Women & ADHD Podcast – Episode 205: Jen Fry: Setting Boundaries & Saying No

Host: Katy Weber
Guest: Jen Fry
Date: January 5, 2026

Episode Overview

In this powerful and relatable episode, host Katy Weber sits down with Jen Fry—educator, speaker, PhD in sports geography, and author of I Said No: How to Have Boundaries and Backbone While Not Being a Jerk—to explore the challenges and necessity of setting boundaries, especially for women with ADHD. They dive into topics like people-pleasing, burnout, hyperfocus, time blindness, and the guilt and resentment that can follow over-commitment. The conversation is packed with practical wisdom, real-life anecdotes, and moments that will resonate with anyone struggling to say no and prioritize themselves.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The ADHD Journey: Diagnosis & Self-Understanding

• Jen’s Path to Diagnosis:

  • Jen shares she’s always exhibited ADHD traits but is self-diagnosed, now at age 45.
  • Reflects on missed opportunities for early diagnosis due to stigma and misconceptions during her youth.
    • “My coach was like, do you think you should have Jen tested for ADHD? And my mom was like, no, she’s just a really active girl.” (03:07 – Jen Fry)
  • Discusses reluctance to pursue medication, especially as a professional speaker.
    • “My biggest fear with adding medication in is I wouldn’t have the opportunity to figure out how my brain works in front of a crowd of a thousand people.” (04:48 – Jen Fry)

• ADHD Strengths & Challenges:

  • Both Jen and Katy describe embracing their ability to hyperfocus as a “superpower,” but recognize the downside: time blindness and difficulty switching tasks.
    • “Once I am down the rabbit hole, it will take God himself to pull me out.” (03:50 – Jen Fry)

Career Pivots, Learning & Speaking

• Patchwork Careers as Strength:
  • Jen details her journey from college volleyball coach to sports geographer, noting that ADHD often leads to seemingly random but ultimately interconnected career moves.
    • “That’s the wonderful thing about ADHD. It’s like all these seemingly random paths that all connect into this patchwork quilt of our life.” (05:00 – Katy Weber)
• Becoming a Thought Leader & Speaker:
  • Jen’s entry into public speaking emerged from her expertise in race and sports and her experience helping others navigate social and cultural conflict, especially during the Colin Kaepernick protests.
  • She emphasizes developing skills first over chasing payment, highlighting the difference between commanding a team vs. an independent audience.
    • “If you lead with, well, I want to get paid, how do I do it, you are going to risk your reputation for taking an early check when you’re not good.” (09:32 – Jen Fry)

Knowing Your Worth & Setting Professional Boundaries

• “The Market Sets Your Value:”
  • Jen warns against letting external messaging distort expectations about payment, reminding audience that the market—not the individual—sets speaking rates.
    • “You could say you’re going to charge $30,000 for a keynote. You can say I’m worth that. The market will tell you I’m only going to pay $2000.” (12:55 – Jen Fry)
• Intentional “Yes” vs. People-Pleasing:
  • Taking free speaking gigs can be strategic if it brings value beyond money (videos, new audiences), but Jen insists on intention:
    • “I don’t feel like it’s people-pleasing. A, I’m deciding what work I’m doing. B, I’m deciding what value.” (15:41 – Jen Fry)
• Resentment as a People-Pleasing Alarm:
  • Both Katy and Jen discuss how feelings of resentment signal a lapse in boundaries.
    • “If there’s resentment in any of this, then you’re people-pleasing. And so, like, look for the resentment.” (18:46 – Katy Weber)

Why Boundaries Are Especially Tough for ADHDers

• ADHD, People-Pleasing, and Over-committing:

  • Jen identifies the drive to say yes as stemming from wanting to prove capability and manage others’ expectations.
    • “They want to be the end all, be all to everyone to prove that they can do it all. And so what better way to prove you can do it all is by saying yes to everything.” (20:16 – Jen Fry)
  • Family and social pressure often override boundaries—a small no can escalate into constant badgering.
    • “When you do set a boundary... people are habitual line steppers. They will consistently step over the line.” (21:00 – Jen Fry)
    • “When you are consistently saying no, people will keep badgering you and that’s where folks get exhausted.” (21:28 – Jen Fry)

• The Hidden Challenge: Saying No to Yourself

  • Both agree one of the hardest boundaries for ADHDers is managing their own impulsivity and boundless enthusiasm for interests or commitments.
    • “It’s a full time job pulling back in terms of my own enthusiasm and my own desire and my own ideas.” (27:49 – Katy Weber)
    • "I was looking into flying lessons, right?" (27:26 – Jen Fry)
  • Accountability partners (Chief of Staff, spouse) are critical for enforcing boundaries and holding them to budgets or schedules.

Being Kind, Not Nice

• Weaponization of Niceness:
  • Jen distinguishes kindness from niceness: kindness is rooted in respect and self-advocacy; niceness is compliance and self-effacement, often to keep others comfortable.
    • “Niceness gets weaponized... to keep us submissive. Kind means you, you self advocate, you have boundaries, you stand up for yourself.” (43:03 – Jen Fry)
• Real Work Consequences:
  • The myth: Being nice gets you promoted. The reality: It often just gets you more work without recognition or advancement.
    • “Niceness has not gotten women a promotion. Niceness has got a woman way more work with no title upgrade and no salary increase.” (47:58 – Jen Fry)
  • Assertion comes with consequences, but is worth it for personal integrity.

ADHD, Authenticity, and Living Unapologetically

• ADHD Diagnosis as a Mask Remover:
  • Both host and guest discuss midlife ADHD diagnosis as pivotal in unlearning people-pleasing, perfectionism, and the pursuit of universal likability.
    • “I actually feel like an ADHD diagnosis for me, really helped me get to that point, which is like... how much I wasn’t living authentically, how much I was masking.” (53:00 – Katy Weber)
  • Jen encourages women to remember: "You are worth it," even though setting boundaries feels "hard as hell."
    • “You are worth learning how to handle people, pushing back and being habitual line steppers. You are worth just saying no. Even if it’s... you just sit in your office and do nothing rather than do that thing.” (54:08 – Jen Fry)

The Courage to Pivot

• Jen teases her upcoming books: one for parents navigating conflict in youth sports and one about the courage required to make bold life pivots.
  • “Folks talk about pivoting, but they don’t talk about the mouth courage. You need to leave the thing you know, to go to the thing you don’t know, and you have no clue how it’s going to work out at all.” (55:21 – Jen Fry)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Time Blindness & Hyperfocus:

  “Once I am down the rabbit hole, it will take God himself to pull me out.”
  — Jen Fry (03:50)

• On Professional Value:

  “You could say you’re going to charge $30,000 for a keynote... The market will tell you I’m only going to pay $2000.”
  — Jen Fry (12:55)

• On Resentment and People-Pleasing:

  “If there’s resentment in any of this, then you’re people-pleasing. And so, like, look for the resentment... a flag for you.”
  — Katy Weber (18:46)

• On Boundaries & Family:

  “You’re trying to say no to one person. Now you have to say no to six people and text messages and emails. And that’s where people don’t understand how hard it is to start setting boundaries because of all the other pressure and badgery in some aspects that occurs.”
  — Jen Fry (00:00, restated at 22:44)

• On Niceness vs. Kindness:

  “Niceness gets weaponized to us to keep us submissive... Kind means you, you self advocate, you have boundaries, you stand up for yourself.”
  — Jen Fry (43:03)

• On the Myth of Niceness for Promotion:

  “Niceness has not gotten women a promotion. Niceness has got a woman way more work with no title upgrade and no salary increase.”
  — Jen Fry (47:58)

• On Worthiness and Boundaries:

  “You are worth learning how to handle people, pushing back and being habitual line steppers. You are worth just saying no.”
  — Jen Fry (54:08)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:06] — Jen’s reflections on early ADHD traits and self-diagnosis
• [05:39] — Sport geography as a field; ADHD and patchwork careers
• [09:04] — Beginning in public speaking; building skills vs. seeking money
• [12:46] — Setting professional rates; learning market value
• [16:56] — Addressing imposter syndrome and charging what you’re worth
• [18:46] — The role of resentment in people-pleasing and boundary violation
• [20:16] — Why ADHDers struggle to set boundaries and say no
• [21:28] — The pressure and escalation of saying no to family
• [27:26] — Saying no to your own excitement and time blindness
• [43:03] — The crucial difference between kindness and niceness
• [47:58] — Debunking the myth that niceness advances women professionally
• [54:08] — Affirmation that women are worth setting boundaries for–even if it’s hard
• [55:03] — Jen on her upcoming books and the ongoing ADHD journey

Final Thoughts

This episode is both practical and affirming for listeners—especially women with ADHD—who have felt stuck in cycles of over-commitment, people-pleasing, and burnout. Jen Fry provides tough-love wisdom and permission to set boundaries, assert self-worth, and stop equating “niceness” with value. There’s consistent acknowledgment that while boundary-setting is hard, “you are worth it”—and with practice, it gets easier. The episode balances laughter, empathy, and actionable strategies, making it invaluable for anyone striving to live more authentically with ADHD.

Find Jen Fry:

• jenfreytalks.com
• I Said No: How to Have Boundaries and Backbone While Not Being a Jerk (links in show notes)

Further Reading:

• [Forbes article on the Power of Likability] (as referenced in the episode)