The Bird Tree |12

Summary

Witness: William Tyrrell – Episode 12: The Bird Tree

Podcast Information:

• Title: Witness: William Tyrrell
• Host/Author: news.com.au
• Description:
  Witness is the home of investigative podcasts for news.com.au. This season delves into the mysterious disappearance of William Tyrrell, a three-year-old who vanished from his family home in Kendall, New South Wales, ten years ago. Despite ongoing investigations, key questions remain unanswered, particularly concerning William's foster mother and a potential suspect, Frank Abbott.

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Introduction

In Episode 12, titled "The Bird Tree," the investigative team from news.com.au revisits the haunting case of William Tyrrell, a three-year-old boy who disappeared from his family home in Kendall on September 12, 2014. A decade later, the mystery remains unsolved, with lingering suspicions surrounding William's foster mother and a man named Frank Abbott, who is considered a potential suspect.

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Revisiting Frank Abbott’s Connection

The episode kicks off with Dan and Nina returning to the Mid North Coast of New South Wales to shed light on Frank Abbott’s possible involvement in William Tyrrell’s disappearance.

Dan [00:09]: "We still got questions. And the questions are about one of the people who was held up at the inquest into William's disappearance as a suspect, potential suspect, and his name's Frank Abbott."

Frank Abbott, a long-time resident of the Mid North Coast since the late '80s or '90s, has been under scrutiny due to his peculiar fixation on William's disappearance. Despite no direct evidence linking him to the crime, Frank persistently inserts himself into the investigation narrative.

Nina [00:44]: "Frank Abbott is a man that has been around the Mid north coast since the late 80s or 90s. He's lived in both Johns River and Herons Creek, both of which are near Kendal, where William went missing."

Frank’s behavior raises red flags, particularly his claims about knowing more than he reveals:

Dan [01:41]: "And there was evidence that he actually bragged in front of children that he killed William and disposed of William, I think under their house."

Despite these alarming statements, no concrete evidence has surfaced to substantiate Frank's claims. His interactions with law enforcement add layers to the mystery:

Nina [02:07]: "Frank keeps talking about it and inserting him into the investigation. So he even contacted the police while he was in prison for child sex abuse in 2018."

Notably, Frank has connections to other persons of interest in the case, such as Tony Jones and Jeff Owens, a tradesman linked to the house where William disappeared. Nonetheless, these connections remain circumstantial.

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Community Insights and Local Interviews

The investigative team delves into the town of John's River, a small community where Frank Abbott once resided. Through interviews with locals like Patrick Teeling, who owns the local store, and Jeff Owen, the tradesman connected to the house, a portrait of Frank emerges—complex and shadowed by rumors.

Patrick [06:03]: "When you put all of this together, what you've got is that so far, neither the police nor nor the coroner seem to have any real answers about what happened to William."

Visitors to Frank's old residence describe it as a place laden with old, discarded items, hinting at possible hidden secrets.

Frank [23:10]: "I think we've done about 13 loads of rubbish from the backyard. Washing machines over in this corner... steel bathtubs... old and dusty inside."

Jeff Owen, a key figure interviewed in John's River, recounts unsettling interactions with Frank:

Jeff [19:46]: "He used to look over the fence and stuff when my ex was out in the garden. I caught him... he came out with a machete."

These testimonies, while not directly implicating Frank in William Tyrrell's disappearance, paint a picture of a man with a troubled past and questionable behavior.

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The Bird Tree Theory

A pivotal moment in the episode centers around the Bird Tree, a massive blackbutt tree near Big Bird Mountain, adjacent to Bennaroon Drive—the same area where William was last seen. The significance of the Bird Tree becomes intertwined with Frank Abbott’s history and his brother Bluey's revelations.

Patrick [31:40]: "Bluey's dead, so he can't tell us if he really said that. Later we ask Frank about this in writing, in a letter we send to him in prison. But we haven't heard back because he..."

Frank's mobile phone reportedly pinged from the Middle Brother cell tower on the morning William disappeared, situating him within the vast Kendal area. While this does not conclusively link him to the crime, it keeps him within the sphere of interest.

Patrick [33:14]: "The morning after William is reported missing, at 9:22am, Frank Abbott's mobile phone pings off the Middle Brother cell tower... Frank is likely somewhere in that area."

The episode introduces enigmatic claims from Bluey, Frank’s brother, who allegedly suggested Frank's involvement in William's disappearance shortly before his own death. These claims lack verification and exist purely as hearsay within the community.

Bluey [35:07]: "He did too. He's buried up on Big Bird Mountain."

The association between the Bird Tree and William’s disappearance remains speculative, fueling local legends and conspiracy theories without providing tangible evidence.

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Family Dynamics and Hidden Truths

Further exploration into Frank Abbott's family unveils a tumultuous history marked by abuse and unresolved tensions. Nina and Patrick uncover that Frank’s father, Henry Abbott, was a known child abuser, adding a disturbing layer to Frank’s background.

Patrick [08:23]: "We've read the death certificates of Frank's wife, Katrina, who died in 1991 of liver failure. Anne of Frank's two-year-old son Darren, who died in 1984 and whose inquest file has been sealed..."

Moreover, William's foster parents, who were previously convicted of assaulting and intimidating another child, have had their convictions overturned upon appeal. This development adds complexity to the investigation, questioning the reliability of previous testimonies.

Dan [16:23]: "The police did charge William's foster mother and foster father with assaulting and intimidating another child who wasn't William. But in the months since the last episode of this series, William's foster father has appealed his conviction for intimidation and had it overturned."

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Confrontation and Local Resistance

As Nina and Patrick persist in their investigation, they encounter resistance from locals wary of delving into Frank Abbott’s past and the town’s best-kept secrets. Attempts to interview Frank's neighbors yield mixed responses, with some expressing fear and distrust.

Patrick [17:23]: "What had he done? Just to record this man used to... he didn't want to be named."

In one significant interaction, a local warns them to stay away from Frank Abbott, illustrating the lingering fear and apprehension surrounding his legacy.

Patrick [16:26]: "We knocked on his house half an hour ago and I left a message on his phone."

The community’s reluctance to fully engage with the investigation underscores the deep-seated trauma and uncertainty that William's disappearance has left behind.

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Closing Thoughts and Ongoing Mysteries

As the episode draws to a close, Nina and Patrick remain entangled in a web of half-truths, hearsay, and unverified claims. The Bird Tree saga, tied to familial confessions and local folklore, leaves the mystery of William Tyrrell's disappearance shrouded in ambiguity.

Patrick [43:07]: "Fate did do it. That's the words I heard from my son, what Bluey told him they did do it and he's buried up there on his bird somewhere."

The episode concludes without definitive answers, highlighting the enduring pain and unresolved questions that continue to haunt those connected to William Tyrrell's case.

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Conclusion

Episode 12, "The Bird Tree," adeptly navigates the murky waters of suspicion, community whispers, and fragmented truths surrounding William Tyrrell's disappearance. While Frank Abbott remains a figure of intense scrutiny, the lack of concrete evidence and the complex dynamics within his family and community leave the case unresolved. The Bird Tree serves as a symbolic reminder of the elusive nature of truth in this tragic narrative, compelling listeners to ponder the depths of mystery that still envelop William Tyrrell's fate.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dan [00:09]: "We still got questions. And the questions are about one of the people who was held up at the inquest into William's disappearance as a suspect, potential suspect, and his name's Frank Abbott."

• Nina [02:07]: "Inserting him into the investigation. So he even contacted the police while he was in prison for child sex abuse in 2018."

• Patrick [17:23]: "What had he done? Just to record this man used to..."

• Bluey [35:07]: "He did too. He's buried up on Big Bird Mountain."

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Production Credits:

• Executive Producer: Nina Young
• Sound Design: Tiffany Dimac
• Producers: Emily Pidgeon, Nicholas Adams, Jasbar, Phoebe Zukowski Wallace, and Tabby Wilson
• Research: Aidan Patrick
• Original Music: Rory O'Connor
• Lawyer: Stephen Coombs
• Editor: Kerry Warren
• Hosts: Dan Bo and Patrick Teeling

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Note: The episode continues to unravel the complexities of the William Tyrrell case, promising further revelations and investigative depth in subsequent episodes.

Transcript

[Dan]

So we're driving back up to the Mid north coast in New South Wales, which is where William Tyrwell went missing. I didn't think we'd be coming back, but we still got questions. And the questions are about one of the people who was held up at the inquest into William's disappearance as a suspect, potential suspect, and his name's Frank Abbott. What do we know about Frank Abbott?

[Nina]

So Frank Abbott is a man that has been around the Mid north coast since the late 80s or 90s.

[Frank]

Yeah.

[Nina]

He's lived in both Johns river and.

[Dan]

Herons Creek, both of which are near Kendal, where William went missing.

[Nina]

And there's no clear connection between him.

[Dan]

And William except that he keeps talking about it. Yeah, and that's the thing that stands out is Frank keeps talking about William's disappearance. There's people who give evidence at the inquest and say that Frank used to bring it up. He used to say that other people must have been involved in what happened to William or he would talk about an area of the bush where he said he could smell a body or he knew what the smell of.

[Patrick]

Of death was.

[Nina]

Yeah. And you have a difference between a dead kangaroo and a dead body. Yeah.

[Dan]

And there was evidence that he actually bragged in front of children that he killed William and disposed of William, I think under their house.

[Nina]

Yeah. In a port. In a suitcase.

[Dan]

In a suitcase. I mean, look, it wasn't true. There's no evidence, actual direct evidence that Frank was involved in what happened to William. But Frank keeps talking about it and.

[Nina]

Inserting him into the investigation. So he even contacted the police while he was in prison for child sex abuse in 2018. He contacts the police and he asks to speak to a local detective and he tells him, you know, I saw Tony Jones somewhere with a child, or, you know, he tells them things that there's no evidence of, but he's inserting himself into that investigation.

[Dan]

And you're right, he demands to speak to someone who's on the William Tyrrell strike force. And he knows people, so he knows Tony Jones, who's another convicted paedophile and another person of interest in the William Tyrrell investigation. And again, no evidence that Tony was involved in what happened to William. But the police are looking at him. And Frank knows Jeff Owens, a tradesman who does work on the house where William goes missing and is on the phone to the house that day. So there's this connection between Frank and the house where William goes missing, but there's no evidence that puts Frank at the house.

[Nina]

Yeah. And. And yet as you go through all the evidence heard at the inquest, Frank just keeps popping up throughout it in these strange ways, like he's like, well.

[Dan]

Then there's Ray Porter.

[Nina]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So Ray Porter is this guy who is really elderly, he's in a care home and he's dying. And his nurse gives evidence that Ray says before he dies that he gave his mate a lift with a boy driving north away from Kendal, further north in New South Wales. And the nurse says, is that the boy? Is that William Tyrrell? And apparently Ray says, yes. And there's the white car. So William's foster mother says there's a white station wagon parked outside the house on the day that William goes missing. Nobody else has seen it, but she insists there was FR is seen driving a white station wagon in Kendal on different days. So there's all of these reasons to look at Frank and say, we should probably talk to you, as in the police should talk to him. And he's at the inquest, he's allowed to be in the hearings and he, he joins them from prison where he's serving time for child sexual abuse. But he calls in on a video link and he's allowed to question witness.

[Nina]

Yeah. And we established earlier in the series that he in fact gets all the evidence from the inquest.

[Dan]

Yeah. And this I was speaking to a former detective about exactly this just a couple of days ago and telling him about what happened. And this detective was horrified that the inquest had sent Frank, well, parts of, if not the complete brief of evidence while Frank is preparing himself to give evidence at the inquest. So he knows what everyone is saying, he's allowed to question witnesses who are saying things about him and everyone is waiting for Frank to be called to answer questions at the inquest and then he doesn't. He's not questioned in person, he's not questioned in private. And then the inquest stops and we don't know why. So there's all these questions and we still don't have answers. So we decided it was time to drive back up to the Mid north coast and to try and find some.

[Nina]

Answers to those questions or find out if the police have tried to find some answers to those questions.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Foreign box and from news.comau this is Witness William Tyrell Episode 12 the Bird Tree.

[Dan]

And here we are.

[Patrick]

Where we are is a little town called John's River. It's just off the Pacific highway on the Mid north coast of New South.

[Dan]

Wales, which is where Frank moved back in the 90s. But then he stayed for years.

[Patrick]

John's river is about a 10, maybe 12 minute drive from Kendall where William Tyrrell was reported missing. And it's small. It's got one shot, one pub, a service station. The trees overhang a few old cars, some of them up on blocks or in pieces in the front yards of the single story weatherboard houses. Just a few hundred people live here.

[Dan]

It's barely a town.

[Nina]

I was gonna say you said we're driving in.

[Patrick]

We almost drove out.

[Dan]

Yeah, it's kind of a straggler. Houses on either side of the road and looks like it's in better days. Hey. But people here knew Frank because he lived here, he worked here. Frankly, in a place this big, you can't get away with not knowing your neighbours. So we're going to try talking to people and find out anything we can about Frank Abbott.

[Patrick]

When I say find out anything we can about Frank Abbott, I mean it. Since the last episode of this series, Nina and I have gone deep on Frank, looking at court files and electoral rolls.

[Dan]

Hello.

[Patrick]

Following the different branches of Frank's family, where he's one of 11 brothers and sisters.

[Dan]

Hello.

[Patrick]

We've traced phone numbers and property records to see where Frank's family lived over decades. From western Sydney north to Wootton, a hilltop town surrounded by cattle farms and forest. And further north to the city of Taree, which sit in a loop in the wide Manning River. And here to John's River.

[Dan]

Pretty sure there's somebody at home. TV's on.

[Patrick]

Then herons Creek, a tiny township built around a sawmill and a rail line, where the police searched after William went missing.

[Dan]

Sorry to bother you and turn up out of nowhere.

[Patrick]

We followed Frank to Logan's Crossing where he lived in a caravan belonging to a man called Jeff Owen, a tradesman who called the house where William was reported missing on that morning.

[Dan]

My name's Dan. This is Nina.

[Patrick]

And north again into Queensland, where Frank's family are now scattered.

[Dan]

We've been trying to get in touch with a Julie Abbott.

[Nina]

A who?

[Patrick]

Julie Abbott.

[Nina]

No, she don't live here.

[Patrick]

We've read the death certificates of Frank's wife, Katrina, who died in 1991 of liver failure. Anne of Frank's two year old son Darren, who died in 1984 and whose inquest file has been sealed, meaning it cannot be made public. We've also seen Frank's parents marriage certificate which showed they married at 19 and lists his dad's job as a labourer and his mum's as domestic duties. And We've read the police witness statement and the old court reports that say Frank's dad, Henry Abbott, was a child abuser. We've gone through old tv, radio and newspaper reports about Frank that show how he's been in and out of prison over decades.

[Nina]

Do you think Frank Abbott was involved in the disappearance?

[Patrick]

That I cannot answer. Including one time when he broke out of prison, stole a car and drove across the country to his sisters.

[Nina]

Do you think he's capable?

[Patrick]

Well, he scares me.

[Bluey]

He still scared me in that damn stand.

[Patrick]

So that's what I really want to say. Over the decades, Frank's done time for smaller crimes, including drugs break and enters, car thefts. And he's now doing time for big crimes, specifically child sex abuse, including four counts of indecently assaulting a child under 16 and six counts of having sex with a child under 10 against three victims, two girls and a boy, for which he's currently serving 16 years in long Bay Prison in Sydney's east, where one of our colleagues recently saw Frank Abbott sitting and laying out the playing cards for a game of solitaire. Among everything we've learned about Frank Abbott are new details about the circumstances of William's disappearance, including that Frank told one person he'd never even been to the streets where three year old William was reported missing. But he told someone else he'd been among the hundreds of people who volunteered to search that area in the days that followed.

[Dan]

So we're at the pub now, yeah, where people have told us Frank was living in a couple of white sheds out the back of the property.

[Patrick]

I've just been speaking to the guy.

[Dan]

Who owns it and he said, he.

[Patrick]

Said, look, Frank did rent some white.

[Dan]

Sheds down here further on the property. He said he didn't think Frank was living in them, but he did bar Frank from the pub. He said Frank stank and he was aggressive and he just didn't want him in there.

[Patrick]

Frank denies having anything to do with William Tyrell's disappearance. He's claimed to other people that a bank withdrawal proves he was somewhere else that morning. And we can't speak to Frank because he's in prison, though we have written to him and we've spoken to his sister, Elaine Harding, who didn't want to be recorded, but told us that Frank was innocent and that he'd been willing to give evidence at the inquest into William's disappearance. Which is strange because everyone expected Frank to be called to answer questions, including both William's biological and foster parents. Only Frank never did. So he Wasn't called to give evidence in public and not in private. And the coroner, who's leading the inquest into William's disappearance has ordered there be no publication of her decision. Why not? We asked the coroner's court to explain why Frank has not given evidence. We were told an answer might take weeks, as they are, quote, currently occupied with other work. We're still waiting.

[Nina]

Okay. Dan's walking up to the house. Keeps coming and peering at the. Through the curtain.

[Patrick]

In this case, getting answers isn't easy.

[Dan]

All right, so that guy didn't want to be recorded.

[Nina]

And then we haven't talked about the woman that I contacted through Facebook. Right.

[Patrick]

Since the last episode of this series. The coroners also confirmed there won't be any more evidence heard in public. Instead, the coroner wants to see written submissions from the various lawyers, which also won't be made public and aren't due for months from now, meaning it will likely be months more before the coroner publishes her findings.

[Nina]

I asked her how she knew Frank.

[Patrick]

The coroner has released a short statement saying it is to be understood that the New South Wales Police Force investigation into the disappearance and suspected death of William Tyrrell may continue.

[Nina]

Her reply was. Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. I wasn't sure I was ready to talk about this. Frank sexually assaulted me as a teenager when I was living in Taree.

[Patrick]

We asked the New South Wales Director of Public Prosecutions what's happening with a brief of evidence submitted by the police seeking to charge Williams foster mother.

[Nina]

And she said he was never charged for it. My parents knew about it.

[Patrick]

That brief of evidence was submitted almost two years ago now, and there's still been no decision as to whether to actually charge her. The DPP did not respond to our questions.

[Dan]

So that was a call from a guy called Patrick Teeling.

[Nina]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And we knocked on his house half an hour ago and I left a message on his phone.

[Patrick]

The police did charge William's foster mother and foster father with assaulting and intimidating another child who wasn't William.

[Dan]

He was the guy who ran the store in John's river, which is where Frank Abbott was living.

[Patrick]

And William's foster parents were convicted. But in the months since the last episode of this series, William's foster father has appealed his conviction for intimidation and had it overturned.

[Dan]

And a guy from Tari's in the store delivering bread. And he pulls Patrick aside and says, stay away from that guy. That's Frank Abbott.

[Patrick]

And William's foster mothers also appealed her convictions and is waiting on a Decision.

[Dan]

I know him from Tari.

[Patrick]

Warn your kids.

[Dan]

Don't let your kids go near him.

[Patrick]

And when you put all of this together, what you've got is that so far, neither the police nor. Nor the coroner seem to have any real answers about what happened to William.

[Dan]

And so from then on, Patrick the storekeeper is keeping an eye on Frank Abbott. And he doesn't like what he sees.

[Patrick]

Which is why Nina and I have come here to the town of John's river to ask questions. Bringing us back to Frank Abbott.

[Dan]

He said over and again and again and again he'd notice outside the store, Frank Abbott talking to women or women and children and just getting too close. He said he used to at night, sometimes he'd be awake and he'd see Frank backing out of his property with his lights off, getting down the road. And then the lights would turn on and he said Frank was out and he was stealing stuff.

[Frank]

Stuff.

[Dan]

And the local people would say, in John's river, if you're missing something, go and look at Frank's house. He says, I'm just reading my notes. I made shorthand notes of the conversation. He says, he's just one of those guys. He didn't have any scruples. And he said he was worried about him.

[Patrick]

And then.

[Dan]

Patrick said of Frank, you wouldn't feed him. He said, jail's too good for him.

[Bluey]

Wow.

[Patrick]

So why did his old neighbours say jail's too good for Frank Abbott? What had he done? Just to record this.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Bluey]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Dan]

So we're recording this man used to.

[Patrick]

Live next door to Frank. He doesn't want to be named. We're sitting on the front porch of his home in John's river. The main road behind us. And the bodies of old cars seemingly scattered, almost half forgotten in the surrounding forest.

[Dan]

Tell me about Frank.

[Jeff]

Well, when I first met him, we sort of got on for a while.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And then I heard stories about some girl in Sydney.

[Dan]

Did you hear those stories from him or from other people now?

[Jeff]

The people in the paper too? I. Yeah, yeah, he sort of kept to himself. But me ex misses used to get out and do the garden. He used to look over the fence and stuff when.

[Dan]

So when she was out in the garden?

[Jeff]

Yeah, when it was hot. She was in a bikini out the back like. We had a fence, but he used to look over.

[Dan]

So you could see him, like peering over?

[Jeff]

Yeah, I caught him.

[Dan]

What did you do?

[Jeff]

Oh, I was going to flog him, but I didn't cuz he got. He came out of a Machete.

[Dan]

What?

[Jeff]

A machete.

[Dan]

So you got into a blue with him?

[Jeff]

I didn't fight him. No, but you were just that hard.

[Dan]

And then he went back in and came out with a machete?

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And this is your next door neighbor. How did you get on after that?

[Jeff]

Not really.

[Dan]

Before you kind of. He pulled a machete on you. Did you ever talk to him about anything at all? Did you get on with him much?

[Jeff]

Yeah, I used to talk to him. And he was all right.

[Dan]

Tell me about what he was like.

[Jeff]

Oh, he was just. He was pretty dirty. It wasn't that clean.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And the house was pretty feral.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Had chalks living in it.

[Dan]

Yeah. Chickens living in his house?

[Jeff]

Yeah. We used to go to the tips and at night and break into the tip.

[Dan]

So we used to go and steal stuff at night and break into the.

[Jeff]

Tip, come back and tip. Cut a hole in the fence and.

[Dan]

Bring it back here.

[Jeff]

Yeah, but none of me kids were allowed over there.

[Dan]

Why not?

[Jeff]

Just the way he was. Just the stories. What stories was that? He was a pedophile.

[Dan]

Has the police ever spoken to you?

[Jeff]

Yeah. About detectives.

[Dan]

About Frank?

[Bluey]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

On the phone.

[Dan]

What were they saying?

[Jeff]

They just asked me about him. Same thing I'm telling you.

[Elaine]

Same thing.

[Dan]

Yeah. And then they came back after that. Okay.

[Patrick]

The police who spoke to Frank's old neighbor were detectives from the strike force investigating the disappearance of William Tyrrell. But they only called him. He says they never visited in person. Sitting on his front porch, I look next door at Frank Abbott's old house. Someone new lives there now since Frank moved out. And there are more cars on the front lawn, a little boat, a tinny up on a trailer, and what looks like a black stone gargoyle of some kind of winged mythical creature beside the screen door. I look over at all of that and I think, all right, it's worth a visit.

[Dan]

Let's have another knock. Because we had chatted to him before.

[Patrick]

The screen door shut, but the main door behind it is open, and I can see it's dark inside the house. Although it's late the morning, almost midday. I'm pretty sure we wake the owner up.

[Dan]

My name's Dan. I'm sorry to bother you on a Sunday morning.

[Patrick]

The man comes to the doorway, scratching himself and shirtless, wearing only shorts. And he's big, muscular. He's got tattoos across his body, but he's friendly.

[Dan]

How long did you know him for?

[Frank]

Not long. So we board this place.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

The man invites us in.

[Dan]

How long you been here for?

[Patrick]

He says he's lived here since 2010, four years before William was reported missing. We sit down in a lounge room dominated by a long black sofa and a big noisy fish tank inside. The man starts talking about how they took over the house from Frank Abbott.

[Frank]

I think we've done about 13 loads. 13 loads of rubbish from the backyard.

[Patrick]

What kind of rubbish?

[Frank]

I mean, everything. There's washing machines over in this corner.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Elaine]

There's.

[Frank]

I don't know, steel bathtubs over in that corner.

[Dan]

Scrap metal and bits. Things you could sell maybe.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Frank]

I don't know about selling them, but yeah. And that's why, even now, like, you go out there, you could dig the dirt.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Frank]

And you'll still find shit in the dirt like that. It was that thick.

[Dan]

What was it like inside the house?

[Frank]

Very dark and gloomy. Like the bathroom was basically rotted out sort of thing.

[Dan]

It was rotten in the bathroom?

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Frank]

Like, you know, the walls inside the floor and that. It was very, like, old. And it was one of these houses where you could have, you know, was 50.

[Elaine]

50.

[Frank]

You could push it down and start building again or you could start renovating.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Frank]

So we chose to renovate it.

[Dan]

And was it clean?

[Frank]

It was very old and dusty inside. And then stuff that was inside, it was like, you can say antique furniture, but he got it from out the front of someone's house or whatever. Like it wasn't proper, you know what I mean?

[Dan]

So it was old furniture? Yeah, not so much antique as old and had been thrown away.

[Elaine]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

Tell me about Frank himself.

[Patrick]

What was he like?

[Frank]

Talk to him and that, like straight up. I just assume it's another old boat, you know, A bit. A bit funny in his ways. But then once you've heard the stories and stuff, like from people around town and even from his. His brother. Brother named Bluey. That was his nickname, Bluey. Even he had nothing nice to say about him.

[Dan]

What stories did you hear about Frank?

[Frank]

Well, I heard about. I don't know, like, who it was at the time, but it was young girls and young boys. Something about. He took them out to the forest out here, this one here. And I tied him up to trees.

[Dan]

What?

[Frank]

Yeah, tied them up, the trees and did. I can't. I'm not going to sit here and. And make up something that I don't know. I'm just saying tied them up the trees and did something bad out there.

[Dan]

Did you hear anything else?

[Frank]

Yeah, well, Frank was basically creeped around any. Any girl, he would be onto him.

[Patrick]

One story this man tells us we hear more than once in John's river from other people who knew Frank. But I'm not going to repeat it, not because we don't think that story's true but because we fear it might be. And I don't want to identify the people involved.

[Frank]

Doesn't really have any hate or anything towards him because as I said they're all stories, you know, he's always wandering around town and. And making out he was going to get a lift to help out someone or like cleaning or something for people. Anyway that's as much as I knew him like hey, how you doing? Like and then he stopped in here once or twice, like even a couple times more. And my dad's giving him a lift like he was always hunting for a lift of shops or something. So that's as much as we knew of him like. Yeah, I mean just give him a lift, be nice, you know, don't.

[Patrick]

Be nice, don't with Frank Abbott and give him a lift if you see him. Soon after this mention of his dad giving Frank Abbott a lift, the man's father walks into the lounge room behind us here.

[Frank]

Used to be dad. He'll have fingers. Say hey mate, how you doing?

[Patrick]

I walk over and introduce myself.

[Dan]

My name's Dan, we're journalists. This is colleague of mine.

[Frank]

They're doing a. A story, a. A news thing on Frank Abbott.

[Bluey]

Oh, thank you boy.

[Frank]

Yes, you can sit down and have a chat in a minute, whatever. And I go cigarette and cuz my dad knew him just as much as I did.

[Patrick]

So we swap over. The first man goes outside to the front yard of the house to smoke a cigarette and we're left there sitting in the lounge room on the big black sofa talking to his father.

[Dan]

You knew Frank Abbott for how long?

[Bluey]

Since we moved up here. 2010.

[Dan]

How would you describe him?

[Bluey]

Dirty. I drove him down to Old Bar once and Frank would always bum a ride, put it on Judith offering my lift.

[Patrick]

He says. He gave Frank a lift to Oldbar which is another little town about a half hour drive south along the highway where the Manning river flows out between two long empty beaches to the ocean.

[Bluey]

He had a job there to do with cutting a woman's lawn. I dropped him at the house and I said Frank, how long? Because I want it to have a look around Old Bar as well myself. And he said oh, a couple of hours. I said well if you're going to be that long, I'll pick you up like. So I come back and picked him up and I was astounded what he said to me, he said this woman's got heaps of money in the house. And he didn't actually say it in words but he wanted me to come in with him to rob her. Not what a loud person he is. Like everything about him was shifted.

[Patrick]

There's no proof Frank was thinking of robbing that woman. But so far in John's River I've heard so many different stories about Frank and that this one doesn't surprise me.

[Dan]

Did you ever hear Frank say anything that he might have done worse than stealing?

[Patrick]

This time the answer does surprise me.

[Bluey]

Yeah, he's rather Bluey. A nice boat.

[Patrick]

Frank's brother Geoffrey, whose nickname was Bluey because he had orange hair. Apparently it's an Australian thing. Go figure. Anyway, Bluey, he died in 2020 quite.

[Bluey]

A few years back now. But he always said when the stories are going around with Terrell that he didn't do it and he didn't do it. And right pretty close to when he died, Louis said to my son, he said he did do it. He said, and he's buried up on Big Bird Mountain there where that big tree is. Big Bird, they got a. And yeah, I thought that was a turn around from Bluey saying that because he wanted to like his brother, but he didn't. You could see it in that he didn't like him.

[Patrick]

Wait, stop. As the older man is saying this, I'm trying to process what we're hearing. So the story goes, Bluey was Frank's brother. And apparently Bluey used to say Frank was not involved in William Tyrrell's disappearance. Except right up just before he died, Bluey said to this man's son Frank was involved.

[Bluey]

He did too.

[Patrick]

And Williams buried up on Big Bird Mountain.

[Bluey]

He's buried up on Big Bird Mountain.

[Patrick]

There where there's some kind of big.

[Bluey]

Tree where the big trees, Big Bird, they got a sign on there.

[Patrick]

Later we'll discover there's this big tree outside of John's river called the Bird Tree, which is this giant blackbutt tree. It's about 70 or so meters high and 11 metres around the trunk. And everyone who lives on the mid north coast apparently knows this tree. Other members of Frank Abbott's family will tell us they used to visit it as children. The Bird Tree stands on the slopes of Middle Brother, which is a mountain.

[Bluey]

Up on Big Bird Mountain there.

[Patrick]

But where my brain starts to do loops is when we learn that the Bird Tree is next to another giant black butt called Ben Aroon, which is the same name as the road where William Tyrrell was reported missing, Bennaroon Drive. And when I Google the bird tree, a state government website says you get there via Batar Creek Road, which is the road leading to Benaroon Drive. Most of that area is forest, a national park named after the Middle Brother mountain. And we learned that the morning after William is reported missing, at 9:22am, Frank Abbott's mobile phone pings off the Middle Brother cell tower, which is described in evidence before the inquest as covering the Kendal area. So the area around the town where William was reported missing. But that Kendal area, it's a huge chunk of land. Looking at a map, it must be dozens of square kilometers of mostly empty forest, farmland and dirt. So this mobile phone ping doesn't actually prove anything except that Frank is likely somewhere in that area. But right now, in this conversation with the old man inside what used to be Frank Abbott's house in the town of Johns River, I'm thinking, why bring this up? We haven't even asked you about William. I'm also thinking, none of this is evidence in court. A judge would dismiss it and call it hearsay. It's just a story told by one person who says they heard it from another. It proves nothing. And I'm not suggesting it's true, far from it. But sitting here listening to this man say what his son said that Bluey told him.

[Bluey]

Yeah, I thought that was a turn around from Bluey.

[Patrick]

I'm thinking we really need to talk to your son.

[Dan]

We might just go and ask your.

[Patrick]

Son about what you've just told us about Bluey.

[Bluey]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

The old man seems relaxed and jokes that we should remind his son to mow the lawn while we're out there.

[Bluey]

Tell him he's got to do the grass.

[Dan]

I will.

[Nina]

We're not getting back to work soon.

[Bluey]

I think he's just waiting for it to get too hot again.

[Patrick]

So we bundle up our recording kit and head out of the house when he says something. Only I'm distracted and miss it. And later, listening back, it's hard to hear because the microphone's bumping as we hurry out the front to where his son is smoking.

[Bluey]

He probably forgot about that. But I didn't forget about it.

[Patrick]

He probably forgot about that, but I didn't forget about it.

[Bluey]

The way he changed his version. Yeah, with his brother.

[Patrick]

The way he changed his version with his brother. Meaning Frank and his brother Bluey.

[Bluey]

No one ever checked that out. He must have told quite a few people that story.

[Patrick]

No one ever checked that out. And he must have told quite a few people that story. But Bluey's dead, so he can't tell us if he really said that. Later we ask Frank about this in writing, in a letter we send to him in prison. But we haven't heard back because he.

[Bluey]

Died right after that.

[Patrick]

Do you remember when he died, Bluey?

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Bluey]

Oh, it's got to be eight years now.

[Patrick]

So the best thing we can do right now is go outside to the front of the house where the old man's son is smoking next to the front porch and an unused lawnmower.

[Dan]

Hey, mate, your dad's got a message for you. Can you mow the lawn?

[Frank]

Yeah, just gotta finish mowing the lawn.

[Dan]

Hey, there was one thing he said, though, which I wanted to ask you about, and maybe it just slipped your mind. He said about Bluey.

[Patrick]

At this point, the wind outside the house starts blowing.

[Nina]

Sorry, just move slightly this way.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[Bluey]

Thanks.

[Nina]

Just to be.

[Patrick]

I can see Nina frowning. The wind makes it hard to record what someone's saying.

[Dan]

Do you want to go inside?

[Nina]

Yeah, sorry, sorry.

[Patrick]

We go inside the house and crowd together in the kitchen. There's a TV playing in the background.

[Dan]

Your dad was talking about Frank's brother Bluey. And he was also saying that you remember that little lad, William Tyrrell, went missing.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Flipping Kendall. He said afterwards, Bluey would always say Frank didn't do it because it was in the news that Frank had been looked at by the inquest.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Is that right?

[Patrick]

From memory?

[Frank]

I remember him saying that he doesn't.

[Elaine]

Like he didn't believe Frank had anything to do with it. But then at the same time he'd sit down, tell you, so I haven't got anything nice to say about him.

[Dan]

And then your dad said that before Bluey died, he came to. To you and he. He may have said something different.

[Frank]

No, I can't remember that.

[Dan]

Yeah, Bluey didn't say anything about. Maybe Frank could have done it.

[Frank]

Not that I.

[Elaine]

Not that I remember.

[Dan]

Or that William may have been buried up on. Is it Big Bird Hill?

[Frank]

No, no, no.

[Elaine]

Like Louie was always. Like, he was the only one that basically of his family, that he didn't.

[Frank]

Really have contact, but he used to.

[Elaine]

Hear the stuff that was going on because he was the first part of the family and there was no brother who lived in Queensland. So Bluey used to hear the stories of what's going on with Frank through his brother in Queensland.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Elaine]

And so just from them, stories that Blue used to hear, like he. He'd sometimes Pass on to us like this Blue, he'd be transferring, like, messenger, not messages, but just talk that's happening through what's happening at court. Yeah, he's getting charged with this and stuff like that. But I know he did say something like he didn't believe it, Frank was guilty. But he also said that I think it's under the belief that Frank needed the jail to, like, because what he's done in his past, it sort of makes up for it. You know what I mean?

[Dan]

Yeah. So he deserved to be in jail because of things he'd done in his past.

[Elaine]

Yeah. Yeah. So it's been a while, so I can't really.

[Dan]

Thanks for clearing that up for us, though.

[Elaine]

Yeah. No, you're good.

[Dan]

We'll get out your hair. Thank you.

[Nina]

Have a good one.

[Patrick]

Nina and I walk out of Frank's old house into the sun, thinking about this story of the bird tree. I'm convinced it's just that, a story. And even if Bluey really said that, which I doubt, then who's to say it wasn't Bluey himself who was involved and trying to shift attention to Frank, his brother? We get in our car and drive off outside John's river on the highway. We pass a turning with a road sign pointing to the bird tree, and we ignore it. We just keep on driving. Then, weeks later, Nina and I are back in John's river, still working on this podcast, and we pull up again outside Frank's old house. The older man is sitting outside on the front deck. I walk up and he says hello. The conversation goes straight back to Frank Abbott and his brother Bluey.

[Bluey]

He changed his mind the better.

[Dan]

Who's that?

[Patrick]

The old man waves me over to a metal gate beside the house.

[Dan]

That's Bluey's dog?

[Frank]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Behind it is a big old dog that reminds me of a bloodhound. And the old man says, that was Bluey's dog.

[Dan]

How did you end up with Bluey's dog?

[Bluey]

Got six dogs.

[Dan]

You got six dogs?

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Bluey]

Love dogs, love animals and make it.

[Dan]

So. Did you get Bluey's dog after Bluey.

[Bluey]

Died or day before he died? He had to get in the tar. He'd be close to the hospital.

[Dan]

Right.

[Patrick]

Walking back to the front veranda, the old man sits at the table and I pull up a toolbox to sit on with him.

[Dan]

I'll sit on this.

[Patrick]

I realize his memory isn't perfect. He sometimes loses track of what he's saying.

[Bluey]

I lost his train of thought.

[Patrick]

He trails off.

[Bluey]

I don't know what Was I just saying there?

[Dan]

You said you went down to the.

[Patrick]

Bowling, but on one thing he's insistent.

[Bluey]

Fate did do it. That's the words I heard from my son, what Bluey told him they did do it and he's buried up there on his bird somewhere.

[Dan]

When you say big bird, you mean the bird tree?

[Bluey]

Yeah, that mountain. Just. Yeah. If you go up the top of the mountain and you look down on top of here, it's beautiful. And that's the words. And I couldn't and get out of that because I still haven't found him.

[Dan]

When your son came and told you.

[Patrick]

About Bluey saying that about Frank, did.

[Dan]

You think, oh, we should do something with that? We should tell someone?

[Bluey]

Oh.

[Patrick]

He doesn't really answer.

[Bluey]

It sounded like Louie just gave up defending him or something like that. And that's. That's what I heard.

[Dan]

We asked your son about if Bluey.

[Patrick]

Said that to him and he said.

[Dan]

He couldn't remember.

[Bluey]

He would have said.

[Dan]

Oh.

[Bluey]

I remember like tight lipped or shut your mouth.

[Patrick]

I remember tight lipped or shut your mouth, he tells us. Then the old man's son arrives, driving onto the front lawn. He gets out angry, shirtless again, and walks across the grass towards us, shouting, saying he doesn't want to talk about Frank Abbott and waving at us to get away and get out. So we get out. We've been in John's river long enough, we reckon. And this time driving away again, we pass the sign for the bird tree and keep driving. It's probably nothing we'll tell the police. But I'm thinking about something the younger man, the son, told us when we spoke to him him the first time and asked him about whether Frank Abbott's brother Bluey told him something about William Tyrell. And his reply was, I don't remember.

[Elaine]

I know he did say something like he didn't believe that Frank was guilty.

[Patrick]

Bluey didn't believe that Frank was guilty of anything to do with William.

[Elaine]

But he also said that I think it's under the belief that Frank leave the jail to like what he's done in his past. That sort of makes up for it.

[Patrick]

But Bluey was under the belief Frank needed jail time to make up for what Frank had done in his past. Which makes me ask the question, what did Frank do? And that's when Nina and I start looking at the young woman who disappeared and where Frank was found not guilty.

[Bluey]

She was riding a push bike, I think it was, and yeah, and he picked her up and frozen, I think he said, he had a ute.

[Patrick]

And what did he say he did with the pushback?

[Bluey]

I. I think he just dump it.

[Dan]

So he picked her up with her.

[Patrick]

Bike, maybe put the bike in the back of the ute, apparently. And then did he tell you what happened next? That's next time on Witness. WILLIAM Tyrrell, A lot of different people have been involved in making this series. Among them, the executive producer is Nina Young. The sound design was by Tiffany Dimac. The producers have been Emily Pidgeon, Nicholas Adams, Jasbar, Phoebe Zukowski Wallace and Tabby Wilson. Research by Aidan Patrick. Original Music by Rory O' Connor. Our lawyer is Stephen Coombs. The editor at news.com au is Kerry Warren. I'm Dan Bo.