With The Perrys – "The Art of Stewarding Your 5 Loaves and 2 Fish: A Convo with Dallas and Amanda Jenkins"

Podcast: With The Perrys
Hosts: Preston Perry & Jackie Hill Perry
Guests: Dallas Jenkins & Amanda Jenkins
Episode Date: October 13, 2025
Main Theme: Faithfully stewarding creative gifts, spiritual perseverance in suffering, the story behind "The Chosen," and the interplay of theology and storytelling.

Episode Overview

This lively, insightful episode brings Dallas and Amanda Jenkins (creators of The Chosen) to the table with Preston and Jackie Hill Perry. The conversation explores how God moves through our ordinary offerings ("five loaves and two fish"), the creative process and theological boundaries behind The Chosen, spiritual warfare that accompanies success, and the practical tension of creative integrity, criticism, and faithfulness. Dallas and Amanda share vulnerably about personal valleys, what keeps them grounded, and how they hope to inspire both Christians and seekers through art rooted in biblical truth and cultural context. The episode weaves humor, honesty, and moments of profound encouragement for anyone creating, parenting, or simply persevering in the faith.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parenting Across Seasons & Relatable Family Moments

• Lighthearted banter about modern parenting and "fun parent" status leads into a reflection by the Jenkins on having adult children, shifting from disciplinarian to consultant roles, and navigating the pain and pride of watching kids struggle and thrive.
  • Notable Quote:

    "You're gonna be tired for about 20 straight years." — Dallas Jenkins [03:55]

2. Origin Story: "The Chosen" out of Brokenness

• Dallas shares how the bomb of a previous project brought him to a spiritual crossroads, leading him to surrender his dreams and focus solely on offering his small gifts to God.
  • Key Story: Amanda feels God prompting her to read the story of the Feeding of the 5,000, and Dallas later receives an unsolicited Facebook message echoing the exact lesson:

    "Remember, your job is not to feed the 5,000. Your job is only to provide the loaves and fish." — Message from Alex in Romania [11:26]

• This becomes the thesis for their work: focus faithfully on what you can offer, leaving the results to God.

3. The Theology of Divine Multiplication

• Detailed reflection on the Feeding of the 5,000 as a model for creative and spiritual work:
  • Jesus brings people to desperation to highlight dependence on Him.
  • Our role: bring our best (loaves and fish), let God decide on the multiplication.
  • Success in The Chosen came only after surrender of the need for affirmation and control.

    "There is no amount of success The Chosen could have that would make me believe that I’m responsible for it." — Dallas Jenkins [19:14]

4. Success, Affirmation, and (Real) Humility

• The tension: How to accept success without letting pride creep in.
  • Key is remembering the division of labor—offering vs. results.
  • Amanda notes Dallas’s profound change after brokenness: “It just didn’t come back…he really got it.”
  • Ongoing personal family trials keep them “so low” that they’re always dependent on God, not at risk of getting “too high.”

5. Suffering, Spiritual Warfare & Providence

• The Jenkinses recount that success has invited relentless “crushing”—chronic illness, family hardships, and challenges each season.
  • Discussion on how fruitfulness brings pruning, not comfort.
  • The importance of seeing God’s hand sovereignly in the trials.

    "If you knew the full plan, you’d agree with it." — Amanda Jenkins [28:21]

• Suffering is reframed as evidence of fruitfulness (John 15).

6. The Creative & Theological Process Behind The Chosen

• Dallas discusses artistic license: starting with scripture, building out plausible, human, culturally real characters.
• Commitment to “authenticity”: stories and character moments are vetted with a board of scholars from diverse backgrounds (evangelical, Messianic Jewish, Catholic).

  "Even when something’s not a capital F fact, it’s going to be capital T true." — Dallas Jenkins [36:13]

• The decision to depict Matthew as on the autism spectrum rooted both in close reading of scripture and personal familiarity (their daughter is autistic).

7. Humanizing Jesus & the Disciples

• Discussion on the casting and writing of Jesus (Jonathan Roumie): blending gentleness and strength, laughter and authority, making Jesus approachable and three-dimensional.

  "He’s not weak... He brings it, but it matters when he does because you’ve seen him also be compassionate.” — Dallas Jenkins [49:51]

• Rejection of sanitized, “stained glass window” portrayals for a more Jewish, approachable, real Christ.

8. Navigating Criticism & Artistic Risk

• The hosts and Jenkinses discuss how any creative, especially in Christian space, faces critique. Amanda notes the “entitlement” of some fans; both agree the only way to remain faithful is to honor God first, not public opinion:

  "I don’t think about the audience when I’m writing or directing. I really have to focus on making five good loaves and two good fish." — Dallas Jenkins [55:16]

9. Ministry Through Story: Touching Real Hurt

• The Jenkinses intentionally include themes of unanswered prayer, disability, and pain to reflect the breadth of biblical experience—not just “magical healing.”
• Many storylines (e.g., little James not being healed, Peter wrestling with miscarriage) are drawn directly from their own struggles and those of the cast.
• Amanda: “We’re not free from the lessons of each season.”

10. Jewish Tradition, Cultural Detail & The Dayenu

• The show intentionally elevates the Jewishness of Jesus and the disciples—something that has resonated powerfully in Israel and across cultures.
• Explanation of the “Dayenu” (would have been enough) Passover tradition (see: [65:36–71:14]) and its incorporation into The Chosen: the practice of reflecting “if God had stopped at X, it would have been enough—yet He gives more.”

  "If you would have only been the child I found in the temple when you were 12, that would have been enough." — Amanda (paraphrasing Mary) [70:28]

11. Season 5 Bible Study: "The Stronghold of the Chosen"

• Amanda explains that "stronghold" refers to both a literal place of refuge in ancient Israel and a spiritual reality; explores the irony and depth of Jesus offering strength through weakness and peace through the cross.
• The study focuses on Zechariah 9, Palm Sunday, and finding hope in the character of God when circumstances feel hopeless.

  "If you knew the whole plan, you would agree with it." — Amanda Jenkins [28:21, repeated in this context] "He is also the conquering king and he is also the judge – same guy. Right?" — Amanda Jenkins [78:04]

12. Looking Ahead

• The Chosen Season 6 ("the crucifixion season") is completed and coming in the fall of 2026 as a streaming release, with the finale as a worldwide feature film—multilingual rollout planned.

  "It took 86 days to film... The finale, the big crucifixion finale, is going to be a feature-length film released all over the world." — Dallas Jenkins [82:51]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Dallas, on surrender and multiplication:
  "Your job is not to feed the 5,000. Your job is only to provide the loaves and fish." [11:26]
• Dallas, on humility in creative success:
  "There is no amount of success The Chosen could have that would make me believe I'm responsible for it." [19:14]
• Amanda, on suffering and ministry:
  "We are kept so low that we are not making this show from a high place." [22:16]
• Preston, reflecting on pruning:
  "A lot of times, the trial is evidence that you're fruitful. And the Lord's intention is not to crush you, but to help you be more fruitful." [24:45]
• Amanda, on learning spiritual lessons:
  "If you knew the full plan, you would agree with it." [28:21]
• Dallas, on authenticity in storytelling:
  "Even when something's not a capital F fact, it's going to be capital T true." [36:13]
• Amanda, on artistic criticism:
  "If I truly am doing this with the Lord, for the Lord... Even the affirmation loses its name." [62:36]
• Dallas, on focus:
  "That’s why it’s the name of our company – Five and Two Studios – it’s a constant reminder of what we’re responsible for." [64:46]

Important Timestamps

• [05:13] Dallas recounts career failure and the spiritual lesson of the loaves and fish
• [08:38] Analysis of Feeding the 5,000—Jesus causes hunger to point to dependence
• [11:26] The prophetic Facebook message and its life-changing impact
• [16:27] The "participation" principle: God wants our involvement
• [19:14] How to sustain humility amidst massive success
• [21:15] Amanda on suffering, spiritual warfare, and keeping low
• [28:21] "If you knew the full plan, you'd agree with it."
• [31:44] Dallas on inspiration, biblical plausibility, and the show’s creative process
• [36:13] The "authenticity" rule in storytelling
• [41:46] Why Matthew is portrayed as autistic and the value of representation
• [49:45] Casting and depicting a more human, nuanced Jesus
• [55:16] On writing/creating for God rather than the audience
• [65:36] Dayenu tradition explained and Jewish cultural integration
• [72:35] Bible study focus: the stronghold, Zechariah 9, and hope in weakness
• [82:51] Announcement of season 6 streaming and feature film finale

Summary Takeaways

• The Chosen is as much about the creators' own sanctification as it is about audience impact—each season births new lessons through real-life suffering, faith, and creative risk.
• Bringing your "five loaves and two fish"—offering what you have, even when small or broken—is a theme woven through their journey and the show itself.
• The Jenkinses' approach to art is rigorous in biblical fidelity, deeply human, radically empathetic, and open to criticism but unswayed by it.
• The show brings Jewish cultural context and real, diverse humanity into longstanding Christian stories, making them accessible and relatable to new generations—and to those who may have never truly heard them.
• Suffering, frustration, and trials—even those that feel relentless—are, in their experience, often God's chosen means to increase fruitfulness and dependence.
• Authentic storytelling, not sanitized religiosity, is at the heart of their ministry—bearing witness, not replacing, scripture.
• They encourage listeners, whatever their vocation, to focus on faithful stewardship and trust God with the outcome.

For Listeners

If you haven’t watched The Chosen yet, the Perrys urge you to do so—Popcorn, Bibles open, friends gathered. Season 6 (the crucifixion season) is coming soon, with an accompanying Bible study for deeper reflection. However, the ultimate aim isn’t entertainment—it’s to drive us all deeper into the Gospels, dependence on Christ, and hopeful endurance through whatever we’re carrying.