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- [00:00]
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- [01:27]
Drew Turner
If something happened and I made a mistake, chances are I am being 10 times harder on myself than how she's probably viewing this, right? And like just being able to frame it in that way helped me. It was just a night and day difference of like being able to show up as my authentic self.
- [01:51]
Katie Weber
Hello and welcome to the Women and ADHD Podcast. I'm your host Katie Weber. I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 45 and it completely turned my world upside down. I've been looking back at so much of my life, school, jobs, my relationships, all of it with this new lens and it has been nothing short of overwhelming. I quickly discovered I was not the only woman to have this experience and now I interview other women who, like me, discovered in adulthood they have ADHD and are finally feeling like they understand who they are and how to best lean into their strengths both professionally and personally.
- [02:31]
Hello, I am so excited to share.
- [02:34]
Today'S episode with you, so let's dive right in. Here we are at episode 193 in which I interviewed Drew Turner. Drew lives near Austin, Texas and was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 29, Drew's diagnosis completely changed her understanding of herself and gave her an opportunity to rewrite her personal narrative through from one of self doubt, exhaustion, and shame to one of resilience, ambition, and empowerment. After getting laid off from Tesla, Drew was suddenly tasked with managing the fear, overwhelm, curiosity, and uncertainty that comes with exploring new career options, all while determining what would be most helpful for her newly discovered adhd. Drew and I talk about the many ways ADHD shaped her life and how she's now learning to forge a path that aligns with her authentic self. Drew now coaches other women in leadership who are ready to break through their own internal barriers, transform their doubts, and lead with genuine confidence. This was a fabulous conversation, if I.
- [03:36]
Do say so myself, so I hope.
- [03:38]
You enjoy it as much as I did.
- [03:41]
Hi, Drew. Thank you so much for joining me today. So I was actually really touched when you reached out. There was something about your video or your messaging. I don't know what it was that really, I think immediately I reached out and was like, I have to hear this woman's story. And, yeah, so I'm super excited. And I think also when you mentioned that your therapist recommended the podcast to you, I was like, I find that to be one of the greatest compliments. So thank you to you and thank you to your therapist.
- [04:12]
Drew Turner
Absolutely.
- [04:14]
Katie Weber
Okay, so let's get started. So you were diagnosed last year. When? In 2023. When. Whereabouts else was the when? When was that? And what were some of the things that were going on in your life that led you to connect the dots and think you should look into this?
- [04:30]
Drew Turner
So the diagnosis officially happened, I believe, in October of last year and kind of back up a little bit here. My career has been in retail up until I made a transition. December of 2022, I transitioned to my first corporate role. When I got in that role, it was like, oh, this is different than anything I've ever done before. And I was noticing that in a lot of the conversations I was having with people, like the casual conversations, I couldn't focus on what the words are that they were telling me. And I was sitting there and I was like, I'm here. I'm in this conversation, but my mind's not present right now. And that was kind of the first kind of indicator of, like, I think something else is potentially going on here. And I actually had. I've just been. Honestly, I've been so blessed with the amount of support I've had around this. So in addition to this transition, a woman I started working with, her name's Tracy Winters, and she's an ADHD coach. And she. I did a lot of facilitating with her. She helped facilitate our leadership training. And she just kind of opened my eyes into all of the different ways that ADHD shows up. And when I first kind of started noticing these, I was like, you know, let's chat. I would love to talk to you, because she also has adhd, she also has autism. And I was like, okay, let's. I would like to get your perspective on this. And one of the first things that she told me was, hey, when you're seeking out this diagnosis, the minute that they tell you this is what's going on, don't allow yourself to think that you cheated the test and you cheated the system. And that was one of the pieces that I have heard consistently brought up on your podcast. I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so relatable on so many different levels. And that's kind of what first got that ball rolling. And I think because of, I mean, the pandemic, but also just how much information specifically on TikTok that I saw that was like, oh, that's ADHD. One of the things that I remember seeing was a lot for women, it's internalized. That's not how I would have imagined adhd, because I'm imagining of a little boy having ADHD with all this external energy. Right. And yeah, honestly, I think it took me. I went to two. I did one of the, like, online diagnosis things. They didn't think I had it. And then Tracy actually gave me a recommendation of a in person center here in Austin. And I went in person and went through. It was like three or four hours of testing, and it was like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, like noda. And it was this huge, life changing moment, as I'm sure it probably was for you too, of, like, this, like, what? Are you kidding?
- [07:16]
Katie Weber
Yeah. Oh, well, not only that, but just like thinking about how all the doubts that go through your mind too when it comes to the diagnosis. Like, did I exaggerate that? Am I really. Is it really so bad? Like, all of those questions come, you know, it's like, not only are you thinking these things about the diagnosis, but then you're also thinking about what is the origin of thinking these things. Right. So it becomes like, very meta, all these layers. And I remember even with my te, with both of my kids getting their diagnoses, I like, specifically went through the four hour psych assessments for them because I Didn't want there to be any confusion or any, you know, any doubt. Like there was for my own diagnosis, but it was still there. Like, I was still like, oh, am I, you know, am I misleading this incredibly well trained psychologist? Like, it's like, you know, I'm like, how do I even have the gall to think that? But, like, it's like just the level of doubt that I think we live with when it comes to our own view of the world is almost the diagnosis itself.
- [08:17]
Drew Turner
Totally. Yeah. And I think part of what made me really sit back and like, okay, I'm gonna. We're gonna take this as it is is because Tracy told me, don't allow yourself to think you cheated the system, because a huge interest of mine is just like, health stuff. So the minute I thought this is what was going on, I did all the research in the world to try to understand all the different elements, right? And it was like, oh, am I, am I pretending to behave this way? Because this is what I've read. And it's like, no, this is your lived experience. Like, no, like, hold your horses and just, you know, take it as it comes. And it was. Yeah, I think since then it's been an interesting experience.
- [08:59]
Katie Weber
Well, and also, like Tracy then handing to you this knowledge, right? Like, once you get diagnosed, you look around usually at all the favorite people in your life, and you're like, oh, okay, yeah, like, you can start to pick out who has ADHD in your life and whether or not do I tell them, are they on their own journey? What do I do? Right? But so it's like this ripple effect, that butterfly effect of. Of getting diagnosed and then, you know, seeing it in other people, helping them to experience it, or, you know, wanting to save them from a lot of that feeling of self doubt that you had whole life, or that feeling, you know, all of the issues and struggles that we have. But also questioning, like, one of the things I openly question on my podcast all the time is like, well, are we talking about adhd? Like, why are there so many of us? Is this not a normal experience that all women go through or is it not normal? Like, all of those questions totally are all there at the same time, that feeling of like, well, there's so many of us that are getting diagnosed right now. Is this something else or is this just a reckoning that has been a long time overdue? And holy crap, because it is so life changing. And this is what I think I always want to impart to people who are curious, you know, should I Get diagnosed. Is this really ADHD or is this just. Am I exaggerating it? Right. Like, I think that feeling, like you said, when you start to look into ADHD and read more about it, there's that profound, profound feeling of being understood for the first time. Like, it's like you connect with it so deeply that that alone should, should be enough for us. Right. I. It rarely is, but I think that should be enough to, for us to really say, like, this explains so much. Once you did get that diagnosis, what were some of those things that really stuck out to you? Looking back over your life and thinking like, oh, the, the signs were there all along. Just, we just didn't know.
- [10:59]
Drew Turner
Yeah. So, I mean, there were so many, like, starting back to when I was in gosh elementary school, I was put on my own island because of how much I would talk and how much I would over talk and knowing now that like, that's society's acceptable way for women to show the hyperactivity level. It was like, oh my gosh, what? Like, that's just crazy.
- [11:26]
Katie Weber
And like, why did nobody think that was a terrible thing for a teacher to do? I had that so many times. Oh my. You just gave me goosebumps thinking about how awful it was. How many times my desk got separated and put next to the teachers or in the hall. Like, anyway, sorry, little rant there.
- [11:44]
Drew Turner
Absolutely. I totally welcome it. I think the other element too is like, so how much did that impact how I'm showing up today? Because I did used to be extremely talkative. Now I've had co workers tell me you're a woman of a few words. And I'm like, is that how I'm really choosing to show up or is that because of all of the societal expectations that got put on me from when I was in second grade? And you know, so many other elements too, that just completely, I think, brought this level of like, anger and also grief of starting in. I want to say this was like fourth grade. I went through three different rounds of psycho educational testing because I was not retaining the information I was reading. And I went through, I think, two different rounds in fourth grade. Then I got put into a private school midway through my fifth grade year and got a personal tutor. And I was in that private school for about three years until I went into high school and went back to public. And honestly, I don't. I think that private education is something that I feel so privileged that one, my parents noticed there was something and two, that I got this extra level of help because I don't know where I would have been otherwise. And even during those, I went through two periods of testing when I was younger. I went redid testing during my bachelor's degree, actually, because I was like, I am trying so hard and I'm failing. I got my degree in biology and thought I wanted to go into medicine. And, like, I retook biochem, like, three times. And I was like, is this. Is this a meeting? Is this. Because this is just a really hard topic. Like, I don't know. And I ran back and I redid testing, and this was probably what, eight, nine years ago? More nine years ago. And it was never caught. I saw three different specialists of me not being able to get to the bottom of a paragraph and remembering what I just read. And I got accommodations for it. And like, ADHD never even. Never even crossed their minds. I think so many other elements, too come out, which is like, especially, I think more recently, like, this element of oversharing, because I think that's what I need to do in order to be able to, like, build strong relationships. I think I need to share really intimate details of myself with people to be able to build a relationship. But in reality, all I really does is off putting for the other person because they're like, why did you just disclose this huge thing to me? Right? So many other things, too. Like, I've had chronic exhaustion since I was in high school. We never knew why. Never. I've always had. I've had other health conditions, and, like, it was always blamed on those. And the minute I started taking Adderall was the first stimulant I've been on. And it was like, oh, my gosh, nightmare difference. Like, what? Like, this is the level of energy people just walk around with. Like, this is crazy. And, you know, I think the other things, too, is like, this. I think this was mentioned. I think. Pretty sure this was on your podcast. It was mentioned that, you know, this inability to trust yourself. Oh, my gosh, did I relate to that. It was like, I've had years of all this conditioning of, like, I can't trust what I'm thinking or what I'm. What my mind is telling me. So now I have to do all this work to rewrite all of those thought patterns, right? And it's like, that doesn't just happen once you get a diagnosis. It takes a lot of conscious effort to try to pivot your brain and your mindset on. Like, no, I actually can trust myself. It's just society that I can't Trust, you know, it was just an eye opening. And there's been little things every single day. Like, ever since I was living on my own, I had a roommate for majority of my life. And I think that's what helped me keep in check with, like, doing the laundry, doing the dishes, because it was a shared space with someone else. The second I lived on my own, oh my goodness. I like dishes pile up. Then I feel ashamed about it, right? And then I, you know, my laundry room is tucked away. I never walk by it, so laundry can sit in there for weeks. And then I have to redo the laundry cycle because, you know, it doesn't smell good anymore. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is wild. And it's like all of those things that, like, I just thought were. I thought everyone was experiencing that. And even, even things like level of communication, like, communication to me is really exhausting. I don't like to text a lot. I prefer a phone call because text is never ending. You just, you text and then they respond and it's just back and forth and it's just way over. It's just over the top for me. And like, all of those things, like, so many elements tie back to the adhd, and I don't even think I realized how many. And my guess is that I'll probably spend the rest of my life noticing things that are like, huh, that's probably the ADHD too. Curious.
- [16:53]
Katie Weber
Yeah. When you were talking about the not retaining information in school especially, I mean, I felt like, I often felt like I had some kind of processing disorder, even though I didn't have a word for it, I didn't know the language. Like, and so many times getting tested and having it not even be brought up, and then, you know, you being left to your own devices, then saying like, well, what's wrong with me, right? I'm working so hard. I know I'm smart, right? But like, it's just not coming together. And then straight to the depression diagnoses, right? Straight to the lower your expectations diagnosis, straight to the anxiety diagnosis. And it's just like, God, I feel like we just need to be able to connect those dots earlier, especially in school. Now you, you mentioned that you, you were the kid who didn't want to spend the night at friends houses. I thought that was interesting. What's behind that?
- [17:49]
Drew Turner
So my theory, I actually am pretty sure I'm also on the ASD spectrum as well. And my theory, there's two elements. One, with adhd, I can't unmask and therefore be able to relax at some level if I'm not in my own environment. That's what I think it is. I think the other element of it, though, is being taken out every routine and being taken out of whatever my pattern is or habit. And still to this day, like, I. I love to travel, but traveling is really challenging for me. Like, I went last year to Italy with my family, and we were there for two weeks, and we were rotating, like, a new place to stay kind of every two or three days. That wasn't enough time for me, so I slept horribly on that entire trip because it wasn't enough time to give myself acclimated to, like, the new sounds, the new light, the new environment. And I think that kind of comes from a similar place, too, of, like, I don't think I'm allowing myself to be able to, like, relax to a point where I can fall asleep or that I want to stay there. Instead, I want to go back to the environment that's similar to me. Even if this is a best friend's house, I've been there multiple times, like, no. And I think a part of that, too, comes from this level of conditioning of, like, there's something wrong with me, so I can't show anyone else that right? And constant feeling of like, someone's gonna find out I'm a fraud and someone's gonna find out this. Right? And that's. I think it aids in, like, the level of imposter syndrome I felt for majority of my career, too. But just this, like, nah, I'm not good if I'm not in my immediate environment, right.
- [19:34]
Katie Weber
Or that there's some way. One of the things that always has frustrated me about friendships especially is that feeling like, I may have done something to offend people inadvertently and not knowing in the moment that I may have done something to offend people and finding out later. And it's so funny because, like, my best friend from university, we've been best friends for 25 years, and we always. It's been years, you know, it's been almost as long since we've been in the same city. And so keeping in touch has been a difficulty because we both have adhd. And so it's like, we'll go months and months without getting in touch anyway. So we regularly schedule zooms so that we can catch up, and it works for us. And every time at the end of the call, we schedule the next zoom, and it's perfect for us. But one of the things, and I highly recommend it for Anybody who adores your longtime best friends but has a really hard time keeping out in touch because it works really well. But anyway, one of the things that we always joke about is if she is five or ten minutes late for our call or what has happened in the past is one of us got the Zoom link wrong and we've ended up in different Zoom rooms and not realized it. If, like 10 minutes goes by and I'm waiting in a Zoom room and she doesn't show up, my brain immediately goes to like, she hates me. What has happened? What did I do? This is her way of dumping me. What did I do to offend her? All of that. And I'm like, we've literally been friends for 25 years and we now laugh about it. But it's like, it just, I think that says so much about that. So some of the difficulty that many neurodivergent people have with, like, constantly just trying to navigate, am I doing things right? Like, am I acting like humans act right? And like, yeah, anyway, that was a random, long winded side story.
- [21:23]
Drew Turner
But no, I totally relate to that. Yeah.
- [21:26]
Katie Weber
Right. And also that the whole thing with traveling too, I feel, especially as I get older, like, I love traveling. I love going to new places. There's so many countries I want to visit. But I also know, like you said, sleeping in hotel rooms is terrible unless I have my pillow. And like, all of the. All of the transitions are so difficult.
- [21:48]
Drew Turner
Yeah, totally.
- [21:49]
Katie Weber
And like, how do you. How do you go easy on yourself?
- [21:52]
Drew Turner
Yeah, right, right. And I think too, like, even just you mentioning that you, like, you know, you'll sleep better if you have your pillow. Like, I'm still trying to figure out, like, what are those things that would make me feel okay sleeping in other places. Like, the only place outside of my own house is my parents. And like, that's. They've moved, I think, total of what, three times in my entire life out of my childhood home into an apartment, and now they're in a different apartment. And like, I don't know if it's the fact that they're down the hall, and that's what makes me feel this level of like, calm. But even too, when I was younger, like, that reminds me in my childhood house, we had. There's two levels, and my room and my parents room were on the second level. And they were right down, like, right down the hall for me. And for a pretty long period of time, I asked them to sleep with the door open so that I could hear whether that was my dad. Snoring or like something so that I knew that they were there. And I again, I just like totally related that to like ow. Everyone. That happens to everyone, right? No, no, no. That doesn't happen to everyone. And I'm starting to notice more and more are these like behaviors of. I don't know whether it's like just there's specific sounds that I think bring a sense of calm. Like hearing them talk downstairs is like a childhood memory for me that always made me like calm down, relax and like not have as much anxiety and like just those little even just like the sound of our wind chime, which my parents are so sweet. They refurbished the wind chime that we had in our childhood house and they gave me for my new house and I still. It fell down twice and. Have I put it back up yet? No, but while it was up, it was so calming because it was the exact sound I remember hearing in my childhood bedroom. And it was just so soothing. Right?
- [23:45]
Katie Weber
Oh, that's interesting. Maybe I'll try. Yeah. I mean for me, I. I bring brown noise with me wherever I go. It's not really from my childhood, but it definitely helps with sleeping in strange environments. But yeah, I like that sensory. The sensory element of just like the sounds probably smells too. I think like smells of my, my grandmother's house and my parents house. Like they all. There's something very, very comforting about those familiar smells. That sounds really weird. Those familiar smells, like the nice ones.
- [24:15]
Drew Turner
I totally resonate with that though. The nice ones. Yep, totally.
- [24:20]
Wix Advertiser
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- [24:50]
Katie Weber
Diagnosed in October and then fast forward to April and you got laid off. So what I'm curious, like, what were some of those experiences after the layoff that you felt really like you could attribute to adhd.
- [25:10]
Drew Turner
So I think there's a couple elements, I think. For one, I don't know if you've noticed this, and I have no idea whether this is an ADHD thing or not, but I was so I thought content. Where I was when I was working for Tesla and I was with them for Four and a half years. It was my routine. It was like, I really enjoyed every aspect of the company. Come to the layoff, I had no idea that was coming. Zero element. And the first thing that kicked in once it actually had happened was what did I miss? What were the cues that I didn't pick up on immediately blaming myself for how I was feeling so shocked and blindsided by it. And that was kind of the moment where I realized, like, I think the ADHD is having an impact on this because I'm judging myself more harshly based off the fact that I don't trust my ability to pick up on things or cues that might have happened prior. And I think secondary to that, you know, I think that just how it all happened, it was so fast and so abrupt. I didn't get a chance to say any goodbyes, any of my coworkers, and it was like, we were just done. And I think that level of abruptness, I think that would have had an impact on anyone. But for me, it was like this huge sense of. I just got hardcore rejected to the another level of extreme. And through that, it was like, oh, my gosh, like, how do I. I didn't even know where to start. It took me probably, I don't know, a week and a half to say, like, okay, we're gonna feel. We're just gonna let ourselves feel, and then we're gonna figure out how to proceed from this. And I think it was come that point that I realized, I think, for one, there is no resources available on how ADHD might be impacting your layoff experience. And I think that's something that, at least for me, through any kind of challenging situations I've gone to, I'm just. I'm a deeply curious person. It's just who I am. And I want to understand all of the different elements that are aiding in how I'm reacting to something. That's something that I think. I mean, I've been in therapy since, like, Gosh, I was 15 years old. And that's something that I think my therapist has always really helped with. And I've had a consistent therapist now, actually, through Tesla, and she's phenomenal. And she really, I think, was the one that showed me, okay, you can feel your emotions, and that doesn't mean you're going back into a deep, dark depression. You can feel your emotions, and that doesn't mean you're never going to have another happy day. And I think that element of this black and white thinking we're all or nothing, has been so consistent. And that was for sure. That was a big element that got triggered during the layoff of, I'm never going to find another job again. You know, my career is over. I'm never going to find a place that I'm happy again. And that's. I think I had had multiple sessions both with her and with my ADHD coach, Tracy, and it was like, okay, there's a part of 25% of my brain doesn't believe that's true. 75% thinks that's wholeheartedly true. So how do we get this to be a little bit more. A little bit more balance, Right? It's still okay to have that fear, because this is a really triggering thing that's happened. I've never been laid off. It was like a huge moment in my life, I think. And like, okay, how do we get this to be a little bit more balanced? And a couple of the things that I think I've noticed since then that I am totally attributing to the ADHD is. And. And autism is one routine. My routine just got pulled out from underneath me and, like, I don't know who I am without this job. So that element, I think, was huge in being able to establish, like, okay, even if I don't get up at the same time, that's fine, but we're going to do something and get involved in some types of elements, whether that's volunteering or doing anything else to where we have a routine. So with that, actually, a previous coworker posted a list of awesome resources, one of which was like a weekly job search kind of meetup group on Zoom. And that was really helpful. Like, they had different speakers. Come on. I knew Monday morning that was what I was doing. Every Monday morning, that was what I was doing. And that helped. The other element, too, that I come to realize now is getting up, going out and standing in the sunshine for five minutes or longer is huge for all kinds of things, but I think specifically for folks with adhd, because that's immediately giving you dopamine, right? And it got me to feeling like I wasn't starting my day with this dark cloud over my head is how I described it. I think the other element, though, too, though, was like this huge. Quite honestly, it was like a relief, which is weird to say out loud, but this relief of I got this diagnosis, I had been noticing things like the way that we operated on a daily basis wasn't serving me. We were a very interactive and talkative group, which was great, but it also Meant that I never got time to focus, and I never got time to put my head down and get work done. And that wasn't good. That made me feel like I wasn't doing enough. So now kind of in this process and journey of, like, what's next? I want to make sure I have that and I can set myself up in an environment where, like, I have dedicated time to focus and I have the ability to be able to disengage if I want to, while still being able to have the element to engage if I choose to. Right. Like, not being on my own little island, but also not having to try to focus on too many things at once, because I think that just added in the level of, like, anxiety and stress. I felt like I couldn't drop a ball. And then I think really the last element that impacted this was I've kind of noticed since the beginning of my career, it was really hard for me to build relationships with folks. I was a manager previously, so I just always had a boundary. I had a boundary of, like, personal, professional. If I work with you professionally, we cannot have a relationship. Especially early in my career, I noticed this element of, like, if I did have a relationship with someone, I would overshare information that I should not have been sharing that. And that was just getting me in hot water. Right. So it was like, okay, we're just going to clearly separate the two. And that's honestly, like, I really loved my coworkers, and now I don't have this internal battle because I no longer work with any of them. And I can see them. I can go to half an hour with them. I can check in on how they're doing. And, like, there's. I think that helps because now I can see there's more to life than just, like, a professional, you know, success, whatever we want to call that. And it's been nice to be able to get. Get to know people on a personal level and, like, not think that they're going to turn around and, like, something bad is going to happen out of it, if that makes sense. Yeah.
- [32:53]
Katie Weber
Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I noticed after my diagnosis, I'm curious if you did as well. It sounds like maybe you did, but, like, a lot of us feel like our neurodivergent traits become more pronounced after a diagnosis. And it's like, is it getting worse, or am I just noticing it more?
- [33:14]
Drew Turner
Right.
- [33:16]
Katie Weber
But also, am I advocating and building my life in such a way that I have boundaries that are helping me in a way? And so it's like even just that idea of advocating for ourselves and being kind to ourselves and having those boundaries, like, are really uncomfortable. Right. Like, there's so many times where I mourned the, my pre diagnosis days because I felt like I could get through things better. Right. But I was just like masking and becoming exhausted and burning out. So it's like, it's that almost that ignorance that sometimes we mourn where it's like, God, like I'm not able to do that anymore because I, I prioritize, rest and, and you know, and I have these boundaries and then I can kind of laugh about that because it's like ridiculous to not do that. Right. But it's like there is a, I think there is something about a diagnosis where it's like we do kind of mourn that old version of ourselves where we didn't know any better.
- [34:09]
Drew Turner
Totally. I completely resonate with that.
- [34:12]
Katie Weber
Right. But I do like the fact that a diagnosis, even if you're self diagnosed, really, you know, you don't have to disclose your diagnosis, especially in the workplace. I don't ever. That's everybody's choice. I don't really advocate for that. But one of the things I really appreciate about a diagnosis is how much it allows us to start saying, what do I need? What's going to make me perform better? Do I need a closed door? Like, what are the things I have? What do I give permission to myself to then ask for at work in order to do a better job? And yeah, yeah, it is, in a lot of ways it is a really great opportunity to kind of rethink a lot of that stuff.
- [34:50]
Drew Turner
Yeah. And I think really the biggest key that this has given me is truly this like aha moment. Because I, I noticed this like over sharing element since I was early in my career and I never knew why. So I set myself up in a way to like make sure that didn't happen. But I never got to the root cause of it until this diagnosis came along. And it was like, oh my gosh, this is it. This is totally it. And you know, I, you know, one of the things that I honestly, I think Tesla was the perfect company for me to be with when I was going through this is. My manager was incredible. She was probably the most supportive manager I've ever had in my entire career. And she would purposefully, for example, I. There was one week I had worked a lot of hours, I was doing a lot of training for different departments and she came up to me and purposely asked me, hey, what are you going to do to, like, get six or eight hours off of your hours for next week? And she was very purposeful about that. Because I think to your point, it's so easy. Either I'm on or I'm off, right? So I'm going to go until I'm feeling so. So burned out or I'm going to feel like I'm not trying hard enough. And I think that's something that specifically for her. Like, I granted, I hadn't had any other managers with this kind of frame of ADHD lens, but just the way that she would show up and support. And I knew if there was anything that I needed that would help me get my job done, she would advocate for it and probably get it for me. And, like, that element, I know there's so many people that exist in a workplace that don't have that. And I think she really helped me get clear on, like, okay, like, what are the things that I need, right? Like, one of which was I ended up just, like, leaving headphones in pretty much all day, because if I had headphones in, people, people weren't going to approach me because they thought I was in a meeting. And even that. And then being able to take my headphones out and being able to, like, then that meant people that I was open and they could come up to me and have a conversation, right? And being able to tailor what is the amount of effort I'm putting into things. But then also, too, to your point, if I did something wrong, I knew that she was always going to come to me and talk to me about it, and I wasn't going to have to sit there and wonder. That, I think, is the most critical part, because I knew that if there was something wrong, she would tell me otherwise. It was my ability to shut my brain down and I would know that I am not in trouble unless she is talking to me, of which case I'm not really in trouble, right? But, like, it adds that element of, like, I'm not having to anticipate what you're going to come talk to me about, right? I know that you will. And that is, I think, a big part of what made this last role that I had, like, so much more. It was a lot of work, but, like, I felt so much more calm in it because I knew that she would come and talk to me about it. And it wasn't like I was trying to have to understand someone's thoughts without telling them, you know, without having them speak it to me. And that was, yeah, like, I Think that's something that I will for sure continue to look for. Because that element of, like, being able to give feedback is so critical, especially for folks with adhd, because I knew if something happened and I made a mistake, chances are I am being 10 times harder on myself than how she's probably viewing this, right? And just being able to frame it in that way helped me. It was just a night and day difference of being able to show up as my authentic self.
- [38:40]
Katie Weber
Yeah, well, and it sounds like having a manager that you can trust to be honest and not have some weird passive aggressive subtext, which often happens to in the workplace, can be really helpful. But I think that's the great irony of accommodations in the workplace. I mean, not only does it take us a long time to even think of ourselves as needing accommodations or being worthy of accommodations, because we so often with ADHD have felt, prior to a diagnosis or even after a diagnosis, have felt like we're hiding, right? We don't want to get found out. Our laziness, our inherent laziness is going to get found out unless we cover as much as possible. So one of the things that I think is, so I work on so many times with my clients when it comes to accommodations at work, it's like this feeling like I'm asking to get away with something, right? I'm asking for special treatment because I am lazy and want to cut corners or something, and my boss is going to look down at me, which is the total opposite of why you want accommodations. Somebody is asking for accommodations because they know that these things are going to help them do their best and show up as their best self, as opposed to being a hamster, you know, spinning in a wheel, burning yourself out, right? And it's like, why is it so difficult for us to make that connection for ourselves? Which is, you know, accommodations are the best way to be the best person and the most productive version of yourself. And everybody wants that in a capitalist society, right? So it's like, absolutely. You know, it just feels like such a tragedy that so many of us feel like we just have to, like, jam it and get through and figure it out on our own and not ask for these things. And I think it's also not just us. I think, you know, workplaces also foster an environment of like, well, if I give you special treatment, I'm going to have to give Jim in accounting a special treatment. And you're like, well, yeah, let's do that, right?
- [40:33]
Drew Turner
Yeah, totally.
- [40:34]
Katie Weber
Let's accommodate everybody. But this feeling of like, well, if you're not an individual, and that's where I think also, like you said, once you start to realize who is a good manager and who are the people, who are the places and departments and environments that foster that kind of thinking, then you can realize those are the places. For me, totally those are the places I want to look for in this transitional period when you're going into the job hunt side.
- [41:03]
During the early days of my diagnosis, as I was deep into hyperfocus ADHD research mode, I kept searching for some.
- [41:10]
Kind of all in one everything you.
- [41:12]
Ever needed to know about ADHD in Women Handbook that I could reference and keep at my fingertips. But I never really found anything that suited me. That's why I've taken everything I've learned about ADHD in women and adults who are socialized as girls and I've gathered it into a concise, easy to access, self guided and self paced course so you can feel like you've got everything you need at your fingertips.
- [41:33]
Drew Turner
Tips.
- [41:33]
Katie Weber
It's called hey, it's adhd and it has everything you need to start loving your brain and living a more fulfilling, gratifying life. I built this course to be helpful wherever you are on your ADHD journey. I am so excited to finally be able to offer this course and I truly hope this will help you develop a deeper understanding of your ADHD brain and how to embrace it as you build yourself a toolkit for your own life. So head over to womenandadhd.com and get click on the hey it's ADHD course tab for more information and to get started.
- [42:06]
Now, you talked about routines after your layoff. Were there other, other kind of tricks or other things that really you felt worked for you as you were transitioning from Tesla into your next job?
- [42:18]
Drew Turner
Yeah, so there's been, I think a really big one is through this platform that I joined. It's completely free and it's. They have, I would guess, probably a hundred different events that you could go to throughout the week. And it's a completely virtual platform. And one of the ones that I got drawn to was this event called Fabulous is forged on Fridays. And this woman, her name's Michelle and she is doing they're completely free every single Friday. And she has you do this little worksheet that's like reflecting on your week. So what are your top three wins? What were your top three challenges? You know, let's elaborate on like what were you grateful for this week with the challenges pivoting it like, what did you learn and Then the last one is like a real, I think it's just true manifestation of your writing in past tense. What made this current week you're going into so great. And I started doing those sessions with her like right around the, like maybe a week or two after the layoff happened. And I can't even begin to tell you the transition I had in my mindset of no longer feeling this like eternal dread of having to find a new role and having to make sure it's in the right culture for me to be able to succeed there. But also I think there's so many nuances that come with having to try to understand non verbal cues. And I noticed this specifically with my autism assessment was if I know someone well, it's really easy for me to pick up on that. If I don't know someone well, you could be, you know, smacking me in the shoulder, telling me to like shut up and stop talking. And I, I wouldn't pick up on it unless you're telling me those words. And that was something that I think really helped me because having to try to understand all of the non verbal cues that someone's trying to give me, that is, that sounds exhausting. Like just thinking about that still sounds exhausting to me. And these new nuances of a culture and a new environment and like, oh my gosh, no. And really what these Friday sessions were able to do is I, I totally shifted my mindset from like, I have to go out and seek this to what's supposed to come to me is going to come to me and that's how I'm going to navigate this. So I spent a lot of time, I feel very lucky that I could take time to find the right role, but I spent a lot of time thinking about what's the environment I want to walk into, what's the manager I want to have, what's the team I want to work with, what is my work life balance going to look like, what's my stress going to look like? When I think about the sense of obligation I felt to every company I've worked for prior to this, what am I going to do now that's going to help me not feel that way going forward and then hopefully avoid burnout. Right. And the minute that I started shifting that mindset, it honestly was like a 90 difference. Like I went from applying to can't even tell you how many roles in April and May I was totally doing the spray and pray method I was just applying to everything I saw on site wasn't Getting any interviews. I had one in the entirety of up until, gosh, last month. And then all of a sudden, the minute that I said, okay, we're going to stop, I'm going to stop doing this method, I'm going to apply to a role. If I have someone reach out to me saying, hey, like a previous co worker saying, hey, I think this would be a good fit for you. And then I'm going to ask some questions and then we're going to see what happens. And like that pivot, it's like the minute you stop looking for something, something comes knocking on the door and you know, like knock on wood right now. But I'm actually tomorrow I have like a final round interview for a company that I'm really excited about that the culture seems like a perfect fit. It's exactly what I'm looking for from like a manager style and a leadership style. It's like probably a quarter of the workload than my prior role, which is exactly what I wanted. And it's like, oh my gosh, this is wild. And I'm walking into these conversations with a level of curiosity and trying to understand and make sure that it's a good match on both of our ends as opposed to me being fearful because I don't have a job right now and walking into those conversations with fear and like angst. Right. And it's honestly, it's just been, I mean, I'm just getting goosebumps talking about it, but like it's shocking the mindset shifts that happen when you start living in what's going to serve you as opposed to what's serving everyone else. Right. In addition to that, I'm actually just about to launch like consulting business as well that is going to be catered towards small and medium sized tech companies, helping them build cultures where empathy is the forefront of their leadership style and really building these inclusive cultures where people really want to show up and like, want to do a good job. Not because they have to, but because they want to. Because when you tap into that level of passion, like I think I got a bit of that in my last position. Like when you tap into that, I'm going to go way far and beyond what the actual call of the role is, because I believe in it. Right. It's just been such an interesting process to see what, how much changes when you change how you're approaching the exact same situation.
- [48:17]
Katie Weber
And you know, it wouldn't be ADHD without a couple of side hustle businesses.
- [48:23]
Drew Turner
Right, right, agreed.
- [48:26]
Katie Weber
Oh, you know, and I Accidentally started a consulting firm.
- [48:31]
Drew Turner
Right.
- [48:32]
Katie Weber
I wanted to ask, what is this amazing group, the Fabulous is Forged on Friday group. Is it something you can share?
- [48:38]
Drew Turner
Absolutely, yeah. So Michelle Baker is her name and the group I actually found it through, I think it's called Job Club Launchpad, I want to say, is the website. I can confirm that though, and send it to you and make sure that's accurate. But Michelle does the Fabulous is Forged on Fridays call every single Friday. It's just an eventbrite link and it's totally free. And it's honestly, through all the times I've done it, I think there's been one call where we've had one other person on it. Otherwise it's literally me and her and I'm like, oh, my God, this is just. This is life changing. And when you go through this exercise, it's. You write down. She gives specific time frames, you write down what's happening and then you say it out loud. And not saying it out loud piece, I think is so crucial because it brings back like, okay, this is actually going to happen. When I say something out loud, the chances of it happening is so much higher than if I just think about it. Right. So just her overall energy, she's a confident speaker and she's. She travels all around the world and giving, speaks to variety of different organizations on like, how to live in confidence. And like, so much of that, all of that is really mindset. Right? How do you show up into the workplace? How do you show up for yourself? And she's. Yeah, she's just incredible. She's been totally a light for me in this entire process.
- [50:06]
Katie Weber
Awesome.
- [50:06]
Drew Turner
Well, I'll make sure to have a.
- [50:07]
Katie Weber
Link to her, her work in the show notes as well. Cool. So now I'm curious, are there some of those things now as you are negotiating job interviews and also creating side businesses, why I'm laughing. It's just so adhd. We can't help it. We're so entrepreneurial. I can't help it. But like, are there some of those things now that you think, like, oh, my. ADHD is actually, you know, I'm not going to say a superpower, but is, you know, that you're like, oh, my. I really appreciate my ADHD in this moment. In terms of what makes you a great employee and a great, you know, asset to company?
- [50:52]
Drew Turner
I think there's a couple things. I love that question because I think originally, if we had had this interview back in October, I would have been like, absolutely not. There's no superpower. In adhd, this is right, because it was just a whole change, huge change curve. But I think now, honestly, I view it more so helping me than hindering me. I think for multiple reasons. I think for one, since I can remember, I always do really well in high pressure, high stress situations. And I think that's a part of why I really enjoyed retail. It was really fast paced. We had season holidays, right? And it was like three, two, one, go time. And I enjoyed being able to control something and be able to like, strategically use variety of different tools, but also relationships to be able to have something be effective and highly effective. And that's something that I think still to this day, like, I'm still planning on staying in like the learning and development field and being able to use, like, think on your feet. And truly, I think a big reason for that too is like, when I go into interviews, I don't really prepare for them at all. I research the company and I have questions that I'm gonna ask, but I don't plan on how I'm gonna answer any of the questions. I think for multiple reasons, but I think one of those is because I like thinking on my feet. That's when I'm gonna get the best result. As opposed to me sitting there trying to type out notes on, like, how I'm going to answer a question and just overthink it. Right. I think the second piece of that though is I'm curious what your thoughts are on this. I'm not sure if this is an ADHD trade or just who I am, but I take a huge level of responsibility for anything I put forth, whether that be I'm working with clients on a consulting project or I'm helping women navigate, you know, different workplace inequalities that are existent right now for women in the workplace, or I'm putting forth a training for a department that I am owning. Like, I spend so much time making sure I'm showing up in the way that I want to show up and in the way that's also authentic to me. And I think that element of the authenticity makes me. I would have never considered myself a creative person. And throughout this, like, you know, exploring side hustles piece, no, I'm actually a really great person. It's just I need the right environment to be able to show that right and being able to think outside of the box and come up with different unique solutions to a variety of different problems. I think the last piece that I think really helps me is when a big reason why I'm Also planning on launching, like, a coaching slash, also consulting business for women and helping them navigate women in leadership roles, helping them navigate all of the different workplace inequalities that show up for women. Like, how to navigate being empathetic versus now we're crossing over into being not empathetic enough and being able to hear different women's stories on how they're approaching situations and what, you know, this is what their outcome was they're hoping for, and this is not what they got. It's really. I don't want to say easy, but it's very clear to me in hearing women's stories, like, what's the root of that? And where do we need to focus our time to be able to help them resolve that? And it's almost like I can look through the weeds and focus on what's behind it, and then that solves. That's the root, and that can solve the entire situation. And I think that's something that, again, I just thought everyone had that. It's not the case. Not everyone has that. And really being able to, like, help shed a different perspective, something that I've always been a huge advocate for is assuming positive intent. And that's something that gets lost so often, especially in the workplace, of, like, assuming everyone's just doing the best they can and being able to see, like, I was able to mentor quite a few women in my last role and being able to see them really take that and put it into practice, it just changed how they interacted with everyone and gave them that level of, like, yeah, I can be kind and empathetic and still achieve the level of impact and the level of influence that I want within my organization.
- [55:31]
Katie Weber
Well, not only that, but I think there's also just that, like, ability to get curious about behavior. Right? Like, you know, that idea. All behavior serves a purpose. So even if somebody is slacking or not putting in their best effort, usually there's a reason. Like, most people want to do their best. And so if they aren't. If they're. If they're frustrated, if they're angry. And this goes for kids, too, right? Like, if somebody is sort of not showing up as their best self, there's probably a. A history there. And like, like you said, let's get to the root of why you stop showing up for yourself and others, right? Like, where is that hurt? Where is that trauma? Where what is? What led you to give up? Because I think about myself too, and, like, you know, related so much to a lot of the stuff you're talking about in, in school and my own journey in school. Like the. I, I have so much sadness for that high schooler in me who gave up on herself because she, she stopped trying because she didn't know what, how to anymore. Right. And so I feel like there's so many people out there like that who, you know, rather than just being like, oh, they're just, you know, they're just a slacker, they don't want to show up. But really, like, how do we get curious about what's behind that? I mean, I think there's an ADHD element in it because of the history that we all have and the confusion and that desire to help others that we don't necessarily, necessarily show ourselves very much.
- [56:54]
Drew Turner
Right? Yeah. Really? Yeah.
- [56:59]
Katie Weber
So that, like that, that, that empathy and that injustice, you know, like really wanting, you know, that being a justice warrior for other people. But like, how can we do that for ourselves? Maybe once, once in a while.
- [57:11]
Drew Turner
Right.
- [57:11]
Katie Weber
One of the resources I definitely am going to put in the show notes too is the Ask Jan website. I don't know if you came upon that that was recommended in our, the lounge, in the ADHD lounge code community by one of our members, Eva Shout out. But it's Ask Jan. So JAN stands for Job Accommodation Network and they are all about, it's I, I don't know what their relationship, if they are run by the ADA or what, but they have a whole section for neurodivergent workers and they have job seekers but also employees. But they have. It's such a great resource for just like, what do I need? Right. Like how do I articulate what do I need in the workplace and what do I ask for it and how do I ask for it? And they have these great tip sheets on different types of executive functioning or dysfunctioning and what are some ways to help yourself. But then also some of the things like the headphones example really sort of getting down to what's behind that and why, what's the function there as opposed to am I going to look like an awful person or am I going to be out in the boonies because it's the only way I can do work. Or like many of us, am I going to socialize from 9 to 5 and then stick around from 5 to 11 and do the real work after everybody else left or all of those things. So that's a really great website, so I want to make sure we put that in there.
- [58:29]
Drew Turner
Awesome.
- [58:29]
Katie Weber
But yeah, is there anything else that we didn't cover in terms of layoffs or the job search that you really felt like you wanted, you know, some wisdom to impart. Here I am doing that last minute. Any questions in a job interview, which we always suck at. Right. It's always like, I don't know.
- [58:50]
Drew Turner
Agreed.
- [58:50]
Katie Weber
But is there anything that you thought like that you wanted to make sure we covered?
- [58:54]
Drew Turner
I think one piece of advice is I know it's really hard to focus on mindset when you're in a dark place. That's really challenging. So one thing I would recommend for folks that are going through this transition period is just make a conscious effort to try to do something whether that's once a day, once a week, like whatever you think is realistic and then just try to stay consistent with it. I know consistency is something that I for sure struggled with, but when I would fall off, I'd say, okay, you know what? Nope. Next Monday we're going back. We're going back to that and we're going to get back on and we're going to do this again. Because even just showing up for yourself in whatever way you think will be helpful is going to do so much good. Just so much good in comparison to consistently every day being hard on yourself, like just trying one behavior that'll you feel you think might help you break through that to any degree. Like there's nothing too big, there's nothing too small and just showing up in how you need for yourself.
- [60:09]
Katie Weber
Yeah, I love that. Cool. Also, stay away from LLMs.
- [60:13]
Drew Turner
Agreed. Yeah, that too.
- [60:16]
Katie Weber
That's right. I advise anyone who's job hunting. I'm like, anything that says direct marketing, social selling, just stay away. It's not going to end well. So before we end, this has been really great. I've really loved your insights and I'm sure this is going to be a really valuable episode. So thank you so much for giving back. Right. As we always talk about, I love when listeners reach out to me and say they want to share their story and it's such this nice ripple effect that we were talking about. Right. Which is like, I want to help others. If I can save one woman from all of that struggle, it'll all have been worth it, right?
- [60:49]
Drew Turner
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- [60:50]
Katie Weber
Do you have an alternate name for ADHD that you might want to share?
- [60:53]
Drew Turner
Oh, you know, I was thinking about that. Of course I was thinking about it. And then I got sidetracked and I don't think I ever came up with an answer.
- [61:00]
Katie Weber
I don't have a good one either. I've never been able to come up with one I really like.
- [61:04]
Drew Turner
Yeah, honestly, no, I mean attention deficit, like that's just not accurate at all. It's just a matter of how we wield set attention. But I think it really too. I don't know, I think there's. There's a huge element of people pleasing in this, specifically whether that be folks that were late diagnosed. This can be, you know, both men and women. But it's like learning how to stop behaving for others and start behaving for yourself. Because I noticed that so often with myself of just I was doing everything to make others happy and then I wasn't happy. And I think a lot of that comes to the ADHD of having to be very empathetic and picking up on things like that within others. And like really ultimately all that's doing is yourself a disservice. That's not helping anything else. Because if we live in and really go towards places that are curious for us, I think it allows us to operate in a space that like we feel like we're doing good. Right. In any element. So I think there's some, there's gotta. I wanted to add some element of the people pleasing in there, but. Yeah, I don't know what that would be called though.
- [62:20]
Katie Weber
I know, right?
- [62:22]
Drew Turner
Yeah. Inattentive people pleasing or some play on that. Sure, that'll be, that'll be my answer. Inattentive people pleasing.
- [62:31]
Katie Weber
That reminds me of my. I think mine is like, it's the what's wrong with me Syndrome. Because I always say I'm like. That seems to be a common thread for all of us that so many of us who ended up with depression, anxiety, diagnoses, which is like that question that always runs through our mind, which is like, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? Yeah, well, I'm excited to see what you're going to be bringing into the world in the next few years. And I love that talking about yourself in past tense exercise. It reminded me of a group coaching assignment I once had where we were supposed to give. We were supposed to talk about ourselves five years in the future and like introduce ourselves as like where I am five years in the future. And it was so like subtle because it's not that long of a time, so it's not like this tremendous change, but it's just enough that you start to dip your toe into things that you might not have been given yourself the courage to dip your toe into. And it's amazing how that shit manifests, man. I'm amazed when I did that, the stuff that manifested out of that paragraph introduction about myself.
- [63:37]
Drew Turner
Totally. Yeah, I absolutely agree. Yeah. Yeah. Also too, I'm very excited to say that I actually do have a link in my LinkedIn if any women want to explore a career coaching and mindset work. It's just like a 30 minute intro call, but I would love to be able to help support women that are navigating a similar similar space and help set them up for success too. I'll make sure to send you. I'll send you that link as well.
- [64:05]
Katie Weber
Yeah, absolutely. I'll have your LinkedIn page in the episode show notes as well too. But yeah, anything else? Semi awesome. Well thank you Drew. Thank you for reaching out and sharing and this has been a delightful conversation. So thank you again.
- [64:17]
Drew Turner
Thank you. This was so fun.
- [64:20]
Katie Weber
Yeah.
- [64:20]
Drew Turner
I hope everyone finds this helpful to some degree.
- [64:30]
Katie Weber
There you have it.
- [64:31]
Thank you for listening and I really hope you enjoyed this episode of the Women and ADHD podcast. If you'd like to find out more about me and my coaching programs, head over to womenandadhd.com if you're a woman who was diagnosed with ADHD and you'd like to apply to be a guest on this podcast, visit womeninadhd.com podcastguest and you can find that link in the episode Show Notes. Also, you know we ADHDers crave feedback.
- [64:55]
And I would really, I really appreciate.
- [64:56]
Hearing from you, the listener. Please take a moment to leave me a review on Apple Podcasts or Audible.
- [65:02]
And if that feels like too much.
- [65:03]
And I totally get it, please just.
- [65:05]
Take a few seconds right now to.
- [65:07]
Give me a five star rating or share this episode on your own social media to help reach more women who maybe have yet to discover and lean into this gift of neurodivergency and they may be struggling and they don't even know why.
- [65:19]
I'll see you next time when I.
- [65:21]
Interview another amazing woman who discovered she's not lazy or crazy or broken. But she has ADHD and she's now on the path to understanding her neurodivergent mind and finally using this gift to her advantage.
- [65:33]
Take care till then.
- [65:37]
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