← With The Perrys
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- [00:00]
A
Well, the holidays have come and gone once again.
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But if you've forgotten to get that.
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Special someone in your life a gift. Well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless. So here's the idea. You get it now, you call it an early present for next year. What do you have to lose? Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch limited time, 50% off regular price for new customers. Upfront payment required $45 for 3 months, $90 for 6 month or $180 for 12 month plan taxes and fees. Extra speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes per month when network is busy see terms.
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It's the saints in the A. It's the saints in the end.
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Bust out the saints in the A song.
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B
It's the saints in the end.
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A
Why she put a little lip gloss on? My lip gloss is popping. My lip gloss is cool.
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B
It's lip conditioner.
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A
Remember we saw it's the saints in the end. Speaking of Lil Mama, remember we saw Little Mama in the restaurant in la.
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B
You brought this up before, but. Yeah, I did. I know we've had a lot of episodes through the year, so you wouldn't. You wouldn't recall it. It doesn't matter.
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A
It doesn't matter.
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B
May the Lord bless.
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A
And you just took all the win out of that little story.
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B
It's okay.
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A
It's all good. Anyway, bust my little bubble.
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B
Hope you still.
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A
I don't know what we talking about.
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B
What people don't know is we usually shoot in the morning but because we had guests that needed to join us later, we are shooting what is at 3:50. Usually we shoot. Our schedule is like 10 to 3. We try to do it like a work day.
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A
Jackie's a big schedule person. Like she's. Everything has to be like.
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B
It doesn't have to. It just is helpful. And my point is we are winding down. Like this is.
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A
Speak for yourself.
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B
It's almost four. It's dark outside.
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A
It's not dark outside. It's just dark.
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B
It's getting dark.
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A
It's only cause it's a rainy day, but it's not getting dark outside.
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B
You sound exasperated.
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A
I'm just saying. I'm just saying it ain't dark. I'm just. Cause really what it is. You're winding down because you're an old woman.
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B
I'm not an old woman.
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A
You be going to sleep.
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B
I need rest.
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A
Jackie needs if you know anything about animals.
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B
Wow.
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Not saying you're an animal. You're a beautiful woman. I'm so Glad I'm here.
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B
I'm a mammal.
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A
You a mammal. But lions, they sleep, like, large amounts of the day.
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B
So you're saying I'm a powerful woman. Right?
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A
The male lions actually sleep the most because they eat a lot of feet, food. They got to dig you. You. You sleep like the way you can fall asleep on cue. It's just.
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B
Yeah, because what am I waiting around for?
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A
But it's like you and sleep. You have a. You have a special relationship with sleep. Like, you. Like you don't.
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B
Well, you know, my dad wasn't in my life, but I heard he did too.
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He slept like that.
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B
I heard that he was like a deep sleeper. Like he could just sleep.
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A
Yeah. Cause, I mean, but you gotta think about it.
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B
When you're struggling with melancholic. That's what they used to call depression. When you struggle with melancholic, when you're a deep thinker, when you're always processing something. I think it might be a mercy of God that he's like, let me actually help you have some rest.
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A
Let this brain grow. Grow.
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B
That's where I get some level of peace.
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A
That's actually very true. Because your brain is always going, yeah. And I'm like, jackie, we.
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B
I say all that.
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A
I want documentaries.
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B
It ain't no new ones out. I say all that to say I'm tired. But we gonna talk about sex.
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A
Let's talk about sex, baby. Let's talk about.
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B
I'm letting you lead this conversation. Cause you initiated it, so I really don't know what we're talking about.
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A
Oh, my goodness.
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B
I just know when we're talking about sex.
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A
Oh, no, no. What really inspired me to. We was just doing. We just did Sadie Robinson's podcast. And I was driving and I saw she posted us and, you know, collabed us on a post. Post or whatever. And part of the podcast where we talked about sex. And you were saying on Sadie's, you know, podcast, like, man, like this idea that we have to try it before we buy it, that we have to have sex before marriage.
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B
And.
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A
And I know we talked about sex before on our podcast. Like, I did. I think we did like a podcast called the Things We Wish We Knew About Sex. But, you know, I think during the pandemic, what I started to see was a lot of people getting booed up and a lot of people not in the church communities and being comfortable living with one another. And this idea that, you know, how do I supposed to know if my husband can make love? Well, if I don't try before marriage. You know, vice versa. How am I supposed to know? Can she please me? Is God going to, you know, be upset if I tried a little bit? And I think we've just become a little looser with how we view holiness in that way. How we view God, how we view our bodies, all the things. And so I was like, man, maybe it's good for us to have a conversation. Because I think, you know, this conversation can be condemning in a little way. Like, you know what I'm saying? Because people who made mistakes, and I don't want it to be this, but I was like, man, maybe we can add some.
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B
So you want to talk about sexual immorality? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because we had a conversation about sex within the covenant of marriage, which is legal, but we kind of touch on sexual immorality, which is sex that is outside the covenant, or there's sexual immorality within covenant. You know, like pornography, just perversion, stuff like that. But particularly we want to deal with the. Just that topic as it relates to people living out their singleness and just, I guess, how we've navigated the things. Because one thing I think people need to know is that even though God forgives, there's still consequences.
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A
Talk about that. What are the consequences? Because I don't think people consider the consequences or even think about them.
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B
I mean, when you horny, you're not. You're not thinking about how this act, that memory will show up when you're actually with somebody else in the marriage bed. You don't think about that. You know what I'm saying? And so I think stuff like just knowing that every decision we make, even if God covers, even if God forgives, there is a sense in which you will have to work through the door that you open. And one time I was at a conference for teen girls and I really felt the Lord leading me to tell them. I was like, I don't want any of you to believe the lie. That one you have to try before you buy it. That you need to be experienced, et cetera, et cetera. Or that you want to get rid of this church girl image when you get to college. And because you want to fit in or because you want to look a certain kind of way, you start opening up all kinds of doors.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And I'm like, because even though in God's kindness, he will close the door, you still got to deal with the consequences of what you've been exposed to. For example, when Eve was presented with a lie from Satan, hey, if you eat of this fruit, you will be like God, knowing good and evil. She thought that she would be like God in a sense of, oh, I'll know wisdom. I'll know all this stuff. She didn't know that having a knowledge of good and evil would actually kill the world. And so she. Her eyes was open. Her eyes were opened in a way that God was actually protecting her from. And I think that's what's hap. What happens when we play with sin, and especially sexual sin, is that your eyes do get open. I've had experiences that I wish I didn't have at the moment. It was fun. It was cool, but now I'm always having to work through that stuff.
- [07:49]
A
Yeah, yeah, I just said a whole lot. But. No, you said a whole lot of good stuff. Because I think essentially what you're saying is man, like God, creates beautiful things, but when we do it outside of his design, we get exposed in ways that is harmful to us. Because what Eve did, she got exposed to something that she shouldn't have been exposed to.
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B
She over here looking at her body like, yuck. That body, she didn't have. No, I was about to say electrolytes. What do you call it? What's it called, Brianna, when you're.
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A
Cellulite.
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B
Yeah. She had no cellulite. She had no stretch marks. She had. Her body was fine, literally. But it's like all of a sudden, now I even see myself in a way that I hadn't seen before. And I would have been good if I didn't eat that fruit because I was listening to the devil.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. That's good. What would you say is, you know, like, some of the. Cause you briefly mentioned it, but what would you say? Some of the consequences that goes into your marriage when you make those decisions?
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B
So I'm sorry, go ahead.
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A
Yeah. To, like, have sex outside of marriage or even dibble and dabble.
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B
Well, not everybody knows us that's watching this. Right? So maybe we also need to give some clarity to our experience, which is, I was a lesbian, I was gay. I was with women. I also watched porn from the age of seven till I became a Christian. So seven to 19, I was watching porn often. I was not with men. And so my first sexual experience with a man is with you, God.
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A
Let's praise God for that.
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B
But it was because I was gay. It wasn't because I was pure hilarious. That's honestly the only reason. But, hey, God uses all things. And so that's my experience. Your experience is that you were also Exposed to sexual sin when you were.
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A
So, yeah, my experience was I was exposed to pornography probably at the age of six. And I lost my virginity when I was 12 to my grandmother's foster child who was a couple years older but already had, you know, an abortion. Very, you know, sexually active and all the things. And then just growing up, I just had a lot of sexual partners, you know. And so by the age I was 14, I had multiple sexual partners at the age 14. And so just. Just grew up just in a very sexual, broken environment, home, you know. And yeah, often early on in my Christian walk, I wrote poems about how, like, I found my identity in sex, all of the things found my identity in women. And, you know, sexual brokenness is a. Was a thing for us.
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B
Yeah, cereal is delicious. And I, I think, you know, you get your little bowl, put you a little cereal. I personally like to put ice in my cereal. I don't like warm milk. At the point that it gets warm, I don't want it anymore. It starts to feel weird, like I'm eating porridge. And so talking about Magic Spoon is good because we want to eat cereal that's good for us. Every serving of Magic Spoon high protein cereal has 13 grams of protein, 0 grams of sugar, and 5 grams of net carbs. So it actually keeps you fueled any time of the day. The cereal comes in nostalgic flavors like fruity hot chocolate, cinnamon toast and frosted. And they just added two new flavors, which are classic marshmallow and s'. Mores. Magic Spoon also has high protein treats that are a crispy, crunchy way to get 12 grams of protein on the go. And they come in a lot of different flavors.
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A
I personally like the fruity flavor probably because I like to eat candy. And so I like to eat, you know, fruity, you know, cereal. But that fruity flavored, you know, cereal is really, really good. And it gives you protein. So you can have a bowl of cereal and then hit the gym and.
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A
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B
So that gives you context on, I think, why we kind of have a sense of what we're talking about. Cause it's two sexually broken people who came together in a covenant. You know what I'm saying? And so I think with my experience, I think pornography in a real way did a doozy on me. And one particular thing I don't hear about a lot is pornography really affected the way I viewed my own body, you know, because you think you're just watching the sexual act, but you're also watching women with a particular kind of body. When I was a lesbian, people weren't seeing my body because I was a stud. And so, you know, that's a whole nother dynamic. But people weren't seeing, seeing my body. It was, it was you. And it was those images that would kind of be circulating in my mind about, huh, I wonder if my body is good enough. I wonder if my body is enticing enough. I wonder if because the. On these videos they stuff be looking a certain kind of way. And then you look at yourself, it'd be like, shoot, I'm 26. And, and, and my areolas are touching my belly, but I don't know what to do. So then, God forbid you have babies now. You get what I'm saying? And your body just changes and it starts to indict even the way you view yourself. And so I think that's even just one very simple consequence of sexual sin.
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A
Yeah, yeah. Particularly pornography is such a perversion of true intimacy that God wants us to experience in the four walls of marriage because it just paints an unrealistic picture. And, and because it paints an unrealistic picture, it gives us unrealistic expectations for our spouse. Especially because men, we're just 50% visual people. Like, we just like, we're very visual. And so it is unfair to put standards, you know, on your wife when you literally watching people act, act, you know, perform, perform. But just even giving your body to somebody else outside of the four walls of marriage, I think that we really just have to TR God's design because, like, because marriage is holy and sacred. God wants us to experience that. The, like, the, like the first time in the, in the confounds of marriage. Now, I know some of us don't have that testimony, but at the same time, it's like, even if you're out there with this idea that no, we, we can just do what, whatever we want to do with our bodies now, and it doesn't really matter. It actually does matter. You don't want to. Like one of the things I tell men, it's not just porn, but just don be out here becoming one with everybody because all of those experiences you're going to bring into your marriage and it's going to be unfair to the person that you're Married to. You know what I'm saying? You don't want to be married to this person, but you're comparing her thighs to that one. You know what I'm saying? You're comparing, you know, the way she did this. And so, like, there's a wisdom and there's a protection in God's design, you know? And I know some people got, you know, history like ours. God is still a redeemer of that.
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B
Yeah, we gonna get to the redemption. No worries. Yeah, yeah. It won't be over.
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A
Just don't be out here becoming, you.
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B
Know, we gonna get to the gospel. But we also had to establish the bad news. I think even though I was not a virgin with. In the purest sense of the word, I don't think any of us really are, but I with. You know, I wasn't a virgin with women. I was a virgin with men. I think one thing I realized the benefit of that was is that, like, I don't have to work through. I have to work through memories, but I don't have to work through certain memories with you.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know what I'm saying? And I've always wondered, like, man, I bet it's a lot of people really wrestling with memories, even mid act. Yeah.
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A
I mean.
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B
It'S warfare.
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A
The beautiful thing is I don't have that testimony with you because I was with women, you know, and in early years I did, and it was something that I had to fight through the first and second year. But the great thing is, God is a redeemer. Even your memories.
- [16:37]
B
But talk through that, though, because you might have some people who are married now and who had partners before, and they're like, do I tell my partner this? Do I confess that? How do I work through thinking about other people? And you don't even want to. That's why I say some of that is warfare. You don't even want to, but you're not. You wrestling with that while you're mid intimacy.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know this book was about trauma. The body keeps a score, but I think it relates to sex, too. The body actually does keep the score. Like, you cannot become one. Like, the Bible talks about how when we become one with a prostitute that we've become, you know, like, almost like one. Like, we become one with that person. You cannot do an act that intimate with another human being and think that your body won't even remember it, you know, even if your mind is not trying to. And it's unfair to. It's actually not just unfair to Your spouse, it's unfair to you. And so for me, I had to, you know, I had to talk to brothers about it. I had to talk to my pastor about it. And I was advised not to bring it to you early on in our marriage because you probably couldn't handle it, you know. And so I'm glad that I had wise counsel. But I also was encouraged by leadership that, that God is a. Is a restorer for even my memory like that, that God can restore.
- [18:06]
B
There's a song where that ad lib is, you're giving me new memories.
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A
Yeah, you can, you can give me new memories and also give like, like created me a holiness and a righteousness that makes me like make the. Those memories are disgusting to me. It's not. It's not. It's not a memory that comes and entices me, but it. Memory that comes and be like, you know, I'm glad I'm actually with the woman that I love, that I'm attracted to and all the things. And then two. Yeah, like, I want you to speak on though, because when we did Sadie's podcast in Louisiana, you talked about, you know, the benefits. One, you talked about the downfall of not like trying it before you buy it, but then you talked about the benefits of being in a marriage and having time to actually learn your spouse. And I think sometimes we don't give our marriage even the room and the space because what I didn't have with all of those women in the world is I didn't have time to make it the best I actually can I have that in marriage.
- [19:09]
B
And so or nor did you have the holy spirit to help. Yeah, because you're in rebellion. We kind of talked about this on our. One of our conversations about what I wish I knew about sex, but I think it's good to reiterate it, which is that when I see on Threads or when I see on TikTok this kind of offense at the idea of waiting till your marriage married. Cause it's like, why would I wait? And I don't know what I'm getting myself into sexually. You know, I don't know what he got, I don't know what she got. I don't know if they know what they doing. I don't. It's like this. It seems foolish to find out that maybe my partner isn't the sexual beast and giant I wanted them to be. And I think it is. Is lustful. I think it is ignorant. And I think it is not in consideration of what it means to actually Be in a lifelong covenant, which is that in a covenant two people are coming together under God to learn one another. That's that the process of becoming one is the process of learning and curiosity.
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Yeah.
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B
And so it is. It's like the whole point is for us to get to know each other and learn each other with each other. You know what I'm saying? There's joy in that, in figuring one another out sexually, intellectually, spiritually, domestically. Oh, you don't know how to put the cap on the milk. I just learned that like. Like the whole thing is about learning. But one of the things that really shifted my mind in this direction is when I had talked to a woman who. This is probably year three. No, not even. I was pregnant with eden. So year one and this woman, she had been married for 20 years and she said by year 10 there was a shift in our marriage because my husband was functioning with me at 40, like how he functioned with me at 30. She was like, but I'm not the same woman I was at 30, I'm a different woman at 40. And so I have to be. And it's not like I'm Jekyll and Hyde. It's simply a 40 year old is different than a 30 year old. A 50 year old is different than a 40 year. So that also means that the sex will be different. My body is different, my experiences are different. I might actually have new traumas, I might actually have new joys. And so I think when you consider that aspect of marriage, it should actually show you like, oh, the whole thing will be about learning one another.
- [21:40]
A
That's really good.
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B
That's it.
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A
That's really good. And I think people, we're just so impatient with process, you know, the world, I think it conditions us to want everything right now. I gotta know if he can do this right now. But if God is blessing this union, he is giving you time to learn a person. And I think that sometimes we just underestimate the benefits of being able to learn a person.
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B
And then I'm gonna say something that sound crazy if you. But it gots to be said. I'm awake.
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A
I was just gonna say but if you.
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B
I like your pants.
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A
Thank you. But even if you have sex with a person and you like it, you blinded by that. That's the reason why you should wait. Because if a dude know how to lay it down good, if a girl know how to do things good. But you actually don't even take the time to know them personally. Sex is such a wrong motive.
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B
Not even take the time to learn the person. We're talking about marriage. I know you shouldn't be doing it.
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A
But what I'm saying is I think sometimes people cause sex, sometimes blinds us.
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
That's what I'm saying.
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B
It's sin and oxytocin. Yeah.
- [22:51]
A
So giving your body away to somebody that you haven't said I do, you can be blinded by how good the sex is. And then you get in marriage and that stuff wears off, and then you realize you don't like them.
- [23:04]
B
Yeah.
- [23:09]
A
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- [24:02]
B
So I think. I think that's a little separate. I want to address that. I still want to lay. Lean into people.
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A
Don't lean into it. I just want to. I just want.
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B
I would. I still want to lean into people feeling like they have to try before you buy it and not considering the curiosity and the process of learning within Covenant. Because I think this is gonna sound crazy, but I just think it's. It's practical. It's like, let's say you marry. You marry somebody. Let's say y' all didn't smash before y' all got married, and y' all wait and stuff like that, and you marry somebody who was very sexually active. Nine times out of ten, that man is gonna think them. Seven. Seven special moves that he did on Tisha is gonna blow you away. But at the end of the day, that bottom half of your body, your bottom half, is different than her bottom half.
- [24:56]
A
Yeah.
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B
And so just because you baked the cake in that pan and it worked, that don't mean that I got the same pan. Hello. And so that's the best way I could describe.
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A
Cause all pans is not tight as other pans.
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B
I wasn't talking about that. I'm Simply saying, and all cakes is not me. How you put the batter in that pan may not apply to how you supposed to put the batter in this pan. I get that you might have been talented out there, but you still got to learn me.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So what that means is we got to communicate.
- [25:33]
A
Yeah. Hello.
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B
It reminds me of when, before we got married, and I told Brian, Brian was like, do you want to share bank accounts? And I was like, nah. And he was like, why not? I was like, because it's my money. And he was like, oh. He was like, so you want to be kind to one flesh? And what I realized is sharing bank accounts provokes you and forces you to communicate.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And so being ignorant on some level about what you like and what you don't like, and it forces you to talk. And what happens when people talk, they get closer. So that's where the oneness is formed, is because we're communicating about each other's needs. So I'm saying, don't come into the presumption thinking, oh, I was. I was knocking them down in the world that ma. The Lord might actually make the stuff that used to work for every other woman not work for yours. So you can learn her.
- [26:28]
A
That's a word.
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B
That's all I'm saying.
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A
That's a word. That's a word. I got a couple of different directions I want to go, but can I.
- [26:35]
B
Ask you a question? Absolutely. Because. Because I can see a lot of men feeling real insecure about what I said. They not gonna admit it. Cause y' all wanna come into situation feeling like boss hog.
- [26:49]
A
Yeah.
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B
Y' all wanna come into. So it takes some humility to say, when you get married to her, it might take you a year to actually satisfy her.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Because you have to learn her.
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A
So with my guys and the dudes that I disciple, we have very real expectations. We cast very real expectations. We tell people like, yo, don't think that you finish. Just come in. Just being. I, I, I, I'm trying to.
- [27:18]
B
They know what we saying.
- [27:19]
A
Yeah. Like a beast like you, you, you like, like, learn her. Like, you don't like. It's because, you know. And then a lot of men that I discipled, or even men that some of my friends disciple, and we'd be sitting around talking, especially, you know, a lot of these church boys who haven't had a lot of experience. It's like, in theory, you think that you something, but it's like, one, you gotta learn women, and you have to learn that woman. And you probably don't even know how to do things right, first of all, Jesus, you know what I'm saying? And so I can see the temptation. I can see the temptation of them wanting to kind of try it before they buy, to see or to watch stuff or to watch stuff or whatever. Then that just perverts your mind. But it's just like, no. At the end of the day, like, I think the world has conditioned us to find identity in how well we perform sexually. That's one of the things. So I want a woman to know I can tear down and, you know, all the things. And it's like, no. Like, if you're marrying a woman that loves you, she loves you. She doesn't just love what you can do for her and how you can make her feel, but she's also going to be patient with you, right? If she really loves you. And so, one, you shouldn't even go into your marriage with these worldly, like, expectations that the world kind of put on you. You should go in your marriage free, you know what I'm saying? Because actually, it's that freedom that's gonna make you have a better sex life, not your ego. Cause it's like, you gotta ask, like, when I did that, did it feel good? And because you're trying to mimic what you saw in porn up, right? You're not even. You're not even paying attention to your. Her. And so when her body start doing something, you didn't keep doing it, or you got to keep it up. But see, you. You trying to mimic. You trying to. You.
- [29:15]
B
Oh, goodness, this is so.
- [29:17]
A
You don't even know how to pay attention to a woman's body.
- [29:19]
B
But those be the things. It's like, she ain't even moving. You are. You're doing it to a corpse and you think you is killing it. And it's like, no, you're enjoying this, buddy.
- [29:32]
A
Yeah, right, Right. And so I. So I think. I think my leg is stiff.
- [29:40]
B
Leg ain't shook one time.
- [29:43]
A
You ain't never had one of these.
- [29:45]
B
Okay. I'm just saying it's a real conversation.
- [29:49]
A
It's a real conversation.
- [29:50]
B
The whole point we're trying to make, we might have to edit some of this out. Keep it in.
- [29:57]
A
I think what I'm trying to say is don't go into marriage. Men with an ego problem even be humble in that. Because if you go into your marriage humble, you might actually have something to be proud of. For real.
- [30:13]
B
That's good.
- [30:14]
A
You know what I'm saying? You want your wife to Enjoy you for real.
- [30:16]
B
That's good.
- [30:17]
A
You know what I'm saying? And so, like. And that sometimes take time, you know what I'm saying? Cause every woman is not the same.
- [30:23]
B
Nor is every man the same.
- [30:25]
A
And every man is not the same.
- [30:26]
B
Y' all are more simple. But it just. It really don't take much. It don't take much.
- [30:31]
A
I kind of just want to say this truthfully. In my sexual brokenness, you tried to.
- [30:37]
B
Ignore what I was saying.
- [30:38]
A
What'd you say? I didn't hear it.
- [30:39]
B
That's okay.
- [30:40]
A
I missed it. What you say?
- [30:41]
B
They heard it.
- [30:42]
A
Okay, I hear it on the playback. What I was going to say is doing my sexual brokenness, one of the things that really helped me. Me heal, but also understand the heart of God and get over a lot of sexual temptation in my Christian walk. It's just doing a deep study of the body, a theological study of the body. Because I think some people might have this temptation to think, man, like, why does God care that much? Like, why does God care? And it's like, no, he really. Like, he does, right? In First Corinthians 6, it talks about, like, fleeing sexual immorality. And it talks about. At the end of verse six, I think starting at the 19th verse, it says, or do you not know that your bodies are temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? And so we know, like, in ancient days, the temples were a place where that was holy, that was sacred, you know what I'm saying? You couldn't just come in and defile the temple, you know what I'm saying? Because it was a holy place. And now the Bible talks about God Spirit not just dwelling in the place, but dwelling in the people of God. And so we have to understand that God truly cares about our bodies because of what it houses. It houses the Holy Spirit, you know what I'm saying? But then not only that, it talks about in First Corinthians, early on in the verse, I think verse 14, it says. No, verse 13, I think it starts. It says, no, verse 14, it says, and God raised the Lord from the dead. And also he raises up with the same power. And so, like, I love that because, you know, it talks about how, like, it compares God raising his son from the dead, but it also says in the same way he raised his son from the dead, he will raise us from the dead. And it shows us that God even cares about our bodies enough to not even allow it to.
- [32:41]
B
To decompose.
- [32:43]
A
To decompose that he will resonate eternally. Yeah. When he comes back, he's just not going to come back for our spirits and our souls. He's actually going to raise his body from the dead and give us a new body. And so we out here just doing anything that we want to do with our bodies. It's like you just giving your body to her as if God doesn't truly care about it. You know what I'm saying? And I love the fact that God just doesn't care about our souls and our spirit. No, he's saying if your body is precious, and not only is your body precious to me, but your body is mine, you just can't do anything that you want to do with the body that I gave you, you know, and so I think that, you know, doing just a deep study of, like, how God cares for the. Cares for the body.
- [33:29]
B
No, I. I think that's helpful because we just. We don't think about our bodies a lot. You know.
- [33:41]
A
You think about our souls, you think about our spirits, but it's like, no, our bodies are significant.
- [33:45]
B
Well, when you're in the flesh, you're thinking about yourself.
- [33:50]
A
Yes.
- [33:51]
B
But you're not thinking about how yourself has been bought, which includes your body. You know, like, by the mercies of God. Surrender your body or submit your body as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto God. You know what I'm saying? Like, Jesus gave us not just his soul, he gave us his body. When we take communion, we are remembering a body being broken. When Adam was made, he. He was not a living being until God breathed into him. And God breathed into a body, and out of that body, he brought Eve into a. Like, the body matters. And we are not going to. Just like you said, we. When we die, we're not going to be these, like, ethereal ghosts just floating around doing nothing, saying, hallelujah, thank you, Jesus all. Like we are going to be saying, hallelujah, thank you, Jesus, through a body that lifts its hands, that hugs its neighbor, that can touch the grass, that can see, that can taste, that can smell. You get what I'm saying?
- [34:55]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:56]
B
This. But I want to affirm the difficulty of experiencing desires within this body.
- [35:06]
A
Yeah.
- [35:06]
B
Because that's a part. That's some of the. The, the work is that we, we love to obey our bodies more than we obey the. That's not even sexuality. That just might be. You know, you made me feel some type of way. So I use this body, I use this mouth to say how I feel. I'm obeying my anger instead of obeying.
- [35:27]
A
The Scriptures, slave to sin instead of slave righteousness.
- [35:29]
B
Yeah. And that's what Romans says in chapter six. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members as bodies, fingers, eyes, to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. And so the Lord wants to use your body.
- [35:57]
A
Yeah, that's good.
- [35:59]
B
Think of what I'm saying. He wants to you. So, for example, have any of you ever been at the altar or been at church and you are weeping or you are going through something and somebody doesn't just come and communicate hope to you, they hug you. And it's something about their. Their body that communicates strength. It's something about their arms, their hands, the pressing them into your body where you feel God's nearness. That is what it means to be used as an instrument of righteousness, that the Lord wants to use the you who was contained in a body.
- [36:36]
A
That's so beautiful. Yeah, it's so beautiful. Because I think what we.
- [36:39]
B
I feel like I have to overemphasize it because we don't talk about it. It's just anthropology.
- [36:43]
A
We don't talk about anthropology. We don't talk about the study of the body and how God cares about it. Because what we're essentially trying to pull out is how precious our bodies is. Our sin and flesh does not make us meditate on the preciousness of our bodies. It only wants us to satisfy our bodies.
- [37:00]
B
Correct.
- [37:01]
A
And God is saying, the way you're satisfying your body is actually devaluing your body.
- [37:06]
B
Right, Correct.
- [37:07]
A
And so. And that's the reason why I love what First Corinthians says, that our bodies, our bodies are the Lord's and the Lord cares for our bodies.
- [37:15]
B
Let's draw out the word he uses. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord. Meaning there is purpose for your body.
- [37:26]
A
Absolutely purpose.
- [37:27]
B
We love that word. We be going to conferences and got it in the subtitle.
- [37:30]
A
But I love that. But I also love how it says our bodies are not the Lord and the Lord cares for our bodies and he will raise us from the dead. As he rose Christ from the dead, the fact that he compared our resurrection to Jesus. Resurrection. Like we didn't resurrect and save the whole world. Right. But I'm saying in the same way this God became human, this God took on a human body. Right. Like Jesus resurrection meant something like his body raising from the dead meant something like God just didn't care about his soul coming back to be with him forever in eternity. He actually cared for the body of Christ. I think about, you know, when Jesus is in Bethany and the woman Mary comes in with the alabaster flask of pure nard and pours all of the oil over Jesus body. And they got mad at her. And Jesus says, why do you trouble her for? She has done a beautiful thing for me. She has anointed my body beforehand for burial. And truly, I say unto you, wherever the gospel is told throughout the whole earth, what she has done will be told in memory of her. And so even his Jewish burial meant something, right? For his body, to be honest, honored even after death. Right. And so we see that our body, it means a lot. Like, right? In Isaiah, it was prophesied that Jesus's body will be buried in a rich man's tomb. And then we see in the New Testament that Joseph, Arimathea, he comes and fulfilled this testament right. And so we see that bodies mean something. And so, like, I think when I started to just study like the body and how much God cares about it, I think for me it clicked how much God is hurt when I just give my body to anybody, when I just give my body to just a woman because I'm horny. And it's like, I care so much about your body that I'm going to resurrect it one day. And you just out here just sleeping with a girl because it makes your ego feel good.
- [39:29]
B
Because again, I think it's hard. Maybe we have to pray this into. I think it would be helpful for all of us to pray scripture. Scripture and say, lord, help me to not even merely just be convicted, pray that, but help me to really believe that my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. Because when you think of temples, when you think of sanctuaries, we're losing some of that because our sanctuaries feel like concerts, venues. But when you think of, of I. I think of the Baptist church that I went to when I was young and how 1. You couldn't dress every kind of way when you went up in there. You couldn't run around. You couldn't. You know, even if they were in the sanctuary and praying, they kept you.
- [40:19]
A
Out of the door. It was sacred.
- [40:20]
B
Yeah, like. Like you had to, like, wait to go in there. You couldn't dare go up to where the communion table was. There was a. There was a. A respect and a Reverence because of the plate. Like, that's different than Chuck E. Cheese. Chuck E. Cheese. You're supposed to run around, you're supposed to eat pizza. That's different than the club. You could, you could dress, you could drink. But a sanctuary, a temple. So that means that the Lord. And it's not merely, it's like you said, it's not merely because it's a body. It's because it's a body that houses God. And so, like, it's like the Lord has lifted the value of the body just by proxy of God's indwelling presence within it. And like, we need some type of revelation, I think, to be like, because we, quote, wrote this verse, like, oh, yeah, my body is simple. But even now, me saying it, I'm like, I don't be taking that verse serious enough.
- [41:06]
A
Yeah.
- [41:06]
B
Because even when it comes to gluttony, we don't take that verse serious enough. You understand it like, it's like, oh, even the way I eat now I love me some chicken. I'm not trying to create a law where you can't go to Cracker Barrel or Golden Corral. You understand what I'm saying? But I'm saying even our view of the body as a temple has mass implications, not just sexual.
- [41:30]
A
Absolutely. Side note, that's the reason why I be, like, so confused about Christians who be trying to condemn people for drinking a little wine. It's like you at Golden Corral eating all the biscuits, all the chicken, and it's like, you want to use that scripture. Your body's a temple. You shouldn't be doing that. It's like, why you keep eating Popeyes then if your body is a temple. One that scripture is talking about sexual immorality, not, you know what I'm saying, Your body is a temple. It's not talking about, it's just the way you went eating and drinking. But I was just refreshing, triggered. I was just reminded of that.
- [42:00]
B
I think you got triggered.
- [42:01]
A
No, I, no, I, I, I guess what I'm saying is I think gluttony is a huge part, is a huge stumbling block in the, in the church that we just don't talk about how.
- [42:13]
B
Many of us are dying from preventable diseases because we idolize food.
- [42:19]
A
Yeah.
- [42:20]
B
And so, but it's like, you can, and this isn't shade. I, I don't think it's like, you can have four plates, but because it's socially acceptable, it's like, you might as well knock down 16 shots.
- [42:34]
A
That's what I'M saying the church, we pick and choose how. How we want to shun people for honoring their body. It's like, we will. We will frown on somebody for putting some liquor in their body. But it's like, y', all, the church is not struggling from alcoholism in the way we're struggling for obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, all the things.
- [42:55]
B
It's like, check your A1C.
- [42:57]
A
You know what I'm saying? And so, like, I'm just saying, like, we gotta be consistent. Cause we not. We not.
- [43:04]
B
Well, where'd you want to go?
- [43:06]
A
I'm sorry.
- [43:08]
B
It's fine. It does have to be said. Cause I just be looking like, I think food might be an idol to you.
- [43:16]
A
Maybe we should do an episode on Glad Gluttony one day.
- [43:21]
B
We would have to invite someone who struggles with it.
- [43:23]
A
Yeah. Cause that's not our struggle. We got some struggles, but, you know, it ain't.
- [43:27]
B
I mean, I have my moments, but.
- [43:29]
A
You do have your moments.
- [43:30]
B
Truly. Truly. I'm not even.
- [43:31]
A
That bloody spirit rise up in you. No.
- [43:33]
B
I love me some food, but I'm not even gonna make it seem like I'm not a glutton because I'm more righteous. I can be vain, so it don't even be first Corinthians 6 in my life.
- [43:46]
A
You can starve yourself so your cheekbones.
- [43:47]
B
I can't see my cheekbones.
- [43:48]
A
She be like, my cheekbones. I'm eating for the next eight days.
- [43:53]
B
I have a threshold once I start to see a certain kind of. So it don't even. I don't. I love the Lord. I don't be thinking about the Lord. Somebody. It's like, I gotta. I. I want my clothes to fit.
- [44:03]
A
Because I'm gonna put you on blast, babe. The way Jackie be trying to conquer every plague.
- [44:09]
B
I love food.
- [44:10]
A
You love food.
- [44:11]
B
I think food is delicious. It is. I think it is one of God's greatest gifts. Yeah.
- [44:15]
A
You be like, I'm. I'm like, jackie, are you.
- [44:18]
B
Because it's something about food still being on the plate that feels like it's mocking me. When you got a good plate of.
- [44:28]
A
Food, it's mocking me.
- [44:30]
B
And it's like telling me, oh, you can't finish this. It's like, yeah, I can finish you, man. Yeah, I can.
- [44:36]
A
So you feel challenged?
- [44:37]
B
Not anymore. Because I've changed my eating habit significantly, so I don't feel it anymore. Because I genuinely. When you do eat a certain type of way, your stomach cannot.
- [44:47]
A
I don't think people understand. I don't know how we got on food when this is about sexual immorality. I'm sorry, but I don't think this is. I gotta say this. I don't think people understand what we're talking about because they've probably never seen you. Like, I know they haven't seen you.
- [45:00]
B
Well, I love food, but.
- [45:01]
A
No, you love food, but it's weird. I'm so. It's weird because at times we would be out to eat or like at the crib eating something that's real good and Jackie would be over there. Have you ever seen like them shows where people are in full competitions and they're clearly full, but they're trying to win a prize? It's like, that's the way you be looking. You be like. And I'm like, I'm like, you're full. You literally look like, I know that you're full.
- [45:39]
B
It tastes good.
- [45:39]
A
And you be over there, your head be bowed, you be like. It's like you're trying to.
- [45:43]
B
Because it's calling me on my name. You understand what I'm saying? It's disrespecting, expecting me. And it's like, oh, you know, you want this carbonara. And it's like, yeah, I do. Of course I do what you talk about. And so that's why I'm saying for me, I know my temperament, I know my weakness. But I'm. I'm only acknowledging I'm. Yeah, I'm But I'm acknowledging that the reason I'm not a glutton is really not out of righteous intentions. It's just I like my body to look a certain kind of way. But then also I'm trying to say, say like, yeah, I. I got it. Cuz it's all flesh at the end of the day.
- [46:17]
A
Like, it's not all, but it's also self.
- [46:19]
B
When you overe, it's also a fruit of the spirit.
- [46:21]
A
It also, it's fruit of.
- [46:22]
B
You're full. What you say you're full, but the body, when we eat certain foods, that's why we, we don't overeat. I don't know how we got here, but we don't overeat carrots. We don't over overeat Greek yogurt, we don't overeat kale because it does not produce. That's a word. It does not produce the same type of dopamine in our minds. Where we want more the sugar and the high glucose corn syrup and all this stuff. And so you're actually full, but you're just Being satisfied and satiated in a way that like is appealing to some type of pleasure thing in your brain. And that's, that's what we need to address is that it's like this is about feeling. Oh, there it is. Hold on. There it is. It's about feeling good.
- [47:07]
A
Yes, but look, the same thing. I'm, I'm going bring it back down to the sixth marine morality. Because the same thing, because we don't. Oh, we don't over indulge like we do in the world.
- [47:17]
B
We don't always talk about scripture. It's like, oh man, the bread of life.
- [47:24]
A
But what I'm. But, but what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is this is the reason why we should practice sex within marriage. Because it's not merely the sex outside of marriage. It's like sin is entirely enticing. It does kind of release like some dopamine.
- [47:42]
B
No, it doesn't. Oxytocin.
- [47:43]
A
And oxytocin, especially when we're doing something that we're not supposed to do, it lowers anxiety. So when you get into marriage and when you say I do this is the reason why you're so underwhelmed, you're so unsatisfied is because you didn't had all of these thrilling moments with sex outside of a safe covenant. And then when you get the same way with food, it's just like, because you've overindulged in it in a way that God did not want you to. Now eating, eating properly, it's not satisfying to you. But you know, the same thing can happen in sex. It's like that's the reason why it's made for marriage.
- [48:19]
B
That's what happens with addiction is that addiction you overwhelm the things that. I can't explain all of this, right, Just study addiction. You. Oh, like when you, if you do. I remember my dad telling me and my auntie, because they all did it. They were like, my first experience with coke was the most euphoric experience I've ever had.
- [48:46]
A
I've had people say that to me too.
- [48:47]
B
It was the most. But they said every other time I tried coke it was me chasing that one experience and I could never find it. And so what happens is what started as one line becomes two lines, becomes three lines. Because you're trying to chase that same high, you're trying to chase that same, same pleasure. But what ends up happening is the, the, the, the horrible part about addiction is that because you're chasing such a high, unnatural degree of Pleasure that is actually available to us in the new heavens and the new earth, because you're chasing that, all other pleasures become less pleasurable. That's what addiction does.
- [49:25]
A
Yeah.
- [49:26]
B
And so I think what you're saying is true, is that that's why the Lord puts boundaries around us, because he knows how greedy we are.
- [49:33]
A
Yeah.
- [49:33]
B
And he knows that my. Your body has actually not been made to. Your body has actually not been made for you to. To get, get, get, get, get, get, get. And what ends up happening is you can't even be content or satisfied when you get it the right way.
- [49:47]
A
Yeah, that's good. That's good. That's really good.
- [49:51]
B
Even though, you know, practicing sexual immorality in your members or in your mind comes with its own share of consequences, whether that I don't know. Yeah, it comes with stuff and it carries you and it can affect your marriage. That doesn't mean that it's the end all be all. You know what I'm saying? Because I think people can hear that and be like, dang, I slept with like 47 people. What I'mma do. You know what I'm saying? Or, man, I've watched a lot of porn. Or I watched it last week. Or like, feeling like their sexual past will. I guess, like, I'm too tired to really articulate what I'm trying to say. I'm basically trying to encourage the people. Yeah.
- [50:42]
A
Your past doesn't define you. And I would really encourage people to go listen to our poem One Flesh, because in our collaboration. Poem One Flesh.
- [50:51]
B
Is that what it's called?
- [50:52]
A
It's called One Flesh.
- [50:54]
B
It's not called the Fall. The One Flesh.
- [50:56]
A
The One Flesh poem. Not the Fall poem. The One Flesh poem.
- [50:59]
B
You know, I tried to take a nap today and you.
- [51:01]
A
Yeah, I did. I'm sorry I woke you up. You tired? But no, in our One Flesh poem, you talk about your sexual brokenness and I talk about my sexual brokenness and how God restored us. And, you know, I think. I think I actually love the fact that I'm married to a woman who God restored sexually, and I'm restored sexually. And our stories have been a testimony to people who have also, you know, been broken sexually. And I think the gospel shows us that, you know, God loves our obedience and our faithfulness to him, but also, too, when we don't have that story of purity, that he's a restorer of that too. And I think sometimes the church, you know, we can be so caught up with whether whatever spirit you find yourself in the Christian community, a church might focus a lot on the purity culture and, you know, and might not focus that much on the redeemable power of the Lord. And God is a redeemer. And so he can restore your mind. He can restore your heart. And so one thing that we don't want anybody to do is to feel shame or to feel like they're messed up or to feel like God cannot give you a great marriage with great sex, and you can enjoy your husband and your wife for the rest of your life. So the Lord call your home. Like, he can do that. You know what I'm saying? And he has done that, I think, with us and so many other people. We're just saying, if you have an opportunity to obey God, now do it.
- [52:29]
B
Yeah, for sure. Because the Lord redeems our past, he redeems our histories, and then sets us on mission. In light of that, I'm referencing John 4. When God meets with the woman at the well, we know this story. It says that he had to go to Samaria. He meets with a Samarian woman, half Jew, half Gentile, and he enters into this conversation with her. And at some point in the conversation, he says, hey, go call your husband. And she like, I ain't got no husband. He like, you. You sure right about that. You done had five. And a lot of people teach this text to say that Jesus is calling attention to her moral impurity to expose her sin. I think that's a factor. But I also think when you look at the context of John, there are several instances where God reveals something as an avenue of revelation of Him. And so I think even when we have this discussion about our sexual histories or our sexual past, I don't think the Holy Spirit's aim is to leave you there. I think the Holy Spirit's aim is to say, how does your history reveal the nature of God? How does your history point to the Gospel? Because God covered you. God kept you. God saved you. And now perhaps God also wants to use you. Because this same woman, after she sees Jesus, in light of him showing her herself, she goes and tells everybody about him and tells on herself. Hey, I just met a man that told me everything I ever done. And so it's even him revealing her past that actually becomes the thing that's her testimony.
- [54:04]
A
I love that. That's so amazing.
- [54:05]
B
And so I just want to encourage y' all to say, like, you don't have to be ashamed in the sense of quiet about your story.
- [54:11]
A
Yeah.
- [54:12]
B
But actually ask the Holy Spirit, how do you want me to you let leverage what I've been through and what I've done to point to you.
- [54:18]
A
That's good. That's such a good. That's such a good point. Because I think some people can hear talks like this and automatically feel shame because they're thinking about their past. But what Jesus didn't do, he didn't leave that woman in her shame. He revealed her. He revealed her brokenness, but also revealed himself.
- [54:36]
B
Correct water that you know not of.
- [54:38]
A
Which allowed her to run to him. And so what we're do to trying, trying to say is ultimately God can use your sexual brokenness to show you himself. And that's what he's trying to do with all of our brokenness because at the end of the day, every human being is a broken human being. And it's, it's, it's. It's our brokenness that actually points us to Him. And so don't be ashamed of your. Your broken. Your broken sexual past, but know that God wants to use your. Your sexual broken past so he can show you himself.
- [55:05]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [55:05]
A
Are we done? That feel like. That feel like a close?
- [55:08]
B
Yeah, I think we're good. Bye. Peace with the Perries is produced by the Perrys with support from Amanda reed and Channing McBride. Video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairley. Edited by the team at Tread Lively. Artwork by Hop. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.