Bonus episode - The Inquest

Summary

Witness: William Tyrrell – Bonus Episode: The Inquest

Host: Dan Box and Nina Young
Release Date: November 3, 2024

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Introduction

In this compelling bonus episode of Witness: William Tyrrell, hosts Dan Box and Nina Young delve into the intricacies of the ongoing inquest into the disappearance of three-year-old William Tyrrell. Ten years after William vanished from his family home in Kendall, New South Wales, the case remains unresolved, with recent developments suggesting that his foster mother may hold crucial information. This episode provides listeners with an in-depth exploration of the inquest's progression, the tensions between police investigations and coroner proceedings, and the human emotions intertwined with this heartbreaking case.

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Background: The Mysterious Disappearance

William Tyrrell was last seen on September 12, 2014, wearing his favorite Spider-Man suit, from his home in Kendall on the Mid North Coast of New South Wales. Despite extensive searches and numerous leads, William has never been found, leaving his family and the community in a state of perpetual uncertainty and grief.

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Purpose and Nature of the Inquest

Dan Box provides a clear explanation of what an inquest entails, distinguishing it from a criminal court hearing. An inquest is a legal process aimed at uncovering the circumstances surrounding a person's death—in this case, William's disappearance. Unlike criminal courts, an inquest does not determine guilt but seeks to establish the facts of the case.

Dan Box [02:24]: "An inquest is an attempt to find out what happened to somebody who died. And it will have lawyers, but their job is to investigate the case and represent the different people involved in it. No one is found guilty, but the idea is we find out what happened."

The inquest into William Tyrrell's disappearance began in 2019 and has been ongoing for five years, highlighting the complexity and sensitivity of the case.

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Current Status of the Inquest

As of the episode's recording, the inquest is set to resume after a hiatus, with the latest developments suggesting a significant shift in focus towards William's foster mother. This development marks a pivotal moment in the investigation, as the police publicly expressing suspicion raises questions about the alignment—or lack thereof—between the inquest and law enforcement efforts.

Nina Young [06:04]: "Wow."

Dan Box [06:04]: "It's still uncertain."

The hosts discuss how previous hearings have been intermittent, often pausing without clear explanations, which correlates with new leads or shifts in police focus.

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Discrepancies Between Police Investigations and the Inquest

A central theme of the episode revolves around the apparent disconnect between the police's stance and the inquest's findings. While police have openly suggested that William's foster mother might have information about his disappearance, the inquest's records have not explicitly pointed fingers at her or the foster parents.

Nina Young [01:02]: "So where we're at now, we know that the police suspect the foster mother."

Dan Box [01:17]: "We've got a suspect and we think we are close to cracking this case."

Conversely, the senior lawyer for the inquest maintains that no relatives, including the foster parents, have been identified as suspects based on the evidence presented thus far.

Dan Box [01:57]: "There's no suggestion the foster parents are suspects."

This divergence highlights the complexity of the case and raises concerns about potential biases or new evidence coming to light that may not yet be fully integrated into the inquest's framework.

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Issues with Witnesses and Testimonies

The hosts express significant concern over the inquest's handling of witnesses, particularly the absence of testimonies from key detectives who have led the investigation over the past decade. Detectives Hans Rupp, Gary Jubilee, and David Laidlaw, despite their pivotal roles, have not been called to testify, which is atypical for such proceedings.

Dan Box [06:17]: "None of them have been called to give evidence, and that's despite different people asking for those detectives to be called."

This lack of transparency undermines the inquest's credibility and raises questions about the thoroughness of the investigation.

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Unusual Handling of Inquest Proceedings

Several irregularities in the inquest's conduct are highlighted, including the frequent use of closed hearings and non-publication orders, which restrict the dissemination of evidence and findings. While some level of confidentiality is standard to protect investigative methods and sensitive information, the excessive secrecy in William's case appears excessive and has been a point of contention.

Dan Box [12:15]: "So the first of those is closed court, looking at the way the inquest has run over the years..."

Furthermore, the sudden pauses and resumptions of hearings without substantial public explanations suggest potential interference or shifts in investigative priorities, possibly influenced by emerging evidence against the foster mother.

Dan Box [05:00]: "...the coroner at the time said she was gonna hand down her findings in June of 2021. And then it seems like the police shifted focus..."

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Possible Future Developments

As the inquest prepares to resume, there is anticipation of significant revelations. The hosts speculate on whether the inquest will address the newly surfaced suspicions towards the foster mother and how it will reconcile these with the existing findings that have not implicated her.

Dan Box [07:54]: "So it's still uncertain."

Listeners are left with questions about whether the inquest will align more closely with the police's suspicions and what new evidence might emerge to either substantiate or refute these claims.

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Human Element and Emotional Impact

Amid the procedural and legal complexities, the episode underscores the profound human emotion at the heart of the inquest. Personal testimonies, such as that of a ten-year-old girl determined to find her brother, highlight the deep-seated pain and resilience of William's family.

Dan Box [14:21]: "Please help my family, most of all me, find our precious William."

This focus on the human aspect serves as a poignant reminder that beyond the legal battles and investigative techniques, this case profoundly affects real people struggling for closure and justice.

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Conclusion

The bonus episode of Witness: William Tyrrell offers a nuanced and thorough examination of the ongoing inquest into William's disappearance. Dan Box and Nina Young adeptly navigate the complexities of the case, shedding light on the procedural anomalies and potential shifts in investigative focus. The episode emphasizes the necessity for transparency and accountability in such a high-profile case while honoring the emotional toll it exacts on those involved.

As the inquest resumes, listeners are left with a sense of anticipation and urgency, hoping for breakthroughs that can finally bring answers to William Tyrrell's family and the broader community.

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Notable Quotes

• Dan Box [02:24]: "If William was murdered, statistically, most murdered children turn out to have been harmed by someone who knew them..."

• Nina Young [05:00]: "It started to stop in October 2020. And the coroner at the time said she was gonna hand down her findings in June of 2021."

• Dan Box [10:56]: "I've never seen anything like that where an inquest lawyer will publicly say, this thing that's going on... that's nothing to do with us."

• Dan Box [14:18]: "Not often with much success."

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Follow and Subscribe

Stay updated with the latest developments in the William Tyrrell case by subscribing to Witness: William Tyrrell on platforms like Apple Podcasts, and follow news.com.au on their social media channels for exclusive content and daily reports.

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Note: This summary is based on the transcript provided and excludes non-content segments such as advertisements and introductions.

Transcript

[Nina Young]

Is it recording?

[Dan Box]

Yeah.

[Nina Young]

Okay.

[Dan Box]

Okay, Nina, In a few hours, the inquest into William Tyrrell's disappearance is going to resume and we're gonna be there.

[Nina Young]

Well, you will.

[Dan Box]

I'll be there. We'll do daily reports on what's happening in court for news.com au and we will do a full episode of this podcast saying what's happened in court and released on Friday. So that's the end of the week's hearings.

[Nina Young]

Yeah.

[Dan Box]

But to make sense of what's happening, we thought it was worth doing this bonus episode, which is going to be short and sharp, just setting out what this inquest is and what it's heard so far.

[Nina Young]

That's right, because it's been going on for a long time. When did it start?

[Dan Box]

2019.

[Nina Young]

2019.

[Dan Box]

It's been going on for five years. It's older than my youngest daughter, which is extraordinary.

[Nina Young]

So where we're at now, we know that the police suspect the foster mother.

[Dan Box]

Yeah.

[Nina Young]

And they've been very clear. But they suspect the foster mother is.

[Dan Box]

It's been on the front page of the newspaper saying, we have a suspect and we think we are close to cracking this case.

[Nina Young]

Yep. And it's been said in court as well.

[Dan Box]

They've said in court explicitly, we think William's foster mother was involved in his disappearance.

[Nina Young]

And all of that sort of started to come out in the media and within the courts, I think about 2021.

[Dan Box]

After the last hearing of the inquest. Yeah.

[Nina Young]

So we were looking back over the inquest and what it covered, and it's a really sharp difference, I think.

[Dan Box]

I think the key thing was in the context of the fact that police are now saying they have a suspect and that suspect is William's foster mother. The key thing is that if you go through the records of the inquest to date, there's no suggestion the foster parents are suspects.

[Nina Young]

It's really not framed that way, in fairness.

[Dan Box]

The senior lawyer who's working on this inquest said investigators have not positively identified that no relatives were involved in William's disappearance. So he's leaving it open. But he also said, I suspect the evidence will show that William was likely taken, that William's disappearance was likely the result of human intervention worldwide.

[Nina Young]

These cases have proven to be the.

[Dan Box]

Most difficult to solve. This is counsel assisting the coroner, Gerard Craddock, sc, who was speaking at the opening of the inquest in 2019. If William was murdered, and that's a.

[Nina Young]

Big if, so he said, statistically, most murdered children turn out to have been harmed by someone who knew them, and only very few are harmed by strangers. And it's about maybe 3% of cases. But he does say William might be one of those cases. It may be one of those rare 3% of cases. And there's no suggestion in anything that he says or the evidence at the inquest that he thinks William's mother is responsible.

[Dan Box]

The offender in such crimes is a.

[Nina Young]

Sneaky, complex offender who has hidden his or her desires for some time and has chosen to act on those desires.

[Dan Box]

So that is strange. The police seem to be looking at it one way, the inquest is looking at it another. Or at least they were. It's worth saying at this point what an inquest is. An inquest is a court hearing, but it's not a criminal court hearing. So in a criminal court, someone is found not guilty or guilty. And the way it works is you basically have two sets of lawyers, one prosecuting the case saying this person is guilty and one defending it saying this person is not guilty. An inquest doesn't work like that at all. An inquest is an attempt to find out what happened to somebody who died. And it will have lawyers, but their job is to investigate the case and represent the different people involved in it. No one is found guilty, but the idea is we find out what happened.

[Nina Young]

Can a coroner recommend that someone be charged?

[Dan Box]

A coroner can recommend that a case goes to the state's Director of Public Prosecutions, who will decide if someone is charged. And I've seen that happen. You have inquests that start. It becomes pretty clear that there's a lot of evidence against one person and the coroner says, I'm going to stop this here, and refers it off for a possible charge and then it can end up in a criminal court with a murder trial and someone can be found guilty.

[Nina Young]

Now, I haven't been to many. I haven't been to any inquests.

[Dan Box]

I'll be honest. Inquests, as a journalist, are fascinating.

[Nina Young]

I've read through, you know, findings. I've read through transcripts. I've never actually been to one. There was a few things I thought were unusual about.

[Dan Box]

There's a lot that was unusual. Yeah.

[Nina Young]

And I just wanted to run this by you. Cause you've been to Moore. It seemed to run for quite a long time.

[Dan Box]

Yeah, it's run for years and it's been really stop, start. The inquest seemed to have finished up. Yeah, it started in March 2019 and it seemed to stop in October 2020. And the coroner at the time said she was gonna hand down her findings in June of 2021. And then it seems like the police shifted focus and it seems like after that point they started looking at William's foster parents. And that is unusual because the police and the inquest normally work closely together. So it would be good at this hearing that's starting today if we can have someone explain what has happened in the years since we last had a hearing. But we don't know if that's going to happen because we don't know which witnesses are going to be called. I know that lists of witnesses have been drawn up and sent to the different lawyers involved and I've asked to see that list to see who is going to give evidence. I've asked more than once and it's not been provided. The reason, they say, is that that list still hasn't been finalized.

[Nina Young]

Wow.

[Dan Box]

So it's still uncertain.

[Nina Young]

So the police and the inquest, they're normally working together.

[Dan Box]

Yeah. Tell you what is strange about this inquest is who's not been called to give evidence. So three different detectives have overseen the investigation to William's disappearance over the past 10 years. There was Hans Rupp, there was Gary Jubilee, and there's currently David Laidlaw. Now, none of them have been called to give evidence, and that's despite different people asking for that to happen. So William's birth family, William's foster family and at least one of the other lawyers have asked for those detectives to be called.

[Nina Young]

And that's standard in an inquest generally.

[Dan Box]

I would have thought it was almost. The first witness you call is the police officer in charge of the investigation to say how the investigation went down.

[Nina Young]

Did they give a reasoning why? No, hands are up.

[Dan Box]

They didn't really give a reasoning why any of them weren't called. And you've ended up in a strange place in that the most senior cop who's been called to give evidence was a detective sergeant called Laura Beecroft. She was on the strike force for about three years out of the 10 it's been running. She joined in September 2015, the year after William went missing. Now, I've met Laura a couple of times, a long time ago when she was working in the sex crime squad. And she struck me as a dedicated, serious detective. But she was only on the case for three years and she wasn't the boss, nor was she the second in command of the strike force. She acted up in the role of second in command at times, but she wasn't in charge. So why not call her bosses?

[Nina Young]

Yeah, it was really unusual. And there was parts of the inquest where they were asking her questions, like, why do you think this decision was made?

[Dan Box]

More than that. So she was asked why her boss, Gary Jublin, may have made decisions he made. And the lawyers were arguing whether she was able to answer that, whether she could speculate about what was going on in Gary Jublin's mind. But Gary Jublin was sitting in the room at the time, so he went to watch the inquest as a member of the public, and she was asked what he was thinking. She was told, you can't speculate on what Gary's thinking. Gary is sitting there in the room. He has publicly said he would like to give evidence and has been not given the opportunity to do so. So no one is asking Gary what Gary thought, but they're asking Laura what Gary might have thought.

[Nina Young]

Yeah, very strange.

[Dan Box]

Something else that was strange was the way it seemed to start and stop and you'd have hearings and then they'd stop for months without any explanation. Now, you have looked at this recently and you've looked at. There seems to be a kind of a correlation between when different leads are being pursued by the inquest or different witnesses are coming forward. And we do know in the first couple of years, the police and the inquest team were running an investigation because you had new people coming forward who we'd never heard about before. And the police and the inquest seemed to be working together.

[Nina Young]

Yes, they definitely did. And you can see the correlation of timings, where the police have obviously decided they want to pursue some new leads or a suspect, and they've obviously paused the inquest to give them space to.

[Dan Box]

Do that, or at least we assume that's what they do.

[Nina Young]

I mean, we assume that, but the timings definitely do line up for that.

[Dan Box]

And we don't have any better explanation, because no explanation is given. No explanation. Yeah.

[Nina Young]

And in some cases, you know, they'd say, this has been suspended for a.

[Dan Box]

Very good reason, which is kind of a wink of. Or a nod that we are doing something in. In the background here.

[Nina Young]

So you have to assume at that point, yes, they are working together, but.

[Dan Box]

I'm not sure it is the case that now they are working together. So, in June of last year, the police sent a brief of evidence to the State's Director of Public Prosecution, seeking advice on whether they could charge William's foster mother. And Gerard Craddock, who's the lead lawyer working with the inquest, he said publicly, I should make as clear as possible that this request for advice has nothing to do with the inquest. It's not a coronial referral. It did not come from the council assisting team. That's his team. It's not a request for advice by this court or anyone associated with this court, which is all very gentlemanly and loyally, but I've never seen anything like that where an inquest lawyer will publicly say, this thing that's going on, on this case we're working on, that's nothing to do with us. It struck me as very strange.

[Nina Young]

So what we've said so far is the first inquest, or at least the first part of it, very focused on the search evidence from the foster parents. And then the sort of second half of the inquest, they start looking into other persons of interest. And presumably we're going to come back to a very different scene, because the police have obviously got a new focus now, so it's going to be interesting. Are they going to address that? How quickly are they going to address that and are the police going to explain that?

[Dan Box]

Well, for me, this is the big question about today's hearing is the sudden stop to the inquest. The last hearing was in 2020 and the findings were due in 2021. But now, more than three years later, the police are still investigating and the inquest is about to start back up with no public explanation why. So we have to assume it's because the police have been off investigating. So you're right. When it resumes today, we'd expect the police to say what they have or have not found, but we'd also expect answers. Have they ruled out other persons of interest? And there have been those other names which we'll go into later in this.

[Nina Young]

Series in some detail.

[Dan Box]

I know you've done a lot of work on that, but the reason those other persons of interest are important are that if the police have got evidence to back up their suspicion of William's foster mum being involved, if they've got direct evidence of that, then great, they've solved the case. But if they haven't, if they've only got a circumstantial case, then they have to be able to rule out anyone else who may have been involved. So those other names we've heard in the inquest, they have to have an answer as to whether or not those people can be ruled out.

[Nina Young]

Do we have any inkling of what the inquest is set to focus on?

[Dan Box]

I think there's a few things we can expect. So the first of those is closed court, looking at the way the inquest has run over the years, it's had a lot of times when the court has been emptied, no media, no members of the public, and it's been done behind closed doors. And that's previously been done at the request of the police. And the idea is it's to protect their investigation or to protect the discussion of police techniques. And that's all well and good, good. But we have to trust them that it is being done for the right reasons. Another thing we can expect is non publication orders, suppression orders, where the coroner says, you cannot say what this evidence is publicly, so in the media we can't do anything with it. And there have been a lot of those to date. This case is surrounded by secrecy and again, it's same thing, that can be for really good reasons, to protect people, to protect the police investigation. But it means we do have to trust that those orders are being put in place for the right reason and are being used in the right way. It means that justice is being done behind closed doors.

[Nina Young]

And those orders, the media can challenge them. Right. And they have in the past.

[Dan Box]

Yes. Not often with much success.

[Nina Young]

Okay, so what else are you expecting to see?

[Dan Box]

I'm expecting to see human moments. Like when a few years ago. The inquest has been held in Sydney, but it went up to Taree, near Kendal, where William went missing. And at the time, William's biological father said he couldn't afford to stay there because it was miles away from home and William's foster mother offered to pay. So it's a really simple human moment, or at the end of the inquest. So back in 2021, there was another human moment where a 10 year old girl, a statement was played in court on a video screen. And again, because of this secrecy, I can't say who that girl is. And this is not her voice, but these are her words. I hope this speech makes you solve the case. If it doesn't, when I am officially adult, I will be in the police force, a detective specifically, and I will find my brother and not give up until he is found. Please help my family, most of all me, find our precious William. In my mind, no one's trying. So I've made the decision to do something about that, to talk. So again, it shows you what's really at stake here, which is people, people's lives, people's emotions.

[Nina Young]

It's nice to have that reminder too, that humanity kind of exists within that system that's so like, you know, regimented. You've got to go here at this time. You have to do this and bow to the judge.

[Dan Box]

Yeah. That humanity exists within the system. That is quite inhumane. But the one thing that is good about the coroner's court is they really focus on that. The coroner will usually always say, we are here because of the person who died and their family are in the room. And they will always concentrate on that. And that is hugely important. So that, I think, is what we will see this week. We'll be there for this podcast. News.comau will also be covering the inquest daily on their site. I'm expecting who see something we don't expect.

[Nina Young]

I can't wait.

[Dan Box]

This is Witness William Tyrrell. I'm Dan Box.

[Nina Young]

And I'm Nina Young. Cocaine is a global industry where the.

[Dan Box]

Profits are counted up in millions and the losses measured out in murders because it's only business. And right now business is good. And I'm like, torture seller. What are you talking about? I don't think we can arrest our.

[Nina Young]

Way out of this.

[Dan Box]

Listen to Cocaine Inc.

[Nina Young]

Wherever you get your podcasts or visit.

[Dan Box]

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