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Emma Shirjarko
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses. Monetary magicians. These are the things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Foreign welcome to the Wolf 359 reunion episode of Pairing. This is your Commander, Emma Shirjarko, welcoming you to this very special episode of Pairing podcast that I have been dreaming of for a long time since I started this show. Unsurprisingly, the most requested episode was one about Wolf 359, a little sci fi audio drama that came out a few years ago. I thought for a long time about how to do it and I decided that I wanted to include as many folks from the cast and crew as possible and I actually managed to get almost everyone involved in Wolf 359 into this episode. It was so much fun to record and I hope it will be just as fun to listen to. So thank you to Julian Silver, Ariella Rotengold, Noah Mazur, Michelle Agresti, Zach labresco, Scotty Shoemaker, Cecilia Lynn Jacobs, Mikayla Sui, Alan Rode, Sarah Shakat, Gabrielle Urbina, and most of all to Communications Officer Zach Valenti, who helped me immensely with editing this mammoth episode. You are going to hear from all these people about our experiences making this show and what we think our characters would drink. I may be biased, but I think you're gonna enjoy it. So I wanted to do this episode now for a few reasons. 1. If you're listening, on release day, it's Christmas 2021, four years to the day since the Wolf 359 finale was released. Wolf was and remains such an important piece of art for so many people and it certainly changed my life and career entirely. I'm so grateful for the years that I spent playing Commander Renee Minkowski and for the continued support of our amazing fans, many of whom are you pairing listeners who have supported me through the past almost four years of this little podcast. Which leads me to the second reason for releasing this episode now. It's a hard decision, but at 93 episodes I have decided that once we get to 100 episodes, I'm going to lay pairing down for a very long, possibly indefinite nap. I have loved, loved making this show over the past few years, but between my life going in new and exciting directions and me not feeling I can give pairing the attention and time it deserves, the time feels right to take a pause Now, I'm not saying pairing will be done forever, but we're going to take a pretty long break. There will still be plenty of places for you to find me on the Internet, and I'm really excited to share some of those with you throughout this episode. So so stay tuned. And we're not done yet. We have seven episodes left to share, including some that I am super excited about. I'll be talking more about the future of pairing and our Patreon and more here on the show and on our social media in the coming months. So stay tuned. Speaking of our patrons, thank you so much to each and every one of you, most notably to our producer level patrons and Emma Cohen, Rena Sarame, Zu Yorker, Rebecca Joy, Henrietta White, Rachel Berman, and Michael Beck, all of whom I would happily boss around on the Hephaestus. Now, given that I just announced that the show will be coming to an end fairly soon, that does not mean that the Patreon has ended and I still immensely appreciate the support I receive on there. So if you'd like to become a pairing patron over the next few months, come check us out@patreon.com pairingpodcast where you can get access to all sorts of extras. I'll be talking more about the future of the Patreon soon, but it is still live and kicking for the time being. You can also check out my personal patreon@patreon.com emmasherjarko okay, this is a pretty long episode and I know you're all dying to get started, but before we dive in, I just wanted to give you a quick heads up. We recorded this with 13 different people, everyone in different spaces. Some with microphones, some with phones, some with computers. As I mentioned, the one and only Zach Valenti helped me so much I cannot even tell you. With the facilitation of the recording process and then with cleaning up the audio so this episode sounds as good as it does. Thanks to him. I did my best also in editing everything together, but there were some challenges that, much like the crew of the Hephaestus, I I could not overcome. So please forgive me that occasionally this episode sounds a little more like we recorded it on the Hephaestus rather than in the amazing Jared Paul studio. By the way, shout out to Jared and James Schoen who were the audio engineers that recorded this whole show. To them I raise a glass of Balveny Scotch. Without further ado, here is episode 93 Wolf 3359 with the cast and crew of Wolf 359. Okay, so hi, it's me, Commander Shirjarko again. I promise we'll get started soon. I just wanted to let you know a little bit about how this episode is structured. So I organized a virtual Wolf 359 reunion with most of the cast and crew and much as I wanted to embrace chaos and just record with everyone all at once, cooler heads prevailed and we recorded by breaking up into groups. So in this first group you will hear from Julian Silver who played Victor Ryman, Scotty Shoemaker who played Marcus Cutter, and Zach Valenti who played Doug Ifill, and my personal favorite, Alexander Hilbert. Julian is an actor and writer for film and TV and you can also hear him in Unseen, the urban fantasy audio drama from our fearless leaders Gabrielle Urbina, Sarah Shakat and Zach Valenti. Scotty, who by the way wins the gold star for this episode for both being the best prepared and also coming the day after he got his booster shot. Scotty can also be heard in several audio dramas since Wolf, including the AM archives by friend of the show Lauren Shippen. Zach, you can find oh here and there the aforementioned unseen zero hours time bombs. But and you heard it here first, he is starting his first Wolf 350 Relisten today. That's December 25, 2021 at 3:59pm Eastern Standard Time on YouTube. The link to this is @wolf359fm relisten and that link is also in the show notes. I am definitely going to be following along so please join us. Also, you know how I said I was going to tell you some of the places where you can find me once pairing is paused? Well, here's the first. My dear friend and another amazing author Moira Catson has written an absolutely killer epic high fantasy novel called Asundered Throne and I am on deck to narrate the audiobook. I cannot tell you how excited I am about this and she is launching a Kickstarter soon to make sure that the book and the audiobook can happen. If you are interested in being notified and or contributing to the Kickstarter, the pre launch link is in the show notes or you can find it@moirakatzen.com if you sign up, which is free, you will get access to the first eight chapters of the book and I think that will get you as excited as I am. Okay, enough from me. Let's dive in. I am so excited to welcome to pairing for the first time for some of you. For the second or third time for some of you. This is what I'm calling the Wolf 359 team kinda evil genius. So welcome Scotty Shoemaker, Zach Valenti and Julian Silver. Hey, guys. How's it going? Hey. Hello. So good. But also bad. Yes, that is gonna be necessary that you give two answers to everything, Zach. One as Hilbert and one as Eiffel. Do I do this whole thing in a British accent? Yes. Yes. Also requisite. No, you don't have to. Well, actually, I want. Why don't we. Why don't we just start there? Because that was my. One of my questions, Julian. And maybe a question. Oh, yes. Let me just say, for those of you listening, in case you don't know, Julian Silver, who plays Ryman. Is it Victor Ryman? Yes, indeed it is Victor Ryman. So if it's okay, I'm just gonna start off right with you, Julian. Sure. How did you come up with the accent for Ryman? Well, I do accents all the time. Just in my daily life. Yeah. And so I try to. Anytime I get a part, I try to convince people to let me do an accent. And this time it just happened to work. Amazing. I was just like, all right, let me try it on. And I was like, all right. It's gonna be like Street London. Jason Statham. Yeah, Jason Statham. Like this guy probably watched a bunch of those movies. And even if he already had sort of that accent, he leaned even further into it. Yes, 100%, actually. I love that for Ryman. That, like, maybe that isn't his real accent. Like, maybe he has like a more like posh accent or something. But then he changed it because he's like, this is cooler. Yeah, well. And so Julian, you came in right at the end. End of the whole Wolf 359 experience. Yeah, they called me a bandwagon castmate. I just hopped on the train at the last minute. That's amazing. But. But I have to say, I mean, I'm. I'm biased because we'd worked together before, so I knew how amazing you were already, but it. It really felt like you came in and rounded out that last kind of epic, you know, finish to the season. You know, Zach, you and I, we started the show like pretty much usually just the two of us. And by the end, we had like 10 people in Jared's studio all recording at the same time. It was so awesome. It was so exciting. Such a crazy jump up from that little closet that we were sweating out those first episodes in. Was that Spaceman? That was the studio called Spaceman. That was the studio called Space In Guanis, Brooklyn. Yes. Yes. Oh, my God. Oh, good times. Good times. So, Julian, you have. This is something I'm gonna ask everybody and you probably have the. This might be the easiest for you to answer, but do you have a specific favorite memory from recording. From the recording process of Wolf 359. A favorite memory? Yeah. I mean, like you guys said, There were like 10 of us in that one studio and I feel like I got to come in on like a really smoothly running train. You know, I just hopped on board and be the bandwagon. Yeah, I got like a first class ticket. Everyone was there at the party. Amazing. It was like I flew into New York. I got to. It was just an absolute dream because I was so set up for success. It was just like massive talent around. The infrastructure was already there. So that day in New York was better than the ones remotely. Weirdly, you know, people around. That was kind of fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's something. That's something I think Mikayla can probably speak to also because she recorded remotely for most of the process. But then we got her in for a few episodes in I think season three and then. And then for the like last, last stretch at the end of season four. Okay, last question for you for now, Julian. What do you think Ryman drinks? Like, what's his drink of choice? Wine wise? It doesn't have to be wine necessarily. I came up with my wine ideas, but I also want to hear all of your ideas. Well, listen, I think he went to Scotland and just went ham on scotch. Like, oh, he was just like, oh my God. I. I know all of them now. But if he's going to go wine, he's going either real heavy red, like Bordeaux. Yeah, he doesn't fuck around with Pinos. Like. No, no, he doesn't fuck around with soft blancs. So it's why he and Jacoby butt heads. Yeah, yeah. So it's really the meatiest of the reds, I think. Yeah, I was going to say that for wine, for Ryman. I was thinking that he's a tempranillo drinker. So like Rio has. Love it because, like he has to be just like slightly cool, you know, like, like he can't go as mainstream as Bordeaux. You're right. You're absolutely right. Rioja is, has got all the spice to it. Yeah. I love the idea of a South American. Yes, yes. Actually. Yeah, I bet. I was also thinking that Mezcal would be. Would be a drink that he would appreciate. Absolutely. Yeah. It's just Gotta be a little dirty. You know what I mean? Exactly. Exactly. I like to say mezcal is the scotch of tequila. Is the scotch of tequila. Absolutely. Exactly. Well chosen. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I am a professional. Scotty. Oh, my gosh. Hi. So good to see you. I know. It's amazing. I know. This is so fun. I just kind of want to, like, catch up with everybody, but we have an agenda. Okay, let's see. So I've got it. I've got. I know, right? All business. So, Scotty, no less commander. Yeah, yeah. I'm plugging in that Minkowski, which, you know, I feel like I have some things in common with Minkowski, but. But our discipline is a little different. So, Scotty, what I was gonna ask you is. Okay, you're probably. I would say my perception. You are the cast member of Wolf359 who is most different from your character, but you play evil geniuses so well, and I was gonna ask, did you have any other roles before this that you kind of, like, had done this before? Was this your first villain? Hmm. Oh, well, okay. Well, first off, I want to start off by saying that actually, yesterday I got my booster shot, and I feel like absolute garbage right now, which is amazing. Which is hilarious. But I'm good. Thank you so much. I'm here. I didn't even tell you that before we started recording. No, no, no. It's amazing. Everybody get your booster shot. If Scotty can do it and still be here. This is one day kind of bad, but it's beautiful. And now on to your question. I love it. Well, so, yes, I've actually played a number of evil characters. I think people really like to cast me that way because I have, I guess, such a nice general demeanor. I'm kind of like a smiley friendly person. And so when you make someone like that say. Yeah, right. Crazy. When you make someone like that say or do evil things, it's very, very unsettling. So it kind of just works. Like, I could just be myself, but say these lines that are awful, and it's, like, really unsettling. But obviously, in. In college, I was in Gabriel Urbina's senior thesis movie. That's right. That's right. Where I also was a little bit of a psychopath. It was a musical where I end up kidnapping a bunch of people in a cafe. I tie up Noah at one point and. And I forced them to sing a musical or play a musical where I am the star of the musical. Oh, my God, I love it. I want to See that? I still have never seen it. I've heard about this, but I need to see it. Okay, we'll have to send you the link. Yeah, please do. Please do. We should we. Next cast reunion, we'll have a viewing. Okay. Amazing. I think you're totally right. For those of you who don't know Scotty, he is like the nicest person ever. So it is very unsettling when he is so scary and evil, but it works. It really works. And it was so fun. You were one of the first cast members because we knew that cece was coming on, but I don't think we'd started recording with her yet at the beginning of season two. And so you were really the first new castmate, new member of this kind of story that I got to work with. And I just remember it was like, it was so fun having you come on. Do you remember you. Did you record remotely for those first couple episodes? I think you did. I think I did. I did record remotely. Do you remember how many cast members there were when I first joined? Was it just. I think it was just the three of us. I think it was just me, Zach and Mikayla. And Mikayla. Yeah. And who? And Alan on keys. Yes, and Alan on keys. Of course. The greatest. I mean, honestly, I mean, I'm gonna say this to Alan when we talk to him, but can we all just like, cheers to Alan for his every damn best. Cheers to Alan's most. To Alan. I'm not gonna tell him about this. And then he'll be so embarrassed when he. Oh, that'll be beautiful. Yeah, that'll be beautiful. It will. It will. But yeah, to answer your question and to sort of piggyback on the question you asked Julian. Yeah, yeah, that was my next question. Yeah, yeah, perfect. Yeah. So I did record remotely for a lot of it. Cause I was living in San Francisco at the time. I live in LA now. I was in San Francisco at the time and had a hilarious recording studio which is literally like underneath it was the closet under the stairs. And so perfect. And I was like. I couldn't quite. Yeah, he'd kick Harry Potter out. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I had to kick him out or he had already left for school, so it was okay. I actually have one of those in my house. I'm actually currently. This is a walk in closet that I've sort of rigged to be a little more like a studio, but we do have a coat closet under the stairs, and so I've thought about using that instead. That's amazing. It Was a little more cramped, but yes. Anyway. Yeah. So I would record in there, and I couldn't quite fully stand in it. I would have to tilt my head because the ceiling was tilted. So sometimes. A lot of the times I record sitting down, and that was fine. But if. Sometimes you really want that energy of standing, especially if you're, like, doing an intense scene. So there were times when I did raise the mic up and I was standing with my head at a tilt and, like, kind of getting emotional, like, getting intense into the. Into the microphone. And then also. But I'd have to stop every time someone went upstairs or went downstairs. Oh, no. Because it's like, clump, clump, clump. Because it's literally the closet under the stairs. I live with roommates, of course, so it'd be like me doing a scene head tilted, and then pausing in the middle of it as someone clumps up the stairs. Oh, my God. That's amazing. Yes. So that's where I recorded at home. But then I just want to talk about favorite memories of just recording with Wolf as well, because, yes, it was. I got to go to New York a couple of times, I think two or three times. One was for the live show, and one was for some other recordings of special episodes and stuff. And it's just such a magical, I think, time in my life, like, remembering that, because I didn't get to go to New York that often. I went some while we were in college, because we went to college not that far away, but still New York is. Is still so exciting and was very exciting when I got to go in those moments. And I was like, you know, like, I don't know, mid-20s, early-20s. I was staying at my friend's place, who also was, like, in a little shoebox apartment. He was out of town. He let me stay in his apartment, and it was literally like I was sleeping, and it's like his clothes were on a rack, like, above the bed. That's how small his apartment. So this is a theme. It's a theme being in small, enclosed spaces. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But just, like, the magic of, like, waking up in New York and then walking to the studio every day and getting to, like, see wonderful people is just like. Yeah. Memories I'll cherish forever. Well, I feel similarly because, you know, halfway through, I moved away from New York, and so when I got to come back, it just felt like coming home, it was magical being able to be there and make this art together. So, yeah, I absolutely relate to that. Okay. Oh, and last Question for you, Scotty. Do you have any thoughts about what Cutter's drink of choice would be? Oh, yes. Okay. So I did try to find a wine for today, which I would sort of pair with it. So I went to this place called Silver Lake Wine, which is like a specialty wine store. And I went and I asked if they had any wines from Carmel, California, which is where Cutter grew up. It's like Cutter's origin story. Right. So I really wanted this. Carmel. And in Carmel, Carmel by the Sea, which is also where my aunt and uncle live. So I'm very familiar with it. And they didn't. They didn't quite have any ones from exactly Carmel. They had some that were close, but I was like, if it doesn't have Carmel in the name, like, ugh, that kind of doesn't work. So I wandered around and I looked for more, and I ended up finding this one. Okay. And I will have to describe it, but basically I chose it because the label on the front is pretty much blank. There's not a lot of information. Except there's a chess board and it says red on the top and white on the bottom. And it looks like white has, I guess, red or black. Whichever. It's kind of black and white in Checkmate or something very close to checkmate. There's only a few pieces left of the board, and the queen is like gold. So it's. It's chess themed, which I thought was very perfect. Perfect for Mr. Cutter. Just like scheming chess. So that one, it drew me to it. It's a Cabernet Sauvignon from the Napa Valley 2019. It was made by the Wonderland Project. I think they're called the Wonderland Project. And where was it? Yes. And the vineyard where they got the grapes is called 3 Atlas Peak. And I guess the Wonderland Project is like a small wine broker and former sommelier who makes these specialty wines, saying we rely on native yeast fermentations and minimal interventionless methods. We celebrate California the way it once was. That's amazing. That sounds like an awesome wine. I don't. I don't think I've ever had that or seen it, but I'm going to look out for it now because that sounds so good. And I do think Napa Cab is a really good one for Cutter because he's very, like, old school. And Mapa Cabs are like classic top notch wines. And so I think Cutter would definitely be a cab drinker. I also thought, just for fun, that he would probably enjoy like a. Like a Sweet Riesling. Wow. Every once in a while. Every once in a while. Just to. Just to throw you off your game. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. I feel like he has a bit of a sweet tooth. That would make sense. He does. He does. Yeah. Definitely. I love it. I love it. Okay. Zack. Yes. Zack Valenti. Yes. Okay, both of you, this will. Yeah. Yeah. This will only be questions about Hilbert. No. So, Zach, I don't so much have, like, questions for you as. I thought it would be fun for people to hear about, like, how we started. How we started working on this and so my first memory of meeting you was. I think I came to your apartment on the Upper west side. Oh, my God. Amazing. Yeah. My parents placed. Yeah. Yeah. And then we, like, went and got a couple beers and we were like, don't know what we're doing, but I think it's gonna be fun. Yeah, exactly. And then. Yeah. This was after taking, like, about 30 minutes to play improv games in character, I believe, probably. Yeah. Did we do. Yeah. I'm pretty sure Gabrielle put us through our paces before we went for those drinks. And it was just that kind of. I think you're right. Figuring out the tones and the. Just like. Yeah. Just putting that sanding edge on the rough characters as they sort of found them. Found their voices through our voices and vice versa. He also did that with the thesis film that I was talking about earlier. Similar directorial beginnings of, like, improvising as the characters. Oh, I love that. Oh, the process. Yeah. We've got your number, Urbina. But. Okay. So speaking of that, my next memory is one of my favorite memories which was our very first recording session where we recorded, I think, the first three episodes, maybe just the pilot. So my recollection is that we did the pilot at basically a music rehearsal space that Jared Paul, at the time, who recorded all of. Pretty much all of the show, with some exceptions. Yes. But. Yeah. Called in a favor. He hooked us up. At some point during the pilot, the drum and bass guy next door started up. Yes. So, but even. But even before that, I remember that you, Gabrielle and I were together going to the studio and I had previously recorded with Jared for something else for a different project. And it had been at this one recording studio. And for some reason I thought that that was the studio that we were going to. And we all thought that and were on the stairs for a long time before we realized we were in the wrong part of Brooklyn. And then didn't. Didn't like your. One of your old film professors from then I ran into Professor Ofault and then he gave us a ride teacher from my junior year and he was kind enough to give us a desperate lift. Yeah. Over to the actual studio we needed to record in, which was not yet Spaceman. It was a different one. No, it was a different one. We did the next two or three episodes for sure. Yes. Before. I think it was three. I think I remember. Well, I think you, you even did Cigarette Candy. Right. I remember we basically had like something like 20 minutes left in the studio. 30 minutes left in the studio, which was like almost exactly the runtime of what we needed to get Cigarette Candy in. Right. And I think you had to like run to like your next thing and it was just like, well, fuck, yeah. Yeah, I guess we're doing this thing. Yeah. And I just like went back and forth for the first time in character because. Because for those of you who don't know, at the beginning of the process we would usually do, for Zack, we would usually do a take with him as Eiffel and then a take with him as Hilbert or a few takes of each. And I would play the other character and at a certain point you were just like, no, I'm way too good for this. And you would just start going back and forth and it was amazing. It was amazing to watch. Yeah, yeah. I remember that particularly being. I think that Gabrielle might kill us if we don't get all this content recorded in time. Because he was not yet on the east coast for that recording session. He was still living in la, making his way over here. Yeah, no, we were like very speculatively spending money we did not exactly have. Yeah, yeah. On this, this venture at that time and. Yeah, I remember. Just like pure fe. Yeah. Kicking in. Yeah, no, that's right. I remember because he, he did come out for at least the pilot and maybe the first two or three episodes, but. But then he wasn't here, or I say here, he wasn't in New York until like episode eight or nine, I think maybe something like that. Something like that. I remember him being like remotely involved for that first full like multi episode recording session after having gotten to be together for the pilot recording. Yeah. Just to kind of like start things out on the right foot. Right, right. Okay. So Zach, I'm not gonna ask you what you think Eiffel would drink for obvious reasons because he's wearing his thumb through a very, very distinguished chip at this point. Let's hope. Yes, I hope so. I hope so. But Hilbert. That's right. What do we think Hilbert drinks This is. I don't always drink. Yeah. When I do, it's seven and seven all the way. I love it. I, I can't decide with Hilbert whether he's like. Yeah, like very like basic, like Budweiser. It's good. Yeah. Right. Or like he really likes the really esoteric stuff, you know. Right. Ethanol is ethanol after all. Yeah, exactly. I do have a headcanon where like he was doing research in Mount Etna which is a volcano in Sicily and there's great wines made around there. And so he discovered the wines of Etna and he's like, yes, these are good. This is my thing now. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna ask you. I'm sorry. This has mostly been like my favorite memories but maybe one of my favorite memories from Recording World 359 was when you were just like messing around as Hilbert and you were doing like fake commercials and you did, you did one for Frosted Flakes. I don't know if you remember this, but I remember this. You're like Frosted Flakes. They're okay. And I lost it. And I lost it and I, I was just like, okay, this is the funniest thing I've ever heard. But that's all, that's all this shame I did not get job. Yeah, yeah. Missed opportunity through. It's true. But yes, this is, this is all to say. I know Zach, you and I have talked about this a lot but I feel like in those early days especially of Wolf, we learned so much from each other because you were just so good at voice acting and like working with the microphone and everything. And I had never done it before. Actor. Well, I wouldn't say I'm a genius actor but I barely touched save for a couple 24 hour plays at Wesleyan. Right, right. And I'd been basically just scrambling with the sort of piecemeal voiceover scene. Commercial voiceover scene in New York City. Right, right. Consists of throwing a lot of money down speculative holes with like casting agents and directors and, and coaches who. I got lucky and got some great people. Um. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, let's just say it didn't move so quickly in the earning back that money that I was pretty excited to shake Gabrielle down for for the show Bible and pilot when I first got introduced to the fact that he was working on a show on Facebook. Yes. But so, so since I mostly co opted this. Do you have any specific. I probably like for me it's hard to pick just one. But do you have any favorite memories from Recording? I Have my most embarrassing gaff. That's great. Yes. Which was pretty great. In the middle of a very long dramatic take with, I want to say, almost the entire cast and crew at like a later season when we had like seven or eight people. Yeah. In the room. Like season three. Somewhere in there. Maybe season four. I think it must have been season three, because we were still at the J Street studio with all the creepy puppets in the wings. I think there's still a YouTube video somewhere on my channel with those. It was like a marionette guys storage unit that got turned into a studio was a huge upgrade from the place we did the pilot. And like, I think on par with Spaceman. Yeah. Which was awesome. But had the benefit of creepy puppets. Yes. And in the middle of a take, I thought that the take was over and somebody had said, like, the line sort of ended on this thing that in my mind at the time, just felt like it worked with. You're the best around song. Yes. Yes. From that fucking Karate Kid movie. And so it's like in the middle of a scene where everybody's holding bated breath. I'm like, cool, we're done with that one. And you're the best round. I didn't even know all the words. And he literally did that. It was like the most painful silence as it dawned on me that we were in the middle of working before everybody immediately burst out laughing at me. And it was a very fun moment for everybody. It was great. I. I remember that. I remember that. I think Gabrielle only lost like half a year of his life for how behind we were in the schedule and how much that wasted our time. But it was a very good laugh that I think about, not infrequently. It was definitely worth it. It was amazing. Okay, before we wrap up with you three, this might be a tough question, but do you have a favorite episode? Not necessarily that you recorded, but one. Or it can be a couple to listen to or it could be one that you recorded. So this is, I think, a non controversial take. That Memoria remains the highest score tears per minute episode for my personal listening experience, which I hold as a high, high bar in my. My media diet. Absolutely love that episode. Yeah. It's so good. And it's okay if you don't remember the titles, because I don't always remember the titles of the episode. Oh, me neither. But I know Gabrielle and Sarah always do. And I'm always like. And like the few episodes that I quote, unquote, wrote, like, I forget that I wrote stuff in Them. So. But if Scotty and Julian, do you have any particular, like, moments that stood out to you, like, in terms of either listening or recording? I don't think so. I don't think I have an answer to this. I mean, obviously, the show changed completely when I came in. It did sort of hard to even think about it. It's like a pre. Right. Pre Victor Ryman. Post Victor Ryman. So it's. Yeah. So I would say that first, your entrance. Right. It's like, pick an era. Which era do you like better? Yeah. Whoa. Everything changed. It's true. It's true. I know you're being facetious, but it's true. Scotty. Yeah. Memoria always felt like a standout for me as well, I have to say. And I always love the episodes where you're like, er, Minkowski's going hard against the. The plant monster. That was always lovely and funny. I mean, selfishly, that was my favorite to record. One of my favorites to record Minkowski commanding. What a gift. What a gift to be able to do. Because I feel like that was one of the first times I really got to do, like, comedy. Maybe not. That's not true, but. Maybe. But it was very fucking funny. Well, thank you. Well, thank you. She didn't think so. Minkowski did not think anything. That's what makes it so good. And then. And then to sort of prep for this, I was reading over that special episode, Volt Face again, because it was just like. And that was just a really fun one to record. I mean, I liked it because it also revealed a lot about Cutter's origin story and background. But it was also really fun one to record because the whole thing was just kind of like a stalemate chess game going back to chess of between me and, like, Ariella or Rachel, who was going by a different name when it started. Yeah, right. That one was really fun. That is a great episode. And if you haven't listened to it, because maybe some people who have listened to Wolf 359 might have missed that one, go back and listen to it. It's so good. It's so good. I also. I also just wanted to say, because this was one of the first times we got to work together, Scotty. But the live show was so fun. I don't know if that counts, but. Yeah, of course. Of course. But. But it was so fun. It was so fun. I think that might be the funnest. Like, I don't know. I. Having not had a lot of experience with live performance. Yeah, that holds A special place in my heart. Absolutely. It's different. It's different. Live performance is different from, you know, either film or voiceover, but. But it was. It was just such a treat. It was such a treat just getting that feedback from people and like, yeah, like, people from Canada, like, coming to see us in, like, Union Square. Like, it was crazy wild. Loved it, loved it. It was really wonderful. And to think about also that some. Some people who were then would become cast members, like, right away were in the audience as well. I think Michelle was in the audience. I think Noah was famously pat her head as you enter the scene. Yeah, yeah, There you go. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Right. Amazing. Well, thank you guys so much. I could keep talking to you all for much, much longer, but we've got other people to talk to also, so thank you so much. It's a delight to see you all. I'm so grateful that we got to have this experience together. And it was wonderful working with every single one of you. You too. Thank you, Commander. I got you, Commander. Same. I love you all so much. So despite my past as a stage manager, I wasn't able to schedule a time that worked, worked for absolutely everyone to do this reunion. But I was able to snag some of those who couldn't make it after the fact, including the one and only Ariella Rotengold, who played Rachel Young on the show. I can attest that Ariella is one of the best people in the world, one of my dearest friends, and whose voice you can also hear in zero hours, an aforementioned project from Long Story Short Productions. Now, in this little conversation, I had some major issues with my audio. It's a long story. I'll tell you some other time. But again, Zach Valenti helped me make it sound so much better. So I hope you'll enjoy. Well, I am so thrilled that we managed to squeak in a little. Squeak in. Sure, let's go with that. Yeah, we're squeaking it in. A little recording session with the one and only Ariella Roten Gold. Name changed. Name changed. A whole new person, formerly the Ariella, formerly known as Rotenberg, who plays Rachel in Wolf 359. I'm so excited that you're here. Thank you so much for being here. Oh, it's my pleasure. This is such a joy. I was so sad I couldn't be with y'all. I know it was fun, but, you know, it. I mean, now that I'm recording this after the fact, we're going to release it, you know, all together. But this Emma has some perspective that former Emma did not have, which is that the sad part was I didn't really get to catch up with anybody during the. Yeah, so. So that was. So that was a little bit of a bummer. But. But anyway, that's okay. The art comes first. So, Ariella, I have a couple of questions which I have been asking everybody, and so I'm going to ask you as well, if that's okay. Great. Of course. Yes. Awesome. Okay, so my first question is, do you have a favorite memory from the recording process of Wolf 359? Yes. So, as you and I were saying before we started recording, I am experiencing the challenges of memory that I think many of us are in these strange and upsetting times we remain in. Absolutely, Absolutely. You. And I am. I am on this end of our microphones from. In New York City, where cases have, like, doubled in the last three days or, like, positivity rates anyway. But regardless. So I don't know how much of this is memory and how much of this is. I've seen this photo a million times, and so now it, like, feels like a memory. That counts. Yeah, that counts as memory. There's this great photo where I'm sitting on a chair either, like, on Zach labresco or next to Zach labresco, and we are making, like, real funny faces together into the camera and that. And I do remember that, like, he and I were just kind of, like, being goofballs together in the. In the studio, and it was, like, such a fun, wonderful time. And just, like, the camaraderie of, like, all of us being together. I don't know if listeners know that that was one of the only times that we were, like, really, every single person, we were all together in that space. It was so magical. I think it really was the only time that we were all together. Yeah, I think there were times when it was almost everybody, but that was the only time that it was every single one of the cast members. Yeah, and Alan, too. Alan, Rodney and Alan. So that's definitely a fond memory, I think, for all of us. And I feel like everybody has a different favorite photo with Zach labresco. I feel like that's from. From the recording. He's good like that. He's really. He. He. He takes good pictures. He takes good pictures with us. Do you. I don't actually know if you know this, Emma, but Zach labresco was in his. So we all met in college. Zach labresco was in his first year when I was In, I think it was my. My senior year of college, and I was the teaching assistant in one of his intro theater classes. And to this day, he mostly refers to me as, from Zach labresco's voice, my ta. Yeah. So, like, I remain Zach labresco's TA to this day. That makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense to me. Yes. And. And, and for those of you who don't know, Zach and I met my senior year of college, which would have been the next year. I think we'd met before, but we really got to know each other working on Richard iii, which was my thesis performance. I played Richard and. And killed it. Well, thank you. You're so good. Oh, I appreciate that. But Zach played several roles, including Catesby, who's one of Richard's servants towards the end. And. And so we still refer to each other. Sometimes he calls me. He calls me Richard, and sometimes I'll call him Kate's be. So, you know, these things. These things carry over. And. Is he still your servant? No. He surpassed me. I like to. I like to joke that he's my. He was my protege because we. We did Shakespeare together. And then he did Shakespeare and Company a couple years after I did Shakespeare and Company, but then he ended up doing, like, way more with them, so I. He. He surpassed me. He surpassed me. We can all just be different, you know? Exactly. Exactly. Okay, but then my next question for you, Ariella, this is the most important I know. What do you think Rachel drinks? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. This is the best question. Yeah. Okay, well, I have my ideas, but I want to hear what you think. And it's like, which wine does she drink? Or just like, what does she drink? What does she drink? Wine. It could be another. Another kind of alcoholic or non alcoholic beverage. If you think she's not a. Not a booze. I'm pretty sure that she drinks Scotch neat. Yes. Like, I'm pretty sure she's just, like, mainlining any form of whiskey that she can get her hands on. I love that. I love that in my. In my headcanon. She also. I think of all the characters on Wolf 359, with maybe the exception of Kepler, she has the best taste. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Like, she's drinking real good scotch. Or she's drinking, like, white burgundy. Like, I picture her coming home after a long day and, like, have you seen Ted Lasso? Of course I have. Of course you have. Okay, so I picture her as Hannah Waddingham, like, coming home, like, kicking off her pumps and like, Pulling a bottle of wine out of her wine fridge and pouring it. You. So, okay, so. Yes, yes, yes. This is what I think. I think all of the alcohol that she owns and keeps in her home. Yes. Very top shelf. Like, absolutely. I love. I love this analogy. I think that she can get a little, well, drinky at the dive bar. Yeah. I think if she has, like, a long day and she's just, like, I mean, staying in the TED Lasso Hannah Waddingham theme, I think that she can just, like, be done and, like, go get just, like, whatever is available to her. I love that. I love that. Yes. But, yeah, I think that, like, there's a lot of appearance that, like, she. I think that she, like, keeps the nice stuff at home. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Okay. I love that. So those are all the questions I have for you, unless there's a favorite episode from Wolf359. But I know you were saying, like, memory pandemic. Let's see. I mean, I just. I think that the finale, in part, just because it, like, was such a wonderful recording experience and because we were all together, like, is just, like, such a. Such a treat and has to be up there for me. Absolutely, Absolutely. I also literally can't remember the name of any other episode right now. Oh, my God. I can't remember the names of any of the episodes. So don't. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. With a few exceptions, but whenever I'm talking to Zach, or sometimes Zach, but definitely Gabrielle and Sarah, they have, like, an encyclopedic knowledge, which makes sense because they wrote them. Yes. And they're a little encyclopedic. Like, you just have those, like, a brilliant, amazing mnemonic brains. Yes, definitely. Definitely. All right, well, thank you so much, Ariella. I'm so glad we got to squeeze you in. Right. That's what I said. Yeah. We squealed me in. We squeaked me. Squealed. Squeaky. Squeaked you in. Squeaky squeaked me in. Yes. We squeaked you in. Yes. Thank you so much. This was so fun. Yay. It's so good to see you. And we'll have to catch up more soon. That sounds great. All right, next on the docket, we've got Noah Mazur, who played Daniel Jacoby, Michelle Agresti, who played Alana Maxwell, and writer extraordinaire Sarah Shakat. You can hear Noah in an episode of Zero Hours, and Michelle in some of my favorite audio dramas of the past few years, Arden and Hit the Bricks. Sarah told me not to plug anything for her, but she is too amazing not to share that. She is quietly one of the best writers in audio fiction. And I am so excited that she has written an episode for the upcoming season of Wooden Overcoats. Spoilers. You're gonna hear more about that later on. And since I've got your attention, I've got another thing to promote for myself. Look, it's my show. I am so excited to announce that I am an acting coach on skillshub, an online community of voice and other types of actors founded by the legendary voice actor Jennifer Hale, who voices Commander Shepard in Mass Effect, amongst several hundred other roles. Skillshub is an amazing resource for all actors, and if you're interested in voice acting or audio drama and you want to chat with me about it, you can book a session with me. And there are also tons of free resources on the site. Please check it out at Acting Skillshub Life. All right, on to the next phase. Noah, could you slate this one? Oh, yeah, let me slate. Ladies and gentlemen, it's a convening of the slates. We are here today. We are gathered here today for one slate and for one slate only. We shall. We shall not make any miss slates or mistakes. We all know this. This is take one, and hopefully the only take. And yes, then we clap. Yay. Welcome. Welcome to pairing. Welcome back, Sarah and Michelle, and welcome for the first time, Noah. So excited. Very happy to be here. Thank you. Yay. So this is most of team Jakoby. Sadly, Zach Labresco couldn't be here tonight, but he's with us in spirit. He's, you know, we're raising a glass of balveny scotch to him. I have scotch for him. Don't worry. Okay, great. Great. I knew I could count on you, Sarah. Okay, so what we're gonna do is I'm just gonna go kind of through with each of you and. And others, feel free to chime in at any. At any time. And just. I've got a couple questions for you about this crazy thing we did called Wolf 359. And, Sarah, let's start with you. Why not? Sure. The. The. The Soul of Wolf 359. Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm sticking to that. No, seriously, when. Once you came on. I mean, I know. Well, I made a face for the listeners. Yeah, she did, she did. But so, Sarah, you were kind of like script consulting, I think, for Gabrielle before you officially came on as a writer. Is that correct? Yes, I got the initial pilot just in One of, at the time, many, like, friend swaps of our writing projects. And then he just kept sending me scripts, and I kept liking them. And eventually I was in a vulnerable enough place in my personal life where he was able to manipulate me into coming on as a writer. And it was a joy. Ah, classic manipulation. We're just figuring out all Gabriel's tactics. Classic Urbina. Classic Urbina. So all friendships, all good friendships begin with schemes. Schemes and manipulation. Just waiting until. Until you're emotionally vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. Key to a good friendship. It really is. And a good working relationship also. But it seems. It seems to have worked. And I know, at least from an acting perspective, it was just such a joy to work on the scripts that you wrote. I mean, I know you worked on all of them to some extent, but the ones that you wrote specifically were just such a joy. So, so wonderful. And so I'm trying to. So I'm going through. And I'm asking everybody the hardest of questions, which is, do you have a favorite memory from the recording process? And it's okay if it's not just one. That's an excellent question. It could be also from the writing process for you. Ooh. I mean, I think to stick to the recording process. I really loved us all. I loved the live show and the fact that, like, everyone was in the same place, even Michelle, Noah, and Zach, who weren't a part of it yet, were there. And part of. And part of that madness. Yes. So the night of the live show is a big high for me, as is the finale recording for. You know, as bittersweet as it was, it was a lot of fun that weekend and something I think we all kind of needed. And I loved being there for the finale. Yeah. And it was so great to have because, Michelle, you came back for that as well. And so it really was like we were all there together. That was definitely, definitely a highlight, for sure. Yeah. And the live show was so much fun. I was just talking with the other boys about this, but we had so much fun doing that. And it was just a totally different way of telling the story and being able to do that was just such a. Such a treat. Yeah, I think I was behind the camera for that. I think I was filming. Yeah, I think you were. Yeah. Like, I think we. I think. I think at that point. Yes. So Zach and Noah were working. Yeah. Yeah, they were. He was just there. Yeah. Yeah. You were just sat next to Scottie, right, Michelle? I know. I was sitting next to Scotty. Yeah. Who was also, like, a Surprise guest at the live show. Right. Like years later, some fans like figured that out. They were like, wait, isn't that Michelle Agresti next to Mr. Cutter, like in the live show recording? Yep. And we were. Because we were already, I guess we were already cast at that point, but we hadn't. Yes. We hadn't started. Yeah. But nobody knew that we were gonna be in it. Yeah. But no one knew. Yeah. Wow. Also fun fact, Michelle, I don't know if you know this at this point. I feel like I can tell you this. Gabrielle, very sweetly, like during a read through when it was still just me, Zach and Cece, I think. Cause Mikayla wasn't there. He was like, so we're. So we're casting these new characters and I want to give you guys the opportunity to audition. And I was like, oh, I want to audition for Maxwell. So I auditioned for Maxwell, but he made us do it like live and in front of each other. And it was, it was very mean, but also worked out for the best because I'm so glad that you came on and played the role of Maxwell, which you were. It was just such an amazing part. And you, I mean, you know, so many people talk about. And I don't think this is necessarily the, you know, the only thing that we can talk about Maxwell for. But you know, people talk about Memoria and you were such a driving force of that script and that recording process. It was just, it was just a delight to be there in the room with you and Mikayla. So don't worry, Sarah, I'm not done with you. But I just felt like switching over to. Oh no, you could have done with me. To talk about like fond memories of recording times. When we recorded Memoria, we were at Jared's old studio. Yeah. The Marianne studio. Yes. The marionette studio that had all of these like scary puppets everywhere. And it was like the middle of summer and we had to turn off the air conditioning. Oh yeah. It was so hot. So hot. So we, Mikayla and I were just like dripping with sweat. Yeah. Like in this together. It was very. It was a good memory. Yeah. It was a real. It was a real marathon and it really, I mean it really paid off. Obviously. Obviously. Okay, quick question back to you, Sarah, real quick. So I'm asking. Yeah, that was a fun recording weekend. Yeah. Because we. That was the first time we had Mikayla in the studio with us. Right. Is that true? I think, I think so. Yeah. And we'd had like a. A season party or something. Yeah. As. As part of that weekend, if I'm remembering correctly. And everyone was super hungover for when we recorded All Things Considered, which was perfect. Perfect. Yes. And then everyone. I just remember, like, the bated breath that people had in the studio when we were recording Memorial on a different day. Thank God. Oh, I remember when we had the party at Zach's old office. Oh, right. Was it that one? There were. There were. There were several parties. But I. I have to say personally that recording All Things Considered is one of my favorite memories, because it was just. It was just like a very different. A very different kind of episode than we had done before. And getting. Getting to play with Noah and Zach and just be utterly absurd. That might have been the funniest, like, time, like, spent recording. For sure. Yeah, absolutely. When. When Gabrielle just, like, let us each, like, improvise, like, two minutes of screaming. Oh, yeah. Cece with the Thunderdome line. Yeah, I love. So Gabrielle always. Gabriel and Zach always ask us, like, what would you like to see from the upcoming season? And I like, never know what to say, like, because it's like, I don't know. What. What's the story, guys? I'm not gonna. And I always say musical episode, duh. But that season I said I would love if we had, like, an all girls slumber party. What if we had girls only slumber party night? And that was the answer was this game night. So that one is my greatest regret because I was not able to be there in the studio to record that one for Funzo. Cause that was Funzo, right? That was Funzo. Yeah. And so I recorded the Funzo episode on my mic that I'm recording on now, which hopefully now sounds much better than it did. But Winston set it up, like, way too complex. Cause he had done stuff for film and tv, and so he had, like, a lapel on me. And like, we were recording and like, five different places or something. And so I sent this massive file to Gabrielle and he was like, I don't know what you've done. And I was like, I don't either. So I would. If I had one wish, it would be. If we could do. If we could do a reunion and rerecord my part of the Funzo episode, that would make me very happy. But that episode was so fun. I loved that. I loved that one too. The read through of that might have been the hardest I've ever laughed. Like, just hearing it for the first time, I was like, this is the most ridiculous thing. It's so ridiculous. And that was such a wonderful thing. About the show. And, Sarah, you could probably talk about this as well, just, like, finding the balance. Cause, you know, we sort of started off, like, funny and kind of absurdist and then got very, very serious. And then the balance throughout the rest of the season of striking, like, comedy versus drama. I think. I think we did a good job, and I give all the credit to the writers. But, Sarah, I was going to ask you, so. And this is a question that I'm gonna ask you, Noah and Michelle, but it's slightly harder for you because I've been going through and thinking about what each character would be, their drink of choice. It doesn't necessarily have to be wine, but for you, Sarah, as a writer, what is your drink of choice? Or do you think there's a good drink to have with Wolf 359 or a particular episode of Wolf 359? Ooh, I remember. I think, yes, you were a part of this, Emma. The final cast party that we had for season four, I bought a bottle of a whiskey called Writer's Tears. Yes. Oh, my God, yes. Everyone who had written an episode of the show did a shot of that at that party. And so I love it because of that memory. And. And it's an Irish whiskey, so it's a little bit sweeter, but still has that kind of bracing balance, which the show does, too. Yeah. I would say it was a show that I. Yeah, I grew a lot on and, like, learned kind of how to write for audio, which was a process. Early drafts of my season two episodes. No one ever needs to see, because who. Boy, I'm sure they were great. I'm sure they were. Yeah. I would say. I would say that. That whiskey in particular. Okay, I love that. I love that. That's perfect. Yeah. Irish whiskey. Irish whiskey is. Is. It feels like a really good drink for Wolf 359. And Writer's Tears, of course, because any. Any writer sheds good tears. I mean, I gotta. Yeah, you gotta. You gotta. And also, we wanted people to cry. I want to be clear about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was part of the point. That was part of the intention. Absolutely. We want you to be miserable. Yeah. Because then the funny bits hit harder. Exactly, Exactly. It's all about the juxtaposition. Okay. Mr. Mazer. Yes. So how do you slate so well. No, I have other questions. I have other questions, but I want to know. I was raised to slate. I think it was one of those things where you were born to slate. Born to slate. If I'm not told, if I'm Told to stay on script. I will stay on script. But if I'm not given a script and I have to make something up, well, that's my time to paint with my imagination. Brush. Right, Right. Oh, my God, that's amazing. For those of you who you don't know, I feel like we've talked about this in like AMAs behind the scenes and stuff, but Noah. Noah's slating was like, worth the price of admission for. For. The only problem was that, you know, we would spend like two minutes of a recording time for the hard drive. Space would be taken up. Just. Just lady. I think Gabrielle was like, okay, well, we gotta get out of here at some point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is. He's like. And this is costing me. Yeah, exactly. But. Yeah, yeah, but, but, but, but. And yet he still kept asking you to do it. So I think. I think it was. I think it was all worth it. But so I. So I. As I told. I told you all at the beginning of this, I am drinking a wine called Jacoby. Yeah. Which I had to. It's spelled with a K, but we'll. Well, forgive them for that. He planted that wine, actually. That's. Yeah. Yeah, he did. Well, I was thinking for Jacoby that he would definitely be like a hipster wine snob. Like, really into orange wine. Like, I mean, he's basically a chemist, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I think he would be really serious about it. I think his wine would be like. It would be maybe start subtle, but it would be surprisingly alcoholic as well. Like, definitely. It would kind of hit you and you'd be like, wait, what happened? Like a bomb hit you? Exactly. Yeah. No, that's perfect. And there's a lot. It's a wine with a lot of hidden features. You know, it's like he's a very. He keeps himself very close, you know, close to the chest. So he doesn't kind of like reveal much on the outside. Absolutely, absolutely. So I wanted to ask you, Noah, talking about all that, about Jakoby, he was one of my favorite characters because. Well, obviously because of your amazing performance. But also. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that goes without saying. That goes without saying. But really was a really surprising character, I think, in kind of his journey. And I don't know if you have anything to. To say about, like, what kind of his arc felt like to you, because to me, he's kind of one of the most demonstrably, like, starts in this place. Ends up in a very different place kind of characters. Yeah, I mean, I think he surprised me too, when I first read him. I mean, I was auditioning for a couple of roles. Like, I was sort of, you know, I was more interested in Kepler. I thought he was immediately to me, a more interesting character to play this super intimidating person. Whereas Jacoby, to me felt easy. It was like, okay, he's sarcastic, he's not really interested, he's over competent. And that's sort of like, okay, that's sort of all there is to it. And I think that there was a lot more buried deeper. And also I think this sort of happens when you play a role, but like, your own personality starts to come in and starts to leak in. Absolutely. And I think that, you know, as he moved on his journey also, he kind of became more like me. Yeah, no, absolutely. And that's something that I think about a lot is how lucky I felt to be able to play a character for that long. And, you know, if I go back and listen to, like, early episodes of Wolf 359, I'm like, oh, I did not know who Minkowski was yet. And part of that was, you know, at a certain point, the actor just informs a character that just. That's just how it works. So, yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. I think there's a silliness to Jakoby which, you know, leaks in on different places, you know, like sticking in his fear of ducks. Which is one of my favorite things, of course. Which is like. Of course. Yeah, it's like it's. It makes perfect sense. Part of it makes perfect sense because of how Jacoby had moved thus far and how the performance. I don't know if that would have made perfect sense with a different actor playing Jakoby in the first place. It might have gone very differently. Yeah. And there's sort of a heart there. It would have. We learned a whole lot just about the characters by listening to you guys. And I think especially with Jacoby and Maxwell, I sort of thought I knew who they were. And then I had to write like the first episode with you two and having listened to what she had done and just sort of like the. The early episodes of season three, I was like, oh, I'm being surprised. These are very different people. Yeah, right. Yeah. And I think, like, you know, there's the. I think one aspect that I was interested in was, like, his loyalty. You know, like he's. He's a person who has pretty strict loyalties and like, you know, it starts to become one of these things where when you first meet him, it's like, okay, this person is this way, and then you have to start thinking about why. And that's where it become. He becomes a deeper character. Absolutely. Okay. So for both Noah and Michelle, I want to ask you, do you have favorite memory? Like, like, and we talked about this a little bit, like, some of our favorite memories, but is there, like, anything we haven't talked about yet, or is there a favorite episode that. And Sarah, you can ask. You can answer this too. Like, just like a favorite episode to listen to, I think, like, not to. Not to bring the mood down. Yeah. But what if that's okay? That's part of our thing. One of my favorite memories. And there's a really. There's a really sweet picture of me, Noah, and Zach from this day. It was like right after Trump got elected and we had. And something else very sad happened in the personal lives of many people who worked on Wolf 359. And it coincided with a recording weekend. And recording weekends were always special because people literally flew in for them. Yeah, I remember. I actually. I remember flying in. Yeah. And so we were all together and it was like, during this time where everyone was feeling very low, and it was a just lovely. It was just like, lovely to be there together, making stuff with people. And there's a really sweet picture of, like, me. No one's act like cuddling on the ground. Yeah, that's one of my favorite memories that weekend. Even though we were all very sad, it was just, like, very nice to be together. No, I think you're really. You're right. That was that. Actually, that memory stands out to me because I do remember it was like a week after Trump got elected and we were all, like, kind of in shock and. But then to be able to come together and, like, make art together and tell this story together and just be together was a gift. It was such a gift. A moment that sticks out to me is when Zach finished recording but started singing. Yeah. He thought that the take was done, but it was in the middle of the take and he just starts singing. Oh, my God. He brought that. Just so you know, he brought that. Oh, my God. Yeah. Unbelievable. You're the best around. Nothing's gonna ever bring you down. And we were. And we were. Yeah. It was so sincere. It was like a very serious scene, too. And it was not done. It was not done. I remember just looking at him and being like, there's more to this scene, you know? You know that, right? Because it's not out of character for Eiffel to just break into song. It's like, maybe he's doing a thing. Oh, God, it's perfect. He's making a choice. Yeah. No, it was incredible. We were all live. So good. A classic. I'm glad that it's already been brought up. Yeah. I hope that this last group that I'm recording with also brings it up. Yeah. I would say. Oh, my favorite episode that I recorded. I think, personally, my favorite, like, my favorite Jacob. Jacoby episode is Time to Kill with the Multiple Jacobys. I just had a blast recording that, and I was screaming the whole time. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wild. Amazing. Yeah, amazing. And my favorite episode to listen to, honestly, like, this might be one of my favorite. Just, like, as just a piece of, like, audio fiction, to me. Doesn't even have Jacoby in it. It's Mayday. I love Mayday. I also love Mayday. Mayday's phenomenal. I think Mayday is, like. It's a really unique, like, format and, like, the way it's presented. And I just was just like, wow, like, we're doing something really cool with audio. I just thought Mayday is awesome. I agree. I agree. The Pan Pan was one of my favorites to record, and that was one where, like, again, talking about, like, tough situations, like, I hadn't. Like, I just felt like I hadn't slept in 36 hours. Cece was sick, and, like, everybody was kind of miserable. But it just worked for that, for that episode. And then to listen to that was another one where it was really hot and you guys were pretending to be. Yes, that's right. That's right. Being in the booth, being like, how are they? They're really good actors. How are they doing this? Well, if you're in that much discomfort, it's not hard to imagine a different kind of discomfort. Um, but yeah, those were. Those two recording Pan Pan and listening to Mayday. Yeah, listening to Mayday, I was like, oh, fuck. We. We're doing something really cool. Yeah. So I agree. Okay, last question. Sarah, you already kind of answered this one, but. Oh, actually, and Noah, you. You did to talking about Jacoby, but Michelle, what do you think? Maxwell's drink of choices. Okay. Okay. So I've been thinking about this. Yeah, I have been thinking about this, and my, like, first inclination is like, she drinks vodka. Like, I think Maxwell's very to the point. Like, she's probably drinking a martini. Yeah. Probably drinking a martini. It's probably drinking the kind of martini that doesn't have anything in it. Yeah. Just like saying, as somebody who's Made a bunch of martinis for customers. Many people don't even want vermouth. Right. I don't know what they think we're doing. What do they think of martinis? Cold vodka. They want cold, cold vodka in, like a triangle glass, you know? And like, that's what. That's what the people want. So I think Maxwell is like somebody who would order a martini and it's not dirty. It's like just a straight up martini. And the reason why I was like, oh, she's probably drinks a vodka soda, but that's kind of like a party drink. I don't think Maxwell's a partier. Also, just in the recesses of my mind, I remember that Maxwell is technically from Montana. And this never, like, really came. Came up during the series, like, from Montana. She's from a farm. She's like, sharpshooter, has all brothers kind of lifestyle. And also what I was thinking about is that Maxwell was definitely a horse girl. Oh, 100% crazy horse girl. Yeah. 100% horse girl. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Maxwell's 100% a horse girl. And that's where my mind went. And that's just funny to me because I also play another character on another podcast, Bea Casely on Arden. Not to plug. But Beah is also no plug. Plug away. BIA is also a confirmed horse girl. Michelle, you found your type. So I am. I'm fully typecast as a horse girl. I love that. I love that and that also. So there's so many wines that are that, like, have horses on the label or are, like, about horses or. Or like, name for horses or something. So I think if Maxwell drank wine or like, went to a wine store, she would just seek out the wines with horses on the label. And that's like her. Only, like, cost is not an issue. It can be. It could be $5. It could be $500. Maybe not $500, but I hope. I hope that. Yeah. How much are we gonna pay? You know? Yeah, I hope, I hope that this evil corporation pays well enough for fancy horse wine or like shitty horse wine enough. Yeah, yeah. I think. I personally think that Team Jacoby clearly can have fancy horse wine than the rest of the crew. Right. I'm right, right? Oh, yeah. Who. Who has more money than the rest of the crew? Team Jacoby makes more money. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We make more money. Yeah. Also, I was thinking about my favorite episodes, and I was a little slow because I may or may not have had to look up their names. I don't remember Most of the. I don't remember most of the episode titles. I feel terrible. But, like. Like, even the ones I wrote, I don't. There are a couple. There's a couple from the first season that I really liked because the first season was like, oh, good. First season was pretty fun, right? I mean, like, that's a joke of wolf359. Is that, like, the tone shifted considerably. Tone traveled considerably over the four seasons, and there were, like, just a couple of, like, fun, experimental episodes. Like, I liked the one about the Empty Man. Oh, yeah. Remember that one? Great one. Yes. That was so fun. Oh, yeah. The Empty man is. I feel like Empty man was. Was maybe the first that we were like, oh, yeah, this is cool. The Empty Man Cometh was very cool and funny and fun. And then I feel like we always talk about, am I alone now? Mm. Yes. Where we have. Yeah, yeah. Where we do deep dives with each character. Yeah. Which I really liked. I really liked that. I really liked that, too. And it was. It was so different. It was so different from anything we had done before and really anything we did after, too. We didn't really go back to that kind of format, I don't think. But that. That made that episode really stand out, I think. And I think it does mark, like, a turning point where it's not to say that there weren't hints of what was to come before, but that moment, but that episode, you're like, oh, we're getting to know these characters on a much deeper level. And I thought it was great to record. It was really fun to record and hopefully good to listen to also. Well, thank you guys, again. I could just keep talking with all of you. This is why it's good that we're doing it in segments. Yeah. In segments. Because otherwise it would just be like, hey, remember that time? Hey, remember that time? But this was so fun. Thank you. Team Jacoby. The best. The best. The best team. Which is. I wish Zach were here, because he. He really. He really coined Team Jacoby. He did. He was. He was a spearhead. He was. He was. He was the Team Jacoby. Yeah. The one playing the leader of the team who wasn't Jacoby. Not making Jacoby to be the team name. Which is the most Zach labresco thing. Yeah, it's classic labresco. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's the most Zach labresco thing. All right, well, this was so fun. I hope that we get to do more like this in person soon, but thank you so much for being on pairing. Absolutely. Cheers. Cheers. Oh, wait. Emma. Emma, I have one more thing to say. I have one more thing to say. Michelle. The time I appeared on Pairing, Emma and I did gas station wine where we both got wine from a gas station and we talked about Britney Spears and it's been a couple of years. Yes. Oh, and Britney is free. She's free now. Britney is free. Brittany is free. And also the wine, the wine that I brought today is three week old opened wine, Pinot Grigio that I still have some left in the bottom of to drink out of. Anyway, so we've come, we've come a long way and we also haven't gone anywhere at all. Yeah, time is a flat circle. I love it. I love it so much. That also feels very Maxwell. Like she would find, she would find like a three week old peanut Grigio in her fridge and be like cool. Like. Yeah. She's like a farm. She's like a farm person. Yeah, Absolutely. Not too fancy. Well, I'm so glad. I'm so glad we're here and that Britney is free. Thank goodness. Indeed. Indeed. So you probably noticed that Colonel Kepler wasn't in the last segment, but don't worry, I was able to snag the absolutely incredible Zach labresco after the fact. We talk about some of the things that Zach is up to in this conversation. So I won't plug it twice. But since Zach and I met doing Shakespeare, now seems like a good time to announce that my a big project for 2022 is creating a Shakespeare podcast. I've got some amazing folks on board helping me and we are in the planning stages of creating full audio productions of Shakespeare accompanied by episodes of scene work and education. I could not be more excited. So stay tuned and follow me on Twitter hegreatdilemma for updates. So I am so thrilled that we were able to bring the great Zach labresco in for a quick chat. Welcome, Zach. Hi, Emma. Hi. How are you? Hanging in there. Hanging in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're back in school so you're really the busiest of all of us at this point. I don't know about that, but it's definitely a push to the finish. Yeah, yeah, I remember. I vaguely remember those times. I remember you remembering those times. Our days of yore. Our days of yore in Middletown, Connecticut. Spoilers. I think this part will come before this conversation so it won't be new for the listeners, but Ariella and I just recorded last night. Ariella wrote in gold and we spent a great deal of time Remembering how we met you at Wesleyan. So. So you've been a great. A great. I think the time that you and I actually met was when you came to my apartment, like for a party or something. But I didn'twe didn't really connect when you lived with Dakota junior year. Yeah. Yeah, I think that sounds right. Cause I met Ariella. Cause she was my ta. Right. She was your. She was a senior. But so then we really met working together on Retro Richard iii. And so I was so excited when you were brought onto Wolf 359 as Kep1er because it was so fun playing a more antagonistic role towards you. Not that Richard is pretty antagonistic toward everyone in that play. Yeah, yeah. But you were always sort of on my side. You know, I kind of bossed you around in that. And you didn't really challenge me. Right. As Catesby in the Second Murderer. Killing people on your behalf or doing your other dirty work. Yes. Or bringing me bowls of wine. A bowl of wine Gates. A bowl of wine Gates. Me so. Well, speaking of that, let's start with that. So this is one of the questions that I've been asking everybody, and it is for you. It's sort of the easiest, but we're gonna see if we can come up with something. Something different. But what do you think Kepler drinks besides Balvenie Scotch? I mean, I don't think he does drink, you know, water for sure. Really? Really? You think. You think he does it? I think a sparkling water kind of thing. Oh, yeah. He's totally a sparkling water guy. My. Projecting myself into my character. Yeah, yeah. He's got like a soda stream. I just don't know how that works in space. You know, I'm not in that mindset right now. I'm pretty sure he couldn't take the SodaStream to space. And it's part of why he's so grumpy. He's like. And then my squeeze bottle of Balveny is outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Could dare you. How could dare you? Oh, my God. Yes. We slipped in. How could dare you? That's classic. Classic Urbina. So I think that Kepler. I think you're probably right. I think he. He doesn't drink much else. But when he, like you think like some expensive wines, like what? Yeah. Yes. Because of where we are right now, you know, in. Inside the. The Other Plane, which is your podcast, you know. Yes. Talk about exactly. Exactly where. Where we're. We're bringing the two worlds together. I definitely think that Kepler is the kind of guy who like, like, knows what the best wines are or quote, unquote best. Like most expensive. Like Barolo. Yes, yes. He's definitely a Barolo drinker. He's definitely a Napa Cab drinker. But like, only very specific ones. Like Screaming Eagle. I think he goes to whatever wine store he goes to and he asks for Screaming Eagle. That's a very, like, expensive. And between you and me, overrated. Don't. Between you, me and the listener. You, me and all the people listening. People don't tell. Don't tell Screaming Eagle. I said that. But it's just like. It's just a very, like, famous, like, high end, very expensive Napa Cab. And I feel like that's what. That's what, like. I think kep1er has good taste, but he definitely, like, wants to go for the status stuff. Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah. Okay, cool. So. Okay, so that was my first question. Second question is just a little more. A little more fun. Do you have a favorite memory from the recording process of Wolf 359? Definitely a few, yeah. It was special when Mikayla came in because she was in Philly, because. Cause then it felt really like we were all together because especially at the end, we had Mikayla, we had Julian. We just had a lot more people around the studio, which, thinking of this in Covid times, it's just like, I can't believe we were all crammed into that space together. I know. I'm literally fantasizing about a time again when we can all be in a studio together or on stage together or something. So the ending was special. And the first time we recorded it was. I think it was Noah, Michelle, me, and I think Cece. I don't know if you were there. We were at Spaceman, though. We were in. I think. I think I was there. Yeah. Was that Williamsburg or Bushwick or Greenpoint? Williamsburg, yeah. So it was like one of those. Kind of more difficult to get to places because Jaren's studio was originally in Dumbo before he moved. Was that right? Yes, yes. And it was in the same building as the builders association office was. And so I. So I went. I went to that. For listeners, that's the theater company that I worked for, for. For years. And. And this building in Dumbo, it was just like I went there so many times over the course of three or four years, and I got lost every single time. Like, I could not find Jared's studio. I could not. That's. That's hysterical. Yeah. Yeah. It was not. It was one of those buildings where everything looks a little too similar. Yeah. Yes. But the first time we recorded, we were in a studio. I maybe recorded there one other time or not at all. And so my intro was that. Yes. And everybody was a little unmoored because that was like the alternate space y'all record. Maybe you'd been there a few times, but not. I'd been there. I'd been there. So Zach and I recorded a bunch of the first season there, but we hadn't gone there much. I think that might have been the first time we went back there since the first season recording. I'm not 100% sure, but, yes, it's a different space. So that was really. I mean, I knew everyone beforehand, right. To different depths. I knew Noah pretty well from working with him on a project my senior year, his sophomore year, just to date and age everyone. Yeah. Yeah. So Noah's. Noah's the youngest. Yeah. No, I knew and liked everyone, but kind of getting a feel for all of that on the first day. But I appreciate that Gabrielle and the team and Sarah and Zach, they were pretty thorough about having us work together in advance. Like, we did different kind of chemistry building kind of things, which are not the kind of things you normally do when you're working on something professionally, like, in terms of you show up and you make it happen, as opposed to. What we had was we already had an existing language. We had even taken some similar classes or had different pieces of art we can reference that we had in common. And we'd done, like, little improvisations and talked about character a lot. So. So just from day one, it was. That element was really special. The community feel of the whole thing was special. Absolutely. And I think that's. I think that's something that. That's worth mentioning. And I think that shows through is that it really was a collaborative process, much more so than other audio drama voiceover projects I've worked on have been. Not to say. Not to say that there isn't some degree of that, but. But Gabrielle was always very open to us, sharing ideas, story ideas, building characters, sharing our character ideas. I remember before every season having a meeting with Gabrielle and talking through Minkowski, and he'd have, like, 17 index cards. And it was a really unique experience. And I think that. I think that showed through. I hope that showed through. Yeah. And I think the thing about Gabrielle is, like, he's kind of the master synthesizer of all these different. Like, he would ask for feedback and incorporate some of it, but whatever he incorporated really went with whatever else was existing. Like, what. Of course, what he and Sarah both especially were keeping in their brains was massive. Yes. Yes. And I think that's. I think that's really. And you know that that's harder than it sounds to, like, if you have a vision, to then incorporate these other pieces that you didn't necessarily expect to. I, like, I know there were some episodes, especially in season three and season four, that, like, very much came about because of conversations we had or ideas that somebody had. And so that's really cool. And yet it all felt of a piece. Yeah. Gabrielle, the master synthesizer for me was kind of. I realized the depth of what he was doing when Noah and I quote, unquote, wrote our episode. Yes. And. And Gabrielle, like, like, made it sound like an episode of World 359. Like, we had a. We had a really good idea, and we put a lot of the words into the script that we ended up saying. Right. But what he did was turn like something that was vaguely resembling an episode of the podcast into something that was actually an episode of the podcast. I mean, the leap from there, one spot to the other was I could have been staring at a computer for days on end. And he did that in an after. He was like, oh, this thing just kind of like Shakespeare, like, at his typewriter, laughing. Yeah. Yeah. That's not to say it's Gabrielle's arrogant or smug. I'm not saying that. No, no, not at all. It seemed easy for. It probably wasn't even. You know, he's. He's very transparent about, like, am writing, like, doing. Yeah. Like, he's. He labors and like, all writers labor. But my point. You know what I'm saying. I definitely know what you say, what you're saying, but both Gabrielle and Sarah are so skilled at what they do that they can. They can take. Because I relate to this because I quote, unquote, wrote a couple of episodes of Wolf 359. And. And what I came up with and what ended up being the thing. Yes, there was some overlap, but they were totally different beasts. And I was just like, oh, thank God I have these people who know what they're doing. Right, right, right, right. Yes. So just shout out to their. To their immaculate skill, which is not to say it doesn't take labor, but it's. But it's definitely a skill. Okay, last question for you, Zack. Do you have a favorite episode to listen to? Or it could be a couple, or you can say no, all are fair answers. Well, I think I'm on the record With Memoria, like, when we got that grouping of scripts, it was like, All Things Considered was in there. Memoria. It was like four or five. And. And the one where Jacobi. I forget what the name of it is. The one with Jacoby and outside. Alien Jacoby. Yes, yes. Oh, my God. Noah was talking. No, the Empty man was season one, but Noah was just talking about this. I'm probably going to edit this in after my conversation with Noah and Michelle and Sarah. So, listeners, you know what we're talking about. Yeah, I'm not on my Recalling names game right now. No, this is. No, no, no, not at all. One thing we've all been saying is another thing that Gabrielle and Sarah are gifted with is remembering episode titles. And the rest of us are like, I remember Memoria. Pan. Pan. You know, like. So that was in the grouping of. I remember that table read. Yeah. Because the opening group of episodes I worked on was the beginning of season three. So the one before the one we came on was the Mayday episode with. Yeah. Solo doing the time jumps. I mean, that was amazing. And then came on, we're like, okay, reset in all these different ways. Right. But then by the time we got to Memoria, like the kind of look into mental Health, I think was. Was really special. The characterization, the humanity. I mean, the humanity in the AI is just special. And all things considered, like, all things considered was a great deal of fun. I don't even say that much in that episode. Yeah. Having y'all just, like, have your little freakouts around me was such a blast. And then Overture, like that whole. Yeah. That whole kind of run to the end of. Yeah, I think that's. I don't know if Overture is the end of season three in Memoria being. I think that's all the end of season three. I think that's kind of like the. I think so. Yes. I really just haven't. Yeah. Yeah. It's gotta be the end of season three because Michelle was still there. Right. Spoilers. Anybody who's, like, amped up about this episode of caring, though. Yeah, Yeah, I know. Is like, for sure not on that wavelength. Yeah, I hope so. I hope so. Maybe. Maybe there's some people listening who haven't listened to Wolf 3359 before. Oh. So while we're. While we're wrapping up. Yes. Should I do my plug for Wooden Overcoats? Yes, please do. Yeah. Okay. Wooden Overcoats. Some of the best storytelling, writing, acting you'll ever hear. And our friends Gabrielle and Sarah are each wrote an episode for their fourth and final season. Yes. And you know what? Our somebody we're friendly with. Beth. Beth Ayer is on is one of the stars. This. I mean, I feel like such a fan. Like, such a fan. Oh, I'm such a fan. Like, I follow them all on social media where they do other hilarious things, like with Felix Trench and his boat updates. Oh, my God. And Tom Crowley's, like, impressions, too. I don't know if you saw for a while on Twitter. Oh, my God. It was. That was like. That was like, my favorite thing. It was like, my favorite thing on Twitter for the. The duration that he did it. I would just kind of go. Go back and be like, I've seen this. I've seen this. It's still horrible. Yeah. Yeah. It's so good. It's so. But that. Yeah, that. If you don't know what that podcast is, it's a kind of a tiny village in them. On an island. A tiny island in the middle of the English Channel. And it's like rival funeral shop. Yeah. Wooden overcoats. You can make leaps about what that means. Yep. And, yeah, I'm just recommending this because I really like it. I have no personal association with it. Yeah, neither. In some ways, I'm a backer. Like, I've backed their Kickstarter in small ways. Yeah, exactly. But I wouldn't call myself an investor. I just love that show. Emotional. I've emotionally invested in Wooden Overcoats. And also, just. Just to say there is a connection. There is another connection, because Beth Ayer was in. Oh, my God, I'm gonna forget the name of it. But the Loveless Special. And so, you know, there's definitely a lot of love and crossover between Wolf and. Her name was Dr. Fourier. That's right. Dr. Fourier. And my friend Ariel Estrada was Dr. We. Yes. And Peter Coleman was. I don't remember his. I don't. I don't remember his character's name. Hi, there, future Emma here just to remind past Emma that Peter Coleman's character in Change of Mind was Fisher. Peter's amazing, and I felt so lucky to work with him on Zero Hours. So I wanted to make sure to get this in here and definitely check out Zero Hours, if you haven't already. But he. He. He was the. The. The shadow to my light in Zero Hours. So. So, so his voice sounds a lot like Zach Valenti's voice. It does. It does. The first time I heard time bombs, I thought that it was Zach, and I was like, what's Zach doing? With his voice. Cool. Turns out he was just a different person. The first time my mom listened to Wolf 359, she thought I was Hilbert because I'd played Tevye in high school and done a Russian accent for that. So she was like, oh, I assumed you're the Russian guy. I was like, yeah, yeah, sure. Just another person confusing a couple's acts. Oh, what are you going to do about it? So now we've plugged wooden overcoats, which you and I are not technically involved in, but there is. There are maybe a couple other shows that you are in. Zach, is there anything that you would like to plug that where we can hear your voice? Yes. So I've recorded a bunch. I'm doing re recording for Descendants. Yes. By Jordan Cobb. So it's the sequel spin off of Giannis Descending. Yes. She. She wrote and starred in. And we did a. At Once Upon a podcast in the Before Times. We did a. Like a kind of mini episode with some other podcasts that were doing mini episodes live at Dixon Place. And Jordan's a special writer. She's wonderful. And she's a special writer, actor, person. She can kind of. She kind of can. And she does do it all. Yes, yes. This season has been really fun to work on. I'm in it. Julia Shafini, Jordan. A lot. A lot of. A lot of audio. Audio superstars are in there. So Emma Shirjarko may make a couple. Emma Shurjarco may or may not make an appearance as well. Yeah, yeah. The piece that we recorded is dramatic to say. Yes. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. I got to record a couple. I'm a couple different characters, which I love. I love doing in these shows. And I'm also fortunate that I am hopefully working with Jordan on another project coming up, which I can't announce yet, but Jordan is amazing. Generally, we are just fans of her. Um, I do want to let you get back to studying for finals, so I will just say, Zach labresco, I'm so thankful to have you as a friend and to have worked with you on many things, but particularly Wolf 359. So thank you for making the time to stop by. Right back at you, my lord. Here's your bowl of wine. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I need it. I need it. Last but not least, here is the conversation between me, Cecelia Lynn Jacobs, who played Captain Loveless, Mikayla Swee, who played Hera, and Price, Alan Rhodey, who made all the music for the show, and the man himself, Gabriel Urbina. Who created the whole damn thing. Cece is an incredible artist of various modes whom you can hear in time bombs, zero hours and unseen. Michaela claims she has nothing to promote, but I know that you can hear her in some cameos that often also involve me in shows like the AM Archives and Arden. Alan continues to teach and make amazing music, including for zero hours and unseen Gabrielle. Well, who knows what that guy's up to. Just kidding. He is up to so many amazing things, including, as we just talked about writing an episode for the upcoming season of Wooden Overcoats. It also should go without saying, but none of this would exist without Gabriel. And he is such a giving and generous artist and collaborator. And I am endlessly grateful to him for including me and all of us in this amazing story. Thank you, Gabriel. The last thing I'm going to plug for myself is a new audio drama that you can hear me in called Wolf Whistle. In New York City in 1934, two idealistic radio hosts battle shadowy forces for the soul of America. I play Eliza Astor, one of those radio hosts, and this is one of my favorite roles that I've gotten to play since Wolf 359. There are four episodes out now and six more coming out after the new year. So it would mean so much to me if you would take a listen. Without further ado, here is the last segment of our Wolf 359 reunion. Enjoy. Welcome. Welcome to pairing. Welcome back, Gabrielle. I think you're the only one who's been on pairing before of this crowd. No, this illustrious crowd has not been on pairing. I think not. I think. Oh my God. So welcome. Cecilia Lim Jacobs, Mikayla Swee and Alan Rode. Welcome to pairing. Yay. Hello. Yay. Thank you. So glad to be here. Okay, so I'm gonna start by talking to. So I'm just gonna ask you some. Some fun little like reminisce y kind of questions about Wolf 359. And then I have a couple little fun wine thoughts and hopefully fun maybe stupid, I don't know, but. And then come the hard hitting ones and then come the hard hitting come like the real and then put you on the spot question. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so I'm gonna start with Gabrielle. And Gabrielle, I really only have one question for you. Why? No, that's something we can talk about at a different point. But my one question for you is how did you know that Chateau Petras was going to be the one that actually went to space? I'm psychic. Yeah, I thought you all knew this by now. It's starting to feel that way. No. So we talk a lot about Wolf 359 kind of having, like, its own weird little gravitational pull as a show. The narrative kind of ended up being something, I think, very different than what we thought it would be when we started the show. The characters kind of evolved on their own. Right. And lately it does seem like it's almost like it's exerting its own pressure on real life because we saw that that was kind of freaky. About two weeks ago, some, like astronomers predicted that the best place for humans to make contact with alien life would be this little known star about three, three stars away from the sun, called Wolf 359. And about a million people sent that to us on Twitter. And we all had like a very, very scary, very weird day. Wolf359, it has prophesied many things happening. And for those of you who are not sure. So Chateau Petras is a house in Bordeaux that's very, very famous. And it's a wine that is in an episode of Wolf 359. And then like a year, very memorably. Yes, yes, very memorably. And a year or two ago, they took a case of Chateau Petras to space and to try to figure out what, like, going to space would do to wine. Whoa. Yeah. Know that. Yeah, yeah. So what did it do? I was kind of like, oh, no, what am I. Yeah, sorry, I should. I should have prefaced that. But so. But yeah, it's. It's wild. It's wild. No, and I just remember, I think that that was in the third season, that episode where we had that bottle of Chateau Petras. And the thing that I remember was kind of just in the rehearsal, there being some slight, not necessarily disagreement, but just like some us being unsure about which was the right way to say it. And there were about like three possibilities. And then I just remember kind of everyone as one, like, heads turning towards you, Emma, and just kind of being like, raph, how do we say this thing? And you were like, petrus. And we were like, all right, there we go. The expert has spoken. That's how we shall say it on the show. There we go. So that is not actually my only question for you, but like, you know, we only have so much time. And so what I've been going through and asking people, and this might be a hard question to answer, but I've been going through and asking people, people like, what are some of your favorite. Or let's go with one or two favorite memories from recording. And this is for all of you as well, so just so you can start thinking about it, one or two favorite memories from recording. And, Alan, this might be slightly different for you, but I've got questions for you, Alan, and then, like, what's one of your favorite episodes to listen to as an audience member? And that might be hard to answer. And I'm sure you've been asked this a million times, Gabrielle, but no, I think that I might be able to do this. I mean, far and away, my favorite memory of recording was the final episode, because that was the one where we were all together, which was a rarity on Wolf Street 59, especially kind of those last two years. There was a little bit of fragmentation and a little bit of. Kind of. Of. We were mostly recording Michaela on her own, and we were kind of sometimes doing, like, splitting the cast in half for, like, B plots and a plot so that we could kind of, like, record some people at one time and other people at another time. And those, like, two days that we spent recording Brave New World, those were, like, the days that we had, like, absolutely everyone in the studio, and it was just the best. It was just, like, so good to kind of actually be able to have everyone bouncing off each other and getting to work with everyone. So, no, those were far and away my favorite times making the show. Yeah, it really was. And. And that's. That leads me a good segue to Michaela, because, Michaela, you were not there for most of our recording sessions. Sometimes eventually we got you in so that you were, like, calling in so we could hear you at least. But for the first. At least the first season and good portion of the second season, I was often reading her. His lines. I've told Gabrielle. I've told Gabrielle there would be a rough cut somewhere of at least the first season of me performing all the parts, because I used to read Hilbert and read Eiffel for Zach when he was doing the other characters before he started just doing it himself. So, anyway, so, Mikaela, how was it after working on this sort of remotely for a while, to finally come into the studio? And I think the first episode you came in for was Memoria. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was. It was Memoria, which is one of my favorite. One of my favorite episodes. I mean, I think it's most people. One of most people. Yeah. It's an incredible episode. And I was saying to Michelle, the two of you, it was just so fun to be in the studio there with you while you were recording that or we were all recording that. But you were the driving forces of that. Of that episode. Yeah, no, that. I mean, that episode was rich and it was deep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was really special. And I have to agree with Gabrielle, I think, particularly because I was remote for most of our series and almost all of the recording, I think, you know, coming together for Brave New World and for the finale and being in the studio together, you know, we spent a lot of hours doing that and I can't even believe the organization that went into making that happen was incredible. And it was. It was actually like, for me at least, it felt seamless. My mind was blown at how we pulled that off. But being live and hearing everyone's voices, seeing everyone together in one space, doing that was really powerful. I remember feeling really emotional. Yeah. During that I really felt really. Yeah, I felt really emotional. And I don't know, I just think all the creativity and hard work and time and spirit that went into it, the whole, just the whole process, the whole series from everyone. I think coming together as a whole team and seeing that happen at once was just unbelievably powerful for me. I think also, I will say the live show too, absolutely, for me was like, was a mind blowing kind of experience. One that I won't forget. And actually getting to see our fans, so many of our fans, live off, that was just. That was so cool. That was so mind blowing. Yeah. No, and I was talking with some other folks about the live show as well and. And I think we agreed that like, that's definitely a highlight of the experience. And part of that was that we also had to have Alan there, which, I mean, talk about the most elusive figure. No, the live show. The live show, I remember, was the first time that we had everyone that worked on Wolf 359 all together. Up until that point, there was always at least one person. Yes. That was kind of off to the side. That was the first time that everyone that worked on the show was together in the same room. And even. And even people who hadn't been on the show yet but were going to be on the show. So like Zach, Mikayla and Noah, they weren't in the show, but they were there. So that was so. That was so cool. No, I was just gonna. I was just gonna say that was amazing. It was like one of the first times for me that wolf359 just felt so real and so human having everyone there together. I mean, it was actually kind of a surreal experience. Definitely, you know, experience it. But so, but so Powerful. And Emma, I would just say, like, I know your original question was just what it was like for me to be recording remotely for most of it. And I think it was amazing because, you know, as some people know, when Wolf 359 was just starting, I was kind of moving away from some of the acting and performing I had been doing and getting started on a. On a different. Different career path and, and starting preparing for graduate school and. And all of that. And I remember feeling like, you know what? This is actually really cool. I want to do this because I think I can balance it. I think I, you know, I'm not going to be in person, but I think I can make this work with the direction that my life is moving in. Yeah. And so I will say that I think recording remotely and doing a lot remotely was in some ways, at moments isolating because I missed the group and I missed being in person. Like, the table reads were one of my highlights because I did get some group action there. But otherwise it was Gabrielle and Zach reading the other lines. I love a good table read. Love a good. The table. The table. I love. I love a table read. The table reads were awesome. But I will say that it was. It was a really interesting combination of, like, at times, sort of like, oh, God, I'm really missing the group. And also, like, it is so cool that I get to do this where I am in my life right now. And the moments between the live show and Memoria and the final. The finale, like, getting to come together as a group in person was just like, so cool. Such a gift at last. Yeah. Because also when we first started the show, I, you know, like, Gabrielle and I knew each other in college a little bit, but we'd never, like, worked together. I didn't know Zach at all, but I did know you. And we had done a couple of things, like, small things together, like theater wise, I think, at Wesleyan. So I was like, oh, cool. Mikayla's part of this. So it felt like I knew kind of what was going on. And then Cece joined and I was like, oh, I know Cece. Oh, man, sorry. Did that come out wrong? No, that was beautiful. I can't. Well, I mean, we knew each other from working on Threepenny and just because we were in a teeny, teeny, tiny theater department at Wesleyan. Yes. Yes. That's Threepenny Opera. Yes. Where Cece. Cece, you played. You played Jenny. No, no, no, not Polly, the other one. Lucy. The one who gets cut. Lucy. That's right. You played Lucy. And I was the assistant stage manager, and one of my jobs was writing out Cece's blocking for her. Yes. And I'm saying it to her. No, it's fine. In retrospect, it was like a beautiful. A beautiful thing. We hadn't really acted together. Like, we knew each other peripherally, but we hadn't really acted together. So I was so excited when you came on. And also, Loveless is such a great character. And so my main question for you, Cece, is. And this is also spoilers. I imagine most people listening to this have listened to Wolf 359, but spoilers. Everyone dies. Everyone dies. Everyone dies. But what was it like approaching a character who was technically not themself, you know, but didn't know that? I was thinking, like, I was just thinking about that the other day and, like, what it would be like to get into the mindset of that character. I just think you did it so well, and I don't know if you have any. Any little insights into the process. Yeah. Wow, that's such an interesting question. I think it's okay if you don't want to answer it, too. I can. Well, I might. No, no, no. Or the answer can do. I just. I'm just trying to remember the actual production history, because I don't think that we actually talked about that particular plot point. When Gabrielle first. When Gabrielle and I were first talking about the character, and that was, like, not something. And that Gabrielle. I don't know if you knew that that was going to happen to Loveless when you brought Loveless into the narrative. So, I mean. So. Yeah, so it's one of those things where, like, when we first started talking about it, she was the voice on the record, and that was it. Right. Yeah. And for a long time, it was kind of this. Like, she was this ghost from the past, and we worked with her on that level. And then I kind of very gingerly went, cece, how would you feel about coming onto the main cast? And you kind of went, how? And I went, I don't know yet. Maybe we could talk about it. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah. And by. And by the time you came on, we knew. By the time that you came on, we knew where we were headed at the end of season three. But we did kind of live with her for a long time before we had to continue confront that. Yeah. And I think that that's, like, a very real part of character development in general. Just that so many things happen to the life you're taking on, and they happen. And the time scales that they happen on don't match up with real time. And you are your body or your, the character that you're taking on. Like, your body is required to hold many years of experience in not that long of a time. And to get and form so many years of experience or like so many very specific moments. And also that in order for something to hit to make sense as an experience later on, there are specific moment there. Sometimes it's useful to have things that have happened to you that are not scripted, that you go and you take and you visit and you build out for yourself just so that you have some imaginative scaffolding to kind of keep you, keep you tethered to what the point, what the point of that person is. And so, so in that it, like, doesn't really matter that much. Yeah. Because you're. No, I love that because you're always like. Because you're always switching around and like, hopping, hopping through somebody else's experience in the first place. And, and there's like a core of. I think it, it also helps it. Like, I, I, I mean, like, I don't, I don't think that this is terribly exceptional, but I do think that it's important to like, speak from my experience and not from like, a generalized other people's experience because I, you know. Yeah. So bubbles clashing together, nobody knows. But, but I do think that, like, I think that it's helpful that I tend to think about people and personhood as like, that there is a sliver or a core that remains consistent the entire time. And that core can get reshaped and reformed and take different textures and take on different things. But that there's. The way that I think about people in general has kind of an essentialism to it that helps and is really useful. It definitely helps with love. Let's doing narrative characters, period. Because it helps the audience, like, trap the character. But, but yeah. And I don't, I don't know if that's like a thing that is essentially true, but it is something that is very useful. No, I think that's a, that's a brilliant insight into how you, how you build a character. And one of the things I was talking about with some other folks is like, the gift we got of playing these characters for so long. Yes. And, you know, at us and, and at a certain point, whatever point that might be, like, we as actors inform the characters because that's just how, that's just how it is, you know, with, with original. I can tell you, like, that that day was, like, approximately five minutes into day one. Yeah, no, that was. That was not, like. Oh. Years down the line, I started to, like, you know, be influenced by them. It was pretty immediate. Yeah. Okay. I just wanted to. Quick question. Gabrielle. Yes. If you had to pair one alcoholic drink with Wolf 359, what would it be? Emma, you gotta ask. Whoa. Balveny Scotch. Of course. Of course, of course. Balveny 30. Yes. Yes. I like. I like the smell of it. I like the taste of it. I like the feel of it in my hand. Come on. In your hands. Yes, of course. Yes. Yes, of course. Of course. Perfect. Perfect answer. And let's raise an imaginary glass of Balveny 30 to Zach Labresco, who can't be here, but hopefully. Hopefully, I'll grab him later. But, Gabriel, thank you so much. You know, obviously there's many more things I could talk to you about, but. And we'll talk about them later. Don't worry about it. We'll talk about them later. Yeah, yeah, It'll be fine. But thank you. Thank you so much for being here. Talk to you later, guys. You're the best. Bye. Okay, so, Alan. Alan, I have one big question for you, which is how do you come up with the track titles? Because they're so good. They're so good. Yeah. It's a great question. I guess. Honestly, it was a process that could not be rushed. There would be days I would just leave tracks. I literally just numbered the tracks. That way I wouldn't get. I very intentionally did not name them until I knew we were actually keeping them because I did not want to get attached to them. And there are so many tracks. For every track I make, there's like, three that I don't and that are just thrown away and are sitting somewhere in a hard drive that I could look back and don't particularly feel the need to. So sometimes you just wait and think, okay, let's find some sort of emotion that we can attach to it and then give it a story. And there we go. I do have to say, like, one of your track titles did inform my portrayal of Minkowski, which was. I'm gonna. Is it the ice cream one? Yes. Can you. I'm gonna paraphrase it because I probably don't remember the exact wording, but it's. It's something like minkowski enjoy or Minkowski eats a vat of ice cream while watch. While enjoying 50 Shades of Grey unironically. That was. That was it. And. And I was like, oh, my God, he's so right. That is totally a thing she would do. And that was like actually an important moment. Moment for me in realizing Minkowski's character, which, by the way, I haven't talked about this in the other. The other groups, but I just want you to know, you. You three to know that I think Minkowski has terrible taste in wine. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love her. I love her so much, but she does not drink good wine. Like, she's like really bad oaky chardonnay from California. Like, like really sweet. Yes. Like, like that is her. That is her jam and blessed her for it. Ooh, yes, yes. Greek rose. I love it. So, Mikayla, I wanted to ask you, speaking of that, do you have any. Because you played two parts also, and that's something we could talk about. But do you have any sense of what if Hira could drink? Which I think she. I think she's gonna figure out how. If anybody could, Hira could. What kind of beverage do you think she would drink? Ooh. Ah. That's such a good question. And I wanna know your thoughts on that. Just. I have an idea. I have an idea. I think that Hira has very sophisticated taste. So I think that she. Well, I think she might work up to it, but I think that, like, she, she, she takes a wine tasting course, figure figures out how. Yes. Okay, so I think, I think in the summertime. I think in the summertime, Hira. I think in the summertime, Hira drinks an off dry Riesling. Yes. Yes. And I think in. I think in the, in the winter, I think she, she drinks like a really kind of full body, some fruitiness on the finish. Like Zinfandel or like Cabernet. Yeah, Like a rich wine. Yes. With a mouthful. Yeah, that's what I think. Yes, I, I totally agree with that. Just so you know, the one that I thought of her. Thought of for her is nepiological, which is considered one of the most complex grapes wines out there. I would go buy me a bottle of this. I think you should. You deserve it. Thank you. I love that. Nebbio. Yes, Nebbiolo. If you, if you can find a langue. Nebbiolo. L A N G E G H E. Those are really, really good wines that are less expensive than, like the Barolos and Barbarescos that are also made from Nebbiolo. Amazing. Because I think Hira also likes a good deal. Yes, she does. And so does Mikayla. Yeah. Again, informing our characters, you know. Exactly. And Alan. Okay, so this is slightly harder to do because you're not technically a character. But one of the things I wanted to say is I think one of the things that really sets Wolf 359 apart and especially did at the time that we were coming out was your music. I think that it just really upped the drama, the production value, the emotion behind the audio format. So I just wanted to say that. That, you know, generally speaking, you're amazing, and we all love you, and we haven't gotten to spend as much time with you or get to work with you directly. So if you had to pick a beverage to pair with the music of Wolf 359, like, if you're just listening to the tracks, what do you think people should drink? Ooh, that's a great question. I know it's hard. I feel like it would be something that has, like, layers to it, almost like visual layers. You know, some of those drinks where you, like, layer alcohols and you have, like, different colors, some good things are weighted differently. I don't know how. I don't know how that works. Oh, my God. I don't know. I don't either. But I know what you're talking about, and I love that. I love that so much. I think that. I think that works perfectly. And. Yeah, like. And I. And I think. I mean, this is sort of a cheating answer, but I. I think in terms of wine, like, there's. There's different wines for different moods and different episodes and different tracks of the show. And so since you were talking about this a little bit, I just wanted to know, because, again, haven't worked with you as much. So what? Exactly. So the process was. You came up with a bunch of tracks and sent them to Gabrielle, and Gabrielle listened and said, I think this would work here. Is that basically how it went, or. I would actually say that was part of it. It evolved, I think, over the course of the show, too. There was a lot of just throwing tracks at it, and there were times where there were moments, like, I think Memoria we talked about. There were moments where we said, this is the script. This is what we need at certain times. So I think it depended on the episode. Yeah, sure, sure. Cool. Well, I'm just in awe of everything. Of everything you did so. And continue to do on other shows. It's just that. It's just that Wolf. Wolf is, you know, sadly not. Not making episodes for now. No, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna tease that. Right after Gabrielle leaves. I know, I know. Right? Um. And Then, Cece, what do you think Loveless drinks? I think Loveless drinks very rarely. You're probably right. You're probably right. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. I like, I think that Loveless drinks, like, specifically to further social cohesion when it forwards the thing that she cares about. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That definitely makes sense. I believe that for her, 100%. 100%. I mean, I think the last time that Loveless was, like, drinking as a part of my life was probably maybe in, like, high school. And so I think there was like a weird wine cooler moment that happened. It's funny. It's funny because I think Minkofsky is the opposite. I think Minkofsky did not have a sip of alcohol until she turned 21. Yeah. No, I think. I think Isabel Loveless, like, absolutely shocked shotgun to smear off ice in a can, like, at some point. Yeah. Like, do they even make. I don't. I. I obviously have never. Do they come? Yeah. I don't know if they make smear knock. Like, this is not my. My area yet. Yeah. But. Yes. Yeah, no, I. I totally buy that. Like, I think. I think. I think Loveless maybe has like, you know, like, opens an IPA at the end of a long day, like once every three years and drinks about a third of it and goes, I'm done now. And like, that's the end. I also. No, I. I buy that 100%. But I also think that, like, she could be the kind of pet when she does drink. She's got, like, really expensive taste. Yes. Like, no. I was gonna say, for some reason, Sancerre feels right for Loveless. She likes like a nice crisp, crisp white and. And. But just like, really savors it, you know, she's. Because she's not. She's not drinking to get drunk. She's drinking to enjoy it. Yeah, that's pretty fantastic. I also think that there's, like a lot of space, like, that's just like my. My way. Weird gut take. But I also think that, like, there's a lot, like, Loveless reminds me of wine all the time, you know, like there are various sorts of. Of things that I'm like, oh, yeah, that's a Loveless wine. Yeah. Yes. And I was really. I was. Yeah, I was like, thinking about that and I was interested in. In what you're take on that might be that love, that Loveless reminds you of wine that, like. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if Loveless was a wine. Yeah, if Loveless was a wine, I think she would be. Ooh, it's a good question. I think she would be like a. I don't know why this popped into my mind, and I might. I might change my mind. But like a Laufrankish, which is an Austrian grape. It's a. It's an Austrian grape. It's one of my favorites. But it. And it's usually like, got complexity to it, like rich, dark fruit, some spice to it, but it can vary. Like, some of them are very fruity. Some of them are much more savory or earthy. And I feel like Loveless has, as you said, like, all these different layers to. And like, she can be very serious and strict, but she can also be a lot of fun. And so I think some kind of. Or maybe like a. Like a Cote to Rhone or something. Like a wine from the Rhone Valley or something. Those can be really versatile grape range. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay, I know we probably want to wrap this up because we've been going for a while, but, um, I just wanted. Mikayla, you touched on this a little bit, but I just wanted to check in with Alan and Cece. Did you have any favorite memories from the recording process or. Alan, it could be from the recording process or from your own, you know, creative process. And then. Oh, and then a favorite episode. Uh, I guess. I mean, I've. The final episode was the first time I'd actually been in a record recording Booth, like, for 59. I feel like that was just, like a shock and awe moment for me to realize, like, oh, this is the stuff you do. Just walking in, seeing everyone so, so comfortable with this. I'm like, oh, I have a line. I had one line in it. Oh, that's right. I forgot you had a line. Yes. And it was, like, amazing. I was, like, overthinking it for, like, hours. And I was anxious about it before, after, and during. Like, oh, God, I'm gonna mess it up. Oh, God. Gabrielle gave me a line note. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. I'm ruining everything. As this terrible show is ruined. Haven't acted since I was high school. Oh, God. Yeah. But that. That was. It was impeccably delivered. Impeccably. I'll take it. Thank you. Thank you. No notes. No notes. But, yeah, definitely that experience of seeing it all come together and being like, oh, this is what's going on while I've been doing things remotely, mostly. So it's. Yeah. And in terms of favorite episode, I. I think I mentioned Memoria earlier. I think that was one of those cases where Gabriel and I really worked closely on the script and just kind of figured out the moments that musically would happen, like where the beats of the music were and where it lined up with the text. And that was very intricately done with a lot of thought, and I was definitely a fan of working on it and the way it turned out. I mean, it's a masterpiece of an episode, from writing to performance to acting to. To the. To the score. So I think. I think it's a general consensus that that is one of the most special episodes. Absolutely. Cece, do you have any favorite memories or episodes? I mean, there's so much that I loved about being a part of this whole process. Like, I love. I know I can't pick. I can't pick one. It's so hard. Yeah. And it also. It's, like, hard. It's hard to be like, oh, I loved this moment. Or, like, even, like, oh, like, I loved the process of it because it was. It was like, an integral part of my life for, like, several years. Right. Yeah. And, like. And that. And so, like, I was thinking about that and, like, listening to other people talk about their favorite moments has been really fascinating, too, because, like, just, like, being with my own self as that's happening and being like, oh, yeah, the live show, that was an experience I had and not just. And not like, my life. Yeah. Like, it was. It's been really interesting to, like, separate it out and be like this. Aren't wolf 359 during my early 20s is now an experience I had and not just a kind of functional condition of my existence, which is really how it felt. Absolutely. But my absolute. Truly, my favorite favorite parts are when. At the beginning of the seasons, I think in the earlier seasons, especially when there were not quite as many people. Yeah. When Gabrielle would, like, schedule giant meetings and we would go meet at the. At Zach's, like, bougie tech startup that he was working at and, like, meet in the fancy meeting rooms with the snacks and in this, like, sees it kitted out. White cheddar, specifically cheez Its. And gather around. And Gabrielle would, like. He'd be like, sidle up, kids, and then outline the plot points of the entire season and then just kind of open the floor and be like, who have we done dirty in this season? And that was incredible. It was. It was. It was a very much more collaborative process. I mean. I mean, you know, Gabrielle and Sarah were def. And Zach were definitely more the, like, you know, spearheading the storytelling, the writing. But we all did have input, and, you know, they Offered us, you know, the opportunity to write, which I foolishly took them up on. But no, no, it was amazing. It was amazing to right episodes and to have them very expertly edited was very valuable. But so, yeah, that was an amazing thing. It really was a collaborative process. I may have to talk with Gabrielle about this a little more, but one thing I want to make sure we say is that Gabrielle doesn't take credit for the fact that he sound designed the whole thing and edited the whole thing thing. He just doesn't. He just doesn't take credit for that. And that's a fucking amazing thing in and of itself. Yes. Yeah. So, yeah, there. And obviously, you know, the music is an integral part of that. So between. Between Alan and Gabrielle, it just sounded amazing. So. Hi, future Emma here again to clarify that Zach Valenti also did a bunch of the audio design and editing for Wolf at the beginning of the show. It was mostly Gabrielle, I believe, but by the end, Zach was doing a fair amount of it and since then has been doing some amazing work for shows like Unseen and Zero Hours. I just wanted to make sure I. I clarified that, but they neither of them take credit for it, so give them all the credit, please. Yeah, I think so. I think that really, like, my favorite things about the whole experience are. Are process notes because it is such a unique process in all of the different shows and all of the different micro mediums that I have been fortunate enough to be a part of. Right. Because I do work on a lot of different kinds of shows and a lot of them concurrently. And it just. This one really was different in like, I've never, like to have to have the creative team kind of step forward and be like, hi, I gave you a character. Like, now, please. Now here, the. Here's the experience that we've drawn for your character to have. Here's the life that we've drawn for your character to have that we're going to share with the audience. Right. But there's a whole bunch of life that you have created for this character and like, we need them to get to these. These places and like, what's missing. Please go to bat for your person. And I feel like that in. In some ways, like, that has been. I think we were talking earlier about, like, characters being. It being such a privilege to carry a character for a long time, but also like, with. With Loveless, like, I. I have this, like, symbiotic relationship where she lives as a separate person kind of in a corner of my experience. But I also remember stepping into her for big recording periods and then stepping out of her and being like, oh, my life needs more of that. Like that bravery and that commitment or that passion, you know, just like, just being able to, like, be. Be able to be like, oh, like these. As I step from Cecilia to Loveless. Like what? Like this mirror, like, gives me a good shift for. For what? A good direction on, like, where to. Where to go and. And what to bring in. And also, like, to be what not to do. Yeah. Yeah. Just like a little bit sometimes. There's lots of good lessons to be learned. And I definitely. I definitely felt that with Minkowski as well, that, like, there were definitely. There's parts of her that I'm just like, oh, I wish I could be more like that. And then there's parts of her that I'm like, I'm glad that I'm not like that. Ditto. But I think. I think that what you said, Cece, about the symbiotic relationship really resonated with me. And I was just thinking about the ways in which I obviously fed Hera, but also in the ways in which I felt really fed by Hera, by that character. So I appreciate that. I resonated with that a lot. I'm so glad. That's awesome. Yay. Well, that feels like a really nice note to end on. So thank you. Thank you all so much for being here, for being on pairing, and for sharing your Wolf 359 memories and experiences. It was just. What a gift, What a delight to be able to work on this together. And so thank you all so much for being here and for being part of my life in this way. Thanks for having us, Emma. That was awesome. Absolutely. Cheers. Cheers. Yay. Well, folks, that was it. I hope you enjoyed the Wolf 359 reunion Christmas special episode of Pairing. Thank you so much for listening. It was an absolute blast to revisit the experience we had of making this amazing show. And I'm so grateful to everyone who made the time to come talk to me about it. If now seems like a good time to re listen, make sure to join Zach as he re listens at Wolf 359 FM. Relisten. And note that the Wolf 359 Patreon is active again where you can pledge as little as $1 a month and get access to an ad free feed of the show. That is@patreon.com wolf359 radio till next time. Sherjarko Pairing was created, hosted and produced by Emma Shirjarko. With music and audio recording by Winston Shaw and logo artwork by Darcy Zimmerman and Katie Huey. This episode featured music from Alan Rode and was edited by Emma Shirjarko and Zach Valenti. Follow us on Twitter, Tumblr, Facebook and Instagram Aringpodcast to keep tabs on what we're up to. And feel free to send us any thoughts, questions, requests and pairings of your own on our website. The pairingpodcast.com via email@pairingpodcastmail.com or on any social media platform. Come check us out on patreon@patreon.com pairingpodcast where you can pledge as little as $1 a month and get access to exclusive content, customized pairings from me, live streams and more. Also check out our merch store on our website@theparingpodcast.com merch if you enjoyed the show, please consider leaving us a review on Apple podcasts and sharing with your friends. Thank you so much for listening to Pairing, where you come for the stories and stay for the wine. The fable and folly network where fiction producers flourish. This is AI reporting. He's at the Lauchong Restaurant, Changchun, northeastern China. It's spring 1997. Once it started, I'll leave him in Ming's hands. That's a joke. Ming doesn't have heads. And what do you do exactly, besides dance with strangers? I work for the postal service. You're a postman. We are. Right, Ms. Crotier? What is it? It's just a bit strange. A letter for me from Hong Kong. And there's no stamp. I need stamps to write a dead person. Yep. There's a cost. How much? A pound. A pound of flesh? A pound of you. It seems like a lot. Lift up your shot. What's that? Just hold this tube over your stomach. We are so mad. Yeah. This is gonna hurt. What? Not the very worst thing that could possibly happen. Zara, please write back. If your letter can find me here, then I think we have a lot to talk about. Saludos, Raul. The very worst THING that could possibly HAPPEN an audio drama in nine parts Produced by Wolf at the Door Studios out now. For more information, please visit wlfdr.com.