Storytime with Jackie

Summary

With The Perrys – "Storytime with Jackie"

Date: November 14, 2022
Hosts: Jackie Hill Perry & Preston Perry

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Overview

In this lively and candid episode of With The Perrys, Jackie Hill Perry shares several memorable stories from her past, with Preston Perry as the interviewer and cheerleader. The episode centers on personal transformation, vulnerability, and God’s grace as Jackie recounts moments of mischief, fear, and divine intervention from her pre-Christian life, all delivered with the Perrys’ signature humor and unfiltered honesty.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction: Setting the Storytime Vibe

Timestamps: 00:09 – 01:13

• The Perrys set a playful tone, poking fun at each other's slang and “storyteller” abilities.
• Preston expresses excitement for “storytime” episodes, insisting Jackie has the best stories.
• Jackie clarifies that while she doesn’t have many stories, “the few I have...are worth telling.” [01:02 – Jackie]

2. The Misdemeanor & Canada Debacle

Timestamps: 01:28 – 09:16

Story: Jackie almost wasn’t allowed into Canada due to a 10-year-old misdemeanor.

• Jackie admits to past theft driven by a shrewd, “efficient” approach: stealing outfits saved money for weed and going out. [02:06 – Jackie]

  “I used to steal all the time...if I steal the outfit, then I got money for the weed...Don’t it make sense?” [02:54 – Jackie]

• She emphasizes: “I’m not advocating for theft. Okay, let’s be clear. That grieves the Lord’s heart.” [03:25 & 03:30 – Jackie]
• Jackie skillfully describes avoiding theft detection, her “skills as a Christian communicator” having been used for crime before conversion.
• Details a botched theft at Macy’s with a friend; both are arrested and subjected to the humiliating “walk of shame” through the mall.
• After conversion, while on a ministry tour, Jackie discovers her record disqualifies her from entering Canada. She has to plead her case at the border and is only admitted due to intervention by her friends.

  “I promise I’m a new person. I’m changed. Like, we were doing my Instagram. I’m literally here for Jesus.” [08:47 – Jackie]

3. High School Fights, Fear, and “Not About That Life”

Timestamps: 09:32 – 16:18

Story: Jackie reflects on not being a fighter, despite growing up among people who were.

• Preston jokes about Jackie appearing tough but not actually being able to fight.

  “Jackie face falls like she can fight, but...she really can’t.” [09:34 – Preston]

• Jackie describes the anxiety of being perceived as weak or “soft” in a Black school environment:

  “You don’t want to be in school at a Black school—one, can’t fight, or soft. Those two things are just such bad categories to live in.” [10:10 – Jackie]

• She recounts being caught in the middle of a brewing group fight at a friend’s house, where the friend's mother prepares a sock filled with rocks as a weapon—escalating the tension.

  “She’s like...‘When people come on this door, I’m dropping them. If you ain’t ready to fight, you can get the F out.’” [13:27 – Jackie]

• Admits to plotting an escape: has her godbrother fake a call as her mom so she can leave without looking frightened. [15:11 – Jackie]
• Compares the constant need to defend herself as a teen to the relief of later being in Christ-centered communities, where “it was a relief to not have to always be on guard.” [16:18 – Jackie]

4. Spiritual Encounters: The Demon in the Bedroom

Timestamps: 17:20 – 21:22

Story: Jackie’s mother witnesses a demonic presence in Jackie’s room during her teen years.

• Described vividly:

  “‘She saw a figure...five feet tall...all black...leathery or reptilian...His hands were [through] the door, him peeking at her, then going back inside my room.’” [18:12 – Jackie]

• Jackie recounts being unnerved, sleeping with lights on, and continuing that habit into adulthood.
• Reflects on spiritual consequences:

  “Demons...have domain and they have liberty where darkness and sin exists. And so I wasn’t a Christian...I was opening myself up to all types of demonic stuff.” [19:53 – Jackie]

• Preston closes this with appreciation of God's providence:

  “Stories like that...it’s kind of creepy, but it’s also...encouraging to know that God had a plan for your life.” [21:04 – Preston]

5. Breaking Illusions: Vulnerability and Gender Identity

Timestamps: 21:50 – 25:39

Story: Jackie describes a moment in her “stud” lesbian identity where her sense of masculinity was shattered.

• While in a motel with her girlfriend, a threatening large man causes Jackie to realize her own vulnerability:

  “I am in this world where I’m living this illusion of being male or masculine...in this moment, I knew I was a woman. I knew I was vulnerable and I was weak and...I could not protect her and I could not protect myself.” [23:15 – Jackie]

• Reflects on God using the situation to confront her identity:

  “The Lord was using it to speak to my gender and my biology and how God had made me to exist and be—and how I was functioning completely opposite of that, which was not reality.” [24:48 – Jackie]

• Confesses that even in fear, she managed to create a diversion so she and her girlfriend could safely leave, without breaking the “hard” facade.

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Notable Quotes & Humorous Moments

• On Old Ways Fueling New Skills:

  “All of my skills as a Christian communicator and as a preacher, I had then—I was observant...I paid attention to people...” [03:53 – Jackie]

• On the "Walk of Shame" after shoplifting:

  “You just walk through the mall with handcuffs on. They gotta make an example out of you.” [08:02 – Jackie]

• On the DIY Weapon:

  “She got a sock, and she putting an eight ball and rocks in the sock...she finna swing on whoever come to this doorstep.” [13:27 – Jackie]

• On Seeking Escape from a Fight:

  “I text my godbrother, and I said, call me and act like you my mama.” [15:11 – Jackie]

• On Wrestling with Spiritual Reality:

  “I watch [porn] all the time. I love demonic music and I listen to it all the time. I was in a world of darkness, but I also had a call.” [20:18 – Jackie]

• On Identity and Vulnerability:

  “In this moment, I knew I was a woman...I could not protect her and I could not protect myself. The Lord was using it to speak to my gender and my biology...” [23:15 & 24:48 – Jackie]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro/Banter: 00:09–01:13
• Theft & Canada: 01:28–09:16
• Fights & Flight: 09:32–16:18
• Demonic Encounter: 17:20–21:22
• Motel Showdown & Gender Reflection: 21:50–25:39

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Conclusion

Jackie’s stories—of theft, intimidation, spiritual darkness, and pretending to be tough—are relayed with a mix of hilarity, humility, and grace. Preston’s interjections keep the episode brisk and fun. Each story drives home a message about God’s redemptive power, the unmasking of false personas, and the freedom Jackie felt over time, moving from “thug life” bravado to honest vulnerability and belonging in Christ.

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The episode’s tone is real, raw, and often laugh-out-loud funny, but always circles back to gratitude for God’s transformative love and the improbability of Jackie’s storylines ending any other way.

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Note: This summary skips advertisements, intros/outros, and technical credits to focus on the core content.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hey, Saint Sinates. How are you?

[B]

How y' all doing out there? What up?

[A]

What up out there?

[B]

Out there? How was real St. Louis for, like, a quick minute?

[A]

You weren't. You were more Memphis. But how are you?

[B]

They sound like. They sound.

[A]

They say there, too, but they're. There is a. It's like. I can't explain it. I'm not from there.

[B]

Why you do.

[A]

It's just.

[B]

It's a bit round.

[A]

I'm not. I don't know how to do it.

[B]

I'm really excited about this podcast.

[A]

Why?

[B]

The reason why is because the last couple of times I was telling you, yo, if we ever do a podcast what Jackie does, a story time is going to be lit. And you kept saying, I don't have.

[A]

No, lit is not the word.

[B]

Yeah, it's kind of like. Like, out of style, too. I shouldn't have said lit. It is, but it's like, sound like a real cornball.

[A]

Swag. I'm swaggy. Go ahead.

[B]

No, I kept telling you, you have great stories.

[A]

You. You do.

[B]

And it's like. No, you have all the stories. You're the storyteller in the family.

[A]

I don't have that many stories, but the. The few I have, I guess, are. Are worth telling.

[B]

No, they're. They're really good. Okay, what's the first one you want to tell?

[A]

You do it. You leading this. This ship.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

See, which I don't understand the dynamic of 30 minutes with the Paris. If you've noticed, it is Jackie driving the ship with her questions. But if he wants me to tell stories, that means he needs to do it.

[B]

Okay, so I think the first story that you should tell is how.

[A]

You.

[B]

Almost didn't get invited. Not invited, but let into Canada.

[A]

Oh, what. What is this? Remember we didn't talk about this ahead of time?

[B]

No, no, no, no. It was the. It was the. No, no. Not why you didn't get invited into Canada, but the time that you and Mike.

[A]

The reason why Canada.

[B]

The reason why Canada wouldn't let you in. Into the country. They was like, no, you fugitive.

[A]

Okay, so I had a misdemeanor on my.

[B]

Oh, Jackie Hill Perry had a misdemeanor.

[A]

That's not a surprise. I think everybody knows that I am only who I am by the grace of God. Ooh, I was a whole lesbian. Come on, let's be clear. I got a poem about it. So surely a misdemeanor can't be the worst thing I've ever done. Oh. Anyway, so. Okay, so what happened Was I used to steal all the time. Okay, because you was a thief. No, I was, but I was. This was the reason. It was actually really efficient. So I felt like if I want to go out, a part of going out is you need the outfit. You also need some weed and you need some money. Right. But to me, I didn't have all three of those at the same time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so it was like, if I steal the outfit, then I got money for the weed. And so got it. But don't it make sense? Yeah, it's actually a little. It's like, it's a little shrewd. So for me, I would go to the mall and just, you know, steal outfits. So I had money for weed and all the things. Now I never.

[B]

So basically you was a drug addict. He was like, I wasn't a drug addict.

[A]

I just like weed a lot.

[B]

That was drug addict.

[A]

Ish.

[B]

Cause it's like you like pre planned, so you can.

[A]

But also when you steal, you can get outfits you low key can't afford.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

You know what I'm saying? I'm not advocating for theft. Okay, let's be clear.

[B]

I want everybody to know we not.

[A]

Glorifying that grieves the Lord's heart.

[B]

We're not glorifying sin. Just all the funny stories happened when we were in sin.

[A]

Even Kim could know.

[B]

Cam, you can't laugh. You the camera person, you can't laugh at us.

[A]

Because I'm laughing at Karen. I ain't even laughing at you at this point. Hold on, I gotta wipe my eyes.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Every time we do story time, you.

[A]

Start crying, you gonna make me ugly. I don't want to be ugly. This is on YouTube now. If this wasn't on YouTube, it wouldn't even matter. Okay? So I don't remember what happened. Oh, so I never got caught because I was a smart thief. Okay. Like all of my skills as a. As a. As a Christian communicator and as a preacher, I had then, like, I was observant. I paid attention to people and what they were thinking and all the stuff. And so I would go into places like watching stuff. You know what I'm saying? People I used to steal with, I don't just. They just weren't smart. They were impulsive.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I went to the mall with somebody who will remain unnamed. And they were. They. We. The. The first mistake was that we went to the mall early. Why that was a mistake is because ain't nobody there. And so we're more visible to the workers. First mistake, second mistake. We went inside of Macy's in the polo section. Because this is early 2000s, when polos was, like, a thing. Yeah, don't go in the section dressed in some ab cromi looking at polos, because you already look like, oh, you can't. You can't afford it. You're not supposed to be here. So we walk up at the thing, and this lady kept looking at us, But I'm like, I mean, I guess I'm not stealing nothing. So it has nothing to do with.

[B]

So she was profiling y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

But she was right.

[A]

No.

[B]

Crazy, because I thought, what are they up to?

[A]

I'm not taking that as I don't care. And so the person I was with, they saw this really. It was like this polo vest that was actually really nice. And it was like, $200. I was like, for sure. Get it. Like, you'll look really nice in the club with that on. And so you deserve it. He went into the dressing room, and he needed my help. This was the problem. And I was like, oh, okay, I'll help you break the little security tag off. So I went in with him to help him break the little security tag off or whatever. And. And then when we came out of the thing, I'm still thinking that, like, my hands are pure and unblemished because I haven't done it. I'm not stealing anything. And the police just, like, rolled up on us on some, like. I don't know, some, like, CIA type C. I don't know why they do that. They do it like it's like a mission. Like.

[B]

So as soon as y' all came out the dressing room, they were there.

[A]

She stopped us, like, what are you guys doing? Or something like that. I don't even remember. It was a blur. Cause I was high. And so they pulled up on us, and it was just like, come with us. And he grabbed my wrist, and it's like, you can loosen up the grand grip. Like, it's not that intense. I'm not about to run from you. There is no room. Like, I'm not. I'm not a fugitive. And so they took us into the little room and, like, trying to interrogate us. And it's like, y' all acting like this is, like, a thing. Like, we. Like, we stole. Like, we stole an election or something. Like, this is Watergate. And so they was trying to ask us all these questions. My friend kept trying to lie. I had this. I had a roach. Y' all know what roaches are not the bug.

[B]

Are you acting them?

[A]

Yeah. I don't know if they know what roaches are.

[B]

So a roach. You want me tell them what a roach is? A roach is a blunt that you smoke that's kind of like shriveled down. And now it's like a little, small, little thing. And you kind of like, sometimes people grab it with tweezers or if you got, like, really good skills, you can hold it with two fingers and, you.

[A]

Know, so it's just a real raggedy drug addict attempt at getting your last little puff, puff out of. Out of the wig. So I had the roach in my pocket, and I'm like, man, I gotta get this roach out my pocket because they not gonna get me for possession too.

[B]

What?

[A]

A roach. They do anything in St. Louis.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

And so I was like. I had the. I had the handcuffs on and I said, I need to tie my shoes. And so, like, I got the roach out, and when I went to tie my shoes, I put it under this plant. Then I came back up. And then they put us in a holding cell. And we were in there for, like a couple hours. It was real boring. They took our fingerprints and all this stuff.

[B]

Well, the crazy thing is that they didn't let y' all do the whole walk of shame, because I threw them all.

[A]

Yeah, we did.

[B]

Oh, they gave the walk of shade, but.

[A]

Cause there's no other options.

[B]

Please tell me about the walk of shade.

[A]

You just walk through them all with handcuffs on.

[B]

Cause they gotta make an example out of you. So. So basically.

[A]

But we're so prideful. We think it makes us cool, though. Cause it's like, look at us arrested. Like, it made us feel like we was thug life. Yeah, that's what it felt like. But the problem was when they let us out of the little holding cell, we had to walk back to the mall, which was like two miles away. And this is before Uber and all the things. So, yeah, that was it. And then I had a misdemeanor on my account for 10 years. And so when I got saved and delivered and set free and it was time for us to go to Canada, we for the PIA tour, they would not let me in because unbeknownst to me, they did not accept people with misdemeanors into their country unless you did some paperwork beforehand. So I had to, like, show them my page and be like, I promise I'm a new person. I'm changed. Like, we were doing my Instagram. I'm literally here for Jesus. Like, I'm not here.

[B]

Cause we was on a tour bus, and we was going into Canada, and so, like, when we get into Canada, they come on a tour bus and tell everybody to get off. And so they was like, everybody's good to cross the border, except.

[A]

You are being so dramatic. They did not do that.

[B]

She's a thief.

[A]

They did not do that. But, no, she was, like, really adamant about not letting me in. Like, you should have prepared. I was like, how was I supposed to know that y' all was gonna bring up something I did when I was 18?

[B]

Yeah. And so the grace of God, the people who got Jackie that weekend in Canada, you almost didn't. Because Ezekiel and me, we started talking them into letting her come, and she ended up coming. What's another story that we can tell that's good. That's good from you?

[A]

They're all negative.

[B]

They are all. But they're funny, though. So here's the thing. Okay, so here's the thing. I tell people this all the time. Jackie Face falls. Like she can fight, but the thing is, she really can't. She's not a fighter.

[A]

I can't.

[B]

And so I think a good story.

[A]

For you to tell that'd be so intimidating for no reason.

[B]

I think the story that. A good story that you could tell is when your friends was about to get into a group fight with these girls.

[A]

You saying too much.

[B]

Okay, go, go, go, go, go.

[A]

Okay, so, again, can't fight. Never have I always wanted to in the back of my mind, because it's just one thing. You don't want to be in school at a black school is one can't fight or soft. Those two things are just such bad categories to live in. And so for me, the problem was, I'm over here. Can't fight. But everybody. I'm friends with fights, and so on one end, I feel safe. I'm really protected because I'm not. I'm like. I don't hang with scary people yet. At the same time, if something pops off, I gotta be, like, ready to go, and I don't know how to go. And so that's just gonna be a really.

[B]

How do I do this?

[A]

Like, I don't. I'm gonna just throw some punches, and if they land, hopefully. It's just.

[B]

I feel like if you ever got into a fight, you'll be. Actually be good at it if you just black out. But anyways, go.

[A]

That's the part is me thinking too much.

[B]

Yeah, you're too much of a thinker. You Can't. You gotta be a reactor when you fight.

[A]

That's true. But anyway, so let me say it without saying names. Cause all these people I'm talking about, I'm still cool with. So I'm over my one friend House. She is a fighter. And she's not an unnecessary fighter. She's one of those people, like, if she. If you. If you talk crazy to her, she's not going to talk back. She's just going to beat you up, like. And she was just raised that way. Like, she was cultivated in an environment of. It's like. It's a lot like you. So I'm over her House. She has beef with this girl at this other high school. The girl, or I don't remember all the details, but the girl calls my friend and starts talking crazy to her. So my friend is like, okay, come over the house. And we could, like, we could throw hands. Like, we could just stop talking.

[B]

Mimi, over here. Meet me over here.

[A]

That's very la. But sure. And so she's like, come on over. I'm. I'm really, like, saying it really too calm, but come over and we can fight. And so what ends up happening, though, is that the friend that she got issues with, her. People start calling my friend too, saying, oh, you got issue with my cousin. We f to come over there and d. So it's like, oh, now there's more than one person involved.

[B]

Gang fight. So it's getting good.

[A]

It becomes like a thing. So my friend, her mom is a fighter too.

[B]

The mama got involved.

[A]

The ma. You act like you don't know the mama Juicy, she catches wind of this, and she pressing.

[B]

That's how the wind did. Okay, go.

[A]

You need your ADHD medicine. And so she comes into the doorway, and the mama, she heard about how all these cousins and all these people finna come over her house. And so she was like, what did she say? She said something like, hey. She was like, when people come on this door, I'm dropping them. And she was like, and if you ain't ready to fight, you can get the F out. And I'm like, I'm not ready. Like, I don't have it in me, but I can't let you know that. And so she over here, got a sock, and she putting an eight ball and rocks in the sock. So saying she f. To swing on whoever come to this doorstep. No, no, no, no, no. It. It was just so intense. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[B]

Pause. You just can't say that and keep going. So she got A sock.

[A]

She has a sock. Okay. A long sock with rocks in it.

[B]

So she has.

[A]

And she's basically saying that when people come to this door, she f. Swing them.

[B]

This lady got a tube sock.

[A]

She wasn't even, like, a lady. She was still young. She was one of them young mamas. Wow. But it's like, this is way too intense for me. Like, I was. I was. I was raised in the black suburbs. I don't know what to do. I. I got a little H mama's from the hood. But I just wasn't raised this way. I was growing up reading books and all of that by myself. I was, like, technically only child, watching Nickelodeon and reading encyclopedias. And I know I hang with people. That's about this life. I'm not about this life. But I can't let y' all know that.

[B]

Wait.

[A]

So I don't know what to do.

[B]

The crazy thing is this. She was grown.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And these were teenagers coming over.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So she's gonna kill some kids.

[A]

But you gotta think about it. She wasn't gonna kill him. No, no.

[B]

If you hit somebody in the head.

[A]

With an eight ball, they're gonna die. But you know how it is, though. In her mind, she was like, I wouldn't have been involved if you were just gonna fight my daughter one on one.

[B]

But y' all trying to jump my daughter.

[A]

Yeah. It's like you and your whole family trying to jump her. So now we got to be involved.

[B]

Okay, I can see that.

[A]

They start calling her cousin, so it's gonna. You know what I'm saying? It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you try to fight her one on one, we good.

[B]

It was one on one was good.

[A]

But now it's 15, 20 now.

[B]

Spitting kill you getting these rocks.

[A]

Anyway, so I gotta figure out a way to leave without looking soft.

[B]

So how did you leave?

[A]

And so I text my Godbrother, and I said, call me and act like you my mama. Come back. You gotta come back to the bike that's on.

[B]

Real punk move.

[A]

But it's smart. You was smart. No, I was really. I was like, in my mind, like, how can I leave without them, like, talking about me? So what you do?

[B]

Hey, mama.

[A]

No, he called me. He was like, what's up? And I was like, oh, you want me to come home now? He was like. He was like, I don't know what you talking about. I said, you want me to come home right now? Like, something is happening, like, with over what's in a house. And he like, what are you talking about? And I was like, okay, I'll be on my way. And so I got off the phone and I was like, my mama want me to come home, so I gotta go. But let me know what happened. I'll be back.

[B]

Oh, man. I know in the back of their mind, they was like, they ain't gonna. Mama then call. They so scary.

[A]

She's so scary. Yet at the same time, my mama was one of the few that was always restricting me. And so it wasn't surprising. Like, I could never go all the places they could go. I could never be out at all the times they could be out. So some of it makes sense.

[B]

Yeah, that's so funny. That was one of the funniest stories ever.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

She had a tube sock with an.

[A]

Egg ball, but you have no idea.

[B]

She was gonna be hitting people quarter pockets.

[A]

You know how I know how I did, like when I became a Christian, how much of a relief it was to not have to always be on guard? Cause, like, in high school, I felt like I was always like, you always have to be ready to fight or ready to.

[B]

So you had that. You had that. You had that same fear that I had, like, early on in my life. Just, I had like this deep fear of getting beat up.

[A]

But you were like eight.

[B]

I know. I'm saying I lost that real quick growing up out real quick. You gotta learn. You gotta lose that real quick. Growing up. Where I grew up, I had it.

[A]

At like 16, 17.

[B]

Right, right. Your whole life.

[A]

16, 13, 12, 11, 10. But to like, be around Christians and it'd be like, it's like, oh, we not finna be like fighting. We just gotta.

[B]

Yeah, it was real weird for us.

[A]

We just gotta evangelize now and fight.

[B]

Devils, fight the enemy. Yeah, it was real weird for me at first. I was like, yeah, I don't wanna fight. Sometimes, like, sometimes people disrespect me. It's like, nah. Like, it's another way to turn the other cheek. Yeah, turn the other cheek and be godly.

[A]

That's kind of thing.

[B]

I think another good story to tell is about the time your mom saw something in your room.

[A]

Okay, so.

[B]

Gets darker.

[A]

I'm in my room. I'm probably 14 or 15. I don't know, maybe 12, 13. It's all a blur. I'm 33 now, and I heard my mother make a screech or a yelp. I don't know, it was like. It's not a. You know, it's not a scream, but it's not Like a hum. It's. It's something. And so I come out the room, and she's sitting on her toilet with her hands in her hurt or head in her hands, like, kind of like this type thing, and looking all. What's the word? Burdened. And I'm like, what's going on? And she was like, do you really want me to tell you? Real slavish. And I'm like. Like, why would you say it that way? Of course I want you to tell me now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I was like. She was like, basically that she saw a dean. What looked like. She didn't say. I don't know if she even said the word demon, but she saw a figure that was five feet tall. He said it was all black. His skin was, like, leathery or, like, reptilian. Real skinny. And she said his hands were my. My door was like. My door was kind of cracked. And she was like. She saw his fingers come through the door, him peek at her, and then go back inside my room. And that's why she screeched or whatever. And so from that point on, it was just really hard for me to go to sleep at night.

[B]

I'm pretty sure if you was 13.

[A]

Years old, because it's like, oh, I got demons in here. Like, straight spirits.

[B]

He tried.

[A]

I want to know why he peek out.

[B]

Like, oh, going back home now.

[A]

I think home.

[B]

I mean, he lived in your room.

[A]

I guess there's to sh. It's so many questions I have surrounding that story. It's like, one, how did he get there? Two, why did she see him? Three, why did he manifest in the way that he did? You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just. It's just so many things, because it wasn't like he was lurking around the entire house. It was literally just my room.

[B]

So, as a teenager, how did you feel after she told you that?

[A]

I didn't know how to feel. It just felt like, oh, I'm just gonna sleep with the lights on and TV on. And. Because even now, you know, like, I can't sleep in rooms without some type of light or sound. And I honestly, when I'm gone. Yeah. I think. I think situations like that is a part of that reason. It's just this constant. I need to be aware of what's around me. And so it's like, if somebody's not in the room with me, I'm not comfortable.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And it might be that that's deep epiphany. So I'm assuming therapy session I'm assuming the. The demon was in the room. Just because demons are they. They have domain and they have liberty where darkness and sin exists. And so I wasn't a Christian. I was not living in the domain of light. I was not loving Jesus, and I was opening myself up to all types of demonic stuff. Pornography is demonic?

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

You know, I watch it all the time. I love demonic music and I listen to it all the time. Like I was. I was in a world of darkness, but I also had a call and I think they might have been aware of that. And so them being in my world was probably just them trying to continue to oppress me and make me a slave to all the things. But at the same time, here I am a Christian, so it's like preaching the gospel. It's only so much power they have. Oof.

[B]

That's a word. That's a very encouraging. It started off dark, ended up light. That was great.

[A]

She's seen a few demons in her day. And my. My mom ain't even in church. That's the thing people don't realize she's not like in church. So for her to see it is actually even more interesting because it's not like she is out here in spiritual warfare classes.

[B]

Wow. The spiritual world is such a. Is such a mystery because we just don't really understand how much is around us every day of our lives. You know what I'm saying? And so stories like that is. It's. It's kind of creepy, but it's also like equally encouraging to know that God had a plan for your life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Back then. And you know. Wow. So what's the last story? I feel like it gotta be a good one, you know, because. Yeah, I think the last story should be. Should. Should. Should involve like the lifestyle that God is taking you from. Because I know people have heard you talk about the lifestyle that God has taken you from as far as being and homosexual lifestyle and all of that. But I don't think you. They. They know like detailed stories. So give us one good detail.

[A]

Stories. My book kind of says everything. So this story is in the book. So anybody that's read Gay Girl Good God will be familiar with it. But me articulating it, I think can add color to it. So what happened was I was with my girlfriend at the time and we used to stay at this motel to, you know, do things and like smoke and all that. And so we were in the lobby. I don't remember. I don't know why we were in the lobby. But we were in the lobby and there was this guy who was really big, like six foot something, 200 something pounds. I don't know, he just looked like he. He's. He ate a lot and like had a thick neck, you know, like thick forearm type guy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like he ate meatloaf for breakfast. And so he was like mad at the hostess for some reason and like angry. Like peak angry to the point of. I didn't know if he was a little borderline off. Like unhinged, not happy. Yeah. And I was just like, he's either about to fight or he's about to shoot. I don't know what he's about to do, but all I could think to myself was, I can't protect either of us.

[B]

So was he going off on the hostess, the people?

[A]

It was. It's an awkward situation. He's going off on people, but he's going through the lobby, like going behind into their offices. So he's reckless.

[B]

Yeah, he was kind of, like crazy a little bit.

[A]

Yeah. Like he going behind the counter and looking for people.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And so in my mind I'm like, I can't fight this dude for me. And I definitely can't fight him for you. But I think the Lord in that circumstance, low key, high key, was actually like breaking into two realities, which is I am in this world where I'm. Where I'm living this illusion of being male or masculine. I'm presenting as a man. I. I'm affectionate towards my girlfriend as a man. I'm treated with the respect in the gay community as someone who has this kind of masculine self. And we've talked about all the things about being a tomboy and blah, blah, blah, but, like, it's like in this moment, I knew I was a woman. And it's not like I didn't know I was a woman, but I knew I was vulnerable and I was weak and. And I wanted and needed somebody to protect me. And I could not protect her and I could not protect myself. And it was just weird where the. It was like the Lord was using it to be like, this is not who you are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, this is not how I made you. This is not how I created you. So at the same time, I'm over here trying to act hard and trying to act like, you know, I got this all together, but I don't.

[B]

Yeah, we need to go.

[A]

We need to leave. We need to call the cab.

[B]

And I think that's. I think that's good. And I think that's deep. Because I think some people might hear this and say, well, there's some men who might be in a situation and not. And not, you know, they're not able to, like, you know, help in the way that their woman, yada, yada. But I think particularly for you in this situation, you were trying to be somebody that God didn't create you to be. I think that's the.

[A]

The Lord was using it specifically for you to speak to my gender and my biology and how God had made me to exist and be and how I was functioning completely opposite of that, which was not reality.

[B]

Yeah, that's good. That's good. And so what you say? I can't protect you. Did you communicate that to your girlfriend or you just.

[A]

I did not. You got it again, the same way. I found a way out of no way when it came to that fight, I found a way to be like, we just finna go get breakfast.

[B]

Come on, let's just go. This stuff dead over here anyways. He tripping.

[A]

Basically. You gotta find an alternative to keep up the facade.

[B]

You grabbed her arm real hard. Come on. We put it leave.

[A]

Yeah, it was all a shame.

[B]

That's good, though. That's a good story. Well, that was a good story time with Jackie Hill Perry. That was really great and entertaining.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

Lot of tears. Good tears. Good job, babe.

[A]

We're done there. Adios.

[B]

Peace.

[A]

30 minutes with the Perrys is a production of Ivy Media podcast edited by Angie Elkins, video recording and audio production by Kim Powell, Artwork by Hop and music by Swoop. Join us on Patreon for early access to. With the Perrys episodes and other exclusives. You got two options. You can go to www.patreon.com with the Perrys or just go ahead, scroll. You'll find the link in our show notes. We are the Perrys. Thank y' all for listening. Now go with God.