Malicious Prosecution | 7

Summary

Witness: William Tyrrell – Episode 7: Malicious Prosecution

Hosted by Dan Box for news.com.au’s investigative podcast series, “Witness” delves deep into the perplexing case of William Tyrrell’s disappearance and the subsequent malicious prosecution of Bill Spedding. This episode uncovers the intricate details of the investigation, the wrongful arrest of Spedding, and the profound impact on his life and family.

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1. Introduction to the William Tyrrell Case

The podcast opens with the mysterious disappearance of three-year-old William Tyrrell from his family home in Kendall, New South Wales, on September 12, 2014. Last seen wearing his favorite Spider-Man suit, William’s disappearance has remained unsolved for nearly a decade. According to Detective Hans Rupp (00:00):

Hans Rupp: “There was an initial phase searching for a lost child. ... There was something more to the situation than a little boy lost in the bush.”

Rupp, a seasoned detective with over 41 years in law enforcement (01:16), believes William was abducted by a stranger, dismissing any notion that William wandered off on his own (02:34).

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2. Bill Spedding’s Role and Initial Interactions

Bill Spedding, an ordinary grandfather residing in Bonny Hills near the disappearance site, becomes a central figure in the investigation. On the morning of William’s disappearance, Spedding was repairing a washing machine at a nearby property (07:19). He reported receiving strange phone calls from the house but insisted he wasn’t present when William went missing (10:43).

Bill Spedding: “I wasn't there. ... The police were really getting upset with me because they were asking questions which I had no knowledge of.”

Despite his alibi, police suspicion soon turns towards him, leading to invasive raids on his home and business (09:02).

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3. The Investigation Process and Police Missteps

Detective Hans Rupp, nearing retirement during the initial investigation, later expresses concerns about the police’s focus on Spedding, fueled by an anonymous and dubious tip (16:33). Gary Jublin, a retired detective, takes over the case and orchestrates aggressive tactics to prosecute Spedding for unrelated historical offenses (22:14).

Hans Rupp: “They focused too heavily on Bill Spedding once they had what was probably a distorted piece of fabricated information on an anonymous tip.”

The investigation lacked a coherent plan, and despite Spedding’s clear alibi supported by bank records and eyewitnesses, the police pursued charges without sufficient evidence (20:02).

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4. Media Frenzy and Public Scrutiny

The police raids and subsequent arrest of Bill Spedding thrust him and his family into intense media scrutiny. Spedding describes the ordeal of being surrounded by media trucks and reporters, leading to chaos and distress (30:14). The relentless media presence exacerbated the stress on the Spedding family, causing their business to collapse and leading to severe emotional and financial strain (37:35).

Bill Spedding: “We felt we were in a fish birdcage or a fish tank where everyone's staring in.”

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5. Court Proceedings and Vindication

After enduring months of harassment, Spedding was eventually placed on bail. The trial spanned three years, during which Spedding and his family faced immense hardship. On March 5, 2018, Spedding was found not guilty of all charges. The New South Wales Supreme Court awarded him nearly $2 million in compensation in December 2022, condemning the prosecution as malicious and unfounded (41:19).

Court Judgment: “There was no reasonable or probable cause to institute or maintain the criminal prosecution against Mr. Spedding.”

The court criticized the police for relying on faulty information and failing to verify Spedding’s alibi, effectively ruining his life through baseless accusations.

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6. Reflections and Ongoing Implications

Detective Hans Rupp remains unapologetic, believing firmly in the methods employed during the investigation despite the court’s ruling (52:26). He acknowledges the court’s findings but does not express personal remorse towards Spedding.

Hans Rupp: “If you think otherwise, well, they're upset about it now.”

Gary Jublin, who oversaw the investigation, maintains his stance, claiming that the arrest was a necessary step in pursuing all leads to find William Tyrrell. However, the podcast highlights significant procedural flaws and ethical breaches in his approach.

The episode concludes by emphasizing the lasting damage inflicted on Spedding and his family, advocating for a parliamentary inquiry into the investigation's conduct to prevent similar miscarriages of justice in the future (56:18).

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Notable Quotes

• Hans Rupp (00:00): “There was something more to the situation than a little boy lost in the bush.”
• Bill Spedding (10:43): “I wasn't there. ... The police were really getting upset with me because they were asking questions which I had no knowledge of.”
• Hans Rupp (16:33): “They focused too heavily on Bill Spedding once they had what was probably a distorted piece of fabricated information on an anonymous tip.”
• Bill Spedding (30:14): “We felt we were in a fish birdcage or a fish tank where everyone's staring in.”
• Court Judgment (41:19): “There was no reasonable or probable cause to institute or maintain the criminal prosecution against Mr. Spedding.”
• Hans Rupp (52:26): “If you think otherwise, well, they're upset about it now.”

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Conclusion

Episode 7: "Malicious Prosecution" of the “Witness: William Tyrrell” series meticulously unravels the flawed investigation that led to the wrongful arrest and prosecution of Bill Spedding. Through interviews, court findings, and personal testimonies, the podcast underscores the devastating impact of police misconduct and media frenzy on an innocent individual and his family. The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the importance of due process and the dire consequences of its absence.

Transcript

[Hans Rupp]

Now, the Tyrrell case was perplexing because there wasn't a clear suspect.

[Dan Box]

This is Hands Rupp.

[Hans Rupp]

There was an initial phase searching for a lost child.

[Dan Box]

The detective who was in charge of the investigation into William Tyrrell's disappearance right from the beginning, and that went on.

[Hans Rupp]

For a couple of weeks, and that bore no fruit at all. So clearly there was something more to the situation than a little boy lost in the bush.

[Dan Box]

But Hans doesn't want to talk to me for this podcast.

[Hans Rupp]

He clearly didn't wander off by himself.

[Dan Box]

So this interview you're listening to was conducted by a colleague of mine, Caroline Overington, a few years ago. Now, for her own reporting on William's disappearance.

[Hans Rupp]

What is it that prompts that feeling? There's something more to this. It was the only logical explanation. He didn't wander off. We know he didn't wander off. So what else could there be? What was your feeling? Well, I think that someone grabbed him off the street, bundled him into a car and he just disappeared, which is really, really sad.

[Dan Box]

Hans has got good reason for thinking William was abducted. For one thing, he's a veteran policeman.

[Hans Rupp]

Look, I joined in February of 1974, so it's been a career of 41 years.

[Dan Box]

41 years, first in uniform and then as an investigator.

[Hans Rupp]

I went to Plain Clothes in the late 70s, 1979, and I went to the CIB in 1982.

[Dan Box]

CID means Hans was a detective. And he spent the decades since carving out a reputation as a tough, hardworking operator, working on the biggest crimes.

[Hans Rupp]

I think it was about 1992 I went to the homicide squad. So, effectively, for the last 30 years, I've investigated bank robbers and murderers, meaning.

[Dan Box]

Hans knows what he's talking about. And I don't read anything into the fact that he doesn't want to talk to me when I call him. It's 10 years since William Tyrrell was reported missing and almost 10 years since Hans himself retired from the New South Wales Police. When he was put in charge of the investigation into William's disappearance, Hans was only a few months off retirement. So he explains he's been out of the loop for almost a decade. Talking to Caroline a few years earlier, however, Hans still had some strong opinions.

[Hans Rupp]

Murderers don't murder strangers. It's a rare event.

[Dan Box]

Murderers don't typically murder strangers, he says.

[Hans Rupp]

People always kill someone they know, whether that's a loving relationship or a domestic relationship or a business relationship that's gone bad. Something. There's something to tie the offender to the. The victim.

[Dan Box]

The detective's job is usually finding out that thing tying offender to victim. Except William's case was different.

[Hans Rupp]

That's not your belief about. Absolutely. It's got. This has got nothing to do with the TR case at all. Your feeling was always that it was the stranger. Absolutely. There was a stranger involved. I don't think any member of the family involved at all, no.

[Dan Box]

So Hans is certain it was a stranger who took William and his family were not involved at all. Early decisions are critical in long police investigations. Even though Hans worked on William's case for only a few months, he still had a massive impact on the years that followed.

[Hans Rupp]

You retired, didn't you, after. Yes, four months on that case. So you weren't able to see it through.

[Dan Box]

Do you think if you had, would we have a result?

[Hans Rupp]

That's impossible for me to say. I don't know. But I know when I left it, I think it was in good hands.

[Dan Box]

Hans says he's happy with the way he left the William Tyrrell investigation.

[Hans Rupp]

Look, I don't. I don't dwell on the ones that got away, but look, I'm happy with what I've achieved and that's pretty good. And now this is a different stage of my life.

[Dan Box]

But not everyone agrees the investigation was in a good place when Hans left it. You're about to hear from the detective who took it over, the homicide squad commander who oversaw this transition, and the man at the very center of the police investigation who describes it as a poisoned chalice. I'm Dan box and from news.com au this is witness William Tyrrell. Episode 7 Malicious prosecution.

[Bill Spedding]

Hello. Testing, 1, 2, 3. What did you have for breakfast? That's a good question to start with. Coffee.

[Dan Box]

Bill Spedding describes himself as not the kind of man to draw attention to himself. He hopes people see him as a pretty straightforward guy, an ordinary grandfather. At home, he and his wife Margaret drive an ordinary maroon colored Ford Fairline, which they call Myrtle. But really nothing about the Spedding's life has been ordinary over the past 10 years. I might just wait for Peter just to come in. Yeah, of course.

[Bill Spedding]

Just ignore me.

[Dan Box]

I would sign the quiet. Which is why we're meeting not at Bill's home, but in the offices of his lawyer in Sydney. Because within months of William's disappearance, Bill would become front page news right across the country. And his lawyer is now sitting listening to this interview with Bill and Margaret. Just thinking back to before William went missing, what was life like for you then? Was it happy? Was it going well?

[Hans Rupp]

Yeah.

[Bill Spedding]

Oh yeah, well, it Was good at the time. Yes, business was doing well, successful in the community. The kids are in the footy teams in their weekend sport. We had soccer on Saturdays, in AFL on Sundays. A medal. Marvelous group of parents of the other children in the teams while they had.

[Dan Box]

Good friends where they were living. The Speddings family history is complicated. Bill and Margaret have each been married before with kids from previous relationships and there had been falling outs within their families, some more bitter than others.

[Bill Spedding]

Yes, I think we were.

[Dan Box]

What were you looking forward to then?

[Bill Spedding]

Well, just retiring down that area.

[Dan Box]

That area was the mid north coast of New South Wales. The Speddings lived in Bonny Hills, a village about 20 minutes drive from where William was reported missing. Bill worked as a white goods repairman, installing air conditioners, fixing fridges. Three days before William's disappearance, he was called to look at the washing machine in a house on a dead end road called Benaroon Drive.

[Bill Spedding]

And I just called in there and had to go back later on to finish the job off. Our first knowledge of the disappearance was by the news newscast that evening of the 6:00 news. And it didn't mean anything to us other than the fact that a child had disappeared in the local community. And the name didn't mean anything to me because the name of Tyrrell was not my customer's name. So nothing fell into place, nothing twigged.

[Dan Box]

Bill would later write a book about what happened, although it's never been published. I've got a copy. The book says Bill had ordered the parts to fix the washing machine and was waiting for them to be delivered when he got a call from the house. On the morning William was reported missing. Bill didn't pick up when he saw the missed call. He called back, no answer. But there were other phone calls between Bill and the house both that day and later.

[Bill Spedding]

And I was quite surprised to be told by the police because they rang me and said that I was not to mention or disclose that William had disappeared from the house. And I said, well how am I supposed to know that when he wasn't there when I was there?

[Dan Box]

Four months later, January 2015, Bill and Margaret were sitting on their back veranda when the police arrived to search his house.

[Bill Spedding]

The search of our house wasn't a surprise at all, no surprise because I knew they were doing searches and around the area and when they turned up we weren't unduly surprised. I thought, oh well you know, fair enough, they're investigating the disappearance, so come on in guys, you know, do your thing. And we'll get out of your way.

[Dan Box]

But the media found out about it.

[Hans Rupp]

Police arrived at their Bonny hills home at 7:30 on Tuesday morning. They spent 48 hours excavating the backyard and emptying a septic tank. Morning, Sean. What's the latest on that? We have fresh pictures that are coming to you now as we go to air. So this is the latest development. It's believed this semi rural property is linked to another property that was raided yesterday here in Lauratin where we are a flat where items were taken. I know they took computers out, they took a mattress out and they took a ton of stuff out. Actually, they filled the back of a. Detectives have sent away three cars, mobile phones, a mattress and computer equipment for forensic testing.

[Dan Box]

Those raids and the media reporting would change everything in Bill's life.

[Bill Spedding]

I didn't realize that things were so intense except when during the first recorded police interview. And the questioning was relentless.

[Dan Box]

I believe you went to that address at Bennerin Drive, Kendall on 12th September 2014.

[Bill Spedding]

I never went near there.

[Dan Box]

This is a recording of Bill Spedding's police interview. You were there to fix that washing machine.

[Bill Spedding]

No.

[Dan Box]

Perhaps you didn't make it to the house. Cause as we know, William Tyrrell was wandering around the front yard of his.

[Hans Rupp]

Grandmother'S house on his own.

[Dan Box]

He had no supervision by any parent at that time for a few minutes.

[Hans Rupp]

We know that.

[Dan Box]

Okay. We believe you were there.

[Bill Spedding]

I wasn't there. And the police were really getting upset with me because they were asking questions which I had no knowledge of the content and asking what happened to certain phone calls. And I said all that. I got no idea.

[Dan Box]

I'm telling you in your official records you got a phone call at 9:03am.

[Hans Rupp]

But it isn't here.

[Dan Box]

Is there anything you can tell me about that?

[Bill Spedding]

No.

[Dan Box]

What this indicates to us said that specific phone call you received, you deleted from that phone.

[Bill Spedding]

You can't delete it.

[Hans Rupp]

You deleted that number, you can't delete.

[Dan Box]

That incoming call so that when police extracted your phone they wouldn't find it.

[Hans Rupp]

In the extraction of the phone. Why is that phone call?

[Bill Spedding]

I don't.

[Dan Box]

Not in your incoming calls. On 12 September 2014 at 9:03am?

[Bill Spedding]

I don't know.

[Dan Box]

Did you delete that phone call?

[Bill Spedding]

No. As far as I know you can't delete.

[Dan Box]

Did you delete that phone call from your telephone number?

[Bill Spedding]

No.

[Hans Rupp]

From your mobile telephone to show the.

[Dan Box]

Police that that phone call did not.

[Hans Rupp]

Occur for whatever reason?

[Bill Spedding]

I don't know. I didn't delete anything.

[Dan Box]

In his book, Bill says that was the call about fixing the washing machine at the house where William was staying. He says it didn't show up in his phone records because he used the automated answer phone Service. Bill pressed 101 to listen to the message, then pressed 22 to redial the number. So it wasn't like a normal phone call, but it went beyond asking you certain questions.

[Bill Spedding]

They did? Yes.

[Dan Box]

They said to you, we believe that you may have grabbed William we believe that you may have grabbed William from that front address, from the front yard of that address, may have left the area without anyone knowing.

[Bill Spedding]

Hmm. I'm sorry, I wasn't there.

[Dan Box]

Did you take William Tyrrell?

[Bill Spedding]

No, I just sat there and I thought, what are you talking about? I wasn't there.

[Dan Box]

Were you frightened?

[Bill Spedding]

I was bewildered. Very much bewildered in the questioning.

[Dan Box]

And if Bill says he was bewildered by the questions asked in the recorded police interview, what the detectives asked him when they turned off the tape must have been even more confusing. There was one point when I think the police were driving you from your house to the police station on that day. And in the car they asked you if you knew any pedophiles.

[Bill Spedding]

Yes.

[Dan Box]

And you said, you know, I don't know the names. They're people you knew from the past, distant, related. And they said, what about Jeffrey, meaning Geoffrey Hillsley? Jeffrey Hillsley was Bill's former brother in law from a previous marriage. At that time, Jeffrey was serving a life sentence for raping a 10 year old girl and murdering her stepfather. But did you think at that point they were asking me about pedophiles? Did that start to. What did you think then?

[Bill Spedding]

I was very naive. I was totally overwhelmed, very naive about police questioning. And I hadn't done anything to feel guilty about. And so I'm thinking, well, they're just asking normal questions.

[Dan Box]

After you left the police station that day, you were interviewed for six hours.

[Bill Spedding]

Yes.

[Dan Box]

And you left the police station and as you left, you've given evidence saying that one of the detectives shouted at you. We know you did it. We're going to get you, I'm going to arrest you.

[Bill Spedding]

Yes, one detective did. And that was about William Tyrrell. Right.

[Dan Box]

Okay. So there's a lot to unpack here. At this point, all Bill knows is the police have turned up at his door, raided his house and later his business office. They've driven him away asking about pedophiles and spent six hours questioning him, including saying they believe he took William. But why are the police so focused on him?

[Hans Rupp]

Well, by this stage, the disappearance of William Tyrrell had saturated the press.

[Dan Box]

This is Bill Spedding's lawyer, Peter O'Brien, speaking in a separate interview.

[Hans Rupp]

It had permeated well into the community psyche. It worried parents, it worried anyone in our community who's right minded and thinking of the welfare of this poor child who'd gone missing in such mysterious circumstances. And the police response was naturally and correctly to do whatever they could. The problem, I think, in some respects, with the approach that they took, is that they focused too heavily on Bill Spedding once they had what was probably a distorted piece of fabricated information on an anonymous tip.

[Dan Box]

That anonymous tip was made within days of William Tyrrell being reported missing. According to police records, the cops received at least one call claiming Bill has a history of alleged involvement in some really awful offenses. I'm not going to say what those alleged offences are because here's the thing about them. They'd already been thrown out in court decades earlier when a judge said the person making these allegations against Bill was, quote, obsessive, compulsive and bizarre. It's all tied up in that complicated family history and the falling outs I mentioned at the start of the episode. The judge said this person's evidence, quote, contained inconsistencies which were so numerous that I cannot now take the time to refer to them. He also said this person programmed and tutored others to make allegations against Bill, allegations the judge said he was reasonably satisfied were not true. Which is a problem, because if the police were following that anonymous tip, they should have known this. And if they didn't know it before they raided Bill's house, they certainly should have done so after, because a copy of the court records containing the judge's damning demolition of the case was seized during the police raid on Bill's office. Looking back at it now, how much damage do you think that has done to Bill and the people he was living with at the time?

[Hans Rupp]

Well, an incalculable amount of damage. But what it seems to have done in this case is put him at the centre, and entirely by coincidence, for.

[Dan Box]

The fact that he was a washing.

[Hans Rupp]

Machine repairman going about his ordinary daily work, that it's brought him to the centre of the disappearance of a child that's raised the entirety of Australia's concerns.

[Dan Box]

That, however, isn't even the worst of it. To my mind, the worst thing is that the police raids on Bill's house and business, which put his face on the TV and the front page of the papers, were launched before the cops properly checked Bill's alibi for the morning William was reported missing, meaning no one confirmed if Bill actually was where he said he was. In this statement he gave Detectives On.

[Bill Spedding]

Friday 12th September 2014, I dropped the boys to the bus stop and went back home.

[Dan Box]

That was in the early morning before school. The last known photograph of William Tyrrell was taken at 9:37am at 9:44 Bill's bank records show he bought coffees for him and Margaret at a cafe in Lauriton, a town a short drive from where William was staying.

[Bill Spedding]

Hunger and I went to the school assembly at Laura and Public School. This would be about 10am and finished at about 12.30pm I spoke with some of the parents that were there and also spoke to the principal and one of the teachers.

[Dan Box]

After the school assembly, Bill says he went to his office which is located at Bowl Street.

[Bill Spedding]

Lord. So I finished up at the office cycle, pick up the kids from school at 3:30. I had no dealings with the female foster carer's mother family on that day. In fact I had no contact with them from the night till the 15th of September 2014.

[Dan Box]

If Bill's alibi checked out, it was physically pretty much impossible for him to be involved in what happened to William.

[Bill Spedding]

I also had my written diary which they had photographed or photocopied and in it was quite. I had appointments written and I had appointments which were moved around so that I could attend the assembly on 12th September.

[Dan Box]

Did you trust the police at that point?

[Hans Rupp]

I did at first because a little boy went missing and I knew they had to look for this little fella.

[Dan Box]

Do you trust them now? No. You say that with a smile. I'm guessing you weren't always smiling about it. Do you trust them?

[Bill Spedding]

Don't I trust them? I had not. Well, not one way or the other. I was just confused as to their what they were up to.

[Dan Box]

Bill wasn't the only person wondering what the police were up to. At this point, it's worth saying these decisions, who to target and how in major cases don't get decided by any one detective. They're reported up and signed off by senior police commanders. But the detective running the investigation into William's disappearance was Hands rup.

[Hans Rupp]

Well, I think that someone grabbed him off the, bundled him into a car and he just disappeared.

[Dan Box]

And at least one person inside the police force was starting to question what Hans was doing. That person was another detective. Introduce yourself. Tell me who you are.

[Hans Rupp]

Gary Jublin, retired detective, now working in the media.

[Dan Box]

But who were you before you retired?

[Hans Rupp]

I was a police officer for 34 years, specialising as a homicide detective. That was my passion, that was my.

[Dan Box]

Drive at the time. Hans is planning the raid on Bill Spedding. He's only a few weeks off retirement. Gary is due to take the case over. When he hears about the planned raid, Gary tries to stop it.

[Hans Rupp]

I had concerns before I took it over because the whole focus of the investigation at that stage was on Bill Spedding. They were going to execute a search warrant on his place and once the search warrant's executed, he would know that we were looking at him. I spoke to senior police and said, could we put a hold on that and stop that occurring? And I suppose I'm overstepping the mark to a degree because I wasn't in charge of the job at that time. I was put in my place, firmly put in my place and told, don't you worry about it now, when you take it over, you can then run it the way you want to run it.

[Dan Box]

So you tried to stop the search warrant being executed?

[Hans Rupp]

Yes.

[Dan Box]

Why?

[Hans Rupp]

Because I didn't believe all the stuff that needed to be done. I wanted to approach it a little bit differently, not so overtly. I wanted to approach it more covertly. Once you've executed a search warrant, you've put your hand up and said basically, we think you're the suspect for it. I didn't want to go down that path.

[Dan Box]

Gary called up his boss, the homicide squad commander.

[Hans Rupp]

I said, can we phone Mick Willing who was at home on annual leave? He was the boss and I explained it to him and I was basically told words to the effect of jubs, just wait till you take it over, let Hands retire in peace. And so I just stepped aside and they did the search warrant on Bill Spennning's place.

[Dan Box]

It's not just Gary Jublin saying this. His version is backed up by the person he spoke to, Michael Willing. And you were the homicide commander at the time William Tyrrell went missing? That's right. Do you remember that happening?

[Hans Rupp]

I do.

[Dan Box]

How would you describe Hans?

[Hans Rupp]

Hans, you know, old school homicide squad.

[Dan Box]

Detective Hands had an abrupt but really effective style, to be honest, you know, but he was, he was determined and, you know, he worked up until the.

[Hans Rupp]

Last day that he had in the.

[Dan Box]

Detective'S office at the homicide squad. He was working his backside off, you know. You said he was a hard working detective.

[Hans Rupp]

Yep.

[Dan Box]

Was he a good detective? How was his management? He was a very respected detective, certainly.

[Hans Rupp]

Respected across the police force, respected within the homicide squad, respected by his team.

[Dan Box]

Decision was made under Hans her up to raid Bill's home and his office. Were you aware at that point whether or not Bill's alibi had been checked?

[Hans Rupp]

I wasn't personally aware.

[Dan Box]

I was being advised as the homicide squad commander by Hands in terms of.

[Hans Rupp]

What he thought he was working on.

[Dan Box]

Did Gary ask you not to do it? I recall Gary in the last days before Hands retired.

[Hans Rupp]

I think I was on leave and.

[Dan Box]

Gary wanted to jump in and take it straight away. Did you tell Gary to leave it, to let the raids go ahead and to let Hands retire in peace?

[Hans Rupp]

Yes.

[Dan Box]

Did the right decision looking back? Oh, I don't know. You know, at the end of the day too, Hands was an extremely experienced investigator and I had no doubt or no reason to question anything that he was doing. But Gary Jubalin kept asking questions.

[Hans Rupp]

There was no investigation plan on this investigation when you took it over?

[Dan Box]

There was no.

[Hans Rupp]

No investigation plan. Now, I say that with, yeah, a certain tone because I'm, I'm so surprised that I consider it was the state's highest profile investigation, if not the country's most high profile investigation.

[Dan Box]

An investigation plan is a written document that essentially says how we are going to conduct this investigation, how, how we're.

[Hans Rupp]

Going to conduct the investigation, the direction, the strategies, the, the approach to the investigation. It's like a framework for an investigation.

[Dan Box]

Do you remember seeing an investigation plan that Hans drill up like? I can't specifically recall it, but that's part and parcel of, of any investigation State grind. You would have expected to be one?

[Hans Rupp]

I would have expected there to be one.

[Dan Box]

What were you told by your commander when you were given this job?

[Hans Rupp]

My commander, Mick Willing, Detective Superintendent at the time, he told me that it's a bit of a cluster.

[Dan Box]

Meaning.

[Hans Rupp]

Meaning that I needed to sort it out. When I took it over, did you.

[Dan Box]

Say to him words to the effect, this investigation's a mess, I need you to come in and sort it out? Look, that's been raised in various actual proceedings. To be honest, I can't recall saying that to him.

[Hans Rupp]

I did have concerns about the investigation.

[Dan Box]

I can't recall saying those words. Police documents from that time show Gary recorded written concerns about the previous running of the investigation into William's disappearance, which seemed to have shifted its attention away from and back to Bill Spedding over time, possibly to the detriment of other lines of inquiry. Gary wrote. But Bill's name was out there and it was everywhere in TV bulletins and news reports. Given what had happened, the police records show Gary decided to focus on Bill with, quote, as many resources as are available to gather evidence of his involvement or exclude him from involvement. Can I ask you how you feel about Gary Jublin now?

[Bill Spedding]

Well, I only know him as a very aggressive policeman. I don't know him personally. And I think he was handed a poison chalice, that he was handed something that was going to cause him a lot of grief.

[Hans Rupp]

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[Dan Box]

The podcast Faith on Trial looks.

[Hans Rupp]

Into Hillsong, both in Australia and the US and takes both the listener and hosts on unexpected twists and turns in the story of Brian Houston and the singing preachers. There are two incidents involving Pastor Brian. The Australian journalists uncovered a litany of.

[Dan Box]

Alleged criminal behavior in the megachurch.

[Hans Rupp]

Financial gifts were being given to the leaders of the church. Listen to Faith on Trial Hillsong ad.

[Dan Box]

Free on Crimex plus on Apple Podcasts today or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember on the day you were arrested?

[Bill Spedding]

Yes.

[Dan Box]

When? In the morning outside your house, there was a line of cars around the corner which was full of media. Yes. I was in one of those cars. This was April 2015, a few months after Gary Jubalin took over the investigation into William's disappearance. I was a reporter covering the case for a newspaper.

[Bill Spedding]

The thing was that I said to Margaret early morning, there's something up because there's media everywhere.

[Dan Box]

Were you apprehensive at that point?

[Bill Spedding]

I knew something was up, but I had nothing to feel guilty about. If I'd been a criminal, I'd be out there panicking. But I wasn't a criminal. Right. And the thing is that if the media's out there, why are they out there? Oh, well, it's another day. Media out there.

[Dan Box]

It wasn't just some media out there. All the media were out there. A line of cars and TV trucks down the road and round the corner. And I was in them. I found out Bill Spedding was going to be arrested before it happened from another journalist. Everyone seemed to know it was coming. I tried to get Gary Jubalin to confirm it but he wouldn't. Sometime in the mid morning Bill left the house and drove off. We all panicked. Do you remember when I think you left and went into Port Macquarie?

[Bill Spedding]

Yes.

[Dan Box]

Do you remember what happened?

[Bill Spedding]

Yes. It was absolute chaos.

[Dan Box]

It was chaos. We followed Bill in a convoy. None of us knew where he was going or why the police hadn't turned up yet to arrest him. But all of us were desperate not to miss the next big break in the William Tyrrell investigation. And I think at one point you sped up to try and get away from us and we were overtaking cars, we may have jumped lights. The Sydney Morning Herald nearly crashed into my car and I remember feeling at the time this was basically harassment.

[Bill Spedding]

It was, it was, I think you.

[Dan Box]

Got out of the car in Port Macquarie and reporters jumped out of cars and surrounded you and then I think you got straight back into the car.

[Bill Spedding]

I thought to myself, well I'll just get back in the car and go home.

[Dan Box]

What was it like driving along the road with a convoy of reporters following you?

[Bill Spedding]

What can I do to now to piss them off?

[Dan Box]

At one point you almost lost us. I think you went over a roundabout and then a car came round and cut us off. But then we sped up so we were breaking speed limits to catch up.

[Bill Spedding]

We were very bad boys.

[Dan Box]

Yeah, we were pretty bad that day. But arguably so was whoever in the police force tipped off the media that Bill was going to be arrested. That's not normal for a homicide investigation. Like I said, I heard it from another journalist and Gary Jubalin refused to confirm it. But in the years since he's been the person blamed publicly for this leak, including by the state government and more than one judge. All of that happened later when the decision to arrest Bill Spedding was torn apart in court. At this point I need to be open. Gary Jubalin and I go back a long way to before William being reported missing when I was a newspaper reporter covering other of his investigations, like the serial killing of three children in a town called Bowraville, not far from where William would disappear. Years later I left the paper. Gary and I co wrote a couple of books together which were basically his memoirs. After that I got another job working in podcasts, including overseeing one where Gary was the host. So he and I get on, we don't always agree and I've told him when I think he's done the wrong thing, including on this investigation, he doesn't always listen. But given he and I have this history together, the question is whether you think I can be fair and honest in the way I report on Gary in this podcast. All I can do is lay it out for you and let you be the judge. It was Gary Jubilin who turned up at Bill's house that day to arrest him, saying it was for historical offences.

[Hans Rupp]

When they took him away, I just lost it. I didn't know what I was doing. I locked myself in the house for days. I wasn't going to go outside because of the media and everything.

[Dan Box]

Did the media treat you fairly?

[Hans Rupp]

Yeah, they just were there. We couldn't move, we couldn't go anywhere. They were following us everywhere every day. And every morning we'd get up, they'd be at the front.

[Dan Box]

How bad did it get with the way people treated you after your name was made public?

[Bill Spedding]

We felt we were in a fish birdcage or a fish tank where everyone's staring in.

[Hans Rupp]

Yeah, like just coming down to court. You could see people being on the TV and the papers and you could see them staring.

[Dan Box]

This wasn't only local news. Bill's name and face were plastered across the country after he was arrested. I was in the media pack the next day for his first court appearance. Afterwards, outside the court, someone from the police gave all the journalists photocopies of a court document describing in graphic detail the offenses police were saying Bill committed. Did you know that was happening?

[Bill Spedding]

No, of course not.

[Dan Box]

In that court document were the same allegations that had come up already decades earlier and had been dismissed once before by a judge. And no, it wasn't Gary Jubalin handing out that document.

[Bill Spedding]

They were using that as a leverage or pressure or something to create inverter commas. A breakthrough.

[Dan Box]

The story exploded. What was the worst of it?

[Bill Spedding]

I was in the car with Mark and this fellow got out of the car in front and made the gun symbol at me.

[Hans Rupp]

And what about the pathology?

[Bill Spedding]

Oh, yeah, I was escorted out of the pathologist. Yes.

[Dan Box]

You were asked to leave?

[Bill Spedding]

Oh, yes, yes.

[Hans Rupp]

As soon as you read. He read his name, Bill Spedding.

[Bill Spedding]

They asked me to leave him.

[Hans Rupp]

To leave.

[Dan Box]

How did your business go?

[Bill Spedding]

It went. It went gone. Dropped to nothing almost overnight.

[Dan Box]

So your business is gone.

[Bill Spedding]

Gone.

[Dan Box]

Which means your income's gone.

[Bill Spedding]

Yes.

[Dan Box]

I mean, what does that do to you in terms of.

[Bill Spedding]

Well, financially, we're screwed.

[Dan Box]

After a few months, Bill got bail, meaning he was released from prison. While waiting for trial to take place, things got so bad he and Margaret moved house. But his Name was now tied up in the public imagination with William's disappearance. I really would appreciate if you were.

[Hans Rupp]

Never out the front of the children around.

[Bill Spedding]

I've got a couple orna codes.

[Hans Rupp]

You will not do it if you see children.

[Dan Box]

A neighbor told Bill she didn't want him outside with her children.

[Hans Rupp]

I just would like to know that you would never have a mobile out here in case you're grooming my children. If you're viewing any of my children or their friends. And I don't want the lines open while they're playing out the front because I just don't want you around when there's so many children here.

[Dan Box]

Somehow, strangers got hold of Bill's phone number. He got death threats. Bill reported these threats to the police, but nothing happened. One day, walking down the road, a man asked if he was Bill Spedding. Bill said yes, and the man lurched towards him, grabbing Bill's throat. Bill reported this to the police as well. He doesn't know if anyone got charged.

[Hans Rupp]

I don't know. It's just been. Just been a lot on us. The kids are still feeling it as much as what we did.

[Dan Box]

Bill's wife, Margaret, says the worst impact was on the kids because they were.

[Hans Rupp]

Happy when they were with us. We hadn't. They were really good. But after, they just sort of went downhill.

[Dan Box]

Bill was prevented from seeing the kids after the first police raid. After being arrested, his bail condition stopped him from seeing any children.

[Hans Rupp]

They weren't happy.

[Dan Box]

Before William went missing, those kids who were living with you, were they doing well?

[Hans Rupp]

Very well. They were done well at school. The teachers just loved them and loved the work we were doing with them.

[Dan Box]

And did it then have an impact on them as well?

[Hans Rupp]

It did, big time, yes.

[Bill Spedding]

A terrible impact.

[Dan Box]

In what way?

[Bill Spedding]

Well, they were pulled out from a stable home to a completely unstable environment. They were severed from their friends, severed from their sporting activities, their family, which was us. And there was a lot of rebellion generated because of that.

[Dan Box]

So all that time between the original raid on your house and the end of the trial, which I think was about three years, you couldn't talk to them?

[Bill Spedding]

Well, I was prohibited from contacting anyone under 18.

[Dan Box]

Has that had an impact on your.

[Bill Spedding]

Relationship with them, with the children? Well, they were devastated.

[Hans Rupp]

Yeah. Well, they keep saying while they were with us, they'd never been so happy when they were living with us. And then when that got taken away, they went downhill.

[Dan Box]

So if you're counting up the number of lives damaged by the investigation into William Tyrrell's disappearance, you have to add these four kids as well. All that damage might be one thing if Bill was found guilty of the offenses he was charged with. But on 5th March 2018, three years after the first police raid on his house, Bill Spedding was found not guilty. Four years later, December 2022, he was awarded almost $2 million in compensation by the New South Wales Supreme Court, which found, quote, there was no reasonable or probable cause to institute or maintain the criminal prosecution against Mr. Spedding. And the material available supported an overwhelming inference that the allegations were concocted and false. The court directly criticised the police involved, saying, quote, the officers had material that must and certainly should have led them to doubt the viability of the case. Hey, Gary, can you hear me?

[Hans Rupp]

Yes, Dan.

[Dan Box]

I'm not in the country at the time of the court's decision, so I talked to Gary Jublin on a zoom call. You sound like you have got a lot on.

[Hans Rupp]

Yes.

[Dan Box]

Have you had time in all of that to read through the judgment in the Bill spedding matter?

[Hans Rupp]

Yeah, 87 pages. So I glanced through what I consider relevant. Yeah.

[Dan Box]

Gary Jublin oversaw the investigation into William Tyrrell's disappearance, but he wasn't the officer in charge of the prosecution of Bill Spedding over these separate offences. That was a Moore Jr. Detective who was part of Gary's strike force. And everything the strike force did was written up in progress reports, dozens of them, signed off by senior commanders. And the decision to charge Bill Spedding was assessed by other specialist detectives and the police force's own lawyers. But it's Gary's name that keeps coming up for criticism in the court's judgment.

[Hans Rupp]

It seems to be that the essence of the judge's decision is that I, and I say I because it does a lot seems to come back on me.

[Dan Box]

In essence, the court found Gary Strikeforce charged Bill Spedding with other unrelated offences, offences that had already been rejected decades earlier by another judge as a way of putting pressure on Bill to see if he or someone close to him would crack about. William.

[Hans Rupp]

I've been called into account for what junior officers are doing under my command. No one above me has been called into account what I was doing.

[Dan Box]

So there's a document the judge flags, which you wrote, called the strike force Roseanne proposed operational phase. But what bothers me about it is that describes the arrest of Bill Spedding as being phase five in a series of phases that are part of the investigation into what happened with William Tyrrell. So it very much looks in that document that you are arresting Bill Spedding on these unrelated offences as part of your investigation into what happened to William? Yeah, I mean in that document it absolutely looks like that's the case.

[Hans Rupp]

Okay. And to answer that, this is the chicken before the egg and I'm not making this offense up, these are serious offences. So yes, I'm going to use the fact that we've got prima facie case on the person that in the timing of it it is a phase. But that to me, and this is what, this is what really agrees me about this decision. I think that was some of the best police work I've done in my career. I had to, there were so many moving parts. But I'm using every available resource, technique and strategy I had available to me.

[Dan Box]

You can't do that though as a cop, can you? You can't charge someone with unrelated offences in order to pursue a different investigation.

[Hans Rupp]

Let me say this. If you're going to have to charge that person, do you think it's acceptable that if I charged Bill Speding, but I didn't have a conversation with him after that point in time about William Tyrrell, do you think I should have just charged him? Because this is where I think it comes down to.

[Dan Box]

Okay, yeah. I'm saying you can't do what you say you did. And you're saying I couldn't have done the alternative. I would have been wrong not to charge him and not ask him about William.

[Hans Rupp]

I could imagine being in the coroner's court with the family looking at this investigation and being asked, so you were looking for the person responsible for abducting a three year old child? Yes. And there was a person of interest that you were looking at? Yes. And you didn't think it was worthwhile speaking to him about the abduction case?

[Dan Box]

Like unsurprisingly, Bill Spedding's lawyer feels differently about this.

[Hans Rupp]

That suggestion by Gary Jubilin that the matters were distinct, that he was going to bring bear on charges that were already open for him to charge is has been made a nonsense of. Now I don't understand that. If police officers have somewhat that they suspect for one thing and they have reasonable probable cause to charge them with another thing, they might well bring those charges in order to put pressure. But that wasn't this case. This was a case where the charges have been demonstrated to have been palpably false and should never have been laid.

[Dan Box]

And that is what the court found. Reading through the judgment you can see the alleged victims accounts of what happened change. A crucial eyewitness refuses to cooperate with the police for months and when he finally does, his evidence is that the offences didn't happen.

[Hans Rupp]

The case fell away. The case fell away as long as it went. But there was also a failure to disclose by police.

[Dan Box]

The different problems with the case are not all included in police documents, including those provided to the prosecution lawyers.

[Hans Rupp]

The failure to disclose demonstrated further, the court found the malice that had initially swept them up.

[Dan Box]

Although the person described in the court judgment as having failed to disclose this information isn't Gary Jublin. Gary was in overall command. Okay, Just to put some of the things you are alleged to have done to you and these are things you alleged to have done directly rather than as a supervisor. The judge says that you or someone working for you leaked to the media that Bill Spedding was going to be arrested.

[Hans Rupp]

Yeah. Now both you and I know that is a joke.

[Dan Box]

Well, look, I know you didn't leak to me because I was trying to get you to tell me and you wouldn't tell me.

[Hans Rupp]

Yeah. When I found out that the media were there, I said someone from above has leaked this. So you're saying.

[Dan Box]

You're saying it was leaked by somebody above you?

[Hans Rupp]

Y.

[Dan Box]

So Bill Spedding says at one point when you came to arrest him, he was actually on the phone to his solicitor and he said this to you and you said, I don't care what fucking cunt you have on the phone, I can't believe you're using that language.

[Hans Rupp]

I probably would round the pub when I'm arresting someone and doing police work that wouldn't be used.

[Dan Box]

Bill Spedding's draft book describes the moment when he was arrested by Gary, but doesn't mention Gary using this language, which is something that was claimed later in court. Nor does Bill's book describe something else said in court that Gary threatened bill saying, Mr. Nice washing machine Man, I am going to ruin you. I can see you saying, Mr. Nice Washing Machine Repairman.

[Hans Rupp]

I can't recall saying that. I can't just. But I put it in the context of a conversation. I am trying to find a three year old boy that could possibly be alive. So it wasn't an inappropriate conversation, but it wasn't a comfortable conversation. And I think that's the way what.

[Dan Box]

You'Re saying you didn't say is the bit that is a threat. I am going to ruin you.

[Hans Rupp]

I can't make any threat, promise or inducement.

[Dan Box]

Who said what is really a relatively minor issue. The fact is the court found Bill Spedding should not have been prosecuted in the first place and that once he had been that prosecution should never have continued and that the result did ruin Bill's life. Bill's own book wasn't read out in the Supreme Court, but our book was the one Gary and I wrote together. In it, we described how Gary wrestled with this decision about charging Bill Spedding. We wrote, quote, I'm about to pull the trigger on a guy's life, get it wrong, and I'd destroy him. The judge found Jubalin knew if he got it wrong, it would destroy Mr. Spedding. The public linking of his name to the William Tyrrell investigation was one thing. Jubalin knew exactly what he was doing. If he got it wrong, it would destroy him. And it did destroy him. Looking back, I think that book we wrote together hurt Gary because it was honest. In time, the Supreme Court's verdict would be upheld by the Appeal Court, which described the pursuit of Bill Spedding as the worst case of malicious prosecution in the history of New South Wales.

[Hans Rupp]

It is, in fact, the highest award of damages in the country for a malicious prosecution. And in those circumstances, well, the judges got it right.

[Dan Box]

That's Bill Spedding's lawyer, Peter O'Brien. Gary himself is unrepentant. Last question. Given what you now know and the damage Bill Spedding says he suffered, do you feel sorry for Bill Speding?

[Hans Rupp]

I don't want people. If people do listen to this, I don't want them to misinterpret that. We've got to accept the ruling of the court, but me personally, no, I don't.

[Dan Box]

But that's not the end of the story. After Bill was arrested and before he was found not guilty, he spent time in Cessnock Jail, a few hours south of Kendall, where William went missing. Bill's cellmate was a man called Tony Jones. And in jail, you were put in a cell with a guy called Tony Jones, who used to be a neighbor of Bill's from years before.

[Bill Spedding]

And I hadn't seen or heard of him since, and I didn't recognize him. He had a beard, put on weight.

[Dan Box]

Tony was serving time for child sex offenses.

[Bill Spedding]

I said to him, watch what you say. We're probably being recorded.

[Dan Box]

Their conversations were recorded. It was another of Gary Jubilin's operations. Tony Jones had been given a script to work to and a bunch of false documents claiming to show police had new technology that allowed them to track where somebody had been years earlier using their mobile phone. So the police were listening to the conversation when Bill said, well, that means they'll be able to tell I wasn't anywhere near the house on the morning William went missing. It's there in the internal police records from the time Gary Jubalin updates the investigation plan to say that he accepts, on the balance of probabilities, Bill Spedding was not involved in William's disappearance and the police now needed to refocus the investigation on someone else. In his unpublished book, Bill lays out different theories of what might have happened to William and concludes, this case has all the hallmarks of a targeted abduction. So we've ended up in the same place. This episode started with the first detective who oversaw the raid on Bill's home, Hands Rupp, who also says it was an abduction.

[Hans Rupp]

It was the only logical explanation. He didn't wander off. We know he didn't wander off. So what else could there be? What was your feeling? Well, I think that someone grabbed him off the street, bundled him into a car and he just disappeared, which is really, really sad.

[Dan Box]

How much have you lost over the course of this process?

[Bill Spedding]

10 years.

[Dan Box]

What's your overwhelming emotion?

[Bill Spedding]

I'm tired, very tired. I've just got the whole lot to go away, Margaret.

[Hans Rupp]

Well, I'm glad it's over.

[Dan Box]

Is it over?

[Hans Rupp]

Well, isn't it?

[Bill Spedding]

We don't know.

[Dan Box]

You once said that. You said that there should be a parliamentary inquiry into the way the investigation of William's disappearance has been conducted.

[Bill Spedding]

I think so. I think the myth this should be.

[Dan Box]

Do you know the one other person who also thinks there should be a parliamentary inquiry into this investigation is Gary Jubilant?

[Bill Spedding]

Um, I think so, because he was allowed to do what he was, what he did. So it goes up to the higher police hierarchy that he was submitting his plan of action to his superiors and at no point was that plan of action questioned. So maybe there should be, you know, inquiry into that.

[Dan Box]

So it goes up to the senior police.

[Bill Spedding]

Yes.

[Dan Box]

Bill Spedding is an old man and has spent several years in different courtrooms since William was reported missing in the appeal Court last year. I noticed he now wears a hearing aid and sat often with his eyes closed, his head nodding forward as the court chewed over his malicious prosecution. But what struck me, listening to the details of how Bill was put under pressure by the media, by the public, put under surveillance, charged with other offences and had his old neighbour sent in undercover, wasn't that this was a straightforward mistaken police investigation, but rather this was a playbook, a set of tactics that the police would use again and again in the William Tyrrell investigation. Because even while Bill Spedding was still awaiting trial, the lead Detective Gary Jubilen had moved on, had refocused and was working on another potential suspect. You once told me that when you're working a homicide investigation, you'll go in like a bulldozer and people will get hurt.

[Hans Rupp]

Yep.

[Dan Box]

What did you mean by that?

[Hans Rupp]

The very nature of homicide investigation. If people think you can tippy toe around the homicide investigation, you're living in la la land. Homicide investigation is about finding out what's happened. I'm not talking about breaking rules here or going too far. I'm talking about you've got to go after a person, you've got to hunt that person, find that person and gather the evidence. And to do that, you're going to hurt people.

[Dan Box]

That's next time on Witness. William Tyrrell. A lot of different people have been involved in making this series. Among them, the executive producer is Nina Young. The sound design was by Tiffany dimack. The producers have been Emily Pidgeon, Nicholas Adams Jasbar, Phoebe Zukowski Wallace and Tabby Wilson. Research by Aidan Patrick. Original Music by Rory O'Connor. Our lawyer is Stephen Coombs. The editor at news.com au is Kerry Warren. I'm Dan Box.

[Hans Rupp]

Cocaine is a global industry where the.

[Dan Box]

Profits are counted up in millions and.

[Hans Rupp]

The losses measured out in murders because.

[Dan Box]

It'S only business and right now business is good.

[Hans Rupp]

And I'm like, torture seller.

[Dan Box]

What are you talking about?

[Hans Rupp]

I don't think we can arrest our way out of this.

[Dan Box]

Listen to Cocaine Inc. Wherever you get your podcasts or visit cocaineinc.com au are you ready to get an inside look at crime from someone who has investigated some of Australia's worst crimes?

[Hans Rupp]

It was like Aladdin's cave.

[Bill Spedding]

The luminal found bloodied footprints and bloodied.

[Hans Rupp]

Handprints on a wall. So it's just like a horror movie.

[Dan Box]

Former homicide detective Gary Jubilant sits down.

[Hans Rupp]

With cops, crims, addicts, victims, small time.

[Dan Box]

Cheats and big town lawyers as they tell their incredible stories. My house got raided.

[Hans Rupp]

Next thing you know, I got bail refused. Next thing you know, I'm on a truck to Park Lee prison. Listen to I catch killers early and.

[Dan Box]

Ad free on Crymax plus on Apple podcasts today or wherever you get your podcasts.