it. It is always that. It is. It is like walking in a level of wisdom that says, man, the public doesn't necessarily need to see every aspect of my personal life. They just need me to serve them.

[Amanda Reed]

Well, yeah, it. It. It kind of can be framed in the context of, like, the weaker, Stronger Brother In First Corinthians 8, when we talk about being mindful of others and how we show up and what we do. Like, because in verse 10, he says verse nine in chapter eight, but take care that this right of yours. So the right to basically eat food that is offered to idols, he's saying it's not sinful to eat food that is offered to idols. That's a conscience issue. But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone sees, therefore is influenced, Anyone sees who. Who sees you, who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? And so by your knowledge, this weak person is destroyed and the brother for whom Christ dies. So there's this concept of there are some things that are not even a sinful, wicked, problematic issue. But if I am considering my brother as better than myself, then I might need to withhold or restrain or just move different for their sake.

[Preston]

Yeah, and this is. Yeah, that's. That's really good. This also kind of like leaning into, like, a Christian liberty kind of conversation.

[Amanda Reed]

Definitely.

[Preston]

Yeah. But I. I think. I think they kind of. They hold hands in a lot of ways. Right? Because I think it's a fly on your head.

[Amanda Reed]

It is.

[Preston]

My goodness. They are everywhere.

[Amanda Reed]

Yeah.

[Preston]

I think one of the things. Sheesh. Now it's on your head.

[Amanda Reed]

Oh.

[Preston]

Oh, I should kill.

[Amanda Reed]

This must be because we're dead. Dead to sin and alive to Christ. Get it? Yeah.

[Preston]

This conversation is kind of like leaning into, like, a Christian liberty conversation, which I. I think, you know, it. They definitely hold hands. And I think, you know, stewarding your Christian liberty is important. 1. I. I think we have to define it, because I've heard a lot of people say, you know, don't do this because, you know, it's gonna be a stumbling block to. To. To. To your brother. Well, one, I think context is like, you know, if your brother. If you know your brother has a drinking problem or if, you know, people in this region have a problem with idolatry, don't do anything that might look like idolatry. Or if your brother has a problem with alcohol.

[Amanda Reed]

Like you. You're moving according to knowledge, not necessarily assumptions.

[Preston]

Absolutely right. And so, like.

[Amanda Reed]

Or fear of man. Yeah.

[Preston]

And so. So if. If I want to drink a glass of wine, I think the Bible, like, lets us know that that's one of my Christian liberties. But if I know a brother struggles with alcohol and he comes in my house at night, maybe I should keep the wine in the cupboard.

[Amanda Reed]

Yeah.

[Preston]

Right. So that's basically what it's saying, or.

[Amanda Reed]

If it's a discipleship thing. We've had conversations where I might have newer believers over the house, and I'm like, can you not get a drink while we hang out with them?

[Preston]

Absolutely.

[Amanda Reed]

And it's not because drinking is wrong, and it's not because I don't. I actually also think newer believers should have opportunity to see what it's like to partake in alcohol with self control.

[Preston]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Amanda Reed]

Not drunkenness, because I also think that's a discipleship issue. But for that particular moment, it was like, I want to give them experiences, to know that they've just come out of the world where drinking was always central to all community and fellowship. Yeah. And so I want to train them to have the. The vision that, no, you can have fun and have conversation, to have joy without drinking being central to it. So to me, my mind wasn't. Alcohol is bad. Don't want them to see it. Drink. It's where they are in their walk at this point. I think they need to see a different kind of fellowship.

[Preston]

Now. I can imagine that being confusing to somebody who's listening to me, like, man, like, the Bible gives us permission to drink alcohol.

[Amanda Reed]

Well, drunkenness is sin.

[Preston]

Drunkenness is.

[Amanda Reed]

They call Jesus. They accuse him of drunkenness, which implies that he was drinking wine.

[Preston]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And also, too, you know, even if we look and I know this is not a episode about, you know, alcohol.

[Amanda Reed]

And the comments are just. That's what it's about to become.

[Preston]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is, it is, it is. But. But, like, it is a liberty that we should steward. Well, but when we. Even when we look at it like the first miracle that Jesus did was he turned water into wine. And one of the. One of the, like, context, you know, details in that story is one of the reasons why him doing it was so impressive is because when they gave the master at the. At the. At the wedding, the. The actual wine, he was impressed how strong it was. Because historically, what would happen at the at in Jewish weddings is the. The parents of the bride would buy all of the alcohol, right? And if they didn't have a lot of money, they wouldn't roll it in the dough. They would bring out the strong wine first, and then later on, they would bring out the weaker wine. So the. When they gave. When Jesus turned water and wine later in the wedding party, he said, man, you actually. You actually save the. The. The wedding here. Right, Right. Because usually what happens is they bring the strong wine out first. And when everybody has you drunk in their field, meaning which everybody's on their level. You know what I'm saying? We bring the weaker wine because they.

[Amanda Reed]

Were at a wedding feast.

[Preston]

Oh, my gosh.

[Amanda Reed]

And you know how we do, you know, to appease the people? What? We put the best line out first.

[Preston]

That is so random.

[Amanda Reed]

I just feel like I need. I need one of them. You know what I need moving forward in this podcast? I need a DJ table right next to me where I could just cue songs. Yeah.

[Preston]

Let me read it real quick. This is John 2 starting at the. Starting at the.

[Amanda Reed]

The best wine the night he said it.

[Preston]

The tenth verse. No, where's the ninth verse?

[Amanda Reed]

Why are you looking for it? Don't act like y' all don't know what I'm talking about.

[Preston]

You were so random. This. This is what it says. It says, when the master of the feast tasted the water now become wine. He did not know where it came from. Right. Though the servants had drawn the water and knew. Right. So Jesus turned water into wine. They didn't know that Jesus did this in the back, but Jesus basically saved them because to run out, to run out of wine in this cultural context is a very shameful thing. And so Jesus shamed them. The. Not shame them, but he, you know, spared them, like the public Embarrassment of running out of wine. Right. And then he says the mass of the feast, called the bridegroom and said, everyone serves good wine, typically. Right. When people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. Right. And so Jesus actually, like this lets us know that no Jesus act. This is real wine. This wasn't grape juice.

[Amanda Reed]

It was.

[Preston]

It was. It was drink that got people on a level. And, And. But like, at the same time, like, we know in our cultural context, it's a liberty, but we have to steward that liberty accordingly. We can't just brainwind out when we don't know if this is struggle for people. When we don't know if people struggle with alcoholism, we don't know if people struggle with even the idea. I think also too, storing your influence, if you around new believers, it's not necessarily a matter of hiding it from them. I think you should hide it. Yeah. But being ready to have those conversations and, and explain, you know, and teach.

[Amanda Reed]

Because somebody could say, you know, well, on y' all socials, it's not like you. It can come across like y' all hide that you drink. And it's like, no, that's just. Again, that's the avenue of stewarding influence. Because if you're in my life, you know.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

You know what I'm saying? Because we can talk through stuff, you know, my life, you see my degree of self control. I know where you are. Like, all the stuff, like social media, if you got 10,000 followers, that's like, some stuff ain't for social media because there's. It's. There's too much room for confusion.

[Preston]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Amanda Reed]

And so I think some stuff is just like, you just gotta be careful on that. But I think my question is, how do you steward influence without also being a slave to men? Right.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

Because you have some people that don't move in certain ways, not even on some wisdom, but on some fear. Yeah. I think I'm afraid to be free.

[Preston]

Know if this answers your question, but I also want to just touch on this. I remember one time I was in Toronto and somebody asked me. I didn't bring it up. Somebody asked me the question about alcoholism. And so, of course, alcoholism. Not alcoholism, just alcohol. Like, can we drink? Whatever.

[Amanda Reed]

And so what you. What you call it?

[Preston]

Can we drink?

[Amanda Reed]

No, how you pronounce.

[Preston]

Why you always trying to put me on blast? Goodness gracious.

[Amanda Reed]

I just. I just.

[Preston]

Alcoholism.

[Amanda Reed]

Al.

[Preston]

Al, Al. Alcohol, somebody.

[Amanda Reed]

It ain't. No, it's a L in there.

[Preston]

Liquor. That's the L I was looking for.

[Amanda Reed]

They gotta Be Chicago. This man said, alcohol.

[Preston]

Alcohol. But yeah, somebody asked me about drinking, and I answered the question honestly. I think I brought that passage up and I explained, no, Jesus actually turned water into, like, real wine. It was like they got on a level and. And somebody followed it. Followed it, followed up by saying, I'm sorry, I can't speak today. David's like, are you still in influence? Well, here. By even, Even explaining that to the crowd, like, and it's almost. It's almost like they're saying, like, you shouldn't talk about. You shouldn't talk about it and you should, like, hide it. And this is like, no, like, if it's in God's word, he should hide it. He didn't hide it.

[Amanda Reed]

Yeah.

[Preston]

Like, we should teach it. Like. Like stewarding influence is not. Not talking about things. Because you think Christians can't handle it.

[Amanda Reed]

Right?

[Preston]

Yeah. That's not. That's not. That's not loving.

[Amanda Reed]

That's the same reason people don't even know what to do with sex.

[Preston]

Yes.

[Amanda Reed]

Right. Because you've had years and years of the church thinking, if we just refrain from talking about sex and sexuality, then that will actually protect people from, like, like pursuing it. But it's like the world is talking about this. And so most of us have been trained and instructed, even on the subject of sexuality by the World first before we got it from the church. And so why, like, why shouldn't we show people and talk about. And discuss topics that help people to think through things that they're going to come in contact with?

[Preston]

Absolutely. Which was my point. It's like I. But I told what I told the, the young lady. I was like, I don't serve people by hiding the word of God. That's not. That's not a service to them. My job as a teacher is to explain the scriptures in context. And I think the reason why we. We. We. We grow accustomed to avoiding things is because we think that the same Holy Spirit that works in us is not working in a new believer.

[Amanda Reed]

Yeah, I think.

[Preston]

And it's like, no, like. Like what. What the truth is. God's spirit is also.

[Amanda Reed]

I think we're scared. I think there's a fear that if we discuss certain things or do certain things or walk in certain liberties, then we are giving people license to abuse it.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

But I think that is what community is for. Right. Where if you see someone taking advantage of a liberty or doing a little bit too much on something, then you actually have a conversation to correct it. And so you don't Fix the problem by avoiding the problem, you, you make sure, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, yeah, you have a conversation.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

But I think I, I think, I think another avenue or another liberty that I personally have applied, that I talked about on my stories one time is clothing to a certain degree, and particularly clothing that has, like, names on it. You know what I'm saying? And I, I remember, I remember feeling like when I started to buy certain items that could be a flex, I was like, I'm never, I'm not gonna say never, but I, I, you will rarely, if ever, see me preach or teach on a stage in something that could flaunt wealth. Yeah, yeah.

[Preston]

I just got attacked the other day about what? I was in London and I had, I, I have a, I have a Gucci bag. And. Oh, yeah, and I, and I, and I wore it and the guy was like, this caption is a contradiction because he has a Gucci bag on. And the thing that I said to him, I was like, well, man, like one. That's a liberty that I have to wear my, to wear my Gucci bag. But also, too, I'm not known for wearing name brands. I'm not known for having Gucci and Louis Vuitton because I practically made it my not to wear names. That would just communicate wealth, wealth, wealth, wealth, wealth. Because I think it can overshadow the gospel for sure. But, you know, I do think that, like, it can be a stumbling block. It can be a stumbling block.

[Amanda Reed]

I don't know if it's a stumbling block as much as it's a distraction. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if it's a stumbling. I, I think it could be a.

[Preston]

Distraction because I think, I think it could be a stumbling block in, in the sense that, like, if we fly this verse, if we flaunt it in a way where people are following us, I think a lot of people want God to obtain possessions.

[Amanda Reed]

Sure.

[Preston]

So if you, if you, if you present it in that way, like, you can communicate. No, if you, if you come to God, gotta give you material things instead of himself. And so I think it could, it could be a stunt, potentially be a stumbling block in that way.

[Amanda Reed]

So here's the scripture that's influencing that. It's 1st Timothy 2, 9. Likewise, also that women should adorn themselves in respectful apparel with modesty and self control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire. Okay. And so he's talking to Timothy about how the church. So he's talking about Local church. He's not talking about if they go out to eat with their friends or whatever. Whatever. Like, this is how the church should be ran and should be function. And a lot of times we primarily focus on the modesty, or the mention of modesty in this verse as it relates to don't wear your stomach out, or don't have your thighs out, or don't have too much breasts out. But modesty also applies to displays of wealth.

[Preston]

Yeah, right.

[Amanda Reed]

And so costly attire. He's like, I don't want to create an opportunity where distinctions are made within the congregation based on the amount of money that you have.

[Preston]

Right.

[Amanda Reed]

Where you look better, so you therefore get treated better. I don't want there to be opportunities for favoritism or all the stuff. And so, like, I think for me, I've tried to apply that in my teaching where it's like. Or even at church, like, it's a bug on your head. Like, I. I want to. I don't want to influence people in a direction that centers money.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

I like stuff. I like clothes. I like bags. I like shoes. And I'm going to buy it. It. I'm going to wear it, but there are certain circumstances. Okay. Okay. He has the gun on my head for every. Everyone watching Spotify or listening to Spotify. Are you. Are you done?

[Preston]

He gone. I got him. I saved your life. He's gonna land on your head.

[Amanda Reed]

I like clothes and stuff like that. I like all of that. But I've decided for the sake of my own conscience that when I'm in a local community or a local church, I will limit the kind of things that I wear just to ensure that there is, you know.

[Preston]

Yeah. And what I hear you saying.

[Amanda Reed]

And that's. That's not out of fear. No, I think it's like, it's not fear of man.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

Honestly, it's. It's legit love.

[Preston]

Yeah, it's legit. It's legit love. It is rooted in a deep wisdom. And I think a lot of times when we. When we see how God is calling us to steward our influence, it is not a sinful thing to do these things. God is just saying, you know, stewarding influence is not, not, Not. It's not a sinful matter, but it's a wisdom thing. It's kind of like. Yeah, yeah, sometimes because, like, for you, it's not sinful for you to. To. To. To buy a name brand that's expensive If. If. If God is giving you the money to do it. But it is. It's probably not the wisest thing to get on stage and to preach in front of that because that can be a distraction to somebody who's actually trying to hear the word. Maybe they might be lit. They might be look like so fixated on your, your clothes to the point where they can't receive a message. And also, too, I don't want, I.

[Amanda Reed]

Don'T want us to turn this in such a way where people who do wear certain brands while preaching and teaching are looked like, oh, they're not being so. I don't, I don't want people.

[Preston]

I do think it's a conviction thing. I do think. Yeah, I do. I think that scripture you just said.

[Amanda Reed]

I think the scripture needs to be considered.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

I think for those who are in leadership, influential preaching, teaching decisions, and even, and even anybody who has some measure of wealth, I think we have to consider how we flaunt it.

[Preston]

Absolutely.

[Amanda Reed]

That is a thing, especially in Atlanta where you have a lot of entrepreneurs and stuff like that. So it's not that God doesn't want you to dress nice and stuff. Like when you look at the priest, the priest was dressed down. You get what I'm saying? Like, it's, that's cool. It's just consider, think about, pray about, like, how you do it, when you do it, where you do it. Yeah.

[Preston]

Because a lot of, because a lot of people, you know what, like the, the commands and, and the instruction that God give give us. It's not necessarily a sin issue, but it's a wisdom issue. Because a lot of the things can lead to sin. A lot of things can lead to confusion. I go back to the alcohol thing or the liquor thing. I'm not saying it right. Right. I go back to the liquor thing. Like, Right. Like drunkenness is an issue. And so if drunkenness is an issue, we have to be able to steward liquor in a way that says, I'm going to drink and I'm going to display soberness. Right. And if I don't do that, I teach people. I might, I might can teach people about the people of God. You know, I'm saying that isn't true. Right. And so, like, if one of the fruits of the spirit is self control, it's like, how can I display self control while still doing it? Because that actually gives glory to God. Right. And so how we do things matters. Right? Like how we display things matter. What the world sees matter. And I think this reason why people a lot, a lot of times get caught up in legalism because they actually think The. The doing is the. It's the sin. And it's like, no, God gives. It's. It's more nuanced than that. Like, God gives us application, and God gives us things to do for a reason. He's not just saying doing these things are simply, you know, like, inherently sinful. It is just like, no, sometimes doing things can teach people about God. That's not true. And so, like, it's important how we.

[Amanda Reed]

Flesh that out because I got a little confused.

[Preston]

Well, I'm sorry. So, like, for example, I think sometimes people might be like. Like, like alcohol is. Is sinful. Like, drinking is sinful. Drinking is bad, bad, bad, bad. And it's like they.

[Amanda Reed]

That's not in scripture.

[Preston]

Yeah, they put that. They put the scent in the act and not. And not what happens when we don't do it properly.

[Amanda Reed]

Correctly. Yes.

[Preston]

Right. And so, and so we, We. It's so much legalism goes into it because we actually think the consumption of alcohol is sin and not what comes when we don't do it. With sel. Like, drunkenness is a sin, right? Because when we are drunk, it is.

[Amanda Reed]

It's.

[Preston]

It's harder for us to display the glory of God.

[Amanda Reed]

And the Bible says, don't be drunk with wine, but be filled with the Holy Spirit, right?

[Preston]

And so when we drunk, we. We. We sleep with people that we didn't want to sleep with at night, right? When we're drunk, right? We. We say things that dishonor our brother when we drunk. You know what I'm saying? Like in. In. In. In if. Right? You know, you know, alcoholics or whatever, it affects our body in a. In a way that can. That can. That can kill us, right? And so everything. Self control. And so I think that we, sometimes we put so much sin. We put the sin in the actual doing, and we don't pay attention to how God tells us to do it.

[Amanda Reed]

That's good.

[Preston]

Like, the how always matters to God because the how is connected to the heart. You know what I'm saying?

[Amanda Reed]

How do you steward your influence as a parent?

[Preston]

That's a good question. Yeah. I think for me, a big part of Sterling, My influence as a parent is how I love you. I think. I think for me, like, when I had daughters, I. I don't want to just, like, tell my children that I love you, but I want to. I want to show them, like, love. But also, too, I want to steward influence before my daughters to show them that this is how you should expect a man to love you. Like. Like, I Don't want my, my, my daughters to grow up wondering what love looks like from a man. Like, I want them to grow up knowing that no, like, my dad loved my mom.

[Amanda Reed]

You know, One of my biggest insecurities as a parent when it comes to what I'm influencing my children in is how much I'm on my phone. Like, that's, it's, it's an insecurity and it's something I need to change that I've, I think I've had seasons of success because everything is happening on my phone, right. So it's not even just social media. I'm reading on my phone, I'm banking on my phone, I'm answering emails on my phone, I'm putting my schedule together on my phone, I'm paying bills on my phone. But to them it just looks like mommy is always on her phone. And I've been thinking through like, how hypocritical it will be when they get their own phones for me to say, don't be on it all day, I'm.

[Preston]

Gonna buy your side, Kim Dick.

[Amanda Reed]

Now I've been thinking about that. I'm like, they gonna be like, yeah, you trained us to be on our phones all day, cuz that's all you do.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

And I remember they see you read.

[Preston]

A lot though, like physical on my phone.

[Amanda Reed]

Yeah. But also, even on my phone, I'm like, when you hear stories of people who grew up with Christian parents, they're like, yeah, I remember, you know, waking up to see my mom in, in the Word and it's like, I'm in the Word more than they know, but it's because I'm doing it on my phone and I'm like, maybe I need to actually, actually start bringing my, like reading my tangible, tangible Bible at home more often for the sake of my children being able to see their mom in the Word and not just in her phone. Does that make sense?

[Preston]

Yeah, I told myself I was gonna.

[Amanda Reed]

Do that with you. So that's a, that's an insecurity of mine that I'm sharing publicly because I think that's a matter of influence. Like it is. I'm, I'm training them to.

[Preston]

What other ways to do the things. What other ways do you think that you have stewardship influence as a, as a mom?

[Amanda Reed]

I think it's a lot. I think, I think the way I speak to you, I think the, our home, like why you left, because I.

[Preston]

Just, I don't know. I'm sorry, I didn't, I didn't even mean to laugh out loud.

[Amanda Reed]

What was that about? What came up?

[Preston]

Because we. We have a family member. Oh, who's speaking. Who was going crazy on her. Only her husband and I, I think. I don't know. I don't know how old she was.

[Amanda Reed]

I think she was like three.

[Preston]

She was like three, four. So she was like. What did she say again?

[Amanda Reed]

She said, don't talk to him like that. My mommy doesn't talk to my daddy like that, so you shouldn't talk to your husband like that. And. Which was encouraging because that she's being influenced to have a concept of how men and women should interact.

[Preston]

That's good. It encouraged me too.

[Amanda Reed]

So I think. I think. Yeah. How I. How I interact with you, how I speak with you. I think even stuff. Like, one of the things I enjoy about our home is that our children get to see different people in it all the time. You know, like our friends or people from church or people we're, like, trying to get to know. Like, they get to. They get to see fellowship and. And they get to hear what it. What it is. So it's like, I love the fact that when my kids are around me, I don't have to start shushing. Yeah. I don't have to, like, talk different. Like, my. My kids hear when me and my friends are talking what we're talking about now.

[Preston]

Sometimes you didn't be a little nosy.

[Amanda Reed]

Sometimes I be wanting to. I'd be talking about people a little bit, and I'm like, oh, you gotta reign that in for the sake of your heart, for your child, you know, like. But I. I think I. Like, Like, I even told you on July 4th, you had a video of. Of August next to you while you were out on the. On the deck with, like, a bunch of dudes. And I'm like, isn't that cool that your son can be next to you and you know that he's being influenced about what godly masculinity is.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

That you don't have away the. The blind or. Or put away this. Or change the music. Like, stop.

[Preston]

Well, we don't talk about women right now. It's like. No, we're all actually talking about our wives.

[Amanda Reed]

You're still being authentically free. You don't have to change up because you're already changed.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

And so, like, your. Your son can be in the presence of that and be influenced in a particular way. So I think that's. I think. I think just how you live. Like, because when. When it talks about parenting, In Deuteronomy, where is it at? Okay, so like in Deuteronomy, in chapter six, it says, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. Okay? So it needs to be in you. You need to be this person. Verse 7. You shall then teach them was not a Then you shall teach them diligently to your children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise eyes, you shall bind them as sign on your hand, they shall be as frontless between your eyes. Meaning like verse six, verse five and six plays a part in your ability to do verse seven and eight. Right. Like you're not going to teach them diligently to your children or talk about them when you sit down or when you walk. By the way, if you don't love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul.

[Preston]

Right.

[Amanda Reed]

And so it's like how you are as a disciple influences the way you influence.

[Preston]

Yeah, that's good.

[Amanda Reed]

That's basically what I'm saying. And so like, I think raising your children up in Christ means that you have to be diligently growing in Christ.

[Preston]

Yeah. And I love that which is hard and hard. And I love that you said that, because I, I love that I say this all the time. The Christian faith is so encouraging to me because our God condescended and became a man to display this himself. Right, Right. And so like when we see Jesus, who had a lot of influence, Jesus, he was famous, Right? And not only was he famous, his disciples were famous. They were known. And doing his three year missionary journey, his fame grew quickly, but we see him consistently, like even when the crowd drew, going across the other side of the river to go away, to pray, to go before his father. Right. To seek his father. And so even the Son of man displayed that in order for me to steward this influence, this earthly influence. Right, right. There has to be a withdrawing from people. It has to be redrawing from crowds. There has to be a communing with my father in order for me to do this work.

[Amanda Reed]

That's good.

[Preston]

Right. And so I think for us, like, I think that's a big part of stewarding influence. It's like, man, you cannot, I, I, I even say it in evangelism, people be like, the number one thing people say in my evangelism videos is, Preston, you are so patient. And I tell People.

[Amanda Reed]

It came from failure.

[Preston]

I. It came from failure. Yeah. But it also came from me. Like, I remember days before I would go out, I would beg God to take impatience away from me. I would beg God to take away anger away from me. Because people don't make you do anything. They just bring what's in you out. And so in order for me not to display this and ruin my influence in my videos, there has to be a giving to the Lord. There has to be saying, like, lord, I'm not naturally a patient person. Help me. And so a lot of our influence starts in the quiet place.

[Amanda Reed]

That's good.

[Preston]

A lot of our influence starts in our closet.

[Amanda Reed]

It.

[Preston]

It starts with, you know, personal intimacy with the Lord.

[Amanda Reed]

What. What do you. I'll answer by sharing a story. I think one of the hardest things to do when it comes to influence is when you have influenced somebody negatively.

[Preston]

Yeah.

[Amanda Reed]

And making that right. So I think. I think when you are a leader in any capacity, I think you have to make that type of stuff right. And that's hard. So I remember when. When Glory was happening, I wasn't moving as. It wasn't kind. I wasn't as present when it came to certain people on the team. And it was because I was just really focused on doing what I had to do. So I was.

[Preston]

Gloria is her conference that she ran.

[Amanda Reed]

I would show up, up, say, hi, how you doing? And then just kind of zone out. Right. And I remember when Dr. Sarita came on, she challenged me about that, and she was like, as a leader, you can't just go inside of yourself. Like, you have to, like, be present and intentional and all the stuff. And I remember it felt like a blind spot that I didn't see. Like, I really didn't realize that I was, like, lacking love in the way that I was leading. And so, like, I pulled the team together and I just apologized and cried. Like, I was like, like, I'm sorry. Like, I didn't mean to, you know, miss you or not see you or not, ask about you. And it's like, that's humbling. It's humiliating. But that also is a form of influence, is people seeing how you rebound after, like, doing something wrong. Like, people need to not just see your victory, but also your repentance. That is a, like, a very influential thing. Because I think that's. I think there's power. Even though it's painful, I think there's power in people seeing how you respond to your mistakes.

[Preston]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think there's. I think A big part of stewarding our influence is humility. Because I do. I don't think that people need to see us be perfect because we're not. I think they need to see that, that you have a dependency on a perfect God. And so I think that's like, that actually encourages people more than we. We probably understand. Like, I, I told this story before, you know, on the podcast when I was talking about, about, you know, the book or whatever. How I was led to the Lord is by seeing the dude who led me to, to the Lord fail, like in his moral failure. I saw a great dependency on the Lord and it showed me I don't depend on God like that.

[Amanda Reed]

Yeah.

[Preston]

And so I think God gets glory, you know, not out of our perfection, but our dependency. Right. And so I think that, like when we have like, and, and that only comes with humility.

[Amanda Reed]

Yeah.

[Preston]

Like when we are humble, we realize that, no, I'm not perfect. I can't do everything on my own.

[Amanda Reed]

Yeah.

[Preston]

And so that, that there has to be a great depend the Lord to help me. And I think people are like, they're blessed by that. God is glorified.

[Amanda Reed]

But what's crazy is even the humility that I try, I am not a humble person, but the humility that I try to walk in comes by way of me being influenced by humble people. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So it's not even.

[Preston]

Can I correct you, though? You are. You are humble person.

[Amanda Reed]

Person. Christ is humble. You through me.

[Preston]

No, no, no.

[Amanda Reed]

I just told you yesterday that I am so arrogant and I need God's help.

[Preston]

But that's, but can I. But can I encourage you, though? Humble, that's. It's so much humility. And, and when you told me that it wasn't you fishing for a compliment. No, it wasn't you. Listen, it wasn't you fishing for a compliment.

[Amanda Reed]

That's what I got in the secret place. Yeah.

[Preston]

Yeah. It wasn't you fishing for a compliment.

[Amanda Reed]

A servant is not greater than his master. I said you are right. Right. Savior.

[Preston]

Right. It wasn't. It wasn't you fishing for a conference wash feet. It wasn't you trying to be fake humble.

[Amanda Reed]

I don't know who feed a lot of people.

[Preston]

A lot of people be humble, but they be proud about it. I'm so humble. It's like, actually, you're not.

[Amanda Reed]

They be saying humble.

[Preston]

I'm so humble.

[Amanda Reed]

You need to be humble about your pronunciation.

[Preston]

Oh, Lord me, Lord me. And it's like, no, you, you actually, the, the The. The people that, you know, the Bible talks about, like, you pray in front of everybody so everybody can see and like you to need to fast and go wash your face and let nobody know about it or whatever, you know? But, like, I've seen you, like, pursue God and I've seen you cry out for humility, and I've seen him answer.

[Amanda Reed]

Yeah.

[Preston]

You know what I'm saying? And so, like, I think I need some more. I think. Yeah. I think all the ways in which you don't feel humble, is that the Lord showing you the parts of you that. That, that's not like him.

[Amanda Reed]

Yeah.

[Preston]

But in that, you become so much like him. You've. You've apologized when you're wrong. You've had so many hard convers this year. You stewarded your influence, I think privately in many ways better than you have publicly, which as your husband, I think I'm just really proud of you for that. You've like, like, you've had so many hard conversations.

[Amanda Reed]

You've.

[Preston]

You've. You've apologized when you were not in the wrong. You have apologized even when people made you cry. And like, I think, man, I think God is very pleased with you because I know I am now, so I receive that. Yeah, thanks.

[Amanda Reed]

That's humility.

[Preston]

Yeah, that's humility.

[Amanda Reed]

I'm working on receiving.

[Preston]

You've. You've. You've had. You've had a little rough season, bucko.

[Amanda Reed]

No, life has been hard.

[Preston]

But you.

[Amanda Reed]

You.

[Preston]

You're a humble. You're a humble woman.

[Amanda Reed]

But I just want to add the point I was trying to make is that you also learn humility by way of influence being. Being like Paul said, follow me as I follow Christ. And so I think having good, humble godly leaders, good, humble godly friends, good, humble godly resources even, can all influence us in a direction that's more Christ oriented than not.

[Preston]

For sure.

[Amanda Reed]

So for sure, I think that's it.

[Preston]

This is a good conversation.

[Amanda Reed]

I think so. We could have said more, but you gotta pack. Yeah. You pretty. Thank you.

[Preston]

I'm gonna kiss socialist while I leave for the airport.

[Amanda Reed]

Bye. Peace with the Pairs is produced by the Pairs with support from Amanda reed and Chani McBride. Video recording and audio production by Kim Powell, Abishai Perez and Xavier Fairley Edited by the team at Tread Lively. Artwork by Hop and music by Swoop. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.