Podcast Summary: Women & ADHD
Episode 195 – Natalie Baker: Can Neurofeedback Help Treat ADHD?
Host: Katy Weber
Guest: Natalie Baker, Licensed Psychotherapist, Certified Brain Health Coach, Buddhist Practitioner
Release Date: February 3, 2025
Episode Overview
In this enlightening episode, Katy Weber explores the potential of neurofeedback as a therapy for ADHD with Natalie Baker. Natalie, an experienced psychotherapist and brain health coach, shares insights from her clinical practice integrating neurofeedback alongside traditional and meditative approaches. The conversation unpacks how neurofeedback works, its applications in ADHD (particularly for women diagnosed in adulthood), effects on emotional regulation, family dynamics, costs, and practical considerations.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Natalie's Path to Neurofeedback and ADHD-Adjacent Experiences
- Natalie shares her own “brain fog” journey related to hormonal changes in perimenopause in her 50s, initially questioning whether she had ADHD (06:14).
- “It took about four years for me to figure out that it was my testosterone levels plummeting that were leading to this… I didn’t know about testosterone in women and what that does to cognitive functioning.” — Natalie Baker (07:09)
- This personal curiosity dovetailed with her clinical work, where she observed neurofeedback benefits, especially in clients with trauma, anxiety, and ADHD.
ADHD Diagnoses & Life Stages in Women
- Katy highlights the common experience of women being diagnosed (or questioning ADHD) in perimenopause, as cumulative cognitive, executive function, and emotional symptoms reach a tipping point.
- “You get to this time in your life… you start to really uncover a lot of these issues around… cognitive decline and working memory and executive functioning.” — Katy Weber (08:09)
What is Neurofeedback? How Does It Work?
- Natalie draws a clear distinction between traditional biofeedback and neurofeedback.
- Neurofeedback = Feedback to the brain based on monitoring electrical activity (brain waves) via EEG sensors.
- “As computers got to be the speed of the human brain, you could create a more and more sophisticated neurofeedback system that can give real-time feedback.”— Natalie Baker (14:40)
- Two main types:
- First Generation (“protocol”): Brain mapping, in-office customization.
- Latest Generation (“fully automated”): Home use, millisecond-by-millisecond monitoring for maladaptive states using auditory feedback.
- “It interrupts music that you’re listening to… cues that automatic functioning brain, pay attention to yourself.” — Natalie Baker (16:32)
- The target: get “stuck” automatic patterns (rooted in the limbic system's fight/flight/freeze response) to re-align with the present moment and adapt more appropriately.
Comparison to Medication and Holistic Approaches
- Both neurofeedback and ADHD medication seek to scaffold the brain toward better focus and regulation.
- Medication is “like scaffolding… but what happens when you take that scaffolding away, has the brain learned?” — Natalie Baker (25:12)
- Natalie stresses the need for a holistic, multi-pronged approach instead of searching for a sole intervention.
- “…We are all trained to think in terms of diagnosis, one intervention that’s going to be the thing… [But] the brain is a dynamic system. We are dynamic beings.” — Natalie Baker (26:10)
How Does a Session Actually Work?
- Sessions are generally 33 minutes, can be done at home, with EEG sensors and audio-visual feedback.
- Neurofeedback isn’t about performing tasks during sessions; rather, the brain gets feedback about all its activity, including maladaptive patterns, even in a calm environment.
- “The brain is still training because it is still doing hundreds of actions per second,” — Natalie Baker (30:15)
- Effective for both classic ADHD symptoms and co-occurring conditions (anxiety, trauma, head injuries).
Emotional Dysregulation, Trauma, and the Feedback Loop
- Natalie describes emotional dysregulation as a stuck survival response (hyperarousal or hypoarousal) rather than a character flaw.
- “That’s not who we are, that’s not our intelligence, that’s us being stuck in a pattern.” — Natalie Baker (33:09)
- Interventions should aim to interrupt the mind-emotion feedback loop, reminding oneself that not all emotions are literal “truth.”
Gendered & Developmental Considerations
- Women often experience “mental spinning” and internalized anxiety over externalized hyperactivity.
- “I liken it to like a snow globe… you shake it up and try to look at the image, you can’t see anything.” — Natalie Baker (43:38)
- Natalie observes women discovering undiagnosed ADHD when neurofeedback improves their functioning (“I realized I have ADHD. I thought that was just me and how I am in the world.” — Client story, 45:14)
- Children respond especially well (and quickly) to neurofeedback due to neuroplasticity and less entrenched self-talk.
Neurofeedback’s Role in Families & Relationships
- Performing neurofeedback as a family leads to system-wide benefits—less reactive communication and more regulated, thoughtful interactions.
- “I watch over and over again families being able to shift from reactive communication to responsive communication… There’s this very organic change that can happen.” — Natalie Baker (51:12)
- Natalie stresses it’s “an organ problem, not a me problem,” promoting compassion and teamwork vs. blame or shame.
Practical & Logistical Information
- Session Frequency: At home, 2–3x per week is typical, but daily use is fine (especially for initial months); session = 33 min.
- Duration: Kids often benefit from a 3-month foundation; adults with complex issues might need 4–5 months.
- Cost: Home rental ~$500–700/month (for whole family), usually not covered by insurance. Some in-office options are partially covered.
- Eligibility: No minimum age; can be used along with ADHD medication.
- Tune-ups: Some do additional sessions during life stressors or as “optimization” similar to gym memberships.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “The brain is the new frontier…when you go to see providers, they don’t necessarily understand the brain or what’s going to be best for your brain… it was basically the equivalent of the earth is flat.”
— Natalie Baker (12:46) - “With neurofeedback, you’re not trying to make your brain less anxious. It just does that because it’s starting to function better… And so the aha and the relief and the reestablishing of one’s good sense of self, that can happen.”
— Natalie Baker (45:12) - “It’s an organ problem, not a me problem…let yourself think of it as like an organ problem as opposed to a me problem.”
— Natalie Baker (41:58) - “There's, you know, there's no such thing as just one [ADHD] source… There’s like little traumas or even unfortunately big traumas that can happen throughout life. And growing up as a girl, there’s all sorts of messaging that produces a stress response. And so we should just assume that that’s part of what’s in the mix.”
— Natalie Baker (44:09) - “I realized I have ADHD. I thought that was just me and how I am in the world.”
— Illustrative client story (46:25) - “Our self-talk can become an obstacle to the neurofeedback training because we can re-arouse a stress response through what we say to ourselves throughout the day.”
— Natalie Baker (56:51)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- Natalie's personal brain fog journey & hormones: 06:14–08:09
- Women, perimenopause, & late ADHD diagnosis: 08:09–10:16
- Introduction to neurofeedback & brainwaves: 10:16–14:40
- Technical/process explanation: 14:40–24:57
- Comparison to medication, need for holistic approach: 24:57–27:33
- Deep dive: what happens during a session & how brain learns: 28:35–33:09
- Emotional dysregulation, trauma, gendered experiences: 33:09–47:53
- Role in families and couples: 48:50–52:57
- Children, self-esteem, and brain plasticity: 55:39–60:01
- Practical info: frequency, age, cost, insurance: 61:32–65:03
Additional Resources & Contact
- Neurofeedback Training Company: neurofeedbacktraining.com
- Exclusive code for listeners: ADHD75 for $75 off a home rental
- Natalie Baker’s Contact: natalie@neurofeedbacktraining.com
- YouTube Channel: Instructional videos on neurofeedback (link in show notes)
Conclusion
This episode provides a comprehensive, accessible overview of how neurofeedback works, what distinguishes it from other interventions, and why Natalie Baker believes it’s a promising tool—especially for women diagnosed with ADHD later in life. Listeners gain both practical information and compassionate validation for their experiences, with the reassuring message that “it’s an organ problem, not a me problem.” The interplay between cutting-edge science, personal and clinical experiences, and broader life context makes this conversation invaluable for anyone curious about non-pharmacological approaches to ADHD.