Body of Evidence | 2

Summary

Witness: Sex, Lies and Streaming

Episode 2: "Body of Evidence"

Date: August 11, 2026
Host: news.com.au
Investigators/Narrators: Jo Townsend & Callum Dines

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Episode Overview

This episode delves deeply into the mysterious disappearance of Les Ball in 1993, unraveling family testimony, police investigation missteps, and the tangled web of evidence (and lack thereof) surrounding the case. Through interviews, coroner’s reports, and on-the-ground exploration, the hosts try to piece together the last days of Les Ball, exposing inconsistent witness statements, potential cover-ups, and persistent rumors about his fate. The episode ramps up the intrigue—exploring false alibis, burned evidence, and a prime suspect who was a former detective, all while highlighting the emotional toll on Les's family.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Last Sighting – Contradictions and Committed Belief

• Leanne Phillips’ Account

  • Leanne, Les’s daughter, insists Les visited her in a Brisbane hospital the night of April 21, 1993; her testimony remains unchanged across decades and multiple interviews.
  • Police systematically dismantle her timeline: forged train tickets, uncorroborated sightings, no evidence Les was ever in the hospital.

  "Has someone told you to say he came to visit in the hospital?" — Detective [02:35]
  "Nobody has. I know I saw my father in hospital." — Leanne Phillips [02:38]

• Corroboration and Opposition

  • Coroner finds Leanne is a credible and sincere witness, but mistaken. Leanne’s conviction contrasts sharply with mounting contradictory points: train tickets never used, no witnesses to Les’s visit, physically improbable details at the hospital (e.g., no chairs where she recalled sitting).
  • Even a "losing lotto ticket" allegedly handed to Leanne by Les fails as proof; it, too, is likely planted as part of a coverup.

• Quote:

  "So, in other words, the coroner's saying: I believe you. You're not lying, but it didn't happen." — Narrator [09:00]

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2. Reconstructing the Timeline: Who Saw What, When?

• Household Dynamics and the Missing Man

  • Les was living in the Phillips’ home, whose members included David (son-in-law & ex-cop), Margaret (ex-wife), and four children.
  • On the day Les disappeared (Sunday, April 18), David claims he and family were out; returns to find Les, his car, trailer, and personal effects gone.
  • A note from Les is found (never handed to police), and a family friend, Tony Hoyer, recounts seeing Les loading his car and preparing to leave—details that fit but also raise fresh timeline confusions.

• Police Focus

  • Suspicion lingers due to Les’s apparent sudden departure—including a cleared-out fridge and all possessions packed, an odd move while buying a house in town.
  • Notably, the family never reports Les as missing, even as anxious calls pour in from Les's real estate agent and lawyer.

• Quote:

  "There just seemed to be an overall, oh, look, he's gone away, we don't know where he is and that's it." — Detective Noel Powers [16:27]

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3. Physical Evidence – The Burned-Out Trailer

• Discovery

  • Two months after Les disappears, a distinctive blue hand-built trailer is found burned and dismantled in a known Townsville dumping ground.
  • Evidence recovered: melted tools, cutlery, glass fragments, and charred personal items—some identified by Les’s ex-wife, Ed Ison, as definitively belonging to him.
  • No sign of human remains.

• Concealment

  • The crime scene reveals elaborate attempts to erase evidence: trailer’s remains scattered in multiple piles, repeated fires, witnesses intimidated (silent observers near the scene).

  "Someone had made at least two attempts to completely destroy the trailer." — Narrator [19:46]
  "Someone had gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal the evidence, to create a version that would distract us, that would put us on the wrong path." — Detective Noel Powers [23:34]

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4. The Prime Suspect: David Phillips, Ex-Detective

• Unusual Behavior

  • David, a former detective, is cool under pressure even as police search his home and plant listening devices.
  • His evasive answers and lack of initiative in reporting Les as missing are highly suspicious to police.

  "If he didn't ask the question, he wouldn't provide any information at all. And it was, you know, use the expression, like pulling blood out of a stone." — Detective Noel Powers [25:14]

• Police Surveillance

  • Home searched, house bugged. David seemingly anticipates investigative tactics, keeping the TV on constantly, aware conversations may be recorded.

• Rumors and Theories

  • Around the same time, rumors swarm that David may have buried Les's body at a construction site beneath a concrete slab—an impenetrable location.

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5. The Failed Investigation and The Inquest

• Key Misses

  • Police mishandle witness details (losing a critical number plate), fail to properly interview a cleaner who saw a suspicious trailer, and find no physical evidence linking David to Les’s disappearance.
  • Only a mysterious fingerprint on Les’s car is found—not a match for David Phillips.

• Coroner’s Open Verdict

  • At the inquest, conflicting accounts and lack of physical evidence lead the coroner to deliver an open finding—not officially ruling Les’s death a homicide—heavily influenced by David’s testimony that Les would habitually “disappear.”

  "Had it not been for his evidence of Les's tendency to go missing for periods of time, he, he would quote, have no hesitation in finding the cause of the missing person's disappearance was foul play." — Coroner’s conclusion relayed by the hosts [35:27]

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6. Exposing the Lies

• Alibi Under Scrutiny
  • Investigators, digging into phone and bank records, discover David’s claims about Les’s past disappearances to be exaggerated if not outright fictional—Les's earlier "disappearance" lasted six days, not three weeks, and was for the verifiable purpose of buying a house.
  • Suggests David consciously constructs an alibi and downplays the urgency of Les’s disappearance.

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Notable & Memorable Quotes

• "Nobody has. I know I saw my father in hospital." — Leanne Phillips [02:38]
• "It just didn't seem to add up." — Detective Noel Powers [04:53]
• "So, in other words, the coroner's saying: I believe you. You're not lying, but it didn't happen." — Narrator [09:00]
• "If he didn't ask the question, he wouldn't provide any information at all. And it was, you know, use the expression, like pulling blood out of a stone." — Detective Noel Powers [25:14]
• "Someone had gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal the evidence, to create a version that would distract us, that would put us on the wrong path." — Detective Noel Powers [23:34]
• "Had it not been for his evidence of Les's tendency to go missing for periods of time, he... would have no hesitation in finding the cause of the missing person's disappearance was foul play." — Coroner, recounted by Jo Townsend [35:27]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:16 — Leanne Phillips recalls the last time she saw her father.
• 02:35 — Detective questions Leanne about her hospital story.
• 07:38 — The disputed lotto ticket as "physical proof".
• 09:00 — Coroner’s key finding about Leanne’s credibility.
• 10:45 – 15:15 — David Phillips and family outline their account; contradictions emerge.
• 17:23 — Discovery and investigation of the burned trailer.
• 20:40 – 22:04 — Ed Ison’s emotional identification of Les's belongings.
• 24:33 — Police zero in on David and Leanne.
• 26:14 — Details of the covert police surveillance operation on the Phillips’ home.
• 29:42 – 31:16 — Hosts explore and theorize about the construction site burial rumor.
• 32:04 — Detective Powers admits lack of evidence for an arrest.
• 34:13 – 36:38 — The inquest, its findings, and the lingering ambiguity.
• 37:05 – 38:03 — The unraveling of David’s fabricated alibi.

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Tone & Style

• Thoroughly investigative, empathetic to family members, driven by a sense of justice.
• Forthright in confronting inconsistencies, often incredulous at official errors and family contradictions.
• At once methodical (in reporting findings, following timelines) and conversational, with clear moments of frustration and emotional impact.

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Conclusion

This episode exposes a case marred by manipulated narratives, lack of hard evidence, and a suspect shielded by plausible lies and police procedure. The investigators’ dogged pursuit of the truth continually hits walls of crafted myths and missing links—most centrally, the body of Les Ball. The chapter closes with the promise to dig further into David Philips’ fabrications and unexplained financial motives, keeping the search for justice alive.

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Next Episode Teaser:
A deeper dive into David’s lies and a new theory about potential financial motives for Les’s disappearance and suspected murder.
(“He was a liar, compulsive liar… I believe the motive was financial because looking at it, there doesn't seem or appear to be any other reason.” — Detective Noel Powers)

If you have information on Les Ball’s disappearance, contact [e-mail].

Transcript

[Detective]

Okay. This interview has been conducted in the Epping Police Station, Victoria at two minutes to four. Do you agree with the time you're on my watch?

[Leanne Phillips]

Yes.

[Detective]

Okay. PM on Sunday, the 18th day of December 2011. Could you tell me what you can remember from 1993 in relation to your father's disappearance?

[Leanne Phillips]

Just said he came down to see me in hospital and that was the

[Interviewer]

last time I saw him.

[Narrator / Investigator]

In a Melbourne police station, two detectives sit across from Leanne Phillips, one of Les Ball's daughters.

[Detective]

Okay, and when was that?

[Leanne Phillips]

I remember. I think it was the Wednesday night. Wednesday? It's all pretty vague.

[Detective]

We do understand it was 18 years ago, but. And we're just asking for the truth than what you can remember and we don't want you to make anything up.

[Narrator / Investigator]

So just in case you missed it in that police recorded audio that was later handed to the coroner. The Wednesday night Leanne is being questioned about is 21 April 1993. The night Leanne claims her father Les visited her in a Brisbane hospital. Leanne told police that around 8:30pm she was on a public phone in the lobby of the seventh floor of the Princess Alexandra Hospital. She was trying to call home on the public payphone when Les suddenly emerged from the lifts. He'd apparently come straight from the train station after making the more than 24 hour journey from Townsville. They sat down on some chairs in the waiting area and had a brief chat, mainly about how his ex wife Margaret, who was staying at the Phillips house, was driving him crazy. He only stayed for around 30 minutes and told Leanne he was going to visit Lachelle, his youngest daughter and Leanne's half sister, on the Sunshine Coast.

[Interviewer]

How was he intending to get there?

[Narrator / Investigator]

Only the police already know the signature on Les's train ticket was forged.

[Detective]

Why would the ticket be forged though, if he was?

[Leanne Phillips]

I can't answer that. I don't.

[Detective]

Someone wanted to make it look like he traveled to Brisbane.

[Leanne Phillips]

I don't know why anybody would want to. Do

[Narrator / Investigator]

they know that Les never boarded the train?

[Detective]

Has someone told you to say he came to visit in the hospital?

[Leanne Phillips]

Nobody has. I know I saw my father in hospital

[Detective]

because we believe he didn't attend the hospital.

[Leanne Phillips]

Oh, I'm sorry. He did.

[Narrator / Investigator]

This isn't the first time Leanne has been questioned about the night she says her dad visited her in hospital. And it won't be the last. In fact, this visit has been heavily scrutinised over the years by police and two separate coroners, decades apart. Because all other evidence suggests that visit never happened and that Leanne was mistaken. I'm Jo Townsend.

[Callum Dines]

And I'm Callum Dines. We're trying to figure out who killed Les Ball. This is perfect alibi. Oh, the only constant. Things change and I don't wanna blame you Orange for.

[Narrator / Investigator]

The most important task for police in a homicide inquiry is establishing when the victim was last seen alive. For that reason, Detective Noel Powers focused on the supposed hospital visit.

[Detective Noel Powers]

Les had apparently come down to visit her and she hadn't seen or heard of him since then.

[Narrator / Investigator]

Even putting aside the forgery and Les not boarding the train, well, he did

[Leanne Phillips]

make the one down to Brisbane. I don't know how he got. If he didn't go on the train, then someone else must have brought him down.

[Narrator / Investigator]

There were issues with Leanne's story. Leanne said Les had come straight from the train, but the train he was booked on arrived in Brisbane at 3.50pm, nearly five hours before he was supposed to have visited her. Leanne also told police that she and Les sat on chairs in a public waiting area outside the lifts on level seven. Police checked there were no chairs in that area.

[Detective Noel Powers]

It just didn't seem to add up. We spoke to a lady who was occupying the room with Leanne and she said Leanne did not receive any. Any visitors in hospital on that day.

[Narrator / Investigator]

Then there was the big one. Why would Les be in Brisbane visiting Leanne at all when he should have been in Cardwell finalising the purchase of his home?

[Detective]

He put a seven thousand dollar cash deposit. Now, he risked losing that money.

[Leanne Phillips]

I can't answer you, I can't answer your question.

[Detective Noel Powers]

In some instances, in the majority of instances, people will go, all right, well, they'll modify their story or change it or just simply go, all right, well, it didn't happen. And this is really what happened. So when you're presented with a certain number of facts that disprove what you're saying, then either you'll get a new version or the person will admit to either being wrong or manufacturing that version. But this instance, no, he visited me in hospital. That was it, full stop.

[Narrator / Investigator]

We don't have the tapes of Noel's interview with Leanne from 1993, but when you hear detectives interviewing Leanne in 2011, you can see what he means. She's sticking to her version of events.

[Detective]

So this is a copy of the train detail report. And this is why we know your father did not catch a train.

[Leanne Phillips]

Oh, yeah, they said that didn't sit in the seat that he was allocated.

[Detective]

He failed to show yeah. So do you want me to show you? Explain last?

[Leanne Phillips]

I'm a member of scene. Have you? Yeah.

[Detective]

Okay.

[Leanne Phillips]

So for the purpose, you could have said anywhere. I mean.

[Detective]

Well, we don't think so. In the fact that Townsville to Brisbane travel for ball far to show fts. It's marked as well. I'm going to show you. These are the handwriting from your father. That's a handwriting from your father. And that's the forgery. That's what's on the ticket.

[Leanne Phillips]

I can't. I don't know why. I can't answer that.

[Detective]

Can I explain why it's a forgery?

[Narrator / Investigator]

Even when confronted with the fact that Les's ticket was forged and he never boarded the train to Brisbane, Leanne's story never wavered. She even offered what she said was physical proof that Les had visited her in hospital. A losing lotto ticket. It had been purchased in Townsville using Les's card on Tuesday 20 April. According to Leanne, Les gave it to her the next evening when he visited her in hospital.

[Detective]

So can you remember your father giving this to you?

[Leanne Phillips]

I remember finding it on the side of the drawer. And I'm pretty sure that he put it there.

[Detective]

You're pretty sure he put it there?

[Leanne Phillips]

I think so, yeah. I'm pretty sure.

[Detective Noel Powers]

It's one of those things that don't really stack up. And I suppose your curiosity is piqued even more because you just think, well, that is quite unusual.

[Jo Townsend]

It didn't stack up because we know police believe Les never made it to hospital to visit Leanne. If that's right, there's no way he could have given her the lotto ticket.

[Callum Dines]

Someone used Les's pension card to collect his train ticket and forge his signature. Maybe that same person used Les's card to buy this lotto ticket.

[Detective Noel Powers]

So, you know, again, there's one version that doesn't add up.

[Narrator / Investigator]

So, Cal, this is the big question mark in this case. Who's right here, the police or Leanne? Because after investigating it, police are certain Les didn't make that trip to Brisbane. But Leanne is sure she saw Les in hospital.

[Callum Dines]

Well, a coroner looked into this nearly 30 years after Les went missing, and we're going to cover that in detail in a later episode. But the coroner found that Leanne had a genuinely held but mistaken belief that her father visited her in hospital.

[Narrator / Investigator]

So, in other words, the coroner's saying, I believe you. You're not lying, but it didn't happen.

[Jo Townsend]

Exactly.

[Narrator / Investigator]

What about the lotto ticket, then?

[Jo Townsend]

Well, the coroner basically found that Leanne

[Callum Dines]

had nothing to do with it.

[Jo Townsend]

There was no evidence to suggest she has.

[Narrator / Investigator]

So the coroner determined that Les never visited her in hospital. He never handed her the lotto ticket which Leanne presented to police. But also that Leanne is a credible witness and genuinely believes she's telling the truth. So the short story is that Wednesday visit at the hospital didn't happen.

[Callum Dines]

Couldn't have happened.

[Jo Townsend]

Having proven that Les never made it to Brisbane, police were working off a theory that the reason he missed his house settlement was because by Monday 19th April he was dead.

[Detective Noel Powers]

I've got no doubt that before the 19th and even before the 20th he'd, he'd met his demise. And I'll say that now, you know, like we. There's no doubt about it that Les Ball had been killed prior to that day.

[Jo Townsend]

And so police focused on Sunday 18th April, the last day Les was seen alive. Now remember, Les was living in the garage of the Phillips home. There was David Phillips in the house. That's his son in law, the ex cop. Before moving to Queensland, he served 10 years as a police officer in Victoria, five years as a detective. And he was a good detective too. He worked on the major crime and armed robbery squads and received multiple commendations. Also living there was Margaret Phillips, Les's first ex wife, and David and Leanne's four kids.

[Narrator / Investigator]

David says he left the house on Sunday 18 April with his mother in law, Margaret, and all of David and Leanne's kids. And when they returned at 2pm that day, Les wasn't home. David noticed Les's car and trailer were gone, all of his belongings were gone and the fridge had been cleared out. Here's what David told police about that day in a 2011 interview. We've got our hands on a copy of that interview that was tabled at the inquest. And this is the first time that his side of the story has been publicly aired. Listen carefully because audio recordings back then were terrible.

[Interviewer]

David, can you state your full and correct name? David Jeremy Phillips. And your date of birth? Before 656. And where were you born?

[Narrator / Investigator]

No one in the video, the camera is focused on David's profile. He's wearing a light blue polo, still has a full head of hair, but it's gone white and he's wearing glasses.

[Interviewer]

David, what we intend to question you about today is the disappearance and suspected murder of Mr. Leslie Rathbourne up at Townsville in 1993.

[Narrator / Investigator]

The detectives tell David he's being asked about the disappearance and suspected murder of Les and David's answers are curt and a little bit sarcastic.

[Interviewer]

Just sorry, you've just explained it.

[Narrator / Investigator]

The police remind David of his rights.

[Interviewer]

Basically you have the right to remain, sir, if you say it. So do you understand that?

[Narrator / Investigator]

Here's the As a former cop himself, this routine should be very familiar to David.

[Interviewer]

We've been sentenced by names and been the Hungry Jacks. When you say we, who do you the Kingston Mountain. You remember seeing Les at all on that?

[Narrator / Investigator]

In case you missed that, David says the family were out visiting display homes. This was a regular outing for the family. Les had put a deposit on a block of land and the Phillips were planning on building a family home on it. They stopped at Hungry Jack's and went. When they returned home, Les was gone. Inside the house, David and his mother in law Margaret found a note from Les saying a family friend called Tony Hoyer had called by. Although that note was never handed in to police. So police spoke to Tony. He told detectives he'd called around to the Phillips house in the afternoon with a bag of prawns. He worked in the seafood industry and would often join the Phillips for dinner. According to Tony, when he got to the Phillips household, Les was the only one there putting a suitcase into the boot of his car. Les's bright blue homemade trailer was there and it appeared as if it was about to be hitched to the car.

[Detective Noel Powers]

Just said he was packing stuff into the boot and he told him he was on his way down to Brisbane to go and see Leanne.

[Narrator / Investigator]

Tony asked if he could go inside to put the prawns in the fridge, but Les said no, he'd already locked up the house.

[Detective Noel Powers]

It more or less gave us a start point. You develop a timeline in these investigations and you know, certain timeline evidence indicates certain things on certain dates and it gives us a true picture of what really happened from there.

[Callum Dines]

So police now have another last possible sighting of lesbian by family friend Tony hoyer on Sunday 18th April. On one hand, Tony's account lines up with Leanne's story of Les catching a train to Brisbane to visit her. Except Tony said Les was leaving right then on the Sunday. So the timeline's out of whack. Leanne told police Les visited her on a Wednesday and the train ticket was booked for Tuesday. So why would Les be packing up and heading out to the train on the Sunday? And also here's the kicker, the train from Townsville to Brisbane, it didn't run on Sundays back then. To be fair to Tony, he's given several statements over the years and has made it clear that he can't remember

[Jo Townsend]

exactly what day he saw Les and

[Callum Dines]

there's no evidence that he had anything to do with Les's disappearance. But Les's belongings were gone from the Phillips house. For police, the question remained, why would Les pack all of his possessions in his house, car and trailer, then leave the car at the train station? David told the police that he knew Les's car was at the train station and left a note on the windscreen. When police found the car, they saw the note and it read, les, Margaret has gone home. Could you please ring or call in David? But where was that trailer?

[Narrator / Investigator]

Meanwhile, Les's lawyer and real estate agent were both frantically calling the house looking for Les.

[Detective Noel Powers]

From what they told us, there was sort of someone there. The lady who answered the phone and we'd got no idea who it was, was sort of appeared to be a little bit reluctant or didn't particularly want to pass any information on.

[Narrator / Investigator]

The real estate agent kept calling and eventually got through to Leanne, who was home from hospital by then. She tried to explain the urgency of the situation, but Leanne kept repeating that she didn't know where her father was. Eventually, Leanne told the real estate agent not to call again, that they were a nuisance caller.

[Detective Noel Powers]

There just seemed to be an overall, oh, look, he's gone away, we don't know where he is and that's it.

[Narrator / Investigator]

Even if Les had a habit of just going bush, Les's trailer had gone missing. All of his possessions were gone and his lawyer and real estate agent were both frantically calling because Les hadn't shown up to collect the keys to his new home and his car was sitting at Townsville train station out in the open. Why didn't David, the former police officer, report him missing? In July 1993, nearly two months after Les vanished, the police got a break. They'd circulated images of Les's trailer in the media, hoping locals would recognise it. The trailer was one of a kind, pretty distinctive looking. It was hand built and bright blue.

[Detective Noel Powers]

We'd received a phone call from a gentleman who I suppose part time was. His interest was to go to a bush area just down the outskirts of Townsville that was notorious for just people just dumping, I won't say rubbish, but just car bodies, bits of metal and things like that. So he'd go and scrounge, pull metal out and either sell it to scrap metal merchants or just on sell it. So he got in contact with us and told us that he'd found remnants

[Narrator / Investigator]

of a trailer the trailer had been burned and only its metal parts, the wheels, axle and frame remained. Amongst the ashes there was some cutlery, glass fragments and melted tools. The trailer had been full when it was set alight. The scrap metal collector took the trailer's axle leaving the metal frame behind. When he came back to collect the frame a week later, it was gone. He also noticed that the ashes and debris from the fire had been raked up. When he returned again another week later, he he saw the area had been burned. A second time he saw something else too.

[Detective Noel Powers]

He saw someone probably about 150 metres away, just standing, leaning against a car. Wasn't able to elaborate what sort of car it was, who it was, give us any description but he said this person stood and watched him for at least 15 to 20 minutes.

[Narrator / Investigator]

Another local had also stumbled upon the trailer. He also returned to the scene a week later and and noticed that the fire and debris had been cleared up. He noticed two people, a guy in his 30s and another man he couldn't describe near the burned out trailer. When Noel arrived on the scene it was immediately obvious whoever had set the trailer alight had tried to cover their tracks.

[Detective Noel Powers]

And in fact later on when we went back and did a search with the sesame, we found separate piles of the debris. Someone had gathered it all up and spread it out in separate piles around the area. One was about 150 metres away from where the trailer was found. So there'd been a deliberate attempt to hide the remnants of the fire.

[Narrator / Investigator]

In other words, someone had made at least two attempts to completely destroy the trailer. And even though there wasn't much of it left, police were pretty sure it belonged to Les.

[Detective Noel Powers]

The trailer had a specific stud pattern on the wheels that was quite unusual. So comparison of that with the photo that we had we were able to reasonably confident that that was Lez's trailer.

[Narrator / Investigator]

Police needed to do two things. First, identify whether Les's body was amongst the ashes and second, to make absolutely sure that this really was Les's trailer. They sifted through the crime scene collecting and logging what they found amongst the ash and asked Ed Ison, Les's ex wife, if she could identify anything that belonged to Les.

[Ed Ison]

So I flew up to Townsville, I was asked to go and I flew up to Townsville at my own experience, up to the police there and they took me to the police station and after that I was given bags and bags and bags of stuff that I had to go through with my fingers and to see if I could recognise anything. Well, I recognised quite a few things that probably only I would have known because we'd been married all those years.

[Narrator / Investigator]

Sure enough, amongst those tiny fragments, it recognised some old china that belonged to Les.

[Ed Ison]

I remember finding little scraps of just tiny bits, inch by an inch or something that I knew were part of a dinner set that was ours that I'd given him. You know, having to go through with my fingers to pick out any tiny little bit of that I knew was Les's. That was emotionally one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life because I'm going through ashes and all the time I didn't know whether his body had been burnt there. It was a horrible time for me, dreadful. But I didn't want Lachelle to have to do it. I went through and did it.

[Narrator / Investigator]

With confirmation that the burned out trailer was Les Balls, police were now certain they were dealing with a homicide. The same conclusion Officer Ian Naness had reached after just two days. But until then, Lachelle had been holding out hope that her dad was still alive. When you heard the news of the burnt out trailer and finding that trailer in July that year, is that when you realised 100% that your dad had been murdered?

[Lachelle Phillips]

I still had hope that he was still in a homeless shelter, like, well, I'd look at homeless people on the street and think, oh, my God, I double check to see if it was my dad or anything. Even though it wasn't, was just horrendous. Yeah, I always had hope, but I sort of knew. Yeah.

[Narrator / Investigator]

Police analysed the ashes. Les wasn't burned along with his trailer. And the ses, or State Emergency Service, helped search the area too. There was no sign of Les. They had no idea where he could be. It seemed to Detective Noel Powers that whoever had murdered Les had created an elaborate smokescreen to buy themselves time. They'd booked a ticket to Dolby via Brisbane in Les's name to make it appear as if he was alive. While they worked to completely destroy his

[Detective Noel Powers]

trailer, someone had gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal the evidence, to create a version that would distract us, that would put us on the wrong path.

[Jo Townsend]

Finding the trailer was a lucky break break for police, especially because they missed other clues. The first inquest heard evidence from the scrap metal collector that he gave the police the number plate of someone who'd apparently seen the trailer before it was set alight. But police lost the details of this vital witness. By the time the scrap metal collector was on the witness stand, he couldn't remember the plate number. And a woman who cleaned the Phillips house twice a week, told police she saw a trailer that looked like Les's full of furniture at the building site where David was rumored to have dumped Les's body. But police didn't take a statement from the house cleaner. By this point, police were paying close attention to David and Leanne.

[Detective Noel Powers]

No one else came into that realm. So those two, in my opinion, had a case to answer.

[Narrator / Investigator]

Although police had questions for Leanne, she wasn't their main focus. She was in hospital when Les disappeared. She couldn't have had anything to do with his murder. But they were zeroing in on her husband, David. He was at home when Les disappeared. He knew Les's car was sitting abandoned at Townsville train station. He should have been the first person to report Les missing. Instead, he was passive and evasive.

[Detective Noel Powers]

If he didn't ask the question, he wouldn't provide any information at all. And it was, you know, use the expression, like pulling blood out of a stone.

[Narrator / Investigator]

But police had no physical clues and no body. They needed evidence and so they conducted a forensic search of the Phillips home, paying close attention to. To the garage.

[Detective Noel Powers]

David was fairly nonplussed by the whole thing. If the police are at your house executing a search warrant, of course you'd be concerned, you know, the, the normal person, under normal conditions would be. Didn't seem to worry.

[Narrator / Investigator]

One possible reason why David was so relaxed was he knew exactly how murder investigations play out. He'd been a detective on the major crime scene squad.

[Detective Noel Powers]

I think he knew what we were potentially doing and, you know, part of the investigative strategy. We were able to obtain listening devices for the houses as well too.

[Narrator / Investigator]

By listening devices, Noel Means. The house was bugged. Police obtained approval to secretly enter the Phillips home and install covert microphones. One was shoved between the couch cushions, hoping it would pick up something incriminating. Said by David. Staff were monitoring the feed on a 24 hour roster.

[Detective Noel Powers]

The TV was on all the time, so there was a constant noise in the background where you didn't get to hear too much at all. And that would indicate David was aware of the methodology and simply chose to do it and simply used the methods to distract us from it.

[Narrator / Investigator]

At this point, David had been out of the force for about six, seven years and was working as a labourer on a Townsville shopping centre development.

[Detective Noel Powers]

David was subject to a bit of, I won't say bullying, but, you know, there were people he worked with were giving him a little bit of stick about, you know, is he buried? Where is he buried?

[Narrator / Investigator]

In fact, a rumour was going around the building site that David had buried Les's body beneath a cloth concrete manhole in the development's car park.

[Callum Dines]

About a year into our investigation, me and Joe decided to head to Townsville. It's an industrial city, a big army town with about 200,000 people. It's sunny all year round, sticky and humid. We'd been looking at Les Ball's case for long enough that we needed to see some of the places, places ourselves. Our first stop was on the outskirts of town where Les's trailer was discovered.

[Jo Townsend]

Okay, so we're just pulling in. Well, you heard it, we're pulling right into Jerky Street. So this is where Les's burnt out trailer was found. And the way Noel described it, this was a well known dumping area in Townsville. If you wanted to get rid of an old car or get rid of a trailer, this is the place to dump property.

[Narrator / Investigator]

It's exactly this sort of place, isn't it? I can totally see why whoever dumped Les's trailer thought this was the perfect place to get away with it.

[Jo Townsend]

And you know, I would have said a body too, except that we know the SES and police, they did really thoroughly search this area.

[Narrator / Investigator]

There's no reason why Les has remained. Les's body couldn't have been buried here. We know that it wasn't found with the remains of the burnt out trailer. We know it definitely wasn't there because that was so carefully combed over by forensics. And Les's remains were definitely not found there.

[Jo Townsend]

Let's talk about this. Let's assume that it was David Phillips. Okay? So if you're David Phillips, the critical thing is they never find find the body. And that's one of the reasons why David has been a person of interest, a suspect for so long, but has never been arrested or charged with anything because there is no physical evidence. All we have are a series of inconsistencies and his suspicious behavior in not reporting Les missing and never seeming too concerned about Les missing. I think it's unlikely then that he would have buried Les there because remember, he's a former detective. He would know that if they did find the trailer, they'd also be looking for a body in that location. So I don't reckon Les is buried there.

[Callum Dines]

We drive up a highway and back into suburban Townsville before finding our way to the Willows, a sprawling multi level shopping center where 30 years ago, David was rumored by his colleagues to have dumped Les's body.

[Jo Townsend]

I'm imagining this place. Place in 1993. It would have been a really Big building site, a lot of earth moving equipment, a lot of yellow builders, soil busy, lots of point of access as well. Absolutely easy to slip into.

[Narrator / Investigator]

Potentially no CCTV at night.

[Jo Townsend]

Exactly.

[Leanne Phillips]

And

[Jo Townsend]

again, just to go back to this rumor, it's that Les was buried under a manhole under some concrete in the car park that was under construction. As soon as that concrete was poured, you'd have a pretty good. It'd be a pretty good bet that no one would ever see what was

[Callum Dines]

under there because why would they?

[Narrator / Investigator]

I don't even know what a forensics person would do here. I didn't expect this huge sprawling car park with all different additions over time, only one multi story section which is underground. And this feeling that I understand now that Noel would have been confronted with this feeling of helplessness, of if you are going to look for a body in concrete here, where on earth do you start? For precisely that reason, the rumor remained just that, a rumor.

[Detective Noel Powers]

From my understanding, it was a fairly decent sized slab. So in order to have to dig the slab up or break the slab up and explore, you'd need something a lot more than just unconfirmed rumor from an unknown witness.

[Narrator / Investigator]

The forensic search on the Phillips home turned up nothing, nor did the listening devices. The only physical clue police found was, was a fingerprint on Les's rearview mirror. It didn't belong to Les, but it wasn't a match for David Phillips either. Did you, Noel, ever get to a point where you felt like you were pretty close to making an arrest?

[Detective Noel Powers]

No, unfortunately we never got to that point. There was just. It's one of those ones and I'm fairly confident in saying that in some instances, particularly in unsolved cases, that the offender is known, but there's just not enough evidence to put it to court.

[Callum Dines]

The biggest missing piece was Les. Police were sure he was dead, but without a body, they weren't 100% certain that they were dealing with a homicide. At the end of May 1994, Noel handed his report to the coroner. He'd concluded that Les had met his death at the hands of a person or persons unknown.

[Jo Townsend]

But that's pretty much what police thought from day one. The only hope of getting closer to finding out what happened to Les and who was responsible lay with a coronial inquest that opened later that year.

[Lachelle Phillips]

I was distraught, like, so upset. I was young, my mum explained it all to me, but I didn't really understand what a coroner's inquest was.

[Narrator / Investigator]

A coronial inquest operates a bit like a court. There's a magistrate presiding. Witnesses give evidence. Its purpose is fact finding, though. To probe the circumstances surrounding someone's disappearance or death. A coroner can direct the police to investigate or refer matters for prosecution. The coroner doesn't say guilty or innocent. They just decide if the case should be taken to the courts. The inquest was held in Townsville and Brisbane. Les's real estate agent and solicitor were questioned. Noel was questioned about his investigation. So were employees from Townsville train station. And Tony Hoyer. What an absolutely horrible experience for a young adult like Lachelle. She's not yet 20. Listening to all these details of her dad disappearing. Maybe he was murdered. It must have been the most awful experience.

[Callum Dines]

Truly is unimaginable. They're going over in great detail about what is the worst thing that could ever happen to anyone and is certainly the worst thing that's ever happened to lashelle in her life. And yet, as awful as it is, she must have been really hoping for an outcome here because this was her opportunity to find out what happened to her dad. After hearing three days of evidence, the coroner handed down his findings in 1995. Police were still sure David was guilty, but the coroner didn't agree. In fact, he wasn't sure that Les was even dead. The coroner found that some person or persons deliberately tried to convey the impression that Les traveled to Brisbane and that there were strong indications to suspect that Les was the victim of foul play. But in the end, he delivered an open finding. And that was because of David's evidence. The coroner said had it not been for his evidence of Les's tendency to go missing for periods of time, he, he would quote, have no hesitation in finding the cause of the missing person's disappearance was foul play.

[Jo Townsend]

Here's.

[Ed Ison]

I thought that they haven't got all the answers here. And I just. We left that court feeling, well, that was a waste of time.

[Callum Dines]

The coroner delivering an open finding is critically important. Had he ruled that Les was the victim of foul play, he could have ordered the police to keep investigating.

[Jo Townsend]

Instead, the coroner was persuaded that Les had a tendency to go missing. According to David, he'd done it in March 1993 in very similar circumstances. Here's what David told police in 2011.

[Detective]

He vanishes and he's reported missing a

[Leanne Phillips]

month later in May.

[Interviewer]

There's a reason for him when he reported because he's kind of the first.

[Detective]

Okay, and what were the circumstances?

[Interviewer]

He disappeared for about three weeks. We tried to find a good floor and he told Lee off.

[Narrator / Investigator]

So according to David, not only had Les disappeared for Three weeks without saying a word. But when they tried to find him, Les told Leanne off, and he wouldn't tell her where he'd been, other than just up north.

[Jo Townsend]

Unusually for David, this story was very specific. He said it happened in March 1993 and that Les was away for three weeks. But David's statement didn't match Leanne's. He said Les had disappeared when Leanne was in hospital. But according to Leanne, Les waited until she was discharged, home and feeling better before leaving. She said in a police statement, it was when I came home and dad knew I was okay. He went away.

[Callum Dines]

What's more, Leanne's statement makes it clear that Les told them he was going away before he left.

[Narrator / Investigator]

So we tried to find the evidence of this earlier disappearance that David was talking about.

[Jo Townsend]

We looked at Les's bank statements, ATM records, the Phillips phone records covering the time period Les apparently vanished for three weeks. We combed through all of the police statements, and in fact, Les wasn't away for two, three weeks at all. He was only away for six days.

[Narrator / Investigator]

So David was lying. It wasn't when Leanne was in hospital. It wasn't for three weeks. And Les told Leanne he was going on a trip.

[Callum Dines]

Yeah, and David said they had no idea where he'd been when he got back. But guess what Les was doing on that trip away?

[Narrator / Investigator]

Buying a house.

[Callum Dines]

That's right, buying the house in Cardwell. By making it seem as if Les would disappear all the time and then turn up alive and well, David created

[Jo Townsend]

a crazy, credible excuse for his lack

[Callum Dines]

of action when Les vanished and painted himself as the son in law of an elderly missing man rather than a suspect in his murder. But David wouldn't hold off that suspicion forever.

[Jo Townsend]

Next time on Perfect Alibi, we look into David's lies.

[Interviewer]

He had no regard for the truth.

[Narrator / Investigator]

He was a liar, compulsive liar.

[Detective Noel Powers]

Storyteller.

[Jo Townsend]

And he's only making up these things

[Detective Noel Powers]

to enhance his reputation.

[Narrator / Investigator]

And by following the money, we uncover the strangest murder we've ever investigated. Nothing added up. Nothing made any sense. I believe the motive was financial because looking at it, there doesn't seem or appear to be any other reason. If you've got more information on this case, you can contact [e-mail] that's Le S B, a double L podcast. Protonmail.com.