Ella Fielding: Creativity, chainsaws, and redefining ‘adulting’

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Women & ADHD
Host: Katy Weber
Episode: "Ella Fielding: Creativity, chainsaws, and redefining ‘adulting’"
Date: September 2, 2024
Guest: Ella Fielding, sculptor and chainsaw carver

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Main Theme

This episode centers on artist Ella Fielding’s late-diagnosis journey with ADHD, her reflections on childhood and education, and how neurodivergence has shaped—rather than hindered—her creative and professional life. Katy and Ella discuss the challenges and strengths of living with ADHD, with particular focus on creativity, self-acceptance, and redefining what it means to be an adult.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ella’s Path to ADHD Diagnosis

• Accidental Discovery ([04:04]-[08:55])
  Ella received her ADHD diagnosis at 38, nearly 20 years after being diagnosed with dyslexia at university. Parenting and increased career demands made her old coping mechanisms insufficient, prompting her to seek answers for her struggles with tasks like email and organization.
  • She initially sought support for dyslexia and was referred to the “Access to Work” UK program.
  • During coaching sessions, her coach (an ADHD specialist) repeatedly mentioned ADHD, which led Ella to seek an assessment.
  • Quote: “She keeps saying my ADHD…I just don’t have ADHD. And she was like, ‘Oh, it’s just that you do.’ …And suddenly was like, I have to get diagnosed immediately.” (Ella, [07:10])

2. Overlapping Diagnoses & Masking

• Experience at University and Earlier Labels ([09:28]-[11:12])
  Ella was recognized as dyslexic in university and never made to mask at home, thanks to her supportive parents. The “strange dichotomy between, 'You mean, everybody isn’t like this?'” became clear only after diagnosis.

  • Quote: “All through childhood…now all of it is really quite there…But I was clever and kind…I just kept being put in good situations and would change the environment.” (Ella, [09:49])

• Katy’s Reflection on Masking: ([11:12]-[13:13])
  Many women only realize retrospectively how hard they were working to compensate, especially when parenthood adds pressure.

  • Quote: “Part of masking is…compensating…as a clever person, you had to compensate for things that weren’t necessarily easy for you.” (Katy, [11:12])

3. Redefining Adulting & Self-Acceptance

• Letting Go of Expectations ([13:13]-[14:05])
  Ella’s journey toward accepting strengths and limitations, especially as an entrepreneur where the expectation to “do it all” can be overwhelming.
  • Quote: “I can do great other stuff. That's just not the thing I do…not feeling bad about it because I can do other good stuff.” (Ella, [13:55])

4. School Years and the Right Environment

• Struggles with Standard Education ([15:19]-[22:09])
  Traditional academic settings proved challenging; Ella found success and engagement in alternative, creative courses.

  • Quote: “I left school at 14 because it wasn't working…It got to year 10 and it was just really obvious it was not going to succeed or get anywhere near my potential.” (Ella, [15:36])
  • Her educational success blossomed in a college setting that valued creativity and practical arts.

• Katy’s Reflection:
  Many ADHDers experience difficulty in academic settings and mistakenly identify as “dumb” or underachievers due to mismatch, not lack of intelligence.

5. Strengths of the ADHD Brain

• Evolutionary Purpose & Creativity ([23:02]-[26:15])
  Ella and Katy discuss the evolutionary advantages and creative strengths of neurodivergent brains.
  • Quote: “ADHD is amazing; it’s also annoying…there’s too many people that have it. It is an evolutionary choice to keep it in.” (Ella, [23:02])
  • Spatial reasoning, hyperfocus, and resilience are highlighted as skills, with deficits only becoming apparent in misaligned environments.

6. Navigating Artistry and Chainsaw Carving

• Discovering Chainsaw Art ([27:08]-[32:54])
  Ella describes choosing hands-on artistry over academic writing at university, being drawn to chainsaw art’s immediacy—the match for her ADHD.

  • Quote: “My thoughts feel a bit like sneezes. If I don't catch them, they're gone…It's a way of working that's really fun…immediate.” (Ella, [31:35])

• Client Collaboration & Enjoyment ([32:54]-[36:11])
  Each commission is unique because it is based on the client’s story, preventing boredom or repetition—a crucial factor for her ADHD brain.

7. Structure, Motivation, and Avoidance

• Creative Workflows
  Ella thrives on committed, time-bound projects with clients, whereas self-directed or at-home projects languish without external deadlines ([36:11]-[37:27]).
  • Katy parallels with her own writing process, highlighting the need for structure and accountability for ADHD success.

8. Professional and Personal Growth Post-Diagnosis

• Self-understanding, Trusting Intuition ([37:27]-[42:30])
  Diagnosis led to increased self-awareness, understanding how her work is “mindful” by necessity (chainsaw carving requires total attention), and greater trust in intuition.

  • Quote: “I think I'm getting better at being faithful to my feelings and trusting myself.” (Ella, [41:03])
  • Tasks previously associated with shame are now approached with curiosity—“Why am I avoiding this?”

• Reframing ‘Adulting’ ([44:11]-[45:48])
  Katy and Ella question societal definitions of ‘adulting,’ advocating for a redefinition: “Why don’t we define adulting as intuition, curiosity, passion, and playfulness?” (Katy, [44:11])

9. Household Balance and Support

• Partnership Dynamics ([46:11]-[47:46])
  Both celebrate relationship dynamics that reflect acceptance and division of labor without shame or resentment.

10. The Nature of ADHD “Struggle”

• Redefining Struggle and Embracing Strengths ([49:06]-[53:18])
  There’s a shift from confusion and self-blame towards understanding, energy management, and improved mental health.
  • Quote: “I would spend so many times thinking and looping and looping, beating myself up…I've just saved so many calories,…the amount of energy I'm just not using just from that alone is like…” (Ella, [52:25])
  • Discussion on whether ADHD remains a disorder once shame is stripped away and supportive systems are in place.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [07:10] Ella Fielding:
  "She keeps saying my ADHD…I just don’t have ADHD. And she was like, ‘Oh, it’s just that you do.’ …And suddenly was like, I have to get diagnosed immediately."

• [13:55] Ella Fielding:
  "I can do great other stuff. That's just not the thing I do…not feeling bad about it because I can do other good stuff."

• [23:02] Ella Fielding:
  "ADHD is amazing; it’s also annoying…there’s too many people that have it. It is an evolutionary choice to keep it in."

• [31:35] Ella Fielding:
  "My thoughts feel a bit like sneezes. If I don't catch them, they're gone…It's a way of working that's really fun…immediate."

• [41:03] Ella Fielding:
  "I think I'm getting better at being faithful to my feelings and trusting myself."

• [44:11] Katy Weber:
  "Why don’t we define adulting as intuition, curiosity, passion, and playfulness? Like, that’s adulting."

• [52:25] Ella Fielding:
  "I would spend so many times thinking and looping and looping, beating myself up…I've just saved so many calories,…the amount of energy I'm just not using just from that alone is like…"

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• ADHD Diagnosis Journey: [04:04] – [08:55]
• Overlapping Diagnoses & Masking: [09:28] – [13:13]
• Redefining Adulting & Entrepreneurship: [13:13] – [14:51]
• School/College Realizations: [15:19] – [22:09]
• The Evolutive Nature of ADHD and Creativity: [23:02] – [26:15]
• Discovering Chainsaw Carving & Artistic Process: [27:08] – [36:11]
• Structure, Procrastination, and Motivation Insights: [36:11] – [37:27]
• Post-Diagnosis Change and Self-Trust: [37:27] – [42:30]
• Reframing Adulting & Household Balance: [44:11] – [47:46]
• Is It Still ADHD When You’re No Longer Struggling?: [49:06] – [53:18]

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Resources & Where to Find Ella

• Ella’s Portfolio & Social Media:
  • ellafielding.com
  • Instagram & TikTok: @EllaFieldingSculptor
• TV Appearance:
  • “Woodland Workshop” on Discovery Plus ([54:06])

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Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, warm, and introspective, often shifting between humor, vulnerability, and moments of mutual recognition (“I feel seen for the first time in my entire life”). Both Katy and Ella maintain an encouraging, optimistic outlook, while also being frank about the ongoing challenges of living with ADHD.

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This episode will resonate with anyone (but especially creative women) navigating late ADHD diagnosis, grappling with the definition of “adulting,” or questioning how to structure work and life to honor their neurodivergent strengths.

Transcript

[Katie Weber]

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[Ella Fielding]

Mostly I'm working on the subconscious that's going on all the time. And my conscious is sort of coming in and out and so I have to just trust that if I have a feeling or, or a thought, I just have to trust it. I think I'm getting better at being faithful to my feelings and trusting myself.

[Katie Weber]

Hello and welcome to the Women and ADHD Podcast. I'm your host, Katie Weber. I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 45 and it completely turned my world upside down. I've been looking back at so much of my life, school, jobs, my relationships, all of it with this new lens. And it has been nothing short of overwhelming. I quickly discovered I was not the only woman to have this experience. And now I interview other women who, like me, discovered in adulthood they have ADHD and are finally feeling like they understand who they are and how to best lean into their strengths, both professionally and personally. It's wonderful to be back with another new episode, so let's get right into it, shall we? Here we are at episode 190, in which I interview Ella Fielding. Ella is a distinguished sculptor based in Surrey and London with over 15 years of expertise in chainsaw carving. She has created monumental installations at events like Glastonbury Festival, and she is one of the featured master crafters on the Woodland Workshop, which airs on Discover Plus. Ella and I talk about her diagnosis of ADHD at the age of 38, which came 20 years after her diagnosis of dyslexia in university. We discuss Ella's academic experiences, her artistic journey, how she discovered chainsaw carving and how she realized her ADHD brain is fundamental to her creative process. We also talk about how our imaginative, intuitive and curious, neurodivergent brains can really shine when given the opportunity, rather than feeling like we are less than because of those things, tedious administrative tasks that tend to be more challenging, and how maybe it's time to start redefining the term adulting. I really enjoyed my conversation with Ella and I hope you do too. Well, Ella, thank you for joining me today. I have been really looking forward to this interview ever since you reached out. I'm so thrilled that you found the podcast. So let's get started. How long ago were you diagnosed and what was the process leading up to that?

[Ella Fielding]

So I was diagnosed in December last year, so I'm a newbie to my knowledge of brain and it was clearly glaringly obvious, but I didn't know. Once I realized I was like, I have to be diagnosed immediately, I have to find out insulin, understand, which is.

[Katie Weber]

Kind of hard in the uk, right? I mean, yeah. What was the turnaround there?

[Ella Fielding]

Well, I was crumbling, so I just. I went private and luckily my mum and dad helped me out and so I went private, basically just to speed up the process. So it was actually really easy. But then the next bit is just harder, getting all the, like, linking up with the NHS afterwards and stuff. So it's a bit convoluted that way, but I needed that knowledge and I needed the. That information. So. So, yeah, but it was a funny one, actually, because the reason I ended up discovering it is so I was crumbling. I was sort of like, I was saying, I felt like I was. Because basically I've got young children, like seven, I've got two, like five and seven. And so my career was going well, is going well, and my. And I have Children and whatever it was that was happening before wasn't able to be like whatever coping strategies I or however I'd functioned before wasn't. I wasn't able to apply. And so it's just been over the last seven years where I was like, felt like I was like. I could only liken it. Which is a funny analogy. You'll see. Why is it was like holding all the washing and like just all. And like socks keep dropping out or something. You're like fingers are full to the brim, you know, but. But obviously I don't really do the washing so it's sort of a stupid thing to have as analogy. But anyway that is what it felt like. I was just like, I just, you know, it's like to my fingertips is that hanging on. And I was like told when I was at uni that I was dyslexic or I found out because everyone at art school is and I thought I'd ask and find out and turns out I was or am or whatever and I was like I can't seem to do adulting this work thing and managing work and like getting my commissions and organizing it and doing all this stuff. And I was getting to the point where I was like, I felt like I was having an out of body experience, was watching myself on strike and I couldn't get myself to move and it was just repeating. Well I kept saying it to other people like but I just can't reply to my emails and it's just so frustrating. And I sort of was like oh, it must be the dyslexia. So I reached out to the dyslexia hotline which is, I think it's a UK one. But anyway I thought I'd just call them and ask and be like in university you have assistance for like essay writing and stuff like that. There must be like an adult version of like how you do business or how you run. I don't know, whatever. I don't know whatever it is. There must be someone that gives you advice as an adult for that same thing. And they suggested I go to Access to Work, which is a UK thing where if you are disabled or neurodiverse you shouldn't be penalized or in your work situation you should be able to. There should be other ways of bringing you up to the same level as able bodied or whatever people in other ways. It's a government thing where they give you training or computer, they facilitate you in some way or whatever or if you had a wheelchair or we had some Kind of way that you needed to get to and from work. They would pay for the transport, whatever. So they did. They gave me coaching. And the lady who was coaching me happened to be an ADHD specialist, but I'd gone for dyslexia. And so every time we chatted, we'd have this chat. She said, you know, with your ADHD and stuff, kind of. She said about five different times. And I was like, it's so awkward. You keep saying my adhd, but I just don't have adhd. And she was like, oh, it's just that you do. And I was like, do I? She was like, oh, my God, ladies. Just like, everything you've said is that it's not this. It's not that. She's like, you're in paralysis. You're like, and this is why this is happening. And I was like, oh, my God. Oh, God, yeah, of course it is. And it suddenly was like. I was like, oh. Oh, right, okay. Yep, that makes complete sense. And then I. And then I was like. And then I suddenly was like, I have to get diagnosed immediately and find out the next step was like, oh, so, yeah, it was accidental. But, yeah, she just kept saying, oh, you know your adhd. And I was like, anyway, now I can see why.

[Katie Weber]

Right, well. And I. I've talked about this so many times on the podcast, too, how, like, my therapist would mention gently over the years that I should look into it. And I was kind of, like, insulted in a way almost. Right. Because I had such a misguided idea of what ADHD was. And so I had no idea why she kept suggesting that I look into it. And I was always sort of like, why do you keep going on about that? Like, that is obviously not my issue, but I'm surprised, like, given a. You know, if you. Were you officially diagnosed with dyslexia in art school?

[Ella Fielding]

I was.

[Katie Weber]

And nobody mentioned the overlap.

[Ella Fielding]

No, no. But it was 20 years ago.

[Katie Weber]

Oh, all right.

[Ella Fielding]

There is. I am still of that generation where. I mean, it was only at university, and it was because I found out you get free computers. And I was like, ah, see if I'll ever go and see if I am. And I was like, oh.

[Katie Weber]

Oh.

[Ella Fielding]

That was. I mean, I left school at 14 because it wasn't working. And all through childhood, there was like. I mean, you look back now and all of it is really quite there. Yeah. But at school, it wasn't working, but I was clever and I was kind, and. But then the situations were wrong and it sort of. And as soon as I was in the right environment, I mean I was really lucky because since listening to podcast I've had so many reflections and I think one of the, because my mum and dad were really bad that they sort of didn't pick up on it. And I've really come to the realization that I literally did not have to mask. So I just didn't occur to me. I just at home and actually out of home, like I wasn't the issue, it's the environment or the situation or I was never made to feel that at fault. So I think they did a bloody good job because I'm happy and I don't have hang ups that I am it, you know, I just, it just never occurred to me. Yeah, I just kept being put in good situations and I would change the environment and find the way that I would. So I would access the way that I could study well or I would find. And I've always managed to find jobs that are like, I don't know, I just not haven't had the pressure. There is a way that you're supposed to be.

[Katie Weber]

Yeah, well, that's what I think is so complicated about masking too, right? Because I think part of masking is like you said, like compensating, right. All the ways in which as a clever person, you had to compensate for things that weren't necessarily easy for you. And so while you weren't like really, you know, feeling like you were trying to get by or you know, hide yourself, your true essence or anything like that, there is a way in which we come at, especially with an adult diagnosis where we have to start asking those questions like how much was I struggling? Oh, wow. Yeah, like that I was struggling a lot, right? Or you know, just those ideas that, that strange dichotomy between, you mean, everybody isn't like this. And then also seeing like, oh my goodness, I finally feel seen for the first time in my entire life. Right. And really coming face to face with the fact that you didn't feel seen and actually acknowledging that because I think that's a lot of ways that we are sort of treading water so much that we don't even give ourselves time to acknowledge those issues, right. Those compensations. And so I think that that's also part of masking too, right? Which is you're working so hard and then as a parent, all of a sudden your kids come in and it's such a shit show that you' like why am I so exhausted all the time? And then people say things like, well, You're a new mom, right? Or you're, you know, all those things where it's like, oh, lower your expectations. And that's why I think it gets really difficult in terms of those expectations of ourselves. Because, you know, you'd said like, you're incredibly talented artist, and yet immediately you were like, but I suck at email. Right. So there's always that thing, those expectations of yourself, like, you should be both. Right. And like, where does that come from? Why do you feel like you need to be an adult when you're doing so well at all these other things? I'm totally like coaching you right now. Right. I'm like putting you on the spot. But I think it's about. I think there's a part of masking that comes down to those expectations of ourselves. And like, where do those come from?

[Ella Fielding]

Yeah, for sure. And I think that is something I'm working on a lot in permission or acceptance of things that you're good at are not. Because, like, for instance, as a creative. Right. I absolutely, absolutely have no expectation that I will suddenly rock at accountancy, nor would I expect someone who is in that field to be able to suddenly create a sculpture. And I would never expect them of it because that's just not the way they're wired. You don't make stuff like that because you work in this way. And equally that's the same with the way that all of the different brains are. And so I think I've become much more confidently being like, no, that's just not like, I can do great other stuff. That's just not the thing I do. I'm not. That isn't the way I work. And sort of feeling better at permissing myself and not basically not feeling bad about it because it's just I can do other good stuff.

[Katie Weber]

Yeah, I feel like the expectations on entrepreneurs are a lot crazier now than they were, you know, 20 years ago as well, in terms of like, we have to be our own social media managers and we do have to do all of this, like self promotion and there's so much hustle involved. And I don't know if it's always been this way, but it feels like the amount of skills that we have to feel like we need to have in addition to whatever it is that's like our essence that's driving us is insanity. And I think of why so many of us as entrepreneurs, like really burn out so quickly because.

[Ella Fielding]

Yeah, because you're having to do every job by choosing that path, you've actually chosen to do all the jobs you don't.

[Katie Weber]

Yeah. So now you mentioned leaving school at 14 but, but also having parents who were very accepting. So I'm curious like looking back over the course of your life and, and having those aha moments about those signs were there all along and you know, it was obvious to everybody but me and all of those realizations we have like what are some of those things that really stood out to you being being ADHD traits that you most related to?

[Ella Fielding]

I was obviously overwhelmed at points within secondary primary as well. But I think primary is more fun and fluid and you can kind of be focused on a bit easier and I think it's more self directed in secondary and like first year I went to one school and I just, I just went in and was like I don't, I'm not sure I can navigate this. It's not really working and I don't really know how to manage it. And so I left that school after a year. So I left that school and went to another like voluntarily. It wasn't, they didn't. The school weren't aware of it but I just could feel it was not working. Went to another school and was there for three years was okay. Ish but I don't know, it just didn't really feel. Wasn't really in the room. I was going out a lot to parties and like raving and just doing stuff that was a bit more older than my years and again so I was like school's boring, I don't want to be here, it's annoying. And so I was very disinterested and disengaged. There was a few people who were like no, you've got it. We like you. Like the art teacher was very nice and there was other people that kind of got me but other people just had assumed I was not very nice or didn't, I don't know that I wasn't really worth the bother. And then it would just get a case where I'd just get blamed for stuff that I genuinely hadn't done. I mean I would also get blamed stuff I had done and I would stand outside and get told off for it. But if they would get told of stuff I hadn't done I was like I'm not standing around and waiting for the pleasure of being told off for something I haven't done. I'm going to go home because this is unfair and unjust and I'm leaving. It's just such a toxic environment and they, their additional needs area was a Desk in a room that no one used because they just didn't have any concept of anyone having any dyslexia or any needs tools. So there just wasn't any kind of understanding of that at all. And it got to the end of, like year 10 and it was just really obvious it was not going to succeed or get anywhere near my potential. And so Mum and. But all the while, like, me and mom were having a rocky road. Mom took me to, like, ceramic classes. Me and her did this ceramic thing. And Mum was like. When I was like 10 and she just. This lady was amazing. It wasn't like one of those paint your number, you know, it was just like she had a studio and she had a kiln so I could just take clay and make stuff. And my mum said, like, she was just astonished or I'd just go from nothing and then suddenly make a head or like, suddenly make a whatever. And it was nice to see that I could do stuff so I could do stuff with my hands. But it just. The school setting wasn't working and Mum had found out. Mum and dad had heard about this course at the college nearby that was for school refuses or, like, people who, like, had left school and not attained any gcse. So she spoke to them and asked if I could go in, but early. So I sat at the year. I should have done my GCSEs, but I went to that college instead. But it was like I became evangelical about education. It was like night and day. I went in and I was like, oh, this is so much fun. I was like, oh, everyone should learn. It's really great. It's so good you get to do. I know this is like. Would just bang on about it to everyone, about how great learning was and how fun it was and how we should all do this more often. It was just like being in this environment where, you know, I was respected, that they were respected. It was just this. We're humans. Like, it just felt this strange. I don't know, rules for rules sake was difficult. And when they felt illogical and pointless and authoritarian just for the sake of hierarchy, I just thought that just was seriously frustrating, which, as you probably know, it's pretty, pretty obvious that that is a fairly fundamental ADHD trait.

[Katie Weber]

Right. And very much my experience too. Yeah, Just, you know, really. But also not you. Until I was diagnosed, feeling like I had been this lifelong learner, right? Like, I was always interested in getting certifications and changing jobs and reading and, like voraciously learning, but always because of my ABYSMAL relationship with academia and school and university. I just thought I was dumb. That was just the label I had put on myself. And so it's so interesting, like, looking back at how, yeah, like, learning and curiosity, I think, is central to who we are. But, you know, it's so tragic that I think so many of us identify as dumb, you know, because of a learning disability that we may be. We're labeled with. Or just feeling like I couldn't get it, you know, like, just never that feeling of, like, what was wrong with me? Why couldn't I do this? What was this? You know, or being told that you had potential and not knowing what that meant and all of those things, like. But at the end of the day, like, really just, you know, it's wonderful that you had that experience. That was not my experience with high school.

[Ella Fielding]

You know, I actually have more degrees than I have A levels because I actually could only end up. I did it in such a weird, like, staggered way that in the end it was. And I had such a body of work for art school. And luckily Mum and dad were like, look, just get math and English. Just don't worry about the rest. Like, do, you know, just get those down and then you can move to the next step. You just can't otherwise. And so I knew I was like, okay, right, I can manage that. I can just like, focus on those ones that just got to get them done and then, you know, I can go on to the next level and. But also by being in a college setting as well. At 15, I had this, like. I was like, play school. I was like a dark room and this plaster room and all of these facilities that were not prioritized in secondary education generally, because art is generally the thing that is, like, they kind of just go, oh, you can have 10 minutes or an hour of that or whatever. Yeah. So I got to choose all the ones that I just thought were really interesting and inspiring and it was just. And thereafter, I've just had such a fun time in education ever since. So it just still had never occurred to me because I kept doing the things that I really like doing. And I was allowed to and never pressurized to do stuff because it was logical. I just was allowed to study and learn and enjoy things because they made me happy. And then by doing that, I accidentally found my job. So I think by being truthful to the things that bring you joy, often you end up being the best you and finding a way of finding a job that's the best skill you have or Finding the things that suit you best.

[Katie Weber]

I feel like ADHD in terms of the diagnosis, is it a clinically significant disorder? Right. And so one of the things I'm thinking about a lot now as I'm back in school and thinking about diagnosis and looking for traits is the idea that, like, if I was in an environment that was completely amenable to my brain, would I have clinically significant disorder? Probably not. Right. But would I not have ADHD anymore? You know? And so I'm like, are we talking about this brain that sometimes flourishes and sometimes really struggles depending on our expectations or our environment or. So is that the ADHD or is the ADHD the struggle that comes when you're in an environment that is miserable and all of a sudden you fall apart? Right. And so that's. I don't know. I don't have an answer to that.

[Ella Fielding]

That's the thing, unfortunately. A lot of the focus talks about what is not good. But it's a skill. It's a bloody great, amazing skill. And like, it is. I was talking to someone recently about this how, like, there's too many people that have it. It is an evolutionary choice to keep it in. There is a reason. Like, same with dyslexia. It's an evolutional choice. I can't say that word clear. It is an evolutionary choice. Whatever. Like, our reading history is a dot of our evolution.

[Katie Weber]

Yeah.

[Ella Fielding]

And prior to that, the skills and the benefits of dyslexia and adhd, the spatial awareness, your ability to, like, hyper focus, your ability to like, go from one place to another and seek new interesting things, your stamina to do above and beyond what some other people can do. It would make you above and beyond others. But I was talking to this psychologist, I've just started working with this psychologist who specializes in creativity. And I think we're going to work together and like, map out, see how I work when I'm working and see how you operate. But she's also looking more into how in the next five to seven years into like, how neurodiversities interplay with creativity and stuff. And some things she said to me was, people that flip, their letters are often better at spatial configuration. And so because like, she was talking about this guy that does dry stone walling and she was saying, like, because he can work out, this stone will fit in this section. And, and it's to do with the way that your brain flips things and understands spaces. And so you look at it like, ah, he flips his letters, but actually he's bloody amazing at working out how you build this thing and how you do that. And actually that's just a byproduct that just emerges in our Western or modern way of operating. But actually it's just a separate thing. So I think ADHD is amazing. It's also annoying. And there's things that, like, if I was living in a forest where I had to be, like, managing myself on the land and whatever, and I didn't have to deal with my accounts and my bookmaking and my emails and whatever else, I don't think I've even had a clue. I'd have just been quite happily going along. And it's only because there's these, like, things that keep getting layered on top that then go, okay, I don't have anything left of me. And then it became I needed to seek that knowledge just culturally as well. Like, I'm sure different cultures experience it differently based on what we prioritize, what we see as good, not good, and how we treat each other. And, you know, so depending on where you are in the world probably is also why there's like a difference in like, rates of diagnosis or whatever. Because of those pressures.

[Katie Weber]

Yeah, right. And why I feel like I'm always asking that question, like, is this ADHD or am I just an angry feminist living in a capitalist society raging. Right. Or all of the above. Yeah, but no, all. Everything you said I absolutely agree with, and I think it's fascinating. I think it's the people with ADHD who are having these conversations about, like, all the different connections. Right. And this rapid fire. The rapid fire connections you had said. What, what did you say? You were like, my, my thoughts are like sneezes. Yeah, but that, those rapid fire connections that we have in conversation, I think, you know, that's such a. It's such a telltale way of like, what I, you know, when you're talking about this stuff and you're just like, feel like that guy with the red string all over the wall, and then there's people who are like, in it with you, and then there's other people who are just sort of like, blink, blink. What's happening right now?

[Ella Fielding]

Yeah.

[Katie Weber]

Okay, so I want to go back to uni and like the first time you touched a chainsaw, or maybe it was before uni, like, walk me through that.

[Ella Fielding]

So I was really lucky. They don't do it anymore, but I was in the last year of my degree where you could either do a dissertation or, or work with a practicing artist and keep a journal. And I was like, I keep a diary and hang out with an artist. I think that sounds like a lot of fun. I'll do that then. And my parents had taken me to Glastonbury festival a few times when I was younger. And I remember seeing this tree and creature that all been carved out of chains that were out of massive trees, that each leg was a lot of tree and it was huge and it was stomping on a real submerged car and like a big trowel made out of wood and was like planted this acorn. And I remember seeing it when I was about 13 or something. I just sort of like it was there, parked dunk. And then when they said you could work with the practicing artists, I was like, I have no idea why. I just thoughts emerge and I like all the subconscious stuff's been doing this and then it just goes and pops up. And I don't remember the thinking logic, but I was like, I'm going to find out who made that thing that I saw five years ago and go and find out who they are and hang out with them. And so I hunted them down and asked if I could hang out. And actually I worked with two different artists. So I worked with one guy who was really lovely guy, lived in the land, like in this kind of stretch tent thing. And he was so calm and very methodical. You take the bark off completely before you do anything. And I was like, okay, cool. I worked with him and had a go and stuff. And then I worked with this other guy who was like, right, what are you doing? He was like. And just everything was like, nah, don't take the bar, carve. It's a waste of time, we're cutting off anyway, right. And he was just like dressed as a pirate. It was just amazing. Right, your turn, have a go. And I was like, oh, okay, all right then. And so I had a go and was like, oh, this is amazing, this is so much fun. And I liked his way of working, which is a lot more haphazard. Not haphazard, yeah, just fast paced and intuitive and kind of that way of working. And actually ended up. So we became good friends and I ended up working with him quite a lot in the beginning. And also then from that experience I came back to university to do my final project, which was in London and was like, right, so I'm going to do chainsaw grabbing for my final piece. And they were like, what? Okay. So they had to find me a space in the car park, which is hilarious because there was these like Buses combined, you'd just be like, just peek up above and you see the top level. Okay. And I started getting wood lopped up to London and stuff. And. But, yeah, it was so much fun. And, I mean, I did not have a clue what I was doing. I was using a blunt saw, and I was. I mean, it was just a complete mess, but it got me. And the understanding of, like, this is a way of working that's really fun. It's a very direct. I have a thought, and the action has happened immediately. And so that could sing about, you know, my thoughts feel a bit like sneezes. If I don't catch them, they're gone. You know, they're like, oh. You know, and it's disappeared. And so I found loads of other ways of working were, like, ceramics. I love the immediacy of, like, squidging earth together and making something. But then I would maybe have changed my mind by the time it come out, the first firing, and then you've got to, like, wait. And then you're like, I don't know what I'm doing half the time. And it's. It's too. It was too slow a process to be able to realize the thoughts. It wasn't sort of immediate enough. And so I like things like welding, because you could go, I wonder if this would look cool with this. Okay, there you go. And so it's a similar kind of process like that. But, yeah, once I found out that you could do chainsaw carving with wood, I was like, okay, that's really amazing. And it was. And also, it's just. It's one of those really weird ways of making that seem to bypass. Like, if you said a painting is a lot of money, people go, oh, it would just be difficult to spend that much money on something. And it seems to be that maybe the materiality, the physicality of the wood, I don't know. It seems that there's people that seem to connect with that way of making and commissioning that way of creating artwork that they wouldn't connect with otherwise. And so I have found that I am able to sustain a living in a way that I don't think I could. If I'd have been another type of maker. I mean, I might have done. But I am able to live off my art and somehow it works.

[Katie Weber]

Yeah, that's interesting. Like, the artistry and the skill is not necessarily up for debate. The way it might be with other medium. Medium.

[Ella Fielding]

Yeah.

[Katie Weber]

Yeah. So interesting.

[Ella Fielding]

I think it's because it's in front of you and it's like, directness that people are like, okay, fine.

[Katie Weber]

Well, and it's at the scale, too, maybe. I mean, you just look like you're having so much fun. You look so badass when you're doing it, too. Like, given how, you know, like, so much of what you were just saying in terms of the other media, the ADHD is woven through. Right. In terms of, like, the slowness or. So many of us have difficulty when it comes to, like, hobbies or, you know, the. The idea of, like, getting 95% done and then never finishing things. Or do you struggle with, like, doing the same things over and over again? Or is there a lot of malleability in this. In this medium?

[Ella Fielding]

Yeah. So I don't do the same thing over and over again. I'm very much a case of, like, I don't at all. I just can't. But I love people. I love stories. Like, I. I've always found, like, I love people. And hearing that I hate only. And I'm talking to you now about myself, but generally I don't enjoy talking about myself overly, and I love talking to people about them a lot. And I love collecting stories and people and, you know, and I. When I was younger, I really had. Well, I had a. I had a whole network of old ladies I used to go and have tea with, and I was about 10. I'd be like, see you later, Gladys's. And I'd, like, go around, and I just, like, love looking at all their trinkets and their store, you know, and they're hearing their stories and stuff. And I have to say that's pretty much what I do in my job. Because people say I want to have this. I'm like, okay, cool. But it's not shopping. Okay, let's think about this. Like, let's pull you into this sculpture. Sculpture. Show me your house. Show me your things that you've created over your lifetime. Like, show me a spoon handle that you just think is awesome. Or, like, I don't know, tell me something about you or, like, where you are, whatever. And. And it would just be something in that learning about them will show me, like, a pattern or, you know, an image or come out that I'll be like, okay, you said you want an owl, which I will do, but I want to bring in all the other bits. And then it's personal. It's about them. And it's interesting for me because I don't know what it's going to be. And we'll come at it together, and it is that collaboration and that kind of, like, it needs to be something that has that at its core, I think. And it's kind of that connection. And unless I have that connection, it feels flat, and so it feels so joyful like, that I get to do that with other people, and I think that's where I find the interest and the excitement and stuff. So it never is the same because the person is always a different person and their stories are different and why they've come to it is a different reason. And, like, the connections as well, that I end up having almost all my carvings, I end up, like, having a big hug afterwards because it's such a personal journey. We've gone on that psychological. This kind of collaboration of togetherness sort of thing. So it's. Yeah, that's how I think I find the. It's always exciting and interesting because it's always different. But I have also learned I'm not very good at doing things at home. It's the intensity of knowing they're there, because I often go to people's houses, so I work on a tree that's in their garden. So it has a time frame. I need to do it within this time frame. I've agreed what I think, how long it will take roughly. And there's that tempo, and then at the end of that tempo, it's the end, and then I leave. And so it's kind of sustainable for that time. I have learned over the years how it works, and then it's. It's a. It. It's a benefit. But, yeah, if I. I'm. I would be a bit. I don't think it'd be very good if I had my own yard and I was, like, flouncing around because I. I just put things off. Yeah.

[Katie Weber]

And it's so interesting how, like, we intuitively set ourselves up in those ways without really realizing why it works or what that need is. It's just sort of how we do that. And I think about that with my book, too, because I've shared this before on the podcast. But, like, when I wrote my book, it was like a timed contest where there was like, you got your money back from the class if you finished your book. And it made perfect sense. Sense now in retrospect, because I was, like, challenge accepted. Right? Like, I was like, but if I had not done this, if I had not had this structure, I would have been sitting around being like, I should write a book for years. And that's where I am right now. Yeah. But those things where you're like, oh, I didn't realize that was all adhd and sort of having to now go back and see it in like the fabric of your life everywhere. Right. Has your process changed or has your, has anything changed for you just in terms of, I mean, obviously a lot changes after your diagnosis, but is there anything that comes to mind in terms of either professionally or even just like as a parent or relationships? Or is that like another three hour conversation of like, what are some things that you feel like have really have changed for you in this last half year?

[Ella Fielding]

I found it so fascinating. Fascinating. Just like looking at myself like a person I'm studying, so kind of being like, huh, that is why I do that. Like, you know, and just why I have ended up like the job I do. Like, I cannot say, like, the way of managing yourself and your symptoms or whatever is like, you know, movement is really good for you and like, you know, you can't necessarily meditate in the same way another person might, but you can do it through an action. I literally do that all day. I have to think, yeah, only about the saw and like, where it's going, what it's doing. So I realize I am like giving myself like a brain massage like every time I do a carving because it's like so mindful. It's like you cannot think of anything else. You are in that moment and that is what you're doing. And But I also know I don't because it's, that is, that's how I have to work. I, I, I have never really done things that have to be exactly like the picture because I don't want to have to keep stopping and being like, oh, right, yeah, yeah, you know, so I do a drawing, but actually it's for the client, it's not for me. Like, I've got it. So we've agreed, like, what it'll be. But I have to say all the time, like, this is flat. This is not, it's obviously in the round. And then I will, I will have to work out how that works. And I now see why I have done that quite intuitively where I'm like, I always leave it really open so that I'm not controlled and I can just feel and flow and learn what is going on with it. And yeah, I think that's a really important process and I now see why I've prioritized that quite heavily. You need to take time.

[Katie Weber]

Have you ever had a commission client who's been a nightmare in terms of their expectations or anything?

[Ella Fielding]

No. I've never really had anything particularly that bad, but I've got better at my communication and just double checking that we're on the same page. And so because I can say think of a spade and you can think of a spade, we are probably picturing two completely different looking ones. We both said, yeah, yeah, it's got a handle, it's got this whatever. But how you envisage it and I envisage it is completely different. So unless I've like mapped it out within reason and said or, or explained, it won't be exactly what you think it is. You know, that was probably more the case before, but no, and I think I would say I'm, I'm, I think I am very intuitive. Like I get a senses quite quickly of people and if I feel uneasy, I won't work with them because they're just because it's such a personal thing. If I don't feel it and I don't believe in it, I can't. And if somebody's not very kind or the way that they're talking is not very, it doesn't feel nice because it takes a lot out of me as well and it's sort of like it won't work. So yeah, I trust my gut a lot. I trust it more now because I realize that mostly I'm working on the subconscious that's going on all the time and my conscious is sort of coming in and out and so I have to just trust that if I have a feeling or a thought, I just have to trust it. I think I'm getting better at being faithful to my feelings and trusting myself.

[Katie Weber]

During the early days of my diagnosis, as I was deep into hyperfocus ADHD research mode, I kept searching for some kind of all in one everything you ever needed to know about ADHD PhD in Women Handbook that I could reference and keep at my fingertips. But I never really found anything that suited me. That's why I've taken everything I've learned about ADHD in women and adults who are socialized as girls and I've gathered it into a concise, easy to access, self guided and self paced course so you can feel like you've got everything you need at your fingertips. It's called hey, it's ADHD and it has everything you need to start loving your brain and living a more familiar, fulfilling, gratifying life. I built this course to be helpful wherever you are on your ADHD journey. I am so excited to finally be able to offer this course and I truly hope this will help you develop a deeper understanding of your ADHD brain and how to embrace it as you build yourself a toolkit for your own life. So head over to women and ADHD.com and click on the hey, it's ADHD course tab for more information and to get started. For so many of us too, we have that really, really strong intuitive response to a lot of things, but we have stopped trusting ourselves.

[Ella Fielding]

You can logic it out.

[Katie Weber]

Yeah. Or just, you know, what's wrong with me? Everybody else is thinking one way. So I'm looking at this completely differently. What's wrong with me? Right. And that always seems to be the default in terms of our inner narrative. And I think, you know, that's been a tremendous change for me personally is just that feeling of like, oh, no, like you were right all along.

[Ella Fielding]

I've just, I just realized that, like, I don't need to know why, I just need to know that's how it feels. So it's okay, you know, And I think, I think all of us could do it doing that, to be honest and just trusting. If you have a sense of something, like it doesn't make logical sense, but just trust it. And you know, and actually I almost always prove right that it was the right decision. So I think, yeah, I think that has changed mainly. And I think also I realize now why I'm not feeling very good with my email or whatever. And like now I can see, like, I've got better at going, okay, I'm ignoring this one. What is it about it? Okay, pick it out. Rather than just being like, you're an idiot, you're, you know, feeling bad about it. I'm like, okay, something about this is challenging me in a way that's making me put it procrastinate. And why is that? And what is it about it? And I think because now I understand what the procrastination is. It's like overwhelm and anxiety because of, I don't know, the way my brain works. Like, instead of going, why are you doing it? I'm like, okay, looking at it from an outside being, like, what is that about? That? It's because I know for whatever the reason is. And I think having that knowledge is to what the motivation is behind a feeling is so empowering because you then can stop trying to be like, why? And then just be like, okay, that's just how it is. And then what am I going to do about it? And I'm just not wasting the energy beating myself up. And then I'm looking At it going, okay, I need to acknowledge why this one is making me feel like that.

[Katie Weber]

Right? Yeah, absolutely. That's, you know, my mantra is that this is information, right? This is. This is to. All behavior serves a purpose. So what is this? You know, as opposed to immediately going to that place? And I would challenge us. Like, you know, at the very beginning of our conversation, you were like, I'm not very good at adulting. And you were clumping in adulting as being, like, emails or washing or accounting. Like, when did that become adulting? Why don't we define adulting as, like, intuition and curiosity and passion and, you know, playfulness. Like, that's adulting. Right.

[Ella Fielding]

I should have caveated it with the boring adulting that is the. Or whatever. The admin. Adult admin.

[Katie Weber]

Right. And so there's a part of me now that, like what I'm like, of course you don't like that. Right. You know, one of those things that I credit it to Casey Davis and the fact that her radical ideas about, you know, housework being morally neutral. Right. And that there's like, of course you don't like this stuff, Right. Like, why would you. How. You know, And. And now I look at my. My disdain for some of this stuff, even though it has to get done, especially as a parent. Right. You have to do all this crap. But there's almost like a pride I take in hating it, right? Because I'm like, okay, we're on the right track. The fact that I. This is awful. It just means to me that I don't have, like, the bandwidth for this because I'm concentrating on all the amazing, fun stuff. And so I'm like, okay, everything is where it's supposed to be, as opposed to ever feeling bad that I hate. You know, that it's.

[Ella Fielding]

Yeah.

[Katie Weber]

Terrible. Or that I hate it.

[Ella Fielding]

I have noticed, though, that, like, my brain is amazing at being tricked. If I put on a podcast or if I, like, my hands just do stuff. It just happens. And I'm like, if I just forget to even think that thought and then put on the podcast, put the headphones or whatever. But if I remember to do that and then put them on and then, like. And I'll just put them for ages, and I'll turn around and be like, oh, my room seems to be quite clean. That's amazing. You know, But I just have to remember to remember to put on a podcast, put my ears on and be like, get down. But I'm lucky. Like, my husband's amazing. We've got a Very. He's. I'm never made to feel bad. We. We have our skills and neither of us makes each other. It just is. It just works really well. He'll just be like, there's your washing. Could you do something with it, please? It's kind of got higher and higher, like, okay, gosh, probably put it away now. Yeah. There's no guilt tripping, so, yeah, I'm very fortunate in that situation. But occasionally he'll be like, can you. And I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I should. Okay. Right. I'll focus on being that now and I'll put on headphones.

[Katie Weber]

Yeah, Right. Yeah. I. I feel like that's been a huge change, too, which is just feeling like I can appreciate everything that my husband does without feeling guilty about the fact that I'm not doing it right. Because I also now see all the things I'm doing, and I never used to pay attention to all the things I'm doing. I would only pay attention to the things he was doing because I didn't want to do them. And so I was so grateful for the fact that he did them that I ended up immediately feeling bad that I didn't also do them. And now I'm like, thank God you do that. Because, you know, and I bring all of this other wonderful. Who knows what I bring. But I'm sure it's great because he's stuck with me for so long, but I'm like, I'm not even going to question what I bring. I'm awesome. Right? And I just like, the ability to be able to say things like that without irony, I think, is. I absolutely thank my diagnosis for that.

[Ella Fielding]

Yeah. 100. Well, I think that's the thing. It's like, I mean, you know, within our household, like, he just likes doing all that stuff. And I was like, I've given you your life's work. That's what me being here has done. You love organizing and tidying, and I have provided you a lifeline.

[Katie Weber]

Go me. Right.

[Ella Fielding]

I'm so generous.

[Katie Weber]

Well, I knew this would be a lovely conversation. I'm so glad. Thank you. Now, I'm curious, given some of the, you know, some of the things we were talking about earlier about adhd and, like, you know, because that's sort of now, four years into my diagnosis, that is a question I ask myself a lot, is like, I'm not struggling the way I was when I was diagnosed in. In many of those same ways. And so what does that. But do I still have ADHD or Am I, like, shifting into more of this idea of, like, a neurodivergent brain and, you know, really, like, expanding my. My definition of what are we even talking about here? Which I've always been asking, but, you know, again, where it's sort of like I feel like I've got more systems in place and less shame and all of that. So would I still be. You know, would I still even be diagnosed? I don't know. But I'm curious if you had an alternate name, did you come up with something? Have you thought of something that you would it.

[Ella Fielding]

I did, and I lost the bloody piece of paper that I wrote. Classic. But I was thinking, though, that it was like, for me, it feels like unpredictable motivation and focus. So, like, unpredictable sort of misdirected attention sort of thing. So it's sort of like. It's just. I can't predict exactly what my interest would be or what the focus might be or when I might be motivated to do it. So it's that kind of. Yeah, I don't know. I. I came up with some acronym that was not very pleasing. But, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I. Like you've said before, the. The ADHD line is. Is now known, but I still don't think it's. I mean, I've had so many different experiences when I've said to people I. I haven't even told. Well, I've told some people, but. But you go, really? I would never have thought of you. I'm like, firstly, you don't know enough. Because, I mean, it's like a bloody blinker now. You know, what I do and how I operate. And then other people I know have told people, and they're like, oh. And they're like, no, no, no, I'm not. I'm. I'm not sad about it. Like, it's not like a. I'm not like, I'm not dying. I'm fine about it. I'm really happy. I mean, I cried with happiness when I got told because I was terrified just before he said it, because I was like, if it's not that, then what the fuck is it like? And so when he actually said it, I was like, I just wept with relief that, like, I get it now. I get it. And now I understand it all, and it is lovely.

[Katie Weber]

Yeah. And, yeah, I just. Now I feel like I need to kind of go back a little bit and say, it's not like, I don't struggle. I do not want to end. I don't want anybody to think that they hear me saying, like, positive vibes only. You know, like, I'm certainly. It's not that I'm not struggling. I still have rejection, sensitive dysphoria all the fucking time. I mean, like, really, I procrastinate, I have anxiety. All of those things are still there. I think just a lot of the struggle that I associate with that is the confusion and the frustration and the. The what is wrong with me questions that I don't have anymore. And so maybe it's just I'm redefining what struggle is. I don't know.

[Ella Fielding]

Know.

[Katie Weber]

But anyway, I. I've never fallen into the ADHD as a superpower camp for that reason, because I feel like it's. There's. There's a lot still there.

[Ella Fielding]

I would say. Like, I think with the. The energy output is like. I think there's always an assessment of, like, is there going to be more of me at the end of this task or less of me? And some jobs make me more full and some of them make me less. Yes. And so I think with. Even so. Even just understanding that anyway, and people, you know, if seeing this person, is there going to be more of me at the end of it than less? You know, there's. There's kind of people that fill you up and there's people that take all of you away. And. And I think understanding that and being like, all the thinking of those thoughts are taking already too much away. You know, just by taking away the thought of why I can't think, like, this is saving so much capacity to then allow you to then go, okay, that's why I'm doing this or whatever, you know, you're not just that I was. I would spend so many times thinking and looping and looping and looping, making. Beating myself up and stuff. And it's like, I mean, I've just saved so many calories, I don't know what. You know, it's the amount of energy I'm just not using just from that alone is like, so no wonder anyone who's diagnosed feels like a bit less tired and a bit less depleted because you're just not wasting all of that time or at least, you know, then how to direct that energy and when not to and when to save it and that you need to kind of treasure it and how you can use it and, you know, when to sprinkle it around sort of thing. It's like, yeah, I think it's just understanding, like, how to best portion yourself off.

[Katie Weber]

Yeah. Oh, very well. Said, well, thank you so much for having this conversation with me, Ella. It's been so wonderful. And this is, you know, like when you talk, when you were talking about commissions, I was thinking about this podcast too, because that's what I love the most. Right? Like, I will never get tired of asking these questions. And if I had to make a podcast in order to do it, then that's what I did. Right? Because I'm like, I just want to talk to people. But it's just, it really is. Was so wonderful. So I'm so glad you found. So thank you. And then in terms of your work, it's Ella fielding.com and also Ella Fielding, sculptor on Instagram and TikTok. I'll put links to all of that in the show notes. Is there anywhere else that people can find you or work with you?

[Ella Fielding]

There was a TV show called the Woodland Workshop, which you can find on Discovery plus, and there's like three series of that, which I did, which is good fun. So you can see me wielding my chainsaw and making things.

[Katie Weber]

Awesome. Well, thank you again. It's been a real pleasure.

[Ella Fielding]

Thank you so much. It's been such a lovely one. Thank you.

[Katie Weber]

There you have it. Thank you for listening and I really hope you enjoyed this episode of the Women and ADHD podcast. If you'd like to find out more about me and my coaching programs, head over to womenandadhd.com if you're a woman who was diagnosed with ADHD and you'd like to apply to be a guest on this podcast, visit womeninadhd.com podcastguest and you can find that link in the episode Show Notes. Also, you know, we ADHDers crave feedback and I would really appreciate hearing from you, the listener. Please take a moment to leave me a review on Apple Podcasts or Audible. And if that feels like too much and I totally get it, please just take a few seconds right now to give me a five star rating or share this episode on your own social media to help reach more women who maybe have yet to discover and lean into this gift of neurodivergency. And they may be struggling and they don't even know why. I'll see you time next. Next time when I interview another amazing woman who discovered she's not lazy or crazy or broken, but she has ADHD and she's now on the path to understanding her neurodivergent mind and finally using this gift to her advantage. Take care till then.

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